Oversea-Chinese Banking Corporation

Okay, so good morning, everyone. Welcome to OCBC's full year 2023, fourth quarter 2023 results briefing. On our panel this morning, we have our Group CEO, Ms Helen Wong, and our Group CFO, Ms Goh Chin-I. And I shall go from where Chin-I is. Next to Chin-I is Mr Sunny Quek, our Head of Global Consumer Financial Services. And next to Sunny is Jason our CEO for Bank of Singapore. Next to Helen is Mr Tan Teck Long, our Head of Global Wholesale Banking Services and next to Teck Long is Mr Kenneth Lai, our Head of Global Markets. Chini will take us through our results and thereafter we will have Helen and the panel to take your questions. Chini, please.

Good morning to all. and a warm welcome to OCBC's results briefing. Thank you for taking time to join us today. We are pleased to report another year of record profit. With our resilient results and strong capital position, our board has proposed to increase the final dividend to $0.42 per share. This brings our full year 2023 dividend per share to $0.82, up 21% or 14 cents from the previous year. This represents a payout ratio of 53%, which is above our target level of 50%. I will now share the highlights of our results for 2023. For full year 2023, we achieved record income and net profit. In particular, banking operations net profit was at a new high. Group profit crossed S$7 billion for the first time to a record S$7.02 billion. This lifted return on equity, to 13.7%, up from 11.1% in the prior year. Our record profit was driven by three factors. Firstly, strong growth across diversified income streams. Secondly, well-managed expenses. And thirdly, benign credit costs. Income rose 20% to a new high of $13.5 billion. net interest income advanced 25% to a record $9.65 billion. This was underpinned by asset growth and expansion in net interest margin, or NIM in short. Our NIM expanded by 37 basis points to 2.28%. Non-interest income has also performed well, up 7% from a year ago to $3.86 billion. This was mainly driven by higher income from trading and investment activities. Expenses were well controlled. even while we continue our strategic spending to support business growth and invest for the future. Cost-to-income ratio was below 40% this year. Importantly, our disciplined credit practices have kept NPL ratio low at 1.0% and credit costs contained at 20 basis points of loans. On our balance sheet, loans and deposits were both higher compared to a year ago. I will share more detail in the later slide. For the fourth quarter, group net profit was $1.62 billion, up 12% from a year ago, but down 10% quarter on quarter. If I may draw your attention to banking operations, Our performance in fourth quarter 2023 was resilient. Net interest income was sustained at third quarter's record levels. Trading income was comparable to the third quarter, while investment income improved quarter on quarter. Loan-related fees grew with improved corporate sentiments, but these were offset by softer fees from seasonally slower wealth-related activities in the fourth quarter. Allowances in the fourth quarter were largely general allowances set aside with a forward-looking view. However, while the operating trends for our banking operations were resilient, I would like to highlight that the group net profit was lower than the previous quarter mainly due to two reasons. Firstly, lower insurance income as a result of higher than expected claims, and secondly, a decline in the profit contribution from our associates. I will share our financial performance in more detail in the later slides. For the full year, our three key business pillars of banking, wealth management and insurance continued to deliver resilient results. Banking operations net profit rose 27% to a record $6.39 billion. Net interest income rose to a new high from a 37 basis point NIM expansion and asset growth. credit card and loan-related fees were higher. Investment performance also improved from a year ago. Wealth management income totaled $4.32 billion and contributed to one-third of the group's total income. Assets under management rose 2% year-on-year to $263 billion. GE heads full-year profit contribution to the group rose 30% to $636 million, driven by better investment performance. Total weighted new sales and new business embedded value were lower. This was because the increase in sales of regular premium products were offset by lower sales of single premium products. with a favorable shift in product mix to more regular premium products and BEV margin was higher than a year ago. Our business growth was well supported by strong capital, funding and liquidity positions. All regulatory ratios remain well above requirements. These provide us with ample room to drive business growth and sufficient buffer to navigate uncertainties. These also enable us to maintain our high credit ratings. Our strong credit ratings give us greater access to wholesale funding markets. Notably, we issued a Singapore Dollars Additional Tier 1 Perpetual Capital Securities in August 2023, which achieved the tightest spread on record in the Singapore Dollars bond market. Moving on to slide 8 for more details on our performance trends. Net interest income for full year 2023 rose 25% from a year ago to a record $9.65 billion. This was driven by a 5% average asset growth and 37 basis points expansion in name to 2.28%. Margins were higher across all key markets. we benefited from higher interest rates as we continue to proactively manage our balance sheet and funding costs. From the quarterly trend chart, our net interest income had been rising progressively over the course of 2023. Fourth QNIM, was higher quarter-on-quarter at 2.29%, attributable to one-off interest adjustments. Excluding these one-offs, 4Q name was maintained at 2.27%, while exit name in December 2023 was 2.26%. Non-interest income for full year 2023 improved 7% from a year ago to $3.86 billion. Trading and investment income were higher than a year ago. Fee income was slightly lower, largely because of softer wealth fees. I will cover fee income in more detail in the next slide. For the fourth quarter, non-interest income rose 25% from a year ago, driven by improved fees, trading and investment income. Against the previous quarter, non-interest income fell 17%. Fees and trading income were generally maintained at third quarter's level, despite the typical seasonal slowdown in the fourth quarter. From the chart, you can see that insurance income was significantly