Addtech AB (publ.)

Thank you and most welcome to the Adtech's fourth quarter and year end result presentation. The setup is as usual that Mal and I will use approximately half an hour to give our comments to the results and then open up for questions. Starting up with just a very quick run through of the key fundamentals of Adtech. We are a group of 150 independent and strictly decentralized companies in 20 countries. with a clear business to business offering in our five business areas. The value proposition is centered around high tech products and solutions, primarily to the manufacturing and infrastructure sectors. We have a dual growth engine approach as a focus to develop and grow our business organically. together with our entrepreneurs in the companies, and then complement and strengthen the niches with acquisitions funded by our own cash flow. Size-wise, rolling 12, we have now a turnover of almost 22 billion SEK, and we're on the operations with an EBITDA margin of 15%, and we have around 4,300 employees in the organization. So over to the quarter, In summary, a strong end to a successful year. The activity remained high and we increased our net sales by 13% of which 2% was organic. We report an EBITDA growth of 15% with a margin of 15.3 compared to 15 in the same quarter last year. There are a number of different items affecting comparability here. So Malin will come back to elaborate on that a bit later. We strengthen our cash flow in a very satisfying way, both in the quarter, but also in the full year. And we acquired two companies during the quarter, followed by two more after closing. So the high pace of acquisitions continues. A bit more on net sales development. giving the continued challenging market situation in some key segments. It's very satisfying to see a broad-based sales growth in the quarter. Four out of five business areas contributed positively with energy sticking out, as you can see, with the continued very strong development, while automation had a tough end to the year. I will come back to more details about each business areas. As said, 2% organic, accompanied by solid contributions from acquired companies. And the overall activity remained at high levels, but there are continued variations between both segments, geographies, and of course our companies. But the backlog remains well filled and we have a solid order intake during the quarter. We experienced a small improvement in the market situation during the quarter with positive signals from customers, where activity and will to invest cautiously increased in the quarter. The general trends remained unchanged, so electrical transmission defense markets remained strong, while companies exposed directly or indirectly to construction market continued to face some challenging situations. So over to EBITDA development. The good trend for the group as a whole continued. EBITDA increased in the quarter with a strong contribution from energy, as you can see in the graph, but also electrification process technology, decent quarters. EBITDA margin improved and the strong long-term trend in increasing our profit over working capital from already high levels continued. So our rolling 12 ended at 76% compared to 68, same period last year. So some brief comments on the quarterly development within each business area, starting with automation. that has had a quite challenging year and ends the year also with a weak fourth quarter. The net sales was affected due to weaker demand in previous quarters, mainly affecting some companies working with product business, but also due to weaker trading business relating to a weak market, especially in Central Europe and Finland, where we have some companies that have quite a lot effect for automation. And from a market segment perspective, it was primarily medical and process industry that was weak in the quarter. However, the overarching good sales trend for companies applying to defense industry, which is now around 15% of total sales in automation, continued and also mechanical segment remained stable. The lower sales volumes in combination with few one-offs in the quarter impacted the result in EBITDA margin negatively. We have done quite a lot of measures here in the affected companies with slower market situation. And with a slight increase in demand during fourth quarter, we expect to see a more positive development in automation next year. primarily during the second half of the coming year or this year. Electrification delivered a solid quarter, sequentially stronger market situation, where the big main segments for electrification, medical, defense, special vehicles, mechanical industry, developed positively, while electronics, also an important segment, and energy remained stable. So all in all, a good situation, also good leverage on the increased sales and solid contributions from acquisitions. So the margin improved in the quarter. Over to energy, the positive development with a very strong organic sales growth continued in the fourth quarter. The key driver remains to be the very strong demand for infrastructure products within electrical transmission and distribution, but also sales towards data centers, wind power, and our companies in traffic safety continue to develop in a very positive way. So at the same time, it's the companies in construction and installation that faced another quarter with a bit sluggish markets. an improved product mix and good leverage on the strong organic growth had a positive effect on profitability and so all in all a very strong quarter also when adjusting for the customer claim in the fourth quarter last year marlin will come back to that so good momentum in energy industry solution delivered another solid quarter good sales in both business units Sales related to product deliveries towards forest and sawmill industry were good, with strong contributions from acquisitions here, while demand for new products continued to be weak. The other important leg within this business area, special vehicle, had a stable quarter in sales. And demand improved somewhat during the quarter in both sawmill business and special vehicles, however, on quite easy comps. And the overall market climate in these segments is still uncertain due to the fact that the building construction market remains weak. Resulting margin negatively affected by the product mix in the quarter, but still delivering a good EBITDA margin. And finally, process technology, a solid fourth quarter, both sequentially and compared to last year. During the quarter, we experienced a small positive change in customers being more decisive in product related business. We have quite a lot of companies in process technology with product business. And in general, the demand situation within energy, marine, medical process industry that are the main industries for this business area. and especially chemical wastewater strengthened during the quarter. Special vehicles holding up fairly, while forest and mechanical industry was a bit weaker. So to sum up this picture, we have a market situation that varies, but this is also part of the strength of running a well diversified portfolio. When some markets and companies struggle, something else normally has tailwinds. Bottom line is that we continue to see high activity and when the sentiment and will to invest returns, our companies will be in good positions to capture the growth. With that said, I hand over to you, Malin, for some detailed comments on the results.

