Nkt A/S Unsp/Adr

Welcome to NKT Inter-Report for Q3 2023 presentation. Today's call is being recorded. For the first part of this call, all participants will be in a listen-aloud, and afterwards, there will be a question-and-answer session. To ask a question, please press 5-star on your telephone set. I would now like to introduce President and CEO Claes Westerlund and CFO Line Andreafan. Please begin.

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to this conference call following the release of our interim report for the first three quarters of this year. My name is Claes Westerlind, I'm the CEO, and with me today is our CFO, Line Fandrup. In today's call, in addition to the regular quarterly presentation, we will also introduce our new charging forward strategy, including our financial ambitions for 2030. I'll cover the strategic direction and business development, while Line will take you through the financials. Let's turn to slide number three. Before we dive into the presentation, I'd like to draw your attention to the disclaimer. Please note this presentation and comments may contain forward-looking statements. Now, let's move on to our key messages for the quarter. Please turn to slide number four. The financial performance in the third quarter of 2025 was solid. Activity levels remained high across all three business lines and we maintained double-digit organic growth, driven primarily by applications and service necessaries, but also solutions. Operational EBITDA improved across the businesses and reached €119 million for the quarter, marking another record high level for NKT and underscoring the solid development shown to date. Commercially, the quarter was also a success with two important announcements. First, we secured a firm order for the interconnector between the Bornholm Energy Island and Zeeland in Denmark. Secondly, we were selected as preferred bidder for the Eastern Greenlink III interconnector in the UK. We will take a closer look at both projects later on in the presentation. Our investment projects to expand capacity in both solutions and applications continued to progress according to plan and across all sites. We saw solid advancement with the projects tracking well against both budget and timeline. Last but certainly not least, we are launching our new company strategy, Charging Forward, to guide our direction and continued growth and value creation towards 2030. We have been through an impressive transformation and made significant progression. The focus shift to execution and value extraction, reinforcing NKT's position as a leading pure play power cable solutions provider. Alongside the strategy, we are also introducing new financial ambitions for 2030, targeting continued growth and further improvements in operational EBITDA and also ROSI. Before we dive into the short-term development for the quarter, let's take a moment to explore the new strategy. Please turn to slide number six. Throughout 2025, we've been running a strategic review process as our current strategy, Renew Boost, concludes at the end of the year. I'm therefore excited to announce our new strategy, Charging Forward, which will guide our journey towards 2030. NKT has undergone an impressive transformation under both Renew and Renew Boost strategies. We have delivered strong financial results. launched major capacity expansion projects, significantly increased our high voltage order backlog and completed a strategic transformation of the company. Our new strategy, Charging Forward, is designed to further strengthen our position as the leading pure-play power cable solutions provider. We will focus on executing our substantial order backlog, ensuring we capture further high-value business while delivering on the capacity expansions already underway. At the same time, we will enhance our sustainable competitiveness to further differentiate NKT as a reliable partner and technology leader. The name Charging Forward reflects both identity and also our ambition. Charging speaks to the energy flowing through our cables, powering societies and driving the energy transition. It also captures the passion and determination of our people to deliver on our commitments. Forward signals progress, building on a decade of transformation to take the next decisive step toward a future defined by reliability, sustainability and innovation. Together, charging forward symbolizes momentum, ambition and purpose as we pioneer the energy transition and connect a greener world. Please turn to slide number seven. Our strategy is built around three pillars, execute, excel and evolve. These pillars form the foundation for our development and value creation as we move toward 2030. The first pillar, execute, it's about delivering on our substantial backlog and capacity expansions by effectively managing projects and resources. Execution will be a key focus area ensuring we successfully deliver the investment projects that will add additional high and medium voltage capacity and execute on our high voltage backlog. The emphasis will shift from investing in new capacity to executing on what's already in motion ensuring we extract the highest value from these investments. The second pillar, Excel, is about being a reliable partner to our customers, employees and society, and generating greater value from our existing strengths and assets. We will focus on enhancing our competitiveness and unlocking the full potential of our current capabilities, both internally but also in external pursuits. The third pillar, Evolve, it's about driving continuous innovation and developing the next generation of technology. It also includes pursuing selective growth opportunities that align with our long-term ambitions. This could potentially also include inorganic options. Please turn to the next slide where I'll walk you through our financial ambitions. With the launch of our new strategy, we are also introducing updated financial ambitions for 2030. The energy transition and broader electrification of European societies and beyond are expected to continue driving strong demand for power