lower. This was because of higher than expected medical claims. For full year 2023, fee income from credit card and loan-related activities were higher. However, wealth-related fee income remained subdued as customers maintained their risk-off investment sentiments. While fee income was 3% lower below the previous year, we can see from the quarterly trend chart that fee income has improved and trended higher in the second half as compared to the first half of the year. Moving on to trading income. For the full year 2023, trading income rose 8%, driven by record customer flow treasury income. Non-customer flow trading income was also higher year on year. This is despite a decline in the second half, due primarily to declines in the valuation of investments. on operating expenses. Our full-year operating expenses grew 8% from a year ago, led by higher staff and technology costs. We have also set aside SING$9 million for a one-off support to help our junior colleagues better cope with rising costs of living. This will benefit close to 14,000 employees across the group. Overall expense growth was mainly driven by our continued investment in building our talent pool and technology capabilities to support business growth and create franchise value. While we raised our spending in strategic initiatives and capability building, we have at the same time gradually realized cost savings from operational efficiencies achieved through process streamlining and digitalization. These together with our continued cost discipline in discretionary expenses help to contain cost growth. As income growth of 20% outpaced the 8% increase in expenses, cost-to-income ratio improved more than 4 percentage points to 38.7%. Our asset quality remained resilient. Total non-performing assets and NPL ratio have declined sequentially over the last two years. as at 31st December 2023, NPL ratio was 1.0%. Total NPAs were 2.9 billion, 17% lower year-on-year as net recoveries, upgrades and write-offs more than offset new NPA formation. Notably, MPAs in all our key markets have trended lower for four consecutive quarters. Total credit cost for the year was 20 basis points of loans, which is in line with our guidance. Credit costs for impaired loans remain low at 8 basis points. Total allowances for 2023 were $733 million, up 25% from a year ago. Specific allowances of $333 million were largely for a number of corporate accounts across various sectors, with no specific sector stress observed. general allowances of $400 million were set aside on a forward-looking view, mainly to reflect updates of macroeconomic variables in our expected credit loss model, shifts in credit risk profiles, and adjustments to management overlays. For the fourth quarter, total allowances of $187 million were largely general allowances set aside to reflect changes in portfolio profiles as well as MEB updates. The group's MPA coverage ratio was further raised to 151%. We have added more general allowances this quarter, while MPAs have declined quarter-on-quarter. Loan portfolios remain well diversified across geographies and industries. Gross loans grew 2% from a year ago and up 1% from the previous quarter to $297 billion. The increase was led by higher loans in Singapore and overseas markets, including Australia, Europe and United Kingdom as we continue to support our network customers investing across the regions. In 2023, there was sustained momentum in non-trade corporate and housing loans, which more than compensated for weaker trade loan demands. Our loan growth was also supported by rising demand for sustainable financing, reflecting our continued focus in helping customers transition to net zero with innovative financing solutions. This year, sustainable financing loans grew 29% and now comprise 13% of group loans. We are proactively managing our CRE office portfolio. The group's loans to CRE office sector currently comprise 12% of group loans. Overall, the portfolio quality remains sound and was largely secured with an average LTV between 50 to 60%. In terms of geography, two-thirds of this portfolio are in our four key markets, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia and Greater China. The remaining one-third is largely in the developed markets. CRE office sector loans to developed markets mainly comprise Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States. loans to the United States are mostly secured by Grade A office and these are largely to network customers and strong sponsors. We have also taken management overlays to buffer for uncertainties in this sector. Customer deposits were $364 billion as at end December 2023, up 4% year-on-year but down 2% queue-on-queue. As loan demand remains soft, we have allowed the higher-cost fixed deposits to run off, while continuing to focus on maintaining the low-cost CASA franchise. We continue work on winning new cash management mandates to grow corporate operating accounts, offer competitive products to grow customer base, and deepen our retail deposit franchise. Our CASA balances rose 3% from a quarter ago to $177 billion. CASA ratio increased over a consecutive quarter to 48.7%. Group loans to deposit ratios was higher at 80.5% as at 31st December 2023. capital remained sound, with CET1 ratio at 15.9%. CET1 ratio was higher than a quarter ago, mainly due to profit acquisition and lower risk-weighted assets Now in the fourth quarter, the additional operational RWA that we set aside arising from the SMS phishing scam in 2021 has been released. This contributed to a 0.2 percentage points increase in our CET1 ratio. Our capital strength provides us with ample room to allocate resources to support both organic and inorganic growth. our capital strength also provides sufficient buffer to navigate uncertainties while optimising our shareholders' returns. In 2023, we have signed agreements for two strategic acquisitions, namely PT Bank Commonwealth in Indonesia and Amet Life Insurance and Amet Life Takafu in Malaysia. Both acquisitions are in our key markets and complement our businesses and growth plans. With resilient results and strong capital, we will be raising our dividend payout. Our board has proposed to raise our final dividend to $0.42 per share. This brings our full-year dividend to $0.82, up 21% or $0.14 from the previous year. This represents a payout ratio of 53% above our target 50% payout. With this, I end my presentation. Thank you for your attention. I will now pass the floor over to Helen. Helen, please.

