Fabege AB (publ)

to our presentation for the third quarter 2024. The first slide you have seen before, it's about the focus we have on Stockholm, that we only have 100 properties from Storaplan to Flemingsberg. We have a little bit more than 1,000, 1 billion square meters and a total value of 79, 58 billion. And as you know, I've seen in the report, the valuation this quarter was positive. During the quarter, we had the pleasure of officially welcoming some positive happenings and developments. We have welcomed the Royal Swiss Opera and the Royal American Theatre to Flemingsburg. We have opened a restaurant in Regulaarten in Flemingsburg. We have started the tenants to move in to a quarter in Hagenora. The garage in Hagenora is finished and so on and so on. The list can be quite long. But with that said, there are also some challenges. Next slide, please. You see some of the figures for the third quarter. We have almost the same level of rental incomes, even after the divestments we made in 2023. For the first nine months, we have increasing and rental incomes and in the like for life you can say the incomes increased about five percent for the first nine months and the surplus ratio is a good very good very good for the third quarter it depends of course on the weather for the for the nine plus nine months it's at the same level And as I said, of the seven quarters of negative value changes, we had a positive small one, but a positive one in the third quarter. And we will tell you more about the figures later here. And I can also say for the third quarter we saw as a whole lower interest rates. We had a stronger Swedish krona and that of course has been positive for the market. But we will start also to go a little bit deeper into the figures, so please.

Thank you Stefan. Yes, rental income amounted to almost 2.6 billion, which is slightly higher than the previous year. It decreased due to property divestments. As you mentioned, Stefan, last autumn was offset by indexation increases and the taking of possession in previous project properties. And since this summer, the Swedish Royal Opera and Theatre have also moved into Flemingsburg. In a like-for-like portfolio, income increased by 5%. Expirating costs are in line with the previous year after a strong third quarter with a surplus ratio of 77% in total. The surplus ratio for the entire period ended up at 75%, the same as the previous year. Bostad's gross profit loss amounted to minus 17 million, with two projects completed during the period where the final recognition occurred. Excluding administration costs, the profit came in at plus 3 million. And total central administration amounted to minus 80 million. With falling market interest rates, interest expenses decreased in the third quarter. Cumulatively, net interest expense was in line with the previous year. The average interest rate was 3.16% at the end of the quarter. Lower market interest rates are gradually having an impact, and our active work with interest rate derivatives have delivered good results. In addition, loans are now being refinanced at better and better margins. The result in associated companies amounted to minus 57 million, of which minus 71 million related to the capital contribution to Ariana Bolaget. and 11 million related to a profit from the JV project in Haga-Norra. And we therefore reported profit from property management of just over 1 billion, approximately 100 million lower than the previous year. Impairment of development properties relates to a change of value of residential building rights in Bioborstad. Realized changes in value amounted to almost minus 1.2 billion after we reported a positive change in value of 224 million in the third quarter. I will come back to this very soon. We also reported a small realized profit of 4 million, which related to a time lag from the transaction with NREP last autumn. As a result of falling market interest rates, the surplus value in the derivative continued to decrease in the third quarter. In total, the surplus value decreased by 444 million during the nine-month period. And finally, the tax expense, which related to the deferred tax only, was positive and amounted to 30 million. Next slide, please. Yield requirements leveled off and were essentially unchanged during the quarter and even slightly lower for a few of the most central properties. However, the average yield requirement remained at 4.54%, same as last quarter. In the quarter, we have once again independently valued a large proportion of the portfolio, approximately 45%. The rest of the properties have, as usually, been valued internally. Since the values peaked in Q3 2024, we have written down the property value by approximately 15% in total. In Q2, we reported a small lagging impairment of minus 80 million. And now in Q3, there has been a turnaround and we have revalued the properties upwards by 224 million. The total change in value for the entire period amounted to minus 1.2 billion, and we are now reporting a property value of 78.2 billion. In addition, there is a property value of the development property portfolio in Birjebostad of 0.7 billion. Next slide, please. Reported equity was unchanged from the previous quarter and amounted to 121 crowns per share. And the long-term EFRA NRV amounted to 147 crowns per share. The equity asset ratio amounted to 46% and the loan-to-value ratio was 43%. Both of these key performing indicators confirm our continued strong balance sheet. The interest coverage rate has strengthened slightly and amounted to 2.5, which is in line with year ends. Please turn to slide financing. The access to and pricing of financing has continued to improve. This applies to both the capital market and banks. even though the biggest improvement has taken place in the capital market with significantly lower margins. The commercial paper market is continuing to function well. We have lowered the margin in a couple of steps and are now issuing three months commercial papers at 40 basis points compared with 70 basis points at year end. And as stated, the bond market is functioning well. We have been active through several issues, both before the summer and in the autumn. Since year end, the outstanding bond volume has increased by 2 billion. The margins have continued to improve. Examples are a two-year bond at the margin of 82 basis points and a three-year bond at margins just under 100 basis points. Undrawn revolving credit facilities and unpaid term loans amounted at the end of the quarter to 8.5 billion, of which about 2.4 billion was used for repayment of other loans after the end of the quarter. Overall, we continue to have a good preparedness for upcoming financing needs and refinancings. We have facilities in place to cover the upcoming loan maturities. In total, we have bond maturities of 2.7 billion in 2025, of which 2.1 billion matures during the second half of the year. We intend to refinance bond maturities with new bonds, whereas the bank facilities are continually refinanced through extensions. Next slide, please. Of the loan portfolio, 54% is fixed, mainly based on long-term maturities and most through straightforward interest rate swaps, supplemented by some fixed rate bonds. During the autumn, we have replaced maturities with several new long straightforward interest rate swaps with maturities of five to seven years. Approximately 45% of the current loan portfolio is matched by fixed rate terms beyond 2025. In addition, there are callable interest rate derivatives of 7 billion In total, that now looks to set to continue running. Straightforward interest rate derivatives run with a fixed interest rate between 0.11 and 2.18%. And the callable interest rate derivatives run with an interest rate between 1.82 and 2.5%. The average fixed term amounts to 1.8 year and adjusted for the estimated maturity of the callable swaps, the fixed rate term increases to 3.1 years. Our interest rate strategy provides predictability. Fixed rate terms provide protection against rising market interest rates. Now, however, we believe more in falling market interest rates. The levels that we have been able to fix at now, both for straightforward interest rate swaps and callable swaps, are levels that we think work for us even in the long term. For a moving 12-month period ahead, an increase in the market interest rate of 1 percentage point will generate a higher interest expense of approximately 148 million, all else unchanged, and a corresponding reduction of the market interest rate of 1 percentage will generate a lower interest expense of 91 million. The average interest rate was 3.16 at the end of the quarter, and it has subsequently fallen slightly after that. And now back to you, Stefan.

