Netcompany Group As Adr

Welcome to Net Company's interim report for Q1 2024. For the first part of this call, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Afterwards, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question, please press 5 star on your telephone keypad. This call is being recorded, and I will now hand it over to your speakers. Please begin.

Good day and welcome to this presentation of NetCompany results for Q1 2024. My name is Andrei Rogachevsky and I'm the CEO and co-founder of NetCompany. And I'm joined today by our CFO, Thomas Johansen. Before we get going, there are some important disclosures that I need you to read through. So could we please have slide number two, please? I will pause for 30 seconds here and let you all have a read through of these important disclosures. And with that, can we please go to slide number three, please? The topic of today's presentation is our performance for Q1 2024. I will walk you through the business highlights for the first quarter and our financial guidance for 2024. Once I'm done, Thomas will go through the numbers in greater detail before we open the call for questions. Again, we have the next slide, please. In Q1, we grew revenue by 3.6% in constant currencies. Fewer working days in Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands in Q1 this year compared to the same quarter last year, impacted revenue growth negatively by around 3 percentage points, underpinning the solid performance delivered by the group in the first quarter of the year. Gross profit in Q1 was on level with last year, yielding a gross margin of 27.4%, which was 1.2 percentage points lower than the same period last year. The lower gross margin was driven by fewer working days in the quarter compared to last year, which more than offset the improved utilization in both Denmark and the Netherlands. And adjusted for this underlying gross margin was 29.6% in the quarter. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 15.5% in Q1 2024, compared to 15.7% the same period last year. In constant currencies, adjusted EBITDA margin was on par with Q1 2023, despite fewer working days in the quarter. On a like-for-like basis, adjusted for the fewer working days, their margin was 18% in Q1 2024. We added 295 full-time employees when comparing to the same quarter last year, bringing the total FTE number to 2,808, an increase of 3.9%. Can we have the next slide, please? We have won several new contracts during the first quarter of the year, of which I am mentioning a few here. In Norway, our product for child welfare services, Modulus Barn, has been chosen by two regions, Trøndelag and Valdres. This will add 21 new municipalities to the already 70 municipalities using the product. In private segment Denmark, we have won a framework agreement with Arle Foods as a preferred vendor. The project will assist farmers with relevant data insights and recommendations in their transition to more sustainable farming. In public segment Denmark, we will continue the partnership with the Danish Agriculture Agency for development and maintenance of the foundational IT solution in regulation, and administration of EU agricultural grants management in Denmark. Further, in Q1 2024, Net Company UK won a significant contract with duration of up to five years and revenue from this contract is expected from the second half of 2024. And we look forward to disclosing more details on this contract win soon. Slide number six, please. In that company, Intrasoft, we have also signed several new contracts in the first quarter of the year, of which we have highlighted some here. In the European Union, we have signed three plus one year framework agreements with the European Agency for the Operational Management of large scale IT systems in the area of freedom, security and justice. In the public segment in Greece, we have signed a framework agreement with the scope of dataization of data archives of the hospitals supervised by the Ministry of Health. And in the private segment in Greece, we have been awarded a three-year contract extension with Eurobank. The agreement includes maintenance and support of the credit card processing system. And can we have the next slide, please? In Q1 2024, we employed an average of 7,808 employees, which was an increase of 3.9% compared to the same period last year. In Denmark, employees were on level with Q1 last year, but during Q1 2024, we welcomed 144 new employees to our offices in Denmark. Intrasoft employee growth was 10.2%. And in Netherlands and UK, employee growth was 14.8% and 6.7%, respectively. Churn for the last 12 months was 16.3%, which was a decrease of 3.7 percentage points compared to last year. And can we have slide eight, please? In Q1 2024, we grew revenue by 3.6% and realized adjusted EBITDA margin of 15.7% against strong comparable and despite being negatively impacted by fewer working days due to the timing of Easter. With growth on track, we see ourselves well off for the year and maintain our expectations for the financial performance for 2024 and expect revenue growth for the group between 7 and 10% and adjusted EBITDA margin between 15 and 18%. Furthermore, we reiterate our mid-term target to be achieved by 2026 with a revenue target of at least 8.5 billion Danish and adjusted EBITDA margin of at least 20%. We also reiterate our commitment to redistribute at least 2 billion of cash to shareholders, mainly as a share buyback. And in that aspect, we initiate a new share buyback program of DKK 250 million to be executed by 12th of August 2024. And with that, I will pass on the word to Thomas, who will give us a more detailed view on the financial performance in Q1 2024. Thomas, please go ahead.