Thank you, Xinyi. Good morning, everyone. So nice to see all of you coming up to our headquarters on an important day of our group. so again pleased to report another year of good results and I think these are solid achievements and we delivered our financial targets as planned for 2023 and including I think we talked about three billion additional revenues and we did in 2023 delivered what I described as one sixth of it. So it's quite squarely on 500 million last year. So, and Chin Yeh did mention that we are having record profits two years in a row. That's something that we feel quite proud working together with all the colleagues in the group. These are all possible, of course, because we have strong foundation and including very steady execution of our corporate strategies. And based on the corporate strategy we started to talk about in 2022, we have had a lot of new initiatives and, of course, capturing the flows and also enhancing our streams to serve our customers across the Greater China-ASEAN link. and this is supported by many of our international offices and units as well. So net profit this year, I'm happy to say that it crossed the seven billion mark for the first time. So again, driven by strong income and this is covered by Chini already, so I don't go into the details. Although the first page is quite busy with a lot of messages, but allow me just to go through some of them in a bit more details. I won't talk about where we grow because Jin Yi covered it, but we're happy that as we grow NII on strong expansion in NIM as well. So we benefited obviously from high interest rates, but again from also positively repositioning of our balance sheet and managing our cost of funding. Cost is an important part, but also happy to report that we manage cost well in the inflationary environment. In line with our growth strategy, we invest in talent and technology. Qingjian mentioned we have granted support, a lot of support to our junior colleagues, 14,000 of them, and this is about 40%, more than 40% of our workforce. Those in Singapore, we receive $1,000, whereas the other colleagues in overseas locations, they will have an equivalent amount based on adjusting for their own local market conditions. Credit costs. is well maintained at 20 basis points. And this is with proactive risk management. And this is also amid uncertain macro environment and uncertainties. And this is important to say that we remain vigilant and balancing between margin and also asset quality. in our credit selection. So if you ask me about loan growth, obviously we've done 2% for the year. There are still, in a rather muted loan demand environment, there are still pockets of opportunities in non-trade corporate loans and also our mortgages. Sustainability, sorry, sustainable finance portfolio expanded 29% to $38 billion, as Jin Ye reported. This is against a total commitment of $56 billion. And this is the end of 2023. We surpassed our $50 billion target, which was set for 2025. You may ask me whether I have set new targets. But in the way I look at the rate of growth, I think setting any new targets is to be broken. Then I tell my team, just continue to work. on it and work hard on it. And the key point is to help our customer and to fulfill our commitment on net zero. But I will talk about it a bit later in one of my slides. Just want to mention known portfolio, of course, remained sound. NPR ratio is on downward trend over the last two years and is sustained at 1% as at the end of 2023. I see no particular sector or systemic stress and I'm comfortable with the quality of our loan book. As we have a robust set of results and strong capital position, this enabled us to increase dividend payout this year. Still happy to say that if I compare to pre-COVID for the year 2021. We are now 82 cents is more than 50% above the 2019 pre-COVID level of 53 cents. and this is reflecting our commitment when we set our target to for our dividend policy since last year at the 50% of our profits and we in a way we did 53% last year and we also maintain 53% this year beating our target as we continue to work to optimize our capital to support both organic and inorganic opportunities to drive growth We also have announced the acquisition in Malaysia and Indonesia to strengthen our growth proposition in ASEAN. I'll talk a little bit more about it as we go on to another slide. One thing I do want to share with you, allow me to take some time on it, is our one-group approach. When I first shared our Refresh Corporate Strategy in 2022, I mentioned that one very important factor and focus is to develop a one-group approach. And important to work as a team. As you know, we are quite diversified in ASEAN, and we have strong presence in Greater China, but we have our international network, For example, Bank of Singapore also has a big operation in Dubai as well. So together with Great Eastern and Line Global, we are present in 19 countries. And indeed, how to bring ourselves together in order to serve our customers better that is indeed a very strong pillar for us to continue to execute on our corporate strategy. So last year, we made a significant move. You have seen that we launched our unified OCPC brand, and this is after the last logo that was changed about, indeed, a quarter of a century ago. So it was 25 years ago when we have our last logo, but we have now a uniform logo for all of our banking entities across the markets. So this is accompanied by a new tagline. And I think you have seen it for now and beyond. And we're really talking about how we position ourselves, serving our customers, not just for now, but forward looking. This solidifies our one group approach as we pursue strong growth based on our corporate strategy. And this signals to all our colleagues across the group the importance to collaborate and work together and present ourselves as one OCBC to our customer. And to strengthen our growth proposition, we also launched what we call our PVA. we activate our purpose, values, and ambition statement. And this is, in short, summarize the purpose OCBC plays, the values we uphold to achieve our ambitions. So we have always exist for 92 years to enable people and communities to realize their operations. This is our purpose. Our values are guiding our behaviors and represent what we do and how we do the right things. Ambition is where we're heading towards, and in particular what we have set out in our corporate strategy, meaning to our leading financial services partner, for a sustainable future. So this is what we want to do. In a way, if you look at this slide four, it's nicely summarized our PVA activation. This is our directives and what is laid as a foundation for our future growth and how we serve our customers to fulfill our ambition. I now will highlight some of our strategic actions and achievements during the year in the next slide. In short, we expanded our customer base and enhanced our capabilities and also brought in our products and services. This included the new initiatives that we launched in order to contribute to extra revenues growth. And some of this contributed to what I said, the first year's one sixth of the three billion target. and to accelerate our growth in ASEAN, we also have announced two strategic acquisitions. Just to give you a touch of the details, the PT Bank Commonwealth acquisition, when completed, will help to grow our strong presence in Indonesia through the addition of more than 1 million customers to our network. And the customer base complements us. It is retail and SME customers, and this would create synergies and strengthen business franchise as well. For Great East End, our dear colleagues' announcement of the creation of mMedLife Insurance and AdMap Life Takaful. This has an exclusive 20-year distribution partnership with NBank's network of 3 million customers. It will allow us to expand our distribution network for our insurance business and to capture more market share as well. If I flip the page, that leads to one of my favorite subjects, sustainability. I always say the one group approach is how we work together to grow our business and serve our customer, but sustainability is a non-negotiable pillar of our corporate strategy. It is, as I said, important, non-negotiable, and our sustainability imperatives are laid out in our framework, our sustainability framework. in a refreshed, what we call an ABC approach. So you can link up the ABC to, of course, climate change and environment and bring an impact to our communities as our social responsibility and also conducting our business in a responsible manner as our governance. So more details will be disclosed in quite a lengthy but substantial sustainability report that will be published soon together with our annual report. Very importantly, I want to say again that we reaffirmed our commitment to net zero by 2050. Last year, we unveiled our science-based sectoral net zero targets for six key sectors of our long book. This is progressing well. Of course, we have 2030 middle of the pathway, and we want to deliver updates along the way as well. We also maintain carbon neutrality for all our banking operations emissions since 2022. We'll continue to invest to bring carbon emissions down. We have our customer transition to net zero through launch of innovative products. I particularly want to mention while we service a lot of our large corporate cross-border in different geographies. We also expanded our SME sustainable finance framework to across our key markets. We started in Singapore roughly two and a half years ago. Happy to report that the SME sustainable finance commitment have doubled in 2023 over 2022. so it is to serve our customers across the network and across their different sector segments. Sustainable financing commitments grew 26% year-on-year and crossed the 50 billion mark as we reported and also the outstanding of 38.1 billion is also have grown substantially over the previous years as well. So I have also listed some of our actions to bring impact to communities in the middle part of the slide, and also how we conduct business responsibly. So I don't go into details for that. So my last slide, forward looking or looking ahead. We expect 2024 to be a more challenging year than 2023. It's a lot, it's about uncertainties. And global growth slowdown is anticipated, although we do expect Asia to perform better than the world average. We think there will be continued potential as we optimize in capturing growth opportunities in ASEAN-Quita China Link and our corridor. We remain watchful of impacts from geopolitical, economics, and market developments. We are watchful on how a contour higher interest rate environment may impact our customers, and we stay vigilant and nimble amid the increasingly complex market and geopolitical environment. For 2024, we target to deliver ROE of between 13 to 14%. This include the delivery of 2024 contributions to the 3 billion revenues we announced earlier. We expect a limb in the region of, in the range of 2.2 to 2.25, raise, this is to trend lower from second half, with forecasts, this is our assumption. So you can say, Helen, would that be upside? So it depends also on how interest rates, environment, will actually exhibit in the rest of the year. We are targeting low single-digit loan growth, given the external environment. This is how we see a rather muted demand, but we see pockets of opportunities in various sectors, including energy, power, and utilities. This is always paired up with renewable energy as well, because we continue to see demand of our customers going on the net zero path. We also see demands in inflation-resistant RE segments. This is what we call purpose-built student accommodation, hospitality, et cetera. Technology and digital infrastructure is another area that we see opportunities on as well. We target credit cost between 20 to 25 basis points no indication of any structural weaknesses in our portfolio. We continue our active risk management in 2024. And we commit to deliver the target of a 50% dividend payout ratio. So if we grow well, if we continue to deliver, that would mean a very possible maintaining a good quantum of our dividend amount as well. But we want the different policy to be clear to our investors and our shareholders. So thank you. We now move on to questions that you may have. And together with Ching-Yi and my four business heads, we will take questions from you. And over to Ching-Ching.

