Sanoma Corp Unsp/Adr

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Sanoma's first quarter 2026 results presentation. My name is Kaisa Urasmaa. I'm heading investor relations and sustainability at Sanoma. Our adjusted operating profit improved in learning and media in the first quarter. And today we have the president and CEO Rob Kolkman and CFO Alex Green to present the results. After their presentation, we will have a Q&A session. We will first take questions from here at Sanama House. Please use the microphone. Then we hand over to the telephone line. And you can also use the chat function in the webcast platform. The whole event will be recorded and the recording will be available on our website shortly after the event. With this, I would like to invite Rob on stage, please.

Thank you, Kaisa. And good afternoon, everybody. It's my pleasure to present the quarter one results to you this afternoon. And as Kaisa already mentioned, we've seen improved profit in both learning and media, which is a really solid good start to the year. Let me first go high level on the numbers and then, as usual, zoom in more specifically on learning, try to give a bit of a feel as well for where we stand in the build-up to really that step change in growth there. And then also, of course, say a few words about the media business as well. So overall, our net sales were stable. And underneath that, you see growth in learning. particularly in the Netherlands, Poland and Spain. And the advertising is still impacted by the weaker economic climate here in Finland. Profit-wise, we see improvement. Of course, this is a seasonally small revenue quarter, but the improvement is definitely there, and that is both in learning and in media. Free cash flow relatively stable, and Alex will talk about that a bit more. And Alex will also talk more about the leverage, which was 2.6, very close to our target level of 2.5. Of course, this is also following the repayment that we have done of the hybrid bond and the seasonality. And we were very pleased last week that we closed the acquisition with Visa and Vivas, which really strengthens our position in Spain. And now we'll dive a little bit deeper into that as well. You think about the outlook, we have kept that unchanged, obviously, and we can talk about that later as well. Obviously, the Visa and Viva's acquisition is a real positive that we see. At the same time, we kept it unchanged because it is still very early days in the year. Quarter three is for learning, very important, and clearly on the media side, the uncertainty lies around the advertising. But overall, really solid start, good start to the year. And that also means this outlook being unchanged, that the step change in profits that we indicated back in February, we really truly see that happening this year. And as we also highlighted in the Capital Markets Day. Let me now zoom in on learning a bit more specifically. So net sales increased in learning. Content sales grew in the Netherlands, which is driven by a larger spring order. And just to clarify, that spring order is, of course, a reflection of the growth we're also expecting for the full year in the Netherlands. So it's not like it was different phasing between the quarters. It is just a reflection of the kind of market we do expect in the Netherlands also for the full year. So that means growth in the Netherlands on this bit. Phasing between the quarters is indeed happening a little bit in Spain, small numbers. And we're very pleased in Poland that we see the digital platform sales growth continuing. And that very much is also driven by the more than one million subscribers we have to the B2C platform there. Of course, it's small numbers, and Poland will very much see the growth in quarter three driven by the curriculum. So then this growth will be less visible. But it's really good to see that that continues to be a strong part in the Polish growth story. And a few words on the profit, which, given the low revenue quarter, is lost. That improved a bit, which is, of course, supported by the higher net sales, which was a good margins. There are some cost efficiencies in there in a positive way following program solar. Again, most of that will, of course, materialize once you see the volumes increase. And there is also, to be clear, a higher cost base in preparation for the curriculum renewals in Poland and Spain. So that is something, of course, that we always see in a year like this. When you see big growth happening in quarter three, we have a ramp up from the sales and the marketing and some editorial as well. So that is with regard to the numbers for quarter one. I would like to also give you a bit of a feel that we are well positioned for the growth further on in the year. And there's a few elements there to highlight. So on Poland, really good news there is that the Poland government has reconfirmed its decision to modernize education. And that also comes with a 20% increase that they've signed off on the textbook subsidies, which is part of the market we're active in in Poland, which is, of course, part of our expectation. But it's really good to see that confirmed and therefore also supporting the point that the growth in quarter three increases. will be very noticeable in Poland. In the Dutch market, we see continued good growth on the learning content side. We've also, as part of the seven countries in which we rolled out teacher assistance, we're also rolling it out as a pilot now in the Netherlands. And we particularly think in the Netherlands this will really benefit our offering, particularly in secondary education going forward. It helps teachers to make more personalized exercises in this first phase. There's a lot more to come after that, but the Netherlands will be a market where we think we'll lead the way with regard to personalized learning. And an acquisition of Mr. Chet, which is a small one, but really helping more towards the students, the children, the tutoring is also really a good small step in that direction. Then Spain, the other big market for growth. There, we really have seen that the new funding cycle is about to start. All the indications from the different regions are that that is happening. We, of course, prepared with the content. That's also why some of the cost base is slightly higher in quarter one in preparation for all that. And we're very pleased to see that happening. And if you then think in Spain, on top of that, there is the acquisitions of Visa and Vivas, which, of course, is really value creating. It goes to the heart of what we try to do when we talk about leveraging our scale. So let me zoom in on that a little bit more with some specifics. So Visa & Vivas is one of the major learning content providers in Spain with a net sales of 29 million. It really offers product that complement ours with a similar approach in blended learning. So finding the right print and digital. So when, for example, in the capital markets that we talked about M&A activities, this goes to the heart of what we like in value creation M&A. It's, of course, as you know, in Spain, one of our bigger markets as well. We've got a good position there, and we have real great potential that also Visa and Vivas will benefit now from that funding cycle as well. So very much in line with our strategy, really building on the existing scale and supporting, therefore, also our long-term financial targets. This really has that 10% to 20% percentage of revenue as synergies, like we indicated in the Capital Markets Day as well. And that will take about 12 to 18 months to really fully materialize. And particularly, of course, the coming months are all focused on making sure we have a good start to the school year. Transaction details, no surprises. We've communicated them, the 40 million, and therefore that reflects about 6.8 times EBITDA. And it was completed, signed, closed, completed on the 30th of April. That's on the learning side. Let me now zoom in on media. There, very much the digital transition is continuing. So again, another quarter of growth in subscription sales on the online side, in particular, route to plus digital news media subscriptions. It's against the backdrop of still a more subdued economic climate here in Finland, as we all, of course, are very aware of, which in our case reflected in the lower advertising sales, mainly in TV and in print. So it's very encouraging to see that we have another quarter where, despite there being some headwinds on the top line, we have really robust cost management in place. And that means actually that we have increased our profit in a quarter like that. And that's really a testament to the hard work of Pia and the team, Pia Carlson and the team, to continue to deliver on that. And that improvement comes from the, indeed, growth in subscription sales, the robust cost containment, and then, of course, the impact of the lower advertising sales. And personal expense is part of that cost containment. So that's, from my end, the opening remarks. I will now hand over to Alex to dive a bit more into the financials, and then I'll come back and look forward a bit further and also put in perspective the growth in the coming years. Alex.

