Holmen AB (publ)

Welcome, everybody, and welcome to the Interim Report presentation by myself, Henrik, and Anders Janhall. We do as we usually do. We go through the presentation, and then we're happy to take your questions after that. So let's start with the first slide, which is a very nice one for us this time. Another record quarter, which means that in an environment characterized by lack of raw material and energy, we've been able to perform, in our history, a fantastic result. Thanks to, first of all, really good control over the raw material when it comes to wood supply, favorable energy situation, and also we've been able to raise prices in all our business areas. Earning a lot of money, Anders, also means that our net debt, despite the fact that we gave an extra dividend, we also invested in half a wind farm and we bought some forest. The net debt after that is actually down a little bit, thanks to good cash flow during the first and second half of the year. A few words about the situation in the forest market we have had a quite long period now when saw mills have been running full that we have seen that there is quite the competition for saw logs in the market but lately and during the second quarter we've also seen that competition for pulpwood has picked up which is uh Not so strange after all. We also have the Russian situation where we know that Russian wood, pulp wood, is no longer coming into the rest of Europe. And pulp mills have been running quite full. And that also means that prices are up now, not only saw logs, but also pulp wood, which has had some effect on the result, I guess.

Yes, we see that in the second quarter we finally got the effect of increasing prices in the wood market. So it's quite a nice and good revenue that has been added to the Q2 result, coming in at close to 350 million SEK. As expected.

Then moving on to paperboard. This is a market which have been developing quite favorable. We have seen last few years slightly higher demand or increased demand, a bit more than we're used to. And lately also, maybe mainly thanks to or thanks to this, depending on high cost for some producers, prices have also been able to be pushed up a bit. Where we are right now, our order books are good. On the other hand, when we look at the deliveries from European suppliers in the beginning of this year, we see that it is a little bit slower than it used to be, which is not strange in this market situation. If we look at the result after a quarter which have been also quite good when it comes to producing,

Yes, we see that we increased prices during the second quarter and all the price increases have come through in quite a quick manner, which have improved the result in Q2. But we also see that costs for chemicals and logistics are rising, rising quite a lot this year and will continue to rise a bit. But we have been able to

moderate the cost inflation by especially the very strong energy situation we have in our board division being self-sufficient cannot be stressed enough to be honest in this situation where both meals are self-sufficient yeah moving on to paper this is a market where It's really driven by cost. Prices are up. They were up in the beginning of the year and they have continued to come up during the second quarter as well. Increasing prices a lot means, of course, that it has sooner or later some effect on demand. If we look at the slide, we know that Over time, this is a structural decline, and when prices are up as much as they are in this year, one could expect that we will see a bit more dramatic fall than what we see when we look at moving 12. it means that operating rates among the producers aren't fantastic there may be mid 70s today still in the market the cost determines what prices must be charged to customers in in our case We have been doing rather well. We have produced and have a good order stock and order level during the quarter. We also have good control of the raw material, the wood, thanks to our own forest and well-done work in the forest organization. But we also have a fairly favorable situation when it comes to energy in cost in general. Maybe you can elaborate a little bit on that also when we look at the result, which is fantastic, by the way.

Yeah, there's no other word to it. It's a fantastic result in the second quarter. It's not only driven by market pricing going up. Half of the improvement is actually to how we have been able to manage our mills. It's fascinating to see how quickly all our employees in the paper division has adapted to the new energy situation where prices are volatile intraday. It's extreme volatility. But everybody all the way out to mill operator and production planning has adapted to a new way of running our machines and adjust power outtake during these days without sacrificing production efficiency or customer satisfaction. So it's a fantastic job done by our employees to contain energy costs. And we also have been favored by quite good hedging execution of hedging strategy. So it's a great result, sincerely.