Thank you, Åsa. So please go to the next slide. A year ago, a lot of the questions were about the financial market, and as Åsa said, we feel that it's very stable now. And there were also a lot of questions about the transaction market. During the whole period, the transactions that has been made in our market, has been made on very good levels, and are supporting also the valuation we have had, and with that we have. The last quarter, we have seen some transactions within our markets, for example, both in Sorna in the city and also in the CBD. But last week, they were really one of the largest ones announced. It was at Pallastam, acquired from AMF, the pension fund, the fifth Høytorget in the middle of the CBD in Stockholm. They acquired it for 2.8 billion Swedish kronor. It is 16,000 square meters of space area, and it's but they have also to renovate it in the future. So I think that transaction is equating in many ways. But as we said, the transaction has to be made in the Stockholm market, and supported more than well by our variations. If we look at the office market in Stockholm, next slide, please. Here you can see that the total market of office space hasn't been growing that much over the last almost 15 years. It has been changed since many of you have been visiting Stockholm and Seenholz, in a Brunke Bay store, for example. We have office space that has been, today are the hotels, we have some other uh transformation has been done but the the new building has been mainly but made by us for example in sauna new modern office space and if you look at the next slide please um you we have some more figures on the how the market has been developing you can see that we know that the rents has been improving or up to very good levels or at record levels. We had a number of employees that during the same period have been growing, but the last quarters we have seen it stabilizing or even at some small, coming down a little bit. The vacancy rates have been stable, but have been coming up the last year. But as you said, very few new spaces are coming to the market. So this means that the square meters per employee has been decreasing. And I think that's also the trend we will continue to see, that we are using the office more efficiently. We have seen during a period some companies continue to downsize. Mainly also because of the economy. If you look at the next slide, please. We have our largest tenants. We know that the ICA Ontario has been working with the operations to make it more efficient. And last week, last Friday actually, we got the message that the convent of filing for Chapter 11 What does this mean for us? We can say we feel very confident that we have the best areas for the 4K working that they had in Rottinggatan and Kungsgatan. We have discussions with them going on right now. We will inform you more when we have something to tell you. But the conventions are have a very good operation, but has been taking a little bit too much risk, in my view, at the same time. So that's also why they're now having those discussions for chapter 11. But both Konskatan and the Rottengatan space are doing well, as we know what we know about. But this we have to follow up, of course, later on. Next slide. Netlifting. That's a disappointing figure. I said that last quarter, and I will say it this quarter too. Unfortunately, we have a minus, even this quarter, of about 11 million. We have, for the first nine months, 85 million. The last quarter is two small new contracts signed. We have also a net effect of the work we're doing now with the Vandegrind Center. which we have to vacate for, among other things, replacement of the facade. In this quarter, I think it's about 7 million negative. But we have two new contracts signed. Everything takes time. We have a lot of, as we said before, a lot of good discussions. We have a lot of good showing and interest in the market, but everything takes time. And unfortunately, also part of the game right now. But we probably will get some questions about that later on too. Talk about the renegotiations on the next slide. As we said before, many of the contracts we just extend on unchanged terms. We are... set away within the levels we have the contracts on uh the ones we're negotiating this uh so far this year 60 million we have about two percent negative uh decrease your contract with two percent but uh many of the contracts also has been very uh already been negotiated so um We think most of the contracts are market levels. Some, of course, still we have a potential in, but also some of them, as we said before, are over-rented. The occupational rates are negatively impacted by the negative net letting we have had even some years ago. And we haven't seen the positive effect still yet on the projects. coming up, but we still have the goal of coming up to 95%, but it will take longer time than I hoped. Today we're right a little bit lower than 90%. This potential, as we said before, about 150 million in incomes, This next slide, you have seen this before, we try to show you how the rental development will be on the existing lease portfolio for the next four quarters and this is taking into account both the uh in what we know about the people moving out of companies moving out and also the people moving in so so this is the best way so now i guess a q4 2025 with an effect also among i think uh alpha for example at the beginning of especially beginning of 2026 but we will show you that next quarter investments coming down and we will still we have some of the large ones in going on but especially for 2025 we're seeing this investment in the portfolio and for new products coming down on the next slide you see the projects accorded awesome regulator separator and earthen are the ones we are have an ongoing right now. Some of them are quartered, or the company or tenants moving in right now. Portsen, the same. We have handed over the key to some of the first tenants, but it will be in the beginning of next year. And separate often, it's only maybe more than six months to Alfa Laval will move in, and a year to Saab will move into Britain. So it's moving, and it's moving on. I think also maybe it could be interesting on this to see that when those projects are finalized, we will have another six million whether we generate the cash flow. That's today not cash flow positive, although we are still under projects. Next slide, please. Birger Bostad. We had a residential project in Hagenora. It's ongoing. It's in total 288 apartments, of which 78 rental apartments. We have started during the quarter to sell them. Here we have nine of the first 23 sold. I think today I can say we can add a couple of more sold. And we have a very good interest for the project. So I think I'm very positive to how this will continue to develop. Also, a little bit about the sustainability and what we're doing there. And what feedback we're getting from both the market and some

