Voestalpine Ag Unsp/Adr

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Fostalpine Publications 3rd Quarter BY 2024-25 conference call. I am Valentina, the call-to-call operator. I would like to remind you that all participants will be in listen-only mode and the conference is being recorded. The presentation will be followed by a Q&A session. You can register for questions at any time by pressing star and 1 on your telephone. For operator assistance, please press star and 0. The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. At this time, it is my pleasure to hand over to Gerald Resch, Investor Relations Manager. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the analyst conference call for the first three quarters of Business Year 2024-2025. Next to me are sitting our CEO, Herbert Eibensteiner, and our CFO, Gerald Mayer. As usually, we will start with a quick presentation with business development, actual situation, and financial figures. And afterwards, we will be happy to answer your questions. I would like to hand over now to Herbert Eibensteiner.

Thank you very much. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, to our presentation about the business year third quarter. And let me start with two slides out of our strategy. And when you look at the left-hand side, you can see what – global megatrends we saw when we implemented this strategy and I think very, as we see in our recent geopolitical development, this is globalization or de-globalization and trade restriction is The environment we are in, we see the climate change topic still there. And on the other hand, we are well aware, and this is more or less worldwide, that we have a demographic and sociocultural change. And you are well aware that we see a rapid, really rapid technological change. Change our strategy should safeguard our economic viability and also strengthen the resilience of First Alpine. And what we want, and this is a clear goal, we want to have sustainable value enhancing growth. What are the goals for the coming years of this strategy? As I mentioned before, this value enhancing growth in this very dynamic environment we are in. The focus here is clearly in our processing activities. When you look at the second item, decarbonization, the steel production is volume-wise on a strategic hold position. The focus is clearly on this decarbonization and keeping this top quality and technological approach when it comes to products. We take advantage of these new mobility requirements, and this is not only automotive. This is railway infrastructure. This is airplane business and others. And, yes, we need an energy transition. We are part of that, but we also want to benefit from this transformation also. with our own products, which is the case wind, water, water power, and photovoltaic. And very important is this on the right-hand side, this first bullet point, internationalization in a changed trading environment. This means production local for local. You may have heard of it. I told it several times that we did investments, for instance, in the U.S. and just to avoid not only tariffs, but also to make sure that logistics and all the other things are manageable so that this is the local for local approach. A few example, production is moved to the U.S. for the hyper warehouse business. It's 40, 50 million coming from Europe in the last years. Now it's directly produced in the U.S. We see that turnout business is a very local business in the U.S., so it's by America. by America topic, so that's the reason why we grow our business there. But there are some other examples, for instance, railway infrastructure in Egypt and local production of turnouts, the same we do actually in South America. So this is a very important thing for us and is also part of the growth story as an example for the for the railway business, but we do also divesting of activities if it's necessary, and I will explain that afterwards as well. Competitive production sites is clear. We do that. We take the opportunity in difficult times to improve our efficiency. and we do that in automotive, but in all the other divisions as well. Very important is that we have this technological leadership approach, means that we are focused on high quality, high technological products. This is important for us. We do not think about commodities and only in higher qualitative product. And employees are always very important because qualified people are key to our success. Just to give you a brief overview of where we are focusing on in the upcoming years. As I mentioned before, it's clear this is our... Portfolio optimization, I think you are well aware that, and you have seen it in the figures, we have put arrows for sale, and we have successfully closed this transaction at the end of January, and that means strategic-wise the reduction of the European footprint and more standard tool steel products and so we can focus our product mix on high end tool steel and special steel mesh metals and on the other hand it was a loss making activity which is now a positive I would say investment also for the future development. We do some other reorganization of our businesses in high-performance metals, supply chain optimization, organizational changes, efficiency program, and the same we do in automotive components. As an example, business in Germany, we will – bundling our competencies in several companies, and we will close down one factory in Germany that brings costs and also cost improvements. And Garrett Meyer will tell you that this reorganization is more or less digested until the end of the year when it comes to costs. And smaller business for automotive tools, cam business, has been closed by the steel division. I think it's not necessary to explain again our transformation strategy. So far, we really appreciate our lower risk decarbonization strategy. We are in the middle of the first step of our decarbonization path. In a nutshell, we closed down two blast furnaces and will be replaced by electro-arc furnaces. How is the project proceeding? You know it's a capex of 1.5 billion euros. 25% of the capex is already spent and 60% is awarded. We will ramp up this project in the beginning of 2027. All the other steps have to be decided in the next years to come. Now we are working on the first, in the first step. Let me move to the development, sorry. The development in our markets, you know, Europe is our weakest market, and First Tulpene was impacted by an ongoing weak economy. In contrast, railway systems, aerospace and warehouse and rec solution did very, very well. Not only in Europe, but particularly in Europe, North America, in general, our plants performed very well. And so when it comes to oil and gas exploration, you know, our OCTG business, has slowed down in Q3. All the other activities, railway systems, warehouse and rack and tubes and sections performed very well. Brazil, always interesting, all in all satisfying, but in the last quarter, We see a slowdown in tool steel production coming from the strong rise of interest rates of the Brazilian government. So, in China, all in all, very good. Thanks to ongoing strong production in the In wintertime, mostly at the end of the Q3, we suffered a little bit from the weekend of the German OEMs. In China, all the other companies were doing quite well. So let me come to the divisions. Steel division performed overall very well in generally in a very difficult steel market. And Q3, I would say that December was really, really weak from the maintenance stops or stops of the automotive industry. But when you look at the earnings, we increased a little bit the earnings year on year in the steel divisions. High-performance metals, very challenging in tool steel, but aerospace continued to perform very well. very well, and metal engineering was constantly strong with high demand for railway infrastructure, and I've mentioned that before, not only in Europe, but globally. Metal forming differently, very weak development automotive components. That's the reason why we do this efficiency program there. And warehouse and rack solutions. And as I mentioned before, tubes and sections in the U.S. performed quite well. So far, the market overview. And now let us come to the figures.