Thank you, Niklas. And as Niklas mentioned, we have a few things affecting the profit and margin for the quarter. And I will try to elaborate on this. We have a firm grip of the overhead costs, both in the quarter and for the year as a whole. And we can see from the graph that total costs in relation to sales keeps developing in a satisfying way. That said, we have a few companies struggling with challenging markets and therefore need to adjust the level of costs according to the current situation. During the fourth quarter, we have had one-off costs regarding restructuring attributable to personnel around mid-single digit amounts, mainly in automation. The reported profit increase is 15% and the profit margin shows an increase of 0.3 percentage points. Adjusted for the above-mentioned one-offs, the customer claim from last year from energy and the effects from revaluations of earnouts, we see that the profits increased 10% and the margin quarter over quarter rather decreased somewhat. However, currency effects from the revaluation of balance sheet items have hit this year's quarterly profit quite hard, while it had a small positive effect last year. Should we consider this, we see that the underlying margins have developed strongly. As we always emphasize, margins need to be considered on a longer-term perspective, and for the year as a whole, both profits and margins are comparable, and the development has been satisfying. We see the rolling 12 margin as sustainable and possible to improve gradually. With focus on increased value add in our value proposition, strategically improving our product mix and not least good margins in acquired companies. We are certain to achieve this. We saw a good release in working capital during the quarter and the organic development has been good throughout the year. Inventory levels are at satisfying levels in relation to sales and to order backlog, but is as always a key topic for our companies and management teams. Our long-term target profitable working capital increased to new record levels of 76% compared to 68% last year, continuing to generate good cash flow. Operating cash flow is at very good levels. Cash conversion came down somewhat during the year due to profits increasing relatively more than the cash flow. Our balance sheet is strong and our financial position remained very strong with sequential improvement. Our gearing and leverage do vary over the year, but are in the long-term perspective on very low levels, which give us a lot of headroom to operate according to our growth strategy. And with that, back to you, Niklas.