Thank you for that, André. And like already mentioned, I am the CFO in Net Company, and I will now go more into details with the financial performance for Q1 2024. So if we move past the breaking slide number nine and straight into slide number ten, please, in one go. Andre has already spoken to our performance in general terms and I will now go more in details with the performance for Q1 2024. In Q1, revenue increased by 3.6%, measured in constant currencies. Currencies impacted growth positively by 0.2 percentage points, leaving reported revenue growth at 3.8% for Q1. The growth was driven by solid growth in Intrasoft and the Netherlands that grew 9.9% and 41% respectively. Revenue in Denmark was on par with Q1 last year, despite three working days fewer in the quarter, which impacted revenue negatively by close to 5 percentage points. Adjusted for this, public segment in Denmark increased 6.6% and the private segment in Denmark increased by 2.2%. The net company Intrasoft started the year off strong and realized 9.9% revenue growth in the first quarter. The growth was driven by the public and the EU segment that grew 13.7%, while the private segment revenue declined slightly by 1.2% compared to the same quarter last year. In the UK, revenue declined 4.1% compared to the same period last year. However, in Q1, net company UK won a significant contract with a duration of up to five years. Revenue growth in the UK is therefore expected to come back from the second half of 2024. Revenue in Norway was on par with Q1 last year, despite fewer working days in the quarter, impacting revenue negatively by more than five percentage points. Adjusted for the fewer working days, the public segment grew 7.7% and the private segment grew 5.6% in Q1 2024. And finally, Netcom in Netherlands delivered significant revenue growth of 41% in the first quarter, solely driven by the public segment. And can we move to the next slide, please? Gross profit margin decreased by 1 percentage point to 28% in Q1 compared to last year. However, adjusting for fewer working days in Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands, gross profit margin would have been 29.6% in Q1 2024. In Denmark, gross profit margin increased 1.5 percentage point despite the negative impact from fewer working days as a result of increased utilization throughout the quarter. Margins in net company interest of declined by 1.2 percentage point, negatively impacted by a different revenue mix in the quarter. In the UK, margin was 18.9% compared to 30% in the same quarter last year. The lower margin was a consequence of continued participation preparation of tender material, which was also the case during Q3 and Q4 in 2023. Margin in Norway decreased 3.5 percentage point in Q1 compared to the same quarter, impacted negatively by fewer working days in this quarter. In the Netherlands, margin increased 13 percentage point and reached 33.5%. The increased margin in the Netherlands was a result of significantly better project economics and improved utilization. Can we move to the next slide, please? Adjusted EBITDA margin before allocated cost from headquarter was 16.6% in Q1 and thereby on level with last year. In Denmark, margin increased 2.1 percentage point compared to last year as a result of better utilization and lower administrative costs. Margin in e-company Intrasoft decreased 0.8 percentage point due to the difference in revenue mix as already mentioned. The margins in the UK decreased by 10% to 9.6%, mainly driven by the lower gross profit margin. In Norway, margin decreased marginally by 0.8%, impacted negatively by fewer working days. In the Netherlands, margins improved significantly by 18 percentage points to close to 20% at 19.8 as a result of strong delivery on projects and execution. Can we have the next slide, please? Work in progress decreased by 2.7% to 909.9 million Danish in Q1 2024. Naturally, the work in progress was impacted by fewer working days in March 2024 compared to last year. As a total, the combined work-in-progress, pre-built invoices and trade receivables increased by 11.5% to $2.63 billion, whereas the revenue for the last 12 months increased 7.4%. The higher increase compared to revenue growth for the last 12 months was caused by the timing of Easter, which brought trade receivables up temporarily as payments to be received end of March was received on 2nd and 3rd of April. Can we go to the next slide, please? Free cash flow was negative by 4.9 million Danish in Q1 compared to 141.6 million Danish in Q1 2023. The free cash flow was, as mentioned, negatively impacted by the timing of tax payments and working capital changes impacted by ISDA. Trade receivables paid in the following month, that's the month of April, increased by 126.2% compared to last year and amounted to 652 million Danish. The increase in trade receivables paid in the following month clearly was also a result of Q1 2024 ending on an Easter holiday. Leverage was unchanged 1.6 times compared to Q1 2023. As part of our 2026 midterm targets of redistributing at least 2 billion to our shareholders, we have this morning initiated a new share buyback program of 250 million, which will be executed by before the 12th of August 2024. Can we have the next slide, please? Revenue visibility improved 9.7% to 5.4 billion Danish in Q1 compared to last year. Visibility increased by 10.9% in the public segment and 6.9% in the private segment. We see this improvement as a clear sign that both public entities and private companies are increasing their willingness to invest and increase their IT investments. With that, I have concluded the detailed financial analysis and we will now open up the call for questions. So if we move to the Q&A slide, please, and open the call up for questions. Thank you.