Thank you, Herbert. I would like to give you now insight to our numbers and how everything that Herbert told you translates exactly into our... first three quarters, and let me start with the revenue line item. We are down 650 million euros comparing the first nine months to the first nine months of prior year. One-third roughly of the 650 million refer to lower volumes and mixed deviations. The other two-thirds is, of course, a price issue, and this is in particular related to lower raw materials. All the raw materials and also energy is cheaper than it was the year before. Talking about EBITDA and EBIT, you see that we are down roughly 300 million. Interestingly, we are slightly up compared to the prior year in steel division. And the other divisions are down. I think it's no surprise. You all know that in HBM division we sold puteros. So this is a non-recurring item of more than 80 million, which is included there. We are in metal engineering where we have our OCTG business, which was extraordinarily strong in the prior period. This is down compared to that. This also is the main reason why we are down in metal engineering because, you know, railway system is performing well. But this is – the main reason is tubulus there means OCDG. Metal forming division is also down and here we have the issues in automotive components business where we also restructuring and we recognized roughly a little bit more than $30 million of restructuring cost end of last quarter. So all in all, the one of items add up to $170 million in EBIT. And if I go into a little bit more detail and summarize it for you there, 80 million, roughly a little bit more, refer to the sold business of Putieros. More than 30 million is restructuring of automotive components in Germany. I have explained to you the ComTech business in steel division. This is a little bit less than 10 million there. So this adds up now to roughly 170, and then there's still things to come, and you read it. So we still expect something left for automotive components, another 15 million to come until end of our fiscal year and then some minor things of reorganization and restructuring in our high performance metal division where we bundle in particular sales activities, storage facilities which should then help us and support us in releasing working capital in future. Financial result, exactly where we have been last year, so roughly $140 million. This is the level of last year. And then last but not least, we end up with the profit after tax of $415 last year. This year, $277 million. And the tax rate, and this is obvious here, is lower than it was last year. We had some, like in last quarter, I explained that we had one-off, well, not one-off, it's tax income for prior periods in there. of roughly 38 million, and on the one side, and on the other side, we have impacts which are not tax deductible, and this has to do with the sale of pudieras, so everything is, I think, crystal clear if you look there and go into the details. Going to the EBTA bridge now, I would like to share with you, you see there, first two columns, price and raw materials, 54 million plus in gross margin, The plus comes in particular from our steel division and the others are slightly down and the net number is 54 million plus in gross margin. As I mentioned before, all the raw materials and also energy were cheaper than in the comparing period. And these are the 494 million in the second quarter. What is also interesting is the deviation in mixed volume, minus 55, going there into a little bit more detail. We see that we have negative volume developments in all the division. A main reason was that, in particular, the breaks for our automotive customers were longer than in prior years than expected, actually. And so this is why we are a little bit behind there, and also one main reason for our reduced outlook to 1.3%. billion in EBITDA. What was positive on the other side is the mix development, so we have positive mix developments in particular for specialty products in heavy plate. as we had it in the last quarters. Last but not least, the last line item there, or column there, miscellaneous, minus 300 million, it's quite a big number, what is in there. On the one side, we had positive impacts there last year. You might remember that we recognized subsidies for energy end of fiscal, let's say end of calendar year 23, of 80 million roughly. And this year we had an extraordinary impact there from the sale of Poderos of more than 80 million. So this, if you add up these two, this adds up to 160. And then, of course, we have to add to include inflationary effects on the personnel side, for example. And all in all, this adds up then to roughly $300 million. But the main reason is the subsidies of last year and put the others this year, which add up to $160 million. Yes, I would like to go now to the next slide. The next slide gives you some insight to our cash flow development. The first two columns compare the first three quarters. The last one is just Q3. And if you look there, we managed quite well to improve our working capital, as we also announced and indicated when we explained the half-year numbers to you. So we expected improvements there, and now they are there. This comes from Active, of course, working capital management. And so the impact there was definitely very positive, in particular in Q3, where you see positive development of working capital of $180 million. What is also included there in the first three quarters, this was already included in Q2, is tax payments for prior years. I explained that the last time of roughly 100 million. So if you exclude that, it would have been positive also for the first three quarters working capital development. What is also interesting is in our cash flow from investing activities. You see here a number of $750 million. $110 million is included there for our green textile project in the first three quarters. Yeah, and we definitely expect also positive development in Q4, and so we expect positive free cash flow of roughly a little bit above 100 million as of today. What I would like to share with you here is that we are definitely working also going forward. in improving our working capital and also our cash out from investing activities. And we guided the last time. Investing activities for next year, 25, 26, between 1.3 and 1.4 billion. We reduced this now. We worked on that, reduced this now. We are in the middle of the end of the planning process. And what we expect as of today is CapEx next year below 1.2 billion. This is our clear target there to support also free cash flows. Yeah, until end of this year, our expectation is also 1.2 billion of cash out for investing activities. Next slide I share here with you as you know this slide and this chart. What we can say here is that the balance sheet is unchanged strong. Equity is at the level of last year. Equity ratio is a little bit below 50%, 48% during 26%, slightly above year end, fiscal year end, 23, 24. But in this area, net debt, EBITDA at 1.4, so means a sound balance sheet and financial structure. Next slide. What you see here is just one headline there for me. Homework for this year is done and no major tasks for next year. So redemption adjusted $200 million. So nothing to expect there. We feel comfortable and have enough committed lines and flexibility also on our financial side to be ready for things which might have to be done. Yeah. So this was it from my side in a nutshell about the financials. And I hand over now again to Herbert.