Okay, hi. We've got Jayden from Macquarie.

Hi, good morning. Thank you very much for the opportunity and well done on the results. I just have a couple of questions. The first is on the build up in provisions in the fourth quarter. A lot of the comments that you made, Helen and Jinyi, were that asset quality has been quite strong. You know, we've seen four quarters of reductions in MPAs you went through the commercial real estate review. Just wondering if you sort of see any risks and any real reason to take these extra management overlays? And yeah, maybe that's my first question. I'll pause there.

Shall I take that first then? Thank you. Thank you, Jayden, and good to see you. We did some more provisions on ECL 1 and 2, and it reflects on certain market where the real estate market demonstrates some weakness. But when we say, I think it is prudent to do that, and this is not NPRs, but real estate market showing some weakness, right? But in those market, and you say, hey, Helen, why you say that your portfolio is down? because in those markets most of our exposure are on a secure basis and LTV between like 45 to 50 percent. So meaning the book remains sound but we do want to reflect that weakness.

Okay thank you and maybe my next question just on dividends and capital. I think in the slides you showed that on a pro forma basis you've got 15.1 percent CET1 even after the dividend. I think that there was a review to see where the excess capital is lying in all of the subsidiaries. Can you sort of talk a bit about if it's possible to return any of that, or if we should just assume 50% going forward? Because some of your peers are obviously a bit more proactive on this front, so it would just be great to get an update there.

Well, at this point of time, as Ginny and I mentioned, we committed to the 50%. So we did mention in the past we're looking at our subsidiaries. That work is ongoing. not a lot to discuss at this point of time but when we have update we can share with our shareholders and you all but the 15.1% of course we are looking at continue to buffer for any uncertainties and also to support we want to continue to grow organically and inorganically as well so hopefully that would offer a good buffer but Again, looking at our capital position, that work is going on and going on intensively.

Thank you very much.

I think next we will take from the media. Chania is online. Chania from Bloomberg.

Hi, hi, everyone at OCBC. So good to see you, even though it's virtual. Chin Yee mentioned that OCBC is proactively managing commercial real estate loans. Could you elaborate a bit whether there's any plan to foreclose or to sell the property? What's the outlook? Second question, just going back to the 15.1 CET1 ratio from, I mean, do you still see much room for further acquisitions? And what does that number, 15.1% translate to the amount you could do for inorganic acquisitions. Thank you.

Shall we deal with the first one? I think when Jingyi talked about proactively managing real estate loans portfolio is prudent. Risk Management. I did just mention that there are some job reviews that have a weaker real estate market. I'm not saying that we have a weaker portfolio, but a weaker RE market. So we do also, among Jingyi's slides, there is one page that was proactively mentioned the office CRE office sector to provide more information and it does reflect that we constantly look at our portfolio and where we think it's good to support our customers and where we will be playing a bit more careful in committing to a new sector but if you want more details maybe later on I think Thich Long can offer some more views on that if we have questions into certain market yeah

Yeah, no, sorry. Just to follow up on that, because your CIE portfolio accounts for more than 10% of group loans, my question is whether you look to reduce that because it's comparatively higher than peers.

I'll call Thich Long to take that.

For the CIE portfolio, we have to look at the different market. So for example, the market which I think most of the questions are directed to, I presume, is the US commercial real estate market. So for US commercial real estate market, we have stopped financing that for more than a year already, as we foresee a downturn. and that commercial real estate market, because our borrowers are primarily strong sponsors, we work with them. Some of them will top out and some of them will restructure the loan. and the ECL2 is because it's a pro-cyclical accounting standard. So therefore, automatically there will be more ECL2. So we have enough overlays and we are quite comfortable with that. So that's the answer. Now going forward, the interesting question is that we notice some activities, bottom pickers, shall we say, and we will calibrate our strategy when the situation becomes clearer in the overall market.

Thank you, Teiko.

Yeah, thank you.

