Mowi Asa

To the salmon lover, you crave more than just food. You crave the taste of excellence, savoring the joy of something truly special. At Mowi, we do too. From the purest waters of Norway to the shores of Scotland, Ireland, Chile, and beyond, we share a mutual love, one filled with rich flavor, beautiful texture, and deep tradition. That's why we pour our hearts into the salmon you place on your tables. You deserve only the finest salmon. You deserve Moe. Salmon is good. Moe is goodness.

Good morning, everyone, both in the room and online. And thank you very much for joining us this morning in connection with the release and presentation of Mowi's first results of 2025. My name is Ivan Windheim. I'm the CEO of Mowi. And together with our CFO, Christian Ellingson, I will take you through the numbers and the fundamentals this morning. And to the best of my and our ability, add a few appropriate comments to them. And after presentation, our IRO, Kim Dersvik, will routinely host our Q&A session. For those of you who are following the presentation online, you can submit your questions or comments in advance, or as we go along, by email. Please refer to our website at movi.com for the necessary details. Disclaimer, I think we leave for self-study, so with the pleasantries, practicalities, and the disclaimer out of the way, I think we are ready for the highlights of the Q water. And to begin with, and on a general note, I think it's fair to say that the first quarter was another strong quarter for MoE, both operationally and biologically, with seasonally record high growth in the sea and improved biological metrics across the board, to mention a few. So once again, a big thank you to all of my colleagues who have made that happen. It's, of course, much, much appreciated. And this translated into, as the second bullet point there reads, an operational profit of 240 million euro in the quarter, an operational revenue of 1.36 billion euro. 108,000 tons harvest volumes, which is up by as much as 12% year over year, partly with the help of good environmental conditions, both in the northern and southern hemisphere. which seems to have been mirrored across the industry this time around, as industry supply growth was up by a hefty 13% year-over-year in the quarter in Europe and 8% globally. And if you rewind the time, our numbers we haven't seen since the first quarter of 2021, and we stand in stark contrast to the first quarter last year, when industry supply was down by 4% year-over-year. following biological issues in Norway, in large part due to a winter-sore vaccine that had lost efficacy, but which seems now to have been resolved. This, of course, impacted prices in the quarter, which I think is fair to say were lower than our expectations. But on a positive note, however, our price realization is stable year over year, indicating a good underlying demand for our products. Furthermore, our realized blended farming costs, i.e. weighted production costs for seven production countries, was 5.89 euro per kilo in the first quarter and was that somewhat down compared with the first quarter last year, following the positive cost trend we have seen over the past few quarters and underpinning our expectation of a further decrease in the coming months on economies of scale. ref more harvest volumes and enhance more dilution of fixed cost. Carrying on, two other divisions, consumer products and feed, they both delivered another good quarter, I would say. And in terms of a strategic review of the feed division, it's well underway. And finally, as the last bullet point reads, our board of directors has decided to distribute a quarterly dividend of 1.70 NOK per share after the first quarter. I think that does it for the highlights of the quarter. Then we move on to our farming volume guidance. And as you can see from this chart, we maintain our farming volume guidance for this year of 530,000 tons, supported by a strong biology so far this year, and seasonally record high standing biomass in C. And if anything, there is upside risk to this guidance. Furthermore, next year, we expect to harvest 600,000 tons with Nova Sea on board. And finally, we reiterate our farming volume target of at least 650,000 tons in 2029. And this we will achieve through increased smolt stocking and by means of post-smolt. Because we have still unutilized license capacity in Norway, in several of the countries where we operate, and with post-smolt we can increase the productivity on licenses already in operation, which are to be set into operation. Samoa's idiosyncratic growth continues unabated after the rather quiet 2010s and is now surpassing that of the wider industry and are listed peers by a large margin, cementing our number one position in Atlantic salmon. Then from the grand scheme of things to more specifically about the first quarter and first key financial figures. Chris and I will go in depth on all these numbers later this morning, so as not to be too repetitive, we'll just touch briefly upon the most important ones now. And turnover profit, I think we skip as we have just been through them. So let's start with cash. Net interest bearing debt stood at 1.88 billion euro at the end of the quarter. And with Nova Sea on board, it would have been 2.46 billion euro and corresponding equity ratio of 46%, indicating a sustainable pro forma debt level. Having said that, and as we have said previously, we will revert with a new long-term debt target for Mowi post-closing of Nova Sea. Furthermore, underlying earnings per share was €0.29 in the quarter, whilst the annualized return on capital employed was 16%. And in terms of regional margins for the value chain, we will get back to all these numbers later this morning when we drill down into the different business entities. But first, the elephant in the room, prices. As already said, prices in the quarter were lower than our expectations due to seasonally record high industry supply, following very favorable environmental conditions both in the northern and southern hemisphere. And further on that note, tariff turmoil in our largest single market, the US, has not helped the situation either. And as for the latter, now the big question is how this will develop going forward. No one knows the answer to that question, of course, but if I may venture to make an attempt. The direct effects, we believe, will be rather limited, as we are, after all, talking about only a 9% weighted tariff on 20% of our market, which, all else being equal, is equivalent to a demand hit of 2% if we assume a price illicitity of 1%. So in isolation, that should be manageable. We have been through far worse before. In the pandemic, we lost half of our market overnight, for example. And in 2014, large parts of the industry lost access to then the very important Russian market in the aftermath of the invasion of Crimea. And that market is, for all practical purposes, a goner today. So then we believe there is more reason to be concerned about the potentially indirect effect of this if the world economy slows down or takes a major