Cibus Nordic Real Estate AB (publ)

Good morning. Good morning, everybody. And welcome to our webcast for our quarter one 2025 results. Christian Fredriksen speaking here and joined, as always, by?

Pia-Lena Olofsson.

CFO. So welcome, everybody, and thank you for joining. Let's jump to the next slide, please. So my favorite slide, you will recognize this, converting food into yield. This is still what we do and are planning to continue to do. We are now doing it though on a pan-European basis. As you will see, what's the biggest news in this quarterly report is of course that we now have We are now reporting with the two acquisitions made earlier this year in Benelux, the former state's acquisition and the Danish portfolio of nine assets, which we closed also earlier this year. And those figures are included about two of three months of this quarter. So Siebes converting food into yield. Most of you will recognize what we're saying here, but what we do is we're a real estate company focused purely on daily goods properties. We're the only listed vehicle in the Nordics to do exactly this. There are a couple of European peers on other stock exchanges in the UK and some in Germany, but we're the only ones listed in the Nordic. We've been listed since 2018. We've been paying monthly dividends to our shareholders for this is the fifth consecutive year we've done that. And we've grown from a Finnish supermarket portfolio into the pan-European grocery real estate player that we are now. Our market cap in mid-April was about 1.1 billion euros. And our aim is to create these stable cash flows, which I'm going to talk about a bit later, and also increase earnings capacity per share, which is our key metric, which we follow internally very, very closely. So our properties in the Q1 2025. For those of you that have followed the pro forma, which we have talked about before, latest in our Q4 results, you will recognize many of these numbers. A point to make there is that the Forum Estates integration is going very, very well. I think we're very happy to see, of course, both that the integration is working well and also that the figures are in line with what we said in the performer. So you'll recognize most of these slides. We have now 640 properties, a property value of about 2.4 billion and an earnings capacity of 156.3 and 1.3 million square meters. And if you look at our tenant share of NOI, you will see that we have a very well diversified portfolio when it comes also to our NOI and and counterparty risks. You will see now that some of the household names from Europe, other parts of the Nordics have increased. And just summarizing some of the figures you will recognize before, 81% of our rental income is from non-cyclical daily goods tenants, which is a high and good number. 95% of our properties are anchored by daily goods tenants, and our average property size is 2,100 square meters, which is more or less a supermarket. We have a supermarket portfolio more or less in all of our countries. And 99% of our rental agreements are index linked, which is very important when it comes to growing organically just by itself. So we tend to follow what happens in the CPI linked agreements that that's how we grow some of our NOI. Our WALT, I know PLN will talk a bit more about this later, but in Belgium there's a statutory right for retail tenants to give every three years to give notice to leave the building. That gives us the opportunity now to present the WALT in two ways. what we call the Walt, which is 5.8 years, which is the long contract in Belgium, what's actually in the lease. And then a worst case scenario is the Walt B, where every single Belgian tenant would give their three years notice when they can. So the truth is somewhere in between. The underlying portfolio, the Nordic portfolio, has had a Walt of about five years since the company's inception and is stable around that figure. And 90% of our leases are net to triple net, which shelters us from property increases from the tenants or on the properties. And this is a win-win situation for us and the tenants, because for the tenants, these stores are a very important part of their operational infrastructure. They want to be able to manage the stores and the sites in the way that they seem fit. So the customers and deliveries can get in and out in an easy way, but they don't necessarily have to own the assets. So we're happy to own the assets with these net and triple net leases. Creating stable cash flows also comes from a large hedging ratio, 97% of our debt is interest hedge and we've been working throughout the quarter to extend that. So at the end of the quarter it's 2.7 years our interest hedge maturity. And when it comes to the actual quarterly figures, a very strong quarter, we're happy to report today. As you see, rental income is up 28% year on year. And please remember, this is only including the new acquisitions for two of three months of the first quarter. Net operating income up 30% on year. And then the profit from property management amounted to 38 billion euros, up from 12.2. Worth noting, of course, there's a very big other income post in here, which is a 20.5 million negative goodwill post. And this arised from the acquisition of the Forum Estates portfolio, where it was carried out at a discount. When it comes to earnings per tax, 31 million. And when it comes to the unrealized changes in value, which is minus 7.3 million in the quarter. People are saying that there's an echo in the call. Is this something we can be assisted with? Are people having problems with this? Let's continue and see if more people... Okay, our moderator says she hears everything perfectly. Okay, let's continue. So back to unrealized changes in values. So when it comes to the value changes in this quarter, values were up in all of our countries apart from Finland. So in six countries they were up and we're happy to see that it's stable yields and increasing slightly in those six markets. What we see in Finland is also stable yields and stable property market. What we see here is that there's two properties where our tenant Kesko has given notice that they sooner or later will leave. And this is really nothing out of the ordinary. This is normal course of our business. Some tenants come and some tenants go. In this case, there was a hit on value in Finland for these two assets. But I think partly it's normal course of business. And then I think we've already shown, as we've demonstrated and mentioned in press release from last week and also in the report, that we have active plans on how to manage these types of assets. in finland when the kesko left one of a building in helsinki we have now during the quarter sold it to another grocery chain um who will open their own store in that building so i think there's alternative use for our assets and i think we've we've proven that um so that's how we deal with these types of assets uh our app renov is almost a billion euros and 12.6 euros per share so this is our growth timeline um a bit of a hockey stick at the end of course there as seen with these large portfolios and a comment worth making here is that we look across all