Thank you. I will end up with the outlook. Thank you. I will end up with the outlook. Railway systems, warehouse and wreck solutions and aerospace business will stay, will remain strong also globally. We in Europe, we see no recovery in the next months. But what we should mention, and this is, I would say, even positive, that we see some restocking or expect some restocking effects in Q4. And demands to follow, and so the stocks, I would say, are lower than the quota. So we see these restocking effects. This is apparent consumption and not real consumption in North American plants, local plants, railway tubes, warehouse and racks. I think we can expect the performance will continue. And on the other hand, we see this recently announced tariffs when we import products into the U.S. And so far, about the actual tariffs, information. I think this is manageable. It's a manageable figure. And you may be aware most affected is also the G business from metal engineering and also some products in high performance metals and these are the most affected parts. We will see what this will bring. I think this will be a question afterwards. The Brazilian business is divided on the one hand, as I mentioned before, because of these higher interest rates. We see some slowdown in metal production, but on the other hand, we see metal processing still strong and on good levels. And Chinese business is expected to stay strong. And as I mentioned before, there is no headwind. There is no tailwind for the German OEMs in China. And this leads to this new EBITDA forecast of 1.3 billion, including... these 200 million one-offs, which Gerald has already explained, and once again with the outlook for the free cash flow of a bit more than 100 million euros. So thank you for your attention, and I think you have a lot of questions.

session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press and on their telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press and . Questioners on the phone are requested to disable the loudspeaker mode while asking a question. Anyone who has a question may press and at this time. The first question comes from from . Please go ahead.

