Acconeer AB (publ)

Hi and welcome to this live queue. Today we have Acquaneer with us with the CEO, Ted Hanson, presenting the second quarter results. This will be followed by a Q&A session. So if you have any questions, make sure that you fill out the form on the website and we will ask those later. But without further to do, I hand over to you, Ted.

Thank you and good morning to everyone. Nice to be here. So I'm Ted Hanson. I'm here to present the Q2 report for Acunir. I will have a very brief company introduction if there is anyone new following us, and then it will be followed by the Q2 earning report, and then a brief operational update. And as Asmus said, we will then have a Q&A session. Acunir, we are a leader in low power millimeter wave radars, Fabdesk Semiconductor Company, headquarter here in Malmö, Sweden. We develop and sell low power millimeter wave radar solutions. Our technology is based on research from Lund University, and we have a unique way of combining micrometer accuracy and extremely low power consumption. That is the key selling point behind the technology in this company. We have a global distribution and a sales network, and we have customers in more than 50 countries today. We are a supplier in the automotive industry, which is a strong testimony to the quality in our products. We have sold more than three and a half million sensors, and we are in more than 200 end products. We are listed on the NASDAQ First North since 2017. To the left, you see our A121 sensor, which is a 5.5 by 5.2 millimeter one TX1RX complete radar solution with antennas. And below you can see our key selling point or unique selling points. It is this extremely low power consumption with the micrometer accuracy in a very small form factor, high integration, giving a very robust measurement that works through plastic materials, rain, and different kind of weathers and temperature and so on. So that's a brief introduction to Akonir. If you look at the Q2 report, we saw a revenue of 10.5 million Swedish crown, which is a 30% decrease year over year. The gross margin of sales of goods was 60%, similar to the 61% we saw in the second quarter last year. We see a strong momentum in level measurement, presence and cargo tracking, These areas are growing significantly quarter of a quarter, despite a dollar that is trending down. We had a very low automotive sales in the quarter due to slow market combined with A111 inventory and the new models that are using A121 are in early ramp up phase. And we anticipate a gradual increase starting from this third quarter. It's also worth mentioning that the dollar has depreciated. And if you compare year over year, we have a 1 million SEC impact with a constant dollar exchange rate. So meaning that if we had a constant dollar exchange rate, we would have had 11.5 million SEC revenue in this quarter. Moving on, looking at the volume and customer launches. So we sold 200,000 sensors in the quarter and had 13 product launches. Nine of these launches were in our product areas where we focus most of our efforts on and four launches were in other areas. These launches outside the product areas were mainly in parking sensors, which you could argue is a type of a presence application. But historically, we have not placed it in that category. If you look in the graph, you can see that the pink part, which represent the volume of modules, increased in the second quarter. We saw a strong quarter for module sales. In fact, we got orders towards the end of the quarter, which we were unable to deliver within the quarter that will be sold in the third quarter. So there is a positive momentum around the module business as well. Looking at the P&L, as I said, we had a sales of 10.5 million with a gross profit of 7.3 million, which led to an EBIT of minus 8.26 million. If you compare that to last year, you can see that we have reduced the cost. The EBIT is roughly 1 million lower than last year, but the gross profit is 2.8 million lower than last year. If I look at the cost, so this picture here shows the total OPEX of the company, plus the A2 investments that we're doing, the capex of A2. That is not 100% of the cost in the company, but it's very close. There are some costs related to patents and A1 capex that it's not in this graph, but this is the vast majority of the total cost of the company. And we saw then in the second quarter this year a significantly lower cost base than last year, 15.5% lower actually. If you look at the first half of this year compared to first half of last year, it's down 11%. And with the changes that we have done and where we are in the A2 project, we anticipate continued OPEX decrease during the second half this year. Looking at the cash flow, I think it's worth mentioning that the cash flow from investing activities, which is mainly A2 investments, is 9.9 million in the second quarter compared to 12.7 corresponding quarter last year. So we can see that the investments are going down and we are approaching the end of the A2 project and it will go into commercialization phase. Cash flow from financing services, 24.8 million. That is the second part of the rights issue that is in the second quarter result. At the end of the quarter, we had a cash position of 69.57 million Swedish crown. I would also like to take the opportunity to reiterate the financial objectives for 2025 to 2027. These were communicated by the board in early 2024. and they are still valid. We are targeting the first EBIT positive quarter this year and the first cashflow positive quarter during 2026. And we see revenue of more than 300 million Swedish crown in 2027. And we target the long-term EBIT margin of at least 25%. Now I would like to go through our product areas and give a brief operational update. So as I have spoken about before, we are now focusing on six product areas, six focus areas. These are level measurement, presence detection, cargo detection, industry and automation, automotive in-cabin, and automotive access control. We also have candidate product areas that we are looking into that we are considering to develop offering and roadmap for and start to go to market with. The main candidates are vital sign monitoring for heart rate and pulse and breathing, robotics, obstacle detection, and gesture control to do the 3G gesture control with the radar. In the market today, we have two sensors, our AE111 and AE121. Both are one channel radar solutions, one TX, one RX. They are giving a very high accuracy and very low power consumption, smallest footprint in the market with integrated antennas. We're also selling modules and we do this to shorten the customer time to market and to give them a pre-qualified solution that they can go to market with easily. We see now there are more opportunities to sell modules in higher volume. And we're actively working now with several customers to bring the module business to a new level of volume. In addition to that, we have our