Alimak Group AB (publ)

And yeah, welcome to this Q1 call for 2025. And as always, as you've already heard, Sylva is with me here. Let's turn page and a short recap of the group. Well diversified industrial company. We are a leading provider of sustainable vertical access and working at height solutions. We have some fundamental drivers for success. And those you see to the right here, we are supported by global trends. even though we all have also something now which works against us, as we all know, but it's not really a global trend. We have a leading market position in focused niches. We have a very solid global footprint with a large installed base, which is also a fundamental piece in our spare part and service business globally. And altogether, we have a strong balance sheet, good cash conversion and a very solid financial position. turning page new Heights this is the transformation program we started in 2020 and which we are staying loyal and true to and we are now in the last part of this first phase the 25 year where we are now in profitable growth and as you will see we are still delivering profitable growth sorry the divisional structure you see down below and the strategic house this is really our value creation engine where the divisions are fully owning their full business and now as we have also talked about you know we are working on our 2030 plan the new heights 2.0 which we will come back to during the bottom where the focus will be even stronger profitable growth up to 2030. Turning page these are our financial and sustainability targets and yeah those of you that have followed us know that we have been delivering on our targets this is the second set that we have since we started new Heights and we are well en route to meet all of these if you are not already there and as you will also see more today turning page to say some few words about this tariff situation unfortunately it's something that we need to spend the time on and i believe it's both unlogical and counterproductive and it doesn't do anyone good and maybe at least the us uh but as a global group of course is something we need to manage and uh it's like any other thing that we are managing in the global business so and i think we are managing it in a in a good way short term we of course have been working on like everyone with pricing management the terms and conditions to manage to ensure that we can actually move on the tariffs and also of course also optimizing our supply chain and i think we are in a good position to to continue to manage this However, there's also this global economy effect and the markets, you know, how they turn and it's increased uncertainty. But all of this, it's also the risk, as we know, for a global GDP slowdown. And we also see, maybe specifically in the US, continued delay of investments decisions because of all the uncertainty. But we have not seen any significant impact on our competitiveness. We have competitors, of course, but they are all in the same position like us. No real making stuff in US. So we also feel very strongly that we are able to pass this on to the market. And we are confident that our model will continue to help us manage through these turbulent times. Turning page and diving into Q1. Started off 25 in a very good and strong way, I would say, continuing our new heights journey, driving profitable growth. We deliver a strong order intake in the quarter, up 16% and reaching now more than 2 billion SEC. We also deliver a strong earning and margin uptick with the margin from now 17.3 versus 16.4 last year. We made a smaller acquisition during the quarter where we acquired key assets from a Spanish company, Kamak Miner, which went bankrupt. And that also says something about the competitiveness now and the difficulty in the construction market where we are managing, I would still say, in a very strong way, in a very difficult market. And I'll come back to this Kamak Miner a little bit later. And altogether, we also report a very solid financial position, taking down our deleveraging to 1.58 in the quarter. And this also, again, really opens the door for us for driving acquisitions, which we're now also working even more actively on. Turning page, the details of Q1 for the group. Order intake was... 2 billion, 0.05, up 16%, 16% of concentrates also. Strong performance in industrial wind facade access and HSPS divisions. Revenue was 1 billion, 732, flat to last year. And EBITDA, we reported 300 million sec up from the 285, giving this margin of 17.3 versus the 16.4. and supported by strong performance in construction and HSPS. So we continue on our strong trend of profitable growth in a very challenging macro environment. And again, I think we are very well positioned to manage what comes ahead of us. Turning page, service. This is, as we all know, a fundamental piece of the group and also for each division. So very happy to see that we are continuing to grow this strongly. Order intake increased by 9% in the quarter, also in fixed currencies. 819 million SEK now, up from 748. Revenue was more or less flat. and 643 versus the 638 creates resilience of course and opportunities and is something we really strategically continue to to drive turning page and diving into the divisions facade access i would say good performance in remaining challenging markets order intake was 496 million sec up 17 or 16 percent that concentrates we saw a strong order intake driven by equipment orders in hong kong and australia and also also with refurbishment orders in malaysia order intake in emea was also strong supported by the middle east and particularly uie While we continue to see that the North American building maintenance unit market for the tall buildings continues to be soft. And that's been there from the pandemic hit and through the interest rates and now through the tariff situation. But it is something that the pipe is there. It's just that it's not being kicked or started. So it will come at some certain stage. Absolutely. Revenue was 482 million SEK, down 1%. EBITDA at 46 million SEK, flat to last year, and also margin-wise, 9.5%, same as last year. And this was negatively impacted in the quarter by some significant work in the final phase of some larger legacy projects. And we have talked about this before that we see that the 25 is the year where we will start to really phase out and should end these older legacy projects. So I can't give you exact timing throughout the year, but it's something that we are now finalizing throughout the year. But also that the building maintenance unit market is soft and that's also of course affecting somewhat our factory utilization. Turning page, we continue to drive what really we can affect, you know, it's the aftermarket service, retrofit, refurbishment and replacement. And this continues to serve us very well. It's an important piece of the business and a growing piece. We also continue to focus heavily on infrastructure and we launched what you can see up right there, infrastructure access solutions. So really to take an even more strategic drive towards the infrastructure. and we also continue to focus on low complexity equipment and we saw good development both in asia pacific and emea in the in the quarter we drive organizational change and the developed organization you know we have closed down a factory in germany last year now it's empty and the land was sold in the quarter while we're also opening a new office in indonesia