And I don't think we can expect that we will be running totally full in the future. We have to follow the market and continue working this way. And then wood products, or should we call it roller coaster products? A fantastic quarter, fantastic first half year. But we know that at the end of the second quarter, we see that prices are coming down in an environment, again, energy crisis, inflation, the whole construction side of the business, waiting to see what is going to happen. And that's also the feeling we have right now. I just stand here that customers have enough in stock and they are waiting to see what is going to happen. If we just give an indication where we are today, as we say that prices are on their way down. Well, today we are roughly 20-25% lower, but it's quite a big spread between different products and markets compared to average for Q2. and it's chaotic market not easy to say exactly where it's going but as we are right now prices are still falling a bit exactly where they will they will turn up again very hard to say but i think we have to keep an eye on something else as well it's not only the situation we have the next couple of weeks or months it's also a long-term question as we believe we have first of all it's an interesting business to be in building in wood is still fantastic compared to some other materials and has the future ahead of itself and also when it comes to cost position we in sweden especially our company we have a very strong position and it's all about wood availability long term that will determine the winners and the ones struggling a bit more If we just look at the chart here, we see that we know the situation in Russia, which is a huge exporter of wood products. We also know that during the war and what will come after war, we don't know for sure. But it's not easy to or we cannot expect Russia to increase or even be at the level we have seen historically. We saw in the market in the beginning when the war started that actually there came quite a lot of wood products out into the markets, also into Europe. But since July roughly, there is no more wood products or wood coming from Russia into Europe. Russia has its own problem. If we move to Canada, Canada has also its own problem, especially in British Columbia. A lot of the forest is gone or too far away from the sawmills because of the bark beetle infestation we've had for many years. On the other hand, we have the east side of Canada where production is picking up, but cost level is not as competitive as ours, as we see it. We also had logistical problems in Canada, but long term, I think it's more a question of where are the soil mills, where is the raw material? And then we have continental Europe. A lot of bark beetle infestation also in continental Europe. For some time, we have seen that they had to take out a lot of wood, of course, to not only produce wood products, but also to export simply soil logs. Over time, that should mean that they most probably have to reduce a bit. And where the new level will be, we will see. It's actually only the Nordic countries, not least Sweden, and companies like ours where we have really good control of the raw material and also a good cost position. Not only because... We have a wood market that works in that way, but also that we have, in most cases, sawmills, pulp mills, and other operations together in very efficient combinates. To build a sawmill in Russia without having a pulp mill next door, it's not the same. It's not the same as you don't have anyone buying the wood chips and the sawdust in the same way as we can do here. So I think we have to stay cool and I think we have very interesting opportunities going forward. But let's concentrate on the second quarter. This was a different quarter.

The second quarter was our best ever for the wood products. We benefited from the price increases in Europe. We had a very strong Q1 where we captured a lot of profits by exporting large volumes to the US. We couldn't repeat that. It was a known fact before the quarter. We saw that log costs rose a bit in Q2 and are still on the rise. But it's a very strong quarter, the second quarter.

Absolutely. And then a few words about renewable energy in a world where we have an energy crisis and extreme electricity and energy prices. What have we done? Well, we have actually increased our production of renewable energy through the startup of Blåbärsliden Wind Farm. We also bought the shares of half of Varsvik, adding up to now 1.7 terawatt hours of green electricity production in Holmen. And we have an extreme situation not only in Sweden, but also if we look at Europe and different parts in Sweden. And huge price increases. In our case, it's a bit... It's not so good for Sweden, and it feels like we could do a lot more when it comes to using at least our hydropower, but also wind power. Most of it, as you know, is up north. But there is a lack of transmission capacity, which means that that electricity is, to some extent, much too much of it is locked in in northern parts of Sweden. This is something that has to change. Otherwise, it will be extremely difficult to, first of all, have electricity intensive industry in the south and to also have a situation that makes sense up north, building new capacity. But this is more a question for the politicians, but it's urgent. can do a bit on this. We can run the hydropower as well as we can in order to capture good prices.

Yeah and as usual we do run our hydropower towards the hours where it makes the most use for society and gives us most revenues. It adds nicely to our profit should our hydropower stations There had been free flow down to the southern part of Sweden. We have earned a lot more from our hardware power. So it's, given the circumstances, a good result, but it can be better.

It could have been a lot better. It's also nice to note that our business idea to grow houses works very good also in extreme times of energy crisis, inflation, etc. And that's about it. So we're happy to take your questions. Thank you.

The first question is from Lars Kilberg from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.

Thank you for taking my question. Just a couple of ones, starting with paper board, which seems to be the area where you're not that massively benefiting from your cost base. Is that relating more to long-term contracts or are you not seeing the same sort of massive cost pressures i.e. for your competitors in continental Europe, and what really explains that sort of not quite explosive numbers we've seen in the other parts of the business. You talked about paper, and it's interesting to me the first company really talks about parasiticity, which of course makes a ton of sense. But what confused me a bit, you talked about a 70% operating rate that seems very low. Does that suggest that demand has really started to come off in recent months because we haven't really seen that big dive in available statistics as of yet. And then the final point in the paper, I guess, you called out very clearly strong operational performance which is clear from the numbers you provided can you explain a bit what you've actually done what is behind that extreme positive operational performance if i start with the paper board yeah

Our prices are to some extent or half of them are in fixed long-term contracts and that mutes the price development a bit. But it's also we are competing to a very large extent with Nordic-based producers with not as bad energy situation as continental Europe where most of our competitors in paper operates.