cable solutions. In the latter part of this decade, we will be well positioned to support this development through the additional capacity we are bringing to the market from 2027. As communicated in December last year, when we updated our 28 ambitions, the full contribution from our high voltage investments was not expected to be realized by 28. The new 2030 ambition now reflects that full contribution. Our financial ambitions for 2028 remain unchanged and based on the progress we have seen in 2025. Operationally, commercially and financially, we are well on track to deliver on those targets. While the 2028 ambitions are still valid, our forward-looking communication will now focus on 2030 to better illustrate NKT's long-term financial potential and value creation. These new ambitions reflect the full impact of our investments and the expected continued demand for power cable solutions. The financial KPIs remain unchanged, but we are adjusting the base year for organic revenue CAGR to 2024, as it's our latest reported financial year. Our new financial ambitions for 2030 are organic revenue CAGR from 2024 to 2030 of more than 7%, operational EBITDA of more than 900 million, Return on capital employed, ROCE, of more than 22%. The improvement from 28 is expected primarily to be driven by solutions, as the full potential of our capacity investments is realized. However, all business lines are expected to contribute to this development. We are not updating our CAPEX expectations beyond 2028, but unlike this period, there are currently no major investments planned beyond 2028. Please turn to slide 9 for a look at the expected CAPEX development. When we updated our medium term financial ambitions for 28 last December, we also outlined our expected capex plans for the period leading up to 28. These are the years in which we will execute our major investment to expand capacity, not only in solutions, but also in applications. For the period of 2025 to 2028, we expect total accumulated capex of approximately 2 billion euros. We have executed according to plan during 2025 and the phasing of capex remains unchanged. This year is expected to be the peak in terms of spend, with 2026 also at an elevated level. From 2027 onwards, capex is expected to gradually decline. However, there may be fluctuations between quarters and years depending on the timing of actual payments. Looking beyond 2028, our major CAPEX expansion projects will be finalized. At this point, we do not have any major investments planned for 2029 and 2030. In the absence of these investments, repair and maintenance is expected to amount around 4% of group revenue measured in standard prices. That said, we will continue to support the business with necessary investments to strengthen and develop our operations further. Please turn to the next slide. In order to secure the best possible execution of the strategy and unlock the growth opportunities in the market, we are changing our organizational structure. This will strengthen our market position and differentiated power cables offering. We will sharpen our focus and secure to have strong capabilities within large turnkey projects across our high voltage factories. Customers will remain at the center as we build on close relationships and through local product teams in our core markets, we secure proximity to our customers and responsiveness to ensure dedicated go-to-market focus. We will target growth opportunities where it will have impact. We will deliver on our high voltage order backlog and finalize the current capacity expansion projects both in our high and medium voltage factories. We will increase our local product capabilities to enhance the focus on grid renewal and expansion projects. Over the last years, we have expanded capacity across several sites and in the coming strategy period, we will enhance focus on increasing our efficiency and competitiveness. Through a dedicated center of excellence approach and a strong link between local product teams and centralized engineering and production, we will drive this approach. At the same time, a central aspect of our strategy is sustainable competitiveness. And with the changes to the organization, we will maintain a high focus on quality and speed to remain competitive in the market. To reflect the company's strategic priorities, we are updating the business lines, focuses and also names. Going forward, these will be transmission, grid solutions and accessories and distributions. Please go to the next slide where we will take a closer look at the changes. With this illustration, we show the changes to our business line structure. Solutions becomes transmission. With the projects we have won in recent years and orders we thereby are going to execute in the coming years, the solutions business line has shifted towards a strong mix of extra high voltage projects. These projects are best defined as transmission. Compared to the current solutions business line, the only difference is that high voltage AC projects moves to grid solutions and accessories. We are establishing a new business line where we combine the HVAC projects both from solutions and applications with the current service and accessories business line. In this strategy onshore extra high voltage and high voltage AC has been identified as key growth segments. where we see potential within our core markets. This is driven by strong electrification, renewable, grid adaptation and renewal trends. Therefore, we establish grid solutions and accessories that can differentiate itself as an efficient and reliable turnkey cable provider across the European markets. The combination of high-voltage AC service and installation and accessories competencies will form a business line with turnkey capabilities and clear focus on realizing the growth opportunities in this important market segment. Following a strategic alignment of our industrial footprint to establish focused center of excellence, the application's business line becomes distribution. This underlines the business line's focus on medium voltage cables in the power distribution