Worldline Sa Ord

Good evening, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Worldline Q3 2025 Revenue Conference Call. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Pierre-Antoine Vacheron, Worldline Group CEO. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Thank you, operator, and thanks a lot. to all of you for joining our Q3 revenue call. Before we begin the presentation, let me welcome Srikant Sethshadi, who joined as our new CFO last month and who is here with me today. Some of you may have spoken to Srikant already and you'll have the opportunity to meet him, obviously, at our Capital Market Day on the 6th of November. I must say I'm super happy to have Shrikant on board with me. He comes with extensive experience at Alstom, and I can tell you that he already has a big impact on the organization. So maybe to start with the key highlights, I will not comment on the whole slide, but what you can see on this slide is that Q3 has again been super active as this management is acting with a true sense of urgency to put the company back on track. Our Q3 revenue performance is in line with expectations, with the good news of stabilization of revenue at merchant services versus last year's Q3, and the slowdown of the decline on financial services. that Srikanth will comment more, combined with the underlying trends that we see, allow us to confirm the guidance of July in a narrow brand between €830 million and €855 million of adjusted EBITDA and a free cash flow including the increase of financial costs that would be between minus 30 and 0 plus, depending on the ABDA. This performance of Q3 is linked to the positive impact of the measures that we have taken since April. As you remember, one of our key challenges was the unavailability of next-gen Android-based terminals. This topic is almost behind us. which enable the management, together with the improvement of customer satisfaction, to stabilize the churn in several geographies. Same with the ramp-up of our soft posts, which proves to be super competitive in the various segments and verticals where we deploy it. It's not big volumes, but it shows that our line is well-positioned in emerging customer journeys. The successful launch of Wiro with the first pilot in Germany, the fast ramp-up of GoPay e-commerce offering in the credit agriculture branches, the commitment of several enterprise merchants to migrate to GoPay are other testimonies of a world line in motion. And I could give other examples of this, notably in financial services, with the successful deployment of cards from our next generation issuing platform within the portfolio of a large Dutch bank. During Q3, we finalized the review of our merchant portfolio and the assessment of our risk framework. What is super important for you to get is that we confirmed today, based on the results on the analysis done by Accuracy, that the group merchants acquiring and collecting portfolios is generally mature and that no material off-boarding is expected beyond the merchants that were already off-bordered since 2023. We are also continuing the review of the technical orchestration layer that could lead to some decommissioning of some merchants, but the impact in 2025 will be marginal. On their side, Oliver Wyman concluded on the assessment of our compliance and risk framework. Their evaluation confirms that Worldline has made significant progress in enhancing its risk and compliance framework in the recent years. The AML framework and governance, according to them, are well-defined according to benchmarks, but we need to improve the harmonization of their implementations across entities which we knew. This is what we are committed to do through industrialization and automation across our global competence centers. As you know, our transformation roadmap includes the divestment of assets which we consider as non-core. To today, we announce our entry into exclusive negotiations regarding the contemplated, sorry, divestment of Worldline North American activities for an enterprise value of 17 million, 70 million of Euro. Worldline North America provides online and in-person payment services to SMBs across Canada and the United States in the range of specialized verticals, and this perimeter represents a turnover of 60 million of Euro in 2024, and $8 million of adjusted EBITDA. This contemplated transaction is a significant milestone after METS. In our journey to simplify the scope of this company, it is expected to close in the first quarter of 2026, subject to usual customary approvals. Regarding METS that we announced last July, the process is progressing as expected. The signing of the Share Purchase Agreement is expected in the coming weeks, while the closing of the transactions should happen in H1 2026. Ahead of this and in anticipation of the disposal of METS, we have decided to move to the next phase of simplification and streamlining of the organization. As you know, we renewed the leadership team in the last month to have greater diversity and increase the range of competencies. In the past few months, we have welcomed Candice Dion to head our technology operations. Srikant has joined as new group CFO. Annika Grant as group head of HR, and Madalena Cascais as new head of financial services. To make it simple, as Merchant Services will represent something like 80% of the revenue of the company, we are going to drive our Merchant Services business directly at the EXCO level, tailoring the organization. I will take myself direct ownership of the go-to markets while Candice will take ownership of the operations. This new setup will help maximize synergies between SS and MS and have a direct grip on the transformation journey ahead that I'm looking forward to share with you at the CMD on November the 6th. I would like now to hand over to Trikant who will enter in detail in the performance of the Q3 in our various business lines.