A2. The first product out from A2 is the A212, which is a multi antenna solution with angular resolution. We also have integrated an extra MCU in the sensor where you can run the application and it provides increased range as well as angular resolution. This solution is sampling and we target to ramp up production early 2026. If you look at the product areas, the first one is level measurement. I've spoken about that before. We see there is an increased demand for accurate remote monitoring of inventory. This is a part of the mega trend where everything is connected to the cloud. Our technology, which we call PCR, the pulse coherent radar, really fits well with the requirements of this market. We have a very accurate sensor, extremely low power consumption, and also have the ability to measure close to the sensor accurately. With our technology, customers can develop products that can target many different types of tanks and type of level measurement applications with the same solution. Because of our low current consumption and high integration, it's also easy to install and maintain our products. We are expanding our product portfolio to target both small and large tanks, also work with different materials with different kind of reflectivity, and we are working on additional power consumption improvements to extend the battery lifetime. During the quarter, there were five customer launches, now have more than 25 customer in mass production in this market we made a software release i would say that we were already world leading when it came to power consumption but with this new software update we take another step and become even more power efficient we have a strong pipeline we are working with new customers but we're also working with existing customers to expand our market share within those customers. So a lot of good traction in the level measurement in the second quarter. The next area I would like to talk about is present detection. And also here we see an increased need for advanced human presence detection and non-intrusive monitoring, which is a strong match with the strengths of our radar solutions. This is one of the areas where we will focus on early with A2. because we can add new capabilities with A2 to presence. We can extend the range. We can do people counting and tracking. We can do classification of objects. And we see a very strong interest in combining presence with vital sign monitoring. In the second quarter, there were three customer launches, and we have started to distribute A2 samples to more customers. There are now more than a handful of customers that are evaluating A2. And there is a strong ongoing activity to convert these evaluations to design wins. And I would also like to take the opportunity to mention that we have received some initial feedback from some early customer evaluation. So some customers that has experience with our A1 sensors, they have experience with our main competitors, they have been evaluating A2. And they are giving very, very encouraging feedback on A2. They see that it really is a performance improvement compared to A1. And that is very encouraging for the work going forward. Moving on to the cargo detection, I would claim that we were early to see the opportunity in cargo detection. Also here, there is a strong trend to connect all containers and cargo to the cloud to track where they are. But in addition to tracking the position, there is also an interest to track how full the container is, if there is human presence, the integrity of the cargo, if someone opens the door, for example, if there are vibrations or if something has moved around. And the most important factor here is power consumption. And typically you would like to have 10 years battery lifetime or longer. We are now running projects and having dialogues with most of the large players in Europe, which confirms this potential. In the second quarter, we received the first larger order in this segment, an order of 3.3 million Swedish crown from a company called Digital Matter. We also released a reference application that has been tested in real-life environment, which will shorten customers' time to market and ease their integration. So a very good quarter for cargo detection, and we feel very comfortable and very positive about this market going forward. Moving on to industry and automation, So this is really about replacing inductive proximity sensors in industrial applications. Our technology is a good match. We can see also carbon fiber material, plastic materials that inductive sensor does not work for. In addition to that, we have the ability to measure accurately close to the sensor, which is a problem for our competing competitors with competing technology. We can also offer extended functionality, for example, distance measurement, speed measurement, and also vibration measurement. During the second quarter, we start discussions with several new potential customers to accelerate this market and to get faster to the market. In parallel, we keep working with our lead customer in this segment. And as I have said before, this market has a significant potential. It is a possible mass market for us, but it is a bit slower market. It's industrial application. It takes some time. So the work is progressing and we're doing the best we can to accelerate it by going after more customers now in parallel. Then moving on to the automotive market, there are two product areas in automotive. The first one is access control. And here it's really about improving the user experience. So you have a higher detection rate and you have a lower false detect rate. PCR, our technology offers superior performance compared to the capacitive traditional solutions. We have 11 models in the market and we're working with three of the world's top five OEMs. And we have a standard product with Alps Alpine that is on the shelf. It's available for all their customers. globally to integrating new car models. And during the second quarter, we saw a new car launched, the Jeep Compass. I think now we have a very strong solution here and we feel positive about winning additional business going forward together with Abseilpine. The other segment in automotive is in-cabin sensing. And this is about child presence detection and pet detection which is driven by regulation to make sure that you don't leave behind children or pets in the car. We have three launch car models and during the quarter we delivered the production variant of our A212 to the lead customer and it has been integrated and we are really, really proud and happy about the performance that we see in the real car. And we're looking forward to this model ramping up in early 2026. We also attended tech shows at two global car OEMs to promote our technology. So a lot of interest in interior detection, and there's a lot of interest in our products. So that was a brief update on the operational side. And now I will hand back to Rasmus for a Q&A.

