Leroy Seafood Grp Ord

Good morning, everyone. I would like to welcome you to Lærer CIFI Group's first material presentation for 2024. My name is Henning Belstad, I am the chairman of Lærer CIFI Group, and with me, as usual, is Kjur Malm, who is the CFO. It's nice to come to Oslo with nice weather and a nice summer atmosphere. We have that in Bergen as well, so just to take a step over that. But it's incredibly good to come to Oslo and feel the nice weather. I hope everyone has had a good lunch, and then we'll go through the quarter presentation. First I will go through some highlights from the quarter, then Kjur will take us through the economic key figures, and then I will come back and talk a little about Outlook and how things look in the future. Our goal is to create the world's most effective and sustainable food supply chain. We are working on this continuously. We see that in parts of our supply chain, there are good improvements, step by step, that we are taking out. We continue with this focus, and our goal is to create the world's most effective and sustainable food chain. Good morning everyone. Then I would like to welcome you to Læresifjordrupp's first presentation for 2024. My name is Henning Belstad, head of the Læresifjordrupp group, and with me as usual is Kjur Malm, who is the CFO. It's nice to come to Oslo with nice weather and a nice summer atmosphere. We have that in Bergen as well, so just a little bit of that. But it's incredibly good to come to Oslo and feel the nice weather. I hope everyone has had a good lunch, and then we will go through the quarter presentation. First I will go through some highlights from the quarter, then Kjur will take us through the economic key figures, and then I will come back and talk a little about Outlook and how things look in the future. Our goal is to create the world's most effective and sustainable value chain for seafood. We are working on this continuously. We see that in parts of our value chain, there are good improvements, step by step, that we are taking out. We continue to focus on creating the world's most effective and sustainable value chain. Then we have the first quarter, a quarter where we had an EBIT total of 842 million against 989 million, the corresponding quarter last year. It has been a quarter with surprisingly good biological performance. It has been a quarter with, in all regions, very low sea temperatures. We see significant improvements in Scottish SIFAR, our activity in Scotland. We will get back to this year eventually, but significant improvements there. And we also see that we have a good quarter in VAP sales and distribution. A relatively good income in the whitefish segment, but there we also have some challenges in relation to reduced quotas, which we also want to get back to. We have reduced the target for 2025 by 5,000 tons. The main reason for this is reduced license capacity due to traffic lights in the southern region. The board has proposed an exchange rate of 2.5 kroner per share. As everyone knows, we report in three segments. We are going to go through the use of whitefish and VAP sales and distribution. In terms of use, the underlying has been a very good quarter. Good biology. We are probably affected by low sea temperatures, but that can also have positive effects. Vi jobber med implementering av ny teknologi i havbruk som fortsatt går veldig bra. Vi ser, specielt på dypdrift, at det fortsatt ingen avlysninger på de lokalitetene som vi har dette. It has been a low volume quarter, 26,000 tons. It also affects cost per kilo. As usual, there are high prices in this quarter, but we, like several others, have been affected by some declines, especially in the region in the middle of our part. Lerøy Aurora is a very strong quarter. Over time, it has delivered very strong underlying biological performance, good survival, good quality, I also have an average weight in this quarter, which is where we want to be. We want to be between 4.5 and 5 kg on average on fishing. 4.6 kg in the first quarter versus 3.7 kg in the second quarter. The first quarter of last year, and a slaughter volume of about 6,000 tons. We have an EBIT per kilo of 44 kroner, which is very good. And we see that we are gradually making it better and better, and after a while we have also raised the average weight, and we want to have good average weights for what we slaughter in the future. The cost level is expected to be slightly higher than it was in 2023. Summa summarum for Lerøy Råå is a very, very good performance. Lerøy Råå is listening at home, and we still have improvement potential there. A really happy result in this report, and it also looks very positive for the rest of the year. If we look at Læremidt, we have brought out a lot of fish. We entered the year with a high biomass, more than what we did last year. And we have almost 14,000 tons versus 8,600 tons at the same time last year. An average weight of 4.1. We have taken out some fish a little early, which has affected this. Otherwise, we have good average weight on the fish we have in the sea and fish we will slaughter in the future. And also here is a good underlying biological production in the sea. Cost for 2024 is expected to be slightly above what it was in 2023. Here we have had an EBIT per kilo of 31 kroner, which is part of what we had in the first quarter last year. For my knowledge, this is where we have had the greatest impact of downgrading of fish. But we have handled it in a good way. We have large capacities in