Bergman & Beving AB (publ)

Thank you very much. Welcome everyone to the Bergman & Beving interim report for our Q3 quarter. My name is Magnus Söderlin, I'm the CEO and on my side here I have Peter Schön, our CFO. So just to start off with some highlights from the Q3 quarter. We have another quarter with increased earnings profitability and we also now have an increased EPS. and if you have followed us we have now 20 consecutive quarters with increased profits and this quarter the turnover increased six percent but that was mainly due to acquisition and we'll come back to them about the organic uh top line growth but we had an ebta increase of 10 and and that was mainly driven by the acquisitions contribution we had during the quarter And we continue also to improve the EBTA margins. So we're now at 9.6 this quarter compared with 9.3, the comparable quarter. And we also continue to improve our profitability. So our profitability measure has profit of working capital, and we now have an increase of 6% units. And this is measured rolling 12. So there's a kind of lag of the improvements we have made. So the rolling three figures is even higher than the rolling 12 figures. So all the activities we have been running for the last quarters is now showing results in the improvement in this ratio. And we also have, as earlier stated, an increase in earnings per share, rolling 12 to 7.55 compared with previous year 7.15. And we have achieved this despite that continuous sluggish market. We have said earlier that the best KPI on an aggregated level for the group is number of employees within the construction industrial sector in the Nordic. And the Q3 calendar figure for that show and the group decrease, if you kind of weighted the countries and the different segments, industry and construction, a decline of 3%. And if we dig into the figures, actually, the biggest decline is actually in Norway within the industry that had a decline of 6%. And the lowest decrease, actually all markets, all segments have a decrease, is the construction market in Finland that is decreasing with 1% this quarter. But then you should remember that they have had a very strong decrease earlier in the earlier quarters. So they are kind of flattening it out now, it seems. But still, it's a sluggish market. I said it in the previous quarterly report, and I say it again, the diamonds are formed under pressure, so we still have not the market with us on a group level. So we continue to lower the cost and to work with, you know, working capital decreases in oral kind of organic units. And we have some progress here. But also in terms of the gross margin, we are doing some activities. You don't see an improved gross margin this quarter, but there are some extraordinary items, and I will come back to that during the different division presentation, why we don't see that improvement in this quarter. But underlying, I would say, we still have a strong gross margin as such. We also had a very successful acquisition quarters. We made four acquisitions in the quarter, whereas three was made in December. And our target, yearly target in terms of EBITDA to acquire is 50 to 80 million. So we are now in that range. But that doesn't say we are not stopping acquisitions. And we will see if we manage acquisitions. So, in total, we made six acquisitions so far this fiscal year. And we presented the Maschinam and the Spraylet acquisition in the previous quarterly presentation. As I said earlier, we made four acquisitions the Q3 quarter. The biggest one is Leverpynta. It's part now of the core solution division. It has an annual revenue of 180 million SEK roughly. And as you can see on the EBTA, we only acquire companies with an EBTA margin above 15%. So this is kind of the level that Leverpynta has delivered historically. And we also only acquire companies with a profitable working capital about 45%. And this company has a profitable working capital well above that range. So Leverpynta has operation in Sweden and Finland. They are leading in producing high quality laminate boards used under high pressure and heating. And they are typically used in situations where you need really high quality products. And one example is within furniture within the professional segments, typically within hospitals and schools and those type of environments where they need high quality furnitures. Another acquisition that is adding up to the core solution is Ovesta, and they are building special purpose door. It's kind of sound oscillating door or fire safety doors, turnover of 35 million, a margin well above 15%, and also them have a profit of working capital above 45%. They are selling to typical constructions and installation companies. And it's in situation where you need those special purpose stores. Typically within also government buildings and those type of situation. And they are currently only present in Finland. But we are looking into the possibility to expand their business into other Nordic countries. One other acquisition we made was Kolinder, that's a Swedish company and that is now part of the safety solution division. Turnover 60 million and have an EBITDA on the range of 15% and also them having a profit over working capital will above 45%. We own several companies when we make signs, special purpose signs. And this is a company that is also have a very strong position in that niche market. And we now have companies in Sweden and Norway and Denmark in this niche. So this is kind of strengthen our position in the Nordic in this specific markets. And lastly, LabSense is a Finnish company, and that is now part of the industrial equipment division. 35 million with a very strong profit margin and also a very strong profitable working capital ratio. And they are the distributor of laboratory equipment used especially within the government sector. So they are kind of representing a lot of leading manufacturers within that laboratory equipment space. So you can see we acquire three companies in Finland and we think we have a very good experience with acquiring companies in Finland. And there are a lot of high quality companies and we also feel that the price level in Finland tend to be a little bit lower than in many other Scandinavian countries. So all in all, we acquired 385 million so far this year. And as you can see, all of them have a profit margin above 15%. So if you calculate backwards, you will see we are already in the range of 50 to 80 million profit acquired so far this year. I said it before, but we now have 20 consecutive quarters with increased EBTA, and that increased 10% this quarter. And we have a current now of 27% in terms of the EBTA development. The EBIT level increased 4% and the EBT level was flat compared with previous quarter. But there are some extraordinary items in the financial net that explain why the EBIT level didn't increase this quarter. So that is some special terms or special items there that affect the financial net in a negative way. And once again, we also continue to improve the EBITDA margin. So if we then look at the revenue development, we said that we had an increase of revenue with 6%. And on this slide, you can see the acquisition contribute with 11% and the organic growth with this quarter 5%. We previously talked about we're phasing out high volume, low margin product, but stated in the previous quarter, we are getting to end of that. So I think this organic kind of development in this quarter more reflects the underlying market. And it's a little bit higher than the 3% I indicated about the number of employees in the Nordic. But you can't see that KPI as a 100% reflection of our kind of underlying market. It's the best proxy we have. So we don't feel that we actually lose market shares in the markets, generally speaking. We actually win some of these. I will present some of them later on under the division presentations. So I think this more reflects the kind of underlying market situation as such. With that, I will leave the words to Peter to explain more about the financials in the index quarter.

