Orlen Sa

Good morning, everyone. Please welcome to the presentation of Q4 of 2025 Financial and Operating Results of Orlen Group. We are sitting here in Warsaw in Orlen headquarters together with Sławomir Jacek, Component CFO. Konrad Włodarczyk, IR team, Marcin Wiechota, IR team, Damian Wieczorek, head of controlling. My name is Jakub Frejlich, I'm heading investor relations. We're going to have a presentation that will be followed with the Q&A session. Without further ado, I will now hand over to Sławomir, please. The floor is yours.

Thank you, Kuba. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's my pleasure as always to present you fourth quarter Oren financial results. And I will start by saying that it was absolutely a very good quarter for us and that the whole year 2025 was very good. So if you look into slide number two, where we present the main financial indicators, we delivered a beta-LIFO in the fourth quarter of 12.2, and altogether almost 42 billion polis lotus for the full 25 year. And I will just add one remark, if we assume the same macro conditions for the past years, as we were operating in 2025, definitely that was the record high year for Orlan. We delivered very robust cash flow from operations, 12.9 in the fourth quarter, all together 47.4 billion poris lotis. We continue our capex program, so 11.5 in the fourth quarter, all together 32.6 billion for the full year and what's very important our net debt position is very very strong namely is a negative meaning cash flow positive of one point i mean cash position of 1.4 billion polis rotis so now let's move to slide number three where we present operating parameters As you know, we operate in upstream and supply downstream energy consumer and products. So let's start with upstream and supply. The market environment was unfavorable for us, meaning crude oil price and gas price was lower in the fourth quarter as compared to last year. However, we continue production of crude oil and gas at the same level roughly, but we increased gas share of one percentage point. And what's very important, we increased our sale of gas of 44%. Basically, half of this increase is better volumes on Polish market due to the weather conditions. And the second half is seizing opportunities on German market by our trading branch in Germany. Basically, the spread was favorable, so we took this opportunity to increase the sale. If we move to downstream, downstream environment was favorable. As we know, refining margin and differential altogether almost doubled as compared to last year. Petchem a little bit better. It's, of course, too early to say that the market environment in Petchem is going to be better. However, this is a positive signal, I believe. Altogether, we have crude oil throughput of 96% utilization, so it's very good, 100% in our Polish refineries, and this led to increase in the wholesale, if you will, increase of 5% year-on-year. Slight decrease in petrochemical, but this is, as we all know, due to the situation in the pet chem environment. As regards energy, from the market environment perspective, energy prices increased. And what's very important, we increased electricity generation, heat generation and electricity distribution and gas distribution. As you can see, effectively 18%, 2%, 5% and 3%. So those are very good results from energy sector. As regards consumer and products, market environment from the consumption point of view was favorable for us. Basically consumption increased in gasoline, diesel, as well as electricity and gas. So as a result, retail gas saved by 4% and retail electricity saved by 8%. So now let's move to slide number 4, where we present a beta delivered by each segment. So this slide absolutely proves, and our results in the fourth quarter and the full year 25, prove that we build a very diverse, a diversified operating model that gives us resilience in this challenging macro environment. So starting from the fourth quarter, abstinence supply, 4.2 billion for Islotes. That's lower than last year. However, last year it was in much better macro environment with much higher gas prices and crude oil prices. So you may say that this year, this quarter, fourth quarter, this year is a kind of normalized EBITDA. In downstream, increased by 2.7 billion, so we achieved 3.7 billion in the fourth quarter. This is a result of more volumes, as I described earlier, and better refining margins. In energy, slight increase of 100 million. That was basically due to the higher distribution EBITDA and the production, higher production was offset by higher CO2 costs. So as a result 100 million increased. As regards consumer and products 1.2 billion delivered in the fourth quarter. This is a kind of normalized level because last year it was negative 200 million but that was due to worse market environment and at the same time there was one of, like, purchase price allocation that decreased the result last year. But what's very important, if we look into the full year, on the right-hand side, upstream and supply delivered 16.2, so 2.3 billion less than last year. As we described, lower crude oil and gas prices, downstream increased to 9.5, due to refining margins and volumes, and energy increased by 1.6 to 12.5, and consumer and products delivered 6 billion for its lot. So altogether, very diversified and really resilient business model. If we move to slide number five, When we present cash flow for 2025, that was absolutely great year for us, we delivered 47.4 operating cash flow. You may of course say that a few billion polis lot was a kind of extra money we generated due to the fact that crude oil prices and gas prices dropped. But now that it's 47.4 billion, and we spend this money for investment programs for 2.5. We paid, as we remember, six lotto per share dividend, which was 7 billion for his lotto. So altogether, we managed to decrease net debt by 8.5 billion. So as I said at the beginning, our net cash position is 1.4 billion dollars. at the end of 25. What's very important for us, we keep investment grade ratings, Moody's H3 stable outlook and Fitch Ratings BBB Plus stable outlook. If you look into slide number six, we not only generate very good cash flow, but of course we have very strong balance sheet and diversified sources of financing, so we are very positive as regards looking ahead because we know that we have quite significant investment program in place. However, our balance sheet is really strong. We present here diversified sources of financing. So basically we have credit and loans, but we have all different kind of bonds as well. Euro, green, Euro, US and corporate bonds. And so 25.1 billion gross debt at the end of 25. If we