Chanya, your second question is on capital. And in a way, you asked me what buffer I have for acquisition. I think you have a very direct question. I really cannot share with you a quantum, but we have an amount that we hope will help us if we see the right opportunity. But again, I want to reiterate that well you can look at the capital in a few manners right the first one is we did make a commitment of the 50% payout and we paid 53% so I think that is a commitment we made and we want to live through that a second thing is we do have a growth strategy even though we say the world is uncertain, we continue to actively manage risk. But we say we continue to invest in people and invest in technology. If you talk to Thich Nhat Hanh, he can tell you what sort of sectors he's been focusing on and what people he has hired in order to give us that capability to serve the sectors and capture new opportunities. but putting that aside I mean that's organic but inorganic we made two announcements last year we are we are interested but I'm saying that it has to be the right opportunity coming along Akash thank you thanks for the briefing and taking my questions from UBS

The first one is just, again, on capital management, Helen. Sorry to keep asking the same question again. I think in the last 12 months or so, many investors believe that there's been a material shift in the group's thinking around capital management. And that could be because of some of the changes to the board, changes to the management, which happened over the last few years. and by this material shift, what I mean is a much more aggressive payout policy, a much more pronounced approach to optimizing capital, similar to, let's say, DBS. But your current payout is very similar to last year, 52%, 53%, right around the same ballpark. But it doesn't seem to be coming through in the numbers. So can you sort of confirm or deny these expectations that there has been a material shift or there hasn't been, or the policy thinking remains similar to as it has been in the past?

It's an interesting question. Do we have a shift? Are we more aggressive in communicating and are we taking a much more, as I use the word intensive, a look into our capital position? The answer is yes. We do. But we did just announce a change in our dividend policy last year. And this is the second year in a row. And if you look back to, I did mention that you look back to pre-COVID, 2019 was the height, was the record. Our dividend increase has been more than 50% over that. And if you look back to some of our, most of our dividend payments over the last 10 years before this new communications of our dividend policy, most of the time we were paying on an average of 45, 46% of our profit. So we are in that sense, that's why we said, indeed, we have a shift in communicating better with you so that you can anticipate what we are going to do. So we live to our commitment and we did pay more than 50%. But in the future, will we continue to be proactive? Yes, we are. We did say that we will continue to look at the capital of our subsidiaries. We look at where the growth is going to be and what we're going to do. And so in a way, we hope to have some more, even more proactive and aggressive targets that you can share, but it is not today. So I hope you understand that.

Very clear. Thank you for that. The second question is just on the weakness in the GE income. And I think you mentioned there were some medical claims which led to that weakness this quarter. So just trying to understand if you could share more details on that and if we should be extrapolating this in any way in the coming quarters.

I would say that that happened in the fourth quarter and that contributed to a reduction, but it doesn't mean that it is a phenomenon. But maybe, Hock Seng, would you want to just expand on that a little bit? We have our CEO of Great Eastern here.

I think the claims volume has increased, but I think the fourth quarter itself is sort of stabilized. But I think there are other factors that contributed to some adjustment to the earnings in the fourth quarter. I think you should look at it from an overall year basis.

You shouldn't be extrapolating that weakness into the coming quarters.

Not on the claim side. I don't think you will be seeing an increasing trend anymore. That has been sort of, if you want, stabilized towards the fourth quarter.

Thank you. And just on the net interest margins, could you share some more details? What was the exit NIM for you for Q4? And then what is the latest sensitivity? So every one rate cut, how much does that translate into NIMs? And what are the assumptions? You said rate cuts towards the end of the year, but what is the quantum? Are you expecting three, four for the guidance that you have?

Okay, I'll ask Jeannie to talk about the exit name and the impact, but our assumptions and forecasts are beginning in the second half of the year.

Okay, our exit name in December 2023 is 2.26%. Okay, and then you also have a question on NIM sensitivity, right? So one basis point change in interest rate would lead to about 6 to 7 million impact on our NIM over annualized basis.

Fantastic, thank you.

Over our major currencies, over our four major currencies.

Great. And just last question is on the wealth management side. So in terms of the net new money inflows, has there been any slowdown from the past, let's say, seven, eight quarters, which have been exceptionally strong, right? Six, seven billion every quarter. Did we see any slowdown in Q4?

We see some exceptional, I wouldn't say exceptional, we see a couple clients, some move in the private bank. But other than that, I think we are fine. We see some good changing to some positive momentum. But Jason, can I call you to explain that?

Sure, no problems. Thank you very much, Helen. So in the fourth quarter, we had a couple of situations where clients consolidated their single stock positions, and single stock meaning where they were insiders of, and that was for their personal business reasons, and there were two large transactions that happened. That said, we've had broad inflow from multiple other clients where we've had some good momentum going into this year as well. So we feel positive about this year.

Could you share a number, if possible, for the Q4 net new money so that we can just keep track of the numbers in line with the previous quarters?

I think you see the – I think we have a page that shows the net – I think we see the AUM in the presentation.

Yes. Net new money inflow, which I think was around $6 billion on average. previous quarters. Is it possible to share that number?

Can we take a look at that, Chun-Yi, and we'll come back to you?

Okay, sure. Thank you very much.

Okay, next, Jovi from The Edge.

Thanks for the presentation. Congrats on the record earnings. I'm Jovi from Day Age Singapore.

So a few questions here.

I think my first one is just building on NIM. So your 2024 forecast is higher than your peers. And Helen, you mentioned earlier that you expect questions about upside. So is this target that you've given conservative in your opinion? And could you provide some color on your optimism for NIM this year?

I wouldn't say... Okay, it's not to set a low range in order to overachieve, it's just not. But we did say that this is built on some assumptions, right? And our assumptions is interest rate come down within four cuts from the second half. So that's assumption, and based on our portfolio, based on how we manage our funding base, that's why we come up with the range of 2.2 to 2.25. So that is the assumption. And how do we protect it? Of course, we say important is how we manage your funding costs. So deposits is important. And when sometimes you actually see we taken out fixed deposit when we want to maintain a reasonable, a slightly higher, but healthy loan deposit ratio, et cetera. I mean, this is all the things that we look at by managing. And if we have room to continue to grow our CASA, which we have, and through years of investment in digital, and as we launch more of our digital offering, and like for our retail business, Sunny can talk about how we launch account opening on a digital basis. As we acquire more customers, you build more CASA. So if you are able to achieve that, then you maintain the cost of funding lower. So this is how we think we have done quite well in order to maintain that limb. and we're still positive going into this year, but still reflecting a drop. If you look at the whole year limit of 2.28 and our exit limit of 2.26.

