Hufvudstaden AB (publ)

Hello and welcome to today's closing presentation from the capital of Sende 2023. My name is Albin Sandberg and I come from Cap Le Cherreux and I am one of the stock analysts who follow the capital. Today we will hear from the CEO Anders Snygren, CFO Åsa Roslund and the CEO of NK Bovikare. We estimate that the presentations will take somewhere between 35 to 40 minutes. There is the possibility to ask questions both here in the room and for those of you who follow digitally, please send in the questions so I can pick them up at the end. With that said, we hope to be ready around 10 to 5. And then I leave the floor to you, Anders. You're welcome.

Thank you very much. I would like to start by greeting all of you who are here digitally today as well. Welcome. I have already greeted the audience here. Welcome. Today we are at the Sirio Law Firm. We are very grateful to be here today. We at Hufvudstaden have spent a lot of time here during the last six years. So it feels very special for us and we are very proud of this final product. I will start by summarizing the year. I want to start by saying that I feel proud of what we have achieved during this challenging year. For the third year in a row, we have increased the turnover from the property management. I would say that this year has been characterized by worries in our environment. We have seen these rising interest rates, increased financing costs and this is something that has affected the property industry as a whole. But it is precisely in these times that the low risk profile of the capital shows its strength. The demand for nice, centrally equipped offices has been stable during the year. But for retail it has been significantly more challenging. Many traders have experienced rising costs and declining turnover. So this has been a year of testing. Sustainability. is something that is central to us. It is an important part of our daily work. As a proof that we work in the right way, we won first place in Europe in sustainability research GRESP in the category office and trade. This feels like an important proof to us. What is also very exciting and what we usually talk about is the first placement in the satisfaction customer measurement for offices. This is very important for us to get long customer relations and to make money. But we are very happy with these marks. The net turnover increased by 10% compared to the previous year. The gross profit also increased by 10%. The rebates decreased by 2%, but this is calculated after the index increase. Here we can see that the office contributes positively, but the store and restaurant contributes negatively. The rental holiday increased to 8.8. This is not something we are satisfied with, but there are some explanations here. We have had some larger shifts, we have also completed some projects. And the projects that have now become vacancies are not fully announced yet. But we will advise on this. If you look at the exclusive project vacancies, the vacancies became 5.7%. If we then look at quarter 4, the net turnover increased by 6% compared to previous years. The gross income of the property management increased by 3%. And the unrealized value change during the quarter was 1.2 billion. This is mainly driven by rising yields. During the last quarter of the year, we have also ended our insurance regulation on the wild man. This is something that feels very nice to be able to put behind us. During the quarter we have also rented two offices, one here in Stockholm to Norvestor and one office down in Gothenburg to Big Green. We have also certified Svärdfisken 2 on Drottninggatan according to Bremen News and there we have got a Very Good score. If we sum up the year, it will be a negative result of 1.9 billion SEK. This negative result is mainly due to the negative unrealized value changes in the real estate. We have made deductions of 4 billion SEK during 2023. The market value was set at 46.7 billion SEK and the long-term substance value was 185 SEK. The board proposes a joint share of 270 SEK per share. Åsa, welcome!