Thank you, Malin. Some full year comments then. When summarizing, we can once again conclude a successful year for ad tech. And despite the high geopolitical and macro uncertainty during the year, but the overarching activity for our companies has been stable at high level. And we continue to deliver on our growth strategy. Good growth on all lines and total net sales increased by 9%, 2% organic with organic growth in every quarter, which we think is a positive signal. In total, very much in line with what we had expected at the beginning of the year. Our EBITDA on the year is up 14%, improved profitability, 15% margin on an EBITDA level and earnings per share growth is 16%. So we really get the result all the way down. And again, very satisfying to see the hard work to focus on the product mix and active pricing get the volumes into the results. And organic growth has generated good contribution. As Malin said, we strengthen our cash flow further and keep our return on capital employed stable at really good levels. During the year, we acquired 12 companies, well-run, high performers that complement and strengthen our strategic niches and a good start to the new year, as I mentioned in the beginning. I will come back to that also later. so i think this year is proving our business models resilience and on back of strong positions in areas with high demand we delivered a solid sales growth and good order intake the board proposes a dividend of 3.20 sec so also a good increase from last year So moving on to just a very quick summary of the year for all the business areas, just mentioning a few things. Automation is very much about OEM related business with mechanical process, medical and defense as primary customer segments. And as I mentioned before, it's been a challenging year and the growth numbers have affected by Of course, fairly tough comps from a good year last year, but also tougher market situation, primarily in Finland and the DACH region. And with lower volumes than expected in beginning of the year, we had a negative effect by a bit too high cost base. We have talked about that a couple of quarters before as well. But as I mentioned, we expect next year to develop positively for automation. We acquired one company in July, Romani, a provider of linear and transmission products to machine builders in automation industry, complementing our existing companies in our business units, Motion and Drives, in a very good way. They know each other from a long time. Electrification, a broad value proposition to support customers in their electrification transition is what we want to capture in this business area. A solid year in general. Total net sales increased by 8%. A decent part of that is organic. Improved profitability, and not least for the battery group that had a challenging year last year, as I talked about when we ended the year last year. and a good margin increase for the business area. Three companies acquired, two in Germany and one UK companies, and they strengthen and complement different units in electrification in a good way. Energy. record year with broad-based growth on all lines and over the whole year it's the electrical transmission distribution infrastructure market and we really see a continuous good development on that market and we have very good positions on the number of geographies here and High organic growth combined with improved product mix had a very good EBITDA increase and hiked margins to 15.2% in the whole year. Two companies acquired, Italian company Ness that are in the electrical transmission and distribution markets in Italy, and then Danish Unilite that markets fire safety and ventilation solutions to primarily commercial and public buildings. Industrial solution then, a good year all in all. The year has of course been characterized by the weak order intake within sawmill industry and also sluggish market for part of the vehicle solution. But solar order books and good growth in other parts of the business and solid contributions from acquisitions supported a good net sales growth and also an EBITDA increase of 6%. Four acquisitions completed during the year in different market segments, supporting strategies and units and also giving good support for the present year. And process technology, steady growth and process technology, what is primarily driving growth here is the increased requirements to reduce environmental impact from different process industries. In summary, it was a good year, solid growth numbers. Key growth driver this year has been emission control companies, primarily supplying to marine oil and gas subsegments. While the product companies supporting CAPEX related investment have been hampered by the high market uncertainty, but positive signals from customers, as I mentioned before in the fourth quarter. And two companies acquired here. So as you can see, we are continuing to acquire companies on the broad based level in all business areas, which is very positive. So here's a summary of the acquisitions that we made. And as I mentioned, two and other after closing. One UK company, Amp Power Protection. that delivers and sells UPS systems and power protection systems for harsh environments to primarily defense marine and transport industries. And we also acquired one Canadian company, Novatec, that we have also known for many, many years and a leading supplier of analytical instrumentation and systems for measurement of gases and liquids. As you can see, in line with our strategy, our activities in selected markets outside of Nordics are accelerating with an increased deal flow, to a large extent driven by us now being more present on these markets. And we continue to have an unchanged positive view of the acquisition market. I have said many times that the risk of running out of acquisition opportunities is non-existing. There are plenty of possibilities in our focus areas. And we expect to continue to mix Nordic and European companies with a few larger, but also continuing to buy quite a lot of medium-sized companies. And as Molly mentioned, a very strong financial position and we have an attractive pipeline as of now. So I expect to be able to keep a high acquisition pace also going forward. Here you can see two parts, one both showing the diversification in our business that is very important for the resilience. And with regard to geographies, we operate in some 20 countries and export to another 20 geographical markets. A short comment on the ongoing trade tariff discussions and conflicts. 9% of total net sales, as you can see here, is in other countries. And of these 9%, approximately 3% is towards the US market. And the purchasing volumes is approximately at the same level, which means that our direct exposure to the announced trade tariffs is limited. Of course, the indirect effects, what this might have on the global economy and how this will impact the will to invest among our customers are hard to quantify at present. But of course, we follow the development closely, both on group and on company level. A comment on sales development during the year on different geographical markets. It's been a bit mixed bag, as we mentioned in the report. Stable in Sweden and Denmark, weaker in Finland, and a strong development in Norway and outside of Nordics. We've seen a stable demand in Benelux, a bit weaker in Dax, and positive for our companies in the UK market. Besides being well diversified, our strong corporate culture that we always talk about based on entrepreneurship and own responsibility is a key success factor. So our companies are showing again that they are very adaptable and have clear mandates to take operative decisions close to the market. So this business model and culture is absolute key to make us resilient. To sum up, to give a bit long-term perspective, which I think is the ultimate evidence of the strength of the model, over the last 20 plus years, we have managed to create an average annual EBITDA growth exceeding 20%. And the primary financial target is to grow over 15% over a business cycle. So it's of course very nice to see this graph that we have exceeded the target with lots of headroom. And worth repeating, this has been achieved without any capital injections financed by own capital and traditional bank facilities. And with a bit shorter perspective, as you can see in the bottom part of the slide, We can include that we have doubled the sale since 2018 and tripled the EBITDA and also increased our margins with almost five percentage points. And this has been achieved by hard work and a mix of strong organic growth and good leverage of the high pace of acquisitions. And return on capital employed, of course, very important for us. We keep it on a very, very stable high levels. So to summarize, I'm very pleased with the development during the year, not least on back on the quite high uncertainties on the global market sentiment. And the high activity remained and also a good start here in this year, a solid order intake and well-filled order books. Of course, the last month's global development has added some uncertainty. So far, no clear effects on our order intake. But if it escalates or becomes protracted, it will, of course, impact the sentiment and will to invest. But let's wait and see what happens. Cash flow generation, strong financial position, lots of firepower to support ambitions going forward. So regardless of the uncertain times, we have a positive view going into the new fiscal year and have an ambitious plan for continued growth. So my confidence in the robustness, as I have explained now, and our strategic niches are still very strong. With that said, let's open up for questions.

To ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad. To enter the queue, if you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key 6 on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Carl Ragnarstam from Nordia. Please go ahead.

Good morning. It's Carl here from Nordia. A couple of questions. Firstly, looking at automation. As you said, the margin is down a little bit year-over-year here. You also mentioned the mid-single-leaded one-offs adjusting for it still down just north of 100 basis points. So what are the main drivers? Is it gross margin or would you say it's an SG&A issue or maybe both? And now that you've taken out personnel costs that Malin said, how do you square this with the demand picture you see right now? to sort of restore the margin during the year?

Yeah, so to start with, it's not the gross margins. We have continued to increase gross margins in automation during the year, so it's not a matter of product mix or pricing or something like that. So good growth margins. It's a combination, I would say, primarily on the weaker top line and also SG&As that has been a bit too high. And we've done a lot of activities to take that down. And we feel that we have good positions with our customers. And it's just the fact that it's been a bit hampered this year for the products and the projects that we are working with in automation. So going into the coming year, It's absolutely our ambitions to increase the margins and we will see effects on that and backed up with a sequentially improved order intake and also improved discussion. For instance, in Finland, we see some positive development there after quite a long time of slow development in a couple of companies there. All in all, during the fiscal year, we have a positive view of automation coming back to a good level.

That is very clear. And you also touched upon the order intake bit. You called it favorable. Also seemingly it's holding up decently despite the macro turbulence. Could you give more flavor on what you see in terms of orders perhaps by segment or by capex and opex driven demand and also preferably also what you've seen post the quarter given that it's when we saw the bigger macroeconomic volatility I guess.

Yeah I mean we saw during the quarter an improved situation and I would say maybe primarily in the capex related business that has been slower and hampered during quite some time due to the insecurity. For instance, in process technology, as I mentioned, where we have quite a lot of product-based companies, we saw an improvement. And this has also continued into this year. So a stable and slight improvement is how I would summarize the situation.

That is very clear. And in energy, you have done the impressive journey obviously from low double DD margins a couple of years back now. I think it was 16 around there in the quarter. You previously mentioned the mix, right? Facing out less favorable volumes, I guess a bit of operating average as well. So at the current 16% margin that you came in with now, do you see more upside to it or is it sort of more capped? Because when When construction demand might come back, you'll see a shift in mix to, I guess, a little bit lower gross margin. Yeah, how do you look at the margin energy from here?

Yeah, I mean, the very, very strong margin development in energy over a couple of years now. It's driven by both really good acquisitions contributing to the margin increase, but also strong organic growth. So it's a combination there. We believe that these levels of margins, we should be able to keep and also over time increase the margins from here. And you mentioned building installation, if that come backs and the product mix. Actually, we have good margins also on those parts. So I would say all in all, we feel comfortable on the margin levels that NED has now.

That is very clear. Thank you. And the final one. If I may, you said that sawmill, did you say that it saw slight improvement in orders during the quarter? And also, could you talk a bit about the dynamic in industrial solution here with maybe a drop in the sawmill, but M&A was a little bit better than we thought, at least during the quarter, and also the mix effect, the slight negative organic might have compared with better, I guess, M&A-driven growth.

