GomSpace Group AB (publ)

Welcome to today's event where we have the pleasure to present CommSpace. To help us through today's presentation and answer questions in the end, we are joined by CEO Carsten Rachmann, Today's presentation, of course, covering your full year, 25 results fresh from press this morning. But also, I think through the questions, we will get through a lot of the news flow you had during the year. As always, there's a box down below. You can ask questions, both in Danish and English. I will try and translate the Danish one the best of my ability. There's already a lot of questions in. See if it's asked in some kind of way. But do feel free to ask questions. It's my job to make sure I get them collected. But for now, I will hand the stage to you, Carsten.

Thank you very much and welcome to our Q4 and full year announcement here and presentation. I will talk about, of course, the Q4 and the full year result. We'll talk a bit about the outlook 2026 that we have shared with you earlier. A few highlights, maybe a trip down a memory lane here. Something on the outlook, strategic outlook, some of the trends I see in the market, and how we're going to run 2026, where there are some changes that you have seen earlier with more business units. So let's dive into it. straight into the numbers, fourth quarter. Well, best quarter we've had so far, 145 million SEK in revenue. That's pretty solid. It's up 75% year-on-year compared to the same period the last year. Looking at EBITDA, also actually at a record high for the quarter. So very, very happy with that. It's really trending towards where we want to be with the margin levels of this 8%, 9%, 10% that we are seeing. Free cash flow quite decent I would say despite some delayed payments are we getting back to so minus 16.5 million all together makes this a pretty good quarter and also helping us to deliver on all the guidance that we have given. Let's take a look at the full year, 2025. Well, first of all, top line, again, 441, 442 million SEC for the year. Great, it's up 72% on 2024. Very happy with that. If you compare it to the market, just to put it into perspective, the compound average growth for the market is 14% plus minus for satellites, companies delivering satellites less than 500 kilos. That's us in GOM space. So we are well outperforming the market growth. So very happy with that. We'll keep our eye on that. But further to this, what I think is worthwhile noticing, a full year EBITDA around 53 million. That's good. We haven't actually, we have not really delivered a positive, where we've delivered a close to zero EBITDA before, but this is the first time we offer this level. It's 9%. 9% EBITDA. If you take the adjusted, it's closer to 12%. But what's remarkable about it is that this is actually pretty well in line with the industry. There are quite many companies, quite many of our peers are not making money yet. So they don't have a positive EBITDA. they're still investing a lot and they are not able to to make money so we're on a pretty good level and if you if you look out broader in the industry it is around this 9 10 12 to 13 14 is that range you're in the ones that have a higher margins have perhaps been around a longer time and have have bigger turnovers So it's very, very decent, and I think it's a good level for us to stay on, also with the growth plans that we're having, trying to keep that level and really focusing on growing. Cash flow, free cash flow, minus 95 million, as you say, at home where I live, Scheidenheiser. That's not, of course, what we had planned for, but there's a very good reason for it that I'd like to take you through. It's a temporary impact. We have a customer who also has 145 million SEC, outstanding invoices. Why? Well, they are in a capital race situation right now, and this has simply taken longer. We are very, very close. We have a very good relationship with this customer. I am in contact with them every day. They have a strong business case. I believe firmly in the business case that they're doing. And they have a lot of international, big international customers, including government customers. So I have a strong business case, but there is a delay in a capital raise. And then we can say, okay, what do we do about that? So first of all, this is purely related to the customer in a capital raise situation. We have delivered a scum space. There's nothing we haven't delivered. Everything is delivered according to contract and delivered according to milestone. But through our very good relationship and because we strongly believe that the customer is going to be very successful, we have secured necessary collateral for this. We also have a payment plan that's going to help until they have raised the big money that they're looking for. And without being able to say too much, this customer, the amount of money they're raising, what they owe us is nothing. So once they get to their fundraise, this is not going to be a problem at all. And we have secured ourselves. Further to this, if you look at, okay, that aside, how are we then doing as Gump Space? We're doing fine. We have more than 200 million SEC in a bank account at the end of the year. So this enables us to continue to execute into 2026, focused on growth, focused on further investments, focused on expanding in the world. We'll get back to some of the points. So altogether, not what we had obviously planned for, but we have mitigated it and I'm very pleased with the relationship we have with our customer. If you do the math a little bit, add 145 to the 95, then we actually had plus 50 million free cash flow for the year. It's pretty good. That means everything else has actually played out the way that we wanted it to. Okay, let's break it down a bit into business. This is also quite interesting, I think. So if you look at our programs business unit, remember the contract business where we built the contracts, it's 12 months, 24 months, three years contracts that we're building. So the revenue has gone up more than 100% from 147%. million sec to 300 million sec. So that's very good. We also see products going up 34%. Products are transactional business where it's not on long contracts, but we deliver products immediately after the customer has ordered, has gone up. This is also where we have a very solid margin. So we are happy