Addnode Group AB (publ)

Welcome to the AdNode Group Q1 2025 presentation. During the questions and answers session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing pound key five on their telephone keypad. Now I will hand the conference over to the CEO, Johan Andersson and CFO, Christina Elfstrom-McIntosh. Please go ahead.

Hello everyone and welcome to the presentation of the AdNode Group Q1 report for 2025. I'm CEO Johan Andersson and with me, I have also the CFO Christina Elfstrom-McIntosh. The agenda for today's meeting is that we will go through the interim report for Q1 2025 in some in-depth details. We will end up with a Q&A. And I would also like to highlight that in the presentation, we'll find an appendix with further material. So just to remind you, AdNode Group, our purpose is all about digitalization for a better society. For innovation and continuous development in close collaboration with our customers, we create digital solutions for specific needs. The software and digital solutions that we provide design buildings, infrastructure and cities, and also the products that we all use every day, like cars and all the way to life science. When things have been designed and built, it need to be maintained with a life cycle perspective and the public sector has a responsibility for rules and regulations, our digital solutions make it possible. Starting off with the business conditions Q1. In AdNode Group, we have a diversified operations in several different segments with underlying structural growth. The digital solutions we deliver to architects, technical consultants, the manufacturing industry, the fans industry, and the public sector in both Europe and the US has a stable demand. Looking at the different geographies, we have had stable business in all geographies we operate in, with the exception of the German market, where market conditions continue to decline. Our business model, with a high share of recurring revenue provides a secure foundation in times of greater uncertainty. Our services are also to a high degree of what we could be labeling as a recurring nature. With that as a starting point, I would like to hand over to our CFO, Christina, who will guide you through the Q1 financial figures.

Thank you, Johan. Yeah, I will take you through the highlights of Q1 and we think this is a stable results quarter and also cost initiatives that we have made. I'm going to present a little bit more about that. But if we start from the net sales amounted in the quarter to about 1.5 billion SEK compared to 2.4 billion SEK last year, and this is as we anticipated, a decrease. It's 39% and the effective just decrease was minus 41%. And as we have been speaking about the last 18 months, the changes in the new transaction model within design management from Autodesk has made the change, the decrease. And if we look at the same principles that we had in Q1 last year, net sales would have amounted to 2.5 billion SEK and that is approximately a currency just organic growth of 3%. And net sales was solid both in US and in Europe without the exception of Germany. And in Germany, the market conditions continued to deteriorate and sales were considerably weaker than in the previous period, particularly in the automotive industry. And as a result thereof, the division PLM has introduced a cost adjustment program. And in the results for the Q1 this year, approximately 25 million SEK has been taken as the program cost for the program. And after the costs taken for the restructuring, EBITDA amounted to 217 million SEK compared to 253 last year. And the EBITDA margin improved to .9% compared to 10.5 last year. And adjusted for the restructuring cost, EBITDA would have been 241 million SEK on the margin of 16.5%. And going down the information line, cash flow from operations amounted to 203 million SEK compared to 381 last year. And the major changes is mainly due to working capital. And I'm gonna go through in more detail where this come from later on in the presentation. And we also continue to do acquisition and year to date we have acquired three companies and Congere, Rayleigh and Paceskog. And Johan will talk more about those newly acquired companies going forward. And I'll hand over to Johan to speak about that.