Thank you for taking my question. I have two of them, please. Firstly, on the guidance, you have referred to the German OEMs in China being weak. Over the last three months, what is driving this change? Is it lower volumes? Is it lower prices or combination or is it higher costs? That's the first question. And I'll ask the second one after you answer this one. Thanks.

Sorry, it's very easy. It's mostly volumes.

Okay, very clear. And the second question is, in a scenario where the war in Ukraine ends, how will that impact your supply chains? Do you see any potential financial gains from a reconfiguration of your supply chains, whether it was energy or iron ore or any type of raw materials?

We are still getting material from the Ukraine, so not the same amount as before the crisis or the war started. But yes, this can be an option. What the end of the war in the Ukraine would be for Europe, it would be very positive. not only because of these political topics and, you know, the people are suffering severely in the Ukraine, but, you know, there is so many demand in rebuilding infrastructure, and this would be very positive for the European economy and also for Feustalpide.

Thank you. So on your INR supply, does anything material change going forward?

No. Maybe the volumes can increase again. That's the only change.

Okay. Thank you very much.

The next question comes from Tristan Dresser from DNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Yes, maybe just a quick one on the Ukraine question. Do you have any sense of the potential demand uplift from a resolution of the conflict and how the Supreme could participate in that? I think there were numbers out there of 5 to 8 million ton of potential demand. demand uplift, and also when you mentioned it could be very positive for Europe, but more specifically to the steel market, do you believe it's also a possibility that if there is a peace that we'll see the return of Russian steel export on European soil? That's my first question.

I think when it's – in this Ukraine topic, we are mostly thinking of infrastructure topics. That means railway infrastructure would – benefiting from that, but also some other activities, high-performance metal, tool steel, high-speed steel, and so on, is needed, I guess. But the question about... is, I don't know, it's such a political topic. So far, I have no idea how long this would take, that this return of this imports would happen. It's difficult for me to say.

Yeah. All right. No, that's fair. That's really helpful. And then my question is on the U.S. tariffs. I know we discussed that in the past, but could you remind us maybe the volumes that you were shipping to the U.S. by product? Also, I'm interested in how much of those volumes were under product exclusion. because it's my understanding that the product exclusion process has been revoked. So if you have an exclusion, it still works, but when it laps, you cannot renew it. So I was also curious when those exclusions that you got will lapse and when you'll see the impact. And also, you've quantified the impact of this tariff in the past. If you could do that again, that would be helpful. And if you could remind us also how it does work at the – Does the buyer pay the tariff or you split it? Or exactly when you quantify the impact of the tariff, what exactly does that include? Thank you.

It's a very tricky question right after the tariffs are imposed. But as far as we know it, that in March, the tariffs will start and all the exemptions will... I think that's clear. That's clear so far. For us, we are paying tariffs also with the exemptions. The most affected part is OCDG business, I would say, and this was a figure you may remember in the past where we paid fully the 25% tariff without this quota ruling we got in the last years so it was around 25 million 25 to 30 million in tariffs and when you add this high performance metals business it's another $10 to $15 million. So I would say in the worst case, close to a middle double-digit figure, we would pay fully the tariffs. But it's worth to mention that we are totally focused in these imports into the U.S., on high-quality products. So most of these products are used in the U.S. and not produced in the U.S. So what should we – I think we can carry on with our business, and there are so many, and you mentioned a few of these products. of these models, you can be to share the tariffs or the customer has to pay the tariffs. When you have your high margin, maybe you can even afford the tariff. So it's not finally clear how it works, but worst case, we are calculating this, I would say, 30 to 40 million euros.

Okay, thank you. That's very clear.

Maybe just a quick follow-up on that. Just as an example, let's talk about OCTG business. So the demand is 5 million tons in the U.S. So the U.S. can produce 3.5 million tons. So 1.5 million tons are remaining for imports. So the whole world is now affected by these tariffs. So who... If there is need of these products, I think that prices will rise and the customers will pay for this 1.5 million tons. There is no other way out, at least from my perspective.

Okay, so that's clear. And maybe just a quick follow-up then on OCTG. There are some views out there that keeping South Korea on a quota would have been more helpful than allow them just to now pay the tariffs. Do you have a view there where you would have preferred Korea to stay on the on a quarter deal rather than now pay the tariff, or do you think it's still positive overall?

