Implantica AG

Yeah, good afternoon everybody. This is Peter Forssell speaking and as you know Implantica is focused on bringing advanced technology into the body. And what is maybe important for newcomers is that this is not the first time we run a successful business. We have previously done the gastric band as well. And Implantica is a quite interesting company because we have built an e-health platform. And e-health will be the future of healthcare. And with this system you can then integrate and treat patients on distance. You can have energizing at the patient's home and there is different aspects. So you can basically you center all the intelligence and the treatment from inside the body. And the doctor could then control the treatment from distance. And that's a very advanced system needed because it can't be hacked, it can't be anything happening. And this is many, many years of work. And this system will change healthcare. And we have many, many products in the pipeline. However, now when we are coming closer here to the really launching reflux stop and also in the US, this is of course our main focus for the moment. So we have wireless power systems and we have the e-health platform designed. And we have patents, many patents for using these platform technologies. We filed for example more than 25,000 pages of e-health patent filing. So we are very well protected for very advanced technology which will come in there going forward. And our vision is that we should become the world leader in smart medical implants. So there we set the tone of the discussion. So let's move over to reflux stop. Looks like this sitting on the instrument where you introduce it. And for our new listeners I just want to try to explain how reflux stop works. So all technology you try to close this winter between the stomach and esophagus because you don't want acid coming up because acid is burning esophagus. You get pain, you can get cancer, it's not pleasant. And there is one method from Dr. Nissen. He developed that you wrap around the top part of the stomach, it's like you mount and you wrap it around to support the closing. And also you have a product from Johnson and Johnson, it's called Lynx, where it's magnets who try to close and support closing. The problem is that this affects your food passageway. It gets more difficult to swallow, you can't get something up as easily, it's more difficult to get things up, bells, vomit. And you swallow all the time with your saliva or food, you swallow gas or air, and this is accumulated, you get swollen distended in your abdomen. And reflux stop has a completely different treatment method. We don't affect the food passageway at all, it's completely undisturbed and that means normally we should not get any swallowing difficulties called dysphagia. And we simply let the body treat, we just restore the normal anatomy, the normal physiology, and thereby the body treats itself. So the previous theory that is ring muscle, the swinter here is weak, that's not correct, nothing wrong with the swinter. And you see it with the three drawings how you actually then restore the functional anatomy and the body just with itself. And that's sort of the key to success here and that's why we say we treat the cause of acid reflux. And that also means that the result is thereafter. Here you see a little bit how it looks from inside the stomach and from an x-ray, you see the little nice device placed in position. And it's one billion people who suffer from acid reflux, as an absolutely enormous amount of people. And most people take drugs, they are called PPIs, proton pump inhibitors. And the problem with these drugs is that they don't help everybody. 40% of sufferers are not helped by the drugs. So we have 400 million people without discussing the complications with the drugs and side effects and the risk of taking the drugs. Just forgetting that for a moment, it's still 400 million people who is not treated today. And the problem and you have acid coming up in your lower esophagus is that it happens over and over again. And this is how you create cancer. So if you put an endoscope or gastroscope down in a patient who is suffering from acid reflux, 10 to 20% have plecancer changes. It's called Barrett's esophagus. And then you have a certain percentage every year who get the full minimum cancer. So in Europe and United States alone, 48,000 people die from the type of cancer you get from this disease. We can't say for 100% that all of them are caused by acid reflux, but most of them are caused by acid reflux. So it's a really serious disease. And you can take these PPI drugs when you are young, it's okay. But because they get you more arteriosclerosis, so you get more cardiovascular disease. And you get older in your blood vessel simply to take it lifelong. That's nothing I would never do. And it's increasing, of course, then the complication. If you're young, you take this for a few years, it's probably okay. But when this disease is lifelong, you need to take this medicament all the time. So this was a little background that I'm sorry, I repeated for those who know this and I'm sorry for those who don't know this. So I'm not going to go in and out, but it's just to have a little starting point here. And now I come to the real business update of this. So reflux op is currently on a way of great success, I would say. And that's carried by a multitude of published studies with excellent outcomes from leading reflux centers. And it is actually very, very important. That center after center, independent research, their own research, they come out and say, hey, reflux stop is fantastic. That is how you quickly build a new standard of care in this treatment field. And that's our goal. Our goal is to become the new treatment for reflux sufferers. And we are building it step by step, but it has started to bear fruit. And I will give you some examples later on in this presentation. So we have again, our three pillars, I have showed it many times before. And I started a little bit with the market expansion, regular approvals, new centers, and so on to give you a little feedback. So first of all, we have our first module, our PMA. And we have got the feedback from FDA. It was only from the company's perspective, minor things, nothing that we can't answer or correct, which is very, very positive. For strategic reason, we decided that we will file our module two together with the answer. And that's we have been doing right now. And it's not so far away, of course, from filing now the module two. It's hard to give an exact date. Many people involved, we have around 10 people working on this PMA. So, but it will be in the near term, we will file, of course, then module two. And module two includes the clinical data, all the clinical results from our now five-year study. And I will give you some