So in 2025, as of today, we have made three acquisitions. Looking at the one Congere, assistance application for the defense industry, where you will find customers such as the Swedish Armed Forces, the Swedish Defense Materials Administration and Saab. In the middle you'll find Rayleigh, it's an innovative SaaS solution for the railway industry. Customers include Arlanda Express, Nordiska Tog, Snelltog, the Swedish Transport Administration. And to the right you will find Paceskog, it's a SaaS company in digital forest management plants. It will strengthen our company's ice bounce position and offering within digital solution for the forest industry. So it's three good example of acquisition complementing the portfolio that we have in process management. So, Adner Group has since the inception in 2003 made more than eight acquisitions supporting the growth. We have several active acquisition processes underway and acquisitions are an important part of Adner Group's growth strategy. Thanks to our strong financial position with low debt, Adner Group can continue executing on its long-term value-creating acquisition strategy with a healthy risk appetite, even in more turbulent times. We are organized in three divisions. And Christina, as we said, as you see on this slide, you will see our share and distribution of net sales gross profit in EBITDA on the different divisions. So if we go deeper in our divisions, so let's start with design management. The monitoring design management division was stable in both Europe and the US in the first quarter. Sales of property or software display good growth in the quarter, both in the company symmetry, SWG and trivia. The drop in net sales and significant increase in gross margin, EBITDA margin is to relate it to a change in business model and is as expected. So this means that we are moving to a more of a high margin business that we will continue with regards to the EBITDA margin and has to do, like we said, with the transition of the business model. So it's as expected. Under the previous, with the old model and before reclassification of third-party agreements, our adjusted organic growth would have been 3% in this business area. I would also like to remember that the Q1 in 2024 was an exceptionally strong comparative quarter with a growth of 34%. But all in all, stable delivery in a demanding environment and nothing has changed with regards to demands compared to Q4. Looking at PLM, we can see that sales for PLM systems related services were stable in the Nordic countries, the UK and the US, where we have more diversified customer segments, spanning from manufacturing, defense and life sciences. During the quarter sales to the defense industry increased, reflecting a continued positive demand trend. Before reclassification of third-party agreements, the division's currency adjusted organic growth amounted to 3%. However, market conditions continue to deteriorate in Germany, where sales were considerably weaker than in the previous period, particularly in the automotive industry. As a result, a savings program has been introduced in the division. The implementation costs for the program amounted to approximately 24 million that has been charged to Q1. The annual cost savings from the program are estimated at approximately 45 million. If we exclude the charge cost for the savings program, EBITDA would have been 28 million compared to 41 last year, and the EBITDA margin would have been 6.3%. So looking at process management, the division delivered a strong quarter with growth and improved EBITDA margins. The division's organic growth amounted to 5%. The market climate for division remained unchanged, with stable demand for case management and geographic information systems from the public sector. While the number of tenders still is on the low side, our assessment is that we are gaining market share in terms of the number of tenders won. So with that, I would like to hand over to our CFO, who will guide you through the cash flow.

Yes, thank you very much, Johan. And looking at the cash flow from operation, you can see the 203 million SEK was a decrease from the last quarter, last year's quarter, of amounted to 381. And it's mainly impacted by changes in working capital that you can see above the numbers. And it's relating mainly to changes within design division. And just to explain a little bit more what has happened in Autodesk, which we communicated already in 2023, all the three-year contracts were paid up front for all the three years. Now, the payments from the customers are based annually over three terms, so payments year by year. And that has an effect. And in Q1 2024, we had a lot of prepayments for the three-year contracts. So this means that the working capital has a deficit in compared to the last year's quarter. And this should not be confused with the change of Autodesk transaction model. It has to do with the payment terms before starting 2023. And hence the cash flow from operation is mainly coming from the changes in working capital and the decrease also in the operating profits. If you look at the financing activities, it's mainly relating to the payments of the newly acquired companies and also payment to the sellers made in five years.

And, Kristina, just as we discussed, the changes in working capital related to the payment terms of the three years is a transition, meaning that as we go through this transition and the payment that we'll start paying here, means that somewhere in 2026, we will be back in a more normalized capital as we had previously. So it's just a transition when we go through changes in payment terms, it's more like you're building a SaaS model stock, as you can be described. So it's a transition and we will move back to sort of a more of a normalized working capital and that will take us through 2025. So it's part of what we have already communicated, so not the new news, but we see the effect of it now more deeply in this quarter and then we will be back in 2026 and more normalized.

Right, thank you, Johan. If we look then into the balance sheet, as for to inform you that this is the operational balance sheet and it's not the balance sheet that we present in the report. And as you can see, we continue to operate support by resilient balance sheet. It's an important foundation for the growth, both organically and through acquisitions. And the changes in the balance sheet during 2024, 2025, is mainly derived from the acquisitions and also effects adjustments that has an impact on the balance sheet. And you can also see that we still operate with a negative working capital and we continue to do so. It's minus five or two, that you can see that working capital. And also going down, looking at the provision taxes and other debts, that includes mainly the earn-out payments and in a total amount of 459. And the majority is for the similar to US and the TD3 acquisitions. And the payments will be made for the rest of 2024 of about 160 million SEK and due in 2026 is about 250 million and the rest in later years. Net debt has come down, it's now 936 and affected by currency effects also in the loans in foreign currency that we have. Cash position was 680 compared to 674 31st of December, 2024. And you can also see that out of the facilities of 2.6 billion that we have, we have unutilized about one billion that we can use for future acquisitions as well. And then I'm gonna hand over back to Johan.