to also ensure further growth So we continue to drive this transformation program that we have set out to do to secure margin improvements and maintain this focus on these areas I mentioned. And as you also all know now, this is a division which have full focus from Filip. He was in the first phase now of the Tractel integration, managing both Fasadex S and HSPS. While now, you know that, you know, first phase of the tracktail integration, I would say is really done in a very well way. So it was time to really stay true to the full overall concept that we have one EVP for each division. So now Filip will give this division full attention. Turning page, construction, also very solid performance. Order intake was 490 million sec, up 1% and 1% also in fixed rates. Solid order intake for rental in Australia. We saw also used equipment in Europe continues to develop very well for us. But overall also a very high book to bill ratio. And this is a high order intake level. So it's a good level for us. Revenue was 413 million SEK, up 11%, 11 at constant rates. And the increase was driven also by the good order intake in Q4. EBITA margin or EBITA was at 66 million sec up from the 39 giving a margin of 16.1 versus the 10.4 and it was driven by higher volumes and then primarily in hoist mass climbing work platforms and the spare parts which then have led to a improved factory utilization. Turning page. so yeah we made a small acquisition in the quarter we know many of our competitors struggle in these times and have struggled for a long time and this was one that went bankrupt but they have some very nice products that we were able then to acquire the ip We acquired the spare parts and the inventory and of course also the customer lists. And it's some ladder hoist solution they have. They have a hoist or a winch that fits into the Tractel portfolio. hsps and they also have this rack and pinion lighter base which they have more than 2 000 installed machines around the world which we now will both service and provide spare parts and also hopefully convert in due time We have launched the Vectio 350, a lighter transport platform in the quarter and we saw some nice orders coming from this and this is also a machine which is now having this some new features with the smart mode for both safety and ergonomics. The STS-300 that we launched now, it's almost two years ago. It takes time. The industry is very traditional. But now we really start to see this product moving. And this is a machine then to optimize and make more safe and effective installation and the installation of scaffolding systems. overall i would say construction continue to deliver very well in the remaining challenging market we continue to invest in this business and we will for sure be very well positioned for the day when the market really starts to come back Turning page, HSPS, also very good start. Order intake 382 million, up 14%, 13% at constant rates. Strong order intake of temporary access solutions in North America, and also we saw nice orders in the Middle East and India on the elevator customer segment. Revenue was 349 million SEK from 354 down 1% or 2% at constant rates and it's mainly impacted by also the exposure we have here to the construction end market and specifically in Europe then. EBITDA at 70 million SEC, up from 61 million SEC, giving a margin of 20%, 17.4 last year, and driven by and supported by higher gross margin, favorable product mix, and also good cost control. So happy to see this is continuing to deliver well. Turning page. Focus here. Temporary access solutions in North America. Really happy to see it's coming back. It has been slow moving and these are suspended access. Many also call them. So these are, as you see up right in the picture, machines used for maintenance of facade. um hanging up from the top so typically a solution that would be in a city like new york you would see a lot of this so it's not for everywhere but some markets really do this and we have the drive units so it's an important piece for our business We also see continued success in our confined space. It's an initiative that has been driven for quite a long time and now we start to see some business coming both in Spain and in the Netherlands. Water companies are adopting our product. And of course, we continue to drive heavily product development changes. Now we have EVP, which is full time here. Jose Maria that has been driving wind for many years is now full time here. And I'm sure we will see both changes and we will have benefits from really getting both new eyes and the full time focus on this business. Turning page, industrial, also here, very solid start. Order intake was 432 million SEC, up 32% or 31% at fixed rates. Yeah, and the strong growth, of course, leads to a significant backlog increase during the quarter. Good growth for both new equipment and aftermarket. North America, Middle East are the areas within the quarter that are delivering most growth. Revenue was 354 million SEK, down 11%. And this is just due to timing of new equipment deliveries. As you know, this is also project business, not normally that very long project, but still projects. And the timing of when you close them is, of course, important. And that's the only thing that sits in the somewhat lower revenue in the quarter. EBITDA at 90 million SEC, down from 106, giving still a very high margin of 25.3% versus 26.6, but impacted then by lower revenue, partly offset by improved gross margins and also a nice aftermarket sales share. Turning page and industrial, we continue to do what we have done for a long time. We are focusing on customers, we are focusing on segments, being closer, developing better solutions, understanding customer needs. And more and more segments come into this. We are driving, of course, cement, oil and gas, heavy industries. water ports and also data centers is a nice growing area for us so fundamental piece of the strategy then we saw as i mentioned last quarter we developed this mini 400 as a alicom replacement now we have seen the first orders coming and we continue also here to invest in both product development and sales resources globally which you also see a little bit in in their result Sorry. Wind. Strong start also for wind. Order intake was 217 million sec, up 24% or 25% at constant rates. Strong growth for new equipment in Asia Pacific and also a promising start in North and Central Europe. Especially the aftermarket is important in the quarter. Revenue was 153 million sec, flat to last year. So stable. And related to the order intake, of course, but also important to note, it's a very solid uptick in the order book in the quarter. EBITDA at the 28 million SEC, slightly down from the 30 last year, margin of 18.2 versus 19.8. Still, I would say this is the margin which is a good level for this business. It's very competitive. uh this was slight decrease due to some mixed effects and uh you know but here we also continue to invest turning page so yeah continue to drive operational excellence improving processes manufacturing focusing on both safety and efficiency cost out to stay competitive in this industry, but also focusing on the top line, you know, investing in both the markets and also our products to ensure that we will continue to grow in this business. And now it's then Rafa, which was the COO in the wind division over many years, which is now the head of OWIND. So that takes us to the profit and loss and Sylvain.