insight into that as well. In parallel, UK, NHS, the National Health Service, who stands for the public health care in UK, they have started to investigate the reflux doc to see if it should give it full payment in their health care system. And we are starting to operate in more and more NHS hospitals, as a public health care hospitals. And NHS, they have an organization called NICE, National Institute for Health and Care Excellence. And they are defining who should be treated, what should they be treated with, and which products should we approve in our health care system. And they give guidelines. And this is what we are actively working on right now. We have a meeting with them in September. We have supplied a big dossier to them. And that's, of course, interesting because these effects, not only UK, they are very influential, this NICE. We have now more than 35 hospitals and more than, it says 850, it's more than 900 patients. It will soon reach 1,000, I guess. So it's going step by step. We are still focusing on the countries you have seen before. We have been quite successful in Italy and Spain, as you know. And I can give you some centers that have started, which is quite important. One is University of Southampton. And this is a very interesting hospital because in many treatment areas, they supply health care for four million people down there in Southampton. So it's a huge, huge hospital. And here we did the surgery. You see the grumpy man there, that's me, together with Dr. Fergus Nobel there. And it was robotic surgery. So what you see to the left of Dr. Nobel there is actually a robotic system. So it was completely done with robotic surgery, which is quite interesting. Also in Germany, we have a very important hospital. It's Herzogogin Elisabeth Hospital in Braunschweig. And this is nice because it's an E-NEC reporting hospital. That means they report all their cost for the procedure, which is quite valuable for us when we should have increased reimbursement in Germany. We can refer to these centers who operate. So we are collecting these type of centers for the moment to get more and more surgery done, which is directly reported to the health care society. And in Spain, we have Dr. Sanchez started to operate. We have another center in Spain, in Valencia, also started. And of course, not all the centers. I just wanted to give you some feeling. It's nice to see some nice pictures with happy health care people. Although in Spain, they have decided that they should use these very orange colors so people should not steal their dresses, their clothing, because they are so ugly that no one wants them. But it looks very ugly when you see them also. So, yeah, that's this. Also, we have made some really nice marketing campaigns. So we have really started now, and especially in the UK, you know, we wanted really to come from the patients up to the surgeons. And we need really to create more hospitals and more interest in reflux stop. So we had the patient story featured on BBC South Today, Breakfast News, and also on ITV. And it was around and started with 8 million viewers. But this ended up in 67 different publication pieces. People took this up from everywhere, everything from TV to press to an incredible reaction. And people who understand this have calculated that the potential reach was 1.17 billion people from this campaign. And Dr. Fergus Noble at Southampton, he described the incredible number of patients inquiring as just inundated, he called it. So many people calling the hospital after this campaign, so it was just incredible. Because we have one out of five have this disease. And that's why you get so many patients. We have done a similar in Italy, where we had a TV channel called Rai to have a 50 minute long patient story, of course, a success story. And this was picked up by five television agencies, six news agency and 13 online channels. And they calculated the total reach of this campaign to 9 million people. So the hospital involved here who started this process, they had to set up a new call centre, just to handle all the phone calls from patients, as a complete separate person, just doing nothing else than answer requests from patients. That's how huge this treatment field is. This is just to give you a feeling of the potential of this product. Problems still we have is that we need to get paid for the product. It's nice to sell a product, but if you don't get paid, it's more difficult. And what we need is the public health care system to pay for the product. And that's what we are working on step by step by step. So let's go to the next pillar in our, you know, three key pillar market access profile here. And that's, of course, we need to create superior clinical evidence. And that I would say we have been very successful. So here I wanted just to show you we have a complete team to support surgeons, help them with different things, to get things, presentations, articles, everything done. And we have so far this year, 36 conference abstracts submitted. We have 28 oral posters. We have 20 submitted manuscripts. 12 are published. And seven additional manuscripts completed and ready for submission. This is a heavy work. And this means that it's more and more of these centers now who have started with reflux stop some years back. Now it's starting to bear fruit. They come out with their own results. Everybody says, oh, reflux stop, that's fantastic. That's surgeons to surgeons that is 100 times more effective than salespeople selling any product. We are of course doing our RCTs. I think I have a special little slide on that. So I will come back to our studies, which is also very important. And yeah, here is the slide. Sorry. So we have got the committee approval in Vienna, Austria, because it's Professor Schopman at AKH. It's the largest university hospital in Europe, actually in Vienna here. They are the leading hospital in this randomized trial comparing standard of care and missing from the application. And they got the approval. In Austria, though, it's some kind of competent authority that also need to say it give us sort of say the okay. So it's another application file. And that is said that you should be maximum one month. And I think some weeks has already passed of that. So we are very close now to finally get started with this RCT. And we have more in in Frankfurt. It's also in Germany. There was a visit by Dr. Mustafa El Shafai to the committee. And they basically have said that they will approve also in Germany. Switzerland is already filed. It's quicker handling. I think it also very soon will be ready to start So we can really get going with this first very important RCT randomized trial where you you basically have lottery which you should operate the reflex stop or standard of care. And we also have then many superior articles coming out and I will