Thank you, Rob. So good to be here with you today. So welcome again to our Q1. Starting off with financials, as usual, with the earnings side, the adjusted operating profit year on year, and bringing together from the two slides Rob showed, the learning and media Finland parts, you can see both businesses contributing to higher earnings year on year. On the learning side, the sales flowing through, particularly good content sales in Netherlands and also in Europe, the digital platform sales in Poland, and also two cost impacts sort of offsetting in there. So the improved position with the solar efficiency costs, but also, as Rob was saying, the extra investment in things like marketing and sales, getting ready in Spain and Poland for the higher curriculum reforms, that netting to still an improvement in the year-on-year earnings. And on the media Finland side, we talked about the decline in advertising sales being more than offset by a combination of the growth in digital subscription sales and the cost containment, the robust cost management, which includes the impact of the temporary printing plant closure, including particularly the lower depreciation, also the personnel costs there as well. So this leading to a good start to the year and, you know, on track for where we want to go. If I then move to the result number, so again, the result for the period being improved versus this time last year flowing down from the operating profit improvement, the slightly higher IACs coming from the strategic development and the technology transformation costs across different parts of the operation. Net financial items at five, so lower interest costs effectively, with the interest rate being on average lower now, 3.4 versus 4.2 this time last year, more than offsetting the slightly higher or the higher external debt, which got higher towards the end of the quarter with the repayment of the hybrid bond. In terms of cash, free cash flow, relatively stable. So you can see here on the top the particular movements. And so the movements there, working capital, some timing of payments impacting there. And also same reason alongside the taxes. The taxes is obviously tax payments and also some tax receipts. So those two things are pretty much offsetting. So basically timing of cash there being the key thing getting to a relatively stable position. position overall and you can see on the bottom of the slide the 12-month rolling line being relatively stable there as a consequence. And then here, this shows you very, very clearly the hybrid bond repayment impact. Now, as you see going, normally, if you look at December to March, we do see the leverage going up as we have the negative cash and the investments, the low costs versus the low revenues at the beginning of the year. That still happens here, but is accentuated by the hybrid bond, 150 million after three years going back and being... being replaced with senior debt and the cash that we have. That we expect to, as the cash starts coming in, being positive in the second half of the year, that will come right down again below the target and to likely a little bit above the end of last year, but in that sort of ballpark. And connected back to the acquisition that we just announced, in April, so after the first quarter of April, we signed a new 70 million bilateral short-term loan to help fund that acquisition. As I said, it is short-term. We expect to repay that as the cash comes in at the back end of the year. So with that, I invite Rob back on stage for the path forward.