Thank you. My next question here about ROE, I think this improved to 13.7% from last year, but this is still below your year-end target of above 14%, I think you mentioned in the previous quarter. Could you just provide some context for the shortfall? Thanks.

When we talk about 14%, it is a medium to long-term target. For this year, well, if we do well, hopefully we'll reach that. But to look at our capital position and our target revenues, et cetera, in our plan, we think it will land in between that range.

Thank you. So our next question here about, could you just share more about your investment securities? Because I know the net gain for the full year, but in fourth quarter, that gain was down nearly a half quarter on quarter. And looking ahead, what sort of yields are you likely to have on your securities portfolio in 2024?

Ken, can you take that?

Yeah, sure. I assume when you're asking about securities portfolio, the securities that we're investing from our excess liquidity, to give you a background, they tend to mainly be HQLA. The duration of the portfolio is relatively short. In terms of debt securities, our duration is between two to three years. mainly in government securities, placements, NCDs of other banks. In terms of the credit bonds that we have, the majority of the portfolios tend to be rated A or better.

Thank you. Last question here. Just one more about CET1 here. I was going to ask about the dividends part, but I think at 15.9%, this is still higher than your target in the short to medium term for 14%, right? So could you just provide some clarity on how short this runway is exactly when you want to reach 14% and the rationale for keeping such ample CET1 for this year?

I think to repeat that, it is really to buffer for uncertainties and also to have allowed room to grow organically and inorganically. So I think that is quite clear. It would be very difficult to tell you a timeline to say that when we will achieve that. But let's see how things come out this year on our growth, whether we deliver that, and also whether there's any other opportunities coming along.

Thank you.

A few questions. First on the inorganic growth, you touched a lot about it, Helen. Is it going to be more bite-sized like we had last year? Or are you ready for something bigger, something more transformational? And let's say in course of next two years, 24, 25, are there any particular segments or geographies you could just refresh us on what are you looking at in terms of possibilities?

For organic growth, we continue to focus very much on the core markets, meaning again Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, and crypto China. We do see good opportunities of Indonesia as a growth market. and if you look at our Indonesian entities numbers they have been growing quite fast Malaysia we are also looking at achieving higher growth in 2024 compared to the previous couple of years Crypto-China, we still see a lot of opportunity, more onshore, more offshore, less so much onshore China. We continue to see customers interested to bring investments into ASEAN. We have quite good growth in some of the new economy sector. Although this could be a bit more early because it will start from a smaller base, but we do see that it's good opportunity and I think now you may be able to you know supplement a bit on what sectors for example I think we have done some interesting transactions in the TMT front. So we do have identified areas of opportunity. And of course, sustainable financing is another part, right? So customer may not be investing a lot in a high interest rate environment, but they have to green their own portfolio as well. So we are quite good in serving them. That's why we're able to actually build a sustainable financing book up quite rapidly. So I think these are various areas that we're looking at. And we continue to have our customers' interest in investing overseas, and we're supporting them in the UK, in Australia, for example.

Right. Thanks for that. I was also interested in organic aspirations that you may have. especially is it more commercial banking related or is it more maybe private banking, insurance or other bits, parts of the businesses? Any more detail on that would be great.

Okay. May I say that last year, mid to last year, we did announce plans to achieve 3 billion additional revenues. So we will be talking about another next three-year plan, but later in the year. So we'll let you know.

We'll wait for it. Okay. Thanks, Celine. A couple other questions more on the commercial real estate and more Hong Kong rather than U.S. One, before Anything else? Are any of your regulators in the home markets, in the core markets asking you to reassess the loan to values or reassess the net present value of any of the loans? And are they asking you to take hits or probably not yet? Because some regulators in the Western world are asking banks to take a more conservative view and deep dive on their CRE portfolio.

I think Thich Nhat Hanh can cover a bit on the various markets, the performance of the real estate sector. But I don't think there is any specific regulatory change to say that you have to change the way you lend. But the review of how we manage the risk is ongoing all the time. We talk to the regulators all the time in all the markets. Of course, because wherever there is a certain sector that demonstrate more weakness, we communicate with the regulators actively. For example, you change your model of your stress testing, etc., in order to say, hey, this market demonstrates more weakness, but if we stress it even more, how does our portfolio look? So that conversation with the regulators is always ongoing. Thank you.

I will supplement a couple of things. Firstly, I think in terms of our credit policy, we actually update valuation at least annually, if not more frequent. So whatever LTV we have is the latest LTV. in the Hong Kong market our average LTV is around 40 over percent for secured loans and in Hong Kong there's a fair bit of unsecured but those are relating to the very large conglomerates who has a financial resources so generally we have not detected a real issue in the Hong Kong market although we can see valuation being coming down progressively

I think overall we are quite comfortable in the Hong Kong market even at this point in time so I think we are quite well I think our portfolio is very resilient okay thanks can I touch a bit upon the occupancy of your properties so loan to value you don't want to get there right it's more the cash the debt servicing ability Do you see any risks in terms of higher vacancy of any of your properties? And how is that leading to any risks on the ability to service debt to begin with? and also on the loan-to-value, yes, maybe the pricing has come off, but if you actually want to sell those properties, even if these are prime properties today, at a discount, would you have a buyer for those properties, even if you put a 30% discount? So then I'm trying to figure out what is the net realizable value in case things become really tough in some of the markets.