of our seven markets geographical markets and also in the rest of europe to see where we can get the best yield spread and the best um return for our shareholders That means that we grow only when we see cash earnings per share accretive transactions. Growth in itself is not a target we have, but we see the opportunities to grow right now. We are the only listed real estate company owning retail assets listed in Europe that are trading at a premium. And that, of course, gives us opportunities to grow. Earnings capacity per share as mentioned, this is the key metric for us and happy to see that this has now grown for the seventh consecutive quarter and the performer figure of 1.04 is what we hit dead on target now here in our Q1 earnings capacity. And that's 8% up year on year. And as mentioned, this grows through top line indexation growth, 99% index linked leases. We have lower margins, both on banks and bonds. And then there's large acquisitions, which we've carried out. So as a point here on the key takeaways from 2025, improved results, NY up 30%, as I mentioned, property from property management up to 38 million, including the negative goodwill. EPRA NRV per share up 8% and earnings capacity up 8% quarter on quarter, I should say, and then increased earnings capacity per share 8% year on year. Integration is going very well and delivering according to plan for our foreign states acquisition. In 2025, I'm happy to say that we've also already announced some transactions. We've made some accretive acquisitions in daily goods assets in both Belgium and in Finland. Very happy to see that we are working and cooperating so well with our new Belgian colleagues, which have also allowed us to sell a number of non-strategic assets in a couple of our markets. In Belgium, we've sold a number of DIY assets, which is not really converting food into yield. During the quarter, we've also been busy with refinancing of bank loans. As announced last week, we carried out a refinancing of about 19% of our total bank loans with more than 50 basis points lower margins. And then we carried out the bond earlier this year in January at 250 basis points spread. And that's moved the average credit margin of all debt with now in Q1 from 2.9% to 2.3%. Hedging, as mentioned, we've extended this to 2.7 years at attractive levels. We carried out a spread or a new hedging here in April when markets were really, really choppy and volatile and managed to get that at 1.97%, which was a great achievement at the time. we'll see where interest rates are going i mean it's it's uh anyone's guess what's going to be the strongest here of the factors of driving inflation with what's happening in the us and with what's happening with european defense spending etc or is will central banks cut interest rates because of recession risks and the recessions we see So the way we handle that is we prefer to have a large part of our debt hedged, interest rate hedged, and extending maturities on those to make sure that we can continue to deliver stable cash flows. Point seven here on the macro and geopolitics. I think it's worth saying that we're very happy and pleased that we're in the daily goods sector. It's non-cyclical and resilient sector. Not much food is imported from the US into the EU. won't be one of the most hard hit sectors from any of this continued tariff and trade wars. And also people need to buy and eat food irrespective of if it's a pandemic or if it's high inflation or if it's trade wars. So happy to be in this sector, stable cash flows and stable tenants with stable margins when it comes to the larger grocery chains. And then looking forward, we are happy that we have been given a 20% new mandate for the board to raise new equity. So happy that our owners have supported us there at the EGM, which is a tool we can use and if we see the right accretive acquisition opportunities. And then short on the transactions we have announced in 2025. In Q1, we bought a grocery store in Beringen. It's a Jumbo store. Jumbo is a Dutch retail chain, which is prevalent in Belgium. As mentioned, it's an 18-year lease. But then there's, of course, these three-year breaks. And the way that the Belgian system works, Belgian lease system works when tenants have this three-year break option is that The properties are let out more or less as shell and core, which means that the tenants often invest between 2000 and 2500 euros per square meter. So when tenants are that heavily invested, they're not likely to leave within short notice. They're invested heavily and they invest themselves long term into the buildings. We acquired also a store in Finland, a newly built or it's a store under construction with an 18-year lease with a major grocery chain in the town of Isami in the middle of Finland. So we made acquisitions for 9.3 million euros, which have been announced. Only one of those was in G1. The Isami store is in Q2. then when it comes to the divestments i'm happy that we're regenerating some of our internal capital as well we've sold these diy stores in belgium as mentioned led to the diy chain gamma for 2.10 10.2 million euros but we've also sold these grocery stores in helsinki which i mentioned one is a store which kesco is leaving and then immediately we sold that at a significantly higher value than book value uh we sold that to another grocery chain who wants to open a store and move in and i think that's exactly what we see and i've talked about before when it comes to grocery that more or less all of the major chains across europe want to grow in lidl in sweden for example they want to open 100 stores as soon as they can ikea is opening um a 10 15 20 new ikea maxis which is their hypermarket so So there's a lot of pressure when it comes to opening new stores and wanting more space. And I think if you compare this to other sectors where there's a bit of questions on what's occupancy rates, what's the demand going forward, when it comes to grocery, demand is very strong for these locations or for this store type. In Q2, we also sold a former coop store in Eslav, Sweden, where we chose to sell it to the municipality so they can continue to do an urban development of that site. So that's another example of the alternative use for our property. So the takeaway and conclusion here is in all these countries, we managed to sell properties at above book values. then over to oh yes thank you thank you just yes just a quick point on the one plus joint venture um which you'll find in our reports as well this is a very interesting new source of growth for cebus this is something that forum of states had set up with this developer with the developer ts33 And what this joint venture is, we own about 31%. It's about five retail properties there. And what TS33 does is it builds newly built retail assets or grocery assets. And when the grocery assets are completed, this joint venture has the right to first refusal to purchase these new grocery stores. And OnePlus has a strong pipeline of these supermarket opportunities, and it is a potential additional source of growth. And it's well governed, and we can say yes and no to things, which is great. Over to you, Pelle.