guide you a little bit through that. So first of all, we have our excellent four year results. And this is the results. But five years that we are using for our FDA. We have not told you yet about the five year results. I can say so much. They are also excellent, but we have presented a four year results. And you have a link in our press releases. I think we I didn't put it here. We have in our press release. We have given you a link if you want to read yourself. This is published in Söderlika which is a very interesting journal because it's the official journal of the American GI and endoscopic surgeon society. And it's also the European Association for endoscopic surgery. So this is a very influential magazine. They are involved in the guidelines to the payers to, you know, society to tell what should be used and not used. It's a very important magazine here. And the results, of course, is I mean, I should be objective and say fantastic. You can say nothing less than fantastic to be objective here. It's incredible results basically. So there is here you see regurgitation. That's how many how much is coming up, you know, as the reflag is basically often called by regurgitation is coming up somewhat fluid in your sofa goes and here you can see how it has developed over the years. And you see that it's stable. It's nothing all this we have four years. It's the outcome is stable. And if you look at swallowing problems, which is one serious difficulties with standard of care, you know, we have between 30 and 50 percent of the patients with five year results have swallowing difficulties with standard of care. And here you can see we have one patient, one single patient with swallowing problems. This is what you call night and day to have half of the patients or one patient. That's really different. And basically no patient takes any drug PPI due to acid reflux. It's actually two patients who took drugs, but not for acid reflux. They have something called gastritis, some mock at her in Swedish. And there is other reasons, you know, that patients could not be happy. But the key is, is it because of acid reflux? Because that's what we treat. We don't treat, you know, other problems. We have also another very interesting magazine. This is also a very, very highly respected magazine is called Swiss Medical Weekly. And this is the magazine where Dr. Nissen, you know, the one who invented the Nissen for duplication, the current standard of care has been used all the way since 1956. He published his results in this magazine back in 1956. So this is a really top of the line press here. And then we have Dr. Setner who published his first results. And that's very interesting because he has operated patients who doesn't have any good treatment today. So he had operated patients, we call them ineffective esophageal motility. And that means that your nerves and muscles in lower esophagus, that doesn't work like they should. You don't transport food as you should. You are very weak at transporting the food down. So these patients often have swallowing difficulties. And you can imagine if you then put in a circle something around the esophagus and try to press to close, they have really get difficulties to swallow. So these patients, according to the nice guidelines I talked about before, they are not recommended for surgery. These patients have no good treatment today. And also the large hernia existing treatment, they have like 50% recurrence rate in five years. So 50% of the patients need to be re-operated. So neither of these two groups has really any good treatment today. And I would say the IEM patients, that's one third of the sufferers. And large hernia is another third of the sufferers. So we talk about here two thirds of the sufferers who really doesn't have any good treatment. At least not the IEM patients. The other one you get to re-operate over and over again. So we had a little statement from Dr. Ossetian, professor of UFC. No, USC. Yes. Based on 150 reflux cases I've performed over the past four years, it's clear reflux stop has the potential to reform how we treat severe gourd patients, especially with ineffective so far gourd dysmotility, where reflux stop is turning out to be the best available treatment option. So we have been from this perspective very successful. Here you see his results. You can see that after surgery, all patients were satisfied except maybe a couple of patients of these 40 who was neutral. No one was dissatisfied after surgery here. You see the swallowing problems, they are fading out also after the surgery that the patient had before surgery. And you can see you have a questionnaire here when you ask questions before and after surgery, the very long ones, or when you ask the questions before surgery, the non-existing or very low ones, they are after surgery. And in this case, we have separated questions for heartburn also. And you see they go down to zero. You see regurgitation goes down to zero. And the total score is improving dramatically from 35 to two in median IQR scale here. So it's just absolutely astonishing results, not matched by any other technology. Anything I'm aware of in the literature can match this. We have also Professor Schopman, which is leading the RCT study. He has done another study of just IEM patients, these with defect motility. And his conclusion is, you know, this is excellent result in this group of patients with IEM who have no optimal treatment available until now. And this is published in Nature Scientific Reports. This is one of the most highest respected and rated magazines in the world here we talk about. So he got it immediately published because this is such a great news. Here you see a little bit his results, the score goes down and a little bit also the different things. So I would say we are carried on a way of success in terms of publications and convincing the healthcare society here. We extremely well, nothing less you can say. Then we have the cost effectiveness, you know, and that we have again published more articles. So we go through country after country to conclude that reflux stop is the most cost effective anti-reflux treatment. That's very important for the payers. And this we have been doing now in many more countries. So we have Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Italy. So we have a couple of articles published also here. So we have Swiss cost effectiveness published in Journal of Medical Economics, also very respected journal. We have in Italy published in Pharmaco Economics, also very influential magazine. So it's all about building blocks. It's like you're building a house. We are building it from the ground and up. And we do it professionally. We do it methodically step by step. Yes, that's time then for Andreas to say something about the capital market and finance. Andreas, the world is yours.