Okay, you asked a very big question over a very big market. But let me try to give you a few dimensions. Firstly, vacancy rate is going up. I think that we can see. The interesting thing about Hong Kong is that we actually have people who are waiting to buy, but the sellers are not there for prime real estate. so that's a very unique Hong Kong problem which suggests our reading is correct there's a lot of holding power to the extent that interest servicing or debt servicing is short actually we find that the strong sponsors actually come in and top up and pay. So it can last for quite a while. I can't predict the future, but it can last for quite a while. And we also have to take into account this year, in the second half of the year, interest rate is widely expected to come down. So that is actually, that will put, I would say, put a flaw to whatever transaction in terms of valuation coming down. So I think this is the take for the larger sponsors the larger corporate banking kind of business. For the SME kind of business, we have always been looking at it based on LTV and also guarantees from sponsors and so on and so forth, even though they are the commercial banking customers. Now, if you think about the whole Hong Kong market, to answer the question is that the way our ECL2 works is that we actually point ECL2 on a pro-cycle basis. So as we see stress building up in the real estate market, actually we increase the provision, even though LTV is 45%. which means that the real estate has to drop quite dramatically, and then we still have reserves for that. So I think that's probably where it can kind of crystallize for you in a short, concise manner.

Thanks. That's very useful. And the last question, if I may, is on net interest margin. Where do you see incremental competition? Is it more on the still the funding side or funding side is becoming easier? And is it more on the asset side, especially mortgages? I see pricing coming off quite dramatically, below 3% in some cases. Do you see that continuing, especially if we expect rate cuts? That's about it. Thank you.

I think look at that question with two answers. In a more challenging market, actually, it is more competitive in terms of the loan margin. You think you reprice it, but because people are, there are more fights for quality assets. So mortgage is one of it, is quality asset, right? So in a way, when we say you work on NIEM in an environment like this, it's really more work on your funding costs. So working on deposits is very important. We have a very balanced portfolio with our large corporate deposits and our SME deposits. We have a big SME base, and that deposit is more fundamentally CASA than fixed deposit. And of course, for our retail portfolio, will also have a big customer base. That would be, I wouldn't say more volatile, but the interest costs do follow how our competitors offer, right? But in a way, building the accounts, in particular what we call working capital accounts, is most important. Because if your customers maintain their working capital accounts with you, they can't just necessarily place them all into fixed deposit to earn a high interest rate. because that's the operating capital. So for us, in the last few years, we've been investing digitally in order to make sure that we capture more of these working capital accounts, and both on the commercial banking side, the smaller to medium-sized company, but also in the larger corporate side, because certain products they need, if we can offer them then they will put their working capital accounts with us and on a regional basis as well. That's why we said this is really part of our corporate strategy. If you can serve your customer across more country, they keep their working capital account with you.

Okay, we have Prisca from Straits Times.

Hi, congrats on the good results. A question on deposit rates. When do you see rates on FD and savings accounts coming down and maybe coming down more sharply to manage higher funding costs. And also a question on real estate. Could you give a little bit more colour on China real estate? And are you worried about that and as well as the impact of the consumer market slowdown on your network clients?

Thank you. Sunny, you want to take deposit rates? I thought you will be referring more to the retail portfolio.

Thanks, Helen. On the fixed deposit front, I think we will always make sure that we are priced very competitively. Of course, we are looking at the cost of the fixed deposit. We actually did a round of fixed deposit cut on the 8th of February. But again, we're just monitoring the rates to make sure that we are always competitive in line with the market. Thanks.

For China, our onshore portfolio remains to be quite small. of the total loan book. And in a way, they are mainly to network customers, meaning customers that invest in China from overseas. So Thich Nhat Hanh, you have something to add on that?

Yeah, as a foreign bank operating in China, our customers are largely only, they never customers and some very large SOE, which is not in the market for any credit stress. So those in the market obvious names I shall not mention, we are not involved.

Okay, Melissa Goldman.

Hi, thank you for taking my questions. Maybe just back in terms of capital again. Sorry about that. In terms of your ROEs, you're targeting about 14%, right? In terms of loans growth, maybe mid-single. So at that pace, we're still building CET1 over time. So how do we think about that when you talk about bringing your CET1 down to 14%? Also, with interest rates coming down, perhaps we might see net income getting compressed over time. So is there any commitment in terms of the DPS itself? I think I'm asking that in relation to a DPS, so dividend per share. So is there any commitment, like you mentioned, you know, 2019 and now we've seen, you know, almost a doubling of it. So is there any commitment that we will continue to see at least DPS flat to up even if net income does decline, if rates do actually come down quite sharply? The reason I'm asking that is also because we've seen Great Eastern and their commitment to actually pay out higher dividend this year in terms of DPS, right? So your subsidiary is really working hard to help. So what about you at the parent level? Is there some commitment as well to work hard to actually help shareholders at this end? I'll just stop here. I have another question later.

Thank you. Thank you for that very interesting question. very happy that our subsidy is very hard, working very hard. And indeed, the Great Eastern did increase the dividend payout. And you look at the payout ratio, it has increased. In a way, that flows through to us, to our profit. In that case, it flows through to our shareholders of OCBC. It flows through. So if we continue to commit to pay 50, and of course, you've seen two years in a row we pay about 50, so I think whatever dividend we receive from a subsidiary should help us to do that as well, meaning that they are not keeping capital there, that they are distributing it up. So I think that's a good sign. As you say, commitment, and we are committing, we're committing 50% at least already, right? And if we see there is ways to actually distribute it in a manner that we think we have planned for, that we cater for things that we want to do and cater for uncertainty then that is always upside from that as I said earlier on if we perform if we do better in 2024 of course based on that 50 it will be a higher quantum too yeah it doesn't mean that doesn't mean that we will not consider keeping a good quantum but it is it's not You either commit that side or this side, right? If we commit 50%, it's very difficult to say that every year you will pay more. Yeah, that means you are committing that you will grow every year no matter what the market conditions is.

So that's your peer, right? Commitment to grow their DPS every year.

Yeah, we have a strong commitment to grow. Yeah.

Okay, then I guess the next question, maybe since Great Eastern is in the room, in terms of your returns, it has been quite an enemy this year. Maybe if there's any comments on what you see for 2024 in terms of your ROEs and any guidance from there would be quite helpful.

Looks like a direct question for you, Ronnie. Ronnie, South Seattle.

Hello. Okay, I think for insurance, as an insurance company, we generally do not commit or give guidance on profit and ROE because our earnings can fluctuate quite a bit due to investment environment. So from Greg Easton's announcement, you see we generally don't give guidance, we don't commit. So I'll just keep it as that.