Thank you, Alex. And let me now indeed say a few words around the growth and also in context for the step change in growth this year. So just as a reminder, again, what we are having as key factors for 2026, as you can see here. So that's that growth in the learning content sales. And as I highlighted earlier, we are really well on track there in all these key markets like Poland, Spain and the Netherlands. It's driven by those curriculum viewers. It's also driven by more personalized learning solutions we are bringing to all these markets over time. And then on top of that is the Visa and Viva's acquisition. The discontinuation of the Dutch distribution business will happen this year. That's the final step there. It's still roughly in the order of magnitude that we indicated. And therefore, also on the adjusted operating profit margin, it goes really clearly above 23%. Coming back to the point of what is now happening here, if you purely look at these indicators, then of course the acquisition of these underweavers drives our expectation more towards the higher end of the guidance. But again, we expect and we see also continuing growth in the digital subscriptions. You saw it in quarter one. We see that continuing to happen in 26 as well. Advertising sales, of course, in the first quarter not stable, a bit declining. Therefore, extra good to see that the cost containment really resulted in still good profit and profit margins there. We will continue on that effort. It's always difficult to predict exactly where that will end up. But, of course, the efforts that Pi and the team so successfully have done over the years also continue in a year like this. ahead of course of real growth that we also expect on the media side from mid next year onwards if the gambling markets or when the gambling markets opened up so all that are the underlying sort of drivers for the growth in 2026 which of course is a real step change on the profitability side um And that's reflected in our outlook that we, as I mentioned, kept unchanged for now and, of course, ahead of our busy quarter three. So well positioned, well on track and exciting year ahead of us with regard to the growth. So with that, I would like to invite my colleagues back on stage so we can go into Q&A.

Thank you, Rob. Thank you, Alex. And we are now happy to take questions from here at Sanna Mahaus. And we will start with Sanna from Nordea, please.

Hi, thank you. I have a couple of questions on both segments, starting off with learning. And you showed us the slide about Visens Vives, but I would like you to kind of elaborate on how similar that business is to your current offering in Spain and where do you see the most synergies going forward and perhaps where it might differ. And what I mean is that where this could kind of complement your offering or add on.

Yes, very good point. So let's start with that last point. We're buying this because they have content that is really complementary to ours. That is sometimes in some of the methods. That's also in certain parts of Spain. This is also very strong in Catalonia. So that's where it really complements. offering as such really aligns well with us. So it's a blended learning offering. It's really focused on K12. So the similarities are in the way the content, the high-quality content, where it adds is both from a regional perspective as well as the type of methods and the position it has. To your point on the synergies, they are really in line with also what we mentioned, for example, in the capital markets data. So think about the printing paper, the logistics side, all those kind of things, real benefits of scale. There are some digital solutions here that, of course, we already have. We don't need to continue with those. The People that work on that might very well be valuable to us for the growth that we are planning. But that's really the focus on getting the synergies on the platforms as well. And then there are, of course, also the usual synergies when you think about the back office. And, you know, we have a sizable operation in Spain. So all that links to that 10 to 20 percent that I indicated also in the capital markets.

