Ferroamp AB (publ)

Hej och välkomna till dagens webcast från Feramp. Jag heter Kent Jonsson och är vd och jag har med mig William Ryan som är vår CFO. Jag kommer att hålla i presentationen och William kommer att vara med och svara på frågor på slutet. As usual, I will try to go through this relatively quickly and focus on the questions you have. You can post them in the chat or email us. For those of you who are new, very briefly. Fairrump, we offer the smartest solution in the market. for the optimization of solar production, storage of energy and electricity charging. We also have energy distribution between properties. We update the software constantly so that you always have a modern system. We stand for Swedish quality and we have a high security around our products. I will move on to two pictures about the market that I usually show. The first one here comes from Svensk Solenergi. This is the most relevant to look at, it is the dark green. There you can see during 2024-2025 that it has gone down, but that it has stabilized somewhat during 2025. So it's a relatively stable level under 2025. A small decline, but nothing dramatic. The next one comes from the tax office. There we have statistics from charging points, which we see is stable between 2024 and 2025. You can see that the batteries increase quite a lot year after year, all the way from 2022 and forward, even 2025. Solar cells go down between 2024 and 2025. Which events during the year? I'm going to list three things. Two from 2025, which is a little about LV Ära and our agreement with Vattenfall. Then one point from the current quarter, about the three-phase backup. I start with our cooperation with Vattenfall. This is about our products becoming part of Vattenfall's supply, which Vattenfall will offer to its customers. This is a very important strategic step for Faro Amp. I think above all that this is a quality mark. It has been a long evaluation, a serious evaluation of us as leverantör till Vattenfall och vi har genomgått den och får nu vara en del av portföljen. Så det här är, tycker jag, en kvalitetsdämpel från ett stort och välrenomerat bolag som Vattenfall. Det visar också systemnyttan då, där vi kan erbjuda nytta både till fastighetsägare och elnätsägare samtidigt. Det här gör ju att vi blir extra relevant for a company like Vattenfall, which of course also wants to use the facilities to support the network. We plan a sales start for this under Q2 this year. Elvi and Ära, we have talked about it being in progress, now it is in progress. We have made the first customer installations under Q4. Det stod för blygsamma 2 miljoner av vårt kvartals omsättning i Q4. Vi ser att det är en tydlig upprampning under innevarande kvartal. Så det ser positivt volymmässigt ut framöver. What is good about Elvi and Ära is that it does not compete with our traditional channels, i.e. installers and distributors, so there is no cannibalization there. We see that Elvi reaches other customer groups who seek more security than anything else, perhaps unpredictability. Ära opens up new markets for us. We talked about UK and Italy as well as Germany. So it's not a cannibalization of our base sales or our basic sales. Then we had now under the Elmia fair. There we had a big, nice Monter. I can probably say that we were with marginals the most visited Monter without us offering some free stuff, but we actually had a lot of interest in our products. We also launched a three-phase backup. I think this is exciting because it has a flexibility and a modularity that we really like, which is in our DNA. And this one can of course use a stationary battery and run a whole villa for one to two days approximately. But there are also opportunities to connect your vehicle to grid charger and use your car battery, which is often significantly larger than the stationary battery. And then you can run your house for at least one and a half weeks. And then you have the opportunity to go to an area in the vicinity that still has the e-net running. And then you can do fast charging there and go back and continue to charge and run your house. And then, if it takes time, you also have the opportunity to connect a simple model of an electric generator. And then you can drive it for as long as you want. And this, as usual, works with both new and old preamp systems. Maybe the most important thing with this is that we really have to achieve simplicity and cost-effectiveness during installation. Normally, when you are going to install a backup solution, you get problems with landings. It can often cost 20-25 thousand, a lot of digging work and a lot of installations to get a landings. Den här tekniska lösningen använder en helt annan metodik och här räcker det med ett simpelt järnrör egentligen, 50 cm långt som man bara stoppar ner i rabatten eller genom gräsmattan. Så en väldigt enkel installation och billigt så att det är bra teknisk höjd good functionality with a sustainable backup. But maybe above all, the installation is very