Bravida Holding AB (publ)

Hi everyone and welcome to this presentation of Bravida's first quarterly report in 2024. My name is Mattias Johansson, CEO and Group President for Bravida and as usual my colleague Åsa Neving is here as well. CFO and we will take you through this presentation. So let's start. Thank you very much for joining. I start with this slide. Bravida brings buildings to life throughout the Nordic region. Bravida is the Nordic region's leading supplier of holistic climate smart solution for buildings and facilities. Our long-term goal is to be climate neutral throughout our value chain by 2045 so that our customers can be as well. We have 14,000 employees in around 365 different branches in the Nordic countries, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland. Our initiatives within building automation and energy management enable a continued competitive offering for our customers. So that is in brief Bravida. And Bravida as an investment case. First, stable and profitable growth with strong cash flows. We are leader in our industry in the Nordic region. We are well positioned for the future, meaning that we are one of the providers in the industry who will take care of energy efficiency in buildings, which is very important for all our customers. But we also contribute to increased automation and energy efficiency in the society as such. Stable sales with good risk diversification and good opportunities for growth through acquisitions is also part of the investment story of Bravida. So going into this quarter and the highlights for the first quarter. Net sales is down with 2%. As expected, the organic growth is down, minus 6% in the quarter, and we are growing 4% throughout our acquisitions. Order intake very strong, increased with 16%, and it increases all over the group. Order backlog, more than 800 million up compared to the last quarter, which gives us a strong position, a good position for the quarters going forward. Strong cash flow, 90% cash conversion. Cash flow is 399 million in the quarter compared to 60, mainly driven by improvement of networking capital. Cash conversion, as I said, 90%, and that is the highest number since Q1 2022. The margin is down from 5 to 4 as expected and as guided. Low margin in Denmark. We have improved margin in Norway. We are struggling a bit in the south part of Sweden as well. Important to mention is that Norway are improving the margin at the same time as they are integrating the acquisition of Tunestvet. The acquisition of Tunestvet is going due to our plan, which is positive. Very happy to say also that our KPIs regarding sustainability, all of them is improving and going in the right direction and very happy to see that the frequency of lost time because of injuries is down 25% and we are improving in all the countries. The bridge regarding the net sales, we started last year at 7,429,000,000. The organic growth takes it down with 435,000,000. We have M&A who is contributing with 370,000,000 and then we have some currency effects around 36,000,000 and that is how we end up at 7,275,000,000. quite positive about that number. So as you all know, we have a quite difficult market out there, but we are very sustainable and we have been able to actually change or sell another type of project even if some of the part of the market is down because of higher interest rates we have been able to offset those low demand with some other segments which is really positive. We also see in the quarter that the service mix the service part is improving a bit as well. Regarding the EBITDA, margin 4% instead of 5%. As I said just a few minutes ago, a number of measures are taken to improve profitability, such as integrating the growth segments division into our ordinary business. We have taken a cost of one-off of 9 million in the quarter. That is, of course, impacting our numbers. But we also have reduced staffing centrally as well as locally. EBITDA margin is improved in Norway despite the integration of Tunesträtt Group and decreased in other countries due mainly to the tough markets in Finland, south part of Sweden, but also the turnaround in Denmark as we mentioned as the last bullets. Last week, our new head of Denmark, Christian, also started, which is, of course, very positive. Really looking forward to start to work together with him. And I know he's very welcomed in the management group as well. Otherwise, the margin at 4% is very much in line with what we expected due to the fact that we are making a turnaround in Denmark and facing some tougher markets in the south part of Sweden and Finland. The order intake and the backlog together with the cash flow is probably the most positive numbers in the report. As you can see on this slide, the order intake is up 16% year on year and we have an increased order intake in all our countries. We see a growing order backlog in the quarter with 835 million, mainly because of two larger contracts in the central middle part of Sweden, which is two data center orders. And I think it's important to understand and remind you that the order backlog is only regarding installation. The service business is not part of the order backlog. So a good order position for the coming quarters, definitely. Sustainability, as I started the meeting with saying that we have a very positive trend in all the KPIs regarding sustainability, which is strength from our company, but also something that I'm really happy to be able to communicate. You can see that the LTIFR on group level is down 25% in the quarter. We have a group target at 5.5 and we are very close to that target, 5.6 compared to 7.5 last quarter. But we are very close to the target at 5.5. We have improved numbers in all countries and both Norway and Sweden are below the target at 5.5. Then when it comes to our CO2 emissions, we have a target that we should lower our CO2 emissions with 30% until 2025 compared to the position we were at in 2020. And as you can see, we have on the last 12 months improved or lowered the emissions with 10%. But compared to the target, 30% compared to 2020, we actually have lowered the emissions with 27%. And that is due to the fact that we have been changing out a lot of our cars in the car fleet. 28% of all our cars today are 100% electrical driven. And that is an investment we have done and that is something we will be able to contribute from going forward. Acquisitions, we have a strong balance sheet, as you know, 0.9 in that level, which gives us the opportunity to continue to pay dividend and invest in Bravida through acquisitions. In 2024, we have so far done five acquisitions, adding 285 million annually. Integration of Tunestvet in Norway progressing according to plan. We are not for the moment focusing on any acquisitions in Denmark. We are focusing on the turnaround. So let's do that first, then we focus on acquisitions. We see a strong pipeline of potential candidates to continue our strategy of selective M&A growth. Leverage, as I said, remains low enabling continued value creative acquisitions. Summarizing, five acquisitions so far in 2024, adding close to 300 million in annual sales. Now I hand over to Åsa, who will take you through the different countries.