the factory we have at Justenøya. With five fully automated filet lines integrated. It has been good to have in this quarter. For your knowledge, meat troll. A lot of positive things are happening in Lære Kjøttroll, and we are very happy to see that. The work is very structured, targeted with improvement work, and even though the results in this quarter are not the highest, around 10 kroner in EBIT per kilo, last fall a low volume of 6,700 tons, Low average weight on what we have slaughtered. Now it is affected by the end of last year with pearl snot and took out some fish right at the beginning of the quarter. Which has been negatively affected from that. Otherwise we have taken out, we have built biomass, taken out as little fish as possible through the quarter. We have very good biology. We see good results on all parameters. On survival, on growth, and not least a very large reduction in the number of treatments, which is often very demanding in this region. It is of course negative for us that we again in this region have had a decline. It affects the whole region. It is demanding for those who operate with industry and processing. Of course, to get reduced capacity is something we ... Of course, we should avoid and work to turn the situation around and ensure that we do not have such a downturn in the future. But we feel that in general in the region it works very well. There are major improvements in many companies. Yes, so it's a bit boring. Low average weights in this quarter. We have significantly higher average weights on the fish we slaughter now and in the future. So right now it looks very positive for Lerøy Kjøttroll. And as I said, it works very well. We see radical improvements on the main drivers, not least on what goes on in fish health. So that's exciting. In North Scotland, it is a bit the same. A fantastic new operation. We have had two very demanding years in Scotland. We can see that in the operating EBIT per kilo, where Q2 is down to minus 23 kroner. And now we have an EBIT of 19 kroner per kilo. We have taken out 7300 tons. And we have good biology, good growth, good average weight on what will be slaughtered in the future. And there we hold on to the guidance we have on 37 kroner. 37,000 tons. I am very happy that the organizations have managed to turn this activity around and are on their way back to where they have been before. When it comes to guiding, we maintain guiding for 2024 at 175,000 tons. The downside is that we have extremely low temperatures. The first four months, but at the same time it is a period with low results, so we have faith that we will get good pressure in the future with rising temperatures. And as I said, it works very well. There are surprisingly very good performance in Lerøy and Råå. But when it comes to Lerøy Midt and Lerøy Kjøttråd, this is absolutely in for. As mentioned, we have revised the target for 2025 to 200,000 tons, and our share of Scottish Seafarms for 2024 is 18,500 tons. And for the years after 2024, 2025 and 2026, we also have enormous potential to have a significantly higher volume with the investments we have made in recent years. So yes, we look positively at what is to come. Whitefish is the quarter. We have a total revenue of 187 million kroner. Of course, we are affected in 2024 by lower rates. Torsk is down to 34 and Huset is down to 43. Of course, this affects the remaining volume that we have remaining this year. A quarter with an extreme price, at least as long as we have been in this, we have not seen such prices as we have seen in the first quarter. Approximately 60 kroner per kilo. The house is also going up, but it has probably been higher before. And a lot of our focus will be to work with other species, reindeers, eagles, and not least to have a strong focus on ourselves, which we have had all the way, but there are also a good number of possibilities. But an OK quarter in terms of results, but it will be a demanding future. This will also affect our industry activity. For Q1, we fished 24,000 tons against 25,000 tons in the previous quarter. When we look at VAP sales and distribution, a lot of positive things happen there. Over time, we have invested significantly in our downstream activities. We have had some demanding years behind us. A lot of unpredictability with Covid in a few years. And when that was over, we have also been... Yes, with basic interest tax created extra unpredictability, but now we have a better predictability than we have had in the last 3-4 years. It works very well. We have a quarter that we are reasonably satisfied with. We see a positive development from quarter to quarter, and when you look at the rolling 12 months, But we still have a great potential to take out of this segment here, and not least in the downstream activities, like the last investments that were made a couple of years ago. But we see big, good operational improvements. Very good utilization. Vi har en veldig stor bearbeidingskapacitet i Norge som vi har utnyttet på en god måte. Vi har alltid bearbeidet mye varer. We will do that for the future as well. This has been a long-term strategy. The capacities we have in all regions and a large part of what we sell in the markets is processed goods. A large part of what goes into the next LED value chain out there is processed goods. These are pre-rig and fillets, which are our main raw material in our activities out there. So, a good quarter for water sales and distribution. So now, Kyr, you can tell us about the economic news.

