Enea AB (publ)

I would like to say good morning. My name is Anders Lidberg and I'm the new CEO of INEA. The new acting CEO of INEA and some of you might remember I had this role in eight years or during eight years from 2011 to 2019. And since then I've been the chairman of the board. My last interim report before this one was Q1 2019. We called it a new year, new records. And we had 240 some million Swedish in revenues. We had operating margins north of 25%. We had 41% non-organic growth. And we had operating cash flow in the quarter of 100 million Swedish, or to be precise, 93 million Swedish. So it was a great quarter to end with. And when the new management team was off to a great start with a good Q2 2019, and closing a deal with a large key account in Europe valued up to 2 million euros, it felt good to be in the chairman position. And during the last four years, the company has also developed well from a strategic perspective. We have established ourselves in the cybersecurity market, and our footprint there is significantly stronger than it was in 2019. And if you compare Enea to the Enea I started with back in 2011, the changes are dramatic. It's a completely different company, and the things that remain the same is the name and the headquarters. And those changes I will come back to later during the presentation. But today the numbers are very different and it is with mixed feelings that I'm sitting here in this role. So I am proud and I feel good about the changes that we've done with Enea during the last 10 years. Without these changes no one would be dialing in to this call. It's questionable if we would have had this call at all if the changes wouldn't have happened. But I don't feel good with the lackluster performance of the company during the last period. We're not happy with that at all. And I feel very bad for the shareholders that have supported us down to this point. But I also feel a bit sad about the changes that the board was forced to do at the beginning of Q3. But more so, I feel a huge responsibility and that's the responsibility I share, we're feeling I share with the rest of the board to start taking steps to put Enea back on track again. And to be frank, I actually feel enthused to start doing that as soon as possible. And with that, I would like to walk you through some of the key events during the second quarter. And we were off to a rough start in Q2. That project that we closed third quarter, beginning of third quarter 29, we got the information from the customer beginning of the second quarter that they would wanted to discontinue that project. It came as a big surprise to us in the beginning of this quarter. It's, of course, in these economic environments, not huge. You know, it's not unheard of that things are discontinued. And this is part of doing global business with innovative software. So things happen. But this had quite some dramatic effect on Enea and on our numbers in Q2. First of all, we had to take a reservation of already booked revenues of 41 million that hurt the quarter. And with that also, with the discontinuation of the project, we lost some expected revenues in Q2 and going forward. And the expected revenues in Q2 from this project was around 30 million. I'm talking Swedish now. And so with this news, it was clear that the business case for this product line was changed. But before just taking a few days to change the business case that would have impact on the operation, we wanted to do a thorough strategic review of our telecom operations. And we started that early Q2, and we informed the market about this when we informed about the fact that we would take this reservation. This strategic review focused on the market opportunities and the outlook within this space of our portfolio. We focused on our own product development, our own roadmap, as well as our go-to-market capabilities within this space. And we knew we had to do an impairment test on the intangible assets and capitalized R&D we kept on the balance sheet for this product. We did this together with the management team, or the management team did this, and we spoke obviously with our accountants, and it became clear to us that we also needed to increase WAC due to the increased interest rate. So the business case, whatever the business case would be, would have to carry an increased WAC, and the WAC we're using in the case now is 11.5% for the impairment test. The new long-term business case we did and pretty quickly it became clear or evident to us that the only thing we changed in the business case that's supporting the goodwill we have is this one product. One product. All the rest is unchanged and this one product The only thing we've done is to sharpen the focus of this product to go after the handful of customers and prospects we have in mid-term that would like to buy this 5G product we call the NDL or network data layer. So it's a huge change from a numbers perspective, but it is one product. of the portfolio of roughly 10 products that we have in our business at this very point in time. This product or the portfolio, the Telkom portfolio is developed in many different R&D sites with the leading sites being Belfast and one in Croatia. And before this change, we also had the site in India. We have two sites in India. The one is for our security products and for our security services. That's untouched. But the R&D site developing this product, we have closed during the first half year. And we're now you know, we might have to change some locks and give away some keys, but all in all the change has happened. And the reason for that is that we actually started this late last year as a initiative to improve profitability and margins in the company based on the fact that we were not pleased with the results of 2022. So that was something we already started. The changes we've done, the changes we already planned and the changes related to the fact that this project is discontinued will impact some 70 positions within the company. Around 50 of our own employees and 20 consultants have been forced to leave the company. But these changes have happened in good order. At the beginning of Q3 we also changed the CEO of INEA. The financial impact of these changes are, as I said, significant. In Q2, we have taken 65 million Swedish in reservations. That's the 41 I discussed on the last slide. And also a 24 million Swedish reservation for bad debt. It's actually not related to the discontinuation of the product. it's related to a deal we've done with a customer in Northern Africa, and we have difficulties to get dollar out of that country. So to be conservative, we've made a reservation of 24 million of that. That doesn't mean we're not going to try to get the money and we're still carrying some of it on the balance sheet but again good order and in discussions with the accountants we have agreed to do that so 65 million in reservations in the quarter we've also added 20 million in non-recurring costs for these changes in the quarter and we have said that we will take another 10 million in Q3 to facilitate the programs that I've discussed The impairment based on the nude business case is a huge amount. It's 522 million Swedish, of which 450 million is Goodwill and 107 million is CapEx. But let's also be clear that this is non-cash items. So none of the above is impacting cash. What is more so you can argue impacting cash going forward is that this project, we expected more business from this project. So Q3 is hurt from expected new business that didn't come through with approximately 13 million. So this has the program has actually a 60 million positive cash flow full year starting 2024. We will see some positive cash flow effects already in 2023 but the 60 million is the full year number that we expect from 2024. But very important note here is that While this program has a 60 million positive cash flow effect, it actually has a 13 million negative effect OPEX in Q2. And the reason for that is that we've taken down our own employees with 50 people and consultants with 20 people. So in total, 70 people we're not anymore paying salaries for. But some of the people we are still having on this, and we do have some 100 plus people working on our telecom portfolio going forward, are now in the OPEX. Some of them were actually before in CAPEX. So 30 million increase of OPEX due to the fact that we have lowered capitalization of warranty. So it's good news from a cash perspective, and it won't show on the EBITDA results going forward, but it will show on the EBITDA. going forward. So with that I would like to introduce another new person to you. It's our new acting CFO Ulf Stigberg. I would like to say a few things here also before I give you the word. So Ulf is not new to Enea. Ulf has been with Enea now for some four years. He was the former CFO of one of the acquisitions we've done, and that is a pattern that's very prevailing within Enea. We don't do acquisition and get rid of the management team from the acquisitions. We get rid, we do the acquisitions, and we try to slowly integrate the acquisitions while priority number one, taking care of the revenues that these experts are generating within their own company. And then gradually we're integrating and taking the best talents from these acquisitions and making them part of our management team. So just You know, in the management team today, we now have Ulf from one of the acquisitions. We have Roland Steiner running R&D. He's from another acquisition. We have Jean-Pierre Curie running another piece of our organization. He's been 10 years with the company coming from an acquisition. And then we've mixed that with some new talent. So it's not, you know, complete changes in the management team. It's an evolution of people that really know the business well. So with that, Ulf, I would like to hand over to you.