Please, Åsa. Thank you, Mattias. So as always, let's start with Sweden, where we had a top line of 3.5 billion. We have had tough comparative figures this quarter, and this goes for all countries. So the growth in sales was negative 4%, and the organic growth was minus 7%. We had a growth from acquisitions of plus 3% during the quarter. EBITDA 172 compared to 198, and the EBITDA margin declined to 5.0%. compared to 5.5. And this is explained by a weaker market in the southern part of Sweden, which is also affecting the turnover, of course. But the rest of the country was stable, so it's the southern part that was a bit weaker. And we also had a one-off effect that Mattias talked about when we integrated growth segment of 9 million, and this is affecting the Swedish result. And adjusted for that, it would have been 5.2%. Order intake plus 4% coming from installation and the order backlog 8% year on year. We got two large orders in the order intake this quarter. One was a data center and the other was in a wastewater treatment plant. And then Norway. Norway had a top line of 1.6 billion, that is a growth of 2%, and the growth is coming from acquisition, 10%. Organic growth, minus 4%, and another minus 4% from FX. As Mattias said, the Tunestet group, the large acquisition that we did last year, is included now in our figures and is expected to add roughly 600 million in yearly sales. And we expect that the EBITDA will be around zero for the year. The share of service sales has increased in the quarter and is accounted for 53% compared to 50% of total sales last year. And very happy that the EBITDA margin improved to 4.9%. That is an EBITDA of 79%. And if we would exclude the Tunis debt group, it would have been 5.2%. Strong order intake plus 19%. And an order backlog year-on-year on minus 16%. Moving on to Denmark, where the top line was 1.6 billion and the sales growth is minus 3%. And this is the installation business that is going down. The organic growth was 4%. The growth from acquisition was plus 1%. Shares of service sales has also increased in Denmark and is accounted for 44% of total sales compared to 41% last year. The EBITDA margin decreased to 1% compared to 4%, and this is, as Mattias said, and as we have communicated earlier, due to the challenges that we have in Denmark right now with write-downs and also with production in low-margin projects due to the previous write-downs that we have done. Very strong order intake, plus 49%, and the order backlog is 40%. This is mainly coming from installation, the order intake, and we have, as you may know, the pharma industry is going very strong in Denmark, and we have roughly 450 million SEC of pharma orders in this order intake. As we have said, we have done a thorough review in Denmark and are taking significant measures to get Denmark back on track again. And one is, as Mattias said, now that we have a new CEO ahead of Denmark in place from 1st of May, which we are very happy about. And yeah, even though we have had a challenging quarter, we believe that we will be back on normal margins again in the fourth quarter in Denmark. And then last but not least, Finland, where the net sales was 0.6 billion. That is a growth in sales of 3%. Organic growth minus 7%. And there is a soft market in Finland. The growth requisition is plus 10%. Also, EBITDA margin declined to 1.3% compared to 3.7% last year. And this is explained by a lower margin in the installation business and lower volume and also margin in the service business. Order intake increased also in Finland with plus 8% and the order backlog was plus 12% year on year. And then if we look at the net debt and cash flow and our financing position, If you look at the chart in the middle, you can see that we have improved the cash flow, the operating cash flow to 399 this quarter compared to 60 last year. And this is mainly due to the improvement in working capital. And also, if you look at the L2M figure, cash flow has been improved to 1.8. billion and this has then also affected the the cash conversion that is improved to 90 percent it was 70 percent last year and as matthias said this is the the highest levels in two years on the left hand side you see the net debt and the net debt remains low on 2.1 billion and that leads to a net debt ratio of 0.9 times EBITDA. As we have said before, we still have three large orders or three large unpaid receivables, I should say. that we expect that they will be resolved during the next year. And this is two projects in Denmark and one project in Norway. Then if you look at our financing, that consists of a commercial paper program of 1.5 billion SEK and 50 million euros. And also we have a three-year loan of 500 million SEK and that one is maturing in 2025 in August. Well, Mattias, by that I will hand it over back to you.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Åsa. And a short view on the market. We still see a very stable amount for the service activities. There are some challenges in installation continuing, of course, and there are definitely variation between geographies. There are though favorable market conditions in segments like infrastructure, industry, defense facilities and civil engineering which gives us quite significant opportunities and I also think that is what you can see in the strong order backlog as well. We will maintain our project selective strategy with continued focus on cost control across all projects and margin over volume. So take a look at the financial targets. We have a margin target above 7% EBITDA. We have a cash conversion target over 100%. The net debt target at below 2.5 is something we, as Åsa said, have delivered upon. We have a sales growth that this quarter is below the target. The target is above 5%, a combination of organic growth and acquired growth. In many, many quarters now, we have been above that target as well, well above as well. And we have a target of paying out more than 50% of the net profit in dividend. And later today we will have an annual meeting where we hopefully will decide upon the dividend as well. To summarize the quarter, sales growth, we have a growth from acquisitions, but have a negative organic growth in total. Not a surprise, what expected slightly down with minus 2%. The EBITDA margin is down from 5% to 4% also as expected due to the fact that we are making a turnaround in Denmark and are facing a tougher market in Finland and Sweden. But improved margin in Norway and very stable margin in the rest of Sweden is positive of course. I'm very happy to see the good performance in Norway. I think that Norway will come back to the old great margins in the future as well. And we now see the first positive signs of that. We are doing significant measures in Denmark. And as we have said a couple of times, we are welcoming Christian Alsø as the new CEO and head of Denmark. Really looking forward to work together with him and the management team in Denmark that I have learned to know for four or five months now. And I can tell you that they are very skilled, slightly a bit bad of confidence, but we have improved a lot in our way of negotiating contracts, terms in contracts, pricing, etc. So I'm really looking forward to see what Denmark can do in a couple of quarters from now. In total, strong order intake and a strong order backlog, improved cash flow and cash conversion and the highest level since the beginning of 2022. And most importantly, maybe that we are improving the LTIFR for all our employees. We are a much safer employer today than we were before. So improving a lot in that area, which is very important. Good to see. And CO2 emissions is down significantly as well. So we are delivering very well on the sustainability KPIs, which I'm very happy to be able to communicate. And now we have a stable order backlog and we will start delivering on the margin as well going forward. So thank you for that. And I think we can open up for some questions.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key 6 on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Carl Norwin from SEB. Please go ahead.