move to CapEx, Slide number seven. So here we present our realisation for 2025 as compared to plan 2025, and I will start with that. Maintenance was rationalised, I would say, so 400 million less. In upstream and supply we communicated early that we moved gas ships to 26, so that was roughly 1.2 billion, and we stopped some upstream projects in Norway and Poland, so as a result 2.9 billion less capex spent in upstream. In downstream, 400 million less. That's basically our investment in Lithuania, hydrocracker. That was, you may say, moved to 26 as well. In energy, we relocated capex from upstream and supply and downstream to energy partially, so that's why we spent more on solar projects of 0.6 billion and CCG CCGT plans in Gdansk and Grudion of 0.2 billion. If we look into our plan, but this is our basic plan, so of course subject to any rationalization and reallocation, so in the base case We plan to spend 36.3 billion Polish zlotys. Maintenance, similar level to 2025. And of course, safety of our production assets is our key priority. However, this is the area definitely we can focus on as regards rationalization. Upstream, very similar level like 2025. So 7.8 billion Polish zlotys. So exploration and production projects in Norway, Poland and Canada. We'll continue that. In downstream 8.9, so this is an increase of 2.3 billion poris lotis as compared to last year, I mean 25, so In this amount, 8.9, the highest amount, as you can imagine, is Nowa Chemia. This is roughly 6.1 billion polis lotis. This is our base case. And then we have a few projects in downstream business, like HBO in Gdansk, or hydrocracking in Modrzejka, this rapeseed oil pressing plant intention altogether this gives roughly 2 billion 2.1 billion so you may say that like five biggest six biggest projects contributes to this to this amount and then energy as you can see energy is the highest the highest capex in all four segments and this is due to the fact that as you know first of all we put a lot of emphasis on modernization and expanding our gas and electricity network in this regulatory business phd and energy operator and the total capex is 6.2 billion then we continue for CCCG projects, and this is roughly 2.5 billion. So altogether, and then if you add on top of this wind and solar, you will end up with the amount of 9.8 billion. As regards consumer and products, 900 million, you may say this is evenly spread across three priorities we have in place, meaning expansion and modernization of fuel station network, Extension of non-fuel retain network and building alternatives fuel network immobility. So, now let's move to the last slide of my short introduction. This is outlook for 26. Here we present a few priorities. This is not the complete list, of course, because we are a very large business, so we have a lot of projects and a lot of priorities. However, let me start by saying, and we group those priorities into three categories, meaning investment, operations and finance. As regards investment, of course, our key priority is to continue our growth projects, however, we will put a lot of emphasis on budget discipline and project management excellence. definitely we're not in the past years very good at that and impairments we are posting is a kind of evidence maybe i will say that this quarter we posted more than 3 billion impairments 2.2 is for new chemicals projects 0.3 is for upstream and 0.5 is for retail in austria so basically another quarter with impairments however We are aware of that and we need to focus on this budget discipline to deliver projects on time and within the budget. The second priority here is, of course, the biggest investment we have in place, which is new chemicals. I can just confirm that we are in the last phase of the updating integrated schedules and creating final budget budget and signing the agreement with general contractors. So once this is ready, we'll communicate to the market. I would not give you a precise date today, because this is subject to corporate approvals. However, I can just say that this is top priority. So it should be a question of weeks rather than months. So once we are ready, we will communicate the details. And what's very important here, we not only continue the CAPEX program, but step by step we're commissioning our assets, so 26 should be the year when we complete Baltic Power, the first offshore wind plant, we'll complete CCGT in Grudion and HBO in Płock, so step by step this huge CAPEX program we have will be concluded. If we move to operations, This is absolutely our priority as well, to strengthen our operational excellence, to create a resilient and agile business. We are a very large enterprise, so it's difficult to be agile, but we try to be as agile as possible. Market environment is very challenging, it's very dynamic, so we need to be ready as a company to have, first of all, resilience. And this integrated business model proves that we are resilient. and then we need to be agile so that we can navigate in this macro environment in the best possible way the second point is here secured and diversified sources of hydrocarbon supply meaning crude oil and gas 26 is going to be the first year without hydrocarbons from Russia, so really this is our focus. However, I can confirm that we are prepared, secured, we proved this in the past quarters, so we have diversified sources of financing, we have term contracts, spot contracts, so we are absolutely on the safe side here. And then focus on maximum asset utilization, 25, it was a great year for us, 96% utilization in refinery, and webcam assets however this year we plan to have these quite big shutdowns maintenance shutdowns in czechia and in poland so you may expect that utilization rate will slightly drop however we are doing everything so that we take much out of our assets Now let's move to finance. Of course, our financing position is very strong. However, we are not just sitting, we are revolving our credit facilities. So one of that is 2 billion euro. We are in the process of finalization and we are arranging 2.5 billion euro using export credit agencies facility for new chemicals projects. And what's very important, this is the last point from my side, we are absolutely aware that our impact on macro environment is very limited. So we need to navigate in that environment. So our focus again is on market risk management. very dynamic from the commodity and from the financial standpoint, meaning crude oil, gas prices, products, effects, interest rates, CO2. So all those factors will be taken into consideration and will react accordingly to the situation. So that's all from my side and we are ready to answer your questions. Thank you.