blow. Personally, I'm not too worried, as the summer normally fares well in challenging times. People need food also in rainy days, and it's particularly in situations like this Moe's integrated and diversified global value chain comes into its own as it enables us to tailor our trade more effectively than most of our peers. And finally, it doesn't hurt being cost-competitive either, which Christian will talk more about later this morning. But first, above the reference price, which is the standard we like to hold ourselves to internally and measure ourselves against. Positively impacted by a contract share of 28% in the quarter and contract prices slightly above the prevailing spot price in addition to good harvest weights and a high quality of our fish. Then it's time to drill down into our different business entities, and we start as usual with Mowi Norway, the locomotive of our business model. And if you take the numbers first, operation profit was 155 million euro for Mowi Norway in the quarter, whilst the margin was 2.51 euro per kilo, and harvest volume 62,000 tonnes. all of which are a result of improvements on all fronts in the quarter, as we can see from the chart there, apart from our price achievement, which is down year over year, left the second bar here on the chart. On strong operation performance, I would say, partly with the help of favourable environmental conditions along the Norwegian coastline. And this applies to all regions in the quarter in Norway, which may come across as a bit counterintuitive as region mid is well behind the others on this margin chart. The explanation is that region mid harvested very low volumes in the quarter and hence had very low dilution of fixed costs in addition to harvesting out high cost sites following issues with string jellyfish and gills last autumn. Because if you go behind the numbers, region mid was actually our best performing region in the first quarter, both in terms of cost to stock and in terms of growth in the sea. So consequently, we expect a lower realized production cost for region mid in the second quarter. Then our farming volume guidance for Norway. As we can see from this chart, we maintain our guidance for this year of 315,000 tonnes. And as we now see on board, we are on course for 400,000 tonnes in Norway. Then the last slide on MoviNorway, our sales contract portfolio. Contract share was 25% for MoviNorway in the first quarter and was a red spot on our guidance, and these contracts were neutral to our earnings. As for the second quarter, we expect our contract share to be stable, with relatively stable contract prices. Then it's time to drill down into our six other farming countries, and we start with Moe Scotland. Like Moe Norway, Moe Scotland leaves behind another strong quarter, I would say, with good biological results. This manifested itself in an operation profit of 32 million euro for Scottish operation in the first quarter, and a margin of 1.78 euro per kilo on 18,000 tons harvest volumes. Like MAUI Norway, MAUI Scotland can point to improvements on all fronts in the quarter, apart from price achievement, which is down year over year. Then overseas to Chile, Moe Chile posted an operation profit of 12 million euro in the second quarter, which is stable with the... I said second quarter, I meant first quarter, which is stable with the first quarter last year on a slightly lower margin of 88 euro cent per kilo and 14,000 tons harvest volumes, which is somewhat up compared with the first quarter last year. In a quarter, the better prices were offset by higher costs due to that we harvested out some high cost sites in Chile in the quarter. So consequently, we expect realized erosion costs for Mohoi-Chile to come down in the coming quarters. Then from north to Canada, more in Canada went from losing 2 million euro in the first quarter last year to make a profit of 4 million euro in this quarter thanks to better prices because harvest volumes are down year over year and cost is up. Otherwise, it's worth noting that Canada has come out as the winner so far in the tariff turmoil, with no tariffs on Canadian salmon into the US, versus 10% tariff on salmon of all other regions. Every cloud has a silver lining, they say, but it's still early days, so let's see if it stays like this. Which brings us to our two smallest farming entities, Mowi Island and Mowi Faroes. And if we take Mowi Island first, our Irish operation posted a modest operation profit of 2 million euro in the first quarter by means of a margin of 95 euro cent per kilo on 2,500 tons harvest volumes. Whilst Moby Faroes impressed with a margin of 2.75 euro per kilo and an operational profit of 12 million euro on 4,000 tonnes. And finally, biological metrics were once again stellar in the Faroes in the quarter, whilst they were more of a mixed bag in Ireland. Then our last farming entity this morning, Arctic fish, our Atlantic operation. Arctic fish broke even in the first quarter, which coincided sharply with the first quarter last year, when we made 10 million euro in operation profit in Iceland, due to both low prices and higher costs, because harvest volumes are relatively stable year over year. Prices are hard to do anything about in the short term. So consequently, our work to reduce costs to a sustainable level in Iceland continues unabated because neither we nor the industry are there today. So with that, I think we can conclude more with farming and move on to consumer products or downstream business. Consume products posted an operating profit of €33 million in the quarter, which is up from €24 million in the corresponding quarter last year, which I would say is a strong achievement as we had no help from upgrading this year, contrary to last year. On the other hand, lower spot prices were a helping hand for this part of the value chain. So in many ways, you can say this is some sort of a hedge for us. In terms of the market, we still see good demand for products, underpinned by stable prices year-over-year, notwithstanding the hefty supply growth of 13% year-over-year in the quarter in Europe and 8% globally. The last one out this morning, Moe Feed. The first quarter is a slow season for our feed operation, but all that entails. But just for that, I would say the first quarter was another strong quarter for Moe Feed, with seasonally record high volumes and a pace out of the starting blocks indicating new volume and earning records this year. And if you take the numbers, sold volumes were 112,000 tonnes in the quarter, which is up by an impressive 14,000 tonnes year-over-year, or 14%. Whilst operational EBITDA was €7 million in the quarter, versus €6 million in the comparable quarter last year. And finally, feed performance was evidently strong. And as we said earlier this morning, our strategic review of this division is well underway. And we will be working with more information in due course, but not today. It's too early in the process. So with that, Christian, the floor is all yours. You can take us through the financial figures and fundamentals. Thank you so far.