You know, it's every single country and every market will now negotiate with the U.S. government. I think it's too early to talk about that. We have not the final view. What's clear is that it can be that the delivery streams will change in the course of the next year. But I think it's too early to discuss this because I think we are at the beginning of a negotiation phase, and I think that Europe will do that with the U.S., and we will see the outcome. What we can say for us as First Albany as a whole, even in the worst-case scenario, it's a manageable topic, and whatever we can achieve in negotiations between EU and the U.S. would be beneficial for us.

Okay. Thanks a lot. That's very clear.

The next question comes from Michael Maschalinger of the group. Please go ahead.

Yes, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I have two, and they are both related on your auto business. Firstly, on the current call-off dynamics, especially out of Germany. You mentioned December was a weak month. Would you say call-offs in Germany are stabilizing at the moment or still declining, weakening? It would be just interesting what you're seeing in your other book.

You know, I think we are in a cyclical low. There is no further reduction so far. And we had, you know, January is finished. We had very strong, very strong production in January for the automotive industry. So this is, for sure, this is restocking. That's clear. But I think that there is no further deterioration in automotive.

Okay. Got it. And second question on your automotive outlook into 2025. We are seeing now some new regulation coming into force on European level. this corporate fuel economy, and a lot of the German OEMs are still lagging behind the targets, especially one of your main customers, Volkswagen. So it would be interesting in the discussion with the OEMs, what is their feedback and how does this new regulation shape their volume outlook for 2025, and ultimately your volume outlook for 2025.

As I mentioned before, I think we can say that it remains on the level we are at the moment. In general, we are not only delivering to the German carmaker. We deliver to all the European carmakers. So I think that... And we have some reduction in German car volumes replaced by Asian customers. So I think we are thinking on this European market, and the European market will stay stable at this level so far. And this is an outlook for the next two months. or three months.

Okay, I understood. Okay, yeah. Thank you.

The next question comes from Boston Synagogues, Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Yes, good afternoon, all, and thanks for taking my questions. I've got a couple, and my first one is actually also a follow-up on markets. And I guess it's really hard to be overly positive in an environment like this. But could you maybe talk about also the other end markets? You said automotive is stabilizing. Is there any area where you already start seeing any positive signs, maybe even on pricing and demand in the more cyclical end markets, such as machinery and energy as well? And then maybe a little bit more looking out into next year already. And I know it's early, but Is there any early views you may have on 2026 EBITDA already for next year? And is the current consensus around 1.5 billion in the right place from your standpoint today? These are my first questions.

Mr. Sinagovic, I think it's... It's not unlogic to take this 1.3 and add the one-offs to this 1.5. I think there are some uncertainties. We know that some businesses will be better in the next year. stay weak, at least it's not – again, it's not unlogic, but I think we – you will see a bandwidth in our next year's outlook, and what we know is that we will reduce this capital expenditure to $1.2 billion, and we have really clear, clear goals for delivering free cash flow, and all these measures in place, and we have already started.

Okay, gotcha. And you say that some areas you expect to go better. So which are the areas where do we actually see supportive trends already where you would be confident enough to say there are things which are actually going better in the new business here?

Yeah, I think the stronger businesses stay strong. As I mentioned before, I think we are in – at the bottom of the cycle and what can be then for the next month I think the markets remain subdued as I mentioned before with the exception that we see this restocking. which is positive for us to make it clear. What I think, it is my personal opinion, when we will see some upturn, then the first upturns will come in building and in machinery, I think. Household appliances and others will stay difficult, but this is my opinion and my feeling when I talk to economists that there is some fantasy in the course of the year after summer, maybe.

Okay. And then just coming back on to your cut for 2026 CapEx guidance towards 1.2 billion or below, could you please share with us where exactly you've been cutting? Have you also been cutting on the front of decarbonization? And then related to that, it seems like the general enthusiasm on decarbonization has basically faded, of course, when talking also to maybe some of your peers. I guess this is probably playing into your approach of a more measured transition speed here, but are you still convinced that these investments make sense? And could you please also give us some examples on where and how you expect to get a decent return on these investments, given that the demand for green steel and possibly also price premiums feel a bit more uncertain today?

