Careium AB (Publ)

with Carriam, they're going to present the results for the second quarter of 2024. Joining me in the studio, I have CEO Christian Wallén, and in the virtual studio, we have CFO Mattias Karlsson. Welcome to both of you. Thank you. Thank you. So, Christian, to start off, what is your overall impression of the quarter?

Well, I think it's a stable and solid quarter. I think we are rightfully very proud of that due to, as I will discuss later, some slowdowns in some of our markets. And yet I think we are delivering in a very consistent and positive on a consistent and positive trajectory going forward. So I'm very happy with what we have achieved. And of course, I would have wanted it to be more. But sadly, the market context is not always with you. But we hope to see a good development over time going forward. And I'm particularly pleased about some of the innovation that we have released that I think is truly transformative in terms of our position in this niche market that we are in.

OK, thank you. And we are all eager to take part of your presentation. So please go

ahead. All right. Thank you so much. So as stated, I am Christian Wallén, CEO and President of Carriam. My CFO, Mattias Karlsson, is with me here also, but I will be running the presentation. So let's open up with the highlights for the second quarter of 2024. So first off, as stated, a solid, stable quarter, good development on the growth, good development on the profitability, something we are, of course, proud of lots of hard work to get there. And this is actually in spite of some of these coolings of customer urgency, seeing as both the UK and Sweden has imparted new grace periods for certain parts of infrastructure and how long they are assumed to remain functional, analog infrastructure in the UK and 2G, 3G in Sweden. Second, this quarter, late June, saw a fantastic release, the Resilient Sim, which is a bit nerdy, maybe. But since you all know, connectivity is a huge part of how we deliver our services. Without the connectivity, the likelihood of an individual being able to get the right kind of help, send the right signals and get the right data, of course, disappears. So in that regard, the Resilient Sim or R-Sim, as it's affectionately known, is basically a new innovation in SIM chipsets, where instead of just having a single SIM that roams between different providers, we now have two provider profiles on the same SIM. We've implemented everything in terms of all the adjacent systems and so on to accommodate this technology. And the benefits of this are actually immense, because what it does is that allows an individual under the care of Carrion Devices and Services to feel as if he or she has a connectivity insurance. So should there be network disturbances or outages, as we see more and more in many of our markets as infrastructure becomes old, he or she is protected by the intelligence of the device that ensures that connectivity is there. Second, what happens when outage takes place is that our customers, a municipality or an insurance company, they are forced to activate their crisis plans because they don't know what is happening to, maybe there are hundreds of thousands of people who are using the technology. And just the amount of saved effort and energy and resources, we believe is something that is extremely beneficial to our customers. And last but not least, I think also, as I said last quarter also, our continued focus on what we think are the high potential markets in Europe, that is Germany, Switzerland, Austria and also France, tremendous growth across the quarter, really happy about that. So really, really positive. And if we move to the sales and gross margin, we can see that we delivered 229.4, I believe, million-seeking sales, which is a growth of 7.3 compared to the same quarter last year. So of course, we had a strong contribution from our other markets. However, they are also in the grand scheme of things, starting from lower levels. So we actually had a quarter where all of markets, say for the UK that I will talk about later, delivered positively to the growth. Service sales amounted to 163.3 million, up from 158.9 in the same period last quarter last year. So an increase of 2.8%. Product sales amounted to 66.1 million SEK, up from 54.9 during Q2 in 2023, which is an increase of 20.5%. And this is of course also reflective of our increased focus on getting our technology out there. Gross margining, slightly lower, came in at .7% in the quarter versus 42.2 in the last quarter. And the main impacting factor here is of course the higher freight costs due to the Suez Canal situation, and also of course, to some extent, dependent on the product mix of the sales in the quarter. So with that, we had two R-Markets. And first off, in the Nordics, we saw our business steadily growing at 7.7%. Several new contracts contributed to this being implemented. So service sales rose .8% compared to the same period last year. On particular note, I think, is that product sales in Norway, which is traditionally a service market, actually grew .1% in the quarter, which is something that I think is quite impressive. The slight decrease in gross margin was caused by a shift in product and customer mix coupled with some of these gross margin pressures already mentioned. Now on the UK, as a reader of the report, you will probably think, oh, this is not looking so good. However, we are almost used to it. The UK struggles immensely with the fact that they have a tremendous amount, maybe 60, 55, nobody really knows, amount of all hundreds of thousands of users on analog equipment. And what this means with the infrastructure failings is that the UK simply cannot close down without having proper transition of all these installed units and devices. That would put people at too much of a risk. And thus the government have decided to extend this grace period, as you know, extended already in the first quarter, with additional year and now for one more year as well. And what happens here for us is that there is usually an immediate cooling effect when something like this is announced. And then over we can see service sales and product sales kind of going back to more normalized levels. What we can note here is that in the fourth quarter of 23 and the majority of the first quarter, we actually saw much, much larger decreases in the product sales in the UK. However, for this period now where the information came out so early that it impacted most of the quarter, we're actually not seeing the same detrimental effect. So we're pretty happy about that. And it seems that the customers have realized that while you might be given an additional year, you still need to transition a lot of service and product users. So in that regard, we remain quite confident that over time, this will actually adjust to a more normalized level. Cross margin slightly increased in the UK, not by much. And going to the Netherlands, we saw sales increase by 14% compared to the second quarter of 2023. The sales increase is both price increases and additional contracts and end users, which is great. Gross