Yes, when it comes to paper, I think, first of all, our own operating rates are better. But we do see that the decline in the market is, well, it's declining a bit faster, at least the last couple of months, which is not strange given the price increases we see in the market. But it's all theory. and i don't think that all paper mills that we have on the list have been running full for quite some quite some time actually so in reality less capacity is there in the market but this means finally that the ones with the best cost position will survive and some of them simply need to die And that's a situation we've had for a long time. Our situation is that we have a very favorable cost situation. But not only that, we also have a favorable wood sourcing situation. So we are doing it a bit different. And as Anders explained before, it's also a way to... The way we do it is really to start and stop if needed, depending on the energy situation in Sweden, which is not easy.

We have invested in the past in ability to... to store pulp and go down in power outtake during the most expensive hours. Those are small examples, but there are also quite a lot of price differences within the Nordics between hours, between days, and we've been good at exploiting those price differences throughout our whole organization.

And the way the price is set in the market now is mainly based on the cost for energy in continental Europe in combination with the cost for recycled fibers. And we have, as you know, a slightly different situation there.

Indeed. Just one very quick follow-up on paperboard. One of the major US producers started to talk about the energy arbitrage, although being mainly on recycled paperboard, but they're also trying to qualify product for the European market given the extreme high costs in Europe. Are you seeing any tentative signs of any exports of consumer boards from the United States into Europe at all?

No, not to my knowledge. Not in our segment, I would say. If you go down into lower segments, then maybe, but then I don't know. We haven't seen it. Very clear. Thank you.

The next question is from Linus Larsson from SED in Skilda. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. I'd like to continue on paper. And if you could just give us some color on price expectations for the third quarter? What kind of opportunities do you have? What's your contract structures as of now? Are you still working with different kinds of surcharges? Is your whole portfolio potentially up for renegotiation? If you could just give some color on your pricing opportunities and flexibility.

I think Linus, first of all, if you look back a few years or some years, we historically did yearly contracts or half year contracts, but that it's all changing. It's simply impossible to give long-term contracts in a situation where nobody knows what the cost will be the next quarter or even the next month. So when it comes to the contracts, it's changing much quicker than we used to do. We are down maybe next year to monthly contracts, in some cases already today. And then, as you say, people use surcharges or not. I think it will simply be you have to set the price where you cover your cost. And at the moment, it's again, it's recycled fibers and energy on the continent that determines where the cost base is or what the cost is that you need to be able to produce.

Hmm. And just to continue on pricing, you're alluding to your expectation of accelerating demand decline on back of these deep price increases. Could you get some picture of how the European customer base is doing? I mean, your own customers, but also generally publishers and so forth.

I think it's a bit too early, but of course they are concerned about the cost. And it's also a big difference between a book publisher and a magazine and a retailer giving out leaflets. It's totally different way of calculating. If you take a book, for example, it's not much compared to what you pay for a book. But if it's all cost to make people come into a shop, well, then it's different. And one can only expect that everyone is thinking carefully, where do I spend my money? And do I get payback for my money? And normally when you have things like the price increases we see, well, then it has at least some effect on demand. When I say that demand decline is accelerating, it's what we see the last couple of months. It feels a bit softer than what the moving 12 says. So it gives slightly different picture.

And then just finally from my side, on paper you mentioned hedge gains in the second quarter. Going into the third quarter, what's your situation on energy hedging and maybe also the currency hedging in maybe specifically paper?

The outcome was very favorable in the second quarter. We have a good hedging level in the third quarter, but there could be some headwind from increasing costs going into the third quarter. But it's a bit too early to tell.

Could you quantify the hedge gains in paper in the second quarter?

No, it's not correct to call them hedge gains, but it's a combination of how we have been able to run the mills together with the hedges that we have in place.

And you're expecting the same kind of favorable hedging in the third as in the second quarter, or is there a sequential difference in any way?

I can't quantify it, but it could be some headwind. Not significant, but some headwind.

