Fagerhult Group AB

So good morning, everyone. Before we start this webcast, I would like to take a moment to address Q1 directly, because I believe it is important that we are transparent with you what happened and where we stand. So the quarter came in weaker than we expected, and we take that very seriously. The period was affected by a combination of factors. Geopolitical uncertainty impacted both directly and indirectly, with, for example, extended decision-making timelines in several markets. Also, the stronger Swedish krona negatively impacted net sales, and the sales mix between our business areas weighed on gross margin. What does give us confidence is that our order backlog has increased compared with the same period last year. Underlying demand for our products and solutions remain stable, reflecting continued customer need and activity across our key markets. At the same time, we see significant differences between segment and geographies. We have also an ongoing strategic update for the period of 26 to 29, which predated this quarter and was initiated as part of our longer term work to strengthen profitability and stability. We will communicate the direction of this strategic work no later than in connection with the Q2 report. In the meantime, we are taking action, but we want to provide a complete and coherent picture once the process is finalized. We will also, at the end of this section, leave a little bit more time than normally so that you are able to ask any questions that you might have.

Thank you very much Bodil and thank you all for joining us today. I'm Niklas Willstrand and I'm head of communications here at Faguhut Group and it's my pleasure to welcome you to our Q1 2026 results presentation. With us today we have as you already know our president and CEO Bodil Sonneson and our CFO Oskar Wallsten. Bodil will begin with a brief overview of the first quarter results, followed by a short highlight focusing on the energy performance of buildings directive, the EPBD. Oskar will then provide a deeper dive into the group's financial performance. To conclude, Bodil will summarize the key takeaways before we open up the floor for questions. We will first take questions from the conference call participants, followed by questions from the webcast. You can submit your questions via the chat window on your screen, and I will read them aloud for Bodil and Oskar. If you want to ask telephone questions, please press pound key five. Please note that today's session is being recorded and will be available on our website later today. So with that, I will hand over to you, Bodil.

Thank you very much, Nicholas, and welcome again. And so, as I mentioned in my introduction, the performance in the first quarter was below our expectations. Results were impacted by a continued weak construction market that you all know about and that we have been reporting consequently on. And so far, we haven't seen any changes in that. In addition, we had an unfavorable sales mix. We had currency headwinds and a challenging operating environment with the geopolitical situation. In response, the strategic overview has been accelerated with focus on address underlying issues, strengthen the stability, tightening cost control further, and supporting sales growth also very importantly. At the same time, new market drivers are emerging. Therefore, also, we see the need for a little bit of a change in strategic direction. Some of those are including segments like defence, infrastructure, data centres, and I will speak a little bit more about the legal side today, being European performance of building directives. To position the group accordingly, a more unified market strategy is being implemented to reduce complexity and improve efficiency. By reducing complexity and sharpening our geographic focus, we can improve efficiency, strengthen profitability and reinforce our position as one of Europe's leading player. So if we then look at the concrete numbers for Q1, order intake in the first quarter totaled 1,969 million Swedish crowns, corresponding to an organic decline of 14.6% or 11.6% before adjustments. The decline was mainly related to collection, where last year's figures were boosted by one of order linked to the King Salomon project in Saudi Arabia. Premium also had a particularly strong order intake last year, driven by the West Lincoln project. Net sales in the first quarter was, as I said already, impacted by a less favorable sales mix with lower volumes in higher margin segments such as collection and premium. Importantly, gross margins within both collection and premium remained stable. However, lower sales volumes in these higher margin businesses had a negative effect on the group's overall margin. And as a result, net sales declined by 6.1% to 1,821 million Swedish grand or 8.8% adjusted for currency effects and acquisitions. Overall, the group's EBITDA before EACs was 44 million Swedish crowns, and we had no EACs in the quarter. That's a decrease of 72.9% with an EBITDA margin before EAC of 2.4%. And earnings per share before EAC was a negative 0.16%. Despite lower order intake, the order backlog increased to 1,803 million Swedish crowns, mainly driven by higher orders in the business area professional. And once again, we are not satisfied with the outcome and the level of performance delivered. And we will come back to you with more information. Oskar will provide that to you as always in the financial section. And as I said, I'll give you a little bit more update of the EPBD or the European Performance of Building Directives. And that I choose to do that today is because this comes into mandate in national legislation from this month. And I think most of you are familiar with EPBD. I think we'll take a moment to reflect upon what it means in practice. So, as you know, building accounts for a significant share of Europe's energy consumption and around 40% of its CO2 emissions. Yet for decades, improvements in this area have largely relied on voluntary measures. And the European Commission adopted the EPPD two years ago with national implementation required by May 2026 at the latest. So that's where we're coming to. And EPPD changes the game by introducing binding targets fixed deadlines and legal consequences for non-compliance. And this shift from voluntary to mandatory action is what makes this particularly relevant for us. And it is expected to accelerate renovation demand. And I don't know if we've talked about before that we are renovating approximately 1% of the buildings in Europe. And in order to be able to achieve our targets, we need to renovate at least 3%. And for us, the renovation market is very important. So the... When we look into the deadlines and the structural market expansion, so Europe faces 149 billion annual funding gap to meet these targets. And that gap creates urgent structural demand for high efficiency technology. And that demand is non-discretionary. So regulatory frameworks have made energy efficiency a legal necessity for asset survival, not a voluntary upgrade. And that transition is already underway. But many European buildings have yet to complete the shift to LED and the phase out of fluorescent lighting creates for us a predictable multi-year replacement pipeline across the continent. The deadlines are fixed, and these deadlines are related to energy efficiency, but also more details of what they need to entail. And this is in public buildings by 2028 and private new buildings by 2030. So that gives us more of a long-term visibility. And this is a structural market shift, and I think we are very well positioned to benefit from it. So why is this? First, we have wireless solutions and that makes the installation much easier. So by simplifying design and eliminating wiring, we can deliver faster installations at lower costs. That means more project for our installers and less interruption time for the tenants, which suits the retrofit market. Second, lighting is becoming digital infrastructure. Sensors and real-time data turn on luminaires into connected data points within the building management system. That opens the door to recurring revenues beyond the hardware sale and support premium positioning. third is system integration when we connect to central building system we shift from being a product supplier to system partner and that means higher contract values per project and stronger longer term customer relationship and also a much higher value for the building and lower costs for the tenant So organic response is where it comes together. Sensors in every luminaire, as you know, is our goal. Automatic compliance reporting and open API for integration with other building system and customized reporting. The renovation wave creates real and predictable demand across Europe. And what matters is that our portfolio is built exactly for this moment. So wireless installations, connected luminaires, system integrators. And this is not something which is part of our future roadmap. They are products and capabilities we have today in a market that now requires them. So that was my short update on the EPBD. And with that, I will hand over to Oscar for more information on the financial numbers.