Yes, now Henning has gone through the main points. In short, we have had good growth in redfish, trout and salmon this quarter. It has been very cold, but in light of the temperature, the growth is good. Relatively to biomass, we have had the best growth in many years, so that is positive. And then we have some degradations, and we have succeeded in creating value on that fish. In relation to this quarter, the production in the sea will be slaughtered later, so it will be visible later in relation to average weights, in relation to volume and in relation to cost. In relation to the effect of creating value on the fish, it is visible in the downstream segment this quarter. On whitefish, the quota for the year is much lower than it was last year. And it's a bit about when you catch it. In the cow we have good catch and a good quarter, but we have a significantly lower quota for the rest of the year. This sums up the numbers for this quarter. The main value drivers are shown at the bottom. If we look at the volume of salmon and trout slaughtered, it is 80% lower than last year. This is due to the fact that we in some regions took out a low biomass this year. The low biomass and low slag volume also affects the cost in the QN. If we look at the margin, it is a little down through the value chain. In this, the price achievement for the harvester content is the same as last year. The cost is a little higher, and we have managed to regain more value downstream. Therefore, the margin through the value chain is marginally down from last year. On whitefish, we have been able to see the fish in the catch volumes. The magic is also a little lower. In summary, we sum this up to an operational success rate of 15%. Under review, the income from associated companies, such as Henning Venom and Scotti Sifans, is better, but EPS is a total of 22%. In the balance sheet, there are many numbers, so I won't talk about them. One is what is shown here as tangible fixed assets, which are the investments we make. We have invested a lot of new technology in sea use, and we will come back with some data on how that works. We have also invested a lot in whitefish and in Båtsfjord, so we have just opened a fantastic new whitefish factory. From other points of view, Biological asset at cost is our fish. It looks a lot more expensive than it did last year. This is due to the fact that we have 5,000 tons more fish standing in the exit of the well than we had last year. So we have a much better input on Q2 than what we had in the previous period. And the fish is on average 15% bigger than it was last year. So that's the main driver of the cost. And it's also the main driver, when we look at the next side, at labor capital, that we have a good deal of labor capital binding this quarter. As for the rest of the labor capital, storage and receivability, there are no major changes in practice. This shows the change in cash, which is estimated to be a change in the net income of Berni Hell, based on EBITDA. We see that we have a construction of labor capital, where biomass is the major driver. We have invested, and what we have invested in, we will come back to in the next slide. The interest rate is a bit higher, so we know what it has been, and we pay, of course, tax. We will come back to that later. But the net interest rate in Bernhjelm is about 5.5 billion, and we think we have a strong and good balance. A little more about CapEx. The darkest part of this graph is an estimate of the balance of CapEx. It is a bit affected by the decline in Norwegian kroner. Everything we buy is something that is made in Norway, and quite a lot, if I may say so, but also a part that is abroad. So that makes all current investments a lot more expensive than they were. Then we look at what we invested in last year, and that is whitefish factories in particular, and new technology. And in the year we are in now, we expect a balance of capex of about 1 billion. about 1.5 billion in new seed technologies, which we will talk more about later, and we also invest in smelters for better smelter quality. Our best estimate for today is that we will invest about 1.8 billion. This issue of value creation is much debated, and some say that we as a business contribute too little to society. And we can actually just contribute with facts. So this slide is an attempt to contribute with facts in this discussion. What the graph or picture to the left shows is a well-known country. And here you see in two different colors dots that show where we are and where our suppliers are in Norway. And last year we bought goods and services in Norway for about 20 billion kroner. We did that from almost 5,500 different suppliers, and they operate in 250 municipalities in Norway. And we have our own staff in 60 municipalities in Norway. So this shows very clearly that we have a large activity. Our own activity is primarily along the coast, even though I see that we also have two units here in Oslo. We buy goods and services from all over the country. And we also see how important the food is for the country, but also especially for the coastline. This activity creates values. This is evident in the number of employees. We have almost 4,000 employees in Norway. The indirect impact of this is 6,000 employees. The impact of this is about 10,000 people in Norway. In another way of measuring this with value creation, the effect of our own activity estimates 7 billion in Norway, and indirect effects through suppliers of 7 billion. So this is about 14.5 billion in value creation, where now it is taxes. So through our activity and employees, we contribute with about 2 billion in taxes in 2014. Dette bildet synliggjør jo egentlig bare med fakta at vi har en betydelig aktivitet. Den påvirker hele Norge. Det synliggjør også at for eksempel trafiklyssystemet som Henning var innom, så er det sånn at denne aktiviteten er selvfølgelig avhengig av det vi producerer. Så når man reduserer kapacitetene, om det er gjennom kvotemelding til trådflåten eller gjennom trafiklyssystem, så påvirker det selvsagt vår aktivitet og vår mulighet til å drive verdiskapning. I give the floor back to you, Henning.