Yes, hello, Mattias, and also a couple of questions from my side. If we start off with the strong order backlog and the order intake here in the quarter, I'm just wondering if it's possible to say anything about the current state of the order books, so to say, in terms of the margins in the backlog. If it's possible to comment anything on that, it would be really helpful. Thank you.

No, we normally don't disclose those numbers, but what I have seen in Denmark, for example, where I've been very close and also the projects we have won in Sweden, we are not going after volumes. We are going after margin. And overall, I can say that we have slightly better margins, definitely better contracts than before. So I think it's on the positive side compared to what we have had in order backlog before those contracts were signed.

Okay so you would say the large contracts like the data centers etc are at the premium margin compared to your overall margin?

Yes.

That's good and then I have a question on here in Q1 did you have any like extra costs related to the investigations of the overbuilding in Malmö or will that come in Q2 or how will that impact you?

I think the answer is yes, but it's not in the Q1. It will come in Q2, and I don't think we have those numbers today.

No, we don't. It will come later.

And just to say that's cost related to the work we have done, no other types of cost. So I think it's still an isolated problem, so you don't understand it in the wrong way.

It's mostly internal resources up until now and some external that we will communicate next quarter.

Another question on the project right now in Denmark in the quarter. I'm not sure if you will quantify it, but can you say anything about how it impacted the margin in the quarter and if you see any need for more right now in Q2 and going forward?