Thank you very much, Peter. Good afternoon or good morning. We reported net sales of 554,000 euro for the quarter, an increase of 59% compared to the same period last year. This driven by a combination of new centers and higher activity levels at existing centers. As a reminder, in Europe, we are only selectively engaging with key opinion leaders to build a reimbursement platform. In the US, we are not commercial as we're currently in the FDA approved process as outlined earlier. Let us turn to gross margin. We continue to deliver industry-leading gross margins. Adjusted gross margins for the quarter amounted to 91% compared to 94% in the same period last year. We expect to continue to see quarter on quarter volatility in the gross margin levels. This provided the subscale nature of the current operation. The combination of superior gross margins and no limitations to scaling reflux production underpins the operating leverage we can expect as the business scales and matures. Let us look at earnings before interest in the quarter. The operating loss expanded to 5.9 million euro up from 4.3 million euro in the same period last year. Looking at the quarter on quarter development, we saw OPEC decreasing by 1.3 million euro from the elevated cost levels we experienced in the connection with the FDA filing preparations over Q1 this year. The quarterly GA cost remained roughly flat year on year. We experienced an increase in R&D spending where R&D expense for the quarter came in at 3 million euro versus 1.2 million the same period last year. A key difference compared to the same period last year was the 1.1 million euro capitalization of development expenses in Q2 2023. For Q2 2024, this number was close to zero as all R&D was expensed in the P&L. As communicated earlier, we are continuing to reduce investment in e-health and pipeline product as we redeploy resources to commercialization or reflux stop, including the randomized clinical trials that were discussed. These trials are reflected as R&D expense in our financial statements. Let us turn to slide 52. We are fortunate to have a robust financial position. Over the quarter, the total net cash outflow amounted to 6.3 million euro. End of June, we held 74 million euro cash and we do not carry any interest bearing debt on our books. And with that, let us turn to slide 53. In addition to our CEO and main shareholder, Dr. Peter Purcell, and other senior leaders in the organization, our investor base is dominated by Swedish and Swiss high quality institutions. And we are grateful for the trust and support we are receiving to build a commercial organization to address a massive unmet patient need. Back to you, Peter.