Thank you. If you do wish to ask a question, please press five star on your telephone keypad. If you find that your question has already been answered, press five star again to withdraw it. We will have a brief pause while questions are being registered. The first question is from George White from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.

Hi, Andre and Thomas, and well done on a good first quarter. I'll kick off with a few bigger picture questions, please. Firstly, just coming back to what you kind of said around the revenue visibility, but on the big picture demand environment, if we look across The IT services sector, there's been some pretty mixed prints from some of the biggest players in the industry where Q1s were quite slow, calling out project slippages, even if they're calling for recoveries moving forward. Your Q1 was pretty strong considering that working days headwinds, particularly in Denmark. So I wonder if you can touch a little bit more on the overall demand environment you're seeing and whether you're expecting a meaningful growth acceleration in Q2 as base comps ease and as the working days turns to a tailwind. Secondly, on the profit guidance, Q1 margin reported 15.5% on EBITDA. You were kind of talking about that kind of close to three-point impact from working days. So Q2 should benefit from that. Historically, you've seen them have a stronger second half on margins. So are you actually feeling more comfortable that you're more likely to be at the upper end of your guidance range than the lower end at this stage? And then lastly, on costs, if I look at the Q1 admin costs, X salaries and depreciation, down 12 million in Q1 over last year. And in the written report, it was talking about beginning to gain scaling efficiency. So wondering if you could talk about where those savings are and the sustainability. Thank you.

George, and thank you for some good questions as well. I mean, on the demand side, there's no doubt that we are seeing a larger demand, but also mainly as a result of our a consistent strategy on addressing customers with our platforms and our products. We have been over the last one and a half year discussing almost every engagement that we are doing, new engagements with our platforms in our hand. So these are systems where we talk AI, but we also talk real-time optimizations. We talk case management, very, very complex case management, and we have, to a very large extent, also technology and methodology with us when we address the customers. So we see an increasing demand for the approach that we have, where we quickly can set up both demos and realize systems faster than many of our competitors. So that's been a result of that, and we see the demand in both private and public sector increasing in 24 compared to 23. In 23 there was a, especially in the beginning of 23, there was a sense of maybe a financial crisis arising and we saw both stagnation in public and private demand. We don't see that in 24 at all. And when it comes to the Q2 and the EBITDA and of course the The working days in relation to the Easter holiday, well, you're absolutely right. So the days that we are missing in Q1 will impact us positively in Q2. And when it comes to the expense levels, I will leave that one to Thomas.

Thanks, Andre, and thanks for the question, George. And on the question on the admin cost, and I read your question as to whether this is now a stable run level, it is true that our admin costs are lower, and it is true that we are starting to benefit from realizing scale. Also, though, in Q1, if you look at the amount of FTEs in Denmark, that is actually lower than it was in Q1 last year. And our employees and new employees are driving some costs that are anchored in the admin cost. So while we look at 2024 and onwards with comfort, and that we also believe that we can start scaling admin cost, there might be a little bumps up and down depending on when FTE growth is hitting the various quarters, just so that you don't get surprised on that.

It's really helpful. Thank you. If I could just add one more. On the UK business, you called out a contract that you won in the first quarter, but not in great detail. Is there anything more you can say about that? Was that one of the previous frameworks you've been assigned to?

No, and we cannot say that much more in detail now. But what we can say is that within a few weeks time, we can be more specific. It's a significant contract. And as you know, we've been investing into writing large tenders, actually several large tenders. And we will talk more about that when we can.

Okay, perfect. Thank you.

Next up, we have Daniel Jukreberg from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.