with that. North America at par. We'll get back to the auto intake in a second. I still firmly believe North America is the right place for us to be. We're not worried about tariffs and all of those kind of things. We are worried about getting more and more traction. And this is what we're working on. If you see where's the money coming from, where programs is delivering about 30, 31 million of our EBITDA products, 26, and then North America still at a negative EBITDA, that's okay. It will take some time. I'm totally comfortable with that, and this is fine. Jumping into the order backlog, if you break that down. So order backlog means what is in our order book. And we are comparing to what we had in the order book at the end of 2024. So now 12 months later. So if you look at the programs, so our contract business has basically gone up about 11%. So we started 2025, coming into that with about 300 million in order backlog. We have then executed and delivered. We have recognized the revenue to bring us up to the very good result we have right now. But through that, we have closed more business also. So the net is at the end of 2025, we have 336. So we have more order backlog going into 2026 than we had for 2025. Good. Products. This is at par. And to note here that, yes, it's gone down a little bit, but it's really, we deliver quickly. We will never have a big order backlog here. Actually, we want to deliver faster and faster. The market is expecting us to deliver not in three, four months, but preferably within a month, two months tops, even down to weeks. So this is, and that means we'll never have a fast backlog. We shouldn't have because then we're not fast enough in delivering. So the reflection here, it is more or less at par with last year, which is fine. It will go a little bit over time, but it's better. It's more important to be shifted out quickly. Now coming to North America, they had a great deal coming in at the end of last year. There was announcements on that. So as you can see where North America last year started at around 6, 7 million in order backlog, we are now at more than 22 million in order backlog, obviously implying that, hey, this is a good start for 2026. Still work to be done. Absolutely. No doubt about that. But of course, it's nice to go into the year with a stronger backlog. If you look at it overall, our backlog has increased 13%. So we do have a stronger starting point going into 2026 overall. Okay, so let's talk more about 2026. What does it look like? This is what we have shared earlier that press releases has been out. So you have this information, but let me repeat it. We believe we'll have a profitable growth. We believe we will increase to midpoint about 30%. We are giving a guidance of 540 to 640 compared to the 441, 42 that we have right now. So about 100 million more is what we are guiding on We believe that we will be able to do that with a diesel margin from 5% to 12%. We are now on the EBITDA margin. We are now at 9%. As I explained, this is pretty okay from an industry standard and benchmark perspective. And also we are quite confident we can deliver that. If you remember last year, we gave initial guidance was minus two to plus 10. We were not sure if we could deliver a positive EpiDy in the beginning of the year. We are quite sure that we can deliver it this year. So hence the guidance here. We will have a negative cash flow. This is driven though by investments, significant investments that we want to do. We simply have to do this to capture the future, to capture the momentum, to support long-term value creation. Of course, I can hold on to the money for a long time, but it's not gonna benefit us. It's not gonna benefit our investors either. We have to grow and now capture the fantastic momentum that we have in the market. It also gives us the flexibility we need, so we need to have enough working capital to run our projects, but at the same time to do more developments and do more satellites. So altogether, 2025 highlights, we have a strengthened balance sheet. Remember, we took capital in in the middle of the year from Peter Hargreaves. We also have a credit facility of about 74 million. We have a commercial momentum right now where we see, for example, we took a large contract for satellites, 18 satellites earlier in the year. And we have good traction on the product sales. So this is helping us generating the numbers, the revenue, the EBITDA is all helping us. We are now in a much more stable situation than we've been before. It never ends in terms of developing the business. There will always be things that need to be managed. We always have to look forward and do more and more and more. That's clear. But compared to where we came from, we are in a much more solid position. And we have a strong backlog. We have cash in bank. And we have a market that's growing. So it's quite OK. At the end of the year, you probably noticed we closed a contract with a defense contractor, European defense contractor, one of the bigger ones. We can't disclose the name. But we do see a trend towards more defense contracts. Some of the contracts actually we have in Singapore are also defense related. So that's great. We also signed the first part, mind you, it was just the first part of a contract for lunar exploration with a North American company. This is about going out to the moon and mapping it out and looking for minerals and water. There's a lot more of that coming and this is a great program that we are starting up now. And as you just saw on the 2026 guidance, we have about 30% year-on-year revenue growth is our expectation. And here's credits to all of you out there listening and buying into Gump Space. Look at this. We are now in First North 25 index. That's great. So out of about 450, 500 companies, we are in the guiding index for First North growth market. That's great. We were also part of, we were top 10 on Nordnet in terms of most traded share. Great. I've got nothing to do with that. That's all on you. So that's very, very good. So overall, a good recognition in the market as well for us. And I'm, of course, obviously pleased with that. And I'm very, very happy that you trust us and that you're investing in GOM Space. So thank you for that. Okay, strategic outlook. I'll pause a second. I don't know how well you can see the pictures, but this