Storebrand Asa Unsp/Adr

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Storbrand's fourth quarter result presentation. As usual, our CEO, Odd-Arrel Grefstad, will present the key highlights of the quarter, followed by CFO Lars Løddesøl, who will dive deeper into the numbers. At the end of the presentation, participants in the team's webinar will have a chance to ask questions. Details on how to join the webinar are found on the investor relations website. But without further ado, I give the word to our CEO Odd-Aril Grefstad.

Thank you, Johannes, and good morning, everyone. 2024 was a record strong year for Storbrann, and I'm very pleased to see that we gained trust among new and existing customers. During the year, we delivered around 84 billion in return to our customers and supported about 200,000 customers in insurance-related cases. We also completed value-accreditive transactions during the year, including the sale of Storbrann Health Insurance, as well as the acquisition of the Danish infrastructure business AIP and our own headquarters. We aim to be a leading player within sustainability. And once again, Storbrann is the only Norwegian company present on the global Dow Jones Sustainability Index in 2024. Now, let me give an overview of the highlights of the year and the fourth quarter. We delivered a record high result of 5.9 billion for the full year, with an operating profit of 3.2 billion. Adjusted for the sale of Storbrann Health Insurance, we actually delivered in line with our guiding of 5 billion, one year ahead of plan. The record-strong operating result was driven by double-digit growth across the business and strong cost control. On the financial result, the gain from the divestment of health insurance and supportive financial markets contributed positively. Storbrand's cash-based earnings for the fourth quarter amounted to 1.1 billion. up by 46% year on year. This is a strong result despite reversal of performance fees and effects from runoff losses and some large losses in insurance. We are pleased to announce a step up in dividends to 4.7 krona per share. an increase of 15% from last year. I'm also very pleased to announce that we have received approval from the FSA to conduct 1.5 billion of share buybacks for the full year of 2025. The share buyback program will be initiated today and executed across two tranches of 750 million each. This means that Storbrann pays out close to 100% of the result generation from the business from 2024 and at the same time have funded strong double-digit growth in all business areas. If results continue to grow as planned, you should expect high growth in dividends going into next year. Storbrand's long-term ambition is to perform annual share buybacks totaling 12 billion by the end of 2030, of which 3.5 billion has been executed at the end of 2024. The share buybacks come in addition to increasing ordinary annual dividends. We continue to consistently execute On Storbrand's strategy to take three commercial positions in the market we operate in. A, to be the leading provider of occupational pensions in both Norway and Sweden. B, to be a Nordic powerhouse in asset management. And C, to be a fast-growing challenger in the Norwegian retail market for financial services. These positions are strengthened by our strategic enablers, people, sustainability and digital frontrunner, together unlocking additional growth. I'm very happy once again to deliver double-digit growth across the entire business. This stems from both structural growth, increased market share, and supportive markets. Now, let me dive into our growth areas and share some highlights from the quarter and the year. Within UnitLinked, reserves grew by 21% in 2024, supported by strong growth in both our core markets, Norway and Sweden. Storbrand aims to be a digital front-runner. We are proud to once again receive the highest customer satisfaction score and elected the best digital solution in the Norwegian corporate pension market. During the year, Storbrand won tenders with a total asset management of 4.5 billion in the market for public occupational pensions in Norway. The volumes will be transferred during the first half of 2025. This market is a growth area for Storbrann and our aim remains to grow asset under management within public pensions by 7 billion annually from 2023 through 2025. Within asset management, asset under management reached a record 1,469 billion during the year. up by 21% compared to the end of 2024. The strong growth was helped by supportive markets, positive net flow, and the acquisition of the Danish infrastructure business AIP Management. In the quarter, we delivered a positive flow of 16 billion. Highlights include 7 billion from institutional clients and 7 billion from the pension business. Let me zoom out and look at the flow over time. The development of net flow in asset management has been consistent and strong over the last years. This stems from group synergies with the structurally growing pension business, providing a steady positive flow. This is an important competitive advantage. Secondly, our asset management business has a strong offering across asset classes and is able to win mandates among a broad range of external customers. Storbrand aims to be a growing challenger in the Norwegian retail market. In 2024, insurance portfolio premiums grew by 19%, while market share within P&C increased to 6.9%, up from 6.4% last year. The work to strengthen our position in retail savings continues. Kron had the highest customer satisfaction in the market for a second year in a row. And it's pleasing to see that high customer satisfaction has led to a 97% increase in asset management for the full year. In retail banking, loan volumes were up by 13% in 2024, and we continued to strengthen our position as a full-service retail provider in the Norwegian market. Strong growth, coupled with disciplined cost control across our business areas, has yielded a robust earnings momentum. The group result for 2024, excluding the gain from the sale of Storbrann Hett Insurance, stood at 4.9 billion. This represents an annual growth of more than 30% the last two years. We maintain our result ambition of more than 5 billion for 2025 and will continue to implement measures to achieve the targeted profitability level within insurance. In parallel with our focus on growing earnings, we have a long-term share buyback commitment to shareholders. The share buyback program we have completed since 2022 have had a positive impact on earnings per share, lifting annual EPS growth to 38% during this period. In summary, 2024 was a year of record strong performance and strategic progress across the group. And I would like to thank the whole organization for their effort during the year. Moving forward, we will remain focused on delivering value to our customers and shareholders. We are on track to deliver on our financial targets for 2025, as communicated on our Capital Markets Day in 2023. And with that, I give the word back to you, Johannes.