Thank you, Bodil. I would also like to welcome everyone to the call. Good morning. This has indeed been a challenging quarter. The business area collection and premium are the main drivers behind the gross margin decline. In collection, we did not win any large order that could match last year's large high margin order from VF in Saudi Arabia. At the same time, sales developed slower than expected in business area premium. Premium won Vestlänken as the large order last year, as Bodle mentioned before, and the same type of favorable business opportunity did not appear in the first quarter of this year. For the group as a total, this development had a negative effect on both volume and business mix. We saw an improved margin in professional, partially thanks to Troto TLV, but this was not enough to compensate for the overall situation. As Bodil mentioned, The organic order intake declined by 14.6% compared to last year. Q1 last year is a tough comparison period. This year, we did not win any projects like King Solomon Park in West Lincoln, and that is clearly visible in the numbers. In the quarter, the order intake is negatively impacted by FX. The strong Swedish Corona is affecting our Euro business in a negative way. On the other hand, the order intake is impacted positively by acquisitions. By this time last year, our brand company Trato was not yet acquired. Sales is decreasing organically by 8.8% in the quarter. FX have a negative impact by 110 million SEK. whereas acquisitions improved the numbers by 162 million, totaling to an effect of positive 52 million SEK. We're not satisfied at all with the first quarter's EBITDA margin, which landed on 2.4%. It dropped by 6% compared to last year. The margin drop is mainly related to lower business volumes in our two largest business areas. collection and premium. The decline in sales has a negative impact on our profitability. In the quarter, we experienced a negative operating cash flow by 160 million SEK. The poor cash flow is mainly explained by weak sales and changes in working capital. I will come back to that later in the presentation. The rolling 12-month net sales shows a decrease in the quarter. We've had some stronger quarters behind us, but the weak first quarter is visible also on a 12-month basis. The margin development weakened in the first quarter as a consequence of the business mix and decline in volume. Collection. The fourth quarter order intake of 774 million SEK and tail organic decline of 19.5, sorry, 19.1%. Like mentioned earlier, the first quarter of last year is a tough quarter to compare with. Net sales in the quarter total 772 million SEK corresponding to organic decline of 7.3%. The EBITDA before IEC decreased to 26 million SEK and the EBITDA margin is 3.3% compared to 8.8% last year. Collection is one of our businesses that was most affected by the unstable situation in the Middle East. Looking at premium, order intake for the quarter of 596 million SEK entail an organic decline of 15.2%. Net sales for the quarter total 557 million SEK and EBITDA landed on 47 million SEK. As you can see in the graph, both numbers represent large declines compared to last year. The EBITDA margin was 8.5% and that is large decline compared to quarter one last year when it was 15.1%. Just like business area collection, premium encountered a tough comparison quarter. The lower volume has a negative impact in the business areas PML. Looking forward, business area premium sees potentials related to the retail sector and also related cross-selling and collaboration activities with Fagerholt Group that can provide us with larger total shares of projects in the future. And then Business area professional, their order intake for the quarter increased to 410 million SEK, mainly thanks to the acquisitions of Trato. Net sales for the quarter totaled 360 million SEK with an organic growth of 15.8%. There has been a positive development in the UK market, which is beneficial for Whitecroft. This is indeed one of the bright spots in this report. Except for the organic growth in net sales, Professional also gets a positive effect of 151 million SEK in net sales from Troto. The operating profit before IEC amounted to 15 million SEK, and that resulted in an EBITDA margin of 4.2%. Business Area Professional has continued to focus on cross-sales and group collaboration, which we consider a success factor going forward. In quarter one, this has been made concrete through the launch of a data center offering, a collaboration between Whitecroft, Eagle, and Veco for the UK and Australian markets. Infrastructure order intake for the quarter totaled 178 million SEK. corresponding to an organic decrease of 6.2%. Net sales for the quarter total 168 million SEK with an organic decline of 13.8%. The EBITDA margin is down to zero. The P&L of infrastructure is suffering from the group gross profit margin, which is a result of lower sales volume. and but same amount of fixed cost and then looking at cash flow the operating cash flow in the quarter was negative by 160 million sec the same period last year the cash flow was positive by 26 million sec the main driver behind negative cash flow is the operating result to start with The working capital has developed in an unfavorable way. Both inventory and customer receivables have grown during the quarter and hence affected cash flow in the wrong direction. Inventory has to some extent been built up to mitigate price increases in certain components and raw material. Quarter one is by seasonal fluctuation, usually the weakest quarter cash flow wise. The recent investments in Toronto and Cape Alon has increased our net debt to current levels, which is higher than before. Now in the first quarter, our net debt to EBITDA ratio has increased because of the development in profitability. And then finally, earnings per share decreased during the first quarter, and it landed on negative 0.16 sec per share. Thank you for your attention and now back to Bodo.