grid segment, while continuing the activities within low voltage cables and building wires. Distribution has focused expertise in power cables for electrical grids, renewable power generation data centers and industrial networks. The change to the business lines will be implemented from 1 January 2026 and the reporting in the new structure will commence by the Q1 2026 Interim Report in May. In September 26, we are excited to be able to invite you to an investor day in Karlskrona. Here we will present the details of the charging forward strategy and provide status for each of the updated business lines. On the day, you will also have the opportunity to see the new high voltage factory with your own eyes. We are looking forward to hopefully seeing many of you in Karlskrona to show the world's largest C cable factory. Let us now turn our focus to the third quarter developments. And with that, please turn to slide 13. In Q3, activity levels and solutions remained high and we continued to execute on our high voltage order backlog. Several projects were active during the quarter and operational execution was overall satisfactory. Operational EBITDA improved compared to the same period last year. Applications also experienced high activity driven by continued robust demand in the power distribution grid segment. Combined with the additional medium voltage capacity that came online earlier this year, applications delivered double-digit organic growth and improvement in operational EBTA. Service and accessories continued the strong momentum we have seen throughout 2025, delivering an impressive 61% organic growth and a significant increase in operational EBITDA. This was primarily driven by a large offshore repair job executing the quarter, supported by high activity levels across both segments and solid execution. Let's turn to the next slide for a deeper look at each of the business lines, starting with solutions. In the third quarter of 2025, revenue and solutions amounted to €459 million, up from €429 million in the same quarter last year, corresponding to organic growth of 8%. This growth was driven by continued high activity levels as we progressed through our high voltage order backlog with overall satisfactory product execution. Once again, installation activities were at a high level and our cable-laid vessel NKT Victoria was well utilized. Operational EBITDA reached 74 million euros in the quarter, an improvement compared to Q3 and 24. The margin landed at 16%, up from 15.5% in the same quarter last year, and also improved sequentially compared to Q2 this year. This was driven by sustained high activity levels and a slightly improved product mix among the orders in execution. As a reminder, in a product business like NKT, quarterly margins may fluctuate depending on the facing of the projects. However, the overall trajectory towards our 2028 ambitions and now 2030 is confirmed by this performance. During the quarter, we saw progress across several different projects, including Champlain Hudson Power Express, Hornsea 3, East Anglia 3, Bay of Biscay, Sydlink and Sydostlink. At our sites in Kasgrona and Cologne, the investment programs to expand high-voltage capacity progressed as planned. The same applies to our second cable lay vessel, NKT Eleonora. I'll return to the status of these individual produce later on in the presentation, but the key message is that all remain on track to become operational from 27. Please turn to slide 15 for an update on the high voltage market and our backlog. Firm orders awarded across our addressable market amounted to an estimated €4 billion in the first three quarters of 2025, and as in previous years, this was primarily driven by DC technology. In addition to these firm orders, preferred supplier agreements such as the one we entered in for EGL3, add further commercial momentum. While the total awarded volume is lower than what we saw last year, it remains high in a historical context and underscores the structural demand in the market. Projects are increasing in size, which impact both investment and governance processes. These projects often depend on permits and political decisions, meaning that awards can shift between quarters or even years. Our high-voltage order backlog increased to €10.4 billion, up from €10.1 billion at the end of the first half. This was mainly driven by the firm award of the interconnector to Bornholm Energy Island in Denmark, supplemented by small orders for AC technology. In addition to the firm backlog, we have booking commitments from customers expected to convert into firm orders over the coming years. These commitments amount to more than €3.5 billion. Importantly, the preferred supplier agreement for Eastern Green Link 3 is not included in any of these figures. It will be added to the backlog once a firm contract is signed. The composition of the backlog remains unchanged. Over 90% of our orders are with European TSOs. In terms of application, around 55% relate to interconnector projects and approximately 40% to offshore wind. Together with booking commitments and the EGL3 agreement, our backlog provides strong visibility into the coming years and supports our medium-term financial ambitions for both 2028 and 2030. NKT is well positioned to focus on long-term development and we remain highly active in commercial pursuits, maintaining a disciplined approach to optimize utilization, risk and profitability across our production and installation assets. Our view on market development remains unchanged. For the period 2024 to 2030, we expect awards in our addressable market to average more than €10 billion annually. While short-term fluctuations are natural due to product timing and size, we remain confident in a healthy supply-demand balance throughout the decade. Our expectation that the market will move into a more balanced territory in the 2030s also remains unchanged. Please turn to the next slide for a look at our commercial announcements in the third quarter. During the third quarter, we made two important commercial announcements. First, in early September, we were