Yes, thank you very much for this quick presentation, as you probably have noticed. We went through one of the best quarters in organ history within minutes for the sake of saving the time for you to ask questions. As usually, please, the floor is yours for the questions. I will refer and name you. according to the order you raise your hands. So, the first for the questions is Łukasz Prokopik from Bosch. Please, Łukasz, the floor is yours.

Yes, hello, can you hear me? Yes. I've got two questions. Congratulations on the very good results. I know it's kind of early, but looking forward into 1Q26 results, how would you describe reaching a similar EBITDA or even higher, between 12 or 13 billion EBITDA? Is it realistic given current macro? That's the first question. And the second question concerns the market consensus, the BTA, the one we see in Bloomberg. It's 37 billion for this year. What is your comment on it? Thank you.

Thank you for your question, of course it's difficult for me to comment the precise numbers, because those are confidential information, so please allow me not to deliver your precise answer. I can just give you some kind of my impressions, so we all know what's the macro in the half of February, so basically half of the quarter passed, so we may say that refining margin plus differential dropped to 9.7 USD per barrel, so this is, I would say, normalized levels, so I would not expect that this is something extraordinary. Basically, we are rationalizing refining margin and differential, so this is slightly positive as compared to last year, however, very negative as compared to the fourth quarter last year. From the Petchem margin, slight increase, as compared to last year and slight increase as compared to the fourth quarter, so PET can slightly better. Crude oil, crude oil higher than fourth quarter, however lower than the first quarter, so as you know, gas price is lower, Henry Hub's threat versus TTF shortened, as you know, so a lot of factors that impact our performance, so From the consumption point of view, as we all know, the gas consumption is higher. Electricity as well. So mixed views, I would say. So I would not give you a precise answer whether 13 million beta is the right assumption. We'll see. We still have six weeks to go. And as regards full year, I will give you a similar answer, basically. In the base case, we should assume that macro environment is not going to be S-grade, S-25, as we know, so refining margins rather down. Crude oil, subject to geopolitical tensions, generally mixed views on crude oil, so if from the geopolitical point of view situation is stable, we may assume crude oil price going down, but if the situation, especially with Iran, current situation with Iran is going to be tense, we may expect crude oil price going up. gas prices in the base case as we all know rather down electricity prices rather down so macro environment in the base cases i'm saying we are prepared for for being lower than last year but we are doing everything which is in our hands to improve improve these operational indicators and from that perspective you can be sure that We absolutely focus on operational excellence, delivering capex on time, and we will bring the budget. Of course, we have these shutdowns, refinery shutdowns, plant every four year shutdowns, so utilization rate in our refineries and pet chem plants, you should assume slightly lower. So, definitely can be more challenging 26 than 25. But we'll do everything possible so that the result is as great as we can.