simple and cost effective. Some financial figures then. Q4 was a strong quarter, up 95% compared to Q4 previous year. And here I would like to point out again that this is mainly our regular channels, i.e. our base sales, where we, thanks to a very focused way of work, have managed to start our regular channels. that we know and have worked with for a long time. So the absolute largest increase is regular channels. The new partnerships, mainly Elvi and Ära, are worth 2 million out of this increase. Bruttomarginalen är fortfarande inte tillfredsställande. Jag har ju sagt att ett sådant bolag som oss ska ligga norr om 40% när allting är normalt. Nu är inte allt normalt för oss. Vi har fortfarande kvar lager, vilket gör att vi säljer onaturligt mycket batterier och batterier har vi en lägre marginal på, och ska ha en lägre marginal på, jämfört våra egna produkter. Så det kommer att rätta till sig när lagen hos distributörerna försvinner under det här året. Sen så har vi också nya produkter på väg ut, så att när vi börjar att få ner lagerna här, så kommer vi att gradvis börja introducera nya produkter som har a completely different cost structure. So they are cost-optimized in a completely different way. So those two factors will, over time, give us a significantly better gross margin. But unfortunately, we are left here for another moment. EBITDA. It went up to minus two million, a clear improvement compared to previous years. Vi har tittat tillbaka hela vägen till början av det här bolaget och vi hittar inget bättre kvartal. Det är fortfarande under noll, minusresultat, men det går definitivt åt rätt håll. Det ser bra ut. The main driver in this is the cost savings and the higher turnover we have, but we have succeeded very well with the cost savings. We have taken it up earlier and I think it still feels good. We have no immediate costs that we will attract, but we see that we have a very end-to-end organization that works very well and we will continue to keep track of the costs while we then pursue an even higher turnover in the future. The cash flow then, there we have had a target of to reach an operational positive cash flow. Now we have been close to two quarters on the straight line, but unfortunately we are a little on the minus side. But also here a big improvement over time. We also see that the cash flow during the year has been loaded with 8 million from a tax rate. Det är den enda skulden vi har kvar. Det är nu kvar 16 miljoner att betala över två år. Det här är det vanliga covid-uppskovet som många företag fick under covid-epidemin. Vi följer den avbetalningsplan som är satt. Som sagt var det 16 miljoner kvar, fyra installments under två år. We also received large deliveries of batteries in December that have affected the warehouse so that the warehouse has increased thanks to that. This is a battery that will be replaced during quarter one this year. And as I have said earlier, in time now that we will start selling a larger share of our own products in sales and that sales increase we will take more goods from our own warehouse. These are finished products that have already been paid, so we will get an extra margin on the cash flow in the future as sales increase. The focus is unchanged since the previous quarter. It is about increasing in the existing channels, i.e. our basic sales that we talked about earlier. At the same time, we also support Elvi and Ära in their sales increases. As I said, we see a clear upheaval during the current quarter. It looks positive for the rest of the year. We are also working to increase the gross margin in the way I said, and continue to keep up with the costs. Development. Där har vi nu integrationsarbete mot några större partners. Elvi och Ära, men även Vattenfall och några till. Vi kommer att vidareutveckla de stöd- och optimeringstjänster vi har. De fungerar bra idag. Jag skulle säga att det är marknadens bästa. Men vi ska fortsätta utveckla dem under året. Then we will release next generation cost-optimized products. Then I actually think that 2026 will be the year when it starts to move on, for real, with Vehicles Grid. And we are positioned very well there. We have a very good product, I would say, that fits very well into our ecosystem. It's about jacking it up to be able to get the backup opportunity I'm talking about per automatic. To be able to get the connection to solar cells and a stationary battery in normal operation per automatic. To be able to use your car battery to cut effect tops and other things. I see that there are other solutions, but they do single functions. I think what is nice about our solution is that it fits into the system and becomes an integrated part and can contribute with benefits to a number of areas. So I think this is the right way to go. It will be a relatively expensive investment for customers and then I think it is important that you get the benefit of that investment in several areas and not just one single area. Ja, jag slutar där och öppnar för frågor.