is a fantastic picture that we have up from, I believe it's over Greenland up here. So this is amazing. um so uh why would you invent in gump space well you're investing in the future of space we come space we're right in the middle of this we built these small satellites that really makes a difference for environments for security for all kind of surveillance it it is it is definitely space is here to stay for the future So I'm going to give you some of my guidance I've given before. There's no doubt that space is frontline in defence. Absolutely. No questions asked. It is absolutely there. And we see more and more budgets, national budgets, going towards defence. I know there's some questions on what is Denmark doing. We can talk about that later. Germany is a good example of 35 billion euros over the next five years for space. That is a lot. Governments are shifting from services to sovereign assets. They will still buy these satellites as a service kind of thing, but there is a tendency towards, hey, we want to control it. Ukraine is a good example of Starlink and Elon Musk. Okay, then they closed down, so there was no communication, then they have a problem. And it's clear we start to understand that when we can no longer completely trust our neighbors across the Atlantic or to the east, we have to have some control ourselves of those space assets, which helps us with security and surveillance and especially the national interest. So we'll see a trend towards more control from government on that. That's good for commspace. End-to-end solutions is important. It's not just here's the satellite, thank you very much, but I don't know what to do with it. There is a trend towards also broader solutions that we are looking at. We will see more of these multi-year constellations coming up. It's always been the dream in the industry, big constellations, everybody want them. It's taken some time, there are a few, but we see more and more coming, not just for communication purposes, can also be for surveillance and other things. So we do see a growth driven by more and more satellites going up. Deep space lunar missions are there. We are closing the first part of the lunar mission. We still have our Juventus satellite flying out to the asteroid far away. I think it still has another seven, eight months to go. So that's ongoing. And everything about deep space around the moon is also growing. It's not gonna be in huge volumes as such, but it's definitely a lot of money going that way. And we are very well positioned to be part of that journey. We would see an increasing product revenue because the market is going up and the products, the bits and pieces of the satellite that we are selling is required. So even if there are contracts that we don't win on our satellite business, others will win them. We will sell to others. So we will also see a revenue growth here. Scalability is important, ability to scale up and the ability to deliver faster. We do see a demand for faster deliveries. We do see a demand for being able to produce in volume. If you look behind me here, I hope you can see a little bit. It's a bit of a mess. We are building more facilities so we can produce more satellites and also bigger satellites. And it simply requires more equipment and We have a very huge vibration table, as it's called, that has to go in here. So this is what's happening right behind me. It's not because we didn't clean up. It's because we're in the middle of expanding. And then the roll-up and consolidation will be there. We have seen it already. There are mergers, acquisitions. There are more joint ventures and partnerships coming in. This is also what will happen in the market and obviously something that we are looking at as well as GOM Space. Market growth, 14% in average on a 9.6 billion US dollars. This is for satellites less than 500 kilos. You can research a bit yourself. There are a number of different reports out there, but the consensus seems to be in that range here. So how do we make a difference? Well, national and defense solutions, absolutely working there. Marine domain awareness, this also covers Arctic and Greenland. Governmental civil agencies, illegal fishing, deep space missions, commercial constellations, management of aircrafts and more security and safety around that. Environmental and climate monitoring, remember. More than half of the parameters we actually want to measure, we can only measure from space. So we'll see more of that. Wildfire is also a thing that you very, very effectively can not prevent, but detect and hopefully manage much better than we have been able to in the past. So forest fires is also very high on the list here. So four key focus areas in a market that we have for GOM Space. First of all, product business will continue that. It's good business for us. We do see a growth and we need to optimize our portfolio, our delivery times, our supply chain, etc. That's important. We see satellite operators or constellation operators, if you like, we need to prepare more for volume. We have to get ready for that. We cannot work, work, work, and then close the contract and all of a sudden gear up to deliver 100 or 200 satellites overnight. It doesn't work like that. So we are gradually preparing so that our supply chain and our production facilities can handle this. um national states is definitely growing security unrest we talked about that before it's it's growing up it's higher on the agenda everywhere and this is something that we are tapping into and last all of these national budgets especially in europe but around the world they are going up there's a lot more funding going towards how do we make space more secure what about cyber security in space so we are tapping into that and including also the lunar and deep space missions So there are four key market areas that are distinct, they are different, and there are different target segments. So it's system integrators, it's satellite operators, national states, and call it institutions. So this is a key. Okay, if you look out into geographically, how do I see the market here? First of all, Europe, competition is fierce. There's a lot of space companies, but that's fine because there's also a lot of budgets. So we have a very clear goal to, of course, capture more of those budgets coming out in Europe. U.S. continues