Thank you, Kristina. To sum up the first quarter of 2025, I would like to do that with the backdrop of our annual group's reported net sales and EBITDA has evolved since 2015. 2015, our EBITDA was 168 million and 2025 rolling 12 month end of first quarter, our EBITDA is 836 million. We are year over year, delivering on our growth strategy, combining organic growth with the value creating acquisition strategy, delivering EBITDA compounded annual growth rate of 19% of this time period. We are in the middle of a business model transition and how we recognize sold third party software. As seen in the graph, reported net sales goes down, rolling 12 month 2025 compared to 2024 full year, but EBITDA trend is on the path. This is as we have expected and have communicated. Looking at the business in Q1 2025, it is a solid quarter in a demanding environment with one exception being the German market. And we are addressing that with cost reductions and saving that will give effect already in the second quarter. Annual group has diversified operations in different regions and segments with underlying structural growth. The digital solutions we deliver to architects, technical consultants, the manufacturing industry the defense industry and the public sector in both Europe and the US are in demand. We deliver business critical digital solutions and our business model with a large proportion of recurring revenue is a security in more uncertain times. However, the economic and geopolitical situation remains uncertain and primarily affects the customer decision-making processes for major investment decisions. Our business is not directly subject to tariffs. We sell digital solutions, not goods. We are monitoring the situation closely and we'll continue to adjust costs. Looking ahead, there is a good demand for the business critical solutions that we provide and cost adjustments will improve profitability. So with that, we would like to open up for Q&A.

To ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Frederick Nielsen from Redeye. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good morning, Johan and Kristina. I have a few questions regarding the LM. The underlying organic growth was slightly positive yet the adjusted EBITDA margin fell from above nine to above 6% and gross profit is slightly up. The number of employees basically unchanged. So what is driving the declining adjusted margin year over year?

Basically what you're saying that you expected a higher margin, compare

that

or?

Given that the organic underlying growth was slightly positive, yeah.

But in a quarter, you can have a probably have a mix also of what have been driving. So you can see that probably where you can see that the things, for example, we had a 6% organic growth there, but we are probably the costs are going up a little bit and you have a mix of what we have sold in the quarter. I think that's where to go. So, and we are adjusting that with the cost savings going forward as well. So I think, so there's no major big, it's just that we had a little bit too much cost and we are adjusting that. And we had a mix with a little bit more of a license sale last year. But I think that's the only reason why, so to speak. So, and with the cost, we are adjusting that now going forward.

Okay, and also regarding PLM, in what way is the automotive market weakening further? Are you seeing churn within customers R&D, for example?

What's happening is that they are, for example, we don't see churn, but we don't see any new major churn. There are new sales and new sales with regards to service. They are churn in services, meaning that they are not driving as much projects and not so much churn in the software because the software that they have, they will continue to use in their R&D department. What happened is that as they are not hiring new people and they are more of the other side that they are letting some people go, then they will not drive new projects, new services. So the churn, yes, you have a little bit of churn on the software side because they use it, but that's not more of it. It's more of the services that they need to drive new products and help from our sides are not happening. And then that affects the billability. So it's more of that type of churn.

Okay, and last question, when will the cost savings be realized approximately?

It will start in Q2 already, you will see the effect. And then it will increase gradually over the year. So that means that we said that the full year effect of the cost savings introduced will be about 45 million. You will not see the full 45 million in this year, but if we can realize half of it, it will be as expected. And then it will be starting gradually in Q2 and then increasing over the year.

Okay, great. That's all for me. Thank you very much. Okay.

The next question comes from Eric Larson from SEB. Please go ahead.

Thank you. I have a few questions, mostly on design. Firstly, on the cashflow here, helpful comments. And I know this change has been coming for a while. I think we've discussed it before, but I just have a question to sort of understand it fully here. First of all, I'm curious when this change went into effect because I thought, or my understanding is that customers have already had the opportunity to pay once per year, also last year. But what you're saying is that many customers still paid for three years regardless. And now that alternative is no more or?