margin was at 55.1%, which might look a little bit low since same period last year was 60.7%. But this is mainly related as we communicated also throughout 2023, that we had some particular customer related projects ongoing that are no longer something we deliver on. And last but not least for the markets in what we call other markets, this is the Spains, the Germanys and the France's out there, Germany chief among them. We saw sales increase by .4% compared to the second quarter of 2023. Now, why? Well, we are making a lot of effort in getting more commercial excellence, i.e. really good people who are driving our sales. But we are also investing a lot in our resource allocation into really meeting the needs of the customers in these markets, because they are slightly different all over Europe. And this is the payoff that we're seeing. Now, the quarter here was obviously extraordinary. We do foresee this being at a very high level going forward, possibly not at 180% growth, but still very strong. As you might recall, in the first quarter, it was around 80%, if I'm not mistaken. So gross margin, little bit affected by the steering of the product mix and the freight that have already been mentioned. And with that, we turn to profitability, which I think is a very good standout in the report here. So we can see EBITDA amounted to a stable 37.6 million, up from 33 in the same period last year. This corresponds to an EBITDA margin of 16.4%, where it was at 15.4 in the past year. EBIT amounted to 21.8 million, up from 14.6 corresponding to an EBIT margin of 9.5%, which is quite dominantly increased from last year, where it sat at 6.8%. And this is of course, in part driven by an increase in sales and the good growth we've been having, but also due to our continuous work on efficiency and becoming a better business. And with that, we move to cash flow. So cash flow from the current activities in the second quarter of 2024 amounted to 14 million, down from 18.5 in the same period of last year. The free cash flow amounted to 0.5 million SEK, down from 7.7 in the same period of last year. And the working tie-up in the quarter was about 21.2 million, vastly increased from the 3.1 in the same period of last year. Now, why? Well, as we have mentioned, with this slowdown in the customer urgency to bring products and services on board, we of course need to plan for this in advance. And it's very hard to plan for an extension of a grace period, like I mentioned earlier. If you add to that the fact that we have a fairly long lead time from production to when we actually stock in warehouse something, our forecasts are running, of course, on a rolling basis, but still it's quite a long time, which has actually been increased due to the issues with the Suez Canal, since we prefer to use seafright to keep costs down and also from a sustainability perspective. So in that regard, this is mainly attributable to an inventory build-up based on the forecasting and the growth we were expecting. We're not too worried about it going forward, given that we do see quite a big demand for our products and services. Cash totaled 34.8 million, down from 53.7 at the end of the second quarter in 2023. In addition, the bank overdraft facility that we have showed available cash of 32.9 million, which was set at 35.2 in the same period last year. Net debt amounted to 183.2 million at the end of the quarter, down from 216.8 during the same period last year. So if we move into the concluding remarks, I think we are very positive about having a stable performance despite these challenges to sales. We do not foresee this being a major drag, but rather something that will normalize over time. We are extremely proud of launching the Resilient Sim and integrating it in our entire Eliza family of products as the first step, which is our fixed alarms, the most commonly used alarms that are in people's homes. What's also a bit interesting here is that, as you might have read in our first quarter, we actually have 100,000 Eliza family units deployed across Europe, which means that this also represents an opportunity to go back to all these markets that are challenged on infrastructure changes and offer customers the opportunity, following a physical swap out of course, to install this new technology since it's 100% backwards compatible. So that's also very interesting for -the-market sales. And last but not least, I want to underline how proud we are of seeing the other market segment moving so well. In terms of challenges, well, I've mentioned the Frights already. It's not just that the shipping companies are playing it really smart in terms of the costs, but it's also the delay, which of course has more of an impact on the forecasting, which is to us maybe more annoying than the actual cost increase, because it has more of an impact in our view to lose 30 days on the forecasting and planning. So additional delays also, as mentioned, we are not too worried about it. What we are likely to see is that the expected peaks are probably leveling out, kept at a higher level for longer. And you have a bit of an initial reaction from the market where, as an anecdotal example in Sweden, one of the largest contracts that we know will be out to tender and we're supposed to come after summer. As soon as it was announced that they were basically okay for another year, they called us up three days later and said, you know, is it possible to just delay this? We're thinking about, you know, what do you think? And we said, well, you are taking on an additional amount of risk by doing so. It's of course your choice. Sooner rather than later, you will have to go digital because you're losing out on a lot of security. But at the end of the day, it's your choice. So we just need to be a bit patient and to keep being as good as we are. And we're fairly convinced that this will turn out favorably. And for the priorities, of course, this is, you know, maximizing the value of these great innovations that we've taken to the market. It's the mobile social alarm, ABBY, that we're seeing great results on predominantly in France, where it's really taking off. And also the resilient SIM, released late June. So we haven't had that much time, of course, lots of marketing campaigns rolling and so on. So this is going to be really interesting. And we have a couple of other things that are coming in the second half of the year that we are really, really excited about. And last but not least, as some people have mentioned, the UK, we've been in this transition where we have exited a lot of contracts. And now we are really going to try and put the pedal to so to speak on getting a positive end user growth. We have cleared out the majority of the perhaps not so good contracts in the portfolio, and it's time to get back up on the winning horse and actually having a net positive rather than a net negative, even if all the other financial performance measures are looking in a good direction. And I actually think also correct me if I'm wrong, Mathias, that service sales in the UK were actually better quarter on quarter in the second quarter also.