Yes, then we will talk a little about expectations and what will come. So, we have, as I said, left behind us a surprisingly good quarter, biologically. We are working Targeted. And we are keeping to these goals. In relation to a turnover in 2030 of 50 million, we are interested in that when it comes to the reduction of On emissions, we are also on track on that. If we look at volume, we are with the work we have started, and the improvements we are gradually making, we have that direction. It should be within. Waste sales and distribution. It is also demanding to achieve 1.2 billion in the result. We had 643 last year. Expecting that we will see significant steps when we have left 2024, and we believe that the result is within. And then it is clear that we must get all of our regions up in terms of becoming the best agricultural company in terms of revenue per kilo. If we get everything we have said we should get, then we will be in for it. And we also see that in the northern region that we are starting to reach the level we should be. And of course, there is a long way to go in Lerøy Kjøtroll. Let's see if I can get rid of a few things here. I hope it doesn't break down. So we are going to report on this, where we are and on the way. Now 2025 is approaching, so it is good to talk about goals far ahead, but when they start to approach, it is a big challenge for us as a company and all our employees to work structured and tailored to go in this direction. And I think we absolutely are. A little about the emissions. Målrettet MED has got it into daily operation through control work. We work well with what goes into fish feed, transport and aircraft. but also work with boat transport directly from our coast and down towards Europe. We will come back to that later. And then there is alternative fuel. A reduction from 2019 to 2023 of 15.5%. As I have said a couple of times, reduced quotas are necessary for us, for Lerøy Seafood and Lerøy Norges Seafood. We see a decline from 28,000 tonnes to 13,500 tonnes from 2021. Here, the threshold conditions have made it necessary for us. But this is something that swings. It goes up and down. And then we'll see. There are things that indicate that it will go down a little in 2025. But I have expectations that there will be an increase in the quotas thereafter. We look at ... We will double the results from 2023 to 2025. And then we have 2022 and 2023, which we have been a little below what we expect in this segment. And as I said, we are working in that direction. I think this should be achievable. Of course, a lot is being done to make use of our factories even better than what we do in this segment. We also have a number of factories that have been particularly demanding in recent years. We see the potential for improvement in some of the units at more than 100 million. that we are going to take out in the future. And if we look at long-term actions, it is the use of the whole fish that is very central. This with sustainable logistics and effective logistics solutions, and of course a higher level of processing and less shipping, that is, more processed goods. then it is to increase our value chain's flexibility to take turns in terms of quality, in terms of size and our ability to use to use the flexibility for better price achievement. And then there is the implementation of Ladoway in that part of the value chain that we are working on, and we see that it gives results to the units that have worked on this over time. We are optimists in the field of WAP sales and distribution, and it works well, structured, and we have great faith that we will take out the potential. This is just an example of how to exploit 100% of the fish. As I have been told, we are the first company to be able to exploit salmon blood in a good way. This has been researched in Lerøy Rora. Our factory was in Kjærvøy for seven years. Today, we started producing iron tablets from salmon blood. This gives enormous opportunities for the future, and it shows that we are working very well to exploit 100% of our fish. 2% of the fish is blood, and if we have 200,000 tons, we have 4,000 tons of blood that we can take care of in a good way. to do things and work with innovations that we have not seen before. So incredibly interesting. And we have started selling new brain tablets now in this quarter that we are in. So incredibly exciting and shows that we have an innovation, no, innovation competence in the company and we work long-term and targeted with new innovations. Then there is a goal in terms of volume, and as I said, we work in three main areas on this, platform, small production and new technology in the sea. This is something we have been working on for many, many years, so it is not something we have found in the past. Now this work is well underway. We will try to give updates from quarter to quarter. And a little repetition of what we showed last time, where we are in relation to The impact of the changes we have made on genetics, how it will affect the results of the fish we slaughter. Responsible for rye and smelt. And then we see that we are beginning to see improvements. in underlying performance in sea use. And we also see it in some of the fish we take out already now in the first half year. And then we will see more as we go through the year. And in 2025 we are close to taking out much of that potential. Ja, det er utrolig spennende det vi jobber med her. Vi har, som jeg har nevnt tidligere også, 2023 tror aldri vi har lært så mye som vi gjorde det året der. These improvements are what we measure all the time. These are the underlying improvements that we have in the entire value chain. Are we going to create the world's most efficient and sustainable value chain? If we look at this quarter that we have put behind us, compared to the corresponding quarter in the last five years, we have a net growth of 9% better. It's a big improvement. It's a fact. It's a reality. In terms of mortality, it is reduced by 24% in the first quarter. There is no guarantee that it will be the same in the future, but that is what we have delivered in the first quarter. It's incredibly exciting to see. We have significantly lower number of treatments, reduced by 56%. And to stop treating the fish is... Yes, a strong focus from the organization and is incredibly important for fish health and to let the fish be at ease. Yes, there have been some measures in relation to reducing the damage to the fish. The fact that we treat less will also affect that we get less damage, i.e. less wear on the skin of the fish. Ja, en stor andel av fiskemålet er også vaksinert med vaksine inn i neste vinter. Så vi forventar også at vi vil se betydelige forbedringar på det. When it comes to new technology, we take it quarter by quarter. We follow the roadmap that we have. We see very positive results from this, in depth, as I said. Zero treatment. We put out the first location in July. And we are constantly putting out new locations in Deep Drift, and everything indicates that this is the right way for us to go in selected locations, in addition to what we do at Semilocket. We are very positive. Nothing has changed. We will continue to go in this direction. By the beginning of April, we will have 20% of our fish, i.e. the number of fish in new technology. And by the beginning of this year, we will be up to 30-35% by the beginning of 2020. So we are following this plan. And we still see good results from this. And of course, we are entering a very exciting time now. Now the temperature is rising. It will be more demanding with light. And it will be exciting to see, through the summer, if this will give even better results compared to what we usually do. On a generational level, compared to what we do with new technology and what is common, we have reduced the treatment frequency by 82%. So significant changes in using new technology. Looking at the different segments, a positive start to 2024. Yes, 2023 wasn't our best year, but a good start into 2024. The annual contract share will be around 25%. We expect significant improvements due to the adjustments that have been made and the small quality of the new technology. And what we do in relation to the implementation of Leroway in the entire marine use segment. And we are well on the way there now. On whitefish, a challenging situation in terms of quotas. Torsk down 34% this year, Hyse down 43%. And the outlook for 2025 is that there may be another reduction. If we look at VAP sales and distribution, we see increased demand for fully integrated value chains. Of course, this ensures stability, quality and traceability of the products for our customers. We feel a lot of progress from strategic customers around in all central markets for salmon. We are also working to increase our market share in the best paying markets. We have big variations in the units out there, but we are gradually taking out the potential we have in relation to the capacities that are built up to now. Yes, so that was actually what we had. So now we have some time for questions. So if Hans can go around with the microphone.