Yeah. Good. And if we look at the gross margin, we see a slight decrease in the gross margin, but still underlying, we increase the share of revenue from own products. And the reason why the gross margin is slightly decreasing is that we have Some call it one-offs. SV is doing a lot of, they retake products from the new customers, which affects their gross margin a bit in this quarter. And also we have sold for Fastit, we have discontinued an operation in Asia and sold out some stock to zero margin. we anticipate the gross margin to stabilize and still be on that high level going forward, even though we won't see the gross margin increasing at the pace that we have had historically. And if we look at the group target overview,

Yeah, as you can see, we have a continuous improvement in the profit of working capital. We are now at 30%. The target is to reach the 45% latest fiscal year 26-27. That's two years plus from now. And as I said earlier, we have a continuous improvement in this ratio, both because we improved the profit, but also that we improved the working capital efficiency. So my expectation is that we should see a continued improvement in that going forward, still aiming for the 45%. If we look at the EBIT development, we are now at a rolling 12, 395. We have the target for 500. and we are moving in the right direction. We see opportunities reach the 500, but we had expected the market to pick up a little bit earlier and We need to have some help from the market to kind of get to the 500. But many indications shows that we will see a pickup here in the next quarter to come. So that's still in reach. And the EBITDA margin is now 8.3, and we aim for the 10%. And that is also something that we will see improve over time. Still aiming for the 10, even if that's also quite challenging.