Let's get into the financial figures.

Net sales for the quarter was 208 million compared to 217 last year. The six months net sales was 456 compared to 427 last year, a slight increase over the six months. If we look at the currency adjusted growth, it was negative 10% for the quarter and for the six first months it was positive 1%. Between the network solution and OS we see a decrease of minus eight versus minus 18% for the period. Okay, next slide. EBITDA margin in quarter two was 24% compared to 33% last year. This was affected mainly by non-recurring cost items in Q2 that amounted 84.6 million related to restructuring costs and allowance for the adopts for debt that Anders described earlier. As a result of lower share software we also see a lower gross margin of 3% in the quarter. Operating margin operating expenses increased mainly due to less capitalization and impacts of foreign currency changes but the real spend has decreased with 9 million for the quarter, which is important to point out. Can jump to the next slide, please. So, 1% adjusted EBIT margin in Q2 compared to 13% last year, and the impacts of the Six hundred and seven million item included the goodwill and the capex white towns affecting this figure greatly. The earnings per share was negative twenty eight point seven for the quarter, which is, of course, a very, very low figure, but explained greatly by by this non-recurring items for quarter two. Next slide, please. Looking at the growth in the network solution category, we can see a great support and maintenance growth. This shows the underlying customer base. We are increasing the support and maintenance value year after year. And this shows a very stable customer base for these network solutions. Important for the company going forward. And also we can see on the license, it shows the importance of having a new larger customer project in the period.