Thank you. So, looking at the... net operating income was 36.6 million euros for the first quarter. Administration costs now include the office in Ghent with 12 employees from foreign estates. We have a non-recurring income item of plus 20.5 million euros, which comprises of the negative goodwill, which arose in connection with acquisition of foreign estates. since the acquisition was made to a discount to the net assets. Net financial items includes an exchange rate change of minus 0.9 million euros, mainly due to the stronger SEAC. Profit from property management excluding non-recurring items and exchange rate differences was 18.4 million euros. We sold two properties in Finland, which gave a realized change in investment properties of plus 2.4 million euros. We had somewhat increased underlying property value in all countries, except Finland, as Christian mentioned, where we had a negative unrealized changes, mainly due to two properties where Kesko had announced notice of future termination. Earnings for the quarter was 31 million euros or 0.42 euros per share. Earnings capacity the 1st of... Sorry. The earnings capacity the 1st of April 2025 serves a net operating income of 156.3 million euros, which is an increase of 37% since the 1st of April 2024. Profit from property management minus the expense for the hybrid bond and adding back non-cash items amounted to 79.2 million euros, 1.4 euros per share, which is an increase of 8% since the 1st of April 2024. After the period, as we announced, the 17th of April, we announced the outcome of the refinancing of bank loans of 232.5 million euros at reduced credit margins by more than 0.5 percentage points. Since the earnings capacity is a snapshot, the 1st of April, the lower financing costs are not included in the earnings capacity. Looking at the net operating income, the effect of changes in occupancy was fairly unchanged since Q4 at minus 2%. Indexation increased NOI with plus 1.9%. And as you can see, it is the acquisition that is mainly driving growth. Sibus segments is countries, and we now have seven countries. Belgium, Netherlands, and the Luxembourg is part of the group since the 27th of January this year. So they're part of the NOI will be higher in the second quarter. Of property value, Finland has 47%, Denmark 17%, and Belgium is the third largest with 16%. Looking at the balance sheet at the end of the first quarter, property value was 2.4 billion euros. Secured debt, 1.2 billion euros, giving a loan to value on secured debt of 50.6%. Unsecured bonds was 247, no, 245 million euros, giving a net loan to value of 58.7%. Net asset value after NRB was 965 million euros or 12.6 euros per share, which is an increase of 8% since the last quarter. The weighted average remaining lease time is shown in the graph on the top, both without Belgian termination rights, which then is a vote of 5.8 years, or with Belgian termination rights, which then is 4.2 years. In Belgium, as Christian said, the tenants of retail properties have the right to terminate the lease every third year. And to minimize that risk, this is usually offset by that the tenants invest significantly in the premises and thus want to stay. Looking at funding, as you can see, bank financing is still the largest part of CBUS external funding with 81%. And as we said, we have done refinancing after the period at much lower margins. We have senior unsecured bonds. That is 16% of our financing. And the 10th of January this year, we did a new bond of 50 million euros, which was issued with a four-year tenor at a margin of 250 basis points over Eurobore. For CBUS, stable cash flows is very important and CBUS continue to have a high degree of hedging with 97% of our loans hedged. Based on the earnings capacity and taking all the interest rate hedging in consideration, an increase of the market interest rate with one percentage point would affect profit with minus 1.5 million euros annually. And a decrease of one percentage point of Marcus rates would affect profit with plus 2.7 million euros. And why an interest rate reduction has a greater impact is due to that we have interest rate caps, which is about 42% of the hedging on loans. Looking at the key metrics, net LTV was 58.7%. And since the funds raised through the directed share user has been deployed, it's slightly higher than before. And also that we have the new bond. The covenant in the MTM program is 70% net LTV, so good headroom to that. Interest rate coverage ratio was 2.3 times and also well above the covenant of 1.5 times. The net debt to EBITDA increased in the quarter due to the redundant acquisitions, which has increased the debt while the EBITDA is built over time. And if you use the earnings capacity, the forward-looking net debt EBITDA is 10 times. CBUS generate stable cash flow so we can pay out the dividend to our shareholders on a monthly basis. This year, we have a five year anniversary of paying out monthly dividends. At the AGM, they decided on an unchanged dividend of 0.90 euros per share paid out in 12 installments. And the dividend yield on the share price at the end of the quarter was 6.9%. Looking at the share price performance, the share price at the end of the quarter was 148.05 SEK. per share and CBUS is a very liquid share with more than twice the average than other real estate companies with a market cap of 10 billion SEK at Nasdaq Stockholm. I'm not having an easy with the computer and jumping. So just a good snapshot of our shareholders, which we are very proud of, and they've been with us for a very long time. And we're also happy that we have 55,000 shareholders. Over to you, Christian.

