Afry AB

Good morning and warm welcome. My name is Linda Pålsson. I'm the CEO of AFRI and I will present our Q2 results together with our CFO Bo Sandström. Starting off with a summary of the second quarter, our work with the ongoing strategy review progressed according to plan. Our efforts during the quarter focused on implementing our new group structure, which has included a comprehensive restructuring of the organization, as we are taking steps now to improve efficiency. We will continue our work on optimizing the portfolio and addressing our cost base in the coming 12 months, which we will come back to a bit later in this presentation. At the same time as we're laying the foundation for profitable growth, we are navigating a challenging market. We see that market remains cautious due to the current uncertainty in the global economic environment. And while the pattern varies across segments and regions, this uncertainty is broadly affecting client decisions and investments. We also had a weak calendar in Q2, and this reflects in our result for the quarter as well. Our net sales declined compared to last year and was in addition to the weak calendar also impacted by a significant currency effect that had a negative impact on the growth. And while we had a total growth of minus 7.2, the organic growth adjusted for the calendar effects was minus 2.5%. Our EBITDA margin was also impacted by these effects, but we delivered an EBITDA margin excluding items affecting comparability of 6.6%, which actually was in line with the calendar Justin margin last year. And despite facing challenging market conditions in some segments, I am pleased that we continue to grow our order backlog, which increased both sequentially as well as year over year. That is very important to us and underscores our strong and competitive position in the market. And taking a closer look at the market, uncertainty remains in some industrial segments. On the other hand, the defense segment continues to be very strong and we see a high demand for our services in this area. The pulp and paper segments has been challenging for quite a while now, and demand is still low for new investments projects in this area. We are, however, seeing some signs of increased market activity, especially in Latin America. In the energy sector, the demand is still strong across the segments. The interest around nuclear is steadily growing and countries are evaluating long term energy solutions and new technologies. This provides opportunities for us as we have a very strong expertise and position in the nuclear sector. What we see in the energy sector overall is that long-term demand remains high, but there are differences and variations across energy sources and regions over time. For instance, in solar and wind power, we experienced these regional differences where the demand is currently very high in Asia, but more modest in Europe and the Nordics. And finally, in the infrastructure sector, the demand is stable in transport infrastructure. And there we also see initiatives for increased resilience that are driving long-term trends and demand. The real estate sector has been weak for a while now and remains so in this quarter as well. We're going into the divisional performance. Infrastructure division was impacted both by currency and calendar effects in this quarter. Despite these effects, the underlying EBITDA margin improved as they continued to work to increase their efficiency. Industrial and digital solution experienced a challenging market in some segments and working actively to adjust its capacity. They were also impacted by negative calendar effects in this quarter, which pressured profitability further. In the process industry division, sales declined slightly, mainly impacted by the low demand in investment projects for pulp and paper. But despite this, they deliver an EBITDA margin of 10% in the quarter, with successful project closings that contribute to the profitability. The energy division continues its solid performance on both sales and margin with high activity in several segments. In management consulting, the high demand for energy and sustainability consulting was not able to fully compensate for the continued weak demand in bio industry, which impacted the sales in this quarter. And as you know, this is the final quarter. We will report the results in this structure. And from Q3, we will report in our three new global divisions. As we now are working through a reorganization and defining a new strategic direction for AFRI, it's essential for us to keep up business momentum and maintain our most important focus, delivering value to our clients. And with that, I would like to highlight some great project wins that we have announced in this quarter. Starting out here in Sweden, we have taken an important step in our partnership with BIA system Hägglunds. We have signed a new framework agreement covering engineering services in product development, procurement, quality and production across several areas of the operation. This agreement builds on a strong track record of delivering high quality engineering solutions for the defence industry. And we look forward to contributing to innovation and strengthening the societal security together with our client. In the quarter, we were also selected by the Norwegian Nuclear Decommissioning Agency to support the safe decommissioning and radioactive waste management of Norway's nuclear research reactors. Under this agreement, AFRI will deliver expert services and strategic advisory to ensure full compliance with the strict security regulations that are very critical in the nuclear sector. And finally, we secured an important contract in Switzerland for the modernization of the Western Bypass in Zurich. So AFRI will be responsible for the operating and safety equipment as part of the highway upgrade, as well as the rehabilitation of traffic systems. The Western Bypass plays a key role in reducing traffic in Zurich, and with our expertise in transport infrastructure, we will support the continued safe, efficient and sustainable operation of this vital route. And I'm also very happy to highlight the first acquisition in our new group structure. Yesterday, we announced that AFRI has entered into agreement to acquire RETA Engineering. RETA is a Brazilian provider of comprehensive project and construction management services with a leading foothold in the mining and metal sector. Reta's strong local presence and competence will strengthen AFRI's existing operations in Brazil, which includes over 1,200 employees, to unlock new growth opportunities across the Americas. As mining methods are essential to meet the increasing demand for materials that are critical to the industrial transition, this acquisition reinforces AFRI's role in advancing the engineering and industrial transition. Detta will be integrated in our segment mining and metals within the global division industry. And I look forward to welcoming all Retta employees to AFRI in Q3 when we expect to finalize this acquisition. And I think that is a nice conclusion before I'm handing over to you, Bo.