Yeah, so starting on the market perspective or order intake, I mean, we had a couple of product orders in the quarter. But it's too early to talk about like a real shift here. It's still, as we mentioned previous quarters, we have a lot of projects in the pipeline, a lot of discussions with customers, but still we have to see the construction market coming back before we see something really good development on that side. So that's the situation on the demand side. When it comes to the product mix, and as you saw, I mean, we still have really good margins here. But as we also been talking about the last year that we have had a little bit hiked margin due to the very favorable product mix in the sawmill projects. And now with the product mix we have now, as you mentioned, a bit stronger from acquisitions and a little bit weaker on the organic side, that is pushing down the margin a little bit, as we have talked about during the whole year. But going into the coming year, As long as the sawmill market is not coming back, of course, industrial solutions are having some headwinds. That is partly offset by the acquisitions that we have made also with good margins. So it is a product mix effect and that will have some effect on the margins for industrial solutions.

Okay, that's very clear. Thank you.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Zeno Engdahl and Rick Chudy from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead.

Good day, and thanks for taking our questions. Just a couple of follow-ups. If we go back just to automation, the interest or the slightly improved interest using there is it concrete orders or are we still talking about the pre-sales activity?

I would say it's both. So slight improvement on order intake, but also a more positive sentiment, especially when we talk about the product related companies. But it's both. It's a positive trend.

And on the restructuring cost you've taken in automation, have you done most of what you need to do there or should we think that there will be more of these costs in the next quarter as well?

Yeah I mean it's We still have a couple of situations where we might still have a bit more to do. We don't talk about any drastic effects on costs, but I would not say that it might not come in also the coming quarter. But we are doing a lot of activities and the large part of it we have already done, but it might be something more in the coming quarters.

And just finally on automation, when you said that you expected an improvement in the second half of the year, did you mean the calendar year or the fiscal year?

Well, I mean the fiscal year. So it might be, you know, one or two quarters. This is very difficult to say because it really depends on what happens with primarily the product related discussions we have. But I think we might have yet another quarter with a bit weak side of automation, but then it should improve.

And just a follow up on the industrial solutions question from Carl. you said previously I think it's around this quarter where where the backlog should run out of how we should put the wording on it from the sawmill and it seems then that you don't expect the impact to be I mean that significant in the coming one or two quarters even if you don't get a an upswing in the sawmill exposure. Is that correct interpretation of it?

Yeah, I mean, we do have some order backlog still coming from the CGV company that we acquired last year. So there we have order backlog. also for the year that we are in here. And that is partly offsetting that we have run out of, more or less run out of backlog in the other parts of the sawmill market. What was your second half of your question?

That basically that there, if there would or wouldn't be then a significant impact in the coming then one harder on the organic business excluding CGV.

You mean on top line or margins?

Well, both.

Yeah. I mean, as I mentioned, the product mix, we have had very, very good margins on the product deliveries. the last year that we have talked about, that this has hiked the margin. I don't know if we have clarified how much, but a little bit on the higher side. So the margins in industrial solutions will... I mean, we've had a couple of quarters with 22-23% EBITDA margin and we will not see that. So from the rolling 12 we have at this point, it will most likely come down a little bit in the coming quarters, unless the market comes back.

Okay, very, very good. That's all for me. I'll get back in line.

The next question comes from Carl Boakvist from ABG Sundahl Collier. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good morning. The first one is just a bit of curiosity if it would be possible to maybe flag if there were any other divisions that saw particularly strong M&A contributions this quarter.

Yeah. hi good morning yeah it is in in industrial solution where where is is most likely more more mna driven that that that the consensus had had in the in the figure so a bit stronger on on industrial solution and the follow-up on on that and i believe you might have flagged it a little bit here during the presentation but was was it like one company in particular that performed

really really well or was it the group of these Rocio, Coel, CGV for example that helped you?

On top line it's a mix but on top line it is primarily good deliveries from CGV.

Understood, thank you. Then the other one I had is just on The demand that you are seeing both within the energy division as a whole but also when you flag defense and markets, do you feel that your businesses can scale up and meet the demand in a good way also going forward?