Thank you, Pierre-Antoine, and good evening, everyone. I'm very happy to join you for my first results call at World Life. I'm aware of the challenges we are facing, and I've been working with the refresh management team across the organization, and we're all quite motivated, highly motivated, I would say, to deliver the Teleron plan to restore growth and cash generation potential. Now, looking at Q3 2025, Worldline delivered external revenue of €1.15 billion in line with expectation, representing an organic decline of 0.8%, with merchant services decreasing 0.1% or down 3.5% on a net-net revenue basis. The lag in NNR versus published revenue was mainly due to merchant and product demand. Financial services was down 4.5% with a decline versus H1 moderating after the end of client and sourcing in account payment division. And finally, MET revenue was up 0.6%. Turning on the next page to the detailed segment analysis. In merchant services, we delivered Q3 revenue of 862 million euro, broadly flat year on year in organic terms, but underlying was slightly higher year-on-year when excluding the hardware-based effect, looking at the trends by go-to-market. In large enterprise, the segment was impacted by lower performance on terminals, as Pierre-Antoine was alluding to earlier, as well as lower volumes in the retail vertical. On the positive front, our acquiring business has stabilized with good performance in Italy and in the Nordics. Our travel and hospitality franchise continued its momentum thanks to new client wins and growth of a business with existing clients. As illustrated by the logos on the side, our offering for airlines continue to expand. We notably signed a partnership with Yipei in China, where Yipei will be integrated into our dedicated travel hub platform and our acquiring capabilities. We also signed a couple of new customers in the hotel space and expanded our offering with Arabian Oud in retail and the Avis Budget Group. Then in the small and medium-sized business, while our performance was affected by the lack of availability of next-gen terminals in certain markets, this issue has been materially fixed, and our solutions are being rolled out. The stabilization of our churn has thus been confirmed during the summer. Our growth dynamic in Central Europe remains robust and broad-based across all verticals. Last in our joint ventures, we continue to see solid market share gains in Italy, thanks to progressive migration of Credem and CCB merchants. On the other hand, Germany performance was more difficult in acceptance and in terminals. Although situation has improved in SMB main channels, i.e. direct and savings bank, the partner channel is still suffering. Now looking at the FSQ3 revenue developments. Card-based payments processing revenue was broadly stable. We benefited from new contracts as well as upselling and volume increases on existing customers. These positive developments were partly offset by the descoping of certain activities of acquiring in Benelux and in Italy. Digital banking revenue was impacted mainly by lower SMS activity in France and to a lesser extent ideal volumes in Netherlands. Finally, account payment activities were held back mainly by a decline in transformation projects. Account payment was the main reason behind the drop of the segment's revenue decline, as the other two segments were broadly stable to slightly negative. In terms of commercial dynamic in Q3, Worldline won a contract with Guarantee Bank to plug in merchants for e-commerce acquiring services, as well as contracts with large banks in Italy and Netherlands for verification of pay, Vero Processing, and client migration to the target issuing platform. On mobility and e-transaction services, segment delivered positive organic growth in Q3. Transport and mobility sub-segment benefited from higher volumes in the UK rail sector and from higher activity in mobility projects and ticketing systems in France. In omnichannel interactions, we saw good growth in LCL in France, but faced a high comparison in license deals from the prior year. Finally, we had lower revenue and trusted services as a result of certain contracts coming to an end and lower volumes for our connected vehicle solution in France. In Q3, Worldline was selected by the French services and payment agency for the management, coordination and functional design of agricultural aid solutions in France. The business unit also renewed its contract with the rail delivery group in the UK for several years. Worldline will modernize and transform its service offering by migrating the solutions to a Google cloud-based service and replacing the existing ticketing software. Finally, on the guidance, based on the performance of the first nine months, we narrowed the 2025 guidance, which is still within the range of the guidance we provided on July 2025, a low single-digit organic decline in sales, an adjusted EBITDA of 830 to 855 million euros, and a free cash flow of minus 30 to zero plus. Before handing over to Pierre-Antoine to conclude the presentation, I would like to mention that we have a slide in the appendix related to the notional cash pool mechanism that would clarify several inbound questions from the financial community on liquidity management. I have looked at this setup, which has been in place at Worldline for over 10 years, where the subsidiary cash pooled into BMG, which is a subsidiary of ING, and used for offset at the parent to pay down debt. My conclusion is that it has been functioning smoothly and efficiently, and I'm willing to take more questions during the Q&A. We look forward to providing you more details on our transformation plan and the free cash flow outlook at the Capital Markets Day on the 6th of November. Thank you, and now I hand you back to Pierre-Antoine.