Thank you, Odariel. Now let's take a closer look at the numbers. Lars, please go ahead.

Thank you, Johannes. The quarterly result of 1 billion and 65 million is up 46 percent from last year, but somewhat weaker than planned. The shortfall is due to seasonally weak insurance results, relatively weak performance in some funds, and a rise in long-term interest rates causing lower assets under management and negative market-to-market returns in fixed income investments. The momentum into 2025, however, is strong with continued growth, price increases flowing through in insurance, and record AUM levels across the business. The solvency margin is up 10 percentage points in the quarter, with higher owned funds and lower solvency capital requirements. The higher interest rate level has had negative impact on the fourth quarter results, but a positive impact on solvency and the running yield in our fixed income investments, indicating stronger returns in coming years. To pay dividends and fund share buybacks, we need solvency and liquidity at the whole core level. This year, we have around 4.2 billion in net remittances from subsidiaries. Excess capital released from the guaranteed products are emitted through high dividends from the life company. In 2024, capital from insurance and banking operations has been consumed by weak results in insurance and growth in the bank. These subsidiaries shall also provide capital and dividends in the coming years. As you can see from this picture, we had around 3.2 billion in liquidity as of the beginning of 2025. With strong remittances from subsidiaries, we will be able to pay growing ordinary dividends and execute our share buyback program. The expected cash generation through the year secures long-term predictability in our capital distribution, in addition to strategic flexibility for creative bolt-ons if the opportunities arise. At our Capital Markets Day in December 2023, we predicted an ability to generate 18 percentage points in net capital from operations, and that we would spend 12 percentage points on dividends and share buybacks. In 2024, good results and mergers and acquisitions contributed more than that, strengthening the solvency margin to 200% at the year end. When we deduct the entire share buyback plan for 1.5 billion for 2025, the solvency margin is 195%. The solvency margin improvement in the fourth quarter has been positively impacted by increasing interest rates, favorable developments in regulatory assumptions, volatility adjustment and symmetric equity adjustments, and strong cash earnings. With the current level of solvency, buffers and interest rates, the solvency margin is robust to fluctuations in the financial markets. The top line growth for the full year was 12%. The insurance result is up 46%, but it's still well below the plan for 2025. Operational cost is up by 5%. leading to an improvement in the operating result of 49%. The financial results, including the gain from the sale of store-bought health insurance, are strong, leading to a record group result of 5.9 billion. Excluding the one of sales profit of just over 1 billion, the group result would have been 4.9 billion, close to the 5 billion goal for 2025. The quarterly results were up by 46% over the last quarter in 2023. For 2025, we expect operational cost to increase by the inclusion of AIP and investments in further growth. The target cost level for 2025 is 6.8 billion adjusted for currency effect, performance fees and special items. We aim to grow the bottom line and fuel the growth with improving cost income levels. The tax charge for the quarter was 36% and above normal level due to currency movements and asymmetry in how taxes calculated on assets and currency hedges. For the full year, the tax charge was 15%. The low tax rate was caused by the sale of Storebrand Health Insurance, which did not incur tax, and lower taxes in our Swedish operation. Our tax guidance is maintained at 19 to 22 percent. This table shows the same numbers as on the previous page, but split into the business line savings, insurance and guaranteed. Storebrand's front book continues to grow strongly, while the guaranteed back book shows stable results. The improvement in the full year result for other is caused by the sale of store-bought health insurance. There is satisfactory development in all business lines within savings. In Unit Link, there is strong growth and margins are stabilizing. For 2025, we will see the full effect from the AIP acquisition, which is expected to add more than 300 million of fee income and have a marginal positive earnings contribution for the year. Within insurance, the combined ratio for the last 12 months has fallen to 97%, down from 102% last year. We have booked runoff losses and large losses in the order of 100 million in the fourth quarter, making the underlying frequency loss ratio better than the published numbers. Still, the full year improvement is in line with previous communication. With implemented measures, we maintain our guiding for a combined ratio of at or below 92% for the full year of 2025. Despite strong profitability measures to get back to the targeted levels, it is pleasing to see that the churn is within normal variation and that the growth in premiums and market shares continues. The growth story of store-bought insurance moves on. In the last two years, the growth has come from both price increases and market share gains, and we will maintain a balance between growth and profitability to return to below 92% in combined ratio. Most renewals occur in the first half of the year, meaning that we expect the benefits from the significant price increases to be fully reflected in the coming quarters. In guaranteed, the results are satisfactory. The guaranteed reserves as a percentage of the total continue to fall. Within municipality pensions, we won all but one tender last year. Four and a half billion in reserves will be transferred to Storbran in the first half of 2025. We still wait for the final ruling from the EFTA surveillance authority, the ESA, but we do have indications that it's not too far away. We deliver improvements in profit sharing in Norway and Sweden in line with levels communicated on the Capital Markets Day in 2023. StoryBrand has ambitious sustainability targets across the group. It will take too much time to go through this now, but you can look forward to a comprehensive reporting in our annual report, which will be published in the middle of March. With the results we present today, we have good momentum in the group and are well on our way to deliver on our 2025 ambitions. And with that, I will hand it back to you, Johannes.