Yeah, so if we look at the earnings per share, it continues to increase after a period earlier where we had a decrease in the earnings per share. And as Magnus said, the rolling 12 is 7.55 compared to 7.15 last year. So still an increase. And for the inventory level, we saw an increase in the inventory level. And it's mainly a seasonality effect that it's mainly SV that is now purchasing a lot of products for the spring orders that they will deliver in our Q4 and Q1. So they build up quite a lot of stock, which is normal. We had an organic inventory reduction from last year of 90 million SEK, so still we are decreasing the inventory level organic. And we will continue to do so. It is a slower pace, but still we anticipate that it will be decreased over time organically. We still don't have an ITO on the pre-COVID levels, so we will continue working with the lower inventory levels. you look at the cash flow from operating activities it's an all-time high um cash flow and it's um seasonality wise it's a strong quarter cash flow wise so it's it follows the normal seasonality even though we in this picture have a bit uh yeah covered uh related uh But still, this is a strong cash flow quarter. Next quarter is a bit weaker. And the main reason is, again, the spring orders from SV that is delivered next quarter, but quite long payment terms. So they get paid in the summer. So, yeah, the main reason is, of course, stronger profitability and lower working capital. That's that both parameters are going the right way. And the net debt has also increased, even though we did acquisitions of 263 million in the quarters, it only increased roughly a million. And that's, of course, due to the good cash flow. During the quarter, we also renegotiated our credit facility, and we also increased credit facility by 500 million SEC. So we now have 2.5 billion SEC in credit facilities. And it's a 3 plus 1 plus 1 agreement. So we have, even though the net debt EBITDA is picked up a bit, we're not too worried about that. So the acquisition target remains intact and we will continue to make acquisitions in the current pace.