But I think what we have said earlier is still valid. We have said that we will have poor profitability in Denmark, the Q1 and Q2, but black numbers. I think that's still the same. And I think we still guide for a slightly weaker Q3, but a normal Q4 margin-wise.

Yes, that's good. And then I just have a question on the meantime. You have a very strong balance sheet. I mean, are you open for launching a buyback program or do you seek to use the balance sheet more for accelerating the M&A side? Or how do you view the balance there? It's been impacted quite a lot recently.

First of all, we are very happy to confirm or agree. We agree to you that we have a very strong balance sheet and we will use that to develop Bravida as a company. And today we have an annual meeting coming up and we will see what kind of decision that will bring or what possibility we will get. But then in the end, it's of course a question for the board. But we see That's a positive thing that we can use the balance sheet to continue to improve and build a stronger Bravida.

Yeah, that's great. And then it's the last question on the cash flow, which was also good during the quarter. I was wondering, I think we should expect a continued good cash flow going forward. Was that the message to confirm?

We see that we have a positive trend going forward, yes.

That's good. That's all from me. Thank you. Thank you, Carl. Thanks.

The next question comes from Carl Ragnestam from Nordea. Please go ahead.

Hello, it's Carl here from Nordea. So firstly, I mean, the southern Swedish market is still seemingly a bit challenging, I guess, also pricing-wise. I mean, are you considering downsizing that operation similar to what you did in the capital region of Stockholm some time ago? Or what is the plan? Or is it just to endure a period of tougher pricing and then hopefully it will come back?

But I think it's totally different challenges if you compare to the region Stockholm a couple of years ago. I think now Stockholm a couple of years ago was not because of a poor market demand. It was more about poor execution, poor performance from our side. I think in division south or south part of Sweden it's more about the demand driven challenge. I think that we will have, we are downsizing already locally depending on the local demand how that is changing and that is part of our model. But I think we will need to do some more measures going forward because it seems like the demand in the south part is a bit trickier than in the rest of the organization so but it's not the same type of challenge as we had in stockholm a couple of years ago we have many many well-performing units in south part but i think the main problem is that the construction companies has very small order backlogs or low order backlogs which give them a position where they have to fight about orders then they try to push the problem down to subcontractors such as bravida etc so i think we need to do measures but not in the same way as we did in stockholm a couple of years ago and and have you so far seen any signs of southern sweden starting to perform well

When I look at it, I see at least some bankruptcies, but it's maybe not enough to turn the market to a better pricing situation.

I think it's too early to see. Let's see what happens with interest, if that can push the demand in the right direction. But it's still a tricky environment in the south part of Sweden. So let's see when that will improve. But I think it's quite stable for the moment on low levels, which is, of course, a challenge for us.

Okay, fair enough. And the order take has been solid for quite a while here, much driven, of course, by large projects. I mean, in some of the instances, they are delivered, I mean, in one year, two years, or in various portions. So would you expect organic growth to be under pressure in the short term? We're talking one, two, maybe three quarters. And then we enter a period of deliveries on the large projects or How should we look at the delivery?

I think it's very hard to estimate, but earlier we have said that the organic growth will be a tricky part in 2024 and I think we will stick to that. Yes.

And have you seen it getting a bit worse than you thought a quarter ago or in what direction?

I think we have been coping with this very well before, so I think I'm more surprised about how well we have been able to handle the high interest, lower demand. It's more that than I think it's tougher now, actually. We have been able to grow our business for many, many quarters. I think this is the first quarter in many, many years that we have a declining volume. And I think due to the circumstances we are facing, I think that's good. On the other hand, that will be a fact in our business model as well at some time. And now it's happened. So I think the 24 will be... volume wise a tough year hopefully we can work a lot with the margin if you do the calculation for the turnaround Denmark etc.

Okay perfect and also coming back a bit on Denmark here so if you exclude the large sort of what you call the problem or dispute contracts would you say that the margins are underlying if you look at this or bigger based smaller contracts is roughly five percent which is I guess it's a It's a normal quarter for Denmark in the Q1. It's also the sort of smaller bulk of the contract, also at the lower margin level.

No, but I think we have said earlier, Carl, that we have three regions where we're having issues, are struggling a bit in Denmark. And the other regions are well-performing regions, and that is still the same. So we have... partly a healthy business, and then we have another part of the Danish organization that has been underperforming due to too high growth, too bad contract terms, low prices, etc. And that is something we have started to fix. So by saying that, I also can say that the new orders we have won in those regions are on a different level, which gives us the opportunity to create profitability in those regions as well. That in combination with improvement in an education regarding execution, how to run projects, etc. is all together bringing up the margin in Denmark. So we have one part of the Danish division that are really well performing and then we have some areas we need to fix and that is what we are doing now.