Thank

you very much. Yeah, I guess it should then be time. First of all, I want to thank everybody for listening. And then I think it's time for questions. If anyone has any questions, see if I have received any written.

We'll ask the questions first. We'll go to the, anyone who has to ask any written questions.

We have written the question also.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Qian Han Li from Pareto Securities. Please go ahead.

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. So first question regarding the randomized control trial. Since you are involving the first patient in Q3, how many patients do you plan to enroll in total for the Nissan classification trial? And is there any cost estimate for both of the trials? Thank you.

Yeah, so in the Nissan trial, it will be 100 patients in each group. And we have then a second trial with University of Oxford, where we have been waiting for all the regulatory approval in that hospital. We are coming close to start as well. And that is 75 patients per group in a trial. And that will then compare PPI use. And in IEM patients, one with the swallowing difficulties I talked about. And of course, it's not for free to do studies. It will cost a few million extra to do this. That's clear. We, of course, are trying to negotiate hard with the hospitals to don't ask for too much money. But it's clear that some millions extra, but we intend to save those millions by reducing a bit our other outlay. And as you know, we have had extremely high outlay for our FDA approval because it's so many tests and validations. And it's a few consultants needed for that project as well. So quite heavy extra costs we have had. We don't expect that we should increase any cost because of the trial.

Thank you very much. And the second question is about the NICE IPAC decision, which is expected in first half 25. So let's say if the result is or the decision is positive, to which extent do you think it will help the UK reimbursement? Do you think it will automatically cover, the government will be able to cover the cost?

So the NICE, they have different groupings. So you can get in a group where you are fully reimbursed, or they can say, okay, we pay for you, but only in the study mode, for example. So when you do patients in the study, like we have our big registry study, for example, ongoing all over Europe. So if you are doing the NICE study, you can get paid, for example. And this is different levels. And we don't know, you know, if they, it's a balance. We have fantastic results. But of course, we don't have, we don't have hundreds of articles. We have, the really good ones is maybe 10 articles or so. And the question is, just if NICE thinks this is good enough with this amount, but the results, they are outstanding. So if we are lucky, you know, you can compensate amount with quality. But it is impossible to say simply.

Okay. Thank you. And yeah, the final question from me. So regarding the commercial strategy in the US, do you plan to market the product by yourself? Or do you, are you also looking for some sort of commercial partnership? Or you plan to adopt the similar strategy in Europe as you are targeting the top the PLLs and top medical centers? Thank you.

Yeah, so we have basically already identified the starting centers in US. So as you know, we had a big study, training study on cadavers where we educated. So we have the surgeons in US has been trained on the procedure. And we had four European surgeons over there. And we had 45 surgeries done. So we already have like 20 hospitals lined up to start already. And people are very enthusiastic. We have been very successful also with the marketing in US. So we can probably easily start with double that amount quite easily in US. And so we don't think we need any big sales organization, we just need the right people who can be trained and go there and visit them and so on. But to identify the centers, they come to us basically.

Okay, thank you very much and congrats on the progress.

Thank you.

As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad.