Yeah, all right. What's happening in sustainability? I think the biggest news in the quarter was our excellent ranking in this year's GRESP sustainability benchmark. In our property management operations, we have taken several steps upwards and now achieved a rating of 95 out of 100 in total. And in our project development, we were unchanged with a rating of 98 out of 100. This is a fantastic result, which we are very proud of. We can turn to the next slide, please. In this slide, you can see some of our main targets. An important aspect is the use of energy. Fabergé has the sector's lowest energy consumption with our 2023 outcome of 71 kilowatt hours per square meter. We have a goal of reducing this further to 70 kilowatt hours per square meter. So far this year, however, the energy consumption has increased by approximately 4%, which mainly related to the climate. More cold winter and a warm summer that required both more heating and more cooling. Another important aspect is the CO2 target. Projects have the greatest impact. And we now set targets and measures here too in all our projects, including new constructions, as well as redevelopments and tenant adaptations. Last year, we introduced a circularity target, which means that at least 20% of the material used in projects must be reused material. And today we are at 15%. Next slide, please. This is where our recycling strategy and the recycle hub come in. Here you can see the recycle hub, which is a storage area for material from Fabrikas properties that can be reused in another project. Through systematics, inventoring, warehousing and an internal marketplace for management of material that can be reused, we are leading the way. We have made a lot of progress in our strategic work with reuse, and this will be a prerequisite for reaching the long-term CO2 targets. Next slide, please. Finally, I want to maybe again mention our social engagement. We want to be involved and make a difference for Stockholm in general, and more specifically in our areas. It is about creating secure districts and pleasant inviting areas between the buildings in our districts. It's also about being a good corporate citizen. We will not take over the responsibility, but we should and can contribute through our engagement and presence. Some good examples are that we create summer jobs for young people in our areas. We help fund Läxhjälpen Homework Club in Flemingsberg, and we are engaged in Talang Akademi, which gives people outside the labor market the opportunity of work experience and ultimately jobs. This is a commitment that usually with quite small amounts of funds contributes to society while creating pride within the FABG organization. And by now that's back to you Stefan.

