Wartsila Corp Unsp/Adr

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Wärtsilä Corporation half-year report 2020. And I'm really sorry for this delay. We had some minor technical problems. I'm also joined, I'm personally myself here in Helsinki campus, in virtual offices, with Atte Palomäki, but I'm also joined by the whole board through the lines, and with the head of IR, Natalia Valtasaari. As before, I have a short presentation and then we have the possibility to talk about the numbers and issues with the Q&A. I'll start with the short key messages from the half-year report. First of all, the second quarter was unsurprisingly difficult for Wärtsilä, as the negative impact of COVID-19 on both our demand environment and our financial performance increased. This was especially visible in services, where the lower utilization of installations and customer focus on conserving gas affected spare part consumption, field service activities and agreement renewals. Equipment deliveries have also seen some delays as mobility restrictions have prevented access to customer sites and production volumes in our factories have declined. While component availability has not been a major issue for us, virus containment measures have increased logistics and site costs. We talked about it earlier. We have taken actions across several fronts to mitigate the COVID-19 impact, to moderate the effect on our financial performance. Short-term cost saving actions were announced earlier this year. And we realized the first savings of approximately 30 million euro during second quarter, thanks to both reduced discretionary spending and work time reductions. With regard to our cash flow and financial position, we have successfully focused on receivables collection and strengthened our liquidity reserves. If you look at the key figures, order intake came down in all businesses, and also affected our services order intake, and this is the effect of COVID-19 mainly. Order book is a bit lower than previously. Net sales maintained at the same level, but our services net sales declined. And that had an effect on our profitability, as you will hear later. And the comparable operating result came down, but that was also affected by the COVID and the mix in our sales. I want to highlight the cash flow from operating activities, which is one of the key targets we have been focusing during the second quarter. And this number is probably the highest in second quarters during the last 10 years. If you look at the markets, Vessel orders in the marine market remain at a very low level. Over 300 vessels contracted during the first six months. I remember times when you saw 300 vessels contracted during one month. So it has definitely affected our customers' situation. Energy markets, we have been at the stable level. We came down earlier because of large steam turbine orders. And if you look at the order intake on different businesses, you can see that in every business, except on portfolio business, the order intake has been coming down. This is a busy slide, but I think the key takeaway here is actually to see the effect from the cruise and ferry industries. Order intake in every segment and every business is actually coming down, and cruise and ferry is an important business in our marine area. Order book, as I said, a bit lower than previously. If you look at where the order book stays today, when delivering it next year and after that one, it has kept at least a bit next year level. But of course, we need to look at new orders also coming in for the coming years. Looking at net sales, again, pretty different messages here. I think that the first takeaway from this slide is, of course, that net sales in services has increased, and that has an effect, of course, to Wärtsilä's profitability. And if you look at the net sales by business type, you also see that spare parts percentages, the net sales in spare parts is coming down and that has an effect again to the profitability. So the mix, as I said earlier, in our sales is affecting the result. The breach of the net sales, I mean, you now see first time we can show the equipment organic sales and also how the services is coming back, coming down and the Forex FX impact of minus 29 million. With the mix and the COVID-19, those have definitely affected the profitability. COVID-19 is the most important element here today. When you look at the situation with our customers, some of the ships are not sailing, most important segments affecting us, and the restrictions of the traveling and in some of our plants on the energy sector, where they have been closed or it has been extremely difficult to work according to the schedules. Of course, now the countries are opening, and you see some areas coming back slowly. And of course, we all hope that this will gradually improve also Wärtsilä's situation. Highlight of the quarter, cash flow pretty good. And I also have a slide of the working capital here. You can see we have really been concentrating on trade receivables. We have been looking at the working capital situation totally. And of course, looking at the risks, what we have with our suppliers and customers. carrying 0.31 at the moment. A couple of slides of all the business areas. I start with marine power. Here, marine power has been definitely affected by the cruise and ferry segment situation. And also, if you look at the profitability, it has weakened primarily due to the unfavorable mix, less services, more new building, and the weaker fixed cost absorption. Here you have a now slide of our marine installations under agreement by Netsales. And during this second quarter, Wärtsilä has created new solutions to our customers. One is a new remote service to overcome the travel restrictions. So we have introduced the Assured Operations Remote Support, which is definitely a new way for our customers remotely to improve their efficiencies and the operations of their ships. In marine systems, the order intake also decreased, net sales increased a bit. And of course, if you look at the order intake, the effect is coming from the scrubbers. Today, the fuel spread between low sulfur and high sulfur fuel is so low that all the retrofitting order intake in scrubbers is pretty much almost zero, and we need to wait before that actually starts coming back. New building orders, of course, you see here and there, but at the same time, when new building vessel order is down, it's affecting our scrubber. order intake. The profitability in marine systems increased, and it's because of the increased scrubber delivery volumes. Voyage now, also the first time you see the figures, and I also want to welcome here, for the first time in our call, Sean Firmback, the head of our Voyage, and you definitely will have questions to him regarding the Voyage and the business and the future. Here you see also the effect of the COVID-19 project postponements and less transactional service business. On the voyage side, it's still good to see a highlight here, which is the digital services, which has been increased tremendously during the last year. And this is the connection again to the smart marine ecosystem, where you get the connected vessels enabling significant cost savings, faster and safer voyage planning, on-time arrival, less anchorage and transparent ship-to-shore data, which is the future of the maritime industry, and that's why we also keep investing in Voyage to be able to utilize all the benefits going forward. Moving on from marine industry to energy, order intake increased, but at the same time, again, a major new deal in South America, 200 megawatt flexible baseload power plant order. And this is again showing in challenging times what our people can do and the organization's capabilities to negotiate excellent deals going forward. Energy installed based on long-term service agreements, no major change. Of course, this is an area where we should also start seeing increased long-term service agreements, but COVID is again affecting the utilization of these agreements. And when you look at the energy by different areas here, Americas during the second quarter has of course been, and this is by the way the first six months, so also the previously announced two deals in Latin America is clearly can be seen here in these numbers. But as such, as I started my presentation, the COVID-19 outbreak and the measures taken to contain the pandemic will materially impact the demand for Wärtsilä's solutions and services and as well as the company's financial performance 2020. Today, the full impact cannot be quantified. And this is the reason why Wärtsilä withdraw the market outlook at the end of March. And we cannot see, the visibility is not so good at the moment. So unfortunately, it's not possible to say anything more about the markets this year. I end up with this one, and now we have the possibility to go for questions and answers, and if I could once again remind, we have always been having a great way to do the questions and answers, that you ask one question and one follow-up, and then please go back to the line, so that we can have as many questions from as many persons also today. Please, operator.

Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press the hash key. We're now taking our first question from the line of Sven Weyer. Please ask your question.

Yeah, good morning, Jaco. Thanks for taking the questions. The first one would be just on the service business and the decline you had on the sales side. I was just wondering if it would be possible for you to kind of give us a feeling how much of the decline was really triggered by travel restrictions and could therefore reverse now in the coming months. and how much was really kind of a weak end market demand, if that would be possible. That's the first one. Thank you.

Of course, the travel restrictions and the overall situation in different countries is affecting quite a lot of dealings with our customers, decision making. It's difficult to say a percentage or exact numbers. But overall, when you look at sales in different segments, of course, for example, many ships, not only in the cruise and ferry segment, ships are idle, and if you don't operate something, or if your power plant is not producing as much as it should be, because of the overall economic activity has been lower in many countries. So that's one reason. But I'm happy to see that even with remote teams meetings we can negotiate and sign deals like now the latest one in South America. But it's I still say that having people to travel and see customers and negotiate the solutions would definitely help.

But have you seen that at least towards the end of Q2, now beginning Q3, that the situation has improved on the service side? I mean, that could be one indicator, but whether it's only travel or the other thing.

I would like to say that there are some positive indications, but at the same time, Sven, you also know that in certain areas the situation is probably getting worse again. We have heard stories about Australia, we all know what's going on in the US, Brazil, so... Yeah, some areas are opening, and it goes country by country. Of course, now Europe is opening this week, Monday. I mean, a lot of our people have been able to travel in Europe. And I only wish that this will be now going further and forward without any new outbreaks.

Yeah, that's clear, Jaakko. And the second question, I had was on the order intake in marine. Marine power, I mean, as you said, it was weak, but I guess going by the yard orders, one could have expected it even to be weaker. And I noticed you had quite a number of order intake announcements during the quarter in marine. So that seems that maybe on the more special side of marine, there is still some activity. I mean, should we expect that kind of activity also to continue in the second half? Is there more life on that end of the market?