Thank you very much, Ulle. Good morning, everybody. And then once again, we are pleased to report an adjusted EBITDA growing more than revenue in the quarter. It's a 5% growth for adjusted EBITDA versus almost flat revenue. And I will provide some additional color on the next slide. Items affecting comparability relate to the sale of the Mammondorf real estate. We sold the premises and received 100% of the cash in the quarter. With that sale, the restructuring project is basically completed in a successful way. Below EBITDA, quarterly amortization is coming down. This is due to Intangible assets related to the Tractel acquisitions, which were fully amortized in 2024. Finance net is down as well, and that's coming from a lower debt level, low interest. And with 44 million SEC, we are close to what we expect this year, which is around 40 million SEC per quarter in the year. Taxation rates in the quarter has come down as well slightly to 25.5% versus 26.1% in Q1 2024. And that's basically factoring the evolution in the country mix. With that taxation rate, we are basically very close to what we normally expect in the group, which is around 25% taxation rate as a recurring rate. Combining an improvement in adjusted EBITDA, the moment of capital gain, lower amortization charge, we have a very nice growth in EBIT this quarter. It's a 28% growth. And if we add to that growth the effect of lower finance net, lower taxation rate, that together leads to a very strong increase in the net result for the period. It's a 40% increase versus Q1 last year. Now moving to the main drivers behind the improved adjusted EBITDA. It was a very good quarter for a gross margin. We saw margin expansion for industrial construction and high safety productivity solution divisions. Facade access and wind were flat in the quarter. And there are some, of course, some specific drivers for some divisions explaining the improved gross margin, but there are some common drivers as well. All divisions have been working on their manufacturing costs, on their supply chain, on their ability to pass on to the market unavoidable cost increases. And those actions play a big role in the gross margin improvement in the quarter. Regarding operating expenses, if one excludes the effect of items affecting comparability, we saw a slight increase in the quarter as a percentage of revenue, 24.8% versus 24% in Q1 2024. And that increase is basically due to the industrial division, which has a larger sales organization in order to support the growth. All other divisions were either flat or slightly decreasing their G&A in the quarter. despite some cost inflation, typically labor, despite some increases in specific expenses, such as product development, digital. So that shows that we continue working on our cost efficiency, increasing expenses, which are required to serve our strategy, but reducing some costs as well when we don't need them. Let's move on to the result for the period. So as I said earlier, it's a 40% growth in the quarter to 184 million SEC versus 131 million SEC in Q1 2024. Excluding items affecting comparability, the result for the period was 156 million SEC versus 135 last year. That's a 16% increase. EPS was 1.74 sec versus 1.24 last year and adjusted for items affecting comparability and acquisition related amortization, EPS was 1.79 sec versus 1.66 in Q1 last year. If we move to cash flow now, cash flow from operations was 175 million SEC this quarter, slightly below last year. It was a bit soft and mostly related to an increase in working capital driven by higher inventories. Some of it is due to temporary increases, for example, work in progress in Facade Access corresponding to projects which will be fully delivered later in the year, so it will be reversed. Some of it may correspond to additional businesses such as mass climbing work platforms in Australia in the construction division. In the long run, we are confident we can keep working capital stable as a percentage of revenue and we will continue to focus highly on cash generation. Next page relates to net debt and ROSI. Net debt came down to 2.4 billion SEC in the quarter versus 2.6 2.6, sorry, end of Q4 2024. And that decrease is driven by the revaluation of the EuroTerm law mainly. Our leverage came down to 1.58. That was 1.79 at the end of Q4 2024 and 2.26 at the end of Q1 last year. And of course, this is well in line with our financial target of being below 2.5. As I just said, we will continue to focus on operating cash flow. That's very important to us. Our capital allocation priorities remain unchanged. We invest in organic growth. I alluded earlier to sales, product development, digital. We are actively working on acquisitions. We have a growing funnel. And of course, with the lower leverage, we do have the necessary dry product to deliver on those acquisitions financially. We are committed to delivering on our dividend policy, which is to pay 40% to 60% of our net earnings. Of course, this is ultimately a board proposal and AGM decision. And one final comment on return on capital employed, which has been going up and we are pleased to see that up to 25.4% excluding goodwill, 10.4% including goodwill. The increase is basically driven by the improved EBIT. Most of this improvement comes from a better recurring performance of the business of course in the quarter the higher ebit was supported by the moment of capital gain but again it's mostly driven by the better improve better recurring performance on that positive note i'm handing over to ule thank you sylvan so turning to the summary slide