Thank you. Thank you. So speaking a bit about the future, let's jump and talk about our our common future on this globe esg what we try and do is we want to provide sustainable marketplaces and then esg is an important factor for real estate i mean real estate in general is is one of the one or and heating of real estate is an important contributor to global greenhouse gases of course SEBIS has a path to climate neutrality 2030 to become climate neutral. We have reported in our annual report for 2024, we voluntarily reported under the CSRD reporting directive. And among other things, we can show there that 49% of our assets are taxonomy aligned. which is up from 31%. And this is by the way, at the end of the year, these are figures from the Q4 figures. What interesting as well is that we have 79, almost 80% of our tenants have their own SBTI goals, which is what we've been talking about before is that our tenants are consumer facing companies, grocery tenants with large aspirations within ESG themselves. And that feels great. That, of course, returns are the most important thing for us. And let's not forget that. But if we can do some good along the way, that's great. When it comes to the financing, we, of course, have our green and sustainable financing framework in place. But I think what's worth listing here as well is the S in ESG. These assets and the supermarkets and supermarket chains, they are a part of social infrastructure in our societies. An important part of this resilient society is feeding a population. People need to eat in pandemics and people in times of crises. And as I wrote in the CEO comments, I think a perfect example of this is what we see in Finland. where the Finnish government and the grocery chains have launched an initiative to make 300 grocery stores across the country into self-sufficient distribution points for grocery even if there's no electricity. So the government and the chains are cooperating in making sure that these sites and these stores continue to operate even if there's power shortage, even if it's times of crisis, and a place where you can meet, get information, and also charge your mobile phones, etc. So very interesting initiative there in Finland, which kind of, I think, proves the point that this is an important part of infrastructure. Also mental health, a place to meet for many people. Supermarket is the place to meet if you live alone, slow cashiering we've talked about before. Important for us and what we can add to this is to see what we can do to create safe and accessible marketplaces for everybody. And then when it comes to what we're looking at moving forward, I think these are the main six areas. We want to continue to grow earnings capacity per share in all parts of the business. And we grow the earnings capacity, as you've seen, both through acquisitions and through organic growth, through indexation and cost control, etc. So it's all about creating that earnings capacity per share. Continue to work with and further integrate our platform for growth in the Benelux, the Forum Estates platform. We will continue to work with balance sheet optimization, refinancing and hedging. Very important, of course, now with what we're seeing, the turmoil and volatility in the financial markets. We want to continue to create these stable cash flows and deliver to our shareholders. We want to look at cash earnings per share accretive transactions. We see interesting opportunities in our seven existing markets and we're actively evaluating other opportunities and other markets in Europe. I'm proud of the team working very hard. We're a small team. We used to be 12 people. We are now 24 with the Benelux team, a small but diligent and forward leaning team, which are very proud of what we're doing. And I'm very happy to see that we've carried out these transactions earlier this year with our Benelux team and the strong Nordic teams continue to deliver as well. And lastly, but definitely not least, we're committed to deliver shareholder value by continuing to convert food into yield. That's just a commercial break, that's why. Let's move to the Q&A.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Oscar Lindquist from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. A couple of questions from me. If we start on the transactions announced last week, are there any more sort of non-core assets that you would like to divest from the former state's portfolio?