Thank you, Sven. I would actually like to get Roger Holm on the line. Roger is now head of marine power, and he knows exactly what's going on with different yards. Roger, please. Can we get Roger?

Can you hear me, Jaakko?

Yes, now we can. Great. Roger, please.

Very good. Very good. Thank you for the question. Yes, I would agree with the comment that it was still fairly okay order intake from a new build side in a quite challenging market. And there are projects ongoing. And even if the Estimates for vessel orders for the remaining part of the year has been taken down. And for sure, I don't think we will see new orders coming in on the cruise side for new built vessels. But in other segments, there are still activities even rather limited. So we need to follow this closely and see how it's proceeding. But there are activities in the pipeline, yes.

Okay. Thank you, Jaco, and thank you, Roger.

Thank you, Sven.

Thank you. We are now taking our next question from the line of Maxi8 from Credit Suisse. Please ask your question.

Thank you. My first question would be on thinking about profitability into the second half. What I'm trying to understand is if we stay at the kind of current H1 revenue levels, should we be seeing the normal sort of seasonal pickup in H2 profitability or is the sort of pricing, the contracts and the backlog not consistent with that normal seasonality. I'm just trying to understand what are the key things, how much visibility do you have on that second half pickup in profitability based on the backlog? Or if not, could you maybe talk about what the kind of key puts and takes are that will drive margins back to double digit levels in the second half? What are the key risks and opportunities around that?

Thank you, Max. I don't want to start indicating where the second half is, but I'll give you some Food for thoughts. And of course, if you look at the first half, as we have indicated, of course, the COVID-19 has a tremendous negative impact to the profitability. And let's see how that develops. That will definitely affect our second half also and the whole year. How much? I don't know. You also know that we have had, and the mix is as it has been at least on the second quarter, when deliveries of new buildings are higher than the sales of services. That's affecting the profitability. And it's good to remember that we still have some of those old distressed projects going out this year, as we have communicated earlier, with zero margin. And that's also affecting the profitability. So getting back Ultimately, the distress projects are out, ultimately. As I said, after this year, we shouldn't have anything anymore, and we don't have any new cases. Then you need to look at how the COVID effect will ease out also our customers to use services and then, of course, to get back in the business. I still say that the second half is going to be extremely challenging, because anything that is happening regarding COVID-19, all the elements and movements are extremely slow.

Okay. Just my follow-up would be on scrubbers. I think you referenced a good quarter of deliveries in Q2. It would be really helpful if you could just comment on exactly how much the revenue contribution was in Q2 and what you're expecting for the full year in terms of scrubber deliveries from that. Obviously, backlog we know was built up in previous years. Thank you.

Thank you, Max. And I would like to take Tamara de Kruter here on the line. Tamara is head of marine systems and, of course, looking very carefully where we are with our exhaust cleaning system. So, Tamara, can we get you on the line?

Good morning. Can you hear me?

Yes. Yes, yep. Yeah, Tamara, go on.

Good morning. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Yes. Thank you for the question. And I think that when you look at the scrubber delivery, as you rightfully said, we are now actually going through a boom from the retrofit that we kind of booked in the past. And actually, after maybe a bit of a challenge due to the COVID in the first part of the year, we definitely see that the Asian yards are up and running again, trying to catch up their delivery schedules. So if all goes well, I would say in Asia and there's no second round of COVID, then we actually expect to be on the same level as in 2019 on our deliveries for the scrubber. And so far, I would say so good. Second quarter was quite strong. And we also expect that the second part of the year will actually bring us to the 2019 level.

Okay, can you just remind me, I think that's about 350 million of revenues, but I'd love clarification on that.

Yeah, I think probably it's difficult to give an exact number, but it wasn't around that one, but more around, let's say, 250, 300 ones.

Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you. And next one, please.

Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Tommy Rilo from BNB. Please ask your question.

Hi, Jaakko. This is Tommy from BNB.

I was wondering about the service development being down in marine by 20% roughly, spares 13%.

Can you comment the development on the different end markets? For example, how much was the cruise down in the second quarter?

Thank you, Tomi. And may I get Roger back to the line, the biggest service and spare part element is in marine power. And Roger, could you go through how the services in cruise is developing?