Thank you, Anders. Absolutely. I thought we would look at some key words and how change has changed over time. We start where Anders ended with the division. One of our financial goals is that we will distribute at least 50% of the profits from the ongoing business. This year we have proposed an unchanged division of 270 and that corresponds to 61% of the net profit from the ongoing business. Let's move on to some other key figures and see the development over time and start with the net reward rate. Here we compare ourselves with a number of other colleagues in the industry and it is the pink line that is the average value for the other companies. Our net reward rate is 20.9% and the rest are around 45%. The interest rate has decreased due to the higher interest rates that we have around in society, but we are still at 4.9 and the rest on average is around 3. Our solidity has been stable for many years around 60% and this year we ended up at 59% per the last December 23 and the rest is just over 40%. If we look further at the loan, we had a debt of 9.4 billion SEK at the end of the year. It is divided into a small amount of certificates. Almost a quarter is in the bank loan and 65% in bonds. In addition, we have unused loan agreements of 4.8 billion SEK per year. This is sufficient to cover all our credit defaults on the credit market in the next two years. Then in 2021 we started a transition to lending money to the green market, so we went over to green financing. We do this both with bonds and bank loans, and by the end of December, 49% of our loan was green compared to the entire loan stock. The green financing is of course rooted in our sustainability work and we work from a sustainability plan where we think and act long-term both from an economic, environmental and social perspective. We have three basic pillars in our sustainability work and our plan that I was going to tell you a little more about. One of our goals is to have less emissions and we want to achieve climate-neutral management by 2025. We do this with a number of different measures, investments in energy saving, technology and the like. Among other things, in the reconstruction of this property, we have had a very high focus on sustainability. We have, among other things, drilled for mountain heat, so below us there are 6.5 km of drilling holes that produce both cooling and heat for this property. No other heat or cooling models are needed for this stove, but it is the holes down here that make it work. We also install solar cells on the facilities where possible. Right now, a larger project is underway to add solar cells to the roof on the 5th floor in Gothenburg. Future-safe is something we have been working with since the company started. We have always been very long-term and think long-term in what we own and what we build. We want the renovations we do in properties to live for a long time. A location should be able to handle various rental guests over time without having to make large renovations when you change rental guests. In this way we save resources both for the planet and in our cash register. Another way to secure the future is to think about how we can be safe when we go to climate change that we do not really know what they look like. One of the big risks right here in Stockholm City is that we are quite low and the quarter is hot, the pump and the drain, among other things, and that indicates that there has been a lot of water here before. We prepare ourselves and make sure that we have good drainage from indoor gardens and the like, but also make sure that we have dams that can be used if it were to be affected by landslides and floods in the form of or due to 100 years of rain. Sustainability is otherwise an area where you really have to cooperate in order for us to succeed and have success. We do that a lot and we see an increased interest in sustainability issues from all of our stakeholders, both those of you who are in the premises today, but above all from our tenants. Their interest is broad, from waste issues to reconstruction. Over the past few years we have carried out several projects where we have focused on recycling. Recycling is all from materials that we see here that can be used in the same premises or in other premises. But it is also about furnishings, furniture, chairs, tables that can be reused by repainting, changing clothes and making sure that even such things get a new life. Another important issue that has been on the agenda lately, both in the media and with all of our real estate companies, is how to make sure that we have sustainable supply chains, so that we can guarantee good conditions for everyone who works and security and security. This is something that we really see important in the future, and a great collaboration is required here, both between us and other real estate companies, together with the construction industry, to ensure that it becomes a safe and safe everyday life. We have set up a number of sustainability goals. We did that in 2020. Long-term goals that extended to 2025 and 2030. One of the goals was that we would reduce our energy use per square meter by at least 16% by 2025. We see that we have already achieved that now in 2023 and it will be time to set new goals. Another goal is that all of our properties will be environmentally certified and so far we have achieved 78%. But sustainability is not just about the hard things, it is also about sustainable employees. It is prioritized both for us and our employees, but also with our rental guests. Cycle parking and dressing rooms are something that is in demand by almost all rental guests nowadays, because it has become very common to cycle. We also offer bicycle service for our rental guests, and that is what we see an example of here. You can get help to fix your bike when you have brought it from the source.

Hållbarhet har ju blivit ett modebegrepp får man väl säga och det är ju ett skämt viktigt område men rent krasst finansiellt, upplever du att hjälper det finansiellt, har ni lättare att resa kapital, blir det billigare och är det tillräckligt mycket billigare i så fall?