Okay, thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you, Łukasz. Next in line, Piotr Dienciowski from City. Please, Piotr.

We can't hear you, Piotr. It doesn't work.

It does now. Oh, sorry. uh good good morning everybody uh thank you for for opportunity to ask questions so i have a couple of them so first of all can you please explain what is uh because on the charts i don't quite get the difference between your operating cash flow and your bta because you also pay taxes. I looked into your cash flow statement. There's like a reversal of provisions, which do not find reflection on the balance sheet when you move from that position. So can you really say what happened, why your cash collection is significantly stronger than the BDA, given the taxes that you pay and so on? Because if you simply deduct the taxation from your cleaner BDA, then know we are more than 10 billion above that level so that's a question number one and then a second follow-up to this one how shall we think about uh dividend in light of this operating cash flow does this uh um your normal dividend policy apply or not and a final question from my side is what kind of implication you see from the ongoing um slovakian hungary situation where there is no crude supplies to that refine this uh Does it have a positive impact to you? Can you benefit from it or what's the effect? Thank you very much.

Okay, thank you. Thank you so much. As regards the first question, really you touched a very important point because I agree with you that in the normalized situation, you may assume that we delivered eBTDA. then we pay tax and this should be operating free cash flow. However, there are always those, some women call it one-off, however, this is subject to the hydrocarbons, basically quotations, so we have changes in working capital, and then we have changes in the provisions in the obligatory reserves, because obligatory reserves are included in this other. We have hedge accounting, we have CO2, so this is really complicated and we need to deep dive as regards that probably offline, because this is not so simple. You said perfectly, if you look into our financial statements, page number nine, which is cash flow from operations, you have a lot of positions here that should be explained. So I can, at this stage, I can just say that I agree with you that I would not say this is one-off, but this cash flow in 25 is a kind of inflated by decreasing the pricing, by this hedge accounting, etc. So in the long run, you should expect our cash flow from operations closer to our EBITDA, what we

Is there any risk of a reversal of this positive 1-0? So the kind of a cash flow, let's say you generate whatever the consensus says, 37 billion BDA, but you're operating cash flow for next year is significantly lower. Is there a risk like this? And then how you smooth it out in light of your dividend policy, because that is linked to operating cash flow line.

Yes, as regards changes in the working capital and changes in the obligatory results, of course, this is subject to the quotations, so if this is going to be reversed, let's see. If in the base case we assume that those prices are going down, that means that we should we should have extra positive effect of working capital, not negative. As regards to those provisions, I would say that part of this, you may expect some negative, but I would not say today definitely what kind of amount we can expect. But definitely I can repeat again that I treat this cash flow from operations in 2025 as a kind of inflated a little bit due to the fact of this working capital and one of its items. But as regards dividend policy, so as you can imagine, we look carefully into the cash flow statements long run rather, I mean long run in a sense, 25 and 26. So dividend policy is valid. I can just confirm as always that we should pay dividend. And it's too early today to say what's the final recommendation of the management board. This is going to be delivered in April once we present the final full-year financial statements. But definitely cash flow is good. So it's a question of 26 forecasts and we will prepare that and then we'll propose. And as regards Slovakia and Hungary, as we all know, they try to deliver crude from the Mediterranean Sea, so I assume that in the base case they will manage to deliver this crude and they will operate as they operate. Currently they use reserves, so at this moment we don't see a very significant turbulence in the market and I guess they will manage to cope with it. Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you. Krzysztof Kozieł, PKO. PKO. Krzysztof, we can't hear you. Hello, can you hear me?