So thank you for that, Ulf. I wanted to show you these two slides. The first, the last one that we've talked about, and this one that I would have spent some time on. It's coming directly from the interim report. And I think it's really important. On the earlier slide, you saw growth in support and maintenance. so based on the deals we've done in network solutions based on the software we have and the usage of the software we're seeing an increase in that and per year per quarter the percentage of recurring revenues i.e support and maintenance in this case is growing on this slide and please note that the scale is different It's a smaller, you know, we've increased the size, but the numbers are smaller. You see operating system. This is the business we had in 2011. And on top of this business, we had global services that we did a very successful sale of last year on good multiples and, you know, to further focus the NEO on software. So this is the software we had in 2011. It now represents only 13% of net sales on a sliding scale. And what's happened here is exactly what we predicted some 10 years ago, that operating systems are shrinking and we need to increase the portfolio with new things and we had the decision to make okay do we do this organically want to develop new product or do we do it through acquisitions and the various you know easy decision for us was we don't want to invest everything in own product development and bet on the fact that we can develop a great product and have the capabilities to sell it instead we wanted to acquire successful smaller companies put them together and develop a stronger company and that's exactly what we've done and we've come a long way doing that the one good news on this slide beside the fact that this is exactly what we predicted is that with the contract and the deal we did in q2 or we took a big chunk of future license revenues in a deal that secured the long-term support and maintenance so we now have with this customer a very long but secure tail of support and maintenance for our operating system so it continues to be a good element in our operation because it's a profitable element in our operation. But surely it's not something that we can build our future business on. So back to you Ulf.

Okay thanks. Despite the challenges we had in the products and described earlier in the presentation here, we have a very strong financial position. The cash flow from operations in quarter two was 77 million compared to 73 previous year. The net cash flow after investments and financing activities was positive 20 million for the quarter compared to 67 last year. The cash balance has improved to 291 million compared to 218 last year and the net debt 220 compared to 359 last year and we have an unutilized credit facility of 380 million Swedish. This gives us a good financial KPI with equity ratio of 64% and a net debt to EBITDA of 0.89. The board has initiated a buyback program based on the facts and situation we have. Buyback program of own shares. We are using the mandate from the AGM and the program has a mandate of 10% of the outstanding shares. And this program starts now and runs until October 25th this year. And the program will be carried out by a credit institution in the safe harbor regulation.