I would say that nowadays it almost feels like it's obvious that if you want to borrow money, it should be green. That's the question you get as soon as you turn to both the capital market and banks. We experience that we have a larger base of investors on the capital market if you can offer green financing and we have a lot of room to have more green financing since we have so many green properties. The price picture is a little more diffuse. I feel that it is still a few points cheaper to borrow green, but I hope that the difference will be greater. If we borrow more green, it will be even cheaper than to borrow dirty money, if you can say so.

Thank you Åsa. Then we welcome Anders again who will tell us a little about the project in Huvudstaden. But I was going to add that there has been a lot of interest in the commercial and real estate market in recent years. What is your view of the market at the moment?

I would say that the entire industry is affected by the increased financing costs. We at Huvudstaden would have expected that this would happen and it is our low risk profile that we are very careful and we do not want to have too high a reward, but those who have a high reward, they feel this quite strongly today. We have seen that on the market, it is companies that are forced to sell. You also see that there are companies that you try to keep up the values and in the end, when you still have to sell, it becomes quite a big hit. We have also seen a lot of new emissions here to strengthen the cash flow. My understanding is that the yields will continue to go up here and that you need to normalize the price level so that buyers and sellers meet, because you don't really do that today. And that is something that continues here now. Even if you hear that there are many who are out and about to buy, I would say that it is more the institutional capital that moves, rather than maybe the private property companies. Because it is difficult to get up the calculations.

Thank you.