to be the single largest market. We don't see any trends that we should have any issues selling in U.S. On the contrary, so we will grow with more presence. We are hiring more people over there and we have Slava now working diligently to bring our business forward. Asia-Pacific is actually the fastest growing market on a kick-out level. Different kind of reports are saying that. Here we clearly have a focus to outperform the markets. We have a good footprint both on the contract side in Singapore, but on the product side very much so also in Singapore, but in South Korea as an example. Japan is a market that is also possible to enter into. So Asia-Pacific is very good for us and we intend to keep focusing there. If you see more evolving markets, Africa is one dimension. Northern Africa, Middle East, certainly something we are focusing on as well. Qatar, as an example, is definitely one to be the leaders in the region. There is a lot of activity and investments coming there. Latin America, also growing, need to look for their own independence and ability to manage what's coming from outside. so this is how we see it so we see lead development in africa outperform in asia grow with presence in the us and capture a piece of the pie in in europe okay so how are we going to do that well going into 2026 we're going to add two more business units matching the market we'll continue with products aiming at system integrators we will have satellite systems we used to call it programs we call it satellite systems they're focused on the system or constellation operators high volume production of satellites. We have national and defense solutions. This is where we go out a bit broader and saying, okay, it's not just a satellite. There is more to it than that. And we are heavily engaged in discussing with defense and governments around the world on this part. The last one is the different institutions and funds and these advanced missions. The lunar mission that I mentioned again is a good example, Juventus. So that's also a focus area. So these are four business units. And then we have our plus one, which is North America, which is simply because it is the biggest market. We want to have more focus and we've elevated that. So five business units for 2026. You will also see that we will report on those. So you'll see a change going from the three business units we've been reporting on to now there will be five. So looking forward to showing you more on that later. Do we have a team to lead it? Yes, we do. It's the executive team going into 2026. You probably recognize me there. We have a Tolt, who's been around for a long time. We have Thomas Visser, who is our chief commercial officer. We have Søren Takkelsen, who has been with Gamsways for a long time also, eight, ten years. Søren is our chief operating officer going into 2026. We have a lot more organization and operations that we need to run. Lars Almine, one of our co-founders, is running the National Defense Solutions. Oliver, who has been running programs before, continue, but with satellite systems. Slava started last year, running North America. A very warm welcome to Jane Rygaard. I hope you're watching, Jane. Starting 1st of April, perhaps 4, before Jane is a fellow at Nokia. And you know, I've been 20 years with Nokia, so has Jane. Jane is a homegirl up here from Aalborg. This is absolutely great. I'm so looking forward to have Jane on board. And we have Edgar in Luxembourg, who is our vice president for advanced missions. And Edgar is very well funded in the European industry and also with institutional organizations that are promoting space. So that's the team. We have, by the way, a new website. We haven't seen it yet. I recommend you go look at it. I think it looks great. You'll see it's reflecting a bit our heritage, where we have a really strong heritage as a trusted partner, national security and defense. We have a much better website also for commercial purposes. How do we sell our products? How does our customers find our products and specifications? This is really important. We've made that work very well. And then also more investor transparency, more share information. You can go in and read our equity stories. We try to get more out for you. Also for maybe more investors that you might know. And we also have a little nicer share price running here. So if you haven't seen it, go take a look. I'm very happy with the team, the way that we've done the website. And we do start to see that it's helping us in the market, both towards, let's say, more international customers, but also system integrators and engineers who says, hey, I want to buy something here. This looks good. So with that, let's summarize it. Like I said in the beginning, a short trip down memory lane here. This is revenue on the bars, EBITDA on the orange line there. So for starting at 2020, you can see we've been around the 200 million mark. 2025 has just reported 441. That's great. We are forecasting up to 600 as a mid-range for 26. And EBITDA going now up where it needs to be nice and positive. EBITDA around 9%, 8% to 10%. This is great. We have delivered a year-on-year growth. We have a strong lead investor in Peter Hagris. Thank you, Peter, for supporting us always. Makes a huge difference for us. And then thanks to you listening in here also. First North, 25 index, top 10 traded share in Nordnet. And in general, we see more interest from the investors in the market. So with that, I think the road ahead is clear. It's very clear to me what we need to do. Foundation for Success, I think, has been established. We need to execute the discipline. There's absolutely no doubt about that discipline is required. Grow with ambition. We have to be ambitious. The market is growing. There is an opportunity here. We have the heritage. We have a fairly good financial situation. We have a pipeline, we have everything. It would be a shame on us if you don't grow with some ambition here also. So we do that. And then we have to, of course, we keep focusing on delivering value for you, for our customers, for our partners, and certainly for our employees who are the backbone of everything we do and everything that you will benefit from as well. So thank you very much. And I hope this is turning a page to a new chapter in the GAMS-based storytelling. Thank you for your trust.