But we continue to operate in the same way.

Great, thank you very much.

The next question is from Oskar Lindström from Danske. Please go ahead.

Yes, thank you. A couple of questions from me. first on paper following up from the previous two people here on the call. You say you're managing your energy costs.

You mean how is it possible?

Yeah, how is it possible? You mentioned something about storing sort of pulp. Is this something which is possible when production is lower and you therefore can sort of choose to produce the pulp when energy electricity spot prices are low? What are the sort of mechanics behind this managing?

You can do two things, Oskar. You can do two things. We have an ability, we have overcapacity on pulp, which means that we can produce when prices are lower. within limits. And then you can take downtime on the paper machine as well. And we have been, of course, we're using both tools to maneuver in combination with the hedges that we have in combination with the production planning in the way we run our machines.

And the extreme price fluctuations we see also in Sweden.

And this was something which, because it's quite a significant jump, Q2 versus Q1. Was this something that sort of happened during, that was implemented during this quarter?

But don't forget, we have increased paper prices quite a lot as well.

But it takes some time to learn how to do this. And you maybe have to have some luck as well. That's why, can we repeat it completely in Q3? Yes. I don't take it for granted. It was extremely well executed in the second quarter.

All right. Following up on paper also, one cost inflation factor for continental European producers are gas prices, obviously. But the other one is recovered paper prices.

Yes.

What is the reason for the sort of significant shift up in recovered paper prices in Europe? And do you see that as being a long-term shift?

When you produce printing paper or graphic paper down in continental Europe based on recycled fibers, remember that you can only use old newspapers and magazines. You could use some wood-free as well. But nothing that's brown. So you have to either find clean sources or sort out the brown, which will be test liner and fluting. And if you look at the price development and also demand development, the less we consume in Europe, the less availability of these fibers there are. The more you have to pay for sorting out the brown and also to find it when it comes to logistics, etc. I think that's the reason why you see that the price for OMPOMG has come from, let's say, 200 euros to 300 euros today. And then you have the yield effect. It's not only fibers in the mix. You also have to take it by a factor of roughly 1.3 to come to the real cost for fiber. And then as you correctly say, you have to add on gas and logistic and some other things.

And don't forget, this is a consequence of a lot of virgin fiber production capacity that was closed during the pandemic. This was sort of... quite clear that this should happen the magnitude is is larger than we expected but that it should happen when it closed on virgin fiber you don't refill this the system to to the printing paper system with virgin fiber when you have closed down so much so much virgin fiber capacity so it's quite natural what what's happening right now it sounds like you're saying this is a structural shift which maybe might even get get stronger

A third question for me is on wood products and wood supply in continental Europe. You mentioned this over-harvesting which has been going on in continental Europe due to trying to keep ahead of the bark beetles there. Are we now seeing harvesting levels come down or are they going to remain above average levels or remain at high levels? also this year and next year? When will we see the shadow effect from the over-harvesting?

We don't know exactly, Oskar, but I think we can at least predict. When you look at the weather we have had this summer, it's unfortunately a huge risk that the bark beetle infestation has not come to an end yet. Even though a lot of old trees have been taken out, there is still plenty more that could be infested. So like in Sweden, we have to wait and see, but sooner or later that will happen, that you have to take down the harvesting levels in order to come back to a sustainable balance in the forests.

All right. Thank you. My final question is on wind power. I mean, you scaled back or down one of your projects in southern Sweden here, this before the summer. Do you see sort of opportunities to increase the speed of your build-out of wind power?

We see huge opportunities, but if we are going to be able to really do it, we are dependent on permits. Oskar, that takes too long.

So, I mean, are you seeing like buying permits you know, other people's projects or, I mean, do you see opportunities to mitigate the sort of permitting issue and increase the speed of the build-out?

We stick to our strategy to develop wind farms where the majority is on our land and that we develop ourselves. We're filling up the pipeline, but it takes time to do it.

All right. Thank you. Those were all my questions.

Thank you, Oskar.

The next question is from Christian Kopfer from Anders Banken. Please go ahead.

Thanks. Good morning, everyone. Two questions from my side. Firstly, you talked about the geography paper a lot this morning, but can I have a follow-up on that? Maybe I got it wrong, but my interpretation was quite clearly that didn't see so much rate prices in q2 versus q1 and then and then prices came out quite dramatically so was it something that changed uh nobody late or no what happened what happened we um the outcome both on the cost and price side exceeded our expectations as well so it's um Okay, but was that surprise even by the end of the quarter, or did you know it all along from the beginning?