I will do a short conclusion before we open up the questions. What we have heard during this call is that the first quarter came in weaker than expected, reflecting a challenging and uncertain market environment. We continue to see subdued construction activities, specifically in new builds. and together with an internal and favorable sales mix and currency effects, which weighed on net sales and then had a very strong effect on overall performance during the quarter. At the same time, underlying demand for our products and solutions remains solid, which is evidenced by the strengthened order backlog compared to the same period last year. And this supports a view that customer activity and long-term demand drivers are intact, albeit with clear differences between segments and geographies. Against this backdrop, as I said, a strategic overview is ongoing and has been accelerated with clear focus on addressing underlying issues through concrete actions. The objective is to strengthen stability, improve performance and position the group well to navigate the current environment while capturing future opportunities. So thank you for that. And with that, I will hand over to Niklas. We will open up for questions.

Thank you very much, Bodil. And thank you very much, Oskar. I will hand over to Einar to see if we have any questions on the telephone.

Thanks, Niklas. As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please press pound key five on your telephone keypad. The first question is from Lara Mohtadi from ABG Sandal Collier. Please go ahead, Lara.

Hi, Larry from ABG. Just a couple of questions from my side. Firstly, is it possible for you to give some information on which subsidiaries specifically saw the largest volume declines and what's driving the weakness in those companies?