Shall we jump into some questions, Carsten? I think you already touched upon it that there's a little bit questions around how do you handle this expected high growth? What if customers demand at the same time? Do you have talks with your customers? So maybe you can balance that and see if you can balance theirs. So a little bit, yeah, if you can give some color on how you're thinking about this one.

Yeah, we do talk obviously a lot with our customers. There will also be new customers coming in that's going to drive up the demand. But that's why I chose to stand here so you can see we are gradually working on expanding our capacity here at the current address. And of course, we're looking at opportunities which we know might come that are bigger and how do we deal with that. uh it's it's a competitive factor as well we can't just go to our customers and say this is great so if you can give us four years to deliver we would be very happy it doesn't really work like that so we are all the time looking at diligently saying what do we think is going to be in the next quarter in the next four quarters in the next eight quarters and then we are gearing our supply chain and capacity according to that I think one example that you have seen is that we have outsourced some of our electronic production. So the products are bits and pieces to a local manufacturer here. This is helping us with peaks. So if we have a big peak, we now have a partner that can also produce for us. So that's a good example of how we do this.

Perfect. And then I think a follow-up question is that there are some questions. You talk about investments in 2020. r d and actually maybe uh production capacity uh that you're going to increase i guess that's the two big parts uh that that that you are investing in i think the you know i know the commercial side is probably more hitting your p l but but here but here r d and and you know increasing uh production capabilities where are your investments the biggest right now

No, I would say the R&D investments usually take up a large piece, but it will be distributed evenly. And we also play it by ear in terms of what is now coming in the market. Do we need to accelerate our capacity? Then we'll put more money there. If we say now it's a little bit further out, we will continue with our development projects and keep them on plan. so i think we are agnostic to how it's uh evolving but we have um if you notice we actually we have gone up we have almost doubled compared to 2025 for the intent to uh to spend on on improving the company in 2026 so it's certainly growing up and yes there is more r d than what we've had before

And then regarding that question, I don't think you have guided on it, so I'm pretty sure I won't get an answer, but I will ask you, you expect the cash flow from operations kind of so we can split it. How do we expect cash flow from operations? And then we can also deduce then probably the investing part. I don't know whether you want to be so specific.

No, but I can refer actually to our guidance where we said negative free cash flow, but the free cash flow is everything flowing in and out. You can do them as is. Everybody is paying on time, everything planned. A positive EBITDA for the most part also means a positive cash flow operation, which is what we have indicated. So we should expect that if you have a positive EBITDA, we also have a positive cash flow there.