No. I think when it comes to price, as we said before, Christian, it's changing from month to month, and it's mainly cost-driven.

Okay. I thought you primarily had, you know, the short-term contracts you had was like one quarter, right? No, no, you're right.

But things are changing. It's also these surcharges which have had effect. Quarter over quarter you have a surcharge effect. We didn't have surcharges for the full first quarter and the levels have been changing a bit. So that explains to a large extent the strong pricing momentum.

Then on renewable energy, I hear what you say, Henrik, on the energy situation in the north, but consumption will dramatically increase and transmission takes a lot of time to build. I think really the southern parts, three and four, should not be expecting dramatic increase in electricity from the north. I think you should definitely increase your focus on building electricity or power supply in the southern parts as well.

I agree, but I think we should do both.

Yeah, but if you look at consumption, I think it will more or less double in the north.

Maybe there will be an undersupply in the next... Could be, but don't forget that the Swedish energy system, electricity system, needs... hydropower to stabilize the system in the south as we will add on a lot of probably wind power maybe some solar power etc to have it locked in in in the northern parts of sweden that's it's not logic not good for sweden not good for us um

Sorry if you mentioned it, but in that part, you have worked a lot with the plans and you have some news there. I mean, how is it going with the negotiations?

I think we have to... First of all, you know, there is... The government has said that they will look into how communities, people living next door, etc., will be compensated in the future. And we also have an election in a few weeks. So before we have the election, and maybe we have to wait what the outcome of those rules for the future, how to handle it. We hope that that will change the game a bit.

Yeah, hope so as well. Thanks, guys.

The next question is from Robinson Davirta from Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. In terms of the paper board business of yours, how would you deem your competitive situation when it comes to energy in that division? I guess in paper it's clear the Swedish and the Nordic producers are competitive. gaining from lower energy costs compared to continental European producers of paper. But how is it in paper board? Is it the same situation or is it so that the key competitors are also self-sufficient when it comes to energy?

Paperboard in the segments of the market where we operate, the upper parts, most of our competitors are located in the Nordics. They have a... They are not as exposed to the continental producers. We have a very strong energy situation. There are some other mills that have the same, but in the Nordics also there are mills that are dependent on buying electricity in the Nordic market. But when it comes to the lower segments of the market, almost all producers are on the continent and they... They have as difficult as they have on the paper side on sourcing energy. And their cost situation has worsened quite a bit. And it's causing this price increase coming from below, from the lower grades.

And even in the UK at the Workiton mill, we also are self-sufficient in energy, a very strong position.

But are these lower or smaller producers in Europe your competitors when you price them? What I'm after is whether this paper board business you have is, at the moment, the pricing is driven by supply and demand, or whether it's driven by energy pricing in Europe.

I would say where we operate, it's supply-demand driven. but the lower grades are struggling and pushing up their prices, of course, giving support to the price increases for the higher grades as well. So it's a combination.

If you look at white line chip, it's definitely cost-driven.

Yeah, yeah. I understand. Thanks. And the second question I have is related to wood products. How much of your production do you export out of wood? of sweden what are those markets uh i related to that uh i understand uh the russian sun timber is no longer sort of imported to europe do you meet russian sun timber in your export markets

Roughly 40% of our sales is in Scandinavia. It has increased after we acquired Martinsson's. Then our major export markets are the UK, North Africa, Middle East, and the US. And in North Africa and Middle East, the selected markets of those are big on Russian wood.

At least historically.

Yeah.

What is the demand situation in, say, Middle East and other parts of Africa at the moment?

That's a classical trading market. They are traders, and they are definitely looking at the situation right now to see where the price is.

end up robin remember also when it comes to russia we could discuss russia for for hours but could also be lack of spare parts when it comes to the forest industry that will determine how much you can actually produce in the sawmills etc it's a lot of unsecurity which is difficult to assess exactly how it will how it will play out i i agree

And final one on this, and just I understand it's a complicated situation, but I guess sort of it's clear now producers start to have quite big inventories and the prices are declining. But would you guys sort of as the best guess that this – 20-30% price decline set to happen now in Q3. Is that sort of where it all ends? It looks quite grim related to, to say the least, energy when it comes to consumption of sawn timber. Pitch dark, I would say, going into next year. Why would not prices decline from these exceptionally high levels in Q3 that you still have if the Russians still can can export to the key export market there is in the world. That is sort of something I struggle to understand. Why wouldn't we go down to quite low levels? Or is it something that I miss?