um yes there are a number of assets uh they had slightly less uh grocery converting food into yield assets than we do uh we as in siebes nordic so yes there are a couple of more assets we're looking into um how we should treat them going forward but i mean um There's strong cash flowing assets and with strong tenants, just not kind of non-strategic for us as we like to convert food into yield, but there's nothing wrong with them and they're cash flow producing. So the price needs to be right for us. Could you give an indication of the volume here? No, not really. You'll hear about it when and when it happens. Then and when it happens. Yeah, yeah.

Sure, sure. And also on the transactions that you announced, could you give a sort of net impact on rental income?

We're not giving that.

For the investments and acquisitions?

No, we're not giving that figure, but so far they're minor acquisitions, of course, two acquisitions of two stores. So quite a small impact so far from acquisitions this year.

Okay. And I'm correct in assuming that these transactions are not reflected in the earnings capacity, right?

Yes, the jumbo asset in Beringen is because we closed that in during Q1 and the earnings capacity is forward looking from 1st of April.

OK, and then on acquisitions, can you give any insights on where you're looking, what markets look the most interesting and do you have any ongoing discussions?

I think the strength that CBUS has being in seven countries and being able to look at more countries is that we are investigating where we can find the best return for our shareholders. As communicated previously, what we're looking for is stable grocery markets. I mean, stable in that the tenants are performing well. There's dynamics among the tenants which works well. We're also looking for kind of stable economies and stable real estate guidelines and rules and zoning plans, etc. But we don't necessarily, as many other investors, maybe need to look at so stable real estate markets. I mean, we're a buy and hold player. Many other investors are kind of need to time things, time buying and selling. As we're a buy and hold player, we feel we can look a bit more freely there as long as the dynamics are right and the assets bought are cash earnings per share created from day one. Okay.