Thank you, operator, and good day, André and Thomas. And congrats to solid numbers, especially on the cost discipline. I would like to start with a little bit, if we can talk about the mixed effect in the quarter, volume versus price and cost. support from price and also a little bit on if we saw the full employee salary increase starting from january and if that what kind of level that was for the full group and if possible a little bit more different in various parts of the group thank you

Thanks for the question Daniel and good morning to you. On the vol price mix we will answer as we normally do and that is we don't really give too much detail on our price setting. What we can say is that the performance in Q1 is not driven by significant increases in our hourly rates. It is basically driven by improved utilization. Of course, there's a little bit of price adjustments, but the main gain is from increased utilization. And on the salary increase that we normally see in Q1, that is also as we normally do. We've salary adjusted all of our employees on the 1st of January. And that means that the salary pool for people that we have on contract on the 1st of January is increasing with between six and eight percent. It's not that I don't have the number, but we'll keep the range. That will then even out as we go through the year. But there is a full impact on the salary increase, if you so will, in Q1, which underpins even further the underlying improvement in margin.

Yeah, perfect. And if I may ask you on the work you have done in more or less right-sizing or age-sizing the organization to to get the employee turnover at the right level. Can you say anything if you're done with that work or if it's more to be done there?

Well, we've done some considerable work in terms of rightsizing, as you said, but we are very much finishing that now. And as you can see, the first quarter, because we are getting more busy, we've hired a bunch of new people, also some very young people to start up. So the pyramid is looking the way we would like it to look like, and we are ready for growth.

Perfect. And if I may ask the last question here, there was some news in the quarter on this EPO investigation in Greece on this RRF funded projects. And I just wanted to hear from you on the status, if investors can leave this event and potential risk behind in full. That's my question.

Sure, and thanks for bringing that up also, Daniel. It's true that we, alongside with 10 other large companies in Greece, had a visit from the EU competition authorities in terms of tender awards and tender wins. We do not expect the visit to have any negative outcome on our business, neither in Greece nor in the European Union with Intrasoft or with the Net Company Group as such.

Perfect. Thank you.

Our next question is from Claus Alma from Nordea. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.

Thank you. Also a few questions from my side. The first question goes to Denmark. If we try to adjust for the whole Easter timing, Q1 and Q2, should we expect Denmark to be back to double-digit revenue growth already from Q2? And if that happens, should we start to dream that Denmark will return to some of these peak margins we saw a few years back? That would be the first one.

Thanks for that Claus. You know us very well so you also know that I'm going to answer that we will not comment on what we expect on a quarterly basis in terms of revenue growth. The pure math of the start of this year with Easter hitting Q1 of course means that Relative, we will have a somewhat easier comparable when we look at Q2, but whether that is a double-digit growth in Denmark or not, I will not comment on further, but just to refer back to what André said in the beginning of the call, namely that we are busy and we see strong support for the services that we render, which is good, and that's both in public and private. In terms of margin trajectory, I'll refer to the bridge that we've made for how to get from 2023 level, where the group margin was 15%, to at least 20% in 2026. Part of that is an increased margin in Denmark and with the performance in Q1. Of course, we want to continue to show that we can do that. We do believe that we've shown that the variables that we have in the bridge to the 20% margin in 2026 are viable and achievable. And I'll leave it at that.

Okay, it was worth trying at least. Looking at this UK project win, Do you need to use FTEs from outside the UK division or can you meet the order by adding people within the UK?

Well, we will of course need some expertise from other countries, but the main contribution to engagements in the UK will be UK people.

Okay, that was all from my side. Thanks so much, and it was a nice first quarter. Thanks, Laus.

Next up, we have E-Way Joe from SED. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.

Hi, Andrew. Thank you for taking my question and congrats to the good Q1 resource. I have three questions here. I'll do one at a time. Firstly, a question on Norway. Just for these three facts, it still shows a gross deacceleration here in the quarter. and still far below your medium-term targets. Could you maybe add a bit of flavor on your expectation? And in relation to that, could you please give an update on the delivery of the Aveeno contract?

Yes, thank you for that, Ive. So in Norway, as we also mentioned, we are delivering the system for child welfare system for the municipalities, and we expect that to continue over the year. And we actually expect to have even further penetration into that market. And when it comes down to the Avenor contract, That one is building up a bit slower than planned. It's more complex than such, but we are in a very good state there. So it's more a question of timing. So overall, we feel comfortable in the Norwegian space. And we see an organization there that is much more capable of delivering larger IT projects than they were just one, two years ago.

And we still believe those targets we've set for the revenue growth mid-term to get there. We still firmly believe in those. So it is a matter of, as André said, ramping up and that is taking a little longer time than anticipated, but we're getting there.