That is fine, yeah. Okay, good morning everyone. I have three kind of questions, if I may. The first would be about Iran, the conflict that may happen or may not happen. But my question would be, how the potential escalation of that conflict affect your imports of Saudi crude and Qatari LNG? I mean, in such scenario would switching to mandatory strategic reserves create any operational challenge for you?

Thank you for the question. Of course, we are observing the situation how this will definitely affect if something happens. Crude oil quotations. As I said in my presentation, we create this diversified model. So we have 10 contracts, but our 10 contracts in crude oil is basically 50%. So we have spot contracts. So we are very active on the market. So just in case, I believe we build this competence and we are ready to reallocate from different sources. From the gas point of view, we have, of course, the contract with Qatar, but this contract is just 2.5%. 2.7 billion cubic meters. So from the total delivery from us, of course, this is a significant part, but not as significant that we cannot replace from other sources. So we build our competence on LNG market. We know that 26 the next volumes will come from the second venture global contract, which is Black Amines. So I believe The last quarters, the last years prepared us for any turbulence on the market from the crude oil and gas prices, I mean gas delivers.

Can you say, I mean, what's the share of Saudi oil right now in your feedstock? Is it 50%? Did I understand that correctly?

It's less. It's less than few, I assume like 40%, 40 plus.

Okay, thank you. The second question would be a follow-up on that venture global situation. Could you provide us an update on the current status on the dispute regarding the Calcassier project, because recently Repsol lost the proceedings with Venture Global. I mean, how is it going in your proceeding? I mean, when we can expect any ruling? And what would you expect about that Black Beans LNG train? Do you expect the same situation as in Calcassier, that you're not going to receive any any deliveries for the first part of the functioning of that new project.

Thank you so much. I can confirm what we said last quarter, because nothing new basically happens in the meantime. So the hearing is expected in the fourth quarter this year. And then you need, I mean, there is always a time, like half a year for final verdict. So we expect the final verdict, like in 27, end of first half of 27. So this is a kind of base case scenario. We know that the rulings are different, reps or loss, BP1, so we will see what's going to happen with us. As regards the information from the lawyers, we are fighting for positive outcome and there is probability that the outcome will be positive. However, let's wait for the final case. As regards Plaquemines, Venture Global confirmed that probably of quarter fourth quarter this year, they will start the first deliveries out of this contract of 5.4 billion cubic meters, so we may assume that in 27 we should have a kind of full deliveries from those two venture global contracts, 2 billion from Carcassier Pass and 5.4 billion from Plaquemines. and then in 2027 we will start 1.3 from SEMPRA, so basically 2027-2028 will be the full years of deliveries of LNG from US. So now you received the full amount of deliveries from Carcassier Pass or you're waiting for... Yes, so we started last year, as you know, 2025, and this year you may assume that the whole 2 billion from that concept will be delivered.

Okay, thank you. And the third question, if I may, will be on capital allocation, because in recent days your CEO indicated that the updated strategy will include substantial capex dedicated to the energy transition still. And in the light of the ETS reform and declining carbon allowances, allowance prices, Could those plans be adjusted? I mean, how flexible are you in this area?

Of course, we look into those regulations and they impact us significantly, so still we don't know what the final outcome is going to be i would just say that energy transition is something which is our priority and this will continue our capex program was set in the strategy announced last year in january so we will look carefully into all those projects we will reallocate amounts if those are necessary however today it's too early to say kind of what kind what kind of rationalization, what kind of reallocation and what kind of final target is going to be in place. I would just maybe add that in the strategy last year and here in this presentation, as regards CAPEX for 26, we don't include M&A, I mean, we don't include M&A in 26. In the strategy, there was quite significant part of M&A. So, I believe that this M&A is a kind of flexible part of our spending. So, this is something we look carefully from the organic CapEx, growth CapEx. I believe in the next three years we are quite done. We reallocated these CapEx properly. However, of course, always rationalization and optimization is in place if feasible.

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you.

Thank you, Krzysztof. Anna Kiszmeria, UBS, please, the floor is yours. Please unmute yourself.

Anna, can you hear me?