Ja, och då vill jag bara påminna igen om att man kan ställa frågor direkt i chatten eller via mail på public at fairramp.se. Jag har fått lite frågor på mailen som jag börjar med en därifrån. Hur ser ni på behovet av ny finansiering för närmsta kvartalen?

Yes, as we have written in the report, we are in final negotiations with one of Sweden's leading banks regarding movement financing. This gives us increased security, I would say. Den här är planerad för att tillfälligt stärka kassaflödet under perioder då vi kommer att rampa upp produktion etc. Vi har en stor tro på vår egen förmåga att under året börja generera kassaflöde. I would say that when we get a movement of financing in place via a leading bank, then I feel that there is an increased security. Here and now, I don't see any need for any new financing.

Vad räknar ni med för intäkter från Elvi och Era under Q1 2026?

Betydligt högre än i Q4 kan jag säga. Men det var blygt som var 2 miljoner. Men jag vill inte spekulera i det. Så jag ser pass på den frågan. Hur stor är orderstocken? Ja, vi kommenterar aldrig på orderstocken, men jag skulle säga att orderstocken är normal, givet den situationen vi är i. Vi har en normal orderstock, skulle jag säga. Den ser betydligt bättre ut än vad den gjorde i samma tid föregående år. Det kan jag säga.

Efter en längre tid av lager ska supplykedjan startas igen och rampas upp. Hur går upprampningen? Ser ni utmaningar med det eller långa leveranstider?

Jag kan väl säga så här att vi var ju igenom en tuff period som många andra under komponentbristen 2022-2023 samt en marknad som svängde ganska fort där, vilket... Which can be hard for a company like us, who made things with long deadlines. We have learned a lot, extremely much, I should say. We are in a completely different place today in terms of competence, and we have already started some parts of production, some products, and it's going well, I should say. I am much calmer than I have been before about this issue.

How does the underlying demand for installations look like?

I think it looks okay. I would not want to say that we have any clear resumption. It feels like we have gotten something out and that it can start to turn a little bit. And these are similar comments. You hear from many who get this question. So I agree with the rest about what the sentiment is in the market, that it is carefully optimistic, it is underlying. But what we have done during Q4 is that we have succeeded better in the market that we have been in. And I see that we will work hard to continue to succeed better, even if the market does not turn. So I see that we have no direct connection och något sådant omedelbart behov av en större vändning i marknaden, utan vi ska klara och göra ett bra jobb på nuvarande marknad. Sen om den vänder, vi ser en tydlig vändning under året, så blir det en positiv effekt för oss. Men ja, jag ser den inte än och vi räknar inte med den.

Är samarbetet med Vattenfall för fler marknader än Sverige

In the current situation, it is Sweden that I'm talking about.

Do you see any increased interest from European countries in terms of energy security in Europe and the geopolitical situation in general?

Absolutely. I notice that a lot. There has been awareness about that we have been a little naive, in general, in many areas, including the electricity security area, that is, to be able to secure energy supply. We have been naive there too, I think, to man's. We are doing well, because we have always had a high security mindset, so we have a very good position, which I think is appreciated by partners who think long-term and who have a great interest in maintaining a high security around energy supply. I would say Vattenfall Jansson. They keep it high. They are very competent, very talented. It was a very tough evaluation we went through during the larger part of last year. And even though it was hard, it made me It is hopeful that Sweden will have a stable and secure power grid, but also that we are in the right position with our security plans. On a larger level, there are EU initiatives where we want to secure European hardware and software critical parts of society, for example electricity supply. There is an initiative now from France, a law proposal called Made in Europe, where the proposal is that there should be a significant share of the components that are made in Europe. I think this is completely right from a Swedish and European perspective. and at the same time joyful, because I think that we are very well positioned in such a development.

How are the collaborations with Aira and Elvi going? Can you tell us more about the expansion?

Jag vill inte berätta mer än att vi har kommit igång 2 miljoner i Q4 och att vi ser en tydlig upprampning under Q1. Kring deras planer och deras upprampning och deras omsättningsvolymer, det får jag hänvisa till Elvi respektive Ära. But we see from our perspective that it is going well. There is a positive development among these companies from our horizon. They are exciting companies that we believe in a lot.

How have the deliveries gone during Q4? Have you had any problems with deliveries to customers?

I would not say that we have had any notable problem. Utan vi har kunnat hantera det där bra. Vi är på en helt annan nivå när det handlar både om produktion och att göra prognoser. Så att jag skulle säga att det är tillfredsställande.

Är Ferro Amps nya produkt för backup kompatibel med gamla installerade växelriktare och hur stor är potentialen för försäljning i befintliga system?

It is absolutely compatible, just like our vehicle-to-grid charger and everything else. It is not obvious if you look at our competitors, where it is about buying a completely new box, a completely new system. With us, you can take your five-year-old system and look at it, and you can upgrade it with the help of backup vehicle-to-grid and with less AI to be able to optimize and use it as a fully modern system. So that's one of our strengths and we're building on that here. The potential then, well, it's hard to say. I think this will become more and more important. I think the geopolitical situation, will make more people want to get a security against power outages. And then I actually think that spring is a very logical and good solution, where you can then choose one to two days, then you can upgrade the WKG in one and a half weeks. And then also a diesel generator or a gasoline-powered generator in the future. So there are opportunities to build it out. So I think it's a good solution to start with and the opportunity to grow with it. So I think there is potential, but exactly how much it is, it's hard to say.