Thank you, Linda. I will, as usual, cover the financials, this time for Q2 2025. Q2 showed net sales of 6.7 billion and EBITDA of 438 million. On rolling 12 months, we are now at 26.5 billion on net sales and we fall right below 1.9 billion on EBITDA, following two quarters with a really weak calendar. Calendar is the driving factor for the decline on rolling 12 months EBITDA compared to 12 months ago and explains approximately 165 millions of the negative movement. In the quarter with a net sales of 6.7 billion, adjusted organic growth came in at negative 2.5%, where volume continued to be pressured by capacity adjustments during the last number of quarters. As seen in previous quarters, the decline in volume was partially compensated with positive pricing. We estimate higher average fees of approximately 5% in the quarter, which is in line with the last number of quarters. Total growth is reported at negative 7%, affected also by a negative calendar of more than nine hours and FX effects from a strengthened SEC compared to last year. The negative adjusted organic growth in Q2 was sequentially lower and most divisions saw sequentially lower growth levels. Process industries was the exception and showed sequential improvement, but remain on negative growth also in this quarter. The energy division remain in growth mode, but showed somewhat lower growth than the really strong growth in Q1. The order backlog developed favorably and increased to 20.7 billion, improving sequentially and to last year. Currency adjusted, the backlog has improved 5.6% to last year, with improvements primarily from divisions infrastructure and process industries. The energy division maintained the largest order backlog in relation to net sales, but at the level in line with last year adjusted currency effects. EBITDA excluding items affecting comparability came in at 438 million and the EBITDA margin was at 6.6%. Negative calendar affects EBITDA with 104 million and the EBITDA margin with 1.4 percentage points to last year. So that calendar adjusted margin was fully in line with last year. Currency changes has marginal impact on the EBITDA margin, but on absolute terms, we estimate a negative currency impact of 20 to 25 million on EBITDA compared to last year. As seen throughout 2024 and in Q1, divisions infrastructure and energy continue to support the margin development of the group when adjusting for their respective calendars. Process industries report a 10% EBITDA margin in Q2 following successful project completions. Management consulting is well below last year, primarily due to a positive one-off in the comparative quarter. Utilization is again lower than last year, but for Q2, the decline is in line with what we saw in 2024 following the particularly weak Q1. All divisions show negative year-over-year development for utilization in Q2. And as stated last quarter, utilization will be a clear focus for A3 going forward. We have some effects remaining in IDS related to the Agency Work Act, but from next quarter we are expecting those effects to be fully absorbed. In quarter two, we report 91 million restructuring costs related to changes in the group structure, reported then as items affecting comparability. The restructuring costs relate to redundancies, both on managerial and operational levels. With the new group structure now operational, we will continue to address our cost base as well as making portfolio optimization in quarters to come. And we estimate further restructuring costs of 200 to 300 million in the next 12 months. We are expecting the payback time of these restructuring efforts, both the one in Q2 and the ones in the next 12 months, to be on average one year. Thus, we are on average expecting an EBITDA run rate uplift of the same level as the restructuring costs when they occur. Cash flow from operating activities in Q2 was marginally lower than last year. Available liquidity remain around 4 billion, and the sequential movement on net debt is driven by the dividend payout in the quarter. On net debt to EBTA, we report 2.9 times. This is higher than last year, despite the lower net debt, given the weak calendar last 12 months and the restructuring costs in Q2, both affecting EBTA. Normal seasonality for the remainder of the year would provide significant deleveraging in the last quarter of the year and take us to around or below our financial target of 2.5 times. And with that, I leave back to you, Linda.