Let's take a look at the real estate market. If we look at transactions in Sweden, we can clearly see that in 2023 there will be a strong decline compared to the more lively years between 2016 and 2022. I think this reflects the market quite well, how it is going out there as well. The assessment is that it will certainly start to do a little more business, but I think it will continue to be on quite low levels. If we look at the yield development outside of Sweden, we see a clear trend here if you look at a year's scale. Here, the yields have increased in all cities in Europe as well. This affects the real estate markets in general for everyone, of course. Here we see the main city's market value over time. We are today on an average yield of 4.1% and our property value is 46.7%. And here we see that the values are still going down, even if it may flatten out a little bit. Today we have a project portfolio of about 2 billion SEK and these projects will be implemented according to earlier planned plans. We will not make any corrections. Here we see the introduction from the foreman. As I mentioned earlier, we have been working with this project for six years. Not built all the time, but we have worked with it and developed this product. Developed a new detailed plan. So this land is very dear to us. And what we see here is these birds that were given shape in the 1880s and that you see on the crown in the crossing on Biblioteksgatan and Joksbergsgatan. And these have then become a work of art for the property that stands down in the entrance. And when you stand as a builder and look at this, I am an entrepreneur in the background, it is fantastic craftsmanship. And we are very happy that we could keep this Roslags sandstone facade. And it is also renovated now, so it is like new actually. Behind this facade, as you can see here, it is a completely flexible building. There is hardly a pillar on the entire plan. This property is built to be able to change over time when the needs change depending on time to another. This is a real cannon property. In the current situation, all offices and all stores are rented. Here we see the staircase. This is a work of art. Staircases are extremely important for tenants. It is the first thing that a visitor meets when they meet a company. Here we have an ambition that a staircase function should last for 100 years. That is our perspective. Of course, I have seen parts of the office, you will have to go around and look a little more. It will be incredibly nice, it is a high quality product with fine material choice that ages beautifully. In the vicinity of the central station is the Elpipan 7. Last year we had a larger shift there and then we have changed all windows to windows with better heat insulation and better sun protection. But in parallel with that, we also try to improve the quality of the office and then we have made these windows a little bigger so that we have got a different feeling in the premises. As you know, we have been working on a detailed plan for many years. We have now received OK from the municipality and the county council. But we have some details left that we will deal with with SL. Here we can see from inside a room in the pipe where we have got these much larger windows and it gives more light and it becomes more attractive inwardly. In the quarter Hästhuvet, in the intersection of Kungsgatan and Sveavägen, we have also done a more extensive renovation during the year. We had a few move-offs, and above all we had an apartment that moved into the street plan. And then we have taken care of upgrading this property. We have opened up carrying constructions, we have switched to more energy efficient technology and we have completed with another elevator. And then we have carefully renovated these surfaces. Here we see an animated picture, but in principle it looks like this today. The first tenants have moved in and here we have tried to recreate parts of the original architecture in the property. This is something that is very sought after on the market. This is our largest development project, Johanna, with a gross area of 44,000 m2. This whole block is empty at the moment. Here we create a strong meeting place for office, trade and service. In the quarter we create two equal and very generous entrées. As I said earlier, it is important for the customers. To the left we see one of the inner gardens. Here it will be a generous staircase up to the upper floors. And to the right we see from an office area. In this quarter we have many terraces, important for the customers. And here the renovation work is in full swing. Here you can get areas up to 4,500 square meters in one plan. The move is in 2026. Let's jump over to offices. The office market has been under change. What we have seen is increased distance work partly linked to new technology, that it is possible to work at home. What we see, however, is that companies strive to get their employees back and you also want to attract the best. And then it has become more and more important with a central position at the office and that what is outside the door at the office is perhaps decisive in this attraction power. And I would say that we benefit from this trend. If we look at the vacancies on the market, we see here in relation to previous years that there are rising vacancies on all sub-markets except in CBD and Arena-staden. So we have felt that there is a pressure towards the city core and if you want to attract the best, then you want to sit in the city. And then I should say that the rental levels have also been stable despite these increased vacancies. They have been stable in all marketplaces, nominally. But in the city they have also increased. In reality, it is declining in many sub-markets. Here we see the vacancies in Gothenburg and here we also see that the vacancies have increased. This has been described earlier, there has been a very large increase in new properties on the market, which has been greater than what the take-up itself is. But despite these increased vacancies and at these levels, you almost always see declining rents. So you haven't seen it here. Apparently nominal, but... And here I think it's these new construction projects that require a certain discount, they can't go lower rents. And then it puts a little normative rent on the market. For the stores, it has been a really challenging year. For large parts of retail, some segments, especially those that go more towards luxury, have done very well. The trader has had rising costs with wages, with energy, with transportation, for employees. There has been a weak crown, the purchase of goods has become more expensive. At the same time, households are affected by increased costs, which makes the consumers hold their money much harder. So it has become less traded in the stores. We have also seen a very high proportion of contests during this year. I think you can go back to more than 10 years since you had this level of number of contests. So I think that 2024 will also be a challenging year for retail, but in our dialogues with customers at Nyhetyrning is that you still start to look beyond this and that we have seen a somewhat increased interest lately. If we look at the real rental development in the stores, we can see that it is falling. It is a pretty strong turn down and it is during this period where we have had a very high inflation. Here we see some of the shops in this property. We have received Chanel, APC, French brand, ATP, Swedish brand, but with a little Italian design. Prada has also opened a new shop in Reniln 18, down by Smålandsgatan, Birgavsgatan. In Gothenburg we have made several rentals. Here we see Intimissimi in the fifth floor. We have made a new surface for servera also in the fifth floor. And we also need some restaurants and water holes so that the customers stay up. And this is the Vätnamhaken. Should we take a bus here?