That's clear, thanks. You're moving towards the peak season, I would say, with the curriculum renewals in two markets. How do you see the competition at the moment in learning and its markets? Are there perhaps new AI players entering? I think we have heard some rumors about increasing competition in the Dutch market specifically.

Yeah, maybe touch on that. So to your point of do we see now AI players into our market, the answer is no, we do not see it. I think we honestly can say with our teacher assistants, student assistants, we are really leading the way at the moment in those core markets. It's early days. The main thing in education is then the actual adoption by the teachers. But for that to happen, in our view, you need high-quality content, you need the trust of the teachers, and you also need the relationships that we have. So it's not just the technology at all. It's really that combination. And I think we're in a really strong position there. And I think from that perspective, yes, there is the usual competitors, that landscape that we have. And that is good. You know, that's also good and healthy to have. And we are... of course, fighting for our market share there, as we always will do. And we are confident we will be a winner in those markets. If I look at the Dutch market, and indeed there's been a number of publicity around sort of initiatives there, That's interesting. We really welcome competition. So from that point of view, we also are looking forward to seeing what they actually come up with content-wise. We believe that we have a really strong offering in the Dutch market with a lot of flexibility that we can also offer to the schools or methods or elements of it. But we first need to see what really comes to market in the coming years before we can really comment on that.

Thank you. Then moving on to Media Finland. I have noticed that you have had several new initiatives, kind of. You've added New York Times to your Helsingin Sanomat bundle. You have a discount code for audiobooks. And I think I saw you entering the sports segment more heavily again with the Champions League. How are these new launches resonating with customers? And do you think these are the factors driving growth in subscription sales?

Some of it is a bit early, like the Champions League. I think people could not quite have subscribed yet for that, and it's also 27. The feedback has been very positive. You mentioned the New York Times. I think we're very happy with the response from our readers, subscribers on that. We have seen a good uptake. We think it really helps. with the value we provide to our subscribers. And that is also then ultimately reflected in a better subscriber base and more retention, et cetera. So we see on all these aspects, we do them because we believe it really adds value for our readers, for our subscribers. And the Champions League is one of those sport packages. Of course, Finland is not the biggest on football, but it's an important one as well. And we're very happy that we can add that to our offering going forward.

And if you could discuss sports a little bit more, I think previously or some time ago, you mentioned that profitability in sports might not be that lucrative. And that's why you have perhaps refrained from sports, if I could say that. So has the situation changed since or your thinking behind sports?

Yeah, we see it as a part of our offering, but only for the right price. And we can't comment on the exact price of this, but we're very happy with the deal that we have managed to close here. We really think this is value adding for our subscribers, but therefore also for our shareholders. And to put it a little bit in perspective, in some markets, of course, Champions League is absolutely massive. In the Finnish context, of course, it's a bit different, but it's still a really good addition to our offering and we believe creates a lot of value.

All right, thanks. That's all from me. Thank you, Sanna. And then we hand over to Sami from Danske, please.

Okay. I have many questions as well. Starting from the media business, we'll take this one by one. We had quite weak top-line development in Q1, negative 3% growth. When we look at the components... Both subscription sales and advertising look quite weak. Are you expecting this to improve during the year?

Of course, we would like to see that improving. I think the subscription side, we are quite confident that that overall will show growth, but driven again by what I mentioned, the digital subscriptions and also Route 2+. Things that we just mentioned that we add to create value will all help with that. Clearly, the more uncertain part is on the advertising side. There, the start of the year was, of course, a decline for the market and also for us. I'm very happy to see how we then do the cost containment as well to maintain and even improve our profitability. Clearly, that's the bit with the least visibility. If you think about quarter two, we don't see it going back to growth then. And of course, it will depend effectively on the economy here in Finland. And we, of course, work with several scenarios, including cost containment, to match a few of those. So if it would continue to decline, we are able, within reason, to adjust our cost base.