Thank you very much, Ivan. Good morning, everyone. Hope you're all doing well. As usual, we start with the overview of profit and loss. This shows a top line of 1.36 billion Euro, which is a record high level for Q1, and an increase from last year on strong volumes. Operational EBIT increased by approximately €14 million from last year, following lower costs and higher volumes. Achieved global prices were relatively stable. Earnings translated into an underlying earnings per share of €0.29. Return on capital employed was 16.3% and return on equity was 18.1%. And the difference between operational EBIT and financial EBIT was explained by the net fair value adjustment of biomass, which was negative this time around related to the price development. With regards to associated companies, this was mainly related to Nova-C. The operational result for Nova-C was 1.85 euro per kilo in Q1 on somewhat lower prices. We still expect competition clearance sometime in the second half, and from that point, Nova-C will be consolidated into the group figures. We then move on to the balance sheet. Moe's financial position is strong, with a covenant equity ratio of 51%. Performa covenant equity ratio, including the effects of the novice acquisition, would have been 49%. And then the ordinary equity ratio is listed here also on Performa basis, which would then be 46%. Total assets increased somewhat since Q1 2024, driven by fixed assets in addition to prepayments of tax. With regards to the cash flow, NIBD was slightly up during the quarter, as we see here. The cash contribution from EBITDA was partly offset by working capital tie up, mainly related to feed inventory. Cash outflows related to cutbacks, tax and financial items were reduced versus Q1 24. Net cash flow per share improved to €0.14 from €0.09 in Q1 2024. And with regards to NIBD, we will revert to an updated long-term NIBD target following closing of the NovaSea transaction. We maintain the guidance on the cash flow items listed here for the full year of 2025, so we leave the details here for self-study. And the same goes for the overview of our financing, which is unchanged from the Q4 presentation. Before we leave the financial section, we want to reiterate our commitment to cost focus and cost leadership. As shown in the graph above here, blended farming costs across our different farming regions has increased in recent years, driven by feed prices. On a positive note, feed prices decreased by approximately 8% during 2024, and we have expectations of continued decline. This will contribute to a reduction, as we see it, in the full cost for 2025 versus 2024. Cost is expected to be reduced in Q2, including also in our most important region, Norway. And then we expect cost to be further decreased in the second half of 2025. In addition to the feed price effect, we are expecting positive effects of our various cost measures. This includes operational improvements such as post-malt, MW4.0, yield, automation. And we have a good starting point, former position as the number one or number two performer in the various regions. We see that also from the graph below here. On a positive note, we see also that the three-year average shows that we are now number one also in Norway. At the end of the day, it's all about earnings and how much you earn on the licenses you have. And we find this slide here very interesting. Essentially, this slide encompasses both production efficiency, i.e. how much you get out of your licenses, and cost performance. Because over time, salmon farmers achieve more or less the salmon price. We are therefore very pleased to see that Farming Norway, our largest and most important farming country, there in Norway recorded the highest EBIT per standard license of NOK 31.2 million in 2024, ahead of all listed competitors. Even if you are just for FX, Norway is still number one. So this is a strong slide. When it comes to cost, feed cost is the number one cost item. Raw material market prices have improved for most input factors, including marine ingredients. The two most recent and showy wildcatch seasons in Peru in 24 were strong with regards to volumes and yield. And this has contributed to a favorable raw material price development. And the first and showy wild catch season this year started in April. This is now ongoing then. And with a quota of three million tons. This is the second highest quota during the last decade. So a positive outlook here. So much for financials, including cost. We then move on to market fundamentals in the quarter. In Q1, there was a solid supply growth from the salmon-producing regions of 8%. This was above guidance, as the biological improvements were even better than we assumed. In Norway, the volume growth was 13%, driven by an improved winter sore vaccine and higher temperatures. This has led to lower mortality, more individuals available for harvesting in the first quarter. Harvest growth in Norway is expected to be more moderate in the coming months. Also in the other regions, biological conditions and growth have improved. In Chile, harvest volumes increased by 4%, while biomass at the end of the quarter was up 14%. In Canada, volumes declined due to Canada West. Consumption was approximately 7,000 tons higher than supply, meaning that there was some inventory release in the quarter. Consumption growth was 5%, including inventory movements. And then with relatively stable global prices, this means that there was a good demand increase in the quarter, estimated to around 6%. And with regards to the various regions, we see that in EU plus UK, i.e. in Europe, consumption increased by 6%. Retail developments were good, particularly in the natural fresh category. We saw good developments in France, Germany, UK, Southern Europe. Food service was relatively stable. In the US, consumption increased by 6%. The fresh prepacked category continued to drive growth. And on our own numbers, this category increased by as much as 24%. Food service was relatively stable. Asia very positive in the quarter, as we see here with the 13% supply and consumption growth, particularly good in China with the 28% increase and improved availability of large salmon has been positive. Yeah, and the spot prices have been reduced, particularly in Europe, where the superior reference price was somewhat inflated in Q1 24 due to the challenging winter and low availability of superior salmon back then. Yeah, and I'm looking at the cheap prices. These were relatively stable on a global basis. And the higher than expected harvest volumes so far this year should be seen in context of catching up effect. We have seen challenging biology in recent years, no growth the last years since 2021. So 2025 is expected to be a recovery year with approximately 6% estimated supply growth. And then we expect supply to return to trend growth of around 2-3% in the coming years because of regulation constraints. With regards to our own volumes, we maintain our volume guidance of 530,000 tons, but we are even more confident that we will reach these volumes. Then it's time for Ivan and some comments on the outlook. Thank you.