Thanks a lot, Sikant. So, as you can see, we achieved a lot during this quarter. As per plan, we fixed most of the urgent issues that we had in terms of product delivery, and Q3 revenue demonstrates that we are stabilizing our business. This allows us to confirm and to narrow the guidance for the full year. We deliver according to plan the divestment of non-core activities with the second announcement, and we simplify our operating model to drive efficiently our transformation and reduce our cost. I look forward to meeting many of you at the Capital Market Day in Paris in two weeks' time, where you will have the opportunity to meet a number of representatives from the Worldline top management, and where we will be outlining the group's ambition for the medium term. Thank you very much for your attention, and I'm now ready with frequent to take your questions.

Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, you will need to press star 1, 1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 1, 1 again. We will take our first question. And the question comes from the line of Frederic Boulan from Bank of America. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi, good evening, Pierre-Antoine, and welcome, Stricon. Maybe first question, Pierre-Antoine, on your thinking on HBA merchants. So as CEO, do you think the right approach is to keep all the merchants you can legally work with, or you want to add an extra layer of prudence and potentially get some more questionable segments? Maybe a question to Srikanth. You know, we'd love to have your initial impressions looking at the company with a fresh pair of eyes. Where do you see the strongest upside opportunity? Any thoughts on the cap structure? I mean, you mentioned the cash pooling structure, but we'd love to hear any thoughts at this stage around the kind of approach to cash, cap structure, credit position, et cetera. Thank you very much.

Thank you for the question. So I'll take the first one. So I think what is super important is that the framework that we have is, according to benchmarks, exactly where it should be in terms of standards of control. The question that we have, or the topic that we have, is to make sure that each and every regulated entity is applying exactly the same framework in the same manner so that we can ease the internal controls. On the portfolio, so the portfolio is again, I mean, we've done extensive screening, which gives us the comfort on the quality of the portfolio and on our ability to scrutinize it. So there is no reason to change the policy at the size of this company all the players to have this type of activities because that's part of the market that we are addressing. The point is to have the proper controls that we are not caught in reputational issues again. Obviously, what may happen is that considering the cost that you are encountering to control this type of merchants where the schemes are much more demanding than standard merchants, we may revisit the threshold of the merchants that we accept so that we have the good economic balance and risk-reward balance going forward.

Thank you Pierre-Antoine, and thanks for the question. As far as first views of being in one line, Two things are important for me personally, a sense of belonging, a sense of purpose, and I found that in abundance in one line. And the whole team is energized to deliver the plan. In terms of the specific question on the cash, again, there's been a lot of questions inbound on where we manage cash. The cash pool mechanism has been flexible operational model for the last 10 years and we can go further into it specifically if you have a question around the cash pool and in terms of managing our own liquidity. In terms of the capital structure and the overall financial plan, we will be dealing with that during the capital markets day.