uh so overall a strong start to the year and something we are happy with uh continue to deliver on on the new heights program and the order intake as we said about two billion sec mark in the quarter increase of 16 percent and the contribution by all divisions so very nice to see uh we increased the group earnings and margins and took another significant step up in in the margin from the 16.4 to the 17.3 which makes us very well en route to deliver on the north of 18 percent as we have said yeah now close to two years ago from within two to three years We are managing and we will manage also, we believe, the increased market uncertainty due to the US tariffs. We have a good setup that will manage this. We do have a solid financial position. We have a good business model. both from a strategic perspective but also from an operational perspective and this will allow us to continue to invest I'm sure in our profitable growth agenda like we have also done in Q1 so we remain committed to our financial and sustainability targets and would like to thank all our employees customers and partners for another good quarter and taking the group to new heights So with that, we turn page and move to Q&A.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad. To enter the queue, if you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key 6 on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Andreas Koski from BNP Paribas Exane. Please go ahead.

Thank you and good morning. I hope the line is good enough and that you can hear me. I want to start with tariffs. I think you generate around 25-30% of group sales in the US. How much of that is imported and how much do you import from China?

Yeah, I can't give you exact numbers, you know, but it's unfortunate now that Maybe you should mute when I talk Andreas, maybe that's the reason why it's echo. Thank you. Most of what we sell in the US is imported, but that's the same thing with also the competitors. So we strongly believe that we are in a position to move this forward to the market. Very minor is coming out of China, so that has no real effect on us as a business. We moved some of that away already when the first tariff rounds came with Trump's first period, so it's hardly anything left from China.