Perfect. And then there's a little bit question, of course, on this customer outstanding. I think you covered it pretty good. There's maybe a more broad question saying, how do you mitigate this risk at other customers? So is this a specific customer or are you hinged to customers really needing to fund themselves? If you understand my question, maybe I think you answered very well how you mitigate this customer. But generally, how do you mitigate this risk that maybe someone needs funding out there that you are delivering to?

We are evaluating, like I said, this is a great customer. We have such a good relationship. We have a fantastic business case. So, you know, we're quite comfortable with all of that. But we are, of course, evaluating who we want to work with. It is a new space industry. It's a very good question because there is a lot of startups. There are a lot of people right now who has a business case. They are in the process of raising capital. If you look out in the market, and I know many of you are, You see somebody did series A, somebody did series B, they took 10 million, took 100 million in. This is how it's going right now. So, of course, there's always an element of risk. But we look at it, what we do through contracts is that we secure that we always pass for free cash flow positive or cash flow positive on the contracts. We've learned that over the years, so we understand how to manage that. And then, of course, occasionally, if a customer runs into trouble, we're looking at how to handle it and in this given case, we find that we found a solution, a good solution with the customer, and we are very happy with that.

Perfect. And then turning back to this national defense, NATO, Greenland, you show it up there. Anymore, you can elaborate on probably many talks with the Danish government, I guess it's high up on the agenda. And there's a little bit of a question, how much are you actually setting in Salesforce? Salesforce is being directed to kind of doing this and Maybe also a little bit in the NATO part, I guess, why Denmark? NATO seems to be more and more involved, and we have big budgets also on the NATO side. Is it more like you're seeing that maybe we are trying to create a big surveillance network over Europe? So a little bit about your conversations, your thinking on NATO versus Denmark standing here alone with this Greenland. I don't know how much you can elaborate on it, Karsten.

No, we can talk a bit more in broader terms. If you go back to my statement about defence, space is definitely a frontier of defence. It's very clear to everybody. Now, nations are waking up and learning, including Denmark, realising maybe there's something that we should do here. So, of course, there's a process which is a mix of a political process, it's a mix of defence strategies towards how do we use space. And how do we take it into account and how can it help us with our national security? So that is ongoing. If you look at the bigger organizations, for example, the European Space Agency are right now driving a program called Irish Square, which is a communication platform in principle, an alternative to Starlink. this is a european driven initiative that's going on there's going to be more on earth observations so looking at intelligence through imaging so all of that is ongoing and i think what we'll see and what i feel we'll see is there will be some nations are going to buy for themselves and say this is what we do There will be, my guess is for Scandinavia, that Scandinavians are coming together and will agree on something. But we probably say from Denmark, we're contributing from that. From Sweden, we'll contribute with this. And then we'll have more muscle to build it. So it will be a mix of things. But take Germany, for example. They definitely decided not to wait for a long discussion with others. They say, here's 35 billion, dear defense and space industry, let's get going. So it will vary. In terms of nature, let's see how nature is evolving.

But I think, as you also alluded to, I guess there will be other constellations, like you said, here in the Nordic. They have Svalbard and all that issue to be surveilled. We have Greenland. I guess that's also what you might be seeing moving around now.

Yes, for sure. And I think the questions on what are we doing in Denmark, you can go to Christiansborg and ask questions. So you should ask them the question, not me. I'm all in. I know what we need to do. So I think it's more ask your questions for your politicians. And hey, there's an election coming up soon. So maybe you should ask them how they feel about this and then put your vote in that direction.

And then there's actually a very good question regarding you being a Danish manufacturer. Germany, 35 billion is probably going to be spent more in Germany. If it gets more abroad, you might on a bigger scale. How do you actually fit in there as a Danish company? That's the first part. And then I think it will follow. Should you be a constellation of some bigger military companies that are more globally? But let's start with the first part. Do you fear being a Danish company and being let out?