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you.

Thank you. We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Justin Forsyth from UBS. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hey, good evening, Pierre, Antoine, and welcome to Cronth. Thank you for the questions here. A couple on my end. I wanted to go back to the cash flow. Apologies to pile on there. Maybe you could just talk a little bit about the minimum required operating cash at a subsidiary level. is there, whether it's on a per subsidiary basis, whether it's on an aggregate basis, I mean, I see that, and that's a great slide. Thank you for providing it. The 2.3 billion in cash you have at the subsidiary level, what is the minimum operating cash? Because I would presume you don't want to get anywhere close to hitting that level. Are you able to give any lean as well as to what your pro forma 3Q cash is, given all the questions that have been coming in on it? And Is there any increases or changes to your collateral requirements with Visa or MasterCard as a result of your change in credit rating or any increased capital requirements really anywhere across your operations? And then one follow-up, maybe you could just talk about the different dynamics in churn. I know you mentioned Germany specifically. Seems like things are not improving there. Maybe you could walk through a little bit in more detail the dynamics at play as someone taking share off of you? Are unit economics compressing? Is there certain verticals where you're seeing weakness? And maybe just articulate that in a little more detail. Thank you.

Can you repeat the last question? I'm not sure we got it.

Yeah, it was just related to the churn you were talking about in the slide deck in Germany. And just articulate a little bit of the puts and takes and what's driving it. Is it certain verticals? Is it certain activities? Are yields compressing? Maybe just talk about that in more detail.

Okay, Claire. Thank you, Justin, for these questions. So maybe I let Srikant start with your questions on cash flow decorators, and I'll come back on the business question on the channel.

Yeah, I'll start with your second question, Justin, and thanks for your questions. As a result of the S&P downgrade, we have not had any change into our business operations in terms of collaterals or anything of that sort. Now, in terms of the cash pool itself, as you see, there's 2.3 billion of cash in the subsidiaries, 1.8 billion is in the cash pool structure. And what we have announced during H1 in terms of trap cash was in the area of 70 million Euro, primarily in India and Asia. As in any company, we would like to strive to take actions on the level of subs cash, which is now used for working capital requirements locally and centralized as much as possible and reduce the level of cash held in subs. In terms of the global cash needed to drive the business, we're not a lumpy business, but we do keep a bit of cash for our intrasemester volatility. in terms of working cap, but as you see there, there is sufficient liquidity at the parent, and with the pro forma, and we did say that we had a 1.2 billion liquidity end of June, where we posted a 40 million euro of cash, and right now the pro forma is between minus 30 and zero, so I wouldn't expect the level of liquidity end of the year to be substantially different from that.

Okay. Thank you. And so to answer your question on the churn, to answer the question of the churn, sorry for that. So, I mean, one key element of the churn has been linked to the lack of availability of POS terminals. You know, all what I explained since April on the fact that we had missed the window of the Android next-gen terminals in several markets, which is something that we are finishing to cure as we speak. So that's the first element. The second element, because when you don't have the terminals, by definition, especially next-gen terminals, the small merchants are going somewhere else. The second reason has been a bit linked to that, but a decrease in the Net Promoter Score on several markets. which has obviously impacted the churn of SMBs. And the third element is something on which we are working and we will share some good news at the time of the CMD, is that we've been probably a bit passive in terms of digital journey for the small and mid-sized merchants. That's something that we are tackling now. and where we should be in a much more competitive position quite soon in 2026.

Got it. So just to make sure I'm crystal clear, one, you were talking about Germany as well for the availability of the point-of-sale terminals. And two, I guess, is there any validity to the idea that maybe you're not able to be in market as much, pushing out RFPs, trying to drive new sales because you're dealing with remediating a lot of these issues, and that's kind of hamstrung you a bit on the outbound sales perspective as well. Is there any of that tied into this?