The next question comes from Andreas Koski from BNP Paribas Exxon. Please go ahead.

Thanks. Hopefully it will be better now. So I heard your question. Thanks for that. And how much would you have to raise your selling prices to offset the tariffs as they stand today? And have you already raised your prices? How do you plan to implement them?

No, but we have worked on our terms and conditions, so tariffs will be passed on the way they hit, but we also work with our supply chain. It's a lot of details there that will not be So in certain areas, it will not be influenced by tariffs. But I can't give you an exact number. And this varies also from division to division. But we are working on pricing and we are pushing forward pricing. So we feel relatively confident that this will be managed and not really a significant impact or any impact in that sense to the business. The more concern, which is the overall uncertainty about market development, global GDP and the investment decision taking and so forth, but not specifically the tariff impact for us, because also competition is in the same position.

And we couldn't see any of that in your order intake in Q1, which was very, very strong. Do you think some of that strong order intake was driven by pre-ordering ahead of tariffs or is the order intake number reflecting the underlying situation and more sustainable?

Yeah, we didn't have any specific high order intake in the US this quarter. So no, it's not the order intake. It's not driven by stock up or pre-buying in the US, not. And you saw we had good order intake in Q4, and we are also now continuing, but even stronger order intake in Q1 for a group. So there is, you know, I think we are getting paid for what we are actually been good at doing for over a long, long time. Be close to our customers, develop new products, you know, and be good at what we do and focused, you know, and we continue to be that. And I'm sure we...

we take market shares and that we are ahead of the game now but the market overall we can't influence you know but in this market we are doing well yeah and i agree it's a very uncertain market and i would be surprised if we don't see say decision making among customers becoming slower but have you started to see any of that already in april or is that yet to come if it will happen

I can't say that we have seen any specifics of that, you know, and but of course, that's the biggest uncertainty. But then again, you have positive or if you can call it that, you know, or new turbulent news the other day that tariffs will most likely be reduced, you know, and that might not be power will be fired and you know so there are also signs that maybe things are or could be calming down a little bit which and it's difficult to say how much of that you need to see for you know giving confidence to the market that that actually investments can go on so it's a very uncertain but it's not all black yep and then lastly on the on the facade access margin and apologize if i missed this already but

it was a somewhat weaker margin than I am I guess consensus expected and we know the drivers of that but what about the coming quarters do you still have those larger legacy projects to be delivered or was this sort of a one-off in q1 and now they've been delivered and the margins should bounce back already in q2

These projects are not delivered. These projects are still ongoing, but they have been with us for a long, long time. But they should be closed by the end of the year. I can't give an exact timing. Some might be closed in Q2, some in Q3. And I can't say also exactly the impact in each quarter. But we should be able to phase out, as we have said all along, all these old legacy projects during 2025. And I think if you look at the overall trend, I'm also disappointed being flat quarter of a quarter. But if you look at the overall trend, I feel still very confident and we are developing positively with this business. So we will change it the way we have said.

Perfect. Thank you very much for the help. Thank you.

The next question comes from Anna Woodstrom from Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Hello, can you hear me, guys?

Yes, very good. Thank you. Hello.

Okay, good. So just first question to maybe get some clarification.

and given that you're working with price increases and so on should we view the order intake as mainly relating to volumes or is there a significant price effect in that as well no i wouldn't say it's a significant price effect in that not not nothing uh extraordinary absolutely not so that's the uh nothing different to before you know we constantly work on pricing and we you know but this is the most is the volume and the that effect so yeah

Okay, good. And then going to the moment of closure, sorry. Has that started to affect profitability positively? And if so, how should we think about the sort of underlying profitability effects?

Yes, that's now affecting profitability positively. Absolutely. But as I said, you know, what we had a negative counter effect now in this quarter with these legacy projects, but also the fact that the order intake for new bigger machines, you know, BMUs has been low for quite a long time. And that also affects our one remaining factory, you know, which is a factory in Spain. So they had a lower load in the quarter. And that is not a quick turnaround in this picture either, you know, because that order intake has been low for a while. But we have the full effect now from the closure of Mammendorf.