All right. Thank you. And now it's my turn to say something about our way forward and the financial outlook. And I would like to take to start with a screenshot of our website. If you go into our website and you click on solutions, this will pop up. And, you know, no surprise, that's our solutions. That's what we're doing business on every quarter and what we're trying to do new business on every day. One of these solutions is called network data layer. One of this solution of super interesting products is what we ran into problems with in the beginning of the second quarter. And also if you would look at our customer base, we have more than 100 customers. One discontinued the project. And this product that we still keep, that we still invest quite a significant number of R&D hours in, we have a handful of prospects going forward. It's also so that we say, you know, if you would look at a website and you look at our material and you would ask me what's the focus of Enea, I would say it's Telecom applications and cybersecurity. Telecoms and cybersecurity. What drives the growth, the traffic growth in telecoms? The growth that is more than 20% annually, according to Ericsson, and this is the latest report from this year, it's video. Video drives the traffic growth in the telecom network. And what's one of the number one products or one of the top three, four products in Enea from a revenue perspective? It's something we called traffic management. It helps operators to increase speed in the network without investing in new hardware. So it's a software from Enea that helps increase traffic in the network without buying new hardware. So it's a great product. It's part of, you know, this slide is also really interesting to come back four years later, because this is the same type of picture that we saw four years ago. And it's the same type of slide that we used when making the decision to go into traffic management. video is driving our traffic management is the best product out there to scale traffic based on video sometimes i've heard that some of our our investors are asking we are saying 5g is late and you're looking at your phone and saying hey but you know it i i'm i'm on 5g And it's very clear that since you go into some major cities today, you have 5G on your phone. And the realities are that, you know, both those statements or both of those perspectives are valid. When we're talking 5G and saying that 5G is late, we're saying that the 5G core network is late. That's the network or the engine of the network. So when you're seeing 5G on your phone today, it's because you're connecting to 5G radio network system that is connecting to a 4G core network. That's 80% of the case. Only 20% of the operators out there have 5G. change the core networks to 5G. And we have not only the network data layer product that's focused on the 5G core, we also have 5G applications focusing on 5G. And 80% of that market is still ahead of us. The other piece of INEA, it's now some 40% of our business is focusing on cybersecurity. And it's very clear to most of you that cybersecurity is very important in this day and age. It's important in the war in Ukraine. It's important in your everyday life. Because in your everyday life, the risk of being you know fraudulent behavior has increased significant and both those two aspects of cyber security both the consumer side or the messaging side as well as the the signaling side or the the more threat type cyber security we have solutions to to help handle and You know, this is not just a screenshot from the website or some, you know, words based on a couple of slides. This is actually guiding our everyday life. So this is some snapshots from activities we've been doing during the last quarter or two. And we have been awarded the best security product by Cyber Defense Magazine. And on this picture here is one of the gentlemen I discussed earlier. It's Jean-Pierre Curie. He works out of our Paris office. He's been with us for 10 years, and he's running our DPI operations. So a person that knows Enea very well, been with us for a long time, and knows the cyber security product space so well that we've actually been awarded best product. We work with Telenor on telecom issues. We've been part of a Financial Times article on international investigation into mobile security. We've been expert speakers in South America. And we've been invited by a EU initiative to work on cyber security matters within the telecom space. the EU take the decisions that were discussed during these meetings, that would significantly increase the opportunities for us doing business going forward. With little hesitation, I can reiterate the long-term ambition of INEA, and that is clearly to generate double-digit growth within these parts of our business, the business we call Network Solutions. And it is a pure software business. We are selling the same software, even though we have 10 different products, but it's not solutions that is you know unique per customer is the same software sold over and over again to new and more customers that generates healthy gross margins and for us to have the you know to have the ambition of doing a 35 percent plus EBITDA margin remains unchanged The one thing that's very similar from a financial perspective is cash flows. In 2011, we had 93 million in operating cash flows. This quarter, we have 70 million in operating cash flow. So a well-run software company is generating healthy cash flows. Based on capitalization, based on depreciation, these things might change the EBIT margin, but a well-run software company delivers great cash flows. Having said this, it is clear that Q3 will be challenging. We've had a lackluster performance during the first six months. We're working in a difficult economic environment. And so we say that Q3 will be challenging in terms of growth and profit. But we do expect strong cash flows for the year 2023. So with that, I would like to say thank you and open up for potential questions.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial star 5 on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial star 5 again on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Jesper von Coe from Redeye. Please go ahead.

Hi, gentlemen, and thanks for the clear presentation. All right, so let's just start with the Q3 that you mentioned just here in the end. That will be challenging. Is there anything that you refer to specifically except for the one of 10 million?

So thank you for the question. I am saying that 2023 will be challenging when we add up the numbers for 2023. It will not look pretty. And the reason for that is a bad first half year and a bad economic environment. The bad economic environment, macroeconomic environment is not changing in Q3. And you know, I cannot predict that environment better than you probably not you know I cannot predict that better than anyone else so we are working in a headwind when it comes to that that is impacting a large portion of our customer base mainly the operators and it makes new business and more difficult and it takes time Also, we're going through some changes in the company, and I don't think we will, you know, with a snap of a finger, all of a sudden start generating great revenues and bottom line expectations, bottom line numbers up to expectations. that will take some time to to see in in the result but in the in the quarter but it's not based on the fact that we're having a you know a change in the product portfolio or change in the roadmap it is you know based on small operating you know it's based on the macro economic environment that's not good let's face it it's not good and you can read it from all our competitors that have also released numbers they are not producing great great quarterly numbers. But it's also from an internal perspective or micro perspective, we've done some significant investments in new sales in Enea. If you look at their sales and management OPEX, it's up quite Quite a lot since the same period last year. That new team of people need to be trained, they need to be managed, they need to be guided, and they need to be incentivized in a way that they, in this tough macroeconomic environment, can do great business from a micro-INEA perspective. This will take some time.

clear um thanks thanks for a good answer and yeah i was i was also wondering about like what actions do you see needed to get the organic growth going for the network solution you mentioned these um yeah the significant investment in the health organization and like the training management and incentives for them but and anything more that you that you'd like to have no i uh so the um