But I guess when you say that the margin is good on your projects in Denmark, I guess I mean, a year ago, three years ago, when I guess the branch manager ever came to you and said, hey, we have good projects. I mean, the margin will, I guess, initially always look good in your projects because you've done the math on it, but then stuff happens, right? So what makes you more confident? Is it that you have a margin of safety in the new orders, meaning that the of gross margin is so good that it's inevitable that the margin would be good or how could you have conviction compared to what you I guess if I asked you a year ago or two years ago you'll probably say that margin was good in Denmark during that period as well.

Maybe I'm not sure I have done that but I have been part of the Danish organizations in December since December and we have changed the rules for applying tenders what they can do and what they allow to do for example we we have to be above a certain EBITDA margin in the calculation and on top of that we have to have a certain number of risk in percentage as well and that is a new thing that the combination with more focus in the contract signing on the payment terms other terms as well that is why I think we have better margin in the order backlog now because I've been part of it we have changed the way of working Then in combination with that, we are also launching trainings, educations for the project managers, branch manager, etc. who are supposed to run those projects. So we are doing different measures to sign better deals and be able to execute on those when we have them in production.

That sounds very good that you have margin of safety. And the final one from my side, if I may. You made some organization changes to the growth organization. Could you explain a little bit the rationale behind it? Because it was not that long ago you launched it, right?

No, but we have had an organization that has been starting up the building automation, energy management, and technical facility management. And we saw that this started to be more of an ordinary business. We saw scale advantages of actually taking these free business segments out in the ordinary organization, which meant that we didn't need the on top overhead for that division. So that is a way to continue to develop those business segments in a more cost efficient way. So for example, building automation is around one billion in sales today in Bravida. That is not a startup anymore. That's part of our daily business. So that's part of our ordinary divisions. and the other two we have learned also that they are part of the local offer so that they had to be they were actually in a better place being part of the local regions working together with the local branches in another way so that is a way of saving cost and continue to do what we actually thought is a good idea to continue doing so it's not that it's not performing as you want it's more that you want it yeah more slim i guess exactly

Okay, very good. Thank you so much. Thank you, Carl.

The next question comes from Johan Lankvist Sundin from Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, and thank you for taking my questions. There's already been asked quite a few good questions on both Denmark and the order book, so I think I'll skip those. But one detail I want to have some clarification on, if you're looking at the distribution on EBITDA in between the various segments, I note that the growth and elimination is up quite significantly year-over-year. What is the explanation behind that uptick?

Hi Johan, I hand over to Åsa.

I think you should see that as more of this is where we allocate some internal costs also between this group function and the divisions. So in this case it's internal allocations and then it turned out that we allocated out a bit more costs, you can say.

So no kind of earn out rebellion?

No, no, it's no, no, it's no, like one officer or anything like that.

Okay, perfect. I think you if we just take one, we've been into the Danish situation for some time now. But just to clarify for q4, for see margins, take taking the step up to what you are are guiding for. Is it just that the contracts you're currently working on are ended and the new kind of order book is activated or is there anything other that is giving you good confidence on Q4?

I think first of all the Danish organization is in general very good. It's about using them in the right type of businesses, working with the right type of customers, give them confidence of saying no thank you to bad contracts, bad terms, bad project services etc. And then in our business model, when you have finalized poor projects with poor margin, then they are out of the books. So it's quite quickly that you can actually get rid of the problem if you start at the same time as you produce on the low margin projects. If you at the same time can't focus on winning new contracts with higher margin, use your resources where you actually can get the most benefit out of them. then then you turn around a business like this quite quick and just tell telling the danish organization that you don't have to win volume that is not profitable i think that was a release for them to hear when i said you should know go after projects that is not bringing any profitability home to your own p l that is not what we are focusing at and it's allowed i will never i be angry at you if you are lowering your volume and if you at the same time is making better margins etc. That is our focus. Our job is to bring home money for our owners, not make sure that we have enough of projects to work with. Focus on margin instead of volume, make sure you have the resources in place, make sure they have the right competencies in those resources to be able to deliver those projects before you win the projects. Before they have focused too much on winning projects and then try to find resources who should actually deliver those to the customers. I think that's the wrong way to think. Focus on the margin, focus on what you're good at, make sure you're working with the right customers. Just telling them that and they feel confident that it's okay to not win projects that is not profitable. I think that is a big step of improving the Danish organization. So we have done a lot of improvement. As I said to Carl at Nordea recently, That in combination with focusing on training and educating our project managers etc. who should deliver their projects is a good thing to do. Then we can't forget the service business in Denmark which is really important as well. a profitable business that is too small part of the Danish organization today but if we can continue to grow the profitable service business at the same time as we solve the installation issues then we will have a division that will be performing in line with the rest of the countries I'm sure.