Yes, I can say that it would be more expensive when we stop some capital expenditure in our green tech project. It's a big project, and I think we will go on with that. But, you know, in a big company like Vestal Bene, there are thousands of also smaller investments, and we – I think we did our job to reduce that to a certain extent and thus end up in a figure which is by far lower than what we have expected. forecasted previously. I think that's a figure where we don't harm any of the other businesses and we are very confident with these figures. By the way, it's not only next year. We will see in our planning that we will come in the in 26, 27 also with 1.2 billion and so I think that's the positive. The positive thing is also part of our activities to create free cash flow and so I can say this reduction won't harm any of our businesses. And as I mentioned before, we are happy with this step-by-step approach because we have a certain risk reduction. We have to all the rules and regulations and laws are not gone. So we are part of the European Union still. We have our goals. But what I think is that we have... gains flexibility with this first step that's clear and we are sure that also on the cost side because when we think about the CO2 the CO2 The CO2 costs, I think it's positive. It will turn out positive. Both things is, I think green steel will be a topic also in the future, and we gain flexibility. These are the main positive aspects in a nutshell.

Okay, thank you.

The next question comes from Christian Agarwal from Seeking Group. Please go ahead.

Thanks a lot for the opportunity to ask questions. One clarification, if I may. Did you mention that in the March with the starting of the tariff, the existing exemptions will end and then you will pay higher tariff both the old one and the new one? Is that the right understanding?

So far, we understand that with middle of March, the exemption will end, and everybody who is importing steel and aluminum into the U.S. have to pay tariffs.

Okay, so effectively the Section 232 plus the additional 25% tariff if implemented, that will be the effective rate of tariffs on the steel boats.

On the steel imports, the question is who is paying for that. Who is paying for that, yeah. That's clear. And I think I have elaborated on that before.

Yeah, yeah, I understand. Thanks a lot. The second question is on the green tech. I mean, you mentioned that you spent $370 million to date, and then you're sort of 60% of the capital is awarded. Do you mind providing an update in terms of what is the solution for electricity, green electricity sourcing for the EF? I mean, you're not too far away from the commissioning of the first one.

I think the green electricity, you know, in Austria we have green electricity, and I think that for the first step is everything clear, so we have the grids, we have the contracts also for electricity, more or less we have contracts for scrap, we have contracts for So for this first step, everything is in place, and as I mentioned before, when it comes to Caplex, also everything is on plan, and nothing has changed, more or less. Okay.

The next question comes from Tommaso Castello from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, and thanks for the presentation. Most questions have already been asked, but I still have a couple, if I may. The first one relates to your stake in Corpus Christi. In case of retaliatory measures implemented by Europe versus U.S. tariffs, how would it impact your HBI supply? Is there any mitigating action that you have in mind currently, and does it change your plans for the supply of HBI?

I have no idea if HBI is part of this retaliation measures. So far I have heard that bourbon is under discussion and motorbikes. But I don't know. So far there is no – we have no information, no hints that HBI is part of this – of these retaliation measures.

I see. Thanks for that. And then just coming back to your tool steel business, because you have performed a number of restructuring plans to address the micro headwinds that are affecting the division, and you said you are moving from standard grades to more advanced grades. But could you help us understanding a little bit better which are the main end markets and what What's the difference between these grades? So you are currently moving from standard to more advanced, but which are the key landmarks that you are looking forward to supplying, basically?

A lot of standard business is going into automotive business, and, you know, the And it's living from new models, which is at the moment very, very low. That's one thing. And that's the reason why we decided to sell off Puderos. But the other topics are going in aerospace business in Europe. higher quality tools still for oil gas, other energy applications, medicine topics, watches, all those knives, tools. high speed steel in all those activities we think that the margin is higher it's more complex and this is the reason why we reorganize these things and it's very working capital consuming I would say and this restructuring has the clear goal to make these complex activities lighter in working capital and more efficient to cope with this complexity. And this is money and cash when it comes to working capital.

I see, and just to clarify, when you say the aerospace sector, like, the output is positive, then it will be reflected in good results from tools, too?

Yes, this is clear, but also parts for aerospace as well.

Okay, thank you very much.

The next question comes from Kristen Obst from Baader Bank. Please go ahead.

Yes, thank you and good afternoon also from my side. First, when it comes to quotas on the European level, what do you expect what the EU will decide at the end of March and maybe implement at the beginning of April? This is the first question.

Quotas on the EU side, okay.

Yes, import quotas.

Import quotas, yes. To be very honest, I think we will see that normally in these safeguard measures, we will see a prolongation, and the question is how the EU will proceed with the easing of volumes. And I think that's not clear so far. We have no information on that. Okay.