A small, small increase.

Exactly. And given this, where we now look at the sort of halfway mark for the first half of the year, and we see that our growth is about 8%, our air bit is improved by some 86%, we retain our guidance for the full year. We do feel this innovation and the impact of this slowdown or cooling periods, it will gradually decrease, and we look to do a pretty good second half of the year. And I think that predominantly the fourth quarter is likely to be very strong for us. And with that, we conclude the presentation and open up to questions.

Thank you so much, Christian. Very inspiring to hear. And I'll start the Q&A by asking, well, you keep a steady growth in Q2, pretty much in line with the pace that you have in Q1. Is this in line with your expectations?

Well, no, it's clearly lower. I think we've definitely felt the impact of the customer reactions to these changes and the markets it's hitting. It's the UK and it's the Swedish one, which coincidentally are our two biggest ones. So we are, of course, a bit frustrated. You always want to do better. But here is a challenge that it's quite hard to get around. So we just need to be patient, keep doing the same good work we're doing, and hopefully we will see this reverse over time.

Yeah,

thank you.

And with that, I will unleash equity analyst Oskar Rundqvist of ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead with your questions.

Thank you very much for that. So I think I can just begin with the A2D shutdown and then also the 2G shutdown postponement in terms of organic growth. Do you feel like, I mean, sort of underlying feels like it was accelerating the organic growth, even though we have one percentage point decline from Q1. But I don't know if you could sort of quantify anything on the shutdowns. Do you feel like the underlying growth is accelerating or is it still, you know, a little bit underwater if you exclude all those impacts?