It has been a good sales start at least.

You have a very strong sales from your own channels. How much do you dare to extrapolate this figure in the future?

Well, I can't answer that. I would say that we are realistic in our plans, above all. And I see that the basic sales will will develop positively during this year. And we hope for the new channels, LVR and also Vattenfall during the year, which will end up above the basic sales. But how much it will be at the end of the day, it's hard to say. You have to remember that there is a seasonal variation in this as well, so Q1 is a weak quarter compared to the rest. January and February so far have been cold. Snow, ice on the roof, difficult to install. There are seasonal variations in this too. But with that said, it feels significantly better than the previous year, Q1.

Is there a risk that Q4 was driven by a lack of supply rather than the demand for end customers? No, I would say. You mentioned that the market recovery has been slower than expected. What do you see concretely now in the order book compared to before? Do you see any difference between segments, for example villa, BRF, commercially?

Yes, we see an increase, absolutely. And it is as usual in such cycles that those who have the shortest decision paths are the villa owners, so they see the recovery as the fastest. B2B, you have to go through an open process and sometimes public treatment, etc. etc. So there is a longer decision process there, but we also see that the demand has increased there as well.

In connection with the Q3 report, you announced that the first installations started at 11 November and that you estimated to factor in 7 million in Q4. What is the reason that this did not happen?

Det har blivit fördröjt skulle jag säga. Det handlar inte om någon cancellering eller något i den stilen. Så det finns egentligen ingen dramatik i det här eller ingen dramatik alls. Utan det är att det har blivit fördröjt. Inte så bevånande egentligen. Vi... Ja, det finns en massa anledningar till att det blir fördröjningar. Men det är inget dramatiskt, inget oroväckande, utan det är volymen som har glidit över till kvartal ett i år.

Från första januari 2026 så kräver Boverket att batterianläggningar över 20 kilowatt har sitt eget brandfartbranncell. Hur tror ni detta påverkar försäljningen av batterier över 20 kilowatt?

Yes, we'll see during the spring, but I think it can be a small sales peak before it starts to grow. So we're counting on a peak during Q2, and then maybe there will be a certain decline during Q3, because there has been an unnatural high sales of larger batteries during Q2. Then I think we are back to normal levels in Q4, I would say. And then I think you have found good solutions, because today I think there is a little varying quality in the solutions, and then I mainly talk about the functionality with heating of batteries. Det kostar väldigt mycket att hålla ett batteri varmt med värmeslingor med ett dåligt isolerat batteri. Det äter upp hela förtjänsten och medel till på nyttjandet av batteriet. Håller man batteriet kallt i avvaktan på att man ska använda det, då har man en ställtid på 3-4 timmar och får det uppvärmt. Då blir det inte användbart av den anledningen. So I think that there will be a lot of discussion here now, before next winter, about the use of batteries and the quality and functionality of batteries. Because there is no customer who wants to keep a battery warm at an incredibly high cost. At the same time, there is no one who wants to keep it cold and have a set time of 3-4 hours because then it is relatively worthless to be able to cut effect tops etc. So I think that an important question now about larger batteries that must be outdoors or outside the house becomes just these two questions and it revolves around smart upvärmning, smart funktionalitet kring batteriet. Vi har några bra lösningar där som vi tror mycket på, men det får vi återkomma till senare.

Du säger att det börjar röra sig inom VQX det här året. Kan ni konkretisera vilka tecken ni ser? Vad krävs för att större volymer ska ta fart?

Vi har diskussioner och haft under flera år med olika biltillverkare och vi ser väl i de dialogerna utan att nämna någon specifik biltillverkare att det finns starka tecken på att En eller flera kommer att öppna upp sina bilar för att kunna agera på vehicle to grid marknaden eller vehicle to X då. Så att funktionaliteten kommer att öppnas upp och jag tror åtminstone en kommer att göra innan sommaren. Och när en gör det, då kommer de andra följa efter. Det som är frågan är ju då, kommer man att ha Is it completely open so that you will allow different manufacturers of chargers so that you follow the existing standard? Or will you have a closed system, i.e. car manufacturer X has one charger that only works with car manufacturer X and no other? That's one of the big questions. I really hope that they don't create closed systems. Because it will hinder the growth on the market. There's no one who wants to buy, or I think there are very few who want to buy a grid charger for relatively expensive money now in the beginning, which only works with one car brand. Because you might want to change car brands from now on. Man kanske säljer sitt hus och då kanske kommer någon med en annat bilmärke och då funkar inte investeringen. Då blir den värdelös. Så jag tror att det kommer. Minst en innan sommaren. Och jag håller tummarna för att det blir så att man följer de standard som finns kring vehicles grid.