Yes, absolutely. And thank you for the question. If I look at this from a marine power angle, we had field service was down with more than 20% comparing to the same quarter last year and spares was more than 15% down. And really the main impact, we have seen impacts on all segments, but by far the biggest one and most significant is really from cruise and ferry. So this is the segment that has the hardest. And if I can have a follow-up, have you seen any price pressure in terms of the service demand or sales? Sorry, could you repeat that again?

Price pressure.

How is the pricing situation? I at least had an echo on my line, so I couldn't hear it again. Could you say it again, please? Apologies. How is the pricing situation? Ah, okay. Yes, especially on the new build, the price pressure has continued, and of course this is due to overcapacity both among equipment suppliers as well as the yard side. Then I think on the service side this has more related to the overall need for services and the timing of when the customers are doing services and if the equipment is running at all. So I think we have seen different impacts on on the service side versus the new building side. Thank you. And maybe, Jaakko, you could comment on the savings. You said, I think, 30 million for the second quarter. How does it look for the second half of the year?

We started this 100 million program after the first quarter. So the first 30 million is there. And then of course, this program is on track. And of course, we expect to go accordingly during the year. Thank you.

Thank you. We are now taking our next question from the line of Edward Maravanica. Please ask your question.

Yes, good morning, Jaco. So my question relates to the movement in the net debt position. To what extent would you say that improvement is also just due to you having to hold maybe lower inventory levels or lower stock levels, just because of the more depressed outlook this year?

Somehow, I couldn't hear the question, Edward. Sorry, the line was a bit... Okay, sure.

Can you hear me now, sorry?

Yes.

Hello?

Yes.

Yes. Okay. So I was just asking on the working capital movement and just asking to what extent maybe the group having to hold lower inventories or lower stocks this year has also helped the working capital position.

Totally working capital. Of course, it has an effect if activities are a bit lower, but I would still say and argue that the whole working capital management has improved. And first of all, of course, looking at the stocks, I mean, we don't manufacture anything before we actually get the deal signed with the customer. We are looking at the receivables and so on. So overall, I would claim that All the effects, all the attention which is now put on that one, and definitely also on the cash flow, has played a significant role.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Sebastian Quenne from RBC Capital Market. Please ask your question.

Hi, gentlemen. I will speak slow. The sound is not very good here. You mentioned the 100 LNG vessels that Qatar has ordered in South Korea. I'm a bit concerned that these vessels will be equipped with two-stroke engines and that South Korea is basically bypassing Wazir for the propulsion engine. How do you see your chances to get business there on these ships? That would be my first question. And I have one follow-up.

That's a good question. First of all, it's good to remember that when it comes to LNG vessels, Wärtsilä has a huge amount of different possibilities to offer solutions. If the ships and when the ships are two-stroke engine fitted, Of course, Wärtsilä is not on the two-stroke business anymore, so they will be either MAN or our earlier partner, CSSE's two-stroke engine. But they always have four-stroke auxiliary engines running on LNG, and definitely Wärtsilä will play and has a tremendous role on that one. then we definitely have a possibility to look at the gas systems, what comes from all the offerings we have from our gas solutions, and ultimately also on the voyage. And there, of course, I would like to get Sean Firm back on the line. And Sean, I think you are actually doing quite well what comes to the initial phases of the Qatar Thank you, Jaco.

Yes, indeed. It was a good order for us. And it's mostly in the automation and in the NavCom space. So, yeah, very pleased with that.

And definitely those ships could be, when you look at the future of the voyage, could play an important role.

Oh, definitely, definitely. I mean, Voyage is really at the beginning of its journey in terms of rolling out a suite of digital services and FOSS, which is one of our main products today, is scaling very, very well and is reflected in the numbers and as is a common theme here this morning related to COVID, this is a huge restriction on us being able to to book sales out on FOSS because of restricted access to vessels and to yards. So, yes, we see a huge opportunity as we connect more and more vessels to shore and we improve and roll out our extended suite of connected services that this will scale right across, well, actually right across all sectors, both merchant and in cruise ships.

Good. Thank you, Sean. Sebastian, did you have another one?

Yeah. One on the cost savings. I hear that you put 3,100 workers in Finland on furlough, so they're not working at the moment. And I guess part of the savings you had comes from this. I understand that the government only pays 90 days of salaries for these workers. What are you planning after that period, which will then probably run out in the middle of Q3? What are you doing with these workers?