I think it's a bit of a timing issue because there's a little bit of a psychological effect, like I mentioned on the anecdote there with the large customer in Sweden. So when our customers who are, and I think we have to be honest with this, many of them are of course quite cost conscious. So when they are given the opportunity to postpone investment for a year or smear it over a longer period of time, they tend to go for that. And of course, we can do our part in making a good and as an opportunity as can be made out of that. But it does have a bit of an impact. So I think it's more important to gauge this over some more time. I don't know if you remember, Oskar, but we communicated in the fourth quarter regarding the UK that we saw a substantial decrease in product related sales following the initial announcement that was without a deadline, a new deadline. It was just a vague kind of we're going to postpone. As soon as the deadline was set, which was, you know, one additional year, sales normalized, which was in March with January and February being impacted in the same way. Now that only lasted for some 30 days and then they again concluded that they would have to add one more year onto that. And this is now the effect that we've been seeing. So in summary, I'd argue that the decrease is a lot lower than it was following the initial announcements. So I think it's a little bit more of a change in the way that we're looking into it. It doesn't change the fact that you have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of individuals out there, for example, in the UK that need to be addressed because they will not be able to have this security and safety should someone actually pull the plug. So in that regard, I think it's more of a little bit of being patient.

Perfect. Thank you. I guess that, you know, closer to the actual shutdown, you will have an increased demand. But can we say that, you know, it has normalized a little bit after the sort of first impact. If you look at, I don't know how the first few weeks have developed in July and also sort of how the quarter ended.

Yeah, I think that's fair to say. I mean, we also had a lot of our customers involved in the testing of the resilient SIM because we do things with a strong focus on quality. And that, of course, could also have had a little bit of an effect in that you knew that something new was coming. You were, you know, invited to the party and to make sure that the technology truly was great, as great as advertised. And that could also have a partial effect. I'm hesitant to make any excuses, but we have seen a sort of positive uptick here at the start of the month, but it's still way too early.

Got it. And just in the Nordics, I think you mentioned that Norway grew around 50 percent. Any particular reason behind the accelerated growth or we haven't really seen the growth numbers before that? No, it was,

yeah. And we, as you know, we disclosed the Nordics as one business unit, so to speak, but we just wanted to highlight something really positive coming out of Norway. And in this particular case, it was related to a large region of Norway choosing Carium for a lot of their product needs in the quarter.

Right. And how recurring is that if we could sort of extrapolate that into something?

Well, I think it will all definitely improve the Norwegian outcomes going forward. But I mean, we do a lot of things in Norway. So this was more of a really interesting kind of indication, seeing as the Nordic market is more of a service market in the sense that you, as a customer, you source the hardware, the installation, the monitoring, the digital services all in one package on a recurring basis. So we don't usually see those sharp spikes in product-related contracts. So it was more of a positive indication that the Nordics are serious about technology enabled care.

I see. Perfect. Just on the other region, which saw obviously very healthy growth of 180 percent, but we've also seen a substantial ramp up for quite a while now. So, and you say that you make a lot of efforts here. So both just, do you feel like you are fully prepared now on the R&D side to attract more growth in this market? Or do you think that you need to see sort of accelerated investments to be fully prepared here? Or are you thinking of any sort of M&A opportunities where you could maybe accelerate into this market?

Well, I'd rather strengthen our already excellent R&D organization than pursue M&A opportunities related to technology. Because while there are, you know, niche players who are really narrow in their approach and technology that might be doing a great job out there, I do feel that we are the number one sort of quality and innovation leader in our industry. And I'm not so sure that M&A is really the catalyst to retain that position. I think we can do a whole lot more ourselves. And our M&A should probably be focused on other angles, so to speak. So I'd rather see a bit more of an investment into R&D to be able to sustain and create similar good trajectories in other markets. Got it.

Just have one question on the guidance. I reckon that you reiterate your full year guidance for 12 to 15 percent organic growth. Just on the EBIT guidance, I think you've made a little bit more than 40 million in EBIT in H1 compared to, I think, was 60 million in the full 2023. So just if you could help us a little bit on the margin side, I think you started off with a little bit more than 9 percent of EBIT margin in H1. Do you think that's a sustainable level or do you expect the OPEX to ramp up or the gross margin to come down or anything that could hurt the margin in H2?

Well, the only guidance we have is that we will do better, so I won't comment so much more on that. But I think we have the opportunity to be a very profitable company. But do we want to take the foot of the gas, so to speak, in investing to create an even stronger future? No. I still think we have a lot more to do and it would be unwise of us to go for a sort of profitability play at this stage. We still have so much growth opportunities, more or less, in all of our markets. So I would be hesitant. I'd rather see us increase our journey to becoming an even more technology-centric company. And I think we're well on the way of that. And it would be really interesting to face the second half of the year to see even more of these innovations hitting the market.