Thank you, Christian. Much appreciated. And it's time to conclude with some closing remarks before we wrap it all up with our Q&A session hosted by our IRO, Kim Dusvik. And as I said earlier this morning, the first quarter was another strong quarter for MoE, both operationally and biologically, with seasonally record high growth in the sea and improved biological metrics across the board. And this has continued in the second quarter, which seems to have been mirrored across the industry this time around, leading to record high industry supply growth and hence pressure on prices. Having said that, there is nothing in the number of individuals in the sea or regulation that has changed our view on limited supply growth in the coming years. So in our view, this is purely a catch-up effect of the three previous years of challenging biology. And whilst we are on the subject biology, we have maintained our own farming volume guidance of 530,000 tons this year. And if anything, there is upside risk to this guidance. And next year, we expect to have 600,000 tons with NOVA-C on board. And in Norway, we are on course for 400,000 tons. Furthermore, as Kristin just showed us here, we expect our realized production costs to come further down in the coming quarters. And in terms of the market, we still see good demand for our products, although this terrorist situation we have ongoing is not good for anyone, neither for the imposter nor the addressee. Having said that, everything that has taken place so far, I would say, is well within manageable, in particular with our integrated and diversified global value chain, which enables us to tailor our trade more effectively than most of our peers. But for everyone's sake, let's hope this terrible situation does not escalate. Otherwise, as you may have noticed, the Norwegian government's long-announced white paper on aquaculture came just before Easter, after what I think is fair to say have been many postponements. Good things come to those who wait, they say, but in this case I'm not sure, because this was discouraging reading, I have to say, both the way they portray us and the solutions they prescribe, which are in characteristic Labour Party style, more taxes and fees. And if anyone is wondering, lies are the root of all evil, and lies, quote us, are the only salvation. Just for the sake of argument, Liza mentioned 443 times in this white paper, 97-page white paper, and that's almost five times per page. Weill's jobs on the other hand, brace yourself, were only mentioned three times. Three times. Think of that from the Labour Party. So I think we can safely say that this white paper is biased, so we have a job to do, so we do not end up throwing the baby out with the bath water in our eagerness to transform this industry. Don't forget that we have a lot of promising things going on, such as post-smolt subsistence farming and lysis lasers to mention some. So let's let things work instead of up and everything in the midst of the transformation process. That's our humble advice in this. So that's Christian and Kim. I think we're ready for the Q&A sessions. If you, Christian, can please join me on the stage and you, Kim, can administer the mic from the audience.