And with regards to incentives have you changed incentives or It seems like the Danish organizations, given their strong growth focus, have been less incentivized compared to the Swedish organization, for example. Has there been any changes there?

They have been incentivized in the same way, and that has been margin. So I think it has been more of a culture of chasing volume instead of margin because they have been incentivized to margins. That's a strange thing. So the margin focus has changed in Denmark and is on top of the agenda, I can promise you.

Excellent. Thanks a lot. I'll get back in line.

Thanks, Johan.

As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Karl-Johan Bonnevier from DNB Markets. Please go ahead.

Yes, good afternoon, Mattias and Åsa. I need to pick your brain a little more on the order intake and just to get your feel or how surprised you are that it's so strong still, given that you're talking about, say, the competitive and price-sensitive environment out there, and then adding to it that you are not going for anything like volume. You are going for profit margin. And even if I adjust for these big contracts that you have singled out, it still seems to be a very, very good SME kind of underlying order impact. How do you get it together?

No, but I think that is what has surprised me and I think more people in this industry the last year because we have been waiting for the downturn in the market because of lower activity in the resi market, fewer offices that are being built, etc. But what we actually didn't expect was the the drivers like electrification the the transformation in the society data centers infrastructure military facilities the security part of our industry there are so many other segments that are growing that we have been offsetting the poor demand in resi commercial buildings etc and i think That is, of course, very positive, but I'm a bit surprised. I think that is why we can, at the same time as we say that the order backlog and the market situation are a bit poor in Finland and south part of Sweden, that we are able to present solid order intake, improved order backlog. I think that is the reason we are in a very good spot currently. because of the transformation of the society and that these people like ours who are supposed to deliver the services that will make sure that we are using electrical vehicles that we are using less energies that we are using in another type of energy etc etc so i think that is reason call you on excellent excellent that's what i want to hear so if you look at q1

Did you see a huge kind of workday impact in that organic growth number? Is that something we should look through in your case?

There is some eastern effect, but I don't know how... Yeah, but that is if you look at March. If you look at the quarter, it's very little. It's like one day or so. It will be... The effect of days is coming in April. So...

In a positive way then.

In a positive way, yes. There are more days in April now than it was last year. But for the Q1, no, not that much.

Excellent. And just one final one for me as well. If we go back six months, obviously, Mattias, you talked a lot about payment patterns in the market. How has that developed since? You obviously have these Danish contracts are a special situation, but back then you alluded to that it might be more of a whole market problem or something like that.

I also said that I think it has been for a while very easy to get good payment plans and then we were surprised about not getting those because the other side were improving or changing much quicker than we did. poor cash flow because we weren't really on our toes then we have changed our focus again back to the normals I think that is the reason why we are presenting a strong cash flow now because in all or not all maybe but in most of the new contracts we are signing we have a very high focus on the payment plans again which we normally always had before but then it was a period where we had very easy to get the money and then suddenly happens and now we are back in in the normal way of handling it again. So I think that explains the cash flow.

It's also seen obviously in your much better working capital management and contract balance management. So it seems to be, would you say we're back to normal kind of situation or do you see a lot of bad debt risks out there?

I think it's now nothing changed in that perspective. No, it's not. It's not normal yet. I would not say that. But we haven't seen any changes since the last quarter.

But I think that's a good question because I think it's very important for us to be aware of the risk. So we are on our toes, try to identify those risk customers in an early phases and try to get the money into our bank account. And I think that is the main reason why we want to improve our payment plans. Because the earlier you get the money, the better your position is in regarding negotiations, but also that you are risking less if something happens on the customer side.

Thank you very much and all the best out there.

Thank you so much. I heard no more questions. Is that correct? Yeah. Then I just want to say thank you for listening in to this report. And we are really looking forward to continue our work with Åsa and the rest of the management team and make sure that we continue the great cash flow and make sure that we do the best out of the really good order backlog position. So thank you very much for listening and see you soon. Bye.

Thank you.