Thank you for that, Bo. And I would with that like to give you an update on what we have achieved this quarter, but also a bit of what's coming ahead. So setting the foundation for profitable growth. During the quarter, we have prepared the implementation of the new group structure, which was announced earlier this year. We performed a comprehensive restructuring of the entire group structure, which included an assessment of all parts and layers of the organization. With these changes, we have now set the foundation for driving profitable growth, enabling us to streamline operations and structurally address our cost base. At the same time, we maintained a strong focus on keeping business momentum and continue to increase our order backlog. The new group structure became effective as of 1st of July. And in Q3, we will report the new group structure through the three global divisions, energy, industry and transportation and places. And looking at our ongoing strategic journey, we now initiated the first steps during Q1 this year, focusing on the build-up, setting the group's strategic direction, initiated the portfolio review, and conducted the assessment of AFRI's operating model. Now, during Q2, we worked resentlessly with restructuring efforts and operational readiness to ensure that we are ready to operate in the new structure from 1st of July. And going into the second half of 2025, we're now accelerating the strategy development of the new structure, focused on our core segments strategy and the client-oriented and high-value offerings. And we will present our updated strategy at our Capital Markets Day on the 4th of November this fall. In parallel, we are driving the implementation for a fit for purpose operating model, including continuously addressing our cost base and also operational efficiencies. And lastly, we are very excited to welcome you to our Capital Markets Day on the 4th of November here at our headquarters in Solna. We will spend half a day together where me and my executive team will present AFRI's updated strategy and our profitable growth plan. This will be an in-person event and we will share more information as we get closer to the day. And with that, we will open up for questions.

Yes, thank you. Now we will open up for questions, so please raise your hand function if you have a question. And we're going to start with Dan Johansson from SCB. Dan, we'll come back to you then and we'll start with Johan Dahl from Danske Bank.

Hello.

We had some problems hearing you, but I think I caught the gist of the question, so you don't have to repeat it. So talking about the 200 to 300 million that we then announced for restructuring costs in the upcoming year, our expectation is that when we do a restructuring effort and we announce that as a restructuring cost, then the corresponding amount should be estimated as a run rate lift up in the following quarters, leading them to a payback time of one year. And that is then on average, of course, the different initiatives that we are doing will have different types of impact, but we estimate that that is a reasonable estimate of what is to be expected.

points billing ratio uplift in your review?

Sorry, sorry, now we have the sound in order. So if you just repeat the last one, I'm sorry.

Yeah, I'm just trying to translate that net effect. So in your minds, this represent 100 to 200 bits billing ratio uplift. Is that the way to look at it?

That sounds like a reasonable estimate. Of course, the effects of the restructuring will have different types of impact, but looking at the utilization rate, as you suggest, that's a reasonable estimate.

Just one follow-up on the order book. I was wondering, Linda, the order book has developed quite nicely, at least from sort of how it's looked in the last one, two years, but I'm just wondering with your tenure at A3 and the new initiatives that you're driving, how has that impacted the quality of that order book? How has it impacted the way you evaluate orders you take into the company just to help us understand the changes in accepting those orders?

Absolutely. This has been one of our utmost priorities, I would say, to get our order book in shape. So we have put a lot of structures in place on how we approve new projects entering the order backlog. Then, of course, the order backlog is over many years. So we do have some projects sold at a very low margin that is still with us in the backlog. But going forward, the margin and the quality of the services also in the backlog is improving over time. So we put a lot of focus on that in our daily operation to build a strong and stable backlog.

And can you put that delta in how you are evaluate orders into context, comparing it to sort of cost efficiencies and billing ratio uplifts. How does that measure compared to that just to get a feel for the magnitude?

Well, of course, it's so many elements into this. The one sort of thing we can say, it's better to have a large order backlog than have a small. And now we are increasing it. And we can also from that then over time improve our utilization rate because we have now more sufficient workload but we are also a bit dependent on the timing on the market because a project for us it's different phases and now when we have this a little bit uncertainty within the market some of the projects are more related that we do the first phases the pre-engineering phases and studies and so on And we are a bit waiting on the investment decision from our clients to do the big bulk of engineering work. So we do have some dependencies also to our clients and market activities built into the backlog. But we are much better positioned going into Q3 this year than we were last year.

Thank you. Okay, thank you, Johan. And then we'll try again with Dan Johansson from SEB, please. Go ahead.