Great. Can I just follow up here? Because Q4, you had a big margin improvement in Norway, but then Q1, loss making again. Should we still expect those kind of fluctuations during 2024, or are you confident to return to the positive margin trend?

I'll have to disappoint you a little bit here and say that yes, there will be fluctuations in margins. The reason why Q4 was so strong was that we had a high proportion of revenue that came from licenses. And clearly, when we realize licenses in a quarter, and especially in Norway, which is a smaller business, then that will have a significant drive on margin. And we will also see that during these quarters in 2024 and potentially also one month.

Great, very clear. Thanks. And my next question is on the Danish operation. So if we adjusted for these three facts, would you be happy with the employee utilization in Q1 or you still see room for further improvement?

That's a good question. We're poised for some booby traps here, I think. I will answer in a way that we are satisfied with the performance in the Danish organization in Q1 without answering straight on your question as to can the utilization improve even further. But I understand you have to try.

All right. Fair enough. Thanks. And then a follow-up question, actually, on the UK large contract. Could you please comment if it was wrong before the end of Q1 or after? Just trying to figure out if it was included already in the revenue visibility figures you provided in the report.

Contract won in Q1 but not in revenue visibility as some technicalities in terms of when we start is only being fleshed out now and that's also why we're not commenting on what it really is more than we've won the contract. So the contract win is not reflected in the revenue visibility for the remaining part of the year.

Okay, but then the delivery will start in the second half.

Yes, sir.

Right. If I'm allowed, last question here is also on the UK. You mentioned that the P&O varies on the contract. Could you maybe comment on the time for delivery and maybe contract size?

So delivery has started and it will be a continuous delivery over longer periods of time, but we cannot go into detail about the contract size.

Okay, thanks. I'll jump back to the queue.

And next up, we have Mia Marks from Redburn Atlantic. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.

Morning, and thank you for taking my question. I just want to find out the 3% impact reported from the working day hearings in Denmark. Could you please explain the mechanism here? I was under the impression that most of the contracts in the public sector here are mostly fixed price engagements rather than time materials. So is there, therefore, an impact from a percentage of completion on a revenue recognition on a daily basis, or how do I think about the impact on fixed... fixed price engagements.

Yeah, thanks for the question. And you actually had the answer in part of your question. The impact from public holidays in Q1 on the fixed fee contracts is, as you say, a percentage of completion. So if there is in a quarter three working days less, that means that the work on those contracts clearly will be less complete than if we had three working days more. So as the percentage of completion is lower, then the relative income recognition of those fixed fee projects are clearly also lower, simply because the projects have not been as progressed as if there had been more working days. So it's the mechanisms of POC accounting percentage of completion on fixed fee projects where we look at what is the percentage of completion, estimated time to complete and then clearly on an ongoing basis income recognised according to that.

Understood. And just another one. On the total cash topics, I think it was 191 million and seems to be down 11% sequentially. Is this also again some extent to working days impact or is this some new baseline we can perhaps extrapolate a portion of savings into the next few quarters?

Yeah, the first part of the question, the line is not very clear. So can you please reiterate the first part of the question, what it was?

Sorry, the total cash opex, I think, was 191 million, which was down sequentially around 11%. I just wanted to know if this was mostly due to working days or also if maybe there's a new baseline or savings that we could possibly extrapolate for the following quarters to come.

There's some savings that comes from scale. There's also some lower cost on admin, as I mentioned earlier on, which is related to how many people we hire. And clearly in Denmark, for instance, we are fewer people in Q1 compared to Q1 last year. which means that there's a lot of one-off initial cost when we say hello to our new employees, which are lower in Q1. And some of that will come back as we will see more people coming to the offices in Q2 and onwards. But there will also be some more staying of some of the lower costs without going into more details. But there will be some that are FTE driven. Perfect. Thank you so much.

The next question is from Maladi Tarotodi from Citi, and he just disconnected. We will continue with Alistair from Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted. I do believe we have Maladi Tarotodi from Citi back on the line. Please go ahead.

Hi, thank you. Thanks for letting me on. And congratulations on decent set of numbers for first quarter. Two questions from my side, if I may. Firstly, on better than expected profitability in the quarter, clearly benefited from superior utilization rate. do you see the current utilization improvement sustainable? And how should we think of headcount growth going ahead given expectation of growth acceleration to close to double-digit rate in rest of the year? And the second question on cash flow, would it be possible to quantify the impact on working capital from early Easter break? And would it be fair to see the higher cash tax in the quarter as part of reversal from lower cash tax last year Or should we expect reversal in the coming quarters? And also, how should we think of cost capitalization rate and lease cost in the coming quarters versus the first quarter level? Thank you.