Yeah, of course, if you have a worker on a temporary layoff and it lasts a certain period, then the worker comes back. But at the same time, we also initiated our new organizational structure, which also looks at the capacities we need and the people consequently, and that has an effect to Värtsilä's future. We need to look at all the possible scenarios. I personally really hope that the world comes back and we don't need to worry about these temporary layoffs. But it's too early to say anything about it. It follows again the same situation we have with our guidance that we need to get back to those questions and issues later on.

Understood. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

thank you we are now taking our next question from the line of robert davies from morgan stanley please ask your question uh hi thank you for taking my question one of you could just um flush out a little bit more color around what you're seeing on the energy side of the business we particularly interested in some of the different regional dynamics um particularly the sort of regional differences between oe and service that you're seeing at the moment and then the second one was just maybe within the energy business again, whether you can give us some color on what you're seeing in terms of backup for renewables versus traditional power generation. I'd be interested in any differences between OE and aftermarket on that side of the business too.

Thank you. Thank you, Robert. And I hope I can get Marko Vireen also on the line. Marko, this is your last quarterly report in Värtsilä, and you got excellent two questions, so please.

thank you i hope you can hear me well yes yes if you look the different regions we definitely see that america has been developing well and we see also good pipeline and prospect in that area in addition to america i would say that in asia we see also very good opportunities There are different countries that are hard hit by the COVID, but if you look at underlying demand and need for energy, we see opportunities there as well. Then if you look at the backup power of renewables, we definitely see that decision makers during this COVID period have realized the need of flexibility in their systems. And if we haven't seen, we have the energy transition lab that we have created during the COVID period where you can read all the facts regarding the energy in the European market and how that is working. And this is actually showing how the future will be when you have a lot of renewables in the region. And this is applicable for all different countries and regions in the whole world, not only in Europe. Because during COVID, when demand went down on the industrial side, the renewables in Europe produced basically 100% of all the energy needs that there were. And when renewables are going up and down, the inflexibility created the huge problems for many countries. Like Germany, for example, had to sell excess energy with negative prices to neighboring countries. And this has created discussion among decision-makers that we definitely have to have much more flexibility in our systems going forward. And I believe that also if you look at the discussions that we've seen among decision-makers, the stimulus packages are most likely to be addressed for this kind of development going forward.

Thank you. And one follow-up, if possible. Could you just give us a little more color on the expected trajectory in terms of sort of profitability in the voyage business over the medium term? If and when that business sort of gets to critical mass, where do you see a reasonable profitability level for that business? And do you have any idea at this stage of timing based on your investment plans? Thank you.

Thank you, Robert. And Sean, could I get you, Sean Fernback, back on the line and talk about the Voyage profitability?

Yes, thank you, Jaakko. Thank you, Robert, for the question. So we're still at a fairly intensive period of investment within Voyage. And if you look now that we're a separate business unit to what was the former marine business, which is great. We have full autonomy. We have the ability to create a very different operating model for it so that we can innovate much faster and deliver faster to the market. But as you know, we're a composite of roughly five very key strategic acquisitions that have been made over this last five years. And so we carry substantial amortization of those acquisition costs on our P&L. That said, we are now looking to, as a result of changing this operating model to improve our cost base, but also we certainly see with growth in a number of sectors across the Voyage portfolio that we should be pushing into profit, I would like to say at this stage, within the next coming few years. Okay.

Okay, great. Thank you for the call.

Thank you. Thank you. We are now taking our next question from the line of Madvendra Singh. Please ask your question.

Yes, hi. Thank you. Thanks for the call. I just want to understand the dynamics on the backlog side, how comfortable you are with the levels and given your book to build and so on, how long do you think this backlog covers you in terms of sales and all? And when do you start to get concerned around these levels?

Thank you for the question, and I had a slide on that one. It clearly says, of course, the backlog for this year, that's a good one. And of course, next year, we still have room in that one. When should we be concerned? A bit difficult to say because in some of the segments, some of the products, some of our solutions, you can still get order intake next year and still deliver at the same year. And of course, at the same time, we have our services book, and we only, as you know, we only calculate the first 24 months of that one, and there is still on the long-term book even more volume. One question would always be that what if you start seeing cancellations and the order book starts going down because of those. So far we haven't seen any major cancellations and luckily our customers are keeping their promises. And as you saw, we also took 270 million out of the order book by ourselves, because we have stricter rules. We want to be sure that the customers are following according to the contracts and perform. So I'm not concerned at the moment, but I'm also looking forward to see that we should get orders. And so far we have been doing quite well.