All right, thank you very much for that presentation. We have received a lot of questions relating to your financial targets, so I think we can start in that end perhaps. So regarding the 300 million SEC target you have for 2027, could you give us a more detailed breakdown of the key drivers of this target?

Yeah, we haven't given a very firm split on what this 300 million SEC, how it is split out. But the ingredients that builds this 300 million SEC, first we have the A1 business outside automotive, where we see a positive momentum and we saw a strong growth quarter over quarter. So these are presence, it's the level measurement, It's the cargo detection and to some extent also the proximity and industrial automation segment. That part is growing and we expect it will continue to grow. As I have said before, we changed the strategy last year with a firm goal of winning larger customers that would generate larger volumes for us. And we start to see the first result of that. It is still an early phase and it will keep growing. And by 2027, I expect that business will be significantly larger than what it is today. So that's one significant part of the 300 million. The second part is, of course, the A1 automotive business. And I'm sure many of you follow Volvo. And yesterday they did their Q2 report, sorry. And they, yes, they did a write-off of the SPA3 platform, but they also confirmed that now the EX90 problems are resolved and the volume ramp up is happening now. They also confirmed that the ES90 volume ramp up is happening. So that is another part of that A1 automotive business is going to grow. We have also in total announced 26 design wins in automotive. And many of those cars will be launching and contribute in volume by 2027. The third part is the A2 automotive. And this is a new sensor. It is a much more advanced system. It has a higher selling price than A1. And also here we expect a launch in early 2026 with the key customer. And that means that there will be significant volume and significant contribution in the automotive of A2 in 2027. And then the final part is A2 outside automotive. And I briefly mentioned that we are now working or we have given evaluation kits to more than a handful of customers. We actually have a fairly long list now of leads that we are engaging with. You can see that we have customers in Asia, Europe, and North America, and they're all getting access to A2. Of course, not all of them will convert to design wins, but some of them will, and they will be launched during 2026. And they will also contribute in a significant, you know, in a meaningful way to the 300 million revenue goal for 2027. So there are basically four ingredients that are all growing and together we feel confident that we have a plan that leads to the 300 million goal in 2027. All right.

And we have received a few questions about the split between A1 and A2. But should we assume like an equal split between these two verticals or products or like is there any details you can give about that relating to this target?

I don't think I can elaborate more than what I did right now, that there are, you know, four ingredients and both of them or all of them will grow significantly compared to today to reach the 300 million goal.

All right. And you also have the positive EBIT target for 2025. And we have received a few questions relating to that. And two primary questions. One is like, how will you reach this? Is it primarily based on reducing costs further or is it more about growing the top line?

It's more about growing the top line and a small part is reducing the OPEX.

All right, and then we have a follow-up. If we should primarily expect this growth to come from non-automotive verticals?

The second quarter, the automotive revenue was at a very low level. So compared to the second quarter, there will be a significant increase in the automotive revenue as well in the second half. But there is also a growth in the non-automotive.