No, not really. I think we are an international company because we never really had a whole market. We are actually really good in export and closing business around the world. And some of our competitors are also good at that. But we are actually better than the average European company supplier of satellites I would claim to export. So that's fine. Do you need to have some local presence in Germany and other countries to get national budgets? Probably some. But what's interesting about the German budget is that the current estimate is that the current German industry can really only deliver between 30 and 40 percent of that budget, which means that Germany has to buy outside or they have to buy via German companies who have to buy outside. So now, of course, we are working, trust me, night and day. I went to the Munich Security Conference, by the way, last week. I'm sure you're all following that. So we are, of course, working on how do we position ourselves here. And this is not just a question of technology. It's also a question of political interest. It's a question of who do you partner with. There are many things that are coming into play here, and we are working on that, not just in Europe, but globally.

Can I also read a little bit in your guidance where you say you want the higher margin, which I think maybe is the products that you have good expectations for your product business due to that reason? Or am I reading too much into that sentence?

Maybe reading too much into it. But what I want to emphasize is if you look at the industry, like I said, many of our competitors are not making money. Many of our peers are not making money today on EBITDA. Those who are, who have some more control of their business, are in that range from 8% to 12% tish. So we're quite okay there. But we do see, of course, a product business is a good business because it's quick turnaround. And yes, you have a different kind of margin when you get that compared to long, complex contracts. But in average, we want to be around the level that we are now.

Yeah, but I'm also more talking about that if it goes, that it gets more national, the budgets, that's your way of getting part of that order by delivering products.

Is that... Yeah, as well. We have customers, we have an Italian customer who won a large contract with the European Space Agency to launch dozens of satellites and then buy a couple of components for us. Great. It works.

So ending the questions, and I think you get them a lot, do you need to be part of a bigger constellation, you know, like which big military, Saab and such one, you know, who maybe are looking into these areas to really scale up and so on? Or can you do it on your own? And which could be interesting? I don't think you want to comment on who could be interesting there, but you're thinking, can you stay alone or would it be better maybe to be a part of a large military complex with a lot of knowledge to sell into military in the future.

I think let's turn the question a bit around what is happening in the market right now, which you do see joint ventures if you're following it. So there are companies going together. This may be what you're implying with being part of something larger. So we are, of course, looking for which partners can be fine, which partners can be fine in Germany, which partners can be fine in other parts of the world. North America, we talked about that before. It's unlikely that we will hold a contract directly with the Department of War, they call it now, instead of Department of Defense. But we will hold that via local prime contractors. And then we'll have a piece of supply there. So that's probably, that's how it's gonna go. I did say grow with ambition, so grow with ambition also means I certainly don't have the intentions to sit back and just see what's happening and see who comes along. We will be actively pursuing to be part of either the right collaborations or making sure that whatever happens, we are certainly growing.

Perfect. There's a little bit more now down to that question. And I don't know whether you want to give that specific, but that's how much of the 26 guidance is covered by the backlog and how much do you need to go out and pick up? I don't know whether you want to give us something.

no but you you the the backlog is is there that's uh about four 400 odd million and then we are projecting uh say up to 600 million so obviously we need to close more but i say the product product business is transactional so that will come as we go along uh and then of course every year we do need to close uh some larger contracts as well which which we are working on But I think the message there, I think we shared very well the different backlogs, which remember we don't have to do, but we are sharing it so you can follow that.

Perfect. And then a little bit about the bottlenecks. Where are you seeing the biggest bottleneck? Is that in your production capacity? Is that maybe out by customers sending it out into space? But do you see any bottlenecks in the supply chain? I think everybody's talking about it, especially in the defense industry that, you know what, there's a large, large demand, but can it actually be met? So more specifically down to you and maybe to the supply chain in general in the business?

Overall, when an industry like ours is growing, and I'm talking about the whole space industry, of course, people start looking for more and more of the same. So it's a whole industry that needs to grow, which means our suppliers are also having success. We do buy components from suppliers that are also delivering to others. So of course, there's a general pressure in the market. i don't see any specific bottlenecks i want to highlight here but saying as the industry growing as we are growing of course supply chain becomes a more critical part and we do see that we are scum space and industry is moving from let's test this out let's do a satellite here and there to an industrialization situation so we are looking at industrializing what we are doing we're starting to think differently about that it's not It's not just technology and some engineering and somebody can solder it over here. We're really looking at how do we manage our supply chain? How do we put this together in a smart way? How do we scale up quickly? And that's about a lot more than just having technology. This is a trend in the industry and the GAM space is going through that as well.