There are also opportunities to ask questions on the web. That's why I have the phone. But we prioritize those who are local first. Should everyone get an answer?

Hi, Alexander Aukne from DME Markets. You're on Wildcatch, with reduced quotas. Do you think there are opportunities to see any changes in the duties you have as a consequence of that?

I think it's a big and difficult question. I think it's obvious that the activity obligations we have are dependent on volume. So if there is no volume of activity, it's difficult to have large activity. So it's a combination of quota size and how much activity is possible to have. If there are possibilities to make changes to it, I don't dare to speculate. But it's important for us to highlight, also as shown in this slide, Dette treffer jo litt av denne kvotemeldingen som er kommet ut. I den kvotemeldingen, det som i praksis skjer, er jo at man omfordeler kvote fra tålflotten til kystflotten. Når man leser avisen, så får man jo inntrykk av at kystflotten er den store taparen. Men hvis man ser på tallene, så er det åpenbart feil. Det er en omfordeling fra tålflotten til kystflotten. Det gjør jo at, og så vet vi, og det kan vi også ha veldig gode fakta på, at på en måte antall... Workplaces created per quota unit is greater in our value chain than in others. We have both the troll fleet and there is a symbiosis with the land industry. So the logic in moving in relation to activities from our activities to the coast fleet is more difficult to understand. But if that means that we will have fewer obligations, we have no basis to say today. But it will be a dependency, so to speak. Vi må ha kvoter vi må ha no aktivitet på for å kunne ha aktivitetsplikt.