Yeah, now it's fine. There is a little bit of a delay. A couple of questions from my side. First, I want to follow up regarding the EBITDA outlook for this year, but more from the new projects that will be on stream. What contribution do you expect? Second, in terms of your CAPEX and M&A comments, on the CAPEX side, how much do you think could be rationalization for 2026? Like, where could you see the scope there? Also, you mentioned HVO in block CAPEX for the year, though I thought that the project should be already in the starting up mode, so what is left there in terms of the CAPEX? And probably the last one is just a quick clarification check regarding the dividend. I think last year the recommendation took place already with first quarter results in February. Why there is this change in recommendation now in April? Thank you very much.

Okay, thank you so much. So as regards CPTTA and new projects, please bear in mind that Arctic power is going to be in place like in the base case in September, so only fourth quarter will be a kind of extra ABTDA delivered. As regards CCGT plan in Grudion, we are targeting end of the year. EBITDA delivered in 27 from that project. HVO, yes, we are finalizing, it's basically close to being operational, so first quarter should be operational. So we don't deliver precise numbers as regards EBITDA contribution for the full year, but definitely a few hundred million PLN should be added here. As regards capped rationalization, this is ongoing task. We don't provide this number yet, however, I believe in our strategic update, this is my personal view, we should have this component of OPEX and CAPEX optimization program and we should deliver a concrete amount we would like to get out of those programs, so I'm not in a position to tell you today. And as regards dividend, it's difficult for me to comment. Last year I was not there, however, I believe during my past experience 28, 20, I mean, 208, 217, that was nine years. So, I believe we always delivered dividend together with full financial statement in April. So, that was the practice I used to operate. So, I believe this is a good practice as well. This is closer to general assembly and this is close, we know, we have more visibility as regards 26. So, So, that's my view, yes.

Thank you, Anna.

Thank you. We will now turn to Michał Kozak, Trigon, please. We can't hear you.

Okay, maybe right now?

Yeah, that helps.

Okay, thank you. I have two questions, if I may. The first one, could you explain the changes in operating cash flow? When we look at provisions amount, you reported some reversal in probably CO2 provisions in the last quarter and huge gain on investing activities. These two components total over 7 billion zloty in the last quarter. Do you think that it's worth reporting economic net debt just like domestic utility companies did one year ago, probably.

As regards to this operating threshold, to some extent I answered some, I gave some clarifications at the beginning of our call, so I can just repeat what I said there, that we have those items we need to investigate deeply, however this is more offline discussion. As regards this Are you referring to this line, loss on investment activity, which is included in the cash flow from operations statement?

Yes, this is gain, not loss.

gain, because this is like reversal of impairments, because this is impairments we are creating, so I said in the fourth quarter there was more than 3 billion, so actually 3.4 billion impairments, so that's why this is non-cash, we are reversing this.

So reversing provisions is connected with CO2 probably.

So if you start, if you look into our graph, which is EBTDA, or EBITDA LIFO, that means this EBITDA LIFO is already excluding impairments. So that's why this line is basically not shown during our waterfall.

Thank you. Maybe the last question. In your previous strategy, did you assume such a large TGE versus TTF gas price spread? which has doubled year-on-year basis and is having a positive impact on your domestic upstream operations and I think wholesale gas trading. Do you believe that this spread should be sustained going forward?

This spread, we know what's the market environment currently as regards Henry Hub and TTF. And in the next few years, again, the base case based on all the agencies, we should expect this spread to drop. So this is something that may impact, of course, our EBITDA, definitely. So you expect the spread to drop going forward? Yes, as compared to 25 to 26. I mean, it's going down and now we will stabilize. If you look into our macro slide, you can see that Henry Cavs increased from 57 to 77 and the TTF dropped from 196 to 142. So definitely the spread shortened.

Thank you.

But as regards TGE, because you asked about TGE as well and TTF, right? But as regards TGE, TTF, of course, this is subject to, I mean, the market is volatile in the weeks like January this year. and we are paying basically more for interconnectors, so in the long run the situation is quite stable, so the difference between TTF and TGE is basically obligatory reserves we need to keep, and the interconnectors of this network we need to pay for. And this is more kind of stable, this is like between TTF or THGE and TGE is like 10-11% difference, and in the months like January this year, of course, this widens, but you should assume this is absolutely temporary.