And I guess seeing on your guidance, you're pretty comfortable that there might be bottlenecks, but you are pretty well sourced or you might say able to deliver on it.

Michael, it's a difficult world we are living in. So we have a really good forecast. And hey, who predicted a war in Ukraine? Who predicted COVID? I think things can happen. But listen, I think we have a fairly solid balance sheet. I think we have a good opening backlog. We have a good name and traction in the market right now. So I think we've given you a fair view into what I believe that we can do in 2026.

I'm also more maybe you're talking about you're confident in your supply chain and in your own production capacity to deliver that. The ship can also get across in the Suez Canal. I know everything. But in general, you're confident that you have secured your supply chain.

We are constantly working on that and making it better and better, anticipating that we need to grow. That's what we are guiding. So therefore, our supply chain needs to grow as well. Yes.

Perfect. And then there's some questions about the UA set. There's been some news. I don't know whether you want to comment on single projects and so on, but maybe a little bit in general, maybe a little bit on the security issue here around projects now you're going into defense.

Yes, so in general, I did see it came out last night. We're working all over the world right now and of course we're working in Ukraine as well. Happy to see that as such our name is coming out there. I have nothing more specific to comment on that, but it's a good example of we're working in many places and things are gradually moving forward. What's interesting here is going back to this government owning assets rather than having a service. It is the interest from different governments also for the Ukrainian government to say, hey, we need to be able to do some of the stuff ourselves. In principle, Zelensky is telling Europe, you should probably get more involved. I'm not going to get political on that. how could Zelensky take services from a European organization if other countries, if you can't rely on that, we are there all the time. And this is what many, many countries are asking themselves, saying, who do we trust? And how do we make sure that we are not suddenly left out and we have no control? So this is what we are working on all the time. And yeah.

Perfect. And then let's go a little bit to Asia. You mentioned that as a big playing field. And there's actually a question. You attend a lot of fairs, I guess, also in that region. What are you picking up there in sentiment? And then, of course, let's touch upon Indonesia and Singapore and see if anything has changed. And in your normal comment, I don't expect that, Carsten. You've been pretty clear on those countries. But a little bit about what are you meeting out there at fairs and interest in that region?

Lots of interest everywhere we go. I went to Singapore a couple of weeks ago for a space symposium there. I was invited to speak on a panel. It's always great to be with friends in Singapore. Singapore just created a space agency. What does that mean? It means to actually politically and strategically have now an organisation who is forming a strategy and actively investing on behalf of the Singaporean government to develop their space strategy. That would be great if we also move forward in Denmark and other places in Europe for that. So we do see that trend. We see a lot of interest in Asia for our products. Remember I told the story before, we do have a really good brand out in Indonesia. South Korea is a great example where I think we have 13 or 14 customers. That's a lot. Why do we have that? It's because our two founders, Lars and Morten, they were teaching the students back in the day and now these are the decision makers. So there's a lot of direction there. It's very clear when I go to Singapore, listen to what is being talked about. Singapore is trying to be the hub for Asia, for space. The Asian countries, Southeast Asia in particular, asking themselves, what do we do with space? Where do we need to be? What do we need to be able to do? This is a big discussion and they're looking while we are looking from Europe to US and saying, shit, we're behind. Excuse my French. They're looking from Asia and saying, shit, we're behind. What do we do? excuse my french again so it's that is definitely the talk out there and a lot of focus on which kind of capabilities do we have who can help us and and gump space comes up in many conversations and we also now providing via gump space academy we're providing training services as well So that's what we see there. Indonesia bustling with a lot of discussions on how they do more around space. The Philippines, Taiwan, Thailand, everybody's talking about space right now. And this is what we're hearing. And I'm heading to Washington at the end of March to one of the biggest satellite shows over there. And that's going to be super interesting as well.

Perfect. And Indonesia, I guess. No more comments.

No, no. We keep working. And like I said, there's a lot happening all the time. There's definitely the interest and will to invest in space. And we are right there every week. So, yeah, I'll tell you more when I know.

I do. You know what, Karsten? I think we got a pretty broad around all the questions. We covered not specific questions, but I think in general, we got them covered most of the questions. So thank you for taking us through your results. And of course, openness to answer a lot of questions. I think we got a good way around all the different part of your business. And thank you for the audience for listening in.

My pleasure. Okay. Thank you. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.