Yes, NK. Just as Anders mentioned, it has been a challenging year for retail in general. It depends a lot on the high interest rate and the consumers do not really want to open the book. So it has affected NK. If we look at our revenue development in the warehouse, the blue stacks, we have still increased the revenue by 4% despite this, but this is also nominal, so inflation at 6% we have backed real 2% approximately. But unfortunately, we have had a downward trend on the rents, the yellow line here. And this is due to just what Anders was talking about, that our tenant guests have had a really tough situation with higher costs, including due to the crown reduction, but also other costs. So we have helped and given them some discounts here and there, so we have a weak downward rental curve here with 3%. And it's the same trend in both cities. What we have worked and focused on in 2023 is to continue to develop the warehouse physically, the physical environment. We have 40 departments in Stockholm that have been upgraded or new departments, so that's quite a lot. And also in Gothenburg, 10 of them. So we have continued to have an economy to upgrade the warehouse, and we see that we get very good reviews from our customers about this. Since a few years ago, we have also worked with the digital development focus, including e-commerce, but also nk.se. We have continued to do this during the year and have developed it in a positive way. We have also worked with NK-nyckeln, our loyalty program, and had a larger project where we have replaced the technical platform. Now we have an updated system, so we will be able to There will be more personalization compared to the customers. And this was done in the fall, so it will be a successful development of this in the future. We also put a lot of effort into digital communication and continue to do so, so that we see it as an integrated part of the entire platform with e-commerce and nk.se, where nk.se is actually the hub in our meetings with customers. Another area that is very important for NK is that the experience when you come to the warehouse should be really wonderful. We really want to create a great feeling and it should be events, happenings and so on. It is also an area that we have developed during the year, but will also continue to do so in the future. And sometimes we have added some additional restaurant units so that we have strengthened the food supply, which is also very important for our customers. nk.se and e-commerce and some figures. We are still in an upgrade phase. About 50% of the departments are launched. We are up to 22,000 products now and it is a lot of NK Retail that has also launched many products here with our subsidiary. And sales increased by 35% and visits by 20% compared to the previous year. So it is still in the development phase and it will continue this year. NK Retail is a bit odd for a real estate company to run a retail business, but we do it as a subsidiary company to NK. And here, as we see, their role is to run multi-brand divisions, i.e. divisions under the name NK. NK-man or NK-gallery, as it is called on the day plan. Jewel salon, we run the cosmetics. It is a slightly different business. We took over a company during the pandemic that we have continued and there are exciting development opportunities in combination with NK. A lot of synergies that we work with here. Today it covers 30% of the area. Vår långsiktiga idé med det här är att fortfarande ha det kvar, men hela tiden jobba med det. Det kan växa, det kan krympa över tid. Men vi fortfarande ska ha entreprenörer och varumärken som hyr ytor av oss, till stor del. In terms of revenue, they ended up at 789 million, which is an improvement of 4%. So it's like the household in general. And the result ended up at minus 49 million. So that's not good. We need to improve that, absolutely. But it's an improvement compared to the previous year. And the reason for this negative result is the high interest rate that has dampened the consumption. So we haven't really gotten this turn on sales. Which has led to quite strong realizations. Among other things, now that the weekend is ending. And we have had a lot of renovations as well, we have upgraded a whole lot of furniture. And you may have been able to see one command for example in Stockholm that has become fantastically beautiful and is very famous from consumers but also from the brand. One of the strongest manned destinations in Northern Europe, the brand is talking about. If we look ahead, we might have been able to continue on the same path, that we will increase and improve the assortment all the time, go a little more towards premium and luxury in a larger extent, continue to develop a digital side with nk.se, e-commerce and the loyalty program, how we can make use of the new systems we have and the stock experiences. And of course, there is a great focus on increased profitability at NK Retail. and make the entire NK more efficient in order to make sure that the salary is improved in total. That was all from me.