Thank you.

Thank you, Michał. We'll now be going back to Piotr Dzięcioloski, who has a follow-up question.

Yes, because there was nobody in the line, a few people I decided to ask a follow-up. Can you please provide us a bit of an update of what are certain M&A processes you've been doing? We've seen the changes in the group hours of the management board. How does this impact your acquisition of this polypropylene installation? You haven't succeeded the disposal of the uh parcel you need to push the polska and historically you were talking also a lot about the acquisition of upstream in norway infrastructure in lng and the reason i asked about all this m a on the net basis is that it seems that you um you can't lever up the company quickly enough. And therefore, how would you assess the risk of a possible tax on all that? You know, the state budget is a little bit in the tight situation. And then if they have a company, we've seen situations like this in the past, they were really trying to grab a little bit of money here and there. So just wanted to understand how you see the M&A CapEx or the

amounts how you go can you really spend or buy something in a sizable amounts going forward and on these three particular cases like what happened thank you okay thank you so mna in mna we are very cautious as i always repeat because this is flexible flexible part of our spendings and depending on the situation on our cash flow position so currently Currently only GAP is on the table. As you know, we extended our offer to purchase polyolefins in Polica of 1 billion 23 million, so this is something we communicated, this is valid and this is the only feasible M&A which is currently in place. However, we are looking, of course, in upstream segment into any possibilities, nothing concrete on the table, but if you assume that we should increase our production of of hydrocarbons, it's not that easy to allocate organic growth so that significantly we can increase our production. So if we still continue that strategic move, we may consider an M&A. But as I said, may consider, there is nothing concrete. And similarly to our renewables projects, so like wind, solar farms, this is something we are analyzing as well, and if there is a good opportunity, we may allocate some resources in Poland for Polish project as well. So this is from M&A point of view, I believe, the situation, but as regards your second part, Of the question, you can imagine that I'm not in a position, it's difficult for me to comment on any possible moves in that area.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you very much. You are all more than welcome to have follow-ups. But now we'll turn to Giuseppe.

We can't hear you.

Okay, we're having some technical difficulties, so we'll turn to Fyodor Varek instead, and we'll come back to Giuseppe in a minute.

Fyodor? We can't hear you. Do you hear me? Yes, thank you.

Thank you for the opportunity. I would like to go further for Michael's question about the supply and upstream segments. Because I understand, looking at TTF gas prices, this year should be under the pressure from the prices downgrading. I would like to ask you about forces or your actions that can extend the segment BDA this year, for example from trading and another perspective. What can we expect this year from the segment besides the lower gas prices? Are there any Thank you so much.

So, when I close my first part of the presentation, I indicated at the last point that market risk management is in spotlight. So, of course, we know the forecast, we know the pricing, so we are not sitting just and waiting, we are hedging. Any negative impact is not going to have a kind of full 100% in EBITDA, because partially we are hedging this. We don't provide, of course, the details of our hedging policy and our hedge position, but this is one area we can work on. Of course, if there is a drop in crude oil prices and gas prices from our production assets, apart from hedging, this is very little. we can do, so basically trading, active trading, this is the answer for the drop in crude oil prices and gas prices in the upstream segment. And of course the second part, as you know, we communicated that once we have LNG from the US, we don't always deliver this LNG to Europe, we find new markets in Asia, so we deliver to Japan, We delivered LNG ship to Japan, for example, last year, so this is something we are considering as well.

Thank you for your questions. Thank you all for active participation. It seems that the questions and especially the answers were exhaustive enough, because we see you that there are no further questions. So, thank you very much for the call, for active participation. As you have noticed, probably, we're a little bit turned to your side to give you more space for active discussion. We'll keep on doing that. So, thank you very much for this participation, for the Q4 results. We will see you on the road. For the sake of information, we will be hosting meetings with Polish buy side beginning of March. We will be on the road with international investors starting from the first conference meet March. And for the time being, we kindly invite you to the press conference call that will be held in already 20 minutes, including the CEO of the company, Ireneusz von Farah. Thank you very much for this call and see you in the Q1 conference call in May.