Thank you, Lars. We are now happy to take questions from our audience. Please use the raise hand function in the team's webinar to be placed in line to ask a question. To give everyone an opportunity to ask questions, we kindly ask you to limit yourself to two questions at a time. And the first question comes from Michele Balatore in KBW. Please go ahead, Michele.

Yes, thank you for taking my question. So the first question is about the savings segment, in particular the asset under management movements so in in terms of net flows what are the kind of funds that are or products that are attracting more you know that are more appealing and if there is any preference in that regard from you in terms of, you know, where the money are flowing, if you prefer them to, you know, to go somewhere else, in terms of, you know, the customer demand in general. And the second question is on slide. Yeah, slide 23. So about the profitability in in insurance. I mean, so now you are a 97, so 4Q was 100% combined ratio. What keeps you, you know, confidence in just one year to reach this 90, 92% guidance? Thank you.

Thank you very much. If I start with asset management, we see strong flow both from the internal asset management, especially from our life insurance companies in Norway and Sweden, but also strong external flow. And we have seen the level of external money versus internal money has increased over time. It's more than 50% external flow. asset management. And I think what has been very successful with Storbrand over the last years is that we have built up this alternative offering around private equity from Kubera, from now the acquisition of IP for infrastructure, or a strong setup for real estate both in Norway, Sweden and Denmark. And the combination within alternatives has really been strong for the growth and also for keeping up the profitability in the total offering. Then again, of course, we have all the bread and butter solutions that we deliver across the Nordics. And also, of course, our position as a sustainable pioneer that has had some tailwind over the last couple of years. But anyway, it's still a position that we gain money on. So I think that is more or less what we see on asset management side. Lars, should you talk about insurance?

Yes, I can. So thank you for the question. On the insurance side, we in Norway or in the Nordics, there's typically fluctuations from during the winter. We have more disability, we have more cars crashing, we have more houses burning. The fact that the combined ratio for the fourth quarter was 100, you have to look through that for the full year kind of results. And for the full year, we were at 97, which is actually a straight line from the 102 we had last year to the 92 that we aim for in 2025. Furthermore, we are implementing very strong cost and efficiency measures, but also pricing measures, which increases the prices. And most of the renewals are happening in the first quarter. So all of those price increases have not flown through in the numbers that we present today, but will flow through into the numbers we present in the first quarter and second quarter. So through both efficiency measures and cost measures, as well as pricing increases, we are quite confident that we will be back into the 92 level for the full year. And as I mentioned again, there will be negative seasonal effects in the fourth quarter and the first quarter in Norway. But then we expect better results in the second and third quarter. So we're aiming for the average for the full year to be at or below 92%.