I think what you heard us saying before is that we saw a decline in our bigger business areas. which meaning collection and premium. And because we have high margin businesses there, a lower sales has an impact. And also, we also said when you look into it, that we haven't seen, if you compare to earlier years, we didn't have any of those very big projects. And that makes a difference for us. So then if you look at the overall sales, you know that I've said before that we need to be over 2 billion to support the structure we have, and we were not. So that's where you see the difference. Then it falls down negatively on the bottom line. Does that give you a little bit more information? And then you have, I can also give you a little bit more when you look into different, as I said, there is difference in geographies and in segments. So you heard Oscar saying that UK had a better quarter. We saw positive in Whitecroft, but we also have DesignPlan, who's very present in markets like prisons, which is also a positive segment with positive growth. So so you see those markets. Then, of course, we also mentioned when we did when we sent out the first report that we also see direct and indirect consequences of what's happening in the Middle East, direct in the businesses and collection, because we have we have a local presence there and indirectly because we see longer decision making. parts i think it's when when you have uncertainty in geopolitical parts then i think very often companies push their carpex decisions forward and and we see that we see longer cycles okay uh thank you i guess still on the same topic then on geographies how much of the weakness would you say was specifically uh middle east related versus maybe the underlying

weakness you mentioned in the report in the DAK or the Nordic regions?

I think if you look in general, if you look into what we did last year, last year revenue in the Middle East was 400 million Swedish pounds, which is approximately 5% of our revenue. Then, I mean, the conflict erased in the end of February. But we saw some immediate effects. I mean, we closed down the office we had in the Middle East. And then it's difficult to say when you look into the indirect consequences, how much does it really affect the numbers? But I think it's a mixture, as I said, it has effect on the decision-making side of things.

Just to clarify there, the 400 million SEK is the annual number and not the quarter number.

Okay. Thank you. Well, given that the comp stay is a bit in Q2, but you mentioned the Middle East and new construction is still weak, do you sort of see Q1 as a truss? I'm just trying to get a sort of sense of the earnings trajectory for the rest of the year. Should we sort of see this as a one-off quarter, or how should we think going forward?

I mean, we don't give any predictions going forward. So I can't comment on that in that sense. But I think you heard me saying that we don't see a fundamental difference in the underlying demand. So which means that and also when you look into the order backlog, we haven't seen things worsening as we speak. So I think that's as much as I can give you.

Okay, thank you. And just a last question. You mentioned the war started in, well, end of February. So could you just maybe give us some color on how, well, January and February were? Because I'm assuming March was weak as it closed down in the Middle East. But how were those months in the beginning of Q1? And also, how has April been so far?

I also if you look, I think what you also need to look at when you when you follow us is I would also look at the order intake when you go back. So if you look into I think we already had some hint when we look into Q4, when we looked into the order intake, that that was weaker. So that is also what you need to see, which had an impact on the start of the year. And then, I mean, when you look into April, as I said, we don't see any further deterioration. So I would say that the month of April has rather started more positively than what we saw at the beginning of the year.

Okay, that was very clear. That was all from my end. Thank you very much.

The next question is from Mats Lis from Kepler Chevrolet. Please go ahead, Mats.

Yeah, I thank you. Well, coming back to the earnings performance here, I mean, there seems to be a short and long term issue here. I mean, short term, we have weakness in the markets and longer term, you mentioned the European property building directive. And how do you play this? I mean, it seems that currently you're not sort of to reach higher earnings levels you need to make some cost measures or efficiency measures but longer term it seems that things are looking interesting for you as a supplier of lead lighting solutions and so on. And I guess that's what you are aiming to present in the strategic view.

So maybe you keep that for... Yes, I think you are spot on there, Mats. So as I said, we will do the strategic overview. And what we've said is that we will do it not later than in the Q2 report. so i don't want to preempt that process and and and we hadn't we didn't start that because of the resulting q1 it was something we were already working up and we have we have accelerated it uh when we're seeing that we need to secure both short-term and long-term profitability and stability and and what we're working on there is of course on both sides so we're working on both the cost efficiency side of things. And we're also working on growth opportunities. As you heard me saying, I think, and I've said it before, is that when you look at markets, I mean, we were very strong on the... in the office market. And we haven't really seen the office market coming back. But there are new segments. Like I said, when you look into, I mean, all the funding goes into defense and data centers today. So, of course, then we also need to make sure we're sharpening our offer in those segments. And that's what we're doing by working stronger together. I also think that the changing word we have around us also makes us focusing more on markets where we see high stability. So there will be a few different measures and we will come back to you, as I said, as the latest in the Q2. But it's looking into the picture you're describing.