So let's get into the different divisions then. Generally speaking, core solution division company on aggregate, they still face a slowing underlying market, but due to many successful acquisitions, we have a good profit increase in this division. As you can see on this slide, you have the rolling 12 figures on EBTA level as well as EBTA, so it's going upwards. So the revenue increased 16% in this division and the EBITDA increased 53% this division. So it was a very strong EBITDA development here in this quarter. And also here we have a strong underlying market increase. We're now at 7% compared with 7.3% last quarter. So, generally speaking, it's a very good development and we have now acquired Levi Pinta in October and Ovesta in December. So, we continue to have a good traction of acquiring high quality companies into this division that will also, over time, make sure that we have a good development of this division as such. We made some structural changes in this division as well. Fastit had an Asian operation, as Peter was saying. We have discontinued that operation during the quarter. It's part of our kind of effort to kind of not invest or having companies that doesn't have the possibility to reach the profit of working capital of 45%. uh and we didn't see that was the conditions for the facet asian operation so that's why we discontinued that operation during this quarter then i mentioned earlier that we we also had some customer successes and as we actually got three new major customer agreements during the quarter And the effect of that was also Peter mentioning, we have to rebuy the current suppliers stock on those resellers. And that has affected our gross margin since we buy back those products and the value of that is less. So we have a negative effect on the gross margin in those buyback activities. But that over time will not be there any longer and then we instead we will have an increased top line in SV with good margins. So over time this will have a positive effect on SV. So overall I would say a good development in this division. The safety technology, they perform on a similar level as kind of previous year. And they are also facing a slow margin. This is the division that has the highest dependency on the Nordic industrial and construction reseller. And this is partly then very affected of the development of those segments in the Nordics. This company acquired, as I mentioned, the Kolinder in December. So that will bring some positive development to the division. We also had a success here, Cresta Group, it's our company in this division that have safety equipment to work on high heights. And one type of business here is to sell to wind power manufacturers because they need that type of equipment when they deliver their products from the factory. to make sure if there are some problems in the tower, they can rescue people from that type of situation. And we have early communicated that Vestas is a customer here. And basically all Vestas windmills, you know, leaving the factories have Cresto products. And now they actually got the breakthrough at Siemens Ginesa that hasn't been a customer of Cresto previously. So we got quite a big order from Siemens this quarter in Cresto Group. And that is also building, you know, some opportunities to continue to grow that business going forward. But as you can see on the curves on the lower side here, this is a division that haven't had that positive development over time. We actually have had the increasing EBTA if you compare with two years back, as well as the EBTA margin. And my expectation, as communicated in the report, is that we at least should get back to the previous level here. in some times. But to get that, we need to have, you know, a stronger underlying market combined with additional acquisitions. So the EBITDA was flat here. It's 40 million. And the EBITDA margin was also on the same level as previous year, roughly at 9.1. But here we have an opportunity to get above the 10 over time. So, as I said before, my expectation as a first step is to deliver on a historic profit level and margins. And then lastly, the industrial equipment division. The profit continues here to expand and is mainly driven here also by acquired companies. This is a division mainly dependent on the Nordic industry in combination with the UK since we have some companies here in the division acting in the UK market. uh and the nordic industry customer demand is has been stable during division uh but still on on a lower level uh so the underlying profit in in this division is is not growing uh but the profit still has increased 11 percent to 63 million and the ebt modern is continued expanding and is now at 13.6 and and that's mainly due to acquisitions And we acquired additional one here as communicated earlier today, LabSense in December that also will contribute to the division going forward. Luna is the biggest unit in this division and we have made some cost reduction, major cost reduction in that company and some product phase out. We still have some things to do here, but the majority of those cost reduction and product phases is now finalized. And that has had a positive impact on Luna performance, but it has been outweighed by the slower underlying market as such. So all in all, the target we have to communicate is the 510.45 and how to reach that. As I said earlier, we need to get some help from the underlying market. We had expected that to pick up much earlier. I mean, this time last year, I expected it to pick up during the summertime. We are now in the last quarter here and we still don't see that recovery. When we look at the kind of the indicators as such, we get some indication that the expectations for the underlying market that we are acting in should increase during 2025 in the range of two to 5%. And that is necessary for us to get all the way to the 510.45. But we will continue to do what we always do to prioritize profit expansion over revenue growth. And we continue with our capital allocation through our focus model to make sure that we have suitable strategies and priorities company by company. It's not one size fits all. It's really dependent on where they are in our capital allocation model to make sure we have investment in growth. If you have a high profitable working capital and growth opportunities, and really to focus on profitability improvement if you are, you know, in the lower range of our profitable working capital expectations. We also had, as we said before, the toolbox, the bare man obeying toolbox is a way to support the companies in the development. And that's still, of course, in play. And we will continue to acquire highly profitable B2B companies with leading position in growing niche markets. Peter showed our debt situation and we have a strong balance sheet, so it's not the financial that puts the limit on our acquisition pace. I don't see any reason why we can't continue on acquiring in the range of 50 to 80 million, because the market is there and we have the balance sheet that enables this. So the expectation is that we should continue to deliver on the acquisition path we'd had during the last two years going forward as well. And we also have some specific routine. We talked about it earlier. It's really to continue to work on reducing the stock and to improve the ITO to get back to the pre-corona levels. Based on the kind of underlying market situation, we still have a tight cost control. We continue to do some efficiency measurements in some of the companies. But once again, the big kind of takes are taking already, but we're still to continue to make some adjustments along the way. And we will continue to kind of protect our gross margin development. I said it before, the underlying gross margin is in line with the previous quarter. We have some explanations why it's a little bit lower this quarter. But my expectation is that we should get back to the previous levels in the quarter to come here. But you shouldn't expect any significant gross margin improvement from the level we are today. And we also prepare especially companies in the growth zone to capitalize on the economic situation. As said earlier, that is expected to pick up during this fiscal year in the range of 2-5%. So overall, I hope and expect that we are getting into a better market situation now in the next coming quarters. I don't maybe expect it to be this quarter and neither the next quarter. So my current expectation is that we should see some pickup here after the summer. We don't see any signals when I talk to our customers, when I talk to my colleagues along the group or other industry experts that we should expect any kind of pickup here in the near term, actually. So we keep our fingers crossed here that we should get some help from the market here in mid 2025. With that said, we open up for questions.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Zeno Engdalen-Richudi from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead.