But you have to recognize that last year is a year of change for the insurance industry with IFRS 17 kicking in. So it's not that easy just to say how that actually changed the model of reporting of profits. And indeed, that's a big change. So with one year of experience of IFRS 17, I think coming to 2024, it will be an easier way to look at how profit change, because last year is just a new way of accounting for it. So we take it as not that easy to explain to investors why profits shift like that. I think we try. I think you all understand that. But I think this year will be a better year to look at how we compare to last year.

right okay and then just lastly in terms of your three billion or top line right you said you achieved one six can you just explain where can we see it and where is it exactly coming from so then we can kind of look forward in 2024 and better understand when you tell us oh you've achieved more like where should we account it for

Okay, some of this is from our investments into account opening. I think we have on one of my slides talked about how many new accounts and how digital we are. So some of those initiatives, as we invest, as we work together, or we launch products across different geography, contribute to that. So to us, of course, we track it, right? We promise it, of course we have to track it. So we don't know which initiatives will bring along what, and eventually the revenues that come from it. so if you ask me hey you said we perform quite well in NIMH so part of it is from there right we perform perhaps better and part of it is from there but if you ask me to break into it that means I have to show you my whole spreadsheets That's not going to be very easy. But we did make our... We see that this is the initiatives. If we achieve it, then this revenue should come in and we can measure it. So that's how we come up with a three billion number. And we did say it will be because you start to invest, you start to build, you start to be acting as one group. So we did say it's 160 for the first year. So that means 500 million. And then it will be one third. the second year of 2024 that will be one billion and then it will be we say that would be one half for the third year that would be 2025 right we're really looking at 2026 of course yeah but in that but in a way it's easy to say those are additional because without the things that we put in I don't think we can potentially generate I mean, if you follow on the old trajectory, maybe the LIM will be lower, maybe some of the fee income will be lower, maybe your loan is even flat growth rather than 2%. So I think I just try to explain it that way.

Okay, Yonghong from Citi.

Hi, this is Yonghong from Citi. To start, we might ask again, what is the Basel IV impact on the initial basis and on a fully-facing basis?

I didn't get it, sorry.

The Basel IV impact your capital ratios on a transitory basis and on a fully-facing basis?

So on Basel IV or Basel III reform as we call it, that's expected to provide an uplift during the transitional period of up to 2% point to our CET1 that's transitional when you know that will slowly erode upon the transitional period because of the implementation of what we call the output floor based on the revised standardized approach right so upon full implementation our CET1 capital adequacy ratio is expected to still remain above our 14% target

Okay, so would this 2% eventually become neutral or it will be still net accretive to your current capital position? Would this 2% slowly fall to zero?

Yeah, because the uplift up to 2 percentage point, that will slowly erode as the output fall kicked in. So it will not be accretive? Yes, it will not be 2% all the time. It will fall back down to above our 14% target.

All right, given looking at your launch growth guidance, low single-digit ROE, low teens, I think your RWA growth will be quite limited. At least in your transitory basis, you'll be comfortable with your CT1 ratio at 17-80%.

I think, Jin Yu, you can explain that a bit further. Because this year, we still have some optimization. So part of that growth in CT1 is from some of the capital optimization and if you take away that, that means our growth will take up some of our capital, yeah? So I think Chi-Yi maybe you can cite one or two example on the capital, the RWA optimization that we have achieved.

Yeah, we have been, you know, conducting RW optimization over the years. And in fact, in 2023, we did have quite a sizable optimization whereby the single premium insurance financing sort of portfolio were optimized to AIRB approach and that's where we actually realized the savings in terms of RWA of five to six billion. So and that this optimization over the years right was the reason why our core equity tier one has been going up you know all this while But now that most of the optimisation has generally been already executed, going forward the RWA growth will track the loan growth as well as the impact of the Basel III reforms with the floor kicking in over the transitional period.

Okay, got it. Maybe just a short-term strategy. Given the uncertainty of China recovery in the long term, we obviously hope for a good, nice China recovery. But at least in the near term, what is your game plan? Are you going to be more aggressive for growth in ASEAN?

China, we do see some signs of potential bottling out of the current more negative sentiment. But having said that, of course, we remain vigilant on the market. But that doesn't stop us to continue with our corporate strategy because we're focusing, we think we have the right to win to link up China with ASEAN. So if you look at our growth of our China business, a lot is offshore, meaning we are serving customers that are investing in this region. When they come to invest in this region, they need to set up companies. They need to start account with us. They need to put the money in. They need to build up what I call the working capital account with us. they need the ethics, they need to start to have some trade facilities. And if they further into looking into buying something, then we will be financing and advising them. So I think that trend is on and is still on. And I think we have growth quite substantially in serving the Chinese companies going this way. With the fact that we have to increase the size and the capabilities of our China business offices in the ASEAN countries. We have to build up the team as well. So that reflects, actually, opportunities are still there.

Okay, got it. Maybe just a small follow-up. I think just looking at your loans, I think the only country that's growing is Singapore. I think it appears that you are saying that you are still capturing that cross-border flows from China into ASEAN. I think looking at your ASEAN loans growth, I think it is really quite muted. But I just want to understand where are these translating to your numbers?

you if you look at constant currency growth um our some of our centers indonesia is actually going quite fast the long book grow high single digit and if you look at uh hong kong last year i think we have some um some growth as well so it's it's like as a singapore market sometimes you see it growth it's not potentially entirely singapore names it could be in external investors coming to singapore setting up shops here But of course, we did grow our mortgage locally as well. And in a way, we support a lot of Singapore companies going overseas. So if you see our growth in London, it's potential Singapore companies doing things in the UK as well. Or we have investors going from Hong Kong to Australia, for example. who look at infrastructure investment. So these are the various examples. So that's why it is important that we can link up everywhere of our people so that we can offer our solutions to our customers as a whole. And loan is one thing, but loan brings along a lot of ancillary. I think that is what is important.

Okay, got it. Thank you.

I believe there are no more questions. On that note, thank you very much for joining us this morning.