Do you see any kind of impact on the competitive environment in Europe from the bankruptcy of Liberty Steel and all of the subsidiaries there?

No, not really. When you think it's a commodity player, I think it's... The volumes were very low in the last years, I would say, or years. So not really, but, you know, we have a capacity in Europe of, I would say, 160 million tons, and we are producing 125 million tons. I think every player... who is going out of business is positive for the market situation.

Of course, thank you. And when it comes to the cost side, first on energy and second on personnel, Do you see or do you expect going into the next 12 months maybe on the energy side it's been sideways and some increase or some decline going forward? And what do you also expect from the personnel side? Will the increase be again over proportionally or will you be able to mitigate a little bit the personnel cost increase you might expect?

To your first question, energy, I think that there are so many information about gas, for instance, which is important. It's important for us. I think it's – and also driving the – the electricity price. I think we are in the middle of a winter where we have very low production in wind and solar activities, so that's make pressure on gas, that's clear. Politically, the problem is Germany, more or less, because without pressure to go out of power plants, I would say it's crazy and it's also a driver in electricity. But I would say there is no other structural problem. topic that you can say that energy costs will rise further in Europe because Trump want to sell more OCDG to Europe. By the way, it's already the biggest supplier to Europe. And I do not see on the gas side any long-term topic, and the gas price is driving the energy price, I think the same in electrical energy. So we will have some topics when wind and solar energy is low. I think not all the countries have made their homework to tackle this. Volatility, but I'm hopeful that the other countries are doing their homework in that case, building gas plants and all the other plants type which can work. reduce this volatility in energy prices. You know, we had last, three weeks ago, 700 euros per megawatt hour in Germany.

And on the personal side? Personal cost side?

No, personal costs, I think everybody is now very aware that we There was a bit of overdoing in the last years when it comes to personal costs. I think inflation is down, and I think we will see a development of wages accordingly. according to inflation. Maybe in some areas a bit less.

And maybe a last one, maybe a little bit special one. Now as the coalition talks in Austria have failed to come to any kind of conclusion, what do you expect for your country and what is the impact or what do you expect from an impact for your business or for the industrial business as such? And there will be maybe some whatever comes out going forward.

I think we are an export country. I think we will see another and we will see experts, governments coming for the next month. The pity is that there are big topics to do in Europe, clean industrial deal, negotiations with the U.S., tariffs, all these decisions. as you mentioned before, with safeguard measures and so on. It's a pity that Austria is not part of this discussion on European level, but I wouldn't overestimate this actual situation. I think our markets are around the world, and I think this is the main issue we are focusing.

Okay. Thank you very much and all the best.

Thank you.

As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your telephone. The next question comes from Maxine Korge from OdoBH-TEF. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon. So the first question is on U.S. tariffs. So obviously an objective of the Trump presidency is to increase domestic steelmaking capacity. And in the case of OCTGs, if prices are higher in the U.S. because of the tariffs, that will encourage local players to develop capacity on the market. So is it something that you would consider yourself building your own capacity in OCTGs as well as in other divisions like HPM where you are also affected?

Yes, sir. Long-term, maybe. I think the prices are higher in the U.S. I think that this will come. And as I mentioned before, when it comes to our processing activities, U.S. is one of our target markets. We will further increase capacities there. OCDG, we will know we have already enough capacity in OCTG and high performance metals you know we have our steel mills around the world in Europe and in Brazil I think but when it comes to processing activities it's It's also in our strategic scope to increase footprint in the U.S. as well.

Okay, thank you. And the second one is on metal forming, which is a division that performed in Q3, produced a historically low result. In your view, are the difficulties circumscribed to the auto sector, or do you see the structural weakness extending to other areas? And what could be the timing for a return to more normalized results of at least €50 million of EBITDA per quarter? Can it be as early as Q4, or should we wait until H1 or even H2 of next year?

Yes, it's a very good question. You know, this activity, most of these really negative effects are coming from the automotive component business, and you know, we have presented that we are in a reorganization phase, and we will see that it's a three-year program, but we'll see a reasonable figure also already next year and will increase in the next two years. So I would say next year we can expect 20 to 30 million plus in automotive components.

Okay, that's all. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Gerard Resch for any closing remarks.

Thank you very much for your participation and the viral discussions. As usually, please feel free to contact me after the call in case further questions will come up during the afternoon. Thank you and goodbye. Bye-bye.