Good morning Magnus and Peter and thanks for taking our questions. I would like to start off with discussing some of these non-recurring items to get a better understanding of the underlying margins in the segments. If we start with the earn-out revaluation, can you talk a bit about how it was distributed or give an indication of that between the segments?

Yeah, we really don't communicate exactly how it is distributed, but it's a large portion of the re-evaluation is from construction-related acquisitions, you can say. So it's, yeah, that's a bit, yeah.

Yeah. And in FV, regarding the buybacks of the stock, can you give some color on the impact of that?

We can say that much. During the QFA quarter, it was a couple of millions that affected the result due to the buybacks.

And then lastly to the divestment of the Asian operations, how much that one impacted?

It was also a couple of millions. A few millions, yes.

Okay, this is very helpful. And just regarding on the same topic with the divestment, I think this is the first time you've mentioned looking at companies strategy or making some possible structural divestment or such since you changed your financial goals so to say if it was one and a half years ago or something like that can you are you seeing that you are closer to looking at other possible divestments or other structural solutions

Just to comment about what we have done historically. I mean, Faustus has one operation in Europe and one in Asia, and we have now kind of dismantled the Asian operation. Historically, we've done several kind of structural measurements. SV, for example, has closed the operation in some of the countries and so forth. So it's not kind of the first time we do this type of structural changes. It's been a handful of those during my time. But this is something we continuously look into and evaluate. So with that said, I don't say we will make any, but I don't say that we will not make any going forward. It's a continuous kind of evaluation.

Very clear. Thank you a lot. I'll get back in line.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Albin Nordmark from Nordea. Please go ahead.

Hi, Magnus and Peter. Albin from Nordea here. Just one or two questions from my side. The organic decline in staff of 21 people, was this mainly due to the discontinued operations in Asia or was it more across the group?

It was more across the group.

All right, thanks. And then obviously, you don't see a pickup before the summer, at least in the market. But can you comment? You were down 3% organically last quarter, now 5%. So is the market quite stable here, or is it getting worse? And also, if you can comment on the current pricing in the market for your companies. Thanks.

Yeah, start with the pricing. We are continuously pushing our companies to make price adjustments to make sure we have this cross-margin protection that I talked about earlier. So many of our companies have announced price increases during this year already. But typically they are below 5%. uh i mean during the corona time this was in some companies double digit figures in terms of price adjustment but but it's it's not on that level currently um talking about the organic development i mean generally speaking we don't see any um Big difference from the previous quarter. We mentioned that some of the kind of organic decrease was due to fewer working days in this quarter. It represents 2%. So that I think is explaining why this figure was a little bit higher compared with previous quarter. Many of our companies felt in, I think it was 17 or 18 of December, the orders just stopped coming. So we had some people indicating that many of our customers, especially the industry and construction resellers in the Nordic was preparing for a year end and was optimizing their stock levels. I think that was part of the explanation as well, why the last half of December was very, very slow.

All right. And have you seen any pick up from the preparing of working capital through the year? And have you seen any pick up from that in the beginning of January?

You mean the inventory level? Yeah. No, it's normally before year-end. So I don't really have the January figures yet, but I don't expect it to increase.

All right. Thanks a lot. That's all from me.

The next question comes from Marcus Almarud from Carnegie. Please go ahead.

We can't hear you, Marcus.

Marcus Almarud from Carnegie, your line is now unmuted. Please go ahead.

Hi, can you hear me now? Yes. Yes. Hi. Hi. Wanted to maybe start with an answer to the question, one of the previous questions about orders just all of a sudden stop coming at the end of December, mid-end of December. How was that starting in January? Has it bounced back or is that kind of the same level as you exited the year?

Yeah, we have seen, it's very hard to say what's, you know, what's sustainable or not, but we've seen a small pickup.

A small pickup, okay, okay. And then just to, if I got you right and I heard, there are no actual signs from subsidiaries about the market picking up, but there's more of indications the same indications as I read about the market coming back towards like end of the summer or in H2. That's correct, right? And follow up on that. Is there any difference between construction and industrial manufacturing?