I see. And just can we interpret that as, you know, we will accelerate R&D rather than accelerating sales and marketing? Or should we see it as a sort of a balanced mix between the two?

Well, I mean, for some of our markets, it would probably not be so beneficial to increase the commercial organizations. They are probably quite right-sized to where we currently are. Should we grow and get additional technologies or what have you, then it might make sense. But I would probably invest a bit more in R&D, yes, going forward. If you recall also when we were in troubled times in 2022, of course, marketing R&D, those are the kind of areas that you, you know, examine really harshly to see if you can make savings and so on. And I think it's a pretty normal kind of bounce back to say, well, we're on a good trajectory. We're doing well. We're highly appreciated by customers and our users alike, providing a lot of value and enabling lives in a way that few others can do. So let's do more of that because we are clearly being rewarded for doing so with our growth rate and the corresponding profitability.

Perfect. Thank you. I think I'll do, I just want to do one question on the cash flow in terms of timing. So pretty negative working capital tie up here in Q2, but how much of that was sort of surprising for you? Just, I mean, some of the, obviously regards to the market headwind, so to say, in the UK and Sweden and also as you think you allude to the freight, both the freight rates or the freight timing. So do you expect any sort of normalization in age two in terms of working capital or is it too early to say anything?

Mattias, you've been so silent for such a long time. Why don't you step in here? I

would say that it was a bit surprising that the tie-ups would come so that it would be such a big tie-up in Q2. And that was, as we have explained regarding, yeah, the deliveries out of the inventory were less than we planned for. I think that if no new surprises arise, I don't think we will have the same problem in the second half of the year. But yeah, you never know. But I'm positive on the cash flow side for the rest of the year.

Yeah, and I think an important part is also that, I mean, obviously we don't disclose this, but if we look at what is in the inventory, it is the type of devices and technologies that we assumed would drive a greater level of growth. So the demand for those are still out there. We are actually, Mattias, I think, very positive about our overall inventory situation because the majority of all legacy inventories and agreements to produce and so on, we have shifted those out quite efficiently. So it's the right type of things.

It's not the old things that

we

did. It has been buffering up a bit more than we planned due to the slowdown a bit on deliveries. But those are, that means that we are well prepared for selling a lot in the coming months.

Yeah. All right, good to hear. I think that was most of it from my side. Thank you very much for taking time to answer.

Thank you, Oskar.

Thank you, Oskar. And if you want to ask more questions, you can raise your hand. I'll let you in again. I will also be raising some questions from the viewers as we move on. But first, you've been covering a lot about the market. So I will ask when it comes to, when will we see more from other markets?

Oh, that's a very good question. Well, as I think I've stated a couple of times, we've done a pretty extensive sort of strategy review during last year. And what we conclude is that we are, with physical presence, where 85% of European spend in our industry is happening. And given that, we are not so sure that it's in our best interest to actively pursue the Czech Republic or Greece or what have you in our sort of European environment, we are probably better served doubling down on the places we are in. Now, the big question that you have to think about is, of course, the US. But I think as everyone knows, it's very hard for a Scandinavian European company to make it there. But it's something to radar. It's by far the biggest single market, it has the most attractive margin profile and so on. But it's not something that we would be doing in an easy manner. It's really tough, as many companies have learned. And I think we are probably better in focusing a little bit more on getting ourselves exactly where we want to be in Europe before we start entertaining those thoughts.

Thank you. And if I move back to other markets, we have a question here saying, if you could give us some example of what kind of customers do you sell to in other markets? Is there a difference?

No, that's a really good question. So, we talk a lot about in the Nordics, for example, about the municipalities and the public side. In those other markets, the France, the Germany's and so on, it is completely different. It's a B2B game. So it follows all the traditional kind of aspect of enterprise sales or large scale business to business engagements. And of course, what we want to do is partner with the winners in those respective markets. This is also one of the reasons for why we are not running alarm receiving center operations in these markets, because our customers do. And we don't intend to compete with them. We rather want to supply them with the hardware and the software that enables them to do a great job for their seniors under their care. So it's a completely different way of working. And we're very happy that we have these different segments. And if you think about the sort of market logic or business logic of why are we in business to public business to business and even private pay, I mean, we have around 20,000 customers who are there on their own volition, so to speak, that we service directly. It's actually not that strange, because in the business to public segment, we have the huge volumes, perhaps the average price per connection, so to speak, is not so great, but there is stability, it's multi-year, it's what allows you to build a very, very solid base of your business. In the B2B segment, you have perhaps more of an orientation towards hardware and software, but it does include services also. And you have slightly better margins, but the for the contracts. And last but not least, you have the consumer side, which I think we haven't talked so much about, hopefully something we'll have opportunity to check in with in a different way, where you have by far the best margin profile, some customer acquisition costs, of course, but it's of course the smallest, most high value segment. But that's also where you have the most opportunities for upselling and adding more value to the end users and so on. So that's sort of the you gain a lot from playing in all of these three. In Norway, well, you're probably best sticking predominantly with the public side.