And my second question would be on that cost containment, which was quite impressive in Q1. So how should we think about the rest of the year? I mean, can you keep costs at this level? Because, I mean, if we would combine that with some improvement in the top line, the second half outlook could be quite positive, actually.

Yeah, I would like to not give the impression that this is easy, right? This is really hard work by Pia and the team. I think doing a great job on it. Clearly, this 26 is also a year before we do see the growth, also partly opening up the gambling market and hopefully the economy picking up a bit. So from our perspective, we have several scenarios where we can do more cost containment and we do it. But there is also a limit to what we are willing to do so that we keep the business strong. So there's no guarantees as such going forward that we can do it at the level we've done now. But of course, we are very focused. And if you look at our multi-year track record, then I think the team has done a great job and I expect them to continue to do a great job. To what level that exactly will be will depend then also on the top line.

Okay, then I have a couple of questions regarding the learning business. Firstly, on Spain, how should we think about phasing of the curriculum renewal? How much will happen this year and how much will be left for next year?

Oh, I think it is in line with what we overall have indicated. So, you know, these kind of curriculum renewals, funding renewals, they do go over that two-year period effectively, but there is no indication that that has changed compared to what we have factored into our guidance at the start of the year. Phasing is always a little bit between the quarters that is difficult to see. And that's different from the Netherlands, where really that's a continuous growth and that's also reflected in the early order growth. Here, some of it could fall more or less into quarter two, quarter three. But the growth is firmly still as we also factored into our guidance.

Then moving on to Poland, you mentioned higher subsidies by the government. When will these kick in and is that going to be visible in sort of prices for your products?

It is definitely visible not so much in our pricing as well as in the ability for schools to buy. So we're very happy that the government, because this was in the plans, we factored this, of course, also into our growth guidance. But it's one of those elements. It is an important thing to see when it then happens. So it's not that we then increase our prices, but it is the ability for the schools to really buy the content that they really also need in the Polish market. And maybe one additional comment on that. This is, of course, in the backdrop that Poland on a spend per student is still very much on the lower end, right? So this is a step in the right direction, but we are also advocating that that, of course, hopefully will continue because there's still a big gap between Poland and other markets.

Then you mentioned some extra CSM marketing spend in Q1 related to curriculum renewals. Can you quantify this and how will that sort of phase out during the rest of the year?

Yes, so this is kind of a few million, so two to three million if you put the two together in Q1. So if you think of the sort of profitability graph I showed where we're one up on last year, that contains two to three million of extra costs for the ramp up versus that year. That sort of ramps up in Q1, so you'll see a little bit more than that in Q2, and then it sort of goes away.

Okay, so a couple of million.

A couple of million in Q1, a bit more in Q2, and then it goes away.

Okay. And then final question regarding the acquisition in Spain. I think you've given kind of like the historical financials for the asset. But I mean, what's going to be the profit contribution this year? And how will that impact PPA sort of line?

So on that last one, you know, an EV of 40 million. We haven't done the PPA calculation yet. We've got an estimate. We obviously have some time to do that, but it's going to have a relatively small addition onto the PPA, maybe a million or so going forward. In terms of the overall thing, so as you saw on the slide, it's 2025 sales is 29 million. Obviously, we don't have the full year because we get it from April, so it's a few million less, so say round about... It's got the same sort of level, expecting the same sort of underlying level of EBITDA to contribute there for the year at an operating level. There are some other parts of the business that we talked about that we don't need, that we will be sort of looking to not use and discontinue as we go into the end of the year.

Okay, thanks. That was my list.

Thank you, Sami. And then we have Niko from STB, please.

Hello, this is Niko Rangas from STB. Thank you for the presentation. I have also a couple of questions. And just starting with Poland, you discussed about confirming that, did I understand right that the decision on learning spending was in line with your expectations or did it even exceed that?

Now, it's in line with our expectations, but it is, of course, an important driver of the growth. And it's also an indication of the government continuing to support, you know, like further investment in education. OK, good.