All right, thanks for the questions, Badri. When it comes to utilization, whether that level we are in now is something we can expect to at least sustain, the short answer to that is yes. And without going into what that then means for FTE recruitment and the likes. I'll just leave it at that. On the cash flow impact from Easter falling at the end of March, the timing difference, if you so will, on accounts receivables received on the 2nd and 3rd of April, which in a in a month where we didn't have Easter at the quarter end that impact is somewhere between 125 and 135 million so free cash flow would have been 125 to 135 million better if those payments that were regarding Outstanding's end of March was actually also received in March. We only received them in our bank because it was banking holiday on the 31st and the 1st. We only received them in our bank on the 2nd and 3rd of April. So 120 to 135 million. On the increased tax rate part is a calculation or a correction due to earlier years in terms of tax and then there is a generally speaking higher tax rate than what we have seen historically which has been around 22%. And that has to do with the limitation to interest costs under the Danish tax code when the balance sheet is composed of a large proportion of intangible assets. So there's a tax code in Denmark which prohibits especially private equity to basically level up and then subtract all the interest rate for that and have the tax payers pay for the investment. So that's why it is a little bit elevated. It will come down gradually, but it will be higher than 22% for the remaining part of the year. And then the last question I didn't get, so if you can reiterate that.

Sure. Before going there, also clarification on the cash tax, which was higher than P&L tax. The question on that part was, Is it on account of reversal from lower cash tax last year, or should we expect reversal or the difference between P&L tax and cash tax to reverse in coming quarters? And the last part of the question, please go ahead.

There's some payment of some adjustment to taxes for 2023, which happened in Q1, and clearly those will not happen in Q2 and onwards.

But there is no reversal either. The higher cash tax this quarter doesn't mean that cash tax in the coming quarter is going to be lower than P&L tax. It's more of a catch-up.

No, no. As we've always said, and maybe we'll take this as an item off, but the cash tax will always be higher potentially than the profit and loss tax due to the Danish system where you pay your income tax on account in Q1 and Q4. So basically the entire income tax for a full year, we pay in two quarters, Q1 and Q4. That means we pay taxes in Q1. no taxes in Q2, and we pay no taxes in Q3, and then we pay again in Q4, which of course means that in Q1 and Q4, the paid taxes, all other things equal, will be higher than the accrued taxes.

Does this make sense? It does. Nonetheless, I mean, it's still the cash tax for first quarter in Q34 versus first quarter in Q23 is significantly higher, almost double of that, and that is why it was asking this question on the reason behind such an increase in cash tax. And your point taken, the last part was on the cost capitalization in the quarter and lease cost in the quarter. How should we see both of these versus the first quarter level as we go ahead in the year?

So the lease cost, so that's basically the depreciation, because we are capitalizing right to use assets, have a level in Q1, which is a normalized run rate. So you can utilize that. And the other cost that you were referring to, I'm sorry, it's a very bad line, so it's difficult to hear the question. Apologies.

The part of cost that you capitalize as intangible investment.

Okay, so the capitalized cost you talk about.

Yes, and also the amortization charges. So both of that, how should we think about them as we go ahead in the year?

So they are now, and compared to what we've said previously, we've said previously we expect the capsular cost to be to the tune of around 120 million for a full year, which was in line with 2023. If you look at Q1, then we have capitalized 20 million compared to 30 million in Q1 2023. That is not the same to say that Now the capitalized cost will be 80 million as a given. It might be higher, but we don't expect it to be higher than what we have said previously, which was 120 million. It should be a little bit lower, but it could be higher depending on what we do in the different parts of the business in terms of development on product and platforms.

And then amortization charges, should we expect them to go up as we go ahead? Because last year amortization charges were 30 odd million on account of capitalized cost. And since the number is higher, should we expect that to increase through the quarter in 2024?

I'm not going to discuss amortization on a quarterly basis, but I do suggest you take it offline with Frederikke. Overall, when we capitalize more cost as our own development, of course, the logic is that until we have done that for a full five-year cycle, then the amortization regarded to that will be higher. What is offsetting that increase is that other parts of the intangible assets relates to some acquisitions we've made and they are beginning to be fully amortized. So that is offsetting that increase. So there are bips and bobs and difficult to give a very straight answer in a call like this, but be happy to take it offline.