awarded the high-voltage direct current interconnector between Bornholm Energy Island and Sealand in Denmark. The project with a total route length of 217 kilometers represents a key step forward for key infrastructure in Denmark, Germany, and also Europe. We will design, manufacture and install the power cable system, which is expected to be commissioned in 2032. The contract value is approximately 650 million euros, and this award follows the 2023 award of the connection from Bornholm to Germany, which was a part of a broader framework agreement with the German TSO 50 Hertz. A few weeks later, we announced that we had been selected as the preferred bidder for Eastern Green Link 3 in the UK. This product is a joint venture between Scottish and English TSOs, SSEN and National Grid. It's a key component of the UK's major investment program to upgrade the electricity transmission network and deliver clean, reliable energy through a resilient and efficient grid. For EGL3, NKT will also design, manufacture and install the cable system, which will span a total route length of 680 km, linking the power grids in Scotland and England. Negotiations towards a firm contract are progressing as expected. Please turn to slide 17 for a look at applications. Revenue in the applications business line amounted to €208 million in the third quarter of 2025, corresponding to 12% organic growth, maintaining the positive momentum from the first half of the year. Growth was driven by continued robust demand in the power distribution grid segment, supported by the additional capacity coming online in the Czech Republic and Sweden earlier this year. Development in the construction exposed segment remains subdued overall, though performance varied across markets and sub-segments. Revenue in this area was lower than in the same quarter last year, but stable compared to Q2 this year. Operational EBITDA increased to 22 million euros, up from 14 million euros in Q3 2024, driven by high demand and revenue in the power distribution grid segment. The margin improved to 10.7 compared to 7.6% last year, which was negatively impacted by reoccurring costs related to inventory re-evaluation in SolidAlp. As mentioned, demand for medium voltage cables remains robust, driven by local European TSOs and DSOs, enhancing, upgrading and strengthening their power distribution grids. With the additional capacity added this year, we have been able to meet this demand and support continued organic growth. Please turn to slide 18 for an update on service and accessories. Service and accessories continued its strong development in the third quarter. Revenue reached 98 million euros, 38 million euros higher than the same quarter last year, corresponding to an impressive 61% organic growth. This growth was primarily driven by a large offshore repair job of the Beatrice Wind Farm in Scotland, which was successfully executed and completed during the quarter. Both the service and accessory segments maintained high activity levels and beyond the major repair job, service benefited from ongoing maintenance, repair and installation work, all executed satisfactorily. In accessories, demand remained strong across both medium and high voltage segments. Projects currently in execution within our high voltage order backlog also contributed positively. Operational execution was solid, supporting increased profitability for the quarter. Our new test hall in Alingså, Sweden, is now operational and the additional capacity is ramping up. It's expected to be fully phased in during the fourth quarter of this year. Operational EBITDA increased to 23 million euros, a significant improvement from 8 million euros in Q3 last year. The margin reached 23.4% up from 7.1% last year. This was mainly driven by improved profitability in the accessories segment and the large offshore repair product mentioned earlier. Please turn to the next slide where I will provide a status overview of our investment projects. We continue to make solid progress on our ongoing investment programs to expand capacity and all projects are progressing according to their individual plans. As a result, our expectation of accumulated capex of approximately 2 billion euros for the period 2025 to 2028 remains unchanged. In Karlskrona, multiple activities are ongoing simultaneously across various locations. Machine installations are underway in the tower and other buildings, including stranding lines and conductive carousels. A clear visual sign of progress is the removal of external cranes and equipment on the tower. Dredging of the harbor to increase water depth for NKT Eleonora also progressed, as shown in the top left image. With all plans on track, the new capacity is still expected to be operational from 2027. The construction of our second cable lay vessel, NKT Eleonora, is also progressing as planned. The individual sections of the hull are coming together piece by piece. The aft section construction separately at another shipyard has now reached completion and has been towed to the main shipyard where it will be joined with the front and superstructure. Final outfitting of the vessel will take place in Norway during 26 and in parallel with the factory expansion NKT Eleonora is expected to be operational from 2027. In Cologne, progress on expanding high voltage capacity also continued in line with expectations. Machinery and equipment installations are advancing, and the additional capacity is likewise expected to be operational from 2027. In applications, the construction of additional medium voltage capacity in Assnes in Denmark is entering its final stages. The new facility is now visibly taking shape, as shown in the bottom right image. Following machinery installation, testing will be conducted before capacity comes online in 2026. Construction at the site in Esposende, Portugal, is progressing as planned and the full additional capacity is expected to be operational in 2027. This, ladies and gentlemen, concludes my part of the presentation, and I will now hand over to Line, who will take you through the financials. Please turn to slide 20.