very good so this time around we'll start with a question from the web it's from alexander sloan in barclays he has got a question about supply growth you had guided two to three percent industry supply growth in february but now you expect six percent what has changed is there a chance that to 2026 supply growth which you still expect to be around 2-3%, could also be revised up.

that during the presentation, we have seen that biological performance and the recovery in Norway has been even better than we thought back in February. That being said, we have seen that the industry has operated at a high capacity utilization level with reference to the maximum allowed biomass. And we think that there is, in that case, limited growth potential versus that high capacity level, given the regulations we have. So I think 2025 will be a year where we have seen recovery from several years with very modest numbers. In practice, no growth. That also limits the potential going forward as we see it.

Maybe I can add a comment to this. So it has gone fantastically well in the sea so far this year. In my almost 20 years in this industry, I can't remember we have seen this before. And in the end of the day, this is also in the hands of Mother Nature, and she is normally not that nice two years in a row. So just to support Christian's comments here.

Christian Nordby, Arctic Securities. When we look at fish meal and fish oil prices, they've come down a lot over the last 12 months. But your revenue kilo in the feed segment has been quite flat since Q2. What's the reason why that's not dropping with the raw materials?

We have seen that there has been a positive development during 24. And I think the numbers you have seen this quarter has been relatively stable then. And then with the good fundamentals with regards to the fishery season in Peru, we expect continued positive effects there going forward. But I think it's fair to say that it was sort of a little pause in the momentum now in the first quarter.

It's also about the feed formula and the cost of the energy you put into the feed. So you cannot think of this on a purely linear basis. You will also play around with the ingredients you have.

And in terms of the very strong biology we've seen now in the first half of 25 compared to particularly the first half of 24, how significant is that for cost going into sort of the second half of 25 for Norway?

The cost for NOVA is dropping, and it's the entity that shows the most positive cost development. And on a positive note, that's also our biggest or largest leg. So if this continues, I think you will be happy in the end, Christo. But it's also about biology. So let's see how long this lasts. Because again, what you have seen so far is amazing. And that doesn't happen often.

Okay. Any more questions?

Hi, Alex from D&B Carnegie. So just on the year-on-year growth, it's obviously been very high during Q1 and seems to be that in Q2. When do you expect the Q&Q growth to ease off? And second question on the retail prices, have they started to come down or are they still at an elevated level?

We start with the last question, remember the best. So retail prices, we haven't seen any major downwards development yet. Usually, we see that effect over time with lower prices, so that's something we expect. And then with regards to the volume development, the supply outlook, we believe that you will see some more moderate growth figures in the quarters to come, but there's still, of course, a high biomass situation, and this will continue to impact 2025 as a whole.

