Eltel AB (publ)

Good morning and a warm welcome to this presentation of LTEL's results for the second quarter 2025. My name is Alexandra Kjernlund. I'm the communications director for LTEL. And by my side are Håkan Dahlström, president and chief executive officer of LTEL, and Tarja Leikas, chief financial officer of LTEL. Welcome. These guys will be running the show and presenting the results to you while I'll be monitoring questions towards the end of the conference. And you can already now start asking your questions via the webcast or via the phone. I'll be back with some more instructions. But with that, let's move to the next slide and handing over to you, Håkan and Tarja.

Thank you Alexandra. Good morning and welcome also from my behalf. I'm delighted to see that we are able to report the eight consecutive quarters of improved profitability. And also important is that all segments are contributing to that improved profitability. So that's something that I think is really important, that we are consistent in this steady improvement and the structured improvement work. Starting on the top, talking a bit about net sales. It's of course not great to see that the net sales decreased by close to 7% in the second quarter. Sweden is the greatest. exception here, with great growth in Sweden. And it's good to see that both power and communication are contributing to the net sales development of the Swedish business. In Finland, where we had a peak of the fiber to the home rollout last year, and there's a much lower level of activity in the fiber rollout this year, we see also a decline on the net sales and in the Finnish market it's clear that the market is going from rollout to densification and more focus on multi-dwelling unit for the continuation of the fiber. Also more money is moving towards the mobile side of communication. Power where we saw a big impact in during 24 in Finland due to the new regulation of distribution. We see some pickup of the activity as we reported in the later part of 24 and that have continued into 25 but not to the level where we were before the new regulation. So more activity but I have to conclude that it was a slow quarter in the Finnish market. Norway, down 18% on net sales as expected. The ending contract that was ended in the beginning of this year is of course impacting significant Norwegian business on the net sales side. Denmark, Germany. Also there, very slow quarter, both in communication, but also a bit in power where the high activity level in, for example, energy storage doesn't really can compensate for the lower activity level in communication. Going to the gross profit, it's great to see that that is improved and coming up to 22.5 million compared to the 21.7 last year. And when we look at the speed of improvement here, we look at the last 12 months and we could see that there is a good improvement in the gross profit over time. Coming down to adjusted EBITDA, we improved with 2 million, and that is, of course, another important step in the right direction, one of many. So that's really nice to see. And in the last 12 months perspective, we have now reached an improvement of 12 million in a one year perspective. So I think that's something that we take with us going forward. And when we look a bit more on the operational side, we see that the public sector have a higher level of activity that is positively impacting us on the net safe side. And we expect more of this going forward. during the quarter, as I said, have to be viewed as a slow quarter. And we have comparatively a low TCV on 104 million euro compared to a quite strong quarter last year, where we had a significant contract summing up to more than 300 million. So, of course, the TCV, we would love to have a higher TCV in this second quarter. A few important contracts that I would like to highlight. Two frame agreements signed in the Swedish business with E.ON. They sum up to a value more than 40 million euro. And of course, it's an estimate, as you understand, since it is a frame agreement. But nevertheless, it's a very important part of the building up of the power business in Sweden. So this is something that we will start delivering on in the end of this year. If those two contracts behave or develop as we normally see it, at this time or somewhere during the third quarter next year, we will see significant revenue on that contract. But this takes time, as you understand, first until we start delivering and then when the ramp up is done and so. But somewhere a year from now, this will contribute nicely to the Swedish business. Data center area is an area that we have become more and more active during the last year. And here is an important contract taken in the Finnish business with Hyperco to a value of 16 million euro. And this is on the power side. So it's about a substation and a line on 110. but also 20 kilowatt connection to that data center. Important step, great to see. And when we look at this new business, we see that the progress is there. It's a steady business. We are increasing as we have predicted. And in the second quarter, we had 10% of our net sales coming from this new business. Since that part of the business have higher margin than what we have in what I call classic business, this is of course important, but also that we are able to attract new customers and being successful in a new market is of course extremely important for us. In the end of the second quarter, we also saw a refinancing of our debt portfolio, and I will ask Thalia to talk more about that in a second. But first, I would also like to mention that we, during the second quarter, appointed two managing directors, Claes Ellenberg for the Swedish business and Tuk Kazan for the Denmark-German business. So really nice to see that the team is in place and that we are ready for taking on the future here during the autumn. But Terje, please say something more about the refinancing.