Yeah, hi Linda and Bo, hope you can hear me. Much better, thank you. Loud and clear, perfect. Maybe I'll follow up a little bit on Johan's question on the restructuring initiative. Could you say something about the composition of the restructuring initiatives or given the fairly quick payback, I assume the savings you intend to achieve are mainly personnel related, is that correct observation?

Yes, it is. It's the first take on our structural reassessment of our organisation and all the spans and layers of that. So yes, it's much related to that.

And as you indicate, it covers a big proportion of the company. To some extent, we are addressing our cost base, and that's a big part of the restructuring efforts. And to some extent, we are working continuously with more operational efficiencies related to the new strategy. So it will be a combination of that addressing the full company. But as Linda said, mainly redundancy related or mainly personnel related is what we expect.

Understood. I mean, given the order book, how do you sort of balance the risk that demand starts to come back here during second half and into 2026? And at the same time, you scale down your FTEs, so to speak. So there's not a double wrong, if you understand my question.

No, absolutely. And of course, very relevant questions. As we see it, we still have some potential in the utilization rate, utilizing our employee base in a better way. And we also think that we have the ability to scale up quite fast. We have a quite attractive brand and we are in well shape to recruit employees also. So we see that as a minor risk, actually.

Perfect. And the final one from my side. On the order book composition, is it a couple of large multi-year projects driving the order growth, or do you see similar growth across the sort of bread and butter, small and mid-sized projects as well, if it's possible to do that split?

Yeah, also very relevant, given how we now want to build our backlog going forward. I can say it's a good mix of projects within our defined core segments going forward, supporting our belief on the market. They are mixed in size. We have displayed a couple of big ones going over many years, but we see also good smaller projects and we see a lot of studies and early phase activities also in the mix in our order book.

Perfect, thanks. I think that was all from my side now, so I'll jump back into the line. Thank you.

Thank you, Dan. Then we will open up for Jesper Stugemo from Handelsbanken.

Yes, good morning, Bo and Linda. Can you hear me? Good morning. All right, great. On the utilization level, you mentioned that it was down year on year in all the divisions here, but I was thinking a little bit around the process here, improving the margin almost 1%. Is this mainly related to the successful project closing or do you see that the utilization at least have stabilized or? What do you see?

Yeah, I mean, if we take a step back and we saw during 2024, then practically all the decline in utilization was then related to process industries with a big year-over-year decline. That we don't see as clearly anymore. We still have a decline, but it's significantly smaller than what we saw during last year and more in line with what we see in AFRI as a whole. So as we said, I think both me and Linda, part of the reason for the solid performance in Q2 specifically for process industries was successful project closings. But it was not a big one-off quarter in that sense. We do see a strengthening of the performance of process industries. And even though we still carry a negative year-over-year utilization, we have been able to compensate that in a good way by practically cost savings related and cost efficiencies in the division.

Okay, great. And could you give some more like color on the increased activity you've seen in Latin America, some examples there?

Well, as we have talked about now over the last quarters, pulp and paper has been quite challenging for us on a global level. Now we see some promising signs, especially in Latin America. We presented a big Arauco project that we were awarded in, I think it was in Q1, and we see more and more early phase studies in that one. So we are seeing positive signs on several clients in both Latin America, especially in Latin America. All right, thank you.

And then just one last one from me, more technical one on the elimination on EBIT-A level was a bit higher than it used to be. Is this related to restructuring and should we expect the same sort of run rate here going forward?

The vast majority was, as you imply, related to restructuring. We did see some smaller, minor currency effects affecting the quarter seen in the comparison to last year. But I would say besides that, we actually had a seasonally strong last year in the comparatives. So from a seasonality aspect, it was more in relation to Q2 last year than it was to Q2 this year, besides the restructuring.

Okay. Thank you. I'll jump back in line. Have a nice summer. You as well.

You too. Thank you, Jesper. Next question is from Tom Ginchard from Pareto.

Thank you. First of all, a question on IDS. Just on the consultancy or the agency work act, how much of a delta did you see in Q2 compared to Q1 in terms of margin?