Then going to media and maybe a bit. thinking about a bit from a bit broader perspective on topics we have been already discussing so thinking about taking regarding for example the Champions League rights so do you think that those kind of things and how you are currently performing are taking you towards to your media financial targets or Are you kind of internally even possibly exceeding those in the future?

Well, I'm very positive about the growth potential of media for all the reasons we also mentioned before. I think we need to be realistic that it's currently still against the backdrop of an economic climate that is, of course, challenging, right? But if you think about all the things we are announcing around, indeed, the Champions League, indeed, what we do with the New York Times, all the things we do to add value for our readers and subscribers really... I think is ultimately helping with that growth for media. It is very important, if you think about our growth in 27, that the gambling market, of course, opens up there as well. So that together, we very much are still in that same belief that that will really drive also the good growth in media in the coming years.

I understand. Thanks. Then one last from me and maybe in two parts. So if you look at the advertising sales, which was challenging in Q1, so how big impact do you think that the Winter Olympic Games did have on you? And then maybe if you can quantify that one time film distribution sales you highlighted now in Q1.

Yeah, I think we're not communicating too detailed on those numbers. This is a really difficult thing to really pinpoint, if you think Winter Olympics and some of the other ones, because there's always different things going on. I think the underlying message is still one of it's a challenge market. Yes, there are some positive negatives in that, but it's really difficult to quantify that. So I would not pin ourselves on a number there.

All right. And then on the film distribution, was it a sizable one or what kind of ballpark are we talking about?

It's not sizable, sizable. It's, you know, one or two million, I think, in terms of timing and decisions to kind of, you know, there's always a bunch of discretionary decisions you can make in any particular quarter. And it's that sort of magnitude.

All right. Great. Thank you. That's all for me.

Thank you, Nikko. And then we have Petri from Inderes, please.

One more left. Can you quantify if there was any impact from the Dutch distribution discontinuation on the figures in Q1?

In Q1, it's very small because the vast majority is indeed Q3. It's a little bit Q2, but it's mainly Q3. So the 40 million we talk about, really vast majority Q3.

Thank you.

Thank you. And now we have, I think, someone waiting on the telephone line. So I would like to hand over to the operator, please.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Pia Rosequest-Heinsalmi from DNB Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Hi everyone, and thank you for taking my questions. It's Pia from DMV Carnegie. I'm sorry if I missed your potential comments on the advertising market and your advertising sales, but your advertising sales declined by 8% in the first quarter, and that was surprising. on the back of an 11% decline in Q1 last year. So despite this, you keep your view on a broadly stable ad market for Finland this year. So why is this?

So maybe to, Comrade Hyppier, thanks for the question. The way I currently look at it, of course, the first quarter of the year was more challenged than we would like to have seen. That was clearly a decline. What we are stating is that if you look at the underlying assumptions for our guidance, then that was staying stable, which is plus or minus a few percentages. point but I mentioned as well I don't know if you were able to hear that that of course we do think in different scenarios here we do really work also in cost containment terms to make sure that if things would not be as positive as stable that we can still also deliver on the profit side clearly there's a limit to that but that is of course our aim and that's also where the track record of Via Calsta and the team has been very strong over the last few years

All right, thank you. And regarding Media Finland still, what elements would keep sales stable in 2026 in line with your long-term ambition? I mean, we see still a lot of headwinds from the weaker ad market, less outsourced printing services, I mean, less festivals, if I have understood it correctly.

Yeah, there's a few elements there. Clearly, if trends on the advertising market were to continue as they are now, then that is not stable, right? That would be decline. We do think that there will be an improvement, could be an improvement in the second half of the year, but that still needs to be proven. Just to link it also to the other things I mentioned earlier, we do a lot of things to also grow and make the digital transformation go faster. Things were mentioned like having a deal with the New York Times, the Champions League, everything to add value for our customers on the subscribing side can, of course, also be a real positive in the overall numbers. But ultimately, for all this to have a positive growth longer term, you would also need to see the economy in Finland picking up.

All right, thank you. Still to Nico's question regarding the film distribution contract you mentioned. Did that contribute to your strong profitability in Media Finland, or was it so small that it was not significant?

It's limited. I mean, it's part of a raft of kind of decisions made on timing, but it's not a main reason why we had that decent profitability.