Följdfråga på det här. Out of our own vehicle-to-grid chargers, will we integrate other vehicle-to-grid chargers from car manufacturers or other chargers?

One of our principles is that we believe in open systems. We are very open to other vehicle-to-grid manufacturers who want to connect to our ecosystem. Vi har öppna APIer och är väldigt öppna och hjälpsamma kring seriösa spelare med både hårdvara och mjukvara som vill koppla in sig på vårt ekosystem. Vi tror att det här gynnar våra existerande kunder och det kommer stärka vårt erbjudande mot nya kunder också. Vi ser väldigt positivt på det och vi hoppas att There will be some more chargers. If you look at the AC side, the regular chargers, there we work with basically all of the big brands. We have the ambition that we will also work with all the serious WKT grid chargers over time. That is our strategy. So we have followed so far and we will follow it also at the VK3 area.

Do you have any other new essential customers besides LV, Aero and Vattenfall that are expected to affect sales during 2026?

We have dialogues with some others, but there is nothing I can mention here.

Hur stora lager finns kvar hos grossister och installatörer? När räknar ni med att lagren är normaliserade?

Det varierar. Vi har en, två som är normaliserade. Så har vi väl några som inte är normaliserade riktigt än. Det är svårt. Det hänger ihop med försäljningen. Försäljningen är det som tömmer lagren. Om försäljningen går bra, Then it happens sometime during the year. If it goes a little slower, then it's towards the end of the year or the beginning of next year. So it's completely linked to sales. So if, for example, Vattenfall or Elvi succeeds very well here in Sweden, then it will of course benefit the legal situation.

There are reports of financial challenges for Aira. Is there anything that you notice in the short term and have your forecasts changed?

I can't comment on any details on those things, of course. But from our perspective and my perspective, I think Aira is a good company. Vi har jobbat med dem ganska länge nu. Jag gillar deras strategi. De har en väldigt tydlig marknadsposition. Jag tycker de är kompetenta i det de gör, i alla våra relationer. Proffsiga, kompetenta. Så bra att jobba med. Jag har bara på sig lite att säga om RO. I think the figures they have released officially about their sales development shows that there is a customer demand window. I have no worries about Arrow. I think it will succeed. We will do everything to support them with our cross-border and over-equipment. Det känns positivt, tycker jag.

Kan ni berätta mer om avseendefinansiering med en av Sveriges ledande banker? Vad är det för typ av finansiering och hur ni avser att utnyttja den?

Som sagt, vi får återkomma mer i detalj. Det är nära och det är en rörelsefinansiering. Den ska primärt användas för att täcka upp tillfälliga pikar i kapitalbehov, likt produktionsuppstart och så vidare. Vi får återkomma kring det när det är klart. It is in long-term negotiations.

How much of the Q4 sales was made of batteries?

Bigger or smaller than usual? Bigger than a normal stock. But the same as earlier this year. So there has been a stable mix this year. But as I said earlier, it is not the normal mix. The last normal mix we had was in 2023.

Can Energy Hub installations already in Q1-Q2 start to give a clear marginal effect? One more time. Can Energy Hub installations already in Q1-Q2 give a marginal effect?

I would say from new products, that aspect. No, I would say from product mix. Yes, it can be so that it becomes a little more own products. Jag vill nog inte säga att jag ser framför mig någon stor marginal, bruttomarginalförstärkning under Q1 och Q2.

Den kommer, men den kommer senare.

En fråga här. Hur skiljer sig installationen av backup från konkurrenters lösning? Hur mycket billigare blir installationen med Ferroam?

Yes, I would say that the hardware itself, including the earth welding, is in pairs with others. If you look at earthworks, offers that I have seen, they can be 20-25,000. It's a mining job we're talking about. And if you're on a Kulle till exempel med mycket sten, då hittar du inte, då går det inte att få backup med en vanlig lösning. Har du mycket sand likadant, då går det nästan inte att hitta jord. Då blir det nej egentligen. Men jag skulle säga en normalsvård, 20-25 000 extra för en annan lösning jämfört med vår.

Har ni möjlighet att styra utrustning via Modbus? Ja.

Ja, det var egentligen den sista frågan. Om det inte är något mer som byggs upp nu så får vi tacka för bra och många frågor. Tack.