I will. Thank you. And like Håkan already gave a good intro, please to start with some words about our recent refinancing. Going forward, the cornerstones of our financing will be and already are 130 million bond and 60 million now unutilized revolving credit facility. We entered the bond market and our entering to the bond market was well received. The offering was actually significantly oversubscribed, and that reflects strong investor confidence into our outlook. In addition, we completed a tender offer for our sustainability-linked hybrid bond. We accepted valid tenders worth of approximately 24 million. This financing package provides a stable long-term financing solution. It improves our liquidity. It provides operational flexibility and creates a solid platform for the future business growth. And then today's main topic, second quarter results for April to June. I am delighted to report this eighth consecutive quarter of year over year profitability improvement. And in fact, profitability has been improving now for two years. In net sales, we have mixed results across segments. Segment Sweden, which represents a third of our operations, will report major growth. Here we are driving group-level momentum, while other segments are experiencing decline in net sales. New business is now 10% of our total net sales. And this is indicating successful diversification. Then regarding profitability, all entities showed improvement in adjusted EBITDA. And here, Finland and Norway were leading the way. They were the strongest profitability gainers. And like mentioned and highlighted in the previous slide, second quarter in June, we finalized the comprehensive refinancing of the debt portfolio. And this is now the third year in a row that we are executing our strategy. And on this following slide, we illustrate the EBITDA and cross-profit development. Håkan already mentioned the highlights from here. So this is the eighth consecutive quarter of year-on-year adjusted EBITDA improvement. And all our segments are committed and they work hard to improve the profitability of our current business. And compared to last year, we report more than 12 million improvement in latest 12 months adjusted EBITDA. are segments first finland finland is now 42 percent of ltl group in the second quarter we saw eight percent decline in net sales that is reflecting a shift in market dynamics particularly in communications business the outcome was expected and the adjustments needed were already taken in the end of 24. The fiber rollout peaked in 24 and the pace has now slowed down leading to lower turnover in communications. The growth in power is being driven by new business, solar PV and data center. These are high potential areas where we are building strong momentum. Despite the top-line decline, profitability improved significantly. Adjusted EBIT rose to 3.5 million. That reflects margin improvements in both communication and power. And then second largest, Sweden. Sweden is now third of our operations. And here we are delighted to report 15% increase in net sales this quarter. That is marking the seventh consecutive quarter in growth and communication was There is growth both in communication, especially in communication, and in communication the driver was really robust demand from the public sector, and the power business was fuelled by new business, mainly solar PV. And this is the 13th quarter that we report year on year adjusted EBITDA improvement. That is a remarkable achievement. And I would say that underscores the operational discipline in Sweden. Then Denmark and Germany. This segment is now 17% of Eltel's operations. And here our segment net sales declined with 9%. The primary driver was drop in Denmark's communication business. Smart grids reported nice growth. Despite the top line decline, we achieved a profitability improvement with an adjusted EBITDA margin now 4.8%. This is another step forward in our financial performance. That is diligent financial management, ensuring cost control and margin protection. And then Norway. Norway is now 13% of our operations. And the second quarter net sales in Norway totaled 26 million. There is a decrease of six million compared to the same period last year. We have witnessed progress in new customer acquisition and importantly, new business is beginning to be visible in our net sales. While still negative, EBITDA improved. It improved from negative 3.1 to negative 1.6, and that indicates that our turnaround efforts are gaining traction. Our workforce in Norway is now approximately 220 fewer than a year ago, and that reflects the ongoing efforts to optimise the operations and align resources with the strategic priorities. And while the challenges still remain, the underlying trends, especially in new business and margin recovery, are encouraging. We remain focused on execution and long-term value creation. And then balance sheet, which faced some changes after the refinancing. Here we continue reporting solid progress. 25, like I mentioned earlier, this is the third year of our strategy execution. And in regards of networking capital, we have seen continued strength in networking capital development. It improved further from last year's negative 54, now to negative 59 million. And this is demonstrating our enhanced operational efficiency. And then leverage and net debt. The finalised refinancing has impacted both leverage and net debt figures, making a direct comparison between 2025 and 2024 slightly less straightforward. Approximately 24 million from the hybrid bond previously recorded under equity has now been reclassified as debt. Despite this, our strong financial performance has helped offset the impact. The net debt increased moderately from 128 million to 145. Similarly, leverage improved from 3.5 to 2.8. And even with the refinancing adjustment, on a comparable basis, leverage would have been 2.4. And then my presentation is closed with the financial targets, which we haven't changed. Adjusted EBITDA margin, 5%, annual growth between 2% and 4%, the leverage between 1.5% and 2.5%, and then dividend subject to leverage targets. Thank you.