Thank you. Thank you, Mikael. We have a next question from Johan Strøm in Carnegie. Please go ahead, Johan.

Thank you, Johannes. Very much appreciate the slide that you gave on remittance, but I'm still wondering if you could give us some more comments around the discussions that you had and why we're not seeing a bigger dividend payment this year. Do you have any limitations on the whole core level for gearing or liquidity at the moment, or is it just a sort of desire to be on the conservative side with 200 percent solvency ratio? And then secondly, The 5 billion of public occupational pension contracts that you want during 2024, is it possible to say something more of the potential earnings contributions from this, perhaps on a profitability level, when this comes into full effect? Thank you.

Yeah, let me start on dividends. As we said, you both have to look at, of course, the solvency. That is a very strong number. And you have to look at the liquidity when you are deciding on dividends. And we are very pleased to deliver now 100%, close to 100% of the results this year in dividend, growing dividends now steadily more than 15% over years. And also, you know, that yes, there has been a gain on the sale of the health insurance company, which gave 1.3 billion, but we have also used 1.9 billion in buying our headquarter and also buying AIP. So altogether, we feel that the combination of paying 100% of the annual result in combination with fueling the strong growth of the business that is around 20% growth. It's a strong message about the dividend for this year and also showing that we will be able to have predictability in paying steady growing dividends going forward. So that is very much what we have been viewing and discussing when we have given this dividend in top of the share buyback programs.

If I may draw like a little bit of the long picture, you know back in 2016 when Solvency II was implemented we had a low solvency, we had low liquidity and now we are building up a stable you know like year after year We are stabilizing the business. We are reducing the risk in the business. We're increasing the dividends. We have the longest share buyback program probably of any company in Europe. So we have created a credibility and the predictability over time. we want to maintain that predictability and not have high dividend one year and then have any limitations on dividend the following year. We want to maintain that long, strong growth story.

I agree, Lars. And of course, having this liquidity we now have also gives us opportunity to, if we have market crashes or we have some issues There will still be liquidity to carry on with our story around dividends and share buybacks if we have a small tailwind in the market or effects that comes in the market. So that's why we feel that having around 3 to 4 billion in liquidity, 1 billion of them is debt financed. is quite a good place to be to be able to fulfill our obligation both to of course the growth in the company but also to our shareholders.

So not building a war chest but building predictability in our capital distribution programs.

I think on the public sector, I can start on that. And what we have said is that you should expect somewhere in the same margin as you see on unit linked. That's on the top line side. And going into this year, we have already, you know, we have already taken much of the cost here. So it's not going to be incrementally so much more cost. So you should expect those 5 billion to come in with the unit linked margin roughly into the top line and then some additional cost.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Johan. We have a next question from Jan-Erik Gjerland in ABG. Please go ahead, Jan-Erik.

Thank you for taking my questions as well. The first one is on the following up on Johan's question on dividend. You show a very strong growth in earnings of 33% and you all just lift the dividend payment of 15, which is sort of long term in trajectory with what you should expect. This is so that you could have sort of upped your limits now to get closer to the 100%. And do you think you will come above 100% of cash earnings at any future time here when it comes to paying ordinary dividend on top of the 1.5 billion, which you have sort of been guiding through? So that is my first question. The second one is on cost. Did I hear you that you guided on 6.8 billion of cost guidance for the year? And it just includes on the full effect of the AIP transaction as well as the income is around 200 million. So thank you for that.

Yeah, following up on the dividends. Well, once again, very pleased to see close to 100% payout on the ordinary result. And of course, what we have been able to do now is year by year to take more than the annual result from our life insurance company. This year we have a dividend of 1 billion on top of the results in the life insurance company. And we expect to continue taking out more than the annual results as we see the guaranteed book of business are trailing off the years to come. And based on that, you can easily see that we will have payout ratios above 100%. Of course, everything needs to be cleared with the FSA, but that is what we see from our numbers and from our predictions.

Just a follow-up on that, because your growth on dividends is, as I said, just 15% versus your earnings are growing more than that. So is that the earnings growth what we should look for for increase in dividend, or is this 15% steady grow what you want to do going forward?

I think we are pleased to now see that we have been able to deliver an annual growth rate of 15%. But if we over time, of course, see higher growth rate in the result than 15%, you should also expect us to see dividends increasing from this percentage because we are at a stable level now from on cash and of course we are not building these watches as Lars said so build based on the growing results you should expect parallel growing dividends.