It's always difficult to predict where a market, especially the world's broadest market, are when it's in decline. Everybody's in wait and see what will happen. Russian volumes from our main markets, Russian volumes were there to a very large extent up until June. After the sanctions hit early July, they're gone. We don't really see them there. And it was quite significant volumes. That helped to increase stock levels in Europe in the second quarter, and those stocks have to be consumed before this market stabilizes. How long that will take? Difficult to say.

It's not easy.

But as Henrik alluded to, a lot of the big exporting nations struggled with wood supply, and Russia

Out right now.

I understand. Thank you very much. Thank you.

The next question is from Martin Melby from ABG. Please go ahead.

Good morning. Just to get a bit more clarity on Q3 here. How much of the list prices Did you actually catch in Q2 on paper and paperboard? And how much is set to be renegotiated on a new level in Q3?

I can start with paperboard. We will have some positive price impact. We captured all the price increases during Q2 quickly. but the prices were lifted during Q2. So there is some positive pricing going into third quarter. Cost will be increasing as well in the third quarter, but we'll see positive pricing. And then on paper, Henrik.

Again, I don't think it will be totally determined by us. It will be the cost situation for continental producers. We will see where it's going.

Okay. And then two more questions. How is your electricity price hedged on the renewable energy segment per se? And the next is on volumes for the sawmills in Q3. Is that holding up or is it going down with pricing?

Hedging on renewable energy, we stopped hedging our renewable energy business during later part of last year. From time to time we do some hedges, but the base position is to be unhedged on renewable energy. And deliveries on wood products, maybe you can look at last year what happened to deliveries when prices went down. Everybody is a wait-and-see mood to see where the pricing starts to stabilize.

Yes, that's what I thought. Thank you.

The next question is from Cole Arthur from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Mr. Arthur, your line is open. We cannot hear you.

Thanks for taking my question. Just for follow-up on wood products, is there any guidance you can give on delivery expectations into the third quarter? We've heard some of the Austrian and Central Eastern European sawmills are taking some downtime, and I'm just wondering how deliveries are progressing for you for the third quarter. And then following on that, I mean, the lower production of wood products is driving up pulpwood costs or kind of wood costs to producers in continental and Central Europe. And I'm just wondering, is there a further impact on wood cost to the market, given that, you know, potentially the Nordic producers are pulling back on sawmill production and it's driving up wood cost to various companies. Just your thoughts on that. Thank you.

Let's start with deliveries. You should remember that July is a vacation month in Sweden where the sawmills do take production time naturally. So volumes per definition go down in the third quarter. And as I mentioned, buyers are waiting. When prices are going down, buyers are not ordering more than they have to. So deliveries will be lower than normal in this part of the pricing cycle.

And even if we have a good cost position, sure, we keep an eye on our inventory levels.

And then on wood costs, they are on the rise. You have several factors affecting that. You have Russian that was a big exporter into especially Finland of pulpwood. You have UPM that has started up production, consuming more. We see increasing demand for burning wood for energy purposes. It's cheaper than burning gas. So we see a tighter market generally, and we see pulpwood prices going up, as we have communicated earlier as well.

For any further questions, please press star and one. There are no more questions at this time. Sorry, we have a last-minute registration from Harry Titan and from Nordea. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thanks for the last-minute inclusion. Maybe on the question on the share buybacks and the authorization for 10% and what sort of – thinking on that now after sort of strong result, but uncertain outlook.

We always have an authorization from the AGM. The board has not so far chosen to activate that authorization. It's quite unusual that we do it. Happened once lately.

Yeah, fair enough. And then maybe, well, just on the sort of forest transaction prices, I know that the market usually gets sort of more active towards the end of the year and all that. But I mean, now with the rising interest rates, I mean, are you picking up signals on the actual transaction value development? How that might be sort of, what does it look like for now?

We have not picked up any signals of a slowdown, but it's a market that develops over time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, many thanks.

All right, was that the last question?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Thank you very much for taking your time and interesting questions. Even though there are a bit of a question mark exactly where the market is going, I think we are in a very strong position when it comes to both supply of saw logs, pulpwood, favorable energy situation. So we will be able to handle this in a very good way. I'm quite sure. Thank you very much. See you soon.