Very useful. Appreciate it always. Thank you.

And the next question, I do believe the name is Alistair from Bank of America. Please state your name before your question just for the record. Thank you. Your line will now be opened.

Hey, Andre Thomas. This is Aditya from Bank of America. Thanks for taking my questions. Most of them have actually been answered, but if you could just comment on the UK. So you talked about vehicle growth in the public sector. Can you talk about what's driving that beyond maybe the impact of spending time on the tenders, anything related to the market itself? Second, and lastly, I'm going to try getting this again, although you did talk about it a bit earlier. Given the working day impact versus in the second quarter, so should we think that the 5 percentage point impact you had, let's say, in Denmark, that should be like a 5 percentage point, let's say, tailwind versus 1Q into 2Q? And then finally, could you just talk about what you're seeing in general around... I mean, just on the demand environment, as you said, but more specifically around the, let's say, discretionary aspect of spending with a more larger deal. So that's been one area of weakness flagged by some of your peers.

Well, thank you for that question, Alistair, and I think I'll take the first one. When it comes to the UK market, we see a demand for our platforms and products, and it's both in private and public sector. So our Pulse product, which is used to real-time optimization of transportation companies and logistic supply chain kind of cases, we see an increasing demand, but we also see a great interest for our public platforms and products here under also of course our tax and customs products Hermes and Solon tax. So it's a very positive development where we approach customers with concrete solutions and something that they can tap into really fast, and I see that as a great parameter for being competitive and differentiated in terms of other competitors in that market space. And when it comes to the working day question, I think, Thomas, you can probably allude to that.

Sure. And thanks for the question, Aditya. So on the working day, the logic in the math is that the headwind in Q1 is going to be tailwind in Q2. And whether that is then X or Y percent, I'll not talk into. But clearly, if we are three days short in Q1 and we are three days up in Q2, then the logic is that all other things equal, you'll have the same effect, just reversed. And then your last question, I think, was what do we see in spending on large enterprise investments and big public deals? And I'll leave that to Andre also to give a little bit of a voiceover. And I think that was for the group in general.

Yes, I mean, we will always and continuously be working and focusing on larger tenders and larger engagements. But of course, when doing so, we also win some. So overall, seen from a longer time period perspective, it will be the same kind of business development efforts on average. But we will have periods of time like we've seen in the UK over the last two, three quarters where we're investing more into it. And then, of course, subsequently when we win some of them, it will go down again. It's very normal and we see that fluctuate throughout all the markets. But overall, it's going to be the same level of business development on average across our markets.

And maybe to add further, as you mentioned, some of our peers have seen a slowdown in their markets. We have not seen a slowdown in demand. We've not seen a slowdown in terms of the type of talks that we have, the amount of talks. And if anything, we do believe that the focus we initiated at the start of 2023 with increased focus on platforms and products is really beginning to show its worth now. We can see that in all the dialogues that we're having. They are progressing well and they are getting bigger and bigger and there's plenty of them.

Understood. Thank you, Thomas. Maybe just one quick follow-up on the free cash flow. I know you haven't given any guidance for the year, but how should you think about the, I guess, given, you know, obviously you have the working capital impact reversing in 2Q, how should you think about that overall for the full year? And also related to that, I guess you don't include the lease liabilities within that free cash flow number. Any particular reason for that? in terms of how we define that?

So in terms of what we think about the free cash flow, I didn't hear the last part of the question, but in terms of what we think of the free cash flow for the remaining part of the year, I think it's fair to assume that we are not concerned. And I think the best way of looking at that is that On the back end of Q1, we were initiating a second share buyback program, this time 250 million, which is on top of the 150 million that we did in the first quarter. So we are working diligently, we believe, with collecting our cash and making sure that the work in progress becomes receivables. and making sure that we are getting the cash flow that we require to meet those mid-term targets of 2 billion mainly cash share buyback by 2026.

Thanks so much. The second part of that was just you don't include the lease liabilities within that free cash flow number. Just wondering if there's any particular reason why that is compared to maybe some of your peers.

We have, right or wrong, but we have always used free cash flow before depreciation and on leases, also when we were at our previous headquarter. Now clearly, the headquarter now has a higher lease, if you so will. But this is the same method we've used all along.

Perfect. Thank you. Thanks, Thomas.

The next question is from the line of Gianmarco Conti from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.