And then on refinancing, you refinanced 20% approximately of your bank debt now in April. And the margin on average was down 50 basis points. How would you say that this translates to the remainder of your bank debt? Do you have the same potential here?

I mean, we do have good dialogue with the banks and they are continuing to giving us support. I want to have more volume. I want to do more business with Sybis. Yes, it's looking good, but we will come back with the refinance we do also going forward. But we have positive dialogue with the banks.

Okay. And then one final question on the new JV One Plus. Could you give any indication of... Should we expect to see some material contributions in the near term, or how's the pipeline looking here?

And I wouldn't say material contributions. It's a pretty small joint venture. It holds five assets right now. And the developer is not a huge developer, but they have very good relations with the grocers. So it's more of a future potential pipeline of new assets. And we want to lift it forward also because it is an interesting fountain of new potential growth. And we're happy to look into see if there's more opportunities out like that out there in the markets.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Victor Hockenhammer from Pareto Securities. Please go ahead.

Hi Kristian and Pia-Lina, thanks for a great presentation. Starting with the occupancy rate now above 95%. How does that compare between Nordic and continental European portfolios of yours?

Yeah, I can take that. Yeah, we had higher occupation rate in the former states deal, which is contributing to the higher occupation rate that we have in the quarter. But otherwise, it's quite stable in the Nordics and the other parts also. But the increase in occupation was due to the foreign states too.

A comment on the Nordic side of things is, I mean, it's business as usual. We extend leases with grocery players. We've let some of non-grocery space as and when there is some vacancies. But as Pia-Lena mentioned, it's a stable quarter. as expected.

Sounds good. And then just a final question on refinancing of bank loans, as mentioned, what is the average secured credit margin now after last week's announcement?

I mean, we haven't commented on that, unfortunately, so I cannot do it on this call. But of course, it will have an effect, which we will disclose in the Q2 report.

Okay, perfect. That was all. Thank you.

Thank you, Victor.

The next question comes from Svante Krokfors from Nordia. Please go ahead.

Good morning, Svante from Nordia. Thank you, Christian and Pia-Lena for the presentation. Actually, most of my questions have already been answered, but a couple of them left. So perhaps first on You have now been integrating foreign estates for some months. Is there any negative or positive surprises that you have encountered or has everything been as planned?

Everything has been as planned. I mean, we did a very extensive due diligence during 2024. I'm very happy that the figures, of course, Not surprising to us, but now we can present that the figures really match up to what we've said. I think a positive surprise. I was surprised. I'm happy to see that we've managed to do these transactions so fast and really hit the ground running together in selling these non-strategic assets and also buying one asset in Belgium.

thank you and then a question a bit touching an earlier question here but i mean you now have have authority to issue 20 new shares that would enable around about 500 million euros in acquisitions would you would you look at completely new markets or would you primarily use the base that you have in in foreign states uh i would say both uh i would say one

If and when we find the right cash earnings per share accretive opportunities, then as long as it meets the criteria mentioned earlier about new markets, then we would be happy to enter a new market. I think the Forum Estates acquisition and also the large Danish acquisitions we did kind of prove the point that we are able to do so. But of course, a company should grow in kind of a steady flow, if possible. But I feel that we've managed to integrate Forum Estate, that's worked very well. And if the opportunities arise, then we're happy to look at other things as well.

Thank you. And then perhaps a final one. Do you have any comments on changes in the transaction market in your operating countries recently, or is it similar as it was three months ago?