All right, that's clear. Thank you. And if I can continue still with a few questions on learning. So the acquisition you announced now at the end of April, Given that it comes with a lower profitability, and I'm sorry, I think I missed your comment when you alluded to this on learning, but is there any risk of that these kind of challenges your 23% adjusted EBIT margin target for 426?

So, no, we still stand by the above 23% adjusted target. I think there is a margin difference at the moment, but a lot of that is to do with various activities that are not core to what we want to do, and we will be sort of changing relatively quickly. So in doing that, we then move the margin up in the right direction to help... to help and not be a problem. And then as we start integrating and creating some synergies, that also helps going forward.

And maybe specifically, of course, if you look at the timing of the acquisition, it's, of course, towards the middle of the year, which means we are more profitable. And that is also true for Viz and Vivas in the second half of the year. So that PR has actually a positive impact as well, of course, on the you know, like part of the year profitability of the acquisition we do here.

All right. Thank you. And with regards to the part of the business that you possibly divest or end, in terms of sales, how significant is that of the total 29 million you have mentioned?

So it's not so much on the sales side. There are real synergies that we see with the digital solutions. And I would like to be Be clear, work needs to be done on that to really identify how exactly we're going to do it. There's some really good people at Visa and Viva working on it, but some of the solutions clearly, and that's part of our M&A story, of course, are overlapping with what we have. So we will make those changes. We normally take 12 to 18 months to make that happen, but it's more on that side than purely on revenue.

clear thank you and my final question regarding your non-recurring items in in the first quarter I think most of the non-recurring items were allocated to not to the segments but to other to group costs so what what is what is currently what are you engaging in I read that you it's two for transformation, but what does this mean in practice?

So part of that is to do with underlying technology kind of or underlying back end technology projects that we're upgrading, which will have an impact in not just on one side, but also partly on the other side of the business. That's why we are looking those costs there at the moment. So it is sort of back end platform improvements in the business.

All right. And I'm just trying to understand why are these recorded as non-recurring elements?

I mean, these are transformational changes whereby we already have costs related to those operations in the operating side. These are extra things that we are building, which will then replace at a certain point in time. And as they replace, the other ones will end and this will transfer up into the operating side.

All right. Thank you. That's all for me.

Thank you, Pia. And the chat is quite lively, so we will continue from there. Maybe I start with questions on the media business. So subscription revenue growth slowed down in Q1, despite potentially price increases that are made. What drove that, and should we expect the momentum to pick up or accelerate further during the year?

Yeah, so I think there is no change in the overall change we see in subscription, which is still that driving of digital subscription being the growth driver. Quarter by quarter, that can be a bit different also in the mix than on the print, which, of course, is a declining part of it. But it comes back to the question earlier around how do we see all these new offerings that we are introducing as part of a subscription. That, of course, is part of what we expect will drive further growth as well.

Then further to media is about the Champions League deal. What should we think about the possible step up in the broadcasting rights overall from 27 with this included?

Yeah, so that's another way of asking what are we paying for it. And we are not disclosing that. We're not allowed to do that. But I think what I can say on it is that we are always looking at the total cost of content creation. And clearly, when we spend money on this, we also make careful choices on what we do not spend. Not that that is a one-for-one comparison, but it's good to see the total content. We really do believe adding the Champions League rights here has real value creation for our subscribers, but also for our shareholders.

And earlier we have also mentioned that we may invest slightly more as a preparation to the gambling market opening. But not significantly. And then maybe final on media. After the strong Q1 operating earnings, does that give you confidence in a meaningful full year earnings growth?

It certainly gives me confidence that the team is still on a very good track to manage the cost in an extremely good way, right? Whether that will result for the full year in a meaningful increase, the uncertainty around the advertising economy is too big to be able to make that statement. So I can't make that statement. That's also why we were very clear on saying we're very happy that in quarter one we've mitigated it. We do everything we can to continue that, but it will depend ultimately on the economic situation.

Thank you. And then if we move into learning and continue from the competition in the Netherlands, still from the angle that, you know, with this new low-cost entrant, do you see this to affect the customer conversations, the pricing discussions, et cetera? So maybe that's the first question.