So thank you. If you just summarise what was the priority we had and had during the 2024. To increase applicant rates, as I said before, it's a disappointment that we don't have a positive net netting. I don't think it will be positive this year. I said before that we have a goal for 80 million plus 80 million. I hope that we said already last quarter we will not expect us to come up to that. I hope that we'll be positive. I don't think we will be positive this year. But as I said, we have a lot of discussions. We have a lot of, we have very good properties in prime locations, but it's a tough market. It's a challenging market with a lot of uncertainty. So if it a year ago was a lot about the financing market and the transaction market, it's much more now about the rental market. But we have a good organization and we have really a focus on this. Everything is all about getting net leasing up to good levels. That also means that we're working with maybe future products. As you know, we have a lot of exciting future opportunities, future options with exciting products, both in Arenastaden, in Sonne Business Park, even at Sveaplan, and in the longer term in Flemmingsberg. So we continue to work to see what we can do. And we also have some discussions about finding some tenants for those future products. So hopefully, long term, I'm optimistic, but short term, it has been challenging times. Every day we work with the cost control. I think we have a good culture of how to work with the costs. Also has been talking about the refinancing and the situation there. And also how we try to be in the forefront of the ESG in the world, everything we do in the whole operation. So I think we have a strong fundamental base. We have strong results for the daily work in the daily operation. We have a financing situation is positive now, but the rental markets give us some challenging times right now. I think it will continue during 2024 with all the uncertainty in the world we have and in for the economy, but I'm looking forward to 2025 with a bit more optimistic view. So with that said, please, questions.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Nadia Rahman from UBS. Please go ahead.

Hello, good morning. Can you hear me clearly? Morning.

Yes, we can. Thank you.

Good morning. Thanks for the presentation. My first question relates to vacancy. And you mentioned the sadly alpha level tenants and the positive effects on the vacancies. So what quantum change can we expect in the next 18 months from these tenants moving into the properties? And the second question is a follow-up on that, is that there have been talks, I guess, in the press of Ericsson potentially exploring options beyond their just current site for a larger plot. And do you think they're a potential candidate for one of your properties in Solna? Thank you.

It was a little bit unclear, but was your first question regarding how the vacancy rate will change?

Correct, yes. From sub and alpha level into the properties in the next 18 months. So what quantum change can we expect from that?

Well, in the near future, we think that the occupancy rate will be actually a little bit reduced because we have Telia leaving some of the area which were announced in the net lettings last quarter. But then we also have projects being finalized and moved into. So for example, when Saab moves in a year from now, that will have a positive impact on the occupancy rate. But I think it's fair to believe that in the near future, the occupancy rate will be reduced somewhat. And then hopefully we will be able to increase it again going forward. And I think the second question from you was regarding Ericsson and the potential of them moving from Kista, correct?

Correct, yes. We have all read the newspapers and We will be more than happy to present some alternatives for that. We have good alternatives both in Arenastaden and in Sona Business Park. Hopefully we can be able to present something.

Yeah, and if I may ask a follow-up on a slightly different topic. So you mentioned in your presentation that the decline in space needed by businesses that you say is driven by the business cycle, but do you think this is a technical effect at this point in time, or do you think this is a more fundamental shift in preferences that may last for a longer period of time?

Sorry, it's very difficult to hear, but also, did you... No, it seems like someone else is talking behind you.

Oh, sorry, so let me... Okay.

So please, can you repeat the question? Is this better? Yeah. Yeah, much better.

Thanks. Sorry about that. Sorry. So I should repeat that. So in your report, you mentioned a decline in space needed by businesses that's been driven by the business cycle. Do you find that this is a cyclical effect on this occasion? Or do you think this is a more fundamental shift in the markets this time and in preferences that will be longer term?