And just following up on the demand trend within equipment versus services side, as the situation normalizes post-COVID, where would you expect faster recovery in demand, equipment or service side? Yeah.

I would definitely hope that we could start seeing something going on in services. Of course, spare parts is an element. So far, I think energy has been performing a bit better than marine, and marine has been affected heavily by the cruise and ferry business. Let's hope the cruise liners can start finally their operations, and that would definitely help our situation.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. We are now taking our next question from the line of Felix Henriksen from Nordea.

Hi, Jaakko. It's Felix from Nordea. On energy, you were able to sign the energy order later in the quarter, which you pre-announced this week. So I was wondering, how are the negotiations evolving in energy, taking into account the easing of movement restrictions and the all-around uncertainty in energy? So should we credit this sort of to the easing of movement restrictions, or was this sort of an order that had been under negotiations for a while now, and the timing of the signing happened to take place in June?

Thank you, Felix. And Marko, could you open it up? Because this is quite interesting today, what we do.

Yeah, definitely. Thank you for the question. And this special deal actually was totally negotiated by video conferencing. And this is the new way that we see that many of our customers are now accepting that we do the negotiations and agreement sign. We sign also agreements remotely and have even ceremonies by video. And I would say that it varies a lot between different countries and also there's a different rules in different countries that might hinder this kind of video conferencing negotiations and signatures made by video conferencing. But more and more customers are accepting the situation and are willing to do this kind of negotiations nowadays.

Okay, thank you. And then perhaps a follow-up on services on the energy side. So how far are we from sort of a normal situation in terms of accessing customer sites for service and maintenance? And could you perhaps comment on how the service sales growth improved throughout the quarter, sort of on a month-over-month basis?

Marko.

On the energy side, we definitely have a lot of restrictions still. And every country that has restrictions when it comes to the quarantine, if you enter a country, and also quite often when you leave the country and get back to your home country, you have to have the 14-day quarantine. So these are, of course, extra costs that we are taking ourselves. And this is definitely affecting our profitability also. This hinders also that we cannot do all the work that we could do or should do. And that's why most of our customers are in these regions postponing the maintenance and also affecting our ability to do these kind of service works.

Okay, thank you. That's all for me.

Thank you.

Thank you. We are now taking our next question from the line of Antti Suttelin from Danske Bank.

Thank you. Hi, this is Antti. I would like to go back to marine service. Do you think that this was the bottom in Q2, or could the second half be even weaker in top line for marine services. That's the first one, please.

Thank you, Antti. And again, Roger, you have the biggest service portfolio and customer base, so could you help us?

Thank you, Antti. It's a good question and it's a tricky one. If you look what happened in Q2 and look at the transactional business we had then in marine power, June was better than May. So, so far May was the bottom. So, looking at it from a positive angle, we have then started to move in the right direction. But I would still claim that the key for us is really that the cruise vessels start running. It has a big impact on on our transactional business that we get them back in operations. And of course the same applies for ferries as well. But we have started to see that ferries during the month of June has been operating more than during May. So the direction has been positive, but of course we have been moving from a month of May that was really, really low in a volume perspective. So I would say in conclusion, it's too early to say still, but some positive indications are there, and then the key measurement is really that the cruise vessels come back.

So I know that this is difficult, but since you are so close to the market and you speak with your cruise and ferry customers, what would be your expectation I mean, I guess the ships won't be idled forever. When do you think, when would you expect the ships to start running again?

Roger.

We are seeing some vessels, especially in Europe, coming back now already early August. And what is happening is that we see cruises then that comes from one country going back to the same country and partly also with restricted amount of guests on board. So these are the cruises that we see starting up now. Then I think to be back to COVID, pre-COVID level will take time. That's too early to judge yet. And the US market here is the most important one from a cruise perspective. So before we are back to pre-COVID on a total market perspective, we talk about fairly long time. But the positive angle is that we start seeing activity is now coming back slowly.

All right. That's helpful. Thank you.

Thank you, Antti. Do we have... Okay. All right. Now it's 11 o'clock here in Finland. Thank you, everybody, for great questions. Thank you for joining us today. I hope you all will have a great summer. Be safe. Safety is an extremely important issue within Wärtsilä. And see you then in October. Thank you. Bye-bye.