Thank you, Claes, and good morning from me as well. I'll now walk you through the financial highlights for Q3 2025. I'll start out with the income statement on slide 21. Revenue in the third quarter amounted to 726 million euros, up from 657 million euros in the same quarter last year. Organic growth was 13% driven by high activity levels across all three business lines, each reporting solid positive growth rates. Operational EBITDA for the quarter was €119 million, an increase of €26 million compared to Q3 2024. This marks another quarterly record high result for NKT. The EBITDA margin improved to 16.4%, up from 14.2% in the same quarter last year, with margin improvements seen across all business lines supported by strong activity levels. Depreciation and amortization increased by 5 million euros to 32 million euros. This is reflecting our ongoing investments. EBIT landed at 88 million euros, up from 71 million euros last year at the same time. Financial items for the quarter amounted to an income of 1 million, mainly driven by interest income and our cash position. Tax for the quarter was €21 million, up from €14 million in the same period last year due to the higher earning level. The effective tax rate for Q3 2025 was 24%. This leaves us with a net result of €67 million for the quarter compared to €57 million in Q3 2024. For the first nine months of 2025, net result amounted to 178 million euros. Our employee headcount continued to grow, reflecting our ongoing expansions and investments. On average, more than 6,200 people were employed at NKT during the third quarter of 2025. Let's now turn to the next slide to look at the cash flow development. Free cash flow in the third quarter was negative 102 million euros, primarily driven by a negative impact from changes in working capital and continued investments during the quarter. Changes in working capital resulted in an outflow of 51 million euros, reflecting the phasing of specific milestone payments in the solution business line. This development only partially offset the positive contribution from operational EBITDA. Investments during the quarter amounted to 170 million euros. This is consistent with the high activity level across our investment program. The level of investments is in line with previous quarters and we expect elevated levels to continue in the coming quarters. Net cash flow for the quarter was negative 118 million euros. Let's turn to slide 23 for a look at the balance sheet. At the end of the third quarter, our working capital position stood at negative 1.1 billion euros. This represents a slight worsening of the position of 39 million euros compared to the end of the first half, primarily due to phasing of specific milestone payments in the solution business line, as previously mentioned in the cash flow discussion. Capital employed increased by 192 million euros during the quarter, reaching nearly 1.4 billion euros. This was mainly driven by our ongoing investments, as well as the slightly negative working capital position. Compared to the same period last year, capital employees has nearly doubled. Despite the increase in EBIT, ROSE declined to 27%, down from 30% at the end of Q2. Looking ahead, to be mindful of, roasting will continue to fluctuate between the quarters. This is influenced by operational earnings, customer payment timing, and the growing asset base from our investment programs, which will ramp up over the coming years. Our net cash position declined slightly and stood at approximately 650 million euros at the end of the quarter, and we are thereby maintaining a robust financial position. This position is essential for funding our investments and supporting NKT's continued growth journey in the years ahead. Please turn to the next slide for a look at the outlook of the year. Based on our financial performance in the first three quarters of 2025 and our expectation for the remainder of the year, we are maintaining our financial outlook for 2025. However, we now expect to conclude the year at the upper end of the previously communicated ranges. Revenue is expected to be in the range of 2.65 to 2.75 billion euros. Operational EBITDA is expected to be in the range of 360 to 390 million euros. The financial development in Q2 was in line with expectations, and the underlying assumptions communicated in August remain unchanged. This also includes the higher cost base and solutions to support the ongoing investments and production ramp-up. The dilution on group margin in 2025 from these costs is still expected to be slightly higher than their around 1 percentage point in 2024. This dilution will remain or even slightly increase into 2026 as we are actually nearing the ramp up. Looking explicitly at Q4, we don't expect to be able to maintain the EBITDA level seen in the last quarters. There are a couple of things you need to take into consideration. The Champlain project is nearing completion and the activity level and solution will thereby be lower. In service and accessories, we do not expect we can repeat the very good quarter and we do not expect to have a repair job like the one we had in Q3. And lastly, execution always plays an important role and doesn't have an insignificant influence on profitability in an individual quarter. As always, it is important to consider the assumptions behind the outlook. These include a satisfactory execution of high voltage investment and projects across all business lines. stable market conditions for applications and services and accessories, a stable supply chain with limited disruptions, continued access to required labor, materials and services. As a project-based company, NKT is increasingly exposed to production and installation risks, particularly within the solution business. We continuously monitor these risks, which could impact financial performance also right to the end of the year. Please turn to the next slide. Before we conclude the presentation and hand over to the operator for the Q&A session, let me briefly recap the key messages. The financial performance in Q3 2025 was solid. We delivered 13% organic growth and reported a new quarterly record high operational EBITDA of €119 million. We made two important commercial announcements. In Denmark, we were awarded the interconnector between the Bornholm Energy Island and Sealand, and in the UK, we were selected as preferred supplier for the Eastern Greenlink 3 interconnector. We continue to make solid progress on our investment projects to expand capacity in both solutions and applications. The new high voltage capacity in Karlskrona and Cologne remains on track to be operational from 2027, and the additional capacity in applications is expected to come online during 2026 and 2027. Last, but certainly not least, we launched our new strategy, Charging Forward, which will guide NKT towards 2030. Alongside this, we introduced new medium-term financial ambitions for 2030, including organic revenue growth cargo of more than 7% from 2024 to 2030, operational EBITDA of more than 900 million euros and ROCI above 22%. With that, we conclude the presentation, and I'll now hand over to the operator to guide us through the Q&A session.