Now, I think what we see right now, for example, taking a longer time for getting a signing of a contract. So that's more the business cycle right now, the economy and the uncertainty in the world. Longer term, it's more about how to use the offices. Offices that it's important for companies we know, but we have a trend to less square meters per employee. And that continues. We have smaller desks. where there's less maybe area per square meter. But that continues. But that also means that the location or the transportation, and so it's much more important. So that's always why you're willing to pay a higher rent per square meter for the offices. So I think the trend is that offices, we have a lot of discussions how important the office is. But right now it's the economy and the downturn in the economy that are the main reason why it's overtaken. The uncertainty of signing a new contract.

Very clear. Thank you very much and apologies for the unclear line.

No problem. Thank you.

Any more questions?

OK. The next question comes from from Kempen. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. Can you hear me? Yes. OK, great.

Thank you for the presentation and for taking my questions. First one would be on operations. Of course, you mentioned the office market is still challenging.

Sorry, one sec. We heard when you asked the first question, if we could hear you, but now it's something wrong with the line. So please.

Okay. You mentioned a challenging office market. And then one trend specifically is that occupiers are taking longer.

Yeah.

But that's not all, because rents are still under pressure and occupancy is moving up. So what, in your view, needs to change for operations to turn positive?

I think the main reason for taking this time for signing new contracts or making decisions is the uncertainty in the economy and the uncertainty in the world on the both political and of the war scene and so we have so the uncertainty I think we it's a little bit the main reason then on top of that we have this how they look to how should their offices look like how much space do we need maybe not less space but how should we use it where how much is desks how much meeting rooms how much you know the whole list of questions and But the main reason right now, in my view, is the business cycle.

Okay, thank you. And then on valuations, of course, you reported stable valuations. And then in Sweden, you typically talk about the yield requirement, which you reported 4.5%. But let's say on the rest of the continent, corporates typically look at the NOI yield, which if I calculate for you, I get to 3.8%. And first, do you have any comments on that? And second, why should your properties be appraised at such a yield when typically for the NOI yield, we see 4% or above?

Good question. I think we have to maybe, we could be discussing that for a long time. And I think also since we are so transparent with all the figures, everyone can make the calculations you like to do. um the value values in sweden have the system that has been used for many years and also the that we did you know that our main values are because my wakefield and music and they are you also using the same system as they're using in different markets so so uh i think it's um I have no better answer than that actually. Transparency I think is very important that you can always see at which level sits its value. But the transactions in the market is also important to say that the transactions we see in the market in our part of the different markets is more than It's at the same levels or even better levels than the square meter or yield or whatever that we have in the books. So I think that's also important to say.

Okay, thank you. And then maybe one last question on Convendum. It is one of your tenants. Could you just quote your total exposure to coworking? And then just in general, there was also an interview with the CEO of Convendum and he was implying that Convendum cannot pass the inflation to their customers. So what's your view on the space in general?

In total, as you know, Convendum is our second largest tenant. Italy be more than 3% of the rental incomes. I think they have very attractive units. They have two units. One with us, it's one at Trottinggatan, close to where we have the royal castle and the government. And then one at Kungsgatan, close to Stureplan. And I think both of them, what we know, we don't know exact figures, but what we know, they are doing okay, and they have attractive units. We also saw his comments about the rents, and we think that those units are definitely not over-rented. They are at market rent or even below. In my view, he's promised that he has been growing a little bit too fast. He took on too many units at the same time. So the cash flow has been challenging and especially when this business. But I think he has attractive units with us. And so we will from out from that have the discussions with him when he now fight for chapter 11.

Okay, very clear. Thank you very much.

I think we have. Okay.

The next question comes from Alexander Totomanov from Green Street. Please go ahead.

We lose him.

We have some questions by email. Maybe we should go on with those.

Hello.

Alexander Toto-Manoff, Green Street, your line is now unmuted. Please go ahead.

Hi, sorry about that. There were some technical difficulties. Good morning and thank you for taking my questions. Two questions for me. This morning, you reported a 1.2% increase in vacancy driven by Sona, about a 2% increase, and judging by the commentary, that seems to be driven by Van Staden and Hammarby, about a 4% increase. Could you please comment on the new vacancies? Are they driven by a couple of large tenants? How is the relating discussion going? And do you expect, where do you see the occupancy landing by the end of the year? And one more question with regards to announced M&A. Yesterday, D&B announced it's purchasing Carnegie, which is your fifth most significant tenant. I know it's early innings, but given the 2027 expiry on the lease, are you already planning for this?