Jan-Erik, on cost, we included a picture in the appendix of the quarterly presentation on page 31, which tries to illustrate this in more detail. But you are right in we are including about 300 million from AIP in the 6.8 billion. And I should also emphasize that we anticipate AIP to contribute positive on the bottom line. So about 300 million in extra cost, but somewhat more in income. And then we've added on inflation and then we are also investing in further growth. As Odaril has mentioned, we have double digit growth in many of the areas that we work in and we are adding some cost to fuel that growth. But as I mentioned also, the cost income in the business overall should continue to improve going forward, i.e. that the cost that we invest should be met with increasing income in the different business areas. And we follow this very closely in the group in order to make sure that it comes through.

Thank you. Thank you, Jan-Erik. We have a next question from Hans Rettedal Kristiansen in Danske Bank. Please go ahead, Hans.

uh thank you for taking my question so uh just going back to the cost guidance of 6.8 billion um specifically in the asset management segment uh just looking at the scalability there so you have a cost income for 2024 of 66 which is down from 70 i think in 2023 uh baked into that number of 6.8 billion What do you think we should be expecting in the asset management segment on cost income?

I can start a little bit on it. So what you will see is that there's kind of a division here that what comes in on the alternative side have much higher income and also not as low cost income as the index near asset management. So it means that things that comes in from Kubera and IAIP will have a higher cost income all else equal than what comes in an index. So it depends a little bit on what is growing there next year.

Yeah, it depends a bit on the mix of course, but overall we expect to see lower cost income going forward compared to what we have seen so far. Still decline in the cost income is what we also plan for in our asset management business.

Thank you. And then my second question was on the guaranteed business. The fee margin there in Q4 is dropping down to 51 basis points, I think, whereas you've guided sort of 50 to 60 basis points. So is the trajectory that it's been following now up until Q4, is that what we should be looking at going forwards as well? Or is there anything extraordinary kind of happening on the fee income side in the guaranteed business in Q4?

So, as we mentioned on the third quarter, we had last year and in the first half of this year, we had income from some pension funds that we had acquired and built into the portfolio that gave some extraordinary support to the earnings in guaranteed. So that has now we don't have that kind of income in the third quarter and the fourth quarter Furthermore there has been quite weak risk results from disability in some of the product lines there as well and also from the Swedish business the results on the risk side was lower in the in the fourth Quarter so overall think the fourth quarter was a weak one we should see some improvement into next year and when we continue to to bid for pension funds that we take over and built into the portfolio for scale measures that will also give support from time to time thank you very much thank you hans we have a next question from farooq hanif in jp morgan please go ha go ahead

Hi, everybody. Thanks very much. My first question is on the unit link business. So you've had, in terms of premium growth in Norway, it's still very strong, but it's more like single digit now. Sweden continues to be double digit. And you also made a comment about the margin reduction stabilizing. So just for the unit link business, in terms of sort of modeling the future, do we think those kind of trends will continue? So slowing in Norway, but still very strong in Sweden. And can we assume that the fee margin pressure is now kind of dying down a little bit in that business? Um, and the second question is going back to insurance to deliver that 92%. I just want to understand the moving parts a little bit better. So, um, you you've had very strong, obviously volume growth, but also pricing growth in the top line. So can we assume that that will also continue or do you, is there a risk that volume gets hurt by your pricing measures? Um, and then I guess, um, you know, related to that, yeah. What, what, in terms of war and often large losses, can you give us a number in the, in the 90s, uh, 97% that you've had the combined range so that we can take that out, I guess, from the numbers as to, to find a base level. Thank you. Thanks very much.

Should I start a bit with UnitLinked and Lars Kjetil do the insurance bit? I think we see very strong underlying growth both in Norway and Sweden when it comes to UnitLinked and I would say especially in Norway because you have a younger population in the product in Norway compared to has been around for a longer time in Sweden. So that means that we have more paying in and less paying out for pensions actually in our Unitlink product in Norway. So that means that we still believe double-digit growth in the Unitlink product. Then we are also ramping up our offering in the own choices within the Unitlink that should give us also better growth in not only the corporate pension part of it, but also the own choice market within pensions. So we expect also to take a further share out of that that can give us also better premium growth in Unitlink going forward.