I think a company or quarter results and a full year result is dependent on the magnitude of small daily decisions. I've been here now in this role for not a bit over two weeks and I've taken a multitude of decisions already. Every day we're taking decisions and some of these decisions will eventually lead to a result at the end of September that we will present in October. Now we're also living on a multitude of decisions that were taken before these 14 days. That's also part of the results in Q3, but you know now when we're taking maybe slightly different types of decisions we will gradually see a change during the quarters to come and the changes here you've already seen an example of so this you know I speak again about the NDL project product it is one of ten products it has less than a handful customers and we have a handful prospects including the existing customers but what we're doing now is instead of taking the approach let's increase or in this band further and let's go after an even stronger bigger market we're saying okay facts of the matter is we have low evidence of new immediate sales we have evidence of one customer pulling away from a product project let's Lower the capitalized R&D on this product and go after the ones that we have a bigger chance of winning. The same with the sales team that we will manage going forward. I don't want to see huge pipelines and lots of offers sent out to random customers where you're saying, oh, I have a great pipeline and I think I can win a lot. That's a waste of time. It's eating resources within the company. It has a negative effect on the efficiency of the company. I want to see a smaller pipeline, I want to see a smaller prospect list, and I want you to win five or four out of the five offers you're sending out. That's the only way to get efficiency in the organization, because the cost of making an offer, the cost of interacting with the customer, and then losing the deal, is huge and the same cost and the same things in winning the deal creates 70 to 95 or 75 to 95 percent gross margin that goes directly down to the ebitda line so sharpening the focus taking away a lot of work that's completely unnecessary doesn't lead to anything is the initiatives we're taking. And it goes also for headquarters, you know, headquarters that are eating time from the organization, working on things that has nothing to do with the actual result of the company, but just is good to have. We're going to stop that. We're going to take it away and we're going to accept the fact that we are a company with revenues north of 900 million Swedish and with employees around 600. That's not a big company. We don't need big company processes. We need small company processes for an agile, highly profitable software company. And those are the types of initiatives you will see going forward.

Perfect. Thanks. And just regarding your financial targets, you maintain the 35% EVTA margin despite the low share of capitalization. I mean, could you just comment on your thoughts regarding targets? I know that you've probably been working like two weeks with this, but yeah, any thoughts?

Yeah, so the... There are two things to increase EBDA margin in a company like ours. It's actually not that difficult. You have an organization that can handle the business that you have and then you invest a bit more in future business and you make sure that you win new deals that covers the cost and the things above that will will create the margin so revenue growth and new business is you know it's key to generate the uh the ebda margin i don't think that can you hear us yeah i don't think we've got black here so i i i'm not i'm worried about Making sure that we have a solid pipeline that can generate new business. As you saw in the presentation, we have a growing sales and marketing. Sales and marketing in our network solution is growing. It's very healthy. It's actually very good news that you can see that trend there. that's working we now have to make sure that we win new deals from a cost perspective which is the second part then we're now taking decisions that will generate 60 60 million on the cash flow line it will lower the cost the opex will low below with only 10 10 million based on the the the decisions we've taken But already now compared to the same period last year, we have 8 million lower OPEX from a spending perspective. So based on the knowledge we have at this point, based on the 14 days, based on the knowledge I had as the chairman of the board, we have now taken the decisions we want to take to lower the OPEX. But going forward, if we're not seeing revenue coming, we will continue to make the organization more effective, i.e. lower the OPEX. That's what I can say. For us to reach the 35%, it is clearly within reach when we're doing planning. And I intend to make sure that execution will support those plans that we agree in the board.

Clear. And just also regarding the repurchasing program, is there any terms or are there any terms regarding minimum use of this program? Any maximum share price also?

There is no minimum terms. There's a maximum term of 10% and 25 million during the third quarter. So it's quite regulated what we can do and in what spread and what number of shares we can trade. We've agreed with a credit institution to do this, our bank to do this. And so it's on a discretionary basis, but the terms are pretty clear. I think it's better if you go through that offline, but no minimum, just a maximum. And within the rules and regulations, we will buy back shares.

Okay, good. And then just, I mean, you obviously commented on it also. You say that the network data layer product is just one of your 10 products, but what is your view on your remaining portfolio? Are you happy with the market position that NAI is currently in?