All right, so everything contributing basically. And you talked a little bit about it in your presentation relating to investments in the A2 product. And it seems like you are investing about 10 million SEC each quarter today. How should we... expect this to develop going forward? Do you expect similar levels of investments in Q3 and Q4, or should we expect it to decrease in the second half of the year?

I think it will be a similar level for the rest of the year. And the reason for that is even though we have done the tape out, we have the silicon, there is still investments in the production setup, in the test setup and those parts, which which we're still taking. So it's going to be a similar level.

All right. And I believe you have previously said that you expect this product to launch in Q3. Is that still the target?

I believe we have said that we target to ship some volume within this year and that the real ramp up will come early 2026. And that is still our target.

All right. And then when we look at the cumulative number of product launches that you have, there seems to be quite a lag between launches and when you actually get the net sales. So what is the typical ramp up period when a new product is launched?

It's very different in different segments. The closer you get to consumer electronics, the faster the ramp up is. And the closer you get to industrial applications and automotive applications, the slower the ramp up is, basically. So typically, consumer electronics, they will have peak volume one quarter or so after launch. And the car manufacturers, they talk about three years after launch when they reach the peak volume. So it's very different depending on the applications. And today, a significant part of our volume is from level sensing, and they are somewhere in between. For level sensing, the business case for our customer is gone if they would have to take the sensor back. The deployment of the sensor is expensive because they are put in tanks around the world in remote locations. And they don't want to come back and tune something or replace something. So they tend to have a slower ramp compared to consumer electronics to make sure that there are no defects so that they don't have to take any sensor back and go back to the site basically. So they are probably closer to the automotive in industrial applications.

Alright, that makes sense.

Sorry, Rasmus, there's one more. So for example, in the cargo tracking, where we saw a larger order during the quarter, yes, these companies are selling off-the-shelf products in their channel, but there are also tenders, biddings, and they happen irregularly, and when that happens, there will be a larger order coming. So that is something that I expect we will see more of, I hope we will see more of, that there are customers that are winning tenders. It could be private tenders, it could be government tenders, and then there will be some spike in demand because of those tenders.

All right. And is that something you have any form of visibility into?

Well, we are, of course, talking to our customers to understand their forecasts. And also understand, you know, normally they will have some requirement when it comes to lead time or warranty or technical support and so on in order to participate in those tenders. So many of those tenders we are collaborating with our customers in. So we have some visibility.

All right. And would you say that that pipeline has grown in the recent, like over the past few months or...

I would say that this is a new market that is being established now and those type of tenders were not there before. So definitely it's growing. And I think there is a significant potential because the feedback that customers get is very positive. And then I think that will help to spread and to roll out this faster. So I expect there will be an increased occurrence of this going forward.

All right. And then looking at the split between your sensor and module sales, there was a sequential increase in module sales, but it seemed like the average selling price was going down for the period when I'm trying to estimate it in my Excel models. Is there something you can comment on here in terms of mix or if this is an accurate estimate, basically?

Actually, I need to check if it's accurate estimate or not. I cannot answer that from the top of my head. But when it comes to modules, we are selling very high-end modules that has a high ASP. You can see on DigiKey they're selling for $20, $30, $40, $50. We're also selling entry modules, which is a smaller MCU and optimized package with our sensor that has a significantly lower ASP. And for the customers that are buying modules in higher volume, it tend to be the more kind of low end module because that is where most of the volume is. So that could be a factor in it. But the module selling price typically is several times higher than the sensor selling price.

Yes. That is why I was a bit confused when I saw the ASP decreasing while the modules were going up. But thank you for that answer. It has been over a year since a design win was announced in either child presence detection or the kit sensors. What is the current status of the commercial pipeline within these applications?

So I have said this before in the automotive market, we are partnering with Alps Alpine. So they are the channel to the automotive market. We have a close collaboration with them and we are supporting them. And I think now we have reached a stage where the access solution is very stable. It has great performance. It is an off the shelf product that is being promoted widely and any one of their customers can buy it. with a very limited effort from both Acunaire and Alps. So I expect that we will see more design wins in that sector because the product is great, the performance is great. The other side, the interior detection, we are working full speed now to launch A2 with interior detection. I think that will be an important milestone to spread a2 to more automotive manufacturers there is a very strong need for this type of product in the automotive industry however i also believe that there is an opportunity to sell a1 to more automotive customers and of course i would like to have seen more design wins as well i agree we would like to see more but we have to remember that the automotive industry is not the fastest industry. And when we put A1 out there in the interior detection, there is a lot of tuning that has been discussed before. There were some performance issue in some of the early cars. It takes some time to sort it out. Now I understand that the performance is quite good. It's performing very well in the market. And I think that will also give confidence for both, you know, Alps to promote it, but also for our customers to select this solution. So we are optimistic that we will be able to announce more design wins in automotive during the second half of this year.