On the insurance side, Farouk, I want to maybe start with the fact that we have been growing quite quickly and quite fast for a number of years and we maintain a strategy in order to continue to grow. When you grow, the first year premium you have to pay commission to brokers and you have usually some kind of a deduction on the fee for the first year. uh we and also the first year customer tend to have slightly higher claims ratio than other customer groups so there is no deferred acquisition cost and we have no deferred acquisition cost so everything is charged so growth has a cost and that's why we have a higher cost ratio than some of our competitors due to this growth then the moving parts in improving the results from 97 to 92 As we mentioned, we had some runoff losses related to the the floods and torrential rains in 2023 that came into the fourth quarter and we had some large losses that were outside of the normal number of large losses in the fourth quarter that reduced the result by approximately 100 million in the fourth quarter standalone. This means that the underlying combined ratio for the year was somewhat lower than 97%. Then we are implementing very significant price increases. The whole market reprices in the excess of 20% due to the claims development and claims inflation we've seen over the last few years. And we are in a similar amount of price increases, which means that we will, and when we get the full effect of that into the first half of this year, that should also contribute significantly to the results. We're also doing things on claims handling, on efficiency, on digitization. All of these will have maybe on the minor, but still also an effect on the overall cost ratio and combined ratio for the insurance business.

Thank you for that. Can I just quickly return on the unit linked on the actual fee margin pressure point? It's been a negative, but it sounded like you were saying that's stabilized.

yeah we think that this volumes of course will grow with double digits going forward and that the fee will the fee margins that we see now is what we expect also going forward thank you Farouk I think we will progress on with the next question then from Håkon Astrup in D&B markets please go ahead Håkon

Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions too from me as well. The first one on insurance follow-up there. You mentioned that the market is pricing in excess of 20% and as understood correctly, you are following the market. Can you give us some more color on different kind of sub-segments here? Where do you see the highest price increases? And the last question on the

internal model can you give us an update on how that work is progressing sure on the first question and we don't want to go into that kind of details partly because of competitive reasons and partly because we're not allowed to discuss too much on on these pricing issues but we have a a broad range of products and they are repriced to meet profitability targets in the group and according to maintain or strengthen our market position. So I don't think I can give you more numbers on the details than that. On the partial internal model, we have applied for that. The application is with the FSA now, and we are now reporting internally with the internal model numbers in parallel with the standard model. which enables us to learn, to see differences and hopefully we will be able to also report that externally towards the end of the year. But we're very happy to see that we have a model that is working, that is giving results that are predictable and with high quality and we look forward to share that with the market when we are closer to an approval from the authorities.

Okay, so potentially capital markets stay end of this year?

Potentially.

Thank you.

Thank you, Håkon. We have a next question from Thomas Svensson in SEB. Please go ahead, Thomas.

Yes, hi and good morning. So back to the non-life operations again. It seems to be in this group life part of this business, there seem to be this pattern of negative results every every year, every Q4. So is this what we see this year also a seasonal thing or has something happened with the assumptions there on the group life part?

The group life is certainly a weakness and has been for some time, and we are trying to fix it. There will be some seasonality in the first and fourth quarter, but we are not happy with the results in group life in the fourth quarter in 2024.

Okay, and over to the bank. There seems to be a jump. sequentially jumping costs there, taking the results down Q over Q. Could you shed some light on that? And also, what do you expect in sort of a normalized bank results per quarter in the coming year?

I think first of all, we are very pleased to see the growth of the bank and the result growth of the bank that we have seen through 2024. Of course, with the growth rate we have seen in the bank. We also need to staff up in service functions and so on in the bank to be able to meet the increased client volumes. So it's more like ensuring that we are still following the cost income ratio that is now going down to a quite decent level and make sure that this cost income ratio, the relative ratio will be kept and even reduced going forward. So I think that is the focus in the bank going forward.

Okay, so this is the new sort of new cost level or was there any strength one offs in connection with Q4?

No, I think you have to look at the full year cost level and then you should expect with a bank growing with 10 billions in loans as we have done the last year and still the growth we expect to see in 2025, you will also see growth in the cost level in the bank. That is a part of the cost guiding that Lars gave recently.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Thomas. We have a next question from Ulrik in Nordea. Please go ahead, Ulrik.

Thank you, Johannes. Quick question. I just wonder, given where we are on consolidation ratio, indexation and all of that in Sweden, what is the outlook for profit sharing for Swedish guarantees now in 2025?

so the guiding that we gave on the capital market stay in 23 December of approximately 300 million in Sweden and 300 million in Norway we maintain that guiding okay great thank you thank you Ulrik it seems like that was the final question so that concludes today's presentation our next set of results are due on May 7th and we look forward to seeing you again then thank you for attending and goodbye