Thank you. If you do have a question, please press five star. The first question is from the line of Claus from Nordea. Please go ahead.

First of all, congratulations. You can hear my voice. There's been a lot of issues with the connection at least. So first of all, can you hear me?

We can hear you. Not perfect, but we hear you. Yes.

Thank you. Okay, so the first question goes to the whole pipeline, these conditional orders. When should we expect those assumptions being converted to a firm order? And I guess earlier this year, you were more optimistic about the happening this year. Is that still the case? That would be the first one.

Thank you, Klaus, if you allow me to answer that. And with the pipeline, I interpret that you refer to the slot commitments, the three and a half, more than three and a half billion, and also perhaps the supplier agreement or the selection in EGL3. Initially, when we went into this year, I think the original plan was that part of the three and a half would be converted during this year. We did earlier this year also communicate that that may not be the case and that was referencing to natural delays including lack of soil information actually to make that clear conversion. So for now we expect parts of that to be converted during next year. EDL3, as we have said also in the announcement, and I think I also presented earlier now, their negotiations go as planned. But whether those will culminate in the end of this year or beginning of next year, it's difficult to say.

You know, giving you a backlog, you know her anyway. Thanks for the clarification. My second question goes to the new 2030 ambitions. If you look at the rosy target of minimum 20%, you know, you did 27 to 3 and above 30% to date. And I know there'll be more pace coming on. But minimum 2%, doesn't that sound a bit conservatively?

Thank you for the question, Claus. I think it's fair to say that at a ROCE above 22%, we actually consider a very strong level in terms of returns on capital employed for this kind of business also. I think that's That's a good benchmark. What we will look into for 2030 and the years here is, of course, that we will secure, that we will do investments that they are value-accretive to the ROSI, but it's also clear that when we come to a certain level and we continue to invest in both safety and sustainability, for the company as well as others, that there will be choices which may not support an even higher ROCI than the one we now have an ambition around. So I think it's the balancing act on that, but we do expect a very solid return and I do think we can be proud to say that we will be above 22%.

Okay, then just a final question going to service division. Yeah, very strong Q3 and Q2 as well were strong. If we start to put into our estimates that maybe once a year you will have these high activity level pair jobs, how do you see the outlook for the survey vision?

Thank you for the question, Klaus. It is, I think we have also communicated previously and you are also personally well aware that of course the service business line is driven from a revenue and EBITDA perspective out of two different dimensions. And now I put the accessories business line to the side. One is the sustainable business coming from topics like service level agreements, inventory spare part topics. and similar aspects, including also providing support to the solutions business line when it comes to jointing services. This is something where you can have plans, ambitions, and realize them in a structured manner over time. What is more delicate and less easy to plan is, of course, especially the emergency repairs. that come and goes. We have had years with zero offshore repairs and we have had years with an unusual high amount or an unusual potentially complex repairs also then boosting both revenue and EBITDA. I think with with the fact that a lot of more cables are being installed in europe and around the world the number of accidental repairs i guess can also be expected to go up but this is not something that we are planning with firmly this is yet to be seen so we have we have a normal expectancy of a repair rate as we move into a year and it's fair to say that 25 has surpassed those expectations

But, you know, giving Trish, which was not your own, does it mean that you actually are maybe not superior, but, you know, top of the pop when it comes to repairs or about available capacity?

You're asking me and I'm highly biased, Klaus, of course. So I would indeed say that we have a strong offering and also strong ability when it comes to executing repairs that goes for our own cables, but also for cables provided by others. But of course, it's a combination. It's a combination between having the ability and also having the availability to conduct repairs. But typically, this is something where at least we believe that we are strong. Yes.

That was all for me.

Thank you so much.

The next question is from Lars Topham from B&B Carnegie. Please go ahead. Mine will now be unmuted.

Yes, a couple of questions from him. I apologize if... You have already answered them, but the sound quality isn't that good. Looking at your 20th outlook and just doing very simple math on both the 7% minimum growth and the 900 million growth, Minimum EBITDA, that gives me a 2030 margin of 24%. And of course, I know this is not a margin guidance, but can you at least confirm you're looking in margin well above 20%? And is it also fair to assume that solutions will be accretive to that group margin? That's my first question.

Thank you for the question, Lars. And I think you, doing the math, I think you would arrive to something like that. So we are looking into a strong backlog and awards of the recent years that would take us into a very solid space. And that also means that it's a yes to the question you have on the solution margins, because it is a strong contribution into that level for sure.

So we're talking a solutions margin of 20% or higher? Is that a reasonable conclusion?

So we are not guiding on the business line is particularly right. And what we have said earlier, which still stands, is that all business lines will be double-digit EBITDA margin is our expectation. But we really want to, let's say, draw the attention to the absolute contributions on EBITDA. And that also goes for solutions that will be in a high level. So I will not confirm your number, but I will also not... correct you on it.

Okay, that's fair, Lene. Then, a bit in line with this, so if I look at your 20 targets, which still stands, minimum 700 million in EBITDA. So, from 700 to 900 million, so take that as 200 may increase From 2028 to 2030, should I take it that the 900 for 2030 are not based where you expect to be in 2028? This question makes sense. But I should assume 200 in an incremental EBITDA between 2028 and 2030.

I think, Lars, we are not fully sure if we understand the question, but I think as the targets are stipulated, I think that's the right conclusion. More than 700, more than 900, obviously deducing the difference of 200. But I think maybe you're alluding to where do we think we really are, how much above the 700 are we? in our own expectations, if that's what you're alluding to, and to compare with more than 900. And there, I think, as I'm sure you understand, we would defer commenting on that, just ratifying the math that you did just now.

That's perfectly fair. Then I did some reverse engineering on your fully outlook for this year, so assume you reach the high end of both revenue and EBITDA, it would be 671 million in revenue and EBITDA margin of 12.7%. Both would be the lowest level for many quarters. It's something I'm missing that I should be aware of leading to for underperforming all the previous seven quarters or Is it simply an illustration of you guys prefer to be a bit conservative?