Great. And thinking about the timing of the new equipment deliveries in industrial, Is that delivery that has sort of been postponed into Q2 and should we maybe view parts of the margin decrease year over year as also a timing effect that should be potentially offset in Q2?

yeah i think it's first of all this it's just the timing so i can't promise that all of them and that you will have it all back you know plus anything you know because this is always a timing question you know but but absolutely when you have less in a quarter then typically you would have a little bit you know you they will come back because they are there they are due to be invoiced you know and delivered so uh but sometimes it's uh more projects taking more time than others taking shorter time and yeah you're close and this is Also, what I've been talking about since I came here, you know, you have this lumpiness in the quarters, basically in all divisions to some extent, you know, so you need to see it that way. When you talk about margin, you said margin is lower. I wouldn't agree. You know, yes, technically, but it's still a 25, 26% EBITDA margin in industrial, which is very, very good. So, you know, Being at that level, I think, is something that I'm happy with, even though, of course, you always want to push it. But just to make the point that we don't see that as a big problem.

Yes, that's very clear. Thank you. And just looking regionally, it seems Europe remains in a bit more negative territory while the Americas and APAC is growing. What is your sort of sense of the European market dynamic currently and maybe going forward?

I think Europe has slowly and steadily started to improve a little bit from a construction perspective, but still Europe has been very slow for a long time. And and then again, now you also have this uncertainty in the market, you know, with the tariffs and inflation and whatnot. But long term, you know, I think the opposite, this will strengthen Europe and it will force more investments. We have already heard about several countries, what they talk about, you know, defense investments. And this will be this is money that will go into the market. Yes, they go into defense, but that trickles down in the overall industry and the society in general, all of that money. So these investments will strengthen Europe. it's just a question of timing but I think slowly and steadily we should start to see Europe coming back unless there is some sort of fundamental global slowdown you know that will affect again the market for some time you know but that remains to be seen on how on what happens with the tariffs perfect and then just the last one for me leverage continues to improve and just given the uncertainty in the market how is your thinking about M&A in the near term Our thinking is that it's an important piece of the group strategy and as I've said also many times you know when we did Taktel that was such a size and significance that I needed to ensure that we you know landed that well before we took on other things also not at least due to the legacy of the two previous acquisitions before my time that wasn't really managed that well. And we are now in a position where we have proven that we can handle this well. We are in a position where we have really deleveraged in a very solid way and strong financially, even though it's a lot of turbulence around us. So we are ready to invest this money wisely. And we have a nice funnel. We work very intense on that. So I would be disappointed if we don't start to see some things coming.

Great, thank you. I'll get back in line.

Thank you.

As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments.

Thank you. We have a couple of written questions to us here. So we start with the first one from cash flow statement. You paid 28 million SEK for earn out. Was this related to tall grains? I think I'll hand that to Monsieur Sylvain.

And the short answer is yes. And just to be complete, that's the final payment. So there is no

no pending payment in that respect yeah okay so that should give a clear answer to that question then we have another question there you wrote about rolling our out integrated design services ids in the emea apac regions in the annual letter have this started if yes what have been the responses so far and is this kind of service unique or does the or does competitors offer the same service good question first of all yes it's being rolled out yes we are starting to see business coming from this and is this unique both yes and no it's not unique in the presence you know this is something which exists in the market but it's unique that we as a supplier does it so that also means that our competitors as far as I know they don't do it And why do we do it? Yes, because, you know, in this specific business, you need to understand the business model, you know, and that was something when I got there, we started to, okay. And then we learned that we are actually in the backseat when we sell new equipment. You know, we offer our machines to consultants and architects, not to the real end user of this machinery. or the general contractors per se. So we work with so-called middlemen and that is actually putting us outside where we would like to be. It's difficult to sell the value when you are in that position. So that's when we decided that we want to change this concept. We are too far out in the value chain. We want to be closer to the real decision makers. So then we said, OK, let's start that consulting ourselves. You know, let's be that type of consultant to the general contractor instead of they using third party players. And that has been very, very, very well appreciated because the existing consultants, they have to come to us anyway as a supplier. So now we are just cutting one layer and we are in the prime position to work with the general contractors to show the value. And we are also, of course, in the prime position to ensure that it's designed for the most valued solution, which should be ours. So that's the idea and the concept behind it. And it works. so with that i hope i answered that question and we don't have any further written questions here so with that i think we close it from our end and again thank you to everyone thank you for good questions and for those of us following us and to our employees customers partners thank you until next time goodbye