Yes, that is right. It's already in 2023 when we communicated that Autodesk was changing from the three-year upfront payment to annual payment. But customers have, some customers have still paid upfront, even during 2024 and even by the end of 2024. That amount is going down quite dramatically. And, but we could still see that in 2024. It's getting less and less customers paying upfront. They had the opportunity to do annual payments, but some of them still wanted to pay upfront.

And that's one thing. And then we also have to realize that it takes three plus years to walk through the change, meaning that the tail needs to connect with the front, meaning that if you have every, it's not just a matter of choice, because if you're selling a three-year contract, we recognize the full value in the P&L, and then we get a third in the cashflow. So that means that it takes three years because to go through that cycle. And then during this period, we also increase a little bit of the total number of the three-year deals. So that means that the full transition varies three years plus, meaning that if you move from 2023, and then we need to move into 2026 to get sort of a more of a normalized capital. And this could fluctuate between the different quarter, but on a yearly basis, it will take three years plus to do that transition on the full customer base.

And I just want to reiterate also that it shouldn't be confused with the change in the transaction model. This is the payment terms for the three-year contracts.

Yeah, yeah, great. So just to clarify, I guess we should assume weaker cashflow this year, given the timing in Q1 being important in that sense. And then seeing more normalized levels as of next year.

Yes, we think that this will be going on for the 2025. We are at the bottom of that effect, and 2026 will be more normal in terms of cashflow from operations, from the design, this effect.

Okay, thanks. I just have two other questions on trivia here in design. You wrote in the report that their earnings declined here in Q1. So could you just talk a bit about their exposure and the general outlook?

Did we, sorry, and we're, just to be honest, where did you find that information?

You're putting me on the spot here. I read it in the report.

No, I think to be fair, I think what we said with trivia is that their result was in level with last year.

Okay, maybe I had it wrong there. Okay, I'll get back to you later if I misunderstood. Okay, sorry about that. I can take another question instead. Still on design, because it's easy to be cautious when looking at macro data in the US

and

so forth, but it sounds like design for you is doing fairly well. I mean, the outlook is okay. So where do you find this confidence? Are you looking at your own pipeline, listening to customers, or could you just help us there?

We're looking at our pipeline, pipeline and our customers. So we feel that we, you can always argue how far, but if you look ahead under the coming six, seven months or something, we have a good visibility in our pipeline for both services and our software. That's where our confidence are coming from. And some external figures is also that we looked at, for example, you could see that the SOAR, the system released their figures, I think it was yesterday, and then they had a 9% growth in the US market and in the European market, it was 1% on their sales. So I think there are a lot of things going on from the geopolitical situation, but if we look at US as a standalone market, it's still quite positive in the short term with regards to services and the way we can deliver software to our customers.

Okay, that was my question. So I'll get back in the queue.

Thanks. Thanks. The next question comes from Daniel Thorson from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead.

Yes, hi. Thank you very much. First, a question on the sign. The EBITDA drop year over year looks quite large, given that you say that the adjusted organic growth would have been or is 3%, and also three-year licenses are up year over year versus the strong Q1 last year. And despite this, EBITDA is down 8% year over year. What is really behind that? Is it higher services related costs, higher optics, lower utilization on consultants or own software or should be something else?

I think. I think the most part of that is probably with regards to services being delivered for that. So it's not a made, it's not a, so we have a little bit of that and probably some of the margins. So I think there's not just one explanation. It's unfortunate that we have some, we had a, and I think three things. Last year was very strong in all things. And what happened is that when you have a very strong quarters, everything get extra boosted with regards to sales because we have a sort of a good leverage in our organization on when we say sale more because the costs are fixed, that sort of people. So when we're really good at selling, that has a good leverage on the upside. That's one of the things. So that's basically saying they had a good comparison. So that explains a big part of the sort of the margins. And then we probably had a little bit of less sales in services. We don't really talk about Easter effects and et cetera. So, but probably had a little bit of that and then Martin. So there's no major part, but I think the most sort of the biggest explanation is that last year was really good.

Yeah, no, I understand that. It was just related to your comment that the adjusted organic growth in the sign would have been plus 3% this year.

So this

year is even better than last year on sale. So it's not like it's down 10% year over year. Then I would have, I would have understand. They did. So, yeah, but it may be related to the services or own software revenues perhaps, which has a higher profitability than third party. Okay, I have another one on PNM then. What type of roles will be affected by the restructuring? Is it sales people because you see demand is coming down, the market is weaker or is it rather unutilized consultants that you have? So it's more of a cost issue that you would like to solve.