Yeah, and things seem to be, well, you mentioned that demand hasn't sort of become worse, but Then again, we see a lot of cost increases, as I can imagine. I mean, not only raw materials, different kinds, and you have freight. How do the markets respond to potential price increases from your side to balance the costs?

I think there is a double part of that. I mean, there is, I think we are more aggressive from a volume perspective side of things in pricing when we need to. Then on the other hand, when it comes to direct consequences of, as you mentioned, whether it's material costs or it's transportation, then of course we will pass that on as price increases. And I think in those cases, I think the market is prepared to At the other hand, when you look upon it, I mean, we don't, a new inflationary period is not something which is positive for CapEx investments. So, but we will try to adapt to the world around us as much as we can.

Looking at the backlog there, I mean, there are some projects with, well, lead times are a bit longer. Do you have the raw material clauses or whatever price clauses in place to balance higher costs?

Yes. And I mean, we are very project oriented. And I think we learned a lot from the last inflation period in that sense. And also, as you saw, partly impacting our cash flow negatively. We've also made some projections in terms of being able to serve that demand while still having lower prices on the raw material side.

Great. And then we have these structural changes that you mentioned, well, ahead of the European property building, et cetera. Do you expect to see more competition in those segments from others, or are you sort of in place with the usual ones. I mean, China, I guess we, I mean, to be a bit more clear, I mean, China has been a competitor, maybe more in the low end of the market. And are they sort of upgrading their offering now and starting to become a tougher competitor in in the areas where you have been, maybe not alone, but you have been market positioned better.

I think we've never been alone, unfortunately. But if you look into the Chinese competitors, they are there. Of course, they are there. We've seen some negative impact also. I think you see the Chinese focusing more on Europe today when they have more tariffs in the US. Of course, it's driving more Chinese competition. I think if you look into the European performance of buildings directive, what I was trying to point out with that... is that we are very well positioned with the combination of our lighting solutions and smart lighting solutions. And I think if you are a property owner also and you want to put smarts into your building, you have many other factors included in that, like cybersecurity. And also, you have benefits in terms of that we take care of measuring the data for you. And I think in such a context, it is a big advantage to be a European supplier. Then when you look into the directive and the consequences you will get, I mean, there will be no catch-up effect of it. And I see also from our sides that one of the major challenges is that we need to inform more about it. I think there is still a knowledge gap in this that we need to work on. That's also why I speak to it. But the legislation will help and the legislation is quite clear. And I also, the other part of renovation where we see a big advantage is by being local as we are, we can also make renovation solutions much easier than if you buy a standard solution from the other side of the world, because we go in and renovate as well. And that you can only do if you have local production. So I think there is a few very clear advantages, I would say, from our side.

Did that give you a picture? Yeah, very good. And finally, just, I mean, to address these opportunities, do you need to make any sort of investment or capex, or are you sort of prepared with the current?

From our side, we have everything what it takes.

Okay, great. Thank you.

Thank you very much. The next question is from Linus Arlentum. Please go ahead, Linus.

Hi, and good morning, Bodil and Oskar. Just a few quick questions here from me. I was just wondering, just to get a better sense of this roughly six percentage points margin drop here, if you could try to just... give some indication of how much here is from volume, the leverage and mix.

Thank you, that's a very good question. I would say that it's actually approximately 50-50 between the volume drop and the mix. So some of the businesses that we had last year was very profitable. And of course, when that volume has gone down, it has a very negative impact on the profitability. But then in general, if we lose volume, it comes, of course, with lower profitability bottom line as well. So I would say it's approximately 50%.

All right, and another question here, sort of on the fixed cost base here. I saw that S&A expenses stayed roughly flat, while sales fell 6%. I'm just wondering here, what is your cost flexibility here? And I mean, when can we expect a meaningful reduction in the cost base to align with the current market conditions and the revenue levels?

I think that's also a very good question. SG&A is not a variable cost. It's typically mainly payroll related and that is something you're not adjusting from quarter to quarter but we're basing that investment or the spend on the future volumes to come and to ensure successful in the sales processes going forward so I think looking backwards yes it looks like it has gone up in relation to top line but the to your point, it's very much the same amount as last year. So I'm not commenting on the future development on it, but I think it's a good reflection you're doing. And then we will base, of course, investments or spending in sales and other functions on our strategic review and the conclusions we're making in that process.