No, no, no. It's not really the same teams which are taking care of that. And as you know, we have several channels to market for the SMBs. So we have direct channels. We have partners and increasing share of partners like ASVs in several geographies. And we have the banks, partners, especially in Germany. So the topic is not significant friction coming from the remediation, but it's much more the three elements that I mentioned.

All right. Got it. Thank you very much both. Appreciate it.

Thank you. We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Gregoire Herman from Barclays. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Good evening, everyone. A few questions for me, please. Just the first one on the revenue guidance for the full year 25. I think that still remains a bit a broad guidance. Could you be a bit more specific on what you expect Q4 to be like compared to Q3? Do you think we should expect any improvement? Then just on the feedback you made from the Oliver Wyman's review, This shows that basically there are uneven standards across entities. Do you expect extraordinary costs from actions you may undertake following this review? And then lastly, about the orchestration portfolio again, I think you mentioned in the press release that no material impact should be expected in 2025. Basically, how long still this review is going to last and should we expect any impact in 2026 as well? Thank you.

Thank you for those questions. Regarding the guidance, if you do the math, you will deduct that we do not anticipate acceleration in Q4. The low end of the guidance would be even some lower performance in Q4 versus Q4 last year as compared to Q3 versus Q3. We do anticipate And it could be better, but I prefer to be cautious at this stage. We do want CPED to be close to stable in MS. And we do want CPED to be more negative on FS because 2024 Q4, we had a number of milestones that we had reached and license that we had sold that we do not see as guaranteed in Q4. So that's basically the reasons that explain the low end of the guidance and since you have a project on FS where you have some uncertainty in terms of reaching the milestones, you have some still some uncertainty in the speed of recovery in some markets on merchant services, we prefer at this stage to have a range of guidance which I admit would be better if it was closer or smaller than what it is. Regarding the Oliver Weinman review, should we expect some extraordinary cost? So the question is, will there be investment to be able to be at the right standard everywhere? The answer is probably yes. We want to be much more industrialized, much more automatized that we are in terms of KYC, in terms of ongoing due diligence, and that will mean investments that will be part of the plan that we will share in two weeks from now. Last question on the orchestration. So we are not far from having assessed the ability of the merchants on which we have some questions in terms of their own license to get certainty or more comfort in their plans to remediate so that we can make the decisions of keeping them or not. So it's a question of a few weeks probably ahead of us. Okay, thank you.

Thank you. We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Hannes Lettner from Jefferies. Please go ahead, your line is open.

yes thanks um i would like to double click on the cash pool structure questions um maybe you can talk a little bit about like you mentioned in the past 500 million euros are necessary to run the business but given that structure it it feels that you need to keep more on subsidiary level so maybe you can keep uh um talk us through that what is the rationale there and how much more efficiency you can drive there And then the second one, maybe just to understand the MSV trends, given that looks like a flat quarter-on-quarter performance, and how does this relate to orchestration layer as a whole? Maybe you can quantify the size of the orchestration layer today.

Thank you. Thanks for your question. I'll probably take the first one. In terms of the subsidiaries cash, what we have said is the level of crab cash at 70 million. Then there are some cash in the subsidiaries which still need to be upstreamed through dividends and so on. We are working through optimizing those balances. They are lower today than the 500 that we had in December. Since we don't give the cash numbers, don't want to talk about them now. But that's clearly an area for us to work on to optimize it to the least possible amount. And that's all I can say in terms of the five, 600 million in terms of the cash that you've got in the past to run the business. I would say between 600 to 750 would be the amount of liquidity we'd like to keep.