Okay, thank you. And if we move to product, I think we all realize how important our SIM is for you. But if we look on a longer time period, what is your product pipeline look like?

Since we haven't communicated so much about it, I won't go into much detail. But I would rather say that I think myself, the management team and the entire organization are really, really excited about the things in development, the things we are doing, and how they will allow us to service all types of customers better, and also service ourselves. Because there's a lot of innovation since we do end to end, that if we do it really well, it is likely that it's extremely valuable to our customers also. So I'm not going to comment so much on it. It will be a topic for another day. But I can just assure all the participants and the audience that we are very much hard at work at creating our future.

Another question regarding the problems or what you should say about the supply chain. How do you see at the risk having the whole production line in Asia?

It's an extremely good question. We are, of course, like everyone, looking at options since no one really knows where the geopolitical winds are blowing. What I would say though, it's not as easy as just saying that Asian manufacturing is cheap. That's of course part of the story, but it's also extremely competent. So when you visit our production partners that we've had for almost 20 years, it's like entering a Swiss watch manufacturing facility. Everything is super clean. It is extremely high tech. So they are also highly efficient. And I think one of our problems is actually that we are probably a little bit too low volume for Asian productions since they're so used to doing so much. But thankfully, we've had these long term partners who really work in great ways together with us. And I think it's not as simple as just moving out due to, you know, you can pay slightly more and feel slightly more safe. It's also a lot of competence in the Asian markets for production. They're really good at it. And I mean, what is it? It comes 100,000 engineers coming out to China every year, something like that. That's not bad. So while this is an ongoing discussion and certainly a very important one, you know, we read the papers like everyone and it's in the back of our minds, but it is something to evaluate rather than something to knee jerk kind of act on.

All right. We have received a question more regarding to the financials. When will you repay the hybrid loan?

So I'll comment a little bit on that. So the hybrid loan for those that don't know about it, it is something that was set when the split was made out of Dorro and Carrion was separately listed. And if I'm not completely misinformed, and you will have to help me here, Mattias, the legal aspects of how Dorro was allowed to capitalize Carrion put a limit on how much they could do. And thus the hybrid loan was put in place as a way of capitalizing the business moving sort of slightly around that, of course, deemed by the legal teams at, I think, Vinge and PWC as the auditor as a perfectly viable way of doing it. Now, the hybrid loan to us seeing is a part of the equity, of course, it's of course very beneficial. So I'm going to quote a former large scale investor who was the former CFO of Big Bank. He said, I would be very interested to understand how the board would communicate that this hybrid loan would take precedence and be more senior to the other forms of debt financing the company. So I'll leave it at that.

All right, that was a very good answer. And there was a transaction announced today within your sector. It's Nordic capital acquires Norwegian peer, Sencio. What's your comments to this?

I think it's absolutely fantastic that, you know, institutions of the renown and reputation that Nordic capital has are finally opening their eyes to this sector. I mean, this is, you can't get much more future proof, you can't get much more technology orientated than you need to be to be really successful in this, you know, amazingly area that we are working in. And what I will say, though, knowing Sencio, of course, as a company that we collaborate with, and we do a lot of things together since we are not exactly overlapping and competing, we're like very good neighbors. I think if you dig down into how Sencio was constructed, following a lot of M&A and a lot of focus on certain key areas, I think the important part that I take with me is obviously that I genuinely feel that carry is undervalued. I'll put it like that.

Okay, and I don't have any more questions. And I cannot see raised hand from the equity analyst. So I hereby thank you so much, Christian and Martias, for your presentation and all your answers.

Thank you so much. Pleasure to be here.