All right. And since you mentioned the Alps Alpine here, we got a question about how does the communication work between Aquaneer and Alps Alpine in terms of Alpine wins a design win. How long does it take for them to communicate that back to you guys?

So we have a framework where it will be communicated, but um it's a it's a big company they have a a long you know internal processes and so on so there is a lag i cannot comment exactly how long this lag is but there is a framework where we will be aware of the design wins contractually so so we will you know learn about them but there is a lag in time

All right. And you have previously guided for major design win outside automotive sector during 2025. In which industry verticals do you see the most potential in the near term?

Near term, I'm very optimistic that we will keep winning more customers in level sensing. Also that we will spread to take a larger part of our customers portfolio level sensing. That is happening. We are working on several interesting presence with A1, and there is a very strong pipeline or interest A2 in presence, especially presence combined with Vital Sign. So those two areas, I feel there is a lot of potential short term. Cargo, we're happy with the progress that we have seen. There is also more to come. I would say that these three areas, short term, is where I will have most expectation that there will be a significant growth. And of course, compared to where we are today, there will be a growth in the automotive, as I said initially.

All right, thank you for that. And you had a very strong order intake during the quarter. Could you comment on how much of the orders that were announced during Q2 were actually delivered in Q2 versus what remains outstanding?

I would say that the majority was not delivered in the second quarter without checking all the details, but that would be my estimate. And the reason for that is that most of these larger orders... First of all, they come in with a lead time before they actually want to pick up the goods. And typically they cover one or two quarters in time. So my guess would be that most of that was not delivered in the second quarter.

All right. Outside the automotive sector, the frequent large volume orders appear to have slowed. Is there any particular reason behind this that you can share?

Sorry, can you repeat the question?

Outside automotive sector, the frequency of larger orders seems to have slowed down. Are there any key barriers to converting customers to making more recurring orders? Are they sitting with a lot of inventory, for example, or is there any other potential explanation behind this?

First of all, I'm not sure I agree with the analysis that it has been decreasing. I think if you compare to the same period last year, The frequency should be higher. But regardless, I would like to see an increased frequency of larger orders, definitely. And we haven't announced one now for some time. I agree with that. And why has that happened? I think that there are a couple of reasons. One, it's a bit stochastic when it actually happens. The second one is a large part of our larger customer base is in Europe and in the US, and there are summer vacations that are playing a role there. I know there are several interesting discussions ongoing. And also, finally, we have received orders that were below our threshold, but close to the threshold, and then we don't make a press release. So the policy we have is to make a release, a press release when the order value is above 1 million SEC. So if it's below that, we would not make a press release.

All right. And in the CEO letter, you talked about how automotive has been weak this quarter, but that you expect it to increase going forward from Q3. What indications give you confidence in that statement?

I mean, the order book for Q3 is better than the Q2 actual. So I think it's a certainty that Q3 will be better. In addition to that, I think that we see forecast trending upwards recently. It's still from relatively low level, but it's trending upwards. So those are the two factors. A better order book and a better forecast, basically.

Sounds like strong indications. The last significant order from your distributor, Nexty, was announced 18 months ago and was stated to cover the needs for 2024. Could you provide an update on current demand from this channel and clarify the expected timing and scale of future orders?

Yeah, so that was what I tried to... uh elaborate a bit on in the presentation and so the q2 was very slow market because of inventory of a 111 in the automotive you know channel and that is the product that we got this order for 18 months ago at the same time the new cars the new models are mainly using A121 and also A2 from early next year. And they are not yet scaled up. So that is the reality. So then the conclusion is that the A111 inventory lasted more than 2024, right? That will be the conclusion of what I just said. And the reason for that is, of course, the delays and the slow ramp up of the models that we discussed earlier, the EX90 in particular, but also the Polestar 3, which now finally are ramping up.

Okay, thank you for that. I just want to take the opportunity to all the viewers out there, if you have any questions, make sure you fill out the form so we can ask them while we have Ted here. But moving on, given the current cash balance and burn rate, what is your liquidity runway and how comfortable are you with the current balance sheet?