Thank you, Tarja. Yes, and also our strategy, in short, as we always do. The first and most important part of our strategy is, of course, to improve the efficiency and profitability in what we call the current business, the classic business, where we have more than 20, 25 years of experience. diverse our business we have now in this strategy period worked a lot by broadening our customer base and we see great result in that but also so that we are moving into new and adjacent market so things where we could use the same competence a lot of the resources we have with some minor add-on we can also address new businesses like renewable energy and this i will show you as i normally do a few numbers on on the next slide But also the sustainability is, as we say, an integrated part of everything we do within Eltel. And we see clearly in the customer dialogue how this becomes more and more important. The development of our concept and commercial capabilities in Eltel is an ongoing process. Here, something that we always talk about, how to become more street smart and capable in every commercial aspect of our business. So the progress then in this strategy now. Operation Excellence, I think we can see here now eight quarters that we are having progress and success in the very operation excellent oriented part of our business and it's a lot about right-sizing adapting the organization to the demand of today and tomorrow and you see that broadly in elta's organization today where we have taking the actions quite early i would claim that we in the later part of last year so that the beginning of this year would be slower and have less activity level and that organization also have been adjusted accordingly. I think Finland is a good example of that. We have also increased our effort in automation and digitalization of our business. This is an area where we have not been up to date in some years and we now try to correct that. So this is really good and very exciting exercise that we do. The cross-border collaboration in particularly new business area is important for us so that we are much faster learning and getting to the right competence level in different areas because the new business is, as we say, it's new business for us and it is very expensive to do mistakes. So we of course do mistakes, it's always allowed to do mistakes, but we don't repeat them. We learn from each other and we collaborate cross-border to avoid doing the same mistake twice. On the commercial excellence side, I have talked since the later part of 2022 about that we have a new ambition, a higher ambition when it comes to all the different types of commercial questions like pricing, invoicing conditions, payment conditions. And it takes of course time, as we have tried to explain before, to get the project and the contract portfolio transformed into the new conditions. We have talked about this before and for a year ago we made an update and we also showed the same picture as you see on the right side here. Showed that a year ago and at that time we had an estimate of that 44% of everything, all the activity that was closed during 24 would have an impact with the new commercial terms and we landed the actual numbers very, very spot on the 44%. Then, when we now see in this beginning of this year, we see that those activities we do for digitalization and automation, introducing a new ERP system and so in the operation, this give us a reason to focus harder to close down activities that has been with us for some time and try to close as many as possible to not have them with us in the next generation of our system. These have increased the amount of old projects that have been closed in the beginning of 2025 in relation to our estimate. So an updated estimate of this year is that we believe that we're going to have 66% of all the closed projects this year impacted by the new commercial terms. However, this doesn't mean that the speed of our improvement would be reduced. I would say rather the opposite. So it is a benefit for us to be able to close more and more of them. So I think that during next year we will reach the 90% that we said from the very beginning. So great progress in this and we see also the effect in the follow-up of all our activities that everything that we have signed since late 22 or beginning of 23 has also this commercial effect both when it comes to pricing but also invoicing and payment term and this is of course positively impacting both our gross profit but also cash flow and networking capital and as Taja told you We reached a new level on the minus 59 here, 5 million better than a year ago. And I have to say we were quite happy last year when we were at 54. So well done by the organization there. Also this broadening the customer base, and here I would like to... put some attention at the public sector and what we call public infra where we see in the whole nordic that more activities is now discussed and more and more is coming ahead of us this is of course partly impacted by the geopolitical turbulence that we see around us and in our society unfortunately however it has in the business side a positive impact on the tel it's more and more actors in the public sector that want to do business with eltel but in the second quarter it was a slow quarter when it comes to total contract value and net sales with the exception of sweden i would say but i quite happy when i read through and make analysis, talking to our sales organization in the different units about the pipeline and the way we are interacting with our customers. So I think that we have all the opportunity in the world to see a quite strong autumn here. On the improved profitability, we talked a bit about that already, but I think it's worth emphasizing that the gross profit, another step in the right direction, and the last 12 months development, I'm really happy to see that we have a speed of 12 million per year. So really nice to see. but also that the new and adjacent business is taking off and particularly solar PV and data centers when we look at the net sales part of this. However when we look in the market we see that there is also a bit of a shift from discussing about solar PV where it seems like those who will take that type of investment decision nowadays they have a bit harder to get the business case together they start to become more and more keen to talk about energy storage instead, or a complement where we both see solar and energy storage in the same solution. Data center, a very interesting area for the whole Nordic, as it is so that we have a lot of energy, of course, clean energy, green energy, will make Nordic an interesting area for the global market of data center. So here we see a perfect fit for ELTEL and the data center, meaning that we have great use of our competence both in communication and in power when there is a situation where you need to establish a data center. So I think we will hear more about this going forward, but in this quarter we had 10% of the net sales from this area. So 10%, yes, it is 100% growth if you compare year over year. So with that said, I think we are ready to take your questions.