Et annet spørsmål rundt produksjonsområdet 3 og 4. Det er jo mye snakk om en ny teknologiordning som skal komme. Hva er deres drømmescenario? Hva skal til i regionen for at man kan normalisere de biologiske kopiene?

The dream scenario is of course that the measures we have taken in relation to the use of new technologies in this region, primarily in the middle of Norway and in Søp, that of course we solve the challenges we face. we have had and so far have. Primarily in relation to LUS, the dream scenario is that we will be able to grow in that region. As long as we can show good results with the use of that type of technology. And that is what lies in this flexible order that is being pushed to be implemented in the future. It is good that we have started this with our own free will, but it is clear that we hope and believe that this will also contribute to that we will get back the possibility of growth in that region on capacity.

And one short additional point. What is important for us, as Henning says, is that we have already made large investments. So it is important for us that they are taken with us. That is the environmental technology investments we have made. So it is important for us that there must not be anything new. If we have already made investments that work, then they should be included in our system.

Martin Karlan, ABG Sundal Collier. You mentioned that there has been an improvement in the distribution of VAP sales and quarter to quarter. Is that something you can look at in Q2, or have there been any early Easter effects, downclassing of fish and upclassing of that again in Q1, so that you can get a kind of reversal in Q2?

Det som står i rapporten er at vi forventer litt lavere i Q2 enn i Q1. Så spørsmålet er hvorfor det? Det handler jo blant annet om at vi forventer at mengden eget fisk blir lavere. Så det som vi har verdiskap på, og det er ikke hele forklaringen, men vi har lykkes godt i å verdiskape på den fisken i Q1.

And on one question, are there any nuances in either regions or segments that you can say anything about? There has been a little focus on the fact that the USA has been a little weaker, but how does it look in Europe, for example, for your part?

I would say that Europe is probably more stable. Yes, it has been a... A little more demanding in the US. The US has had a fantastic development in recent years. But it is not the most important market for us, but it is of course an important market in the long run, which we are also working with. If we look at the Asian markets, they are very good. There is perhaps a little more balance in relation to the different regions in Asia. China is not exactly where they were half a year back in time. But of course, in the fresh fish markets abroad, it is a very good question. They take away the prices. We have been increasing the price levels for so many years.

What about food service and retail in Europe, for example?

No, there are no major variations. For our part, when the weather is fine in Oslo, we have a lot of activity in Oslo in relation to food service or restaurant segment. So now it's completely off. Now everyone is going out to the restaurant. And that also gives us increased activity. And that's how it is. So we are affected by that. And we see that in the Netherlands it would have been like that on food service. The weather is a bit worse and colder than it has normally been, and that affects our activities. So in the spring it is important that we have a nice weather so that everyone can go out to restaurants and eat and enjoy themselves.

Christian, can you talk a little bit about what you expect in 2025, what you expect from small growth, which will be put out next year, and small yield, I assume?

I can say, we have, we are looking at... In 2023, about 50 million will be mined, and that is in the same area. So what is in a lot of our growth this year, and what will be next year, is to bear a small yield. And it is important to bear in mind that 2023 has been a very bad year for us in a historical sense. The small yield will then be bearable through lower mortality, which is an important factor, and we have very good trends there now. And then we are going to increase the slaughter weights. We see some trends in the Q1, and we expect that to be the picture this year. So the big change in 2025 is about to happen.

And with this energy technology that we have now, has it helped with pearl snoring and things like that?

Here it is easy to... I think it's right to say that with pearl snow, there are big elements of flux and non-flux. So it's very difficult to be too tough in the comments. But what we see is that the places we've had sinkable, it has gone much better than those around that have not been sinkable. So it's possible to think that it has something to say. So it's tempting to say yes, it has an effect. But I also think it's fair to say that there is little data to be completely sure of.

Okay.