It's both. So, but I think the majority is that we need to adjust the organization to the current run rate. That's where you'll find sort of the most of things happening. So that means that on a sort of percentage level, it's more of adjusting to the current run rate rather than, but having said that, so you will find both people in sales and delivery in this.

Okay, I see. And then the final question, which I'm not sure if we have talked about historically, but on FX revaluation of balance sheet items like accounts receivables, given the weak FX rates at the end of the quarter versus the average FX rates. Is that something that has a negative impact on earnings in Q1 here? Is that affecting your PNL on a beta or is that something that you take outside the PNL?

Yeah, if we re-evaluation the subsidiaries that you will see going directly into equity or the total result data and for all also for the loans that we have against the acquisitions that we also have in the balance sheet provided for the acquisition, it's also in the equity revaluation. And you can also see during the end of the quarter, the FX had a more negative effect. We had the trend from the results were positive at the beginning of the quarter where the FX had a lesser effect.

Yeah, no, I understand. But I was a bit curious about the operating items on the balance sheet, the more the accounts receivables or the payable side, if that has a negative effect on the PNL because some companies report that as another operating expense, for example, that you are revaluing your accounts receivables in the PNL which has a negative effect on operating profit. So I was just curious if you do it that way or not because that could explain some 5, 10 million bit of drop here.

Yeah, no, we don't report that separately. And also we are as far as possible hedging internally the same currency in the sales side with a cost of sales side. So we're trying to do that as far as possible, but we don't separate that in the income statement.

Okay, I see. Okay, that's

all. Thank you very much. The next question

comes from Raymond K. from Nordia. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. A couple of questions for me first, starting with the PLM and declining German market there. Could you maybe help us understand just roughly how much is automotive in Germany for you? And do you see it spread to sort of other industries outside of auto specifically?

If you look at from a group perspective, about 10% of our sales are related to Germany. So we generate and that is you will find in the PLM division. And then you can always debate about how much that is automotive. But being in Germany, you're dependent on the automotive work market. So the major big part of the business there in the PLM division, those 10% is related to the automotive industry. So, and the automotive industry being both the sub suppliers to supply channel and those, the big automotive guys. So probably close to half of the business there in Germany are probably related to the automotive business, both providing services and software to them. Having said that, we can see that they are opening up a lot of investments in the German market from the public sector as well, the defense spending, et cetera, holding up there. We have some customers in live science, et cetera, they are continuing to grow as well. So we are not seeing that it's sort of expanding to other sort of sub sectors in the market other than it is in Germany and the German sort of market are dependent on what's happening in the automotive industry. So it's probably harder to just separate it from the rest of the economy. So it's a two sided question from that perspective, but we don't see it. So it's more of a disbanding from the automotive industry, we can see it in the US.

That's a very helpful flavor there, Johan. And then on the layoffs that you implemented here now, are they sort of based on the current market and demand, or do you think you're doing sort of enough so that even if the market was to weaken further from here, you will have done sufficient, just sort of trying to understand how much downturn you are bracing yourselves with this action?

And I guess if you're looking at, you will never know if you have done enough because there are no certain guarantees in this type of business. But I think we have done what is necessary to have a healthy profit in PLM this year compared to historical numbers, if the market is continuing on the level as it is today. So we are not basing this sort of cost save programs that the market will be sufficiently better this year. We're basing on that. It will sort of be on the low side this year, and this cost savings will be enough to generate a healthy profit in the division.

Got it, that makes sense. And then on the sign and the tough comps you talked about there, for how many quarters sort of into 2024 do you regard as having exceptional growth and this tough comps or was it really just Q1 that was the one sticking out? I

think it was the ones sticking out. And we have, Adder Group is quite with our history, you will see that the quarters are sort of, I'm sure I explained it. We don't have an even distributed from year to year, quarter to quarter to quarter business, but on the long term, the business is trending upwards. So that means that, yes, I think if you look at this year, you will find that it was the Q1 who was a really good quarter. So if you look at, for example, Q2 and Q3, I'm not saying that we will have sort of, we always have tough quarter, but compared to last year when we have, I think it was 34% growth in the design business, we will not have those exceptional comps going forward.

Yeah, got it. And just the final one, in Q4, you won a record order in the US with Naviate and gave the impression that you had some momentum there with your proprietary software. Do you still feel sort of positively about the US or how is the sentiment over there a quarter later?