All right. Thank you. Thank you for a nice presentation. Thank you. We have quite a few questions coming in from the web, but I think we should start with the telephone questions. And if you still want to dial in, you just do that and you press five on your keypad. So do we have any callers online? Okay, then let's turn directly to the web questions. And we have four questions from Markku Moilainen, Nordea. So thank you for those. Let's start with this one then. In Q1, sales were relatively flat year on year, but sales in Sweden grew. In Q2, with the exception of Sweden, sales go down. How should we look at the rest of the year? Is the negative trend going to persist in these other countries? What's the reason for the negative development? Has the competitive environment changed? Or is the focus on profitability now showing on the headline numbers?

We have a priority in margin above volume. That's the case. Absolutely, we are committed to that and we stick to that. But I would claim that that is not really the reason that we have a decline on the net sales in the second quarter or that it was flat in the first quarter. I think that the quarter as such has been quite slow. We see less call-offs in the frame agreement. We see less decision about contract overall. But on the net sales part, it is the lower volume in the call-offs that is impacting the net sales. I think that's not unique for ELTEL. I think this is a part of the market where we are. It's a bit of slow or difficult market, however you would like to phrase it. To predict the future, I mean, that's something that I normally say, that's for sure you know that you're going to be wrong. So I will sort of try to avoid that. But I think that we see We see the underlying very strong trends in everything from digitalization and electrification. Data center is a very fast moving area. So I'm optimistic, but I don't want to promise anything about the future.

But some tailwinds, some tailwinds.

Yeah, the megatrends give us, of course, tailwind, absolutely. The increased interest from the public sector to develop more and more resilient, more robust networks or infrastructure is, of course, good for us. We have a new agreement with defence in many countries. I mean, late April, we announced a defence agreement in Norway, as an example. Last year, we had more than two in the Swedish. Yes, it's going in that direction.

Yes, exactly. And in line with that, we will get back to Marcus' questions. But Kristoffer Janell from Indres had a similar question. He asked his question, it's like this. NATO allies recently agreed to raise defense spending targets. Defense spending targets.

Yep.

from 2% to 5% of GDP by 2035, which will likely result in accelerating investments in critical infrastructure. How is LTEL positioned to capture potential opportunities arising from increased defence-related investments across the Nordics?

I would claim that we are very well positioned. major part of our market we have the contract in place and in some markets we still need to to win a contract that gives sort of the platform for being a part of this but if you take the swedish market as an example we have announced two very important contract with swedish defense material administration and the swedish defense the air bases for example so i would say that yes we are really well positioned. Also, as I just mentioned, Norway. We have cooperation with defense also in Finland and Denmark, but the largest cooperation out of today is in Sweden.

Some in Norway, you say, and back to Marko and Nordea. How should we think about Norway business? You mentioned that the restructuring program was finalized during the quarter. Is the cost level now sustainable given your expectation of sales development in the country?

Yes, I would claim that it is and that we have done what we should do on the cost side. Focus is since some time now turning towards the net sales and the sort of the revenue side of the equation. So for sure, Norway going forward is all about new business, new contract, broadening the customer base. But the commercial aspect is what will have our attention going forward in Norway. The cost side we have dealt with.

Good. I believe we have a question coming in on the phone conference. So should we take that now?

The next question comes from Adrian Jelani from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead. Good morning, Adrian.