Thank you for the question, Lars. And I think there's something very obvious. There's a difference between Q4 last year and this year. And that is the subcontracted scope on Champlain. And I think this was one of the key elements going into... 2025 guidance and it still is for Q4 also a part that you cannot neglect in trying to understand how a solution is going to end up in Q4 2025. So I don't think it's attributable to our style of communication but truly to underlying business activities.

Then a final question. So you mentioned the ramping up costs in Karlskrona, and that hurt margins by 100 bps right now on group level, which just means 150 bps in oceans. You also mentioned that increase. So how should I think of this if looking into 2026?

It's a super good question and happy to answer on that. As you pick it up, as we also communicated it, and I think without being numerically specific for 26, it's very important for us to highlight that, of course, depending on the exact timing that the factories eventually come online and we have more expansions both in Denmark and in Europe, Portugal and Coles Grona ongoing right, we will make sure that we have the operational employees in place and trained beforehand. And that is expected to temporarily dilute the margin in 2026 with a bearing on the EBITDA. And I think it's really important to take note of this element.

And perhaps if I'm just allowed to compliment that comment also with the fact that we talk about 1% roundabout in the report for this year, but we can expect that to increase going into 2026. So I think it is an important aspect that you put the finger on Lars there that we want to get out into the ether.

Okay, thanks for answering my question. Congratulations with an amazing quarter.

Thank you, Lars. Thank you.

The next is from the line of Akash Gupta from J Morgan. Please go ahead.

Yes, hi, good morning. Sorry, my audio quality is also not that great, so apologies if you have answered my question earlier. But two questions from me, and the first one is on visibility, like if you can take revenue and EBT and class in your business plan, can you talk about, because you have a fixed number of capacity and where are we in terms of visibility, like any number on base batching and some of the framework agreements like the DLs and Can you give us some indication on what sort of visibility do you have for 2030? And then for Lina, what's the base case for DNA in 2030? We can then calculate what would be the underlying profit in 2030. Thank you.

Thank you, Akash. And indeed, as you said, the sound quality is not great. But what I understood from your question, and you correct me now, Akash, if I misunderstood it, it's about visibility for 2030, drawing upon our backlog, our order commitments and EGL3. And the response on that from my side would be that, and I will not give you a percentage number here, but what I can say is when I look at the period up to and including 2030, And in that, I include the backlog, the 10.4. We add the 3.5 billion, or in excess of, as board order commitments. And on top of that, EDL 3. I would allow myself to use that we have good visibility in terms of both loading and earnings up until 2030. We are not fully loaded with projects. We still have to win further projects, but we have a good visibility.

And then I can continue on the DNA. And I think what we have said earlier, Akash, is that, or at least we have confirmed that a number coming closer to 200 million DNA in 2028 was around the level you could expect. And then what you know also is that We are running a large CAPEX program towards 28 and with some tools also coming in. So towards 2030, it will gradually increase somewhat also. So I think you need to model a little bit here from that angle.

Thank you. A follow-up on 2028. So I think there was good expectations that you might grade your 2028 as given one of your indicators in transmission. At last time, you gave your 2028 outlook guiding for 18% margin and now guide for 20% margin. So the question is, you know, With 2028, how do you see potential after 2028? Do you think it's already incorporating a solid execution or they'll be obsessed on how you deliver on the end capacity expansion will come online in the next 18 months? Thank you.

It's again, I think the sound is an issue for us, Akash, but I think with respect to the 28 targets, we will commit to what we have in writing and what has been in writing in the past. On your questions, Could there be upsides? I think it is. Also, we have talked about the solutions perimeter varying from quarter to quarter also, of course, being impacted by execution. That can have a positive impact and can also have the opposite impact. So I think there can indeed be an impact. Another impact could be, as we have also flagged before, if we were to be able to to pre-pone the commissioning of some of the assets currently under investment, this could also provide an upside. So I think there can be upsides, but our commitment here today remains as it was yesterday with the written targets that are out there.

Thank you.

The next question is from Christian from SEB. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Two questions from my side. So, Claes, in your remarks to start with, I think you said that the vision behind your 2030 is that it assumes full contribution from your capacity investment. So maybe just exactly could clarify that. And also, Does that mean when we think about years beyond 2013 that in order for you to continue sort of meaningful learning growth, you need investments?

Thank you, Christian, for the question. And the answer is yes. In 2030, we assume full utilisation of the assets which are currently under investment. Beyond 2028, the added utilisation or revenue growth will be primarily coming from the solutions perimeter. Now, having said that, of course, as we've said, there are no major investment projects planned beyond 2028. But that's also not the commitment that it won't happen, neither organically or inorganically. But that is something that we would have to come back to. But I would also underline that there are, of course, also still ways of increasing our value extraction or value creation, and that by means and measures of, for example, efficiencies, which is something that we are pursuing today and we will also keep pursuing into the future. There is the aspect of the more supply-demand situation with the market. If it's more favorable, less favorable, that could also have, of course, also an impact on the earnings beyond 2030.