Hi, Andrea and Thomas. Thank you for squeezing me in. Congrats on the quarter. I just have two very short questions. On the first one, did the large UK contract that you mentioned in the report already show up in your revenue visibility metric? And was this the large win with HMRC that you were expecting? And the second one is for you, Thomas. Maybe could you share your expectations for the tax rate throughout the year? You know, the effective tax rate was 29% in Q1 and consensus is around 21% for FY24. Is this a fair assumption? Any column, that would be great. Thank you.

Thank you for those questions, Conrad. And the answer to the first question is no, so it cannot be seen in the visibility. And we cannot comment on what specific customer it is in question at the moment. But we will return and we will be back in a few weeks' time about more details about that contract.

And the second question, Jan-Marco, in terms of tax rate. The tax rate for 2024 will be lower than we realized in 2023, but it will be higher than the 22%. And the reason for that is the limitation to interest cost deduction. how much of the interest rate or the interest cost that we can deduct. And the reason why this then starts to show up in 2023 and now also in 2024 is that previously interest rate was close to zero and right now interest rate is higher. So even though that we will continue to deleverage And even though that we will see also improvement in earnings, we will have to some extent and in some period and elevated the effective tax rate above 22%. The reason why I'm not going to be able to disclose what we expect in terms of effective tax rate is that that will be a very big stepping stone in you being able to calculate what we then expect in terms of earnings. And that is still a little early in the year to give you that number, John Markle.

Understood. Thank you.

And our final attendee with a question is Orsan Rawls from Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.

Thanks for taking my questions. Three quick ones for me. The first is just on the UK, where there wasn't any work impacting Q1. Obviously very positive to see the sort of tone on H2 and the large contracts. I was wondering if you could give some color on the sequential slowdown in Q1. And I know you won't give explicit guidance on Q2, but could you give some more color where the Q2 is expected to be quite depressed again before an acceleration in H2? That's the first question.

Thanks for the question, Orson. We cannot comment more in detail on the... First of all, we don't comment on the quarters for the group, and therefore we're also not commenting on the expectation for the individual entities clearly. Now, the slowdown in the UK Q1 is related to significant tender writing activities. There will still be some of that in Q2, and then we will start to see revenue picking up in Q3 and Q4. That is also in line with what we said in connection with the annual report where we gave the revenue growth expectation on a geographical aspect and there we said that the UK would grow expected to grow between 10 and 30 percent which is quite a big swing. And I don't think it's a surprise that the low part of that range probably relates to 2024, reflecting that a lot of tender writing activities indeed is taking place in Q1 and also will take place in Q2 until we have onboarded and ramped fully on the contract win, which we cannot say which one is.

Okay, fantastic. That's helpful. Second question is just on the license revenues. There's been a lot of discussion on working days, which obviously should make Q2 a much easier comp. But I was wondering how you're thinking about license revenue, given that looking at the license revenue line, you did get quite a big chunk in Q2 last year. are above 30 million or so. I'm aware this is chunky and you probably can't give explicit guidance, but was wondering if you could give some call on how you're thinking about license revenue and sort of phasing through the year this year.

What we can say on licenses, exactly as you have said yourself, it is chunky. And whether that falls in Q2, Q3 or Q4, to some extent, is harder to predict. And of course, when it falls in a given quarter, it will have a almost 100% impact on on margin also so clearly it is moving it is moving the needle so there's some uncertainty to that which I am unfortunately not going to be able to say much more about other than yes we know it's there and yes we also know that we had a fair amount of licenses in q2 last year but we are Looking into a 2024, which we've come on a good start. So let's continue on focusing on that. But we're going to comment on the phasing of licenses.

Okay, fantastic. And then the final question is just on free cash flow. And again, aware that you're not going to give an explicit guidance, but through most of last year, you said that expectations for 2023 were going to be that absolute free cash flow would be higher than 22 levels. That wasn't quite realized. I was wondering if you have conviction that in 2024 free cash flow should recover to at least 2022 levels or is that too early to comment on that?

Yeah, we're not going to comment on that. The only thing I can look back to is that we feel confident on our full year guidance. We feel confident on our mid-term targets. And we have initiated yet another share buyback, which is now 100 million higher than it was in Q1, or the one we've done in Q1. So we feel comfortable with our target set also. But I'm not going to be able to comment on a specific cash flow expectation.

Okay, sure. That's fine. Thanks a lot. Helpful.

As there are no further questions, I will hand it back to the speakers for any closing remarks.

Well, thank you all for joining in today and have a good weekend.