Good morning. A couple of questions from mine. I guess, first of all, on the comments you make with some customers delaying investment decisions due to higher uncertainty, would you say that's a general effect you see over the whole business, or is that something that's more clear in certain customer groups or geographies?

I would say that it's broadly so. Maybe the telco operators are not so impacted. Here we see that there is more a long trend where you see Finland has one development where sort of the fiber to the home rollout came later than the other Nordic countries. But now that has peaked during last year. We see more for densification MDUs and more money going towards mobile, and this is not so impacted by this decision-making. I would say the telco operators are taking the decision as we expect them to do. Also, the dialogue with them is very good. In other Nordic countries, there is more and more interest of the fibre, partly, I would believe partly by the interest in public infra to have a more resilient and more robust infrastructure so we see more money going towards fiber and and that is of course good for us but this take times from from that there is sort of discussions until it is net sales okay makes sense uh and then just on the on the danish and germany or the new segment i guess how has the

Have there been any operational hiccups? If so, will those continue or has it been a smooth integration?

This has not been an extremely strong integration. Germany is operating as one unit within Denmark-Germany. We have still that management in place there. The German business is very much about smart grid. We have also smart grid business in Denmark, so they're very easy to understand each other. And I would say that this has gone very well. We see the synergies and opportunity to learn and develop together. So I'm very optimistic about that. And you also see the margin that they fit together, so to say.

Okay, yeah. And then perhaps more for Paria on the leverage ratio, I understand that leverage coming up as more of an accounting thing as the hybrid bond was, you know, booked as equity. But can you give some comments on, with the new setup, when you sort of expect to be back within the leverage target again?

Well, the driver is the financial performance. And as we improve our financial performance, we improve also leverage. And this is a priority going forward. Yes, we will have more focus on top line, but the priority is profitability.

coming quarters or are you no nice try one final one you mentioned in norway that the cost side is more or less done and now it's more about improving the revenue side given that the the communication side which has been your strongest side in norway historically given that that's still weak what's what do you see is going to sort of replace that mainly

Well, the market in Norway is not so different than the Nordic market, and we believe in the Nordic market and the Norwegian market. So we talk about broadening the customer base. What we have done for less than one big customer in Norway, we can of course do that for many more customers. So this broadening of the customer base is extremely important in Norway. We of course have some discussions also about when is it right timing to start thinking about power in Norway. Today we do very very very small activities in power in Norway so I would say our Norwegian business of today is communication. But at a certain point when we think that is right we will most likely also make a move towards power also in Norway as we do in the other countries. But first, get back on the decent profitability, broadening the customer base, then we could start thinking about something new. But we will do the homework on profitability first.

Understood. In that case, that's all for me, so thank you. Thank you, Adrian.

Okay, going back to the battery question of questions from Nordea. A reflection from Marco Moilainen on inventories. Your inventories have increased despite sales coming down. Are you preparing for some project startups with inventory build-up, or what explains that?

That is a normal timing topic. We have a couple of major projects that are now building inventory, but there's no drama there.

Okay. And final question from Nordea. Do you have some targets for new business in the midterm? How large in the midterm? How large the new business is going to be by 2030? So short and long.

Yeah, but 2030, I don't have sort of that type of outlook. But when we look at our strategy, we talk about three years. And when we... looked at the strategy in the beginning of this year and made an update we have that view that we're going to be able to have 20 of our business in a new and adjacent business in the end of that strategy period so that would be like in the end of 27 we believe that the size of new business will be 20 or something above that

Okay, thank you. And then we have a couple of questions, more questions from Kristoffer Janell Indres. Working capital tie-ups were quite high for a second quarter. Would you say that this is a timing issue considering the strong release in Q1? Or have you experienced any delays in projects?

No, this is normal, normal fluctuations. So this has not been a topic within the organization.

Okay. It's more our seasonality. Yeah.

Could you elaborate on the revenue decline in Finland this quarter, considering the short-term tailwinds from the Taleri Energia project, the solar PV project in Finland? Are you noticing reduced investments from customers in general, or are the fibre-to-the-home volumes coming down faster than anticipated?