Yes, absolutely. It's of course a good question. I mean we have during the year increased our efforts and into these primarily these segments that are the big the big growth drivers at the moment. So both in energy transmission and distribution, we feel that we can continue to deliver on a higher demand, but also on defense. I mean, we have a number of companies supplying to the defense industry. And so we don't see any internal difficulties to be able to capture that growth.

Understood. Then my final one is on automation. When we look at the division's performance, going back a little bit, we had a couple of quarters where margins were more like 12, 13, where also the absolute sales level was a bit lower. So you mentioned the higher selling expenses and so on, but my question is more about from the current like 11 11 and a half will it be relied or will it be dependent on improving volumes for the margins to perhaps return to the 12 13 percent levels we've seen before yes i would say that

The main reason for the lower margins is on the sales side. So coming back to those record high levels, we need to increase that, the top line. Or do you want to add something?

No, I just think that it can also be the product mix. I think that it is also hampered a bit by the product mix. So I think increased volumes from the right kind of products will be probably the answer here. Also in combination with looking through the organizations thoroughly when it comes to efficiency and so. So it's a combination of things.

Yeah. Understood. That is all. Thank you. Thank you.

The next question comes from Johan Lankvist Sundhien from DNB Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Hi, Niklas. Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Morning. A couple of questions from my side. First Malin, just a clarification for what you highlight about balance sheet evaluations impacting you in this quarter. Where in the P&L were that effect taking place? Was it above or below EBITDA?

Above.

And how much ballpark was that impact?

Maybe I wouldn't go into specific details, but if we have a small positive effect last year, as I said, it was a bit more on the negative side this year. So it's affecting negatively this quarter, but it's still... I think that, again, what I said, it's important to look at these things more on a yearly basis because quarterly, it's depending on how the balance sheet is looking on the exact closing day. So, it's affecting us negatively this quarter. But year on year, it's on normal levels and in line with last year. It's negative, but it's nothing to write home about.

And is there a specific segment or does that impact group cost or?

No, that's in all of the companies. I mean, maybe not all companies are affected negatively, but it's in the companies where we revaluate this. So it's not on group items or such.

Very clear. Then on the kind of timing and how your visibility on realizing your order backlog if you take for example the process technology side where you highlight that activity levels and discussions with clients has been a little bit better than maybe before how how long many quarters do you think it should take before those discussions is converted to orders and those orders get converted to sales

Um, I mean, it's really a mix here, so it's difficult to give one clear answer to it. But it's I would say it's it's more more it's not you know, there are a number of longer projects, but I would say that it's primarily projects that when it comes to order, it's let's say one or two quarters when it's realized in in sales. So. then again we have a number of projects that are going on for over a year and even more than that but i would say the majority is more on on on the shorter term so it should it should give positive effect the coming quarters here and when you say coming quarters already in calendar q q2 or is it something for after the summer period No, we should see it also in calendar Q2, so our first quarter that we are in now.

Very clear. And then another clarification, the one of cost on the automation side was mid single digit impact, you said?

Yes.

Excellent. And getting back to a topic that has been discussed earlier in the call. In organic basis, how much should we expect the sawmill business to see a step down on, say, revenue in the coming two quarters versus what we saw in the last fiscal year?

Yeah, it's a good question. Yeah, I mean, it will be most likely a bit substantial. So maybe in the lower double digits, I would say something like that.

low and just to be clear lower double digit falls off from the comparison basis it's not possible to quantify in say yeah okay i think those were my questions other has already been been answered so thanks thanks for answering i get back in line thank you

question comes from Carl Boakvist from ABG Sundahl Collier please go ahead thank you I'm I'm gonna try my luck here I understand this might be a bit too nitty-gritty but if when we look at the entire segment you you classify forest and process and for the quarter it was almost 900 million SEK and for the full fiscal year almost 3 billion when when we Now think about the areas that could still hold up or grow because of order backlog and then the area just regarding Johan's questions as well. Should we think about a smaller portion of this area when we think about the area that could be a bit weaker?

If I understand your question correctly how much is sawmill business of the whole forest and process segment.

Correct. Thanks for that. That was the easier way of asking a question.

Yeah. So I would say approximately a third of that segment.

Understood. Thank you. That is all.

Thank you.

There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments.

So no written questions as I can see here. So with that, thank you very much for listening in and I wish you a good day. Thank you all. Bye-bye. Bye.