I will try to summarize this a little bit and look forward. I would say that 2023 has still felt like a challenging year, but I feel a bit of caution before 2024. The capital owns some of Stockholm and Gothenburg's most beautiful properties. They are placed or accommodated in attractive locations near public transport. This gives us a unique position on the market and good conditions in the future. Together with other actors, we will develop attractive marketplaces in Stockholm and Gothenburg to get people to enjoy themselves, feel safe and where they can develop. Johanna is our largest development project. And in terms of time, we are actually halfway through. And now in the last days, I would say that the interest is really starting to grow. The project will contribute to strengthening Gothenburg City. And we will offer a wonderful mix of different businesses. In addition to our development projects, we will focus on core operations, that is, our administrative operations. We will take care of our customers, we will facilitate for customers in their everyday life. We are going to work actively with the value. We saw that the vacancies were on the way up a little bit. This will be lowered during the year. At the same time, we will work to optimize the operation of our properties so that we keep the costs down. As Bosse said, NK is in a phase of development. We have worked a lot digitally and here the focus is on increasing profitability in the properties. Sustainability is an important part of our daily work and we at Huvudstaden want to be part of and contribute to sustainable development. When I walk around in our building and see our beautiful and well-preserved properties, I feel proud. Our strong contributions are the foundation of our business. And that, together with our competent and committed employees, With our competent employees and our strong financial position, we have very good opportunities to increase the results in the ongoing business and also give a good share growth over time. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Anders. I remind those of us who follow us digitally to send us questions via the web. And of course, there will be an opportunity for you in the room here to ask questions as well. But I thought I'd start with your question. I think I'll start with you, Anders. A little cautious about the world of property in the future. I think that the gilders should rise. What do you think is needed so that we can see a more planned trend? And then connected to the capital specifically, it is not uncommon that your values are actually lower than the external values. What do you experience in the difference this year compared to the external?

Yes, that we are a little cautious. We don't want to lose ourselves in the world, of course. And I think that if you look at the market, there are a lot of other real estate companies that resonate just as we do. And my interpretation is that in order for business to start, the price structure must be a little different in order for the appetite to come.

And do you have any interest on that? No. I thought, Bosse, NK Retail, it's certainly reduced the negative results, but as you say, you're not satisfied. How much can you manage this yourself? Or is it just a matter of conjecture that if we possibly see some interest rates drop, then the history says that it should come back? And do you dare to say when you possibly break even, at least at NK Retail?

No, I don't think I dare to do that. But I think that, as you mentioned, when the interest rates may drop, if we do this in the future, we will get a positive effect. I think we have already seen it when TD just came out with information about that we had started to think about it a little bit. So we saw a little positive effect. So I think that will contribute strongly in the future. Then of course we also work ourselves with the whole thing to trim our departments and upgrade, as I talked about here, and work with the digital communication. So we have a lot going on that I think will give effect.

Åsa, as CFO, you showed a picture here of banks and obligation financing and how it looks. The feeling is that the obligation market has started to move a little. The strategy of the capital here in the future, will there be more or less banking financing or have you been out and tested the obligation market? What do you think about the pricing? How does it look, banks against obligations, for you specifically?

Vi emitterade en obligation i slutet på året och vi ser att det finns ett stort intresse för obligationsemissioner och det gör det fortfarande och vi ser att det kommer vara så även framåt. Det är väl som på många andra delar att det är större skillnad nu på bra och dåliga objekt i fastighetsmarknaden och samma sak när det gäller finansiering. Här känner vi att vi är ett bra bolag med låg risk, alltså får vi bra villkor även på obligationsmarknaden. It is still the case, I think, that the obligation market is a little more expensive than bank financing, but if you look at the trends, I think it will plan out. We have chosen a lot of bank financing in the last two years, but will then switch back to having a more even mix between obligations and bank loans.

Let's see if we have any questions from the audience and then there is a mic over there so you can wave your hands if you have anything.

Thank you very much. First a question about the vacancies that will be able to come down in 2024. We have project vacancies including them, so we are at 8.8. Do you think above all that we will be able to rent out in the quarter of Johanna? Or is it total vacancies? can decrease so that we can already get a positive cash flow during 2024. So what type of vacancies do you see in front of you should be able to decrease?

I would say we have a lot of vacant offices in Gothenburg that I think we should rent out in nice locations. In Stockholm we have a number of store locations that I think and some know will be rented out. So this is just a hard job, a grueling hunt for customers and I think that it has actually been a little slow and quiet here for a period, but I think it will come about here later during the spring actually.