Well, it is driven by the lower volume in Fibre to the Home. But if you go back and in the report, you can see on page 25 where we report the revenue per different quarters. And there you could see that we had, don't shoot me now, but I think 62 million... in revenue, Finland, first quarter, 24, and then we did 92 million in the second quarter, so 50% up from first quarter to second quarter in the Finnish business. That was driven by Fiber to the Home and the peak in Fiber to the Home during last year. Now, when we compare the second quarter of this year with those 92 million last year, To me, it is not a big surprise that there is a decline. And you also see at the size of the organization, the Finnish organization of today is roughly 200% less than we were a year ago. So in the autumn, we saw that this will happen on the volume. We adjusted the organization. We have prepared for that lower volume. And due to that, also Finland is doing better on profitability this year than last year. But the reason that it is a decline, yes, it's the fiber to the home is absolutely majority of that. So we still do fiber to the home in Finland, absolutely. But 24, it was an exceptional year with really high volume and revenue.

And moving to Denmark and Germany, the Denmark and Germany segment, what were the main factors behind the quarter over quarter margin decline in that segment, especially given its historically stable performance between Q1 and Q2?

Q1 and Q2. We had this one-off in Denmark in the first quarter this year. I would say that the first quarter, 2025, was stronger than we expected. We see an effect of that now in the second quarter.

And in Q1 and Q2 2024, there was a different segment structure.

Yes, 2024 is another thing.

Yeah, because that was the historical stable performance between Q1 and Q2, but the fact is that the segment structure was different.

No, we have restated that.

We have restated that, also on page 25.

Okay, page 25. Good page to turn to.

That's well spotted, but this is... The only thing that comes to mind for me is that we had an exceptionally strong margin in Denmark during Q1 2025. But...

Okay, and finally a question from Berros from LFDE. Good morning, Berros. As you mentioned, in your markets, tailwinds seem quite strong, but organic growth is still very difficult. What are the main explanations? Problem of offer, commercial strategy, pricing, competitive landscape. That's the first question. Maybe we should take that first and then he has a question regarding the EBIT margin target.

We have a very broad business and it would be to simplify too much to just say one reason here. I think we see many different. In some areas, like the classic business, we see that the telco operators have, during the last one and a half year or something, used less money in investment. And that is impacting us, of course. Then you have the whole spectrum up to new green energy or renewable energy, where decision makings have become difficult for our customer. So there we perceive delay. And of course, if you then go to areas like distribution in power, like I mentioned before, the regulation in Finland that came in pact started by January 24. that made it difficult for the distributor in Finland to do investment. We saw a lot of money go away and they have slowly coming back. Now when they start to coming back, there is quite fierce price competition on those few cases that are coming back. We stay cool in this and we have our priorities very clear. We will go for margin and not volume and we stick to that. I have a very strong confidence in that the power business will be very good, will be very solid. You just have to stay out of problem. And that's for sure. Stay cool in these procurement processes. It will come opportunities. I'm not worried about that.

And a final question from Jose. Regarding your 5% EBIT margin target, could you give us some more colors about the main drivers of this improvement and when do you target to reach this 5%?

We have an internal time plan for this that we have said that we will not communicate that externally. But we have divided the task how to reach the 5%. Each country manager have their own portion of that. And we see that this is... As you could read in our strategy, the biggest contributor is profit improvement by operation and commercial excellence in our classic business. There is no reason why we wouldn't be able to reach our target only by that parameter. But we also want to diversify our business by broadening the customer base. This is also an opportunity for us to gain margin, have better commercial terms. So that's also a contributor. And then the third, new business. We need new business for securing our business long term. And they are also an opportunity to have higher margin, better cash flow. One part of that is that we would have more material. So if I make two examples, to extreme, you have an energy storage solution, very big portion of that value in that contract is about material, where we are able to have an add-on margin on that. The opposite is a classic telco installation, where the telco operators are buying more or less all material, and we have a possibility to charge for our time, time and tool and our fleet, but that's more or less it. So very small impact by material in that part. The opposite, energy storage, and then you have all the other areas that we are doing in between. So the more new business we do, the more contribution we get from material, but also higher margin in our time that we spend on the project or the activities. So efficiency, commercial excellence, diverse customer base and new businesses, and they will contribute in that order.

Yeah, great. I hope that clarifies a bit for you. So I think we have concluded the call with that question. And so I would like to thank you, Håkan and Tarja. Thank you. And thank you for watching, listening. We will present our third quarter results on October 30th. So I hope you will join us then. But feel, of course, free to reach out meanwhile to any one of us if you have any questions. Thank you.

Thank you very much.