All right all right I'm just guessing since I mean as you've stated I mean demand is still or visibility is still very low you don't see any change so I mean that's why I asked but thanks for the answer. Another question I mean you said that the strategic review here is underway and that the office segment here is pretty slow week.

our divestment here on the table then i think we it's good that you're asking question i think we need to come back to it again and we can't say more about what what what we're doing today so we'll come back to you as soon as we're ready to present okay all right all right that was all for me thanks for taking my questions here

Thanks. The next question is from Albin Nordmark from SB1 Markets. Please go ahead, Albin.

Thanks for that, Albin, here. Just a follow-up here. I think the answer on Linus' question was that gross margin, was that on gross margin, that lower volume versus sales in this box, what just stands each for? Is that correct?

It's difficult to hear you, Albin. Can you repeat your question?

Can you hear me now better?

Yeah.

Yeah. So just to follow up on Lina's question, just to verify, was the gross margin decline 50% volume and 50% sales?

Exactly. So, I mean, it's...

That's the first question. The next question is, how is the sales mix in the order backlog? Is that in relationship to Q1 now? Is the sales mix the same or is it better or worse?

That's a very good question. I actually need to get back to you on that. I don't dare to say I haven't made an analysis yet.

All right, all right. Understood.

You didn't answer in your first question, Albin, that the mix, that the... Yeah. Yeah, okay, good.

That it was 50-50. And then maybe I didn't get the last question, but anyway, how much of the order backlog is delivered now in the second quarter? Yeah.

I mean, we don't count in that way because we continue to fill up order backlog every day. So it's a combination of different parts. So you can't say that in that order backlog we're having, parts will be delivered in Q2 and parts might be projects which have longer times. But what is important to remember with our order backlog, which has been holding through all the time through as long as I've been here, is that all our order backlog is always related to specific projects. So it's not a generalized backlog, but it's always tagged to specific projects. It's a very stable order backlog.

Yeah, good. I think that was all for me. Thank you.

Hey, thank you, Albin. There are no more questions from the telcos. I hand the word back to you, Niklas, for written questions.

Thank you very much, Einar. And thank you to all of you who asked questions over the telephone. We have a question here. Cash flow has declined to MSEC 160 with lower sales and therefore a lower working capital. I would expect a lower cash requirement. Does it really make sense to buy more components? Yes, to head off price increases. And there's an additional question to this one. Will you need to renegotiate your banking components?

Yeah, very good. Thank you for that question. And I think the price increases, as we said, when it comes to certain raw material and components has gone up a little bit more than we expected in Q4. So we made a decision early in Q1 to build up a little bit of an inventory to mitigate some of that margin impact going forward, which I think was a very good decision. One can question if it was the right decision, but we don't expect that inventory to stay on the balance sheet for more than one and a half quarter. So we will get that money back soon. So I think what has impacted the working capital as well on top of inventory is the fact that we actually from an invoicing point of view or a sales point of view, we ended up being quite back-end heavy. So instead of getting AR in January that was paid in February or March, We ended up with a little bit higher volume in March. But I don't see any issue with this. I expect it to come back to the same level as previous quarter in the next quarter. And on the question if we need to renegotiate our banking covenants. So we did reach... our interest coverage covenant in Q1. However, as also stated in the Q1 report, subsequent to the balance sheet date, we reached an agreement with our external lenders that allows us the financing to continue under the agreed terms. So that's behind us.

Thank you very much, Oskar. And here's an additional question. The smart lighting provider Plaid is taking market share in smaller commercial buildings, both with luminaries and smart solutions. How would you manage that competition?

I think first, when you look at it, We are, if you look into the market for the Fagerholt Group, we are not in smaller commercial buildings. If we are, it's very, very limited. I mean, we are in the high and medium to enterprise markets. That's where we're playing. So I would say it's very, very rare that we meet play. And I actually see a positive with it, and that is that When you look into smart and what I said before about EPBD, I think very often the ignorance is our biggest competitor. So what Plaid is also doing is that they're helping to educate the market about the benefits of smart. And I think that is... is really important and will be good for the market for smart in general, then I think if you compare smart to our system, it's like comparing a system for a private home or a very, very small office, for example, with us who are doing enterprise solutions. So you can't really compare the two offerings. It's not the same market or the same solutions that we are doing.

Thank you very much, Bodil. And I would say that concludes today's webcast. And thank you, everyone that was joining us today. And we wish you all a continued good day. Goodbye.