Okay, and on the question of MSV, so as Srikant said, our NNR is still declining because of the mix of product and customers. But the MSV is, as you can see in the slide in appendix, is progressing clearly in the in Q3, sorry. I have a doubt because I think on the slide it's written Q2, but I think it's Q3. So Q3 is a plus 3% of MSV. The orchestration layer, it's a totally different story because it's just a pure gateway. So we are not at all in an acquiring or collecting business here. It's a pure technical gateway of orchestration.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Craig McDowell from JP Morgan. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi, good evening. Thanks so much for taking my questions. Just the first one, Justin mentioned it, but on the standard imposed downgrade of your credit rating, I'm just wondering to what extent that's coming up in client conversations, either prospective or existing clients. Is that having any impact? My second question, if you're able to give an update on investigations in Belgium and Sweden, how are conversations going with regulators there and any timeline for resolve? Thank you.

Okay, so on the first questions, obviously, I mean, Any downgrading is never good news for customers who are committed with you for a long period of time. So, following the downgrading, we had active dialogue with a number of financial institutions which are customers to our line, but no implication and no consequence of this downgrading as Fréquent said. On the second question, sorry.

And on the prospective clients, is it an issue when you're doing speak for all FPs and so on?

No, no, it's really not an issue. Obviously, everybody is expecting us to present our plan at the CMD, but all the dialogue I have had with the customers and I have met many of them over the last month, um i mean there is no no no no no significant concern once you have spent time to talk with to talk with them so the business is under control which is what is important for which is what's important for them sorry your second question i was just an athlete on the the swedish and italian sorry yeah thank you yeah so so um obviously the teams have been uh quite uh quite heavily solicited by the various audits that have taken place in several jurisdictions. And we are doing all what is necessary to be obviously transparent and to demonstrate where we stand. So usually those audits take some time, not only to be executed, but also to give their conclusions. So we We are, I mean, it will not come next week, but it will come, I mean, over the next, sorry, over the next month.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Florent Egnell from Citigroup. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi, good evening. Thank you for the presentation. I just wanted to come back on the cash pooling and the cash around the company. So basically you have 800 million of cash at the parent level. You have 2.3 billion of cash at the subsidiary level. Does this include any merchant cash at all, or the merchant cash is fully segregated and not including in those numbers? That would be my first question. And then, can you please explain why the cash pooling kept increasing over the last years and why don't you net it off every year? And the last question will be around working capital. How do you finance the merchant working capital? In your annual report you mentioned that there is one or two days of lag between receiving the payment and giving the cash to the merchant. How do you finance that? Do you use your own funds or is it a specific line and how should we think about that? Thank you.

Okay. So maybe Srikant will take the first questions. And I will take the two of those.

Thanks for your question. What we are calling as our own liquidity structure is how we have our bank account structure, which is the corporate cash account, there's a segregated account, and the safeguarded account. So there is no commingling between merchant cash and corporate cash. there is intermediation accounts where we have this net settlement. So there's no, the merchant cash is a separate liquidity structure as compared to our corporate cash accounts. Second one, in terms of your cash pool question as to why it's been increasing, the beauty and the flexibility of the notional cash pool is we've been able to use historically the solidary cash to fully be used at the parent in order to pay down group debt. So historically, as we have been able to pool more entities into the cash pool, we've been able to have more euros at the group level that is able to be paying out group debt. And therefore, that's why that's been widening, because against the widening overdraft, as it's been termed, which is in fact a pool offset, there is a much larger cash collateral in the subsidiaries. The only way to net it would be to physically move the cash and we can't net it within the, it's already netted in fact. So that's why over the period it's been growing. And for the third question I will defer to.

So I mean, in the, In the vast majority of the cases, we are settling the merchants once we have been settled ourselves. There are some markets where there is, by exception, because that's the market practice, settlement of the merchant that can happen before we are settled ourselves, and in those circumstances, we are usually using a third party to offer that facility.

Okay, thank you. Are you referring to Australia or any other countries where you have to find out?

No, I'm referring mostly to Australia and to some cases in Italy.

Okay. And just coming back on your answer about why the cash pooling has been increasing, what would happen if BMG were to pull the line, basically? How would you deal with that?