Sen lyfter ni fram att topphyrorna i Göteborg är på 4200 i rapporten. Offerterar ni högre än så i kvarteret Johanna, eller är det där omkring ni ligger? Much higher.

I don't want to go into that.

One last question about retail. You mentioned that there is some kind of enlightenment or that you dare to look a little more forward. I assume that it is mainly the more luxury-driven brands, but do you see any potential trend changes? We have seen quite a few years in a row with negative negotiations and a declining rent, especially real estate, as you show up. Or is it reasonable to expect that the press continues slowly but surely down to a number of years? Any comment on that? Thank you.

I would say that it will be very exciting to see here now, because if you look at the retail market, you have to go back to just before the pandemic. Something happened here, it pressed the companies and many companies started to question how many stores you should have, where they should be. And the trend on the market is that many brands decrease in number. There are some exceptions, but many decrease. And then I think that those who are left should share on the cake that exists, or the market itself. So it will be very exciting to see what happens with the rents from now on. We know, for example, the area of the library city, it is a very large interest. And here there are many actors. And I should also say that even down in Gothenburg, that something is happening here now. And I think it's connected a little bit with these where you expect interest rates to drop and that the purchasing power will come and that there may even be some uptemp. I don't think this is going very fast. As soon as you get an interest rate drop, you don't go out and start buying, but it will come back successively, I think. My opinion is that the physical trade has actually strengthened during the year. I feel that those who have been and gone only in the digital track, they open a physical store. And if you have only been on the physical arena, then you start to open some kind of e-commerce. And almost all brands have e-commerce today. So this is a new situation.

Thank you very much.

I can continue on the topic of vacancies. Do you have any idea of how big the difference is between the visible and the hidden vacancy rate? I get the impression that there are a lot of rental companies in Stockholm that want to rent out on the other hand. Companies that might rent out a lot of spaces when the money was free and now don't really need all the spaces. Is there any reliable statistics on that difference?

I don't have any statistics on that. I think that these hidden vacancies that we are talking about is the effect that I mentioned earlier with home work and much better digital aids where you can work in a slightly different way. And if you are a company that rents larger areas, then there is almost a great potential for everyone. But the rental agreements fall a little bit successively. So this is with and I would say disturbs the market. But I read a report recently released where it is said that these effects will be successful during the year or in the coming years.

Given the image you give with a very strong demand for offices in all your locations, if it is a tenant who has five years left on the lease contract and says we pay two years upfront today and then you tear this contract, is it an attractive offer for your part to be able to rent out again or how do you see it?

It hasn't happened for the first time, but you have to look at each case for yourself. You have to look at the tenants, what type of premises, when did we invest last, very important. You don't want to burn out the money. But in this area, there are quite a few who are interested in the office side as well. Vi tittar fall till fall.

Tack!

Thank you very much, I will stick to one question. I was going to ask a little about investments. This was the second year in a row that you have over 1 billion in investments. I think it landed on 1.3 billion for 2023. How do you see the volume of investments in the future for 2024 and 2025, not least now? A bit like Anders said, that you are now starting halfway to Johanna and I guess that it is now that the tempo is screwed up in that type of project.

I would say that we do not need to close down some projects because we have such a strong financial position. If you look at a little longer term, now we are going to finish these projects, so it will go exactly as we have planned and as we have already done before. But afterwards, I would say, it will probably be a little calmer on the investment side. Vi har haft flera stora projekt här i Stockholm. Vi har nästan varit inne och rotat i varje fastighet i Göteborg. Då kommer vi mer att fokusera på förvaltningen och skörda frukterna av det vi har gjort. Det skulle jag säga några år.

Okej, tack. Vi tackar för engagemanget, ni som varit med digitalt och här i salen. Det finns möjlighet att göra lite rundvandring här. Men jag tror vi avslutar där och säger tack så mycket till er för en god presentation.

Tack. Vänta, innan vi reser oss upp här. John!