Yeah. So on that part, yes. Like, we are, of course, really close to our customers, which is the schools and the teachers across the Netherlands. We have a really strong position. That's, of course, going to continue. So we really are in contact. We actually also do our own teacher survey. I think I mentioned that publicly as well. And we see really strong positive feedback on it. As I mentioned before, we take competition very seriously. At the same time, we also need to have something to look at to be able to comment on how we look at the content and pricing and all the rest of it. That's too early because there is no competitor there yet. In the broader context, we, of course, have been dealing and are dealing with low-cost, let's say, competitors in our markets across Europe. This is, in that way, nothing new. Of course, every approach is slightly different, and we will take that seriously.

What about in a few years' time frame? Do you see this meaningfully shift the market dynamic?

Change from where it is now. We are really confident that we can also adapt our own offering and remain very, very relevant and strong in the Dutch market as well. We've been there for over 130 years. That's absolutely no guarantee of success going forward. But we are very serious about this. We work very closely with the schools and the teachers. And I'm very confident that we will continue to do so successfully.

Yes. Thank you. And then if we continue in learning but move to AI. So the question is, is AI changing the competitive dynamics? And are there new entrants or existing competitors expanding capabilities? Yes.

So there's a couple of elements to this question, right? So if you look at, let's say, the question on new competition, we do not see pure AI digital players at the moment in our markets stepping in. And we also think that's logical because it's not just about the technology, as we discussed earlier. It's about the high-quality content. It's about the trust. It's about working very closely with the teachers. And we are in a really good position to do so. That doesn't mean there's no competition on that. Of course, there's other players that are trying to do the same thing. But we are in a strong position and we will continue to try really to lead the way there. So that's, I think, our experience over many years in the education market. It's not about the latest technology as much. It's making sure that you work with the teachers and the schools to make it happen at the right time, in the right format, and also in a way that the schools are comfortable with.

And maybe that partially already answers the follow-up question on this, that do you see that AI is ultimately protecting or eroding the advantages of scale players like Sonoma in K-12 learning?

From my perspective, it really is supporting the need for scale. If you think about what we now deliver with the AI teacher assistant and also for the student, being able to roll one product out in seven markets and then really use the high-quality content we have there, I think that scale really matters there. And to a certain extent, you also see that, and we even see it also in our M&A. The kind of players that are looking to become part of that scale is, of course, increasing. And we are very happy, if you take Vision Business as an example, that we can add it because it's adding to a scale where you really can develop products once and then roll them out across the different markets.

And then maybe final on that topic, is there a way to estimate the AI's impact on, say, three-year revenues or earnings?

Well, I think anybody who at this stage would say that they can, it's difficult to take that seriously. There is so much happening. There's so much still changing. I'm very excited about it. I think that's on personalized learning. The opportunities are really, really big, but it needs to be at the right pace also for the schools, for the teachers. And we are very committed of doing that. And the technology is part of it, but it's also the high quality content. And it's also making sure that it's in the way done, that the teachers and the schools are confident in rolling that out.

Yes, thank you. And then one more on learning, which is about the competitive landscape, and especially in a year with significant curriculum growth expected in Spain and Poland. How do you describe the competitive environment in these countries now going into the season?

So there's no real change there. It's a similar question to the point of do we see really new entrants? No, we don't. That means that there is competition. There is strong competition like there always is. We are also in a very good position. And this is a fair kind of competitive landscape, right? So no major changes there. But the teams are working very, very hard to secure our market position.

And are you already seeing any changes in, say, win rates or pricing or any kind of early indications is the question.

It's too early. It's too early. Yes. But it is, you know, like to the point that I tried to make earlier, we are really in a really good position in those key markets. That's absolutely the case.

Yes. Thank you. There are no further questions in the chat. If there are no further questions from the room, then I think that we can... conclude the presentation and the Q&A. And as a reminder, we will report our half-year results on the 29th of July, so ahead of the high season in learning. And of course, after this webcast, we will be available at Investor Relations for any further questions. We thank you for participation and wish you a nice afternoon. Thank you.