Just to make some clarification, we are close to 35 companies in the group. Of course, not all companies are facing this type of tough market conditions, some companies have a very good growth. But we own this Luna, Skydda and also SV and Guide and those companies are very dependent on the Nordic industrial and construction markets. So that, of course, have an effect on the group level as such. Sorry, what was your questions?

Now, if there's any difference in terms of what you hear from your subsidiaries on the industrial construction.

Yeah, I think there are clearer indication that the construction market starts to pick up. If we look, for example, SV is very dependent on the root market. And there are some clear indication that that is picking up. So, if we look at those two to five percent organic growth that is kind of expected for 2025, a larger portion is of that increase from the construction sector than from the industry sector, even if the industry sector as well indicates some growth.

Okay, that's perfect. And then also follow up on the one-offs. Is it possible to quantify the total impact and earnings from these one-offs?

It's a few million, so it's not that much. When it comes to, if we talk SV and Fastit, so it's not a huge impact on the EBIT level. Margin-wise, it's a bit more, but it's not significant, I think. That's why we haven't really mentioned the number.

Okay. And then finally, maybe on the M&A market, the M&A climate, can you say anything about, has there been any changes whatsoever?

uh what's it like in sweden you mentioned finland is a bit cheaper what's it like in the uk i would say generally speaking my experience is that the the price level both in the uk and finland has been on a lower level compared with the rest of Scandinavia from many quarters. With that said, I mean, there are still opportunities to buy, you know, very nice, highly profitable companies in Scandinavia within the valuation range we have set. So you shouldn't see that we acquired three companies in Finland and one in Sweden as a pattern that could continue going forward. It's more kind of an expression for that those specific deals was materialized during this quarter.

And as you can see now, there's been no changes. If you look at the second half of last year, maybe going into 2025, the M&A environment per se has been kind of unchanged in this time.

I said it before, when the economy is very strong and the interest rates are a little bit lower, there are typically more companies for sale, but there are also more buyers in the market. This situation currently, when the market is a little bit slower and the interest rate is a little bit higher, there are much fewer companies for sale in the market. But at the same time, there are much fewer buyers. So I think our kind of possibility to acquire in the range of the 50-80 isn't different now compared to when the economy is very strong. I think the dynamics is a little bit different.

Okay, perfect. Thank you very much.

Carl Johan Bonnevier. Hello, I'm Peter.

I'm not sure if I was introduced. But now you're on the air.

Yeah, hello. It was on delay that opening up the line for me. Good morning, Peter and Magnus. A lot of good answers already. Just a couple of smaller ones from me. Looking at the phase out that you're still highlighting in Luna and Shiba, is that fading away or are you still seeing good opportunities in enhancing those pipelines?

No, I mean, the majority of that work is done. Still, there are some opportunities still left to be materialized, but not in the magnitude that you will see an effect on, for example, the gross margin or the top line. Once again, the development of the top line on the group level is more reflecting the underlying market than we're doing phase out currently. And that's my expectation going forward as well.

Very good to see the strengths of your own cash flow generation and having that in mind, What kind of comfort zone could you see yourself having for the moment when you're looking at doing acquisitions and maybe taking on more gearing on the balance sheets?

I think we said it before, we're feeling comfortable going up to a net debt EBITDA of three. So I think in the short term, we're quite comfortable taking on more debt.

Personally, I don't see the balance sheet to be any kind of restrainer from us to acquire the companies that we want to acquire. It's more making sure that we acquire high quality companies at the right financial conditions.

Yeah, and I guess the kind of quality companies you're looking to acquire probably comes in with the with the good for your own cash regeneration from start as well. Yes, yes, adding to the picture.

Absolutely.

Excellent. Thank you very much. And all the best.

Thank you. Thank you.

The next question comes from Emmanuel Johnson from Danske Bank. Please go ahead.