We are still positive about the US market. And I think it was one of the previous question was, what do you base that upon? It's more than we can see what our pipeline is going forward. And we expect that we can still continue to sell our own software in the US market as well. But it would be very nice if we can have record sales in Naviate every quarter, but we will not have that. So it's a journey, we have started it, we will do more of those deals. And as we go forward, we will hopefully be able to report that, but we will not be able to report those things every quarter.

Perfect, thank you so much for answering my questions. I'll get back in line.

No problem, thank you.

Before we go to next, I would just like to go back to Dahlia Torsson's question here about the revaluation. And of course we do revaluation if that was unclear, both for accounts payables and accounts receivable in the OPEX, but we don't separate that in the income statements. I might have been a bit unclear about that.

The next question comes from Daniel Gerberg from Handelsbanken, please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. Yeah, a couple of from me as well, most questions asked, but obviously March is the most important month in Q1. And but still, can you give some insights on how the development has been during the quarter and also starting in April, April has been this roller coaster

month

so far. So in terms of demands in your end markets, uncertainty there.

Thank you, Daniel. Looking at the end of the group, yes, last quarter is always important, but for us also sometimes the first month in the quarter is important. And it has to do with our relationship with Autodesk. They have a, but their year ends in January. And then so it means that this last month of the quarter will be our first month of the quarter. So for us, and that has a tendency to drive sales in that. So it means that we are both dependent on the start and the end of the quarter, just to confirm that. But going back to your guess, what's your question, how was our confidence in the business compared to the end of the quarter and the start of this quarter? I think we are still confident about the business that we are running compared to the market that we have today. So we don't see any changes. So if you look at the market side, if you separate the German market that we've talked about, and then we talk about the rest of the business in that group, we still feel that we have sort of a, we use the word stable, and stable meaning that nothing has really changed in the business that we deliver to our customers compared to the beginning of this quarter and how we can see the start of this quarter. If you look at what the sales reports and set away, of course we don't have the figures for March, but of course we follow sales figures and pipelines and et cetera. So we feel quite okay with things going forward.

I was also going to ask you a little bit about on the average deal sizes, the ASP in both PLM and design, when you're looking at the funnel, are they more conservative in deploying larger projects?

They, yes and no. We can see that in some businesses, the really, really sort of the big sort of transition projects that could be of a, the sort of the mega projects are not happening right now. So they are on the sort of on the waiting list. When you go to the boardroom as a customer and you ask them, could I please have 200 millions to run a digital transformation project, then they probably would say, oh, let's wait another quarter. But if you look at the sort of the normal size deals that we are doing, those are still happening. Yeah.

I also ask you, we should look at the potential negative impact from right sizing or downsizing among customers, given that you have this delay from recurring revenues and obviously what's seen now was starting off earlier with the customers. So do you think we are in the midst of this? So we are, or do you, should we expect to see a worsening trend of, you know, of made already made right sizing that would be impacting your business later on? Just if you understand the question.

Yes. No, but I think this is something that has been going on in the markets that we are in for the last couple of years that customers are doing like us, they are addressing costs, making sure that they have their company in order. So I think it's been an ongoing process for the last two, three years and something that we are living in. So I don't expect that there will sort of be, you never know with this world, but if you look at what we know, so we don't see that we have sort of something ahead of us that will worsen the situation compared with that. So the answer on that is no.

Perfect. Good. And also you had strong performance in process management, obviously, good recurring business and the EBITDA was up 14%, I think. Can you say something about the outlook and the business performance, mainly in the various sort of assets?

Yeah, I think they're off to a good start and had a good trend from the last year in the process division. I think it's a mix of existing operations being run more efficiently and we're looking and we have some growth organic and there's some price increases adding to the mix as well. And then we have done some acquisitions lately that are also helping with the performance of the group. So I think it's a mix of they are running an efficient organization right now. They are in a market where they are in demand for the things that they are delivering, both mostly to the public sector, local municipalities, also defense industries. So there is a little bit of all of the above and they are doing it well.

That's great. Yeah, good luck Q2 here and I hope to see you lesser roller coaster.

Yeah,

development in the world. Thanks Daniel.

More questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Thank you for taking the time to listen in and.

Yes, thank you very much and have a good weekend when it comes.