I said before that we expect this to be the last quarter where we actually see some year-over-year effects related to the Agency Work Act. We're now at those levels, so it's difficult to specify exactly how big those effects are. But from a divisional perspective, I would expect that to be in the range of one percentage point or so on the utilization for the quarter. but we are expecting that to be fading out now completely and and we don't expect that effect to be anything material from q3 and onwards thank you tom are you do you have any other questions uh yes just a

Sentiment question in IDS as well. How's the customer discussion going moving into Q3? Are you still seeing caution in terms of investment decisions or slightly more positive indications from your customers?

Well, we see quite a mix there. We still see some slow movement on the automotive industry with the tariffs and that impacting the clients' decisions. But we also see quite an uptick in the defence sector. Also defence as such, but also total defence of the society. So here we see quite positive signs and we also presented the win here in this quarter. So it's mixed, I would say, with the continuous patterns in the automotive going down and the defense going up. And then we have sort of mixed market or stable market when it comes to food and pharma and a couple of the other elements.

Perfect. And just a final one on transport infrastructure. How much have you started seeing of the increased investment rates? Is it trickling into the system or still only on paper in terms of increased budget proposals connected both to pure infra and through defense?

Well, as you said, there's still quite early phases, but we see that we're in more and more framework agreements in this field, and that will generate call-offs over time. So it's still quite early, but we see promising on that development.

Okay, thanks.

Thank you, Tom. The next question is from Johan Sundén from DNB Carnegie.

Hi, Bo and Linda, I hope you can hear me.

Excellent. I think I'll follow up a little bit on the restructuring initiatives as well here. Just interesting to hear what would be the swing factor for you to end up at, say, 200 million versus 300 million in restructuring, i.e. cost savings. And also interesting to hear some kind of facing when the kind of restructuring charges is expected to take place.

Am I back in start and then Bo, you can jump in. Why we put a range is of course because we have still some market issues to deal with, especially in automotive and parts of of our building business. So of course, we need to see also in what direction the market goes. But besides those two elements, I would say it's quite even distributed between the divisions and also the functions. Maybe, Bo, you can elaborate a little bit more on the technicalities.

I do agree. It's practically the market development that is the big swing factor to where we end up in terms of that range, more than addressing the cost base, which I think is more clear in that sense, in that comparison. In terms of the timing, we're not providing further timing guidance. This is what we expect over the next 12 months. So we will work as diligently and fast as we can. But then, of course, some of these efforts require some preparation and might take a quarter or two before we are ready to go through.

Great, thanks for the color.

And then also on the kind of portfolio review, are these initiatives including a complete close down of specific subsegments or is it just small kind of modifications or how should we interpret it?

Well, we will continue to do it with our portfolio review over the coming 12 months as well. But what we are doing now is that we are focusing very much on these 14 core segments that we have selected in our strategy update. And we see a clear sort of market logic behind these segments that we have selected. And as you might saw yesterday, we made an acquisition of Reta Engineering, who is a perfect example, I think, on how we will support our segments going forward, adding capacity and also adding capabilities over the full lifecycle of a project. Also building on our strong position in the Brazilian market. So it's more focused on what we are going to do going forward at this point.

And should we interpret your acquisition from yesterday that you're rather a buyer than a seller of businesses as of now?

Yeah, again, I mean, we are in the middle of this one and we are now focusing on the things that we see going forward. So there could be potential, but there's also opportunity for us to be more fast in distributing our resources between these segments that we will work with going forward. So it's also internal mobility and things like that coming into place here.

But I think it's difficult to make that assumption, Johan. We are always looking at opportunities to make relevant acquisitions. But then looking back, we've been in consolidation mode the last five or six quarters, and we're also looking at the next 12 months where we continue to do restructuring efforts also on the operations side. But that doesn't exclude the possibility for us to execute on acquisition opportunities when they arise.

Perfect. One final question for me is also a little bit back to the phasing and timing. When should we expect the kind of utilization trend to turn? Will this happen already in 2025 or is that something for 2026?

I mean, our ambition is to, of course, stop that negative trend that we've carried now for a couple of years and do that sooner rather than later. Our ambition is, of course, that the restructuring efforts that we do, that we then started now much clearly in Q2 and we will follow up over the next 12 months, will be sufficient to both stop the negative trend and start trickling upwards So ambition is, of course, to have that in place sooner rather than later, but not providing more guidance than so in terms of the exact timing of that trend shift.

Fair enough. Thanks a lot for your answers. I'll get back in line.

Thank you, Johan. Next up is Adela Dacian from Jefferies.