Good morning, Magnus and Peter, and thank you for taking my questions. Good morning. You were talking a little bit about the resellers. I wonder, is it possible to quantify the exposure to resellers in amounts of percentage of group sales for the group as a whole and maybe within the safety segment as well?

If, as I said before, if we look at the biggest companies in the group, iClunen, Skydda, Luna, SV, Guide, for example, their main kind of channel out in the market is through the Nordic resellers within the construction and industrial segments. So if you add up the turnover of those companies, you get above 50%. So, and especially in the safety technology divisions, most of the companies there, including and partly CIS group is also dependent on the Nordic resellers as such. So it's quite high exposure.

Yeah, I understand. Thank you for that. And going forward, would you say that you have like a strategy to move away from these kind of resellers within the safety technology? Is that possible looking into new acquisitions?

For example, Ateco that we acquired in that group and Kolinder is actually mainly selling direct to end customers. So we have in our acquisition strategy an aim to acquire companies and that you can see also that we have been doing that isn't dependent on the Nordic industrial and construction resellers. So there is a strategy to kind of add on new companies that doesn't have that dependency.

And so far, how has the performance been from these kind of companies, which are not aiming directly towards the resellers, if you compare the development here in the short term?

It's a mix, I would say. Some companies actually have a very good development. We mentioned in the report, for example, Levi Pynta that is newly acquired. They have a strong performance. Ateco as well has a very strong performance since they joined the group. So we have several companies with, you know, improving the profits despite the tough markets. And then we have some companies that also is not dependent on the Nordic resellers that is also facing tough markets. especially companies with investment products, for example. Some companies are selling machines, and those companies, I would say, have even tougher markets than the companies selling to the Nordic resellers. So I would say it's a mixed picture. But overall, I would say... Okay, perfect.

Totally understand.

No, I would say overall, if you aggregate our companies not dependent on the Nordic reseller, they are performing a little bit better than, you know, top line wise than the cluster dependent on the Nordic resellers.

Perfect, thank you Magnus. Just assuming that the market will eventually pick up by the end of the upcoming summer, what do you estimate the EBIT distribution will be between the three segments when you will potentially reach the 500 million second EBIT, is that possible? I mean, given that you obviously also have an M&A pipeline out there, but what do you think the splits will be between the three segments?

That's very difficult to say, I would say, and maybe another question I would like to answer. But generally speaking, as you said, it depends on what companies will the different divisions acquire along the way. It's also this pickup. I expect that to be a little bit different within the different type of segment as well. So it's very difficult to make that type of estimation. I guess you can make a good guess. I understand.

Yeah, I had to try at least.

Yeah.

When I indicate this...

When I indicated this underlying market development of plus 2-5% as the indicators are indicating, I applied that on a group level. And then, of course, some will face a little bit higher and some will maybe face a little bit lower organic underlying. But my expectation on the group level is plus 2-5%.

Yeah, okay, perfect.

And maybe a last question from Isaac. Can you maybe give us some comment on this? You're mentioning that you are seeing or maybe expecting the construction market to pick up or has a clear indication of that it will eventually start to pick up. Could you maybe give us a view on the Swedish construction markets? and what you see there and what's the expectation for 2025 as well, especially on the Swedish market?

Yeah, if you talk about that, we follow an index called the Building Material Index. That is kind of an index indicating, you know, the value of building material going forward and the development. And that indication says plus 6% in Sweden for 2025 compared with 2024. uh then of course we're different between different product categories but that's still an indication if we look at the route market in sweden specifically within business premises the the figure is plus two percent and within the the housing segment is plus six percent in sweden so um Generally speaking, it's an increase across the building and the construction segment in general, but it's different between the different sub-segments.

Yeah, I understand. Perfect. Thank you, Magnus and Peter. That was all my questions for now. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you.

There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments.

So there is no no written questions, at least to my knowledge, Peter. No. So with that said, thank you very much for listening and looking forward to having you listen to the next quarterly call.