No, that's a good question. Thanks. I forgot to touch upon that in the presentation. Summarizing, Sweden, very hot. Lots of institutional and private investors chasing grocery assets. Retail parks with grocery in it. We mostly only want the grocery, not the other things, the building materials or the gardening or the sporting goods. But there's a lot of investors, both institutional and also private individuals, both private equity and also more kind of syndicates looking at these assets in Sweden. We see the same thing in Denmark. very active market and the Netherlands is a very active market when it comes to real estate transactions in general and for our segments with various types of pooled capital buying a number of these grocery assets. So I'd say Most of the transactions happened, of course, before all the major turmoil in the markets from after the 2nd of April. But in general, lots of interest for supermarkets. And in my view, supermarkets are and should be one of the most resilient sectors when it comes to the trade wars and other things happening because they're high yielding, they're stable tenants. Everyone needs to eat, to buy food, the small liquid assets. or can be smaller. It's the ones we target and should be a very interesting property segment for many going forward.

Okay, thank you. That is all from me.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Vencilia from Kempen. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning, Christian and P. Helena. I hope you had a wonderful Christmas break. A couple of questions for me. First one, of course, I appreciate that you're selling non-core assets and vacant assets, but would you consider selling some more core assets as long as you can sell them at a premium?

The price is always of interest for us. We are a buy and hold player. We enjoy the cash flow and the stability of those cash flows. So yeah, go ahead and make us an offer and we'll see how we react. all right and then a bit more concretely i i think we we're on a trajectory where where we're creating a more diversified portfolio we're becoming a a larger company uh there are certain economies of scale uh both in diversification and also becoming slightly larger so so it would have to be something uh significant

of interest for us to to divest some of our core assets i think one should expect this more to look at kind of continuing to divest non-core assets and investing into more core assets all right and and then on the casco assets on the notice of termination is this something linked more specifically to tesco or is it just a coincidence so i'm asking is Or does Tesco want to be the owner of its assets? Or is it more a similar story that they can just plan to build or they can build a store nearby?

Yeah, I think that there's no, in my view, there's no cross read that this happened to be Tesco. This is a normal course of business for a grocer. I was seven years at Ica Real Estate, as you know. And sometimes you close a store because you want a bigger store. Sometimes there's some new infrastructure in a town, a new roundabout, which is a slightly better retail location for what you're planning as a grocer in that specific location. Perhaps you move to a... a demographic location which is closer to your price strategy. If you're a high-end or a low-end, the discounted maybe demographics change and income changes in the local markets. There's always a bit of movement and I think these are examples of that. They're doing something else in those locations. And as mentioned in the store that Kesco did leave, we could immediately sell it to another grocer for them to open their own store. When it comes to Keske, they both lease, of course, with us, almost 150 assets. They own some of their assets. They own through the joint venture, which they had with AMF and Ilmarinen, which they now have with Ilmarinen and their own association, their retail association. So they own and let, just as many grocers do.

All right, and then maybe just one more of a clarification question. On the like for like, I see that the vacancy impact is minus 2%, but then, of course, if I look at your vacancy, and I know it's a snapshot and impacted by the foreign states acquisition, but then, as you mentioned earlier, the Nordic vacancy is more or less stable, so then one doesn't really match the other. Could you...

I mean, both in Q3 and in Q4, that figure was 1.9% and now it's 2%. So it's fascinating. very very stable so to say um and so it's not a dramatic jump in any way you can say uh so overall uh it's it's stable in the nordics and on the um comparable portfolio as you can see um so no yeah so in the quarter not much happened 0.1 percentage points exactly

okay so this is more from let's say q2 last year yes exactly that that figure that that's comparing the the earnings capacity first of january 2025 i'm sorry first of april 2025 with first of april 2024. And in 2024, we had another number of rental guarantees, for example, in Denmark, which ran out and thereby create vacancies. And those are the rental guarantees which we knew at some point this would be extremely difficult to let. So we knew that already when we purchased that portfolio in Denmark.

Okay, very clear. Thank you for all the answers.

Thank you.

Great, thank you.

As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad. There are no more phone questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions or closing comments.

Yeah, we have no written questions, but we have one. Well, we have one question regarding the presentation. This will, of course, be available on the website. Sorry for the echo that some has, but you can listen in on the presentation on our website shortly later on today. It will be available.

Great. Well, thank you everyone for joining us today and all the best for a continued 2025. Thank you.

Thank you.

Bye.