Thank you. A couple from me. If we start with, and this is going to be a follow-up on the order backlog questions that have already been answered. But, you know, given the growth this quarter, would you say that this has been, I guess, a more active push by you, Linda, to materialize the orders that are coming through? Or is it more of an element that market discussions with your in a more optimistic manner.

This has been a clear focus area for us. Of course, when we do the restructuring and reorganization elements, we have looked at a couple of risk mitigation actions. One of the first that we identified was that we need to continue our strong focus on sales and also delivering on the client value. So we have made sure that we have had sufficient time to spend on sales and market activities during this period of time, because that is one of the best building blocks for us going forward. So it's been a very focused sales strategy from our side.

Got it. So I guess you would be disappointed if this trajectory doesn't continue in the coming quarters than if it's been more of an active push. That was a question. Sorry.

The answer was yes. Yes. Yeah, we will, of course, focus. We will continue our focus on this one. And as you know, there's sometimes long sales cycles as well for the larger projects. So we will not lose that momentum going forward. We'll keep on that focus. That's good to hear.

I think it's fair to say that the order intake leading to a good backlog development and the utilization will be key focus areas for us also going forward.

I guess also driving the utilization rate higher. On the geographic expansion and the acquisition that was announced last night, I hear here that you're more focused on continuing the acquisitive trail, but going into, you know, Latin America or other emerging markets, is that also going to be much more of a focus point for you going forward?

Well, we have said from a global perspective that we are, of course, Nordic and Europe based, and we have all our three global divisions present in the Nordics and Europe. In Asia, we are very strong on the energy side, and in the Americas, we are strong on the industry side. So, of course, we build on our position, especially our strong pulp and paper position in the Americas, by now also adding capacity in the metal and mining sector. So that will be good for us. And we will also sort of utilize resources from Latin America to projects in US and especially Canada going forward. So this is sort of a build on our position in Americas going forward.

Got it. Appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you Adela. The next question is from Raymond K from Nordea. Please go ahead.

Hi Linda and Bo. A couple of questions from me, starting on the restructuring side as well. About the 200 to 300 million SEC, how should we think about this across your division? I think you partly answered that, but is it fair to assume that it's, you know, sort of prorata distributed based on each division's sales size, or is it sort of more split evenly on an absolute amount across each division?

I think it is, of course, it's difficult to say, Raymond, but I think, you know, kind of starting from a prorata assumption, you know, that's a fair starting point. And then I would think on, you know, kind of where is the market developing, you know, kind of in the next 12 to 24 months? And what does that imply? You know, for instance, you know, most likely we will be quite cautious on the energy side, whereas on the other, you know, whereas on the other divisions, it might be more of a pro rata game.

Yeah, that makes sense, and could you also just maybe help us better grasp the restructuring costs and like what layer you're addressing when including sort of the 91 million SEC that you've incurred here in Q2. Like, do you start top down? Is it division by division? Yeah, just help us understand a bit like how you're working it.

Starting on the Q2, the 91, as you referred to, that is then the result of a very comprehensive reorganization taking us into the new group structure that we just went into the 1st of July. Of course, we started with the announcement of the new group structure. The first starting point was a top-down starting point. But then from that point, it's been more practically a bottom-up exercise. That specifically, setting practically the foundation for us going into the new group structure. Moving forward, it will be more tailored in that sense. We will do restructuring efforts both continued on operational and managerial level where required, both looking at administrative functions more specifically, addressing our cost base, and also do operational efficiencies. Not specifically in a given order, not a top-down or a bottom-up, but more tailor-made to the opportunities that we see.

That was really helpful. Thanks for that. And a final one from me, considering then the headcount reductions and the restructurings that they imply, are we to think that you will on the net be fewer people next year, excluding acquisitions, that is?

I think given the announcement today on restructuring efforts in that range, I think that's a reasonable assumption from an organic perspective. Then, of course, we are quite determined to get into profitable growth mode. So if we get support also from from a market development, that won't stop us from from executing on that. But I think, you know, looking at your question, you know, can I imply looking 12 months ahead? I guess it's touch and go whether you can reasonably expect the market to develop that quickly when we are at the same time restructuring.

That's that's very fair. Thank you so much for answering my questions.

Thank you, Raymond. And with that, we conclude the Q&A session.

Okay, so thank you so much for joining us here today. And we are wishing you all a great summer. And we look forward to meet you again in the fall. And especially, we look forward to our Capital Markets Day on the 4th of November. Have a nice summer, all of you.