So we have taken out cost and we started to do that uh early q4 last year and we are committed to make this cash last until we are profitable that's my task that's my you know target and we are doing everything we can i would say that we are cost obsessive at the same time we are seeing the growing um business coming and and and and um We want this or we expect that the cash is going to last until we are profitable. And we're doing everything we can to ensure that, of course. I don't know what else I can comment on in this regard.

okay and uh you have been struggling a bit with your inventory levels for some time relating to the a1 and how should we think about this inventory digestion and in terms of the a2 should we expect there to be an inventory build up relating to to stocking up on that product yeah that's a very good question so most of our inventory is a111 and it originates from

pre-COVID, as I'm sure you know, where we ordered a significant amount of wafers to cover the ramp up of the SPOT2 platform, which was then delayed by two years at least. That is the root cause for the inventory. And now we expect that this inventory will be depleted in a faster way since the car models are ramping up. As we have said before, in every EX90, there are seven ACONIR radars. So there will be a lot of radars consumed when the car is produced in higher volume. Having said that, we are also seeing increased volumes of A121, which means we are actually receiving A121 wafers now. So if you look in the second quarter, The inventory reduction was only 0.6 million sec. A part of that is because we are taking new A121 wafers because we don't have any. We are out of wafers. We have to order. So that will be the case going forward. We will deplete the A111, but we are going to get new A121 and also A2 silicon coming in because those projects are ramping up. Of course, our goal is to lower the overall inventory level significantly. So we have to be very, very cautious when it comes to ordering to ensure that this actually happens. We want to deplete the A111 and we want to ramp up the other products without building inventory. So that's the fine balance that we are working on now or we are doing now.

All right. Then we received the final question so far. I haven't received more at the moment, but there's a final question that we received, and that relates to the lack of insider purchases during the quarter. Could management comment on its view of the company's valuation and confidence in the share price?

Well, I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on the share price itself. But as I have repeated many, many times, I strongly believe in this company. I mean, that's the reason why I joined this company. I also bought stock options, which will be valued zero if the company doesn't grow the market cap. So I believe that's a testimony to my belief in the company and my commitment to the company. And I don't think I can comment much more on that right now.

All right, let me see if there's any more questions here. Well, what would you say are the most important growth drivers for the next 12 months?

We are really, really focused on launching A2. with the lead customer in automotive. That's a big, big part of the company effort right now. That will be the foundation to bringing A2 to all the other applications that we are targeting. So that is the core task or the core activity within R&D today. If you look at the people in the product department, in the sales department, they are now paving the way for A2. Meaning we are meeting customers, we're promoting, we're talking about price, we're talking about projects, they are evaluating it, and so on. So it's a bit different. The R&D is very, very focused on delivering A2 to the lead customer. Product and sales are focusing on winning A2 customers, as well as expanding and winning new customers in the different product areas. So if you look at what will drive top line the most in the next 12 months? I think the answer is winning larger customers in the product areas. That is what will drive top line the most in the next 12 months.

All right. And relating to the A2, what has been the initial feedback that you have received from customers so far?

As I said, we have some customers that have experience of A121. They also have experience of multi-antenna solutions from our main competitors. And we have received some very encouraging feedback. They see that there is a significant performance increase in A2. They confirm that the angular resolution is fantastic. It's best in class. And that basically tells you how close objects can be to each other where it can still distinguish them with the radar solution. And we have a fantastic angular resolution in A2 combined with an extended range and leading power consumption. So the feedback we get initially is really, really encouraging. Now it is about know packaging it and delivering it to the customer so that they can actually convert this to a design win but the way we see a2 now it looks looks very very encouraging in in those areas where we're going after in the initial areas that we are targeting and a lot of positive feedback from from customers all right um i don't see any further questions on my end so if you would like to conclude with some final remarks the stage is yours thank you so maybe i would just finish by saying thanks for everyone's interest it's nice to see there are so many questions a lot of interest in aconir we are in an exciting period of time now and the automotive in the second quarter was a disappointment, of course, also for us. However, we do see that these car models that are the bulk of our forecast, they are ramping up. And as I said, we see an improvement from the third quarter and we expect it will continue to improve going forward. In parallel with that, we have a positive momentum. We're growing the business in our product areas. So that would be my final words. And with that, I would just say thank you for everyone and thanks for your interest in Acunir.

Okay, thank you very much.