Thank you for that question. It's the most important question I would argue at this point in time. Given the fact that the share price of the company is down this dramatically over the last couple of quarters, it's difficult to say I'm happy with the product portfolio. But I am happy with the product portfolio. And I think that the reaction from the market based on this one product, this one customer has been confusing. the deal we did in the beginning of the quarter was traffic management much of the pipeline we're going forward with is in cyber security much of the activities we're doing in the company is cyber security the dpi product is very much on par super solid and been solid for the last eight some years and in cyber security we have both a signaling product and a messaging product we're winning on both the wi-fi product we have We're winning in Europe. We're winning in South America. We're winning in many parts of the world. And we have a solid development. So I'm very pleased with that. The things that I'm less pleased with is the, what I, it's easy to say, but the overinvestments in the MDL product and the over, you know, the expectations, the two big expectations on the MDL product. And also the 5G applications we have, or something that we have invested in, but that the market has not yet adopted. Having said this also Jesper, and I know you've been interested in this NDL product before, it's a pretty interesting product. once the market will go to 5G core. And we have invested, and it's clear on the balance sheet, and it's clear on the impairment we've done, we've invested a huge amount of money in this product. We have a very good product sitting there. And we're not going to waste a lot of sales resource trying to sell this to companies that doesn't want it, but the companies that do want this and comes to us and ask for a competitive bid, on an LDL-NDL product, we have a very good product. So I'm absolutely happy with the portfolio of INEA.

Great. Thank you so much. That's all for me.

The next question comes from Simon Granath from ABGSC. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator, and thank you for the forward-leaning presentation. I just have one or two follow-up questions. Initially, Anders, I remember some years ago when you were the CEO, you mentioned that one step in your strategic transition back then was to grow in size. And as you came from a relatively small size in your network solutions, is this still important or have you reached the scale you were then talking about?

Thank you and thank you for reminding me about that. I'm still very... I think still this is something that's very dear to me and we have not reached the size that I think is healthy. Instead we have increased the company, we have increased capabilities, we've increased head office, we've increased plans, we've increased processes, we've increased a lot of things but we've not increased the revenue of the company. That's an unhealthy position to be in, because the only thing that can help you then going forward is either to actually do increase revenues or you have to lower costs. There's no other way. And you don't want to come into a situation where you have to lower costs to improve profitability. So we have built a product portfolio, we have built the go-to-market organization and now it's the job of the company to grow in size organically to grow into a more profitable situation and as i answered on the earlier question i don't expect this is something to you know that will happen i'm going to use the same english because it's the only thing I can come up with now. It's not going to happen with a snap of the finger. We have tried many things over the last couple of quarters and been unsuccessful in growing revenues, or not as successful as we wanted in growing revenues. But I think we're doing many of the right things. We have invested in the sales force. We have started to train the sales force. We have invested in a pretty senior sales force. we have developed great products we're now scaling back r d investments in favor of sales and marketing investments but what we need to do going forward is to also sharpen the focus of this sales force and be less forgiving about you know not selling If you have a sales force, we have a sales force to sell products. We don't have a sales force to tell you guys that we've invested in the sales and marketing organization. So they need to perform. And that we're going to monitor super closely. And if your question then is about size from a non-organic perspective, I don't think we're in that position at the moment to add size

from an acquisition perspective. We have done that. We now need to make sure that we get operational efficiency based on the portfolio we have. And after that, when we're back to the 35% margins, when we can see some growth in the portfolio we have, we will again start looking at that. But it's not prioritized. at this moment in time thank you for a very clear and insightful answer and just second and final question for me and that's a follow-up on the end deal project or product, how would you say that that is progressing with the North American customer that you have historically announced? So a very good question. You know, you call it forward-leaning and I'm not sure about that. I am very... INEA has a very good position. We have a... Within the board we have a... in English. A technical committee for product development committee that had a meeting yesterday where we talked about artificial intelligence. The board members

come back and you know are shaking their head and just saying this is world class and then we're you know one of the guys is a former CTO of Sony Ericsson a humble former CTO of Sony Ericsson you know being very clear about the fact that Apple took over and but and the things he could have done differently so but he's very knowledgeable on technology and clearly they are impressed It was people from Belfast, INEA Belfast and INEA Paris, both coming from a cybersecurity space in where we could use AI much more. So, you know, we have good people and we have a good portfolio. On that specific project, I'm not sure really how to answer that, you know, saying more

we will sharpen the focus of our mdr products we have taken down resources we have in india we have consolidated in europe and those Also, if you are interested in cost, we're actually having the same cost in Croatia than we have in India. So it's not negative from a cost perspective. It's very good from an efficiency perspective. So I I hope and I think that we will have better quality, more robust quality in our NCL product going forward. And I hope that our North American customer and the other smaller European customer we have we appreciate the more robust quality in that product going forward. So I'm cautiously optimistic. That's the best answer I can give at this point in time. Thank you for having my questions. Thank you. There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments. All right, thank you all for giving us this opportunity. Me and Ulf will meet you again in October, if not before. And until that, all the best.