So first of all, we've been having that relationship with BMG for over 10 years, and we have a great relationship with BMG. So on the theoretical, hypothetical point that this was to happen, we still have a certain amount of time period within which we can actually go back to that point of netting that you raised and set up an inter-core loans and deposits. So again, all of those options are available. We have the notional cash pool, which has been run pretty well over the last 10 years, as I said. We have the inter-core loans and deposits. and we've checked internally on the regulatory aspects, we have no concerns to do that, and then we'll need to keep some working cap in the subsidiaries, or we can go into the physical cash pool. I come from the physical cash pool world in my previous company. All of those options are open. I'm one month into the job, so we'll review that on an ongoing basis and take the most efficient treasury decision for the company.

Okay, thank you very much.

And so, Anderson, we have the last question from Alex from Exxon BNP.

Thank you. Please stand by. Your final question comes from the line of Alexandre Faure from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi. Good evening. Thank you very much for squeezing me in. Maybe two or three things on my side. First of all, could you comment a little bit on macro over the course of the quarter, if there's been any inflection during the quarter or in October. Looking at your MSV slide, and obviously very stable, consistent with Q2, but I think this includes also contribution from the joint ventures, which are probably ramping up. So any commentary on same-store sales would be helpful. My second question, maybe moving to net revenues, could you give us a sense of the contribution from the joint ventures in Q3 and how we should think of that in the next few quarters? And lastly, on financial services, I mean, the quarter performance is what it is, and I heard what you said looking into Q4, but maybe looking a bit further out, is this kind of call it mid-single-digit decline, maybe low single-digit decline, how we should think of the division going forward and what's hurting so much in financial services, more broadly speaking.

Yeah. So... Sorry. So on the JV... Oh, yeah, so the macro, sorry. So first on the macro, I mean, I hope you appreciate that we don't claim for the macro. But I mean, clearly the macro is soft across Europe. There's no doubt about that. That benefits to the verticals, which are obviously the hard discounters, what we call the box moving verticals. to the detriment of more specialized retail, especially SMBs. So, I mean, I don't like to call for the macro, but it's clear that the macro doesn't help. Has there been significant deterioration? I wouldn't say so. It's a soft consumer context that we have, and we cope with that. On the second question, which is, So I don't think we enter into this level of detail, but the JVs, I mean, obviously, the JVs parameter is driving the growth, especially with some geographies like Italy, which is doing extremely well on the back of the migration of some merchant portfolio, as you know. Turkey also is doing very well in this group, in this perimeter. And Australia is not doing bad in Q3. Sorry? And Greece also is doing well, yeah, absolutely. And the third question, what was the third question?

Yes, on financial services and how... Yes, yes, sorry.

So, I mean, financial services, and we have the opportunity to share much more on that at the CMD. But basically, what happens today in financial services for Worldline is that there has been loss, contract loss, over the last three to four years, which are impacting us, which will... continue to impact us to some extent in 2026. And in the meantime, there has been very limited wins at significant scale by Worldline. Does it mean that the market does not exist or that the market is reducing? The answer is clearly no. And I can tell you, based on the discussion I have had and the project that I see with the large financial institutions, that the potential for growth on FS is significant. The topic that we have is to refill the pipeline of sales, which is starting, then it's to win, then it's to deliver the projects, and then it's to generate revenue. So it's a long cycle business, and when you have been to some extent off the market for several quarters, It takes some time to reinitiate the pump of our revenue, but I'm quite positive on that segment, and that's, by the way, the reason why Madalena Cascais decided to join the company.

Understood. This is helpful. Thank you.

Thank you. This concludes today's question and answer session. I will now hand back the call for closing remarks.

Thanks a lot. So I will not add a lot. As you can see, we are fully mobilized. Lots of good things are happening. We are now heading to the CMD, and we hope to continue restoring the confidence in the company going forward. I would say that's the most important topic that we have beyond the confidence of the customers. Have a great evening and thanks a lot for attending this call.

Thank you, everyone. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.