To be even more specific, you asked about the quarter-over-quarter effect there. So I think you will see a growth quarter-over-quarter until we are approaching year-end. So sometime in the fourth quarter. And if you then take into account the number of individuals and normalize biology, because at least that would be doing our internal forecast, most likely next year will look very different because we don't have the support from the numbers in this year, which we referred to during the presentation. And we've been through this before, ladies and gentlemen. So at least where I come from is that we will see... repetition. It's just a matter of when. So that's our internal forecast. So we are much more optimistic about next year when it comes to prices than this year. This year there is simply too much fish in the market. Take Norway for instance. April and May so far is up by more than 30% from Norway export volumes. That's crazy. And again, to be a little bit walkier, then you kill the price. And that's what we have done, the industry. But after rain, you will have some, also this time around. So hold out.

Perhaps I can just also add another brief comment on the retail price question. I can also just refer to the fact that if you look to the US market, which has gotten a lot of attention, we see stable high retail prices. even though you have seen some lower export prices, at least from Norway, more stable prices from Chile. But nevertheless, it shows that demand is good as we see it. So that's something we can take with us. And again, we expect also then some of this to be shifted out in the value chain. And that also will then lead to some lower retail prices, which can then boost the demand further.

You comment that global supply growth is estimated up by 8%, but that consumption is up by 5%. So that could suggest that there's some accumulation along the value chain of volumes. Do you expect that to impact price dynamics going forward? Or would you say that it's largely as normal and would be cleared out during the second quarter? as normal.

We believe this is normal. No particular effects here to mention. You see that the consumption was somewhat higher than the supplier, around 7,000 tons higher. So it's actually some more consumed than was sent out from the regions. So again, back to demand. It has been swallowed by the market. Yeah, but nothing particular, I would say, regards to the inventory buildup, etc.

So in other words, clear out in the first half of this year. Yeah. So behind us.

Yeah. In terms of retail activity, promotions, campaigns, have you planned any more now than last year going into the second half?

Absolutely, we have. So the preparations are ongoing. We have been through this before, so we know what to do.

So the average price to end consumers could actually come down already in the second half, despite that the general shelf price will be a more gradual decline, but there could be lower prices?

Yeah, you know, the shelf price will go down eventually, but you normally have a lag there. So you will get tailwind from lower shelf price plus promotions. So normally what we see is after very high growth, if you look at the history, typically have built demand and then supply go down and prices go up. So let's see if you see that again. So it's always exciting in this industry. But we strongly believe in this and act accordingly.

Could you comment a little bit more on the very good performance in Norway in the quarter, both for yourselves and the rest of the industry? Is it a function primarily of the better winter vaccine and better sea temperatures, or do we also see some effects of changes to technology, forming practices, regulatory approach, or any other factors?

So the last part of your question, that takes place more gradually. And if you look to more and over, we have been through a fantastic journey here, which is not finished, which you will see a further development. But what stands out this year is last year was very bad. It was a tough year before that and the year before that again. So I would say what we call the environmental conditions, they have been much better in Norway. along the entire coastline this year, in addition to the new WinterSol vaccine, which obviously works, that we see. Although you cannot say it scientifically for an economist like you and myself. There's more than evidence to say that we have something that works now. So tailwinds from every which way. That doesn't happen often, Doug. But that's what we have seen so far. Unfortunately, there is a flip side here, and that's prices.

Hi, William from Danske Bank. Just a quick follow up on US demand. Of course, you mentioned positive developments in retail and potential for limited tariff impacts. But could you just share a little bit of just how customers react and sort of total demand impact short term in light of just implementing tariffs?

So far, we haven't seen that effect yet, because the shelf prices haven't changed, right? So then you will see the consumer reaction, or the economy is poorer. But you haven't seen that either. So it's yet to come. So it's just speculation, really. It's what we said earlier. very honestly during the presentation we don't know and I guess no one knows so it depends on how this develops going forward I've said before that if this is a 10% tariff flat that's something we can easily live with and work ourselves through that will not be painful but if you get more than that then I'm afraid that this pain will be more than just a few months. So I don't have a better answer to your very good question than this. So I know exactly as much or perhaps as little as you do.

Thank you. Okay. That concludes the Q&A.

Right, then it only remains for me to thank everyone for the attention. We hope to see you back already in August at our second quarter release, if not before. And in the meantime, take care and have a great day ahead. Thank you.