Understood. Very clear. Then my second question goes to 2026. I guess your visibility for next year will be pretty good. You made it just previously that we should expect a higher dilution from the ramp-up cost. I mean, I know I'm not going to get too guy for 26, but are there other building blocks, a mixed composition of the backlogs like that we should be aware of when sort of doing our 26 estimates?

Yeah, Line, both I think will comment. I think we wanted to draw your attention to the OPEX drag that we feel is highly vital to be taken into account when trying to look at the solutions divisions from 24. Now we are in 25 and then going into 26 before the investment starts to turn in 27. Another piece of information that I would draw your attention to is the margin mix, where there is also perhaps an expectancy that there will be a quicker transition from legacy produce into more recently won produce. And I think we have communicated this in the past, but I just want to underline that again, that the significant transition from legacy produce into more recently won produce will be done in 2027. So I think that's what I would add to the OPEX drag point.

I don't have any further.

So just to clarify, you're saying that when you sort of look at consensus numbers, we're really assuming a bit too fast a conversion of the backlog to high margin projects.

I think I wouldn't comment on the consensus very, but I think to a large degree, you really have to listen into what we try to say now and make sure that the EBITDA, when you look at the total group relative to revenue next year also, that you count in this OPEX draft. I think that's really what we want to make sure.

All right. Fair enough. Thank you.

Next up, we have Ching Wong from Barclays. Your line will now be unmuted.

Hi. Thank you for taking my question. I have one on Q3 and one on the new meet and talk. My three questions about solutions. Did you have any contingency release in the course of aided margin in Q3? Because some of the projects that I think are very close to delivery are still, for instance, having significant price in the presentation. So I assume no release in Q3. Okay.

Thank you for the question. If I just answer on that, I think you know us well enough now to know we don't comment on the project specifics. I think how you should look at solutions execution is overall satisfactory execution of the whole portfolio. And with that also not saying anything about special releases or others. It's a good quarter in that sense.

Okay, that's fine. Maybe also an update on variation orders as well. You get more variation orders in Q4 for this year. I just wanted a sense of whether the guide implied Q4 revenue is not fueled by additional variation orders.

No, and we can confirm it's not. And I think also just to be a little bit more specific, I think we discussed and gave some transparency on variation orders after Q2, because there was a, let's say, over normal level and thereby also creating the financial as you saw them. We are more back to usual levels. We will not have always a very far visibility to variation orders. So, of course, things can change. But right now, we don't sit with something we want to make sure you know about Q4 in this regard.

That's clear. Thank you. When you meet some targets, I think you all kept the leverage ratio below zero. I think, obviously, this can use refreshment risk awareness, but with a radically different backlog and free cash flow generation profile, would you think net cash flow is still appropriate by then?

If just to say a few pointers to the choice of the leverage below zero, it is important for NKT at current and also while we undergo this large investment program to have a conservative capital structure. It's about making sure we have the cash available for the investments, but it's really also in an intense growth period, which started already back in 2023, making sure we have the facilities we need to tender and execute on the project in solutions. This means access to significant levels of guarantee lines and financial derivatives. We need to have a very solid capital structure and thereby the ambition as we laid it forward. We do also have network and capital swings that are not insignificant to our cash position, though quarter over quarter we see it rather stable. But this is also important. So for now, that's the ambition level we have. And then, of course, in the future, it's obvious with EBITDA above 900 million in 2030 and not communication as of this day of a large investment program coming. You can do the math and you can see that the cash generation out there will be at a completely different level compared to where we are now. Very good.

Thank you.

And the last question for this call will be from Chris Leonard from UBS. Please go ahead. Your line will now be muted.

Chris Leonard, please go ahead. I hope you can hear me. Tricking into Q4 and actually probably more into 26, you speak about obviously the dump-up costs sort of intensifying. I wonder, can that be mitigated by the reduction in variation orders that you're likely to enter on next year, which obviously carry, as you said previously, a lower margin? And we're a mix, Edwin, too. So could those two factors of the ramp-ups and the variation orders cancel each other out? What's the outlook there for 26?

Yeah, thank you for the question, Chris. If I got it right, you're reflecting about whether maybe any kind of margin dilution from 25 on variation orders would then be the contrary effect year over year with the possible ramp-up cost. I don't think that's how you should look at it. When you look at 2026 in your spreadsheet, I would just be... Stressing again what we said a couple of times, be very mindful about the ramp-up. That's very important. How variation orders are going to pan out in 26, let's see. I understand your attempt on a logic, but I don't think we can draw the... We don't want to lead you to draw that conclusion.

Okay, great. Thanks for the help. That's it from me.

Okay, I think with that, ladies and gentlemen, we are at 11 o'clock and we want to thank everybody for listening in and for the good questions. And we hopefully will see many of you in the coming days. Thank you for today.