We start with a second. We saw yesterday that, as you said, D&B acquired Carnegie, and we think that's hopefully positive. They have very good locations with us in Stockholm, and I hope that even in the long term, it's really the Carnegie building in Stockholm. And they have been growing with us for now, is it 10 years or something?

More than 10 years.

In 2010 or 2011, I think. So they have been growing in the building and in the rest of that street and that block. So hopefully even in the future. What we see today in the vacancies figures is the effect of net leasing figures last year or the leasing figures last year and the beginning of this year. We said earlier that we expect the vacancy rate to come up a little bit, maybe during Q4, before it's turning again in 2025 to the more positive side. So that's what we have for the short term expectations. During 2025, they then have the finalizing of their projects, and especially second half of 2025 and beginning of 2026, we will have the income from, for example, the rental income coming from Saab, for example, at the end of it. So, yeah. But the short term, it can be a little bit weaker.

Thank you very much.

Okay, we have no more questions on the telephone conference, but I have one additional question from Goldman Sachs on email. Do you see interest and finance costs going down in the near future? And yes, actually we do. I also said in the call that the average interest cost of 3.16% by the end of the quarter has been reduced to 3.08%. by now. We don't expect it to be reduced very much further, but we expect the average interest rate to stay just above 3% going forward. We are renegotiating loan agreements with better margins today and the market rates are going down. On the other hand, we have some old interest rate swaps that were taken five, six years ago on really, really low levels that are maturing. But in all, we believe that the interest cost will be around 3% and we will also see improved ICR going forward. We also had some other questions, but they have already been asked from the telephone conference about Convendum and about the occupancy rate. So I think that's it.

So thank you very much for listening. A lot of questions today have of course been about, even in the Swedish presentation about Convendum. I hope you have... We got a lot of the net leasing of minus 11 million. I think it's, as we said, it also included eight of them were from the Fenogren products. So we're more optimistic for the future. We have future projects and as a whole, we have a strong base. so um hopefully we can uh look forward with with all from that stronger yeah okay the next question comes from paul gory from cti please go ahead hi guys can you hear me okay yes ah perfect

Yeah, I submitted a question on the chat, but it obviously didn't go through. I was looking for a little more detail on Convendent and specifically on the two assets. Have conversations already started? I appreciate it's early in the process, but have conversations already started on whether the level of rent cuts that are expected or whether we're expecting full closure of those assets? That's probably the first question.

As I said, of course, when he announced last Friday, we also got contacted. We have discussions, but as I said, I think he has good rents, good levels of rents in the units he has with us, the contracts we have with us. And I also think that it's attractive units. So that's what I can say today. I don't think those units are his largest challenge but he has to answer those questions himself.

Yeah sure, just checking there were no conversations kind of in advance of this and you kind of found out at the same time we did. rents level in our in our units are at definitely at market levels and um so it's attractive levels i think for him yeah and in terms of the the assets themselves if they're not co-working because they need to be repositioned so let's say you know it's it's a full i'm not saying this is what will happen but if there's a full bankruptcy income and i have to leave you'll presumably have to reposition the assets uh again is that right and i think there is a lot of hope

With those addresses we have at Kungsgatan and Drottninggatan a lot of opportunities, both for different options.

Is one of the options to take over from Convendum?

I can't really comment on that, but I think, as I said, there is a lot of options for both those building properties.

okay sure um and then just on a on a separate topic so just on um econ tellia um you can see from your kind of largest customers uh you know the the change quarter on quarter and the share in the rent role um so can you just confirm and just remind me effectively are those from lease renegotiations and therefore the new level of rent is purely on individual leases where they've negotiated new terms, or is it a move-out effect?

It's a move-out effect, and I think with Telia, we were, because that was from last quarter, and Telia was a combination of leaving some space, but also Fabergé increasing the rent per square meter on the remaining space. So that was a combination.

And prolonging the contract a little bit.

And ICA, they had an option to leave some of the space, which they did. And both ICA and Telia also had to pay a penalty for that.

Okay, so they both paid surrender premiums. Did you disclose how much they were?

No, but it's included in the graph with the rental income going forward, because the penalties will be distributed over the remaining time of the contracts.

And also what we said when we announced the deal with Telia, it's also that we see a possibility to have higher rents for the next contracts than we had with Telia. But that's for the future.

Okay, understood. Thanks, that's everything from me.

Perfect. So once again, thank you very much for joining us. You're always welcome to give us a call, mail us, or even hopefully also visit us in Stockholm. So have a nice day. Thanks.