So waiting

for if anyone want to ask a question directly, I can maybe answer some of the written question here. So someone here is asking Robert, I suppose your second audio will include the five year data. So yes, FDA has said that they are happy with our study. That's the information we have got so far. And yes, it's the five year data we are filing for FDA. So this is the big package of stuff. And for your information, we talk about 600 pages of tables and graphs and figures approximately for such a filing for your understanding how huge this is. How is your RCT going? I think I basically answered that a little bit during the presentation. So we are still very, very soon now starting up. When file for Japan, Japan and France. So in Japan, we are getting to use United States to avoid any clinical trial. So we are in the preparation work. We have brought surgeons from Japan to Europe, train them. They are involved to help us to support. So we are setting up meetings to discuss. And the goal is that they should be happy with the US approved process in Japan. In France, it's needed another study. And our goal is that we should try to incorporate our existing randomized trial in the France process. Strafegak acquisition. For the moment, I don't think we are targeting any acquisition. Yeah. And then we have, see here if I can scroll. Okay, another question of Japan. I think I basically answered that it's ongoing, but by taking it a bit calm and using the US data, we probably will save time in the long run. Module

one.

Why

would you

get on for the state in summer?

Yeah.

So yeah, the question here with FDA, did someone is asking if you only have, you know, three months between the modules and so on, why we still take to the summer 2025, he asks. And the answer is that the most key part of this is FDA's visit to our production site. So if they will come to us, they will visit our office, they will visit all the people who's involved doing the packaging, the production of the tool, the device itself. And what really decides the timeline in the end is how quickly these audits, these visits could happen. So the filings of the modules that will be done somewhere in the spring, then we have sort of, and it's all about, you know, how positive FDA is to us. That's why we try to have a good relation to FDA and try to, that's more important than anything that try to do things in a professional good way. And someone is then asking when module two is coming and they are asking is it one to three months, three to six months or six to 12 months. It's of course the one to three months we are targeting as soon as possible now. And here we have another question.

This is,

yeah, the answer is of course that it's fantastic. Somebody's asking about if these results help us to get reimbursement and the answer is of course yes. That's extremely valuable and it could not have gone better. And this is, you know, independent university hospitals have published this. It's not being implanted anymore. And that of course holds a really high value when independent surgeons come and say the same thing. That oh, your fantastic study, you made a CMARC study. We can see it. We have the same results or even better results. I mean, that's what really counts here. Another question about Japan, surgical instrument question that's

repeated. Okay. What are we here? FDA timeline. France. Yes. Yeah, so. Yeah, have the first surgeries been done in Sweden

and Norway?

Yeah,

they have. So in Sweden we've done the first three surgeries and successful surgeries. It's just the healthcare economics in Sweden who a little bit is the problem that there is sort of just saving mode rather than sort of it seems like the patient's best is not longer what drives the healthcare in Sweden. It's just costs who drives. And so we don't really know how that will go out. And maybe we need someone to start to operate on Sophia if the healthcare system is not able to support. But we have to see. And in the approval in US, you know, we because it's not in our hands, I can tell you a month or a date when I believe it will be ready, but it still depends on FDA. It's not in our hands. And it's just stupid for me to say something because you just feel I'm not a trustable person and it's not correct. But I can't affect FDA. You know, it's a very strong organization and we just have to adapt and do the best. But of course, it could not take forever most hopefully. So maybe sometimes 2025, so to say, we very much hope that we will be approved. But exactly what time of year I can't dare to tell you.

Yeah, what question do I have here? How can we shortly?

Yeah, somebody's asking about the other products. And of course, when we come so close now to really getting a breakthrough with reflux stop and when we hopefully in the not too long future, we'll be able to launch in US. We feel that we need to reduce a little bit on other products. So we have a team continuously working, but it's not it will not be a big, huge team until we either get going now with reflux stop or. So it's a little bit. We have some resources over from the continuous development over to reflux stop now. That's I must honestly say them.

Yeah, I think more or less this is. Change capitalization. Yeah,

Andrea, somebody's asking here, could you elaborate on why you change capitalization rules?

Right, I mean, thanks for the question. And this goes back to what you mentioned about us doing less R&D work on the new products. And most of the R&D attention is going in the direction of reflux stop and reflux stop adjacent products that are not being capitalized.

OK, I see here someone asking where do you see reflux stop in three to five years? And I see reflux stop conquer the world. Basically, that's what we are doing, but this doesn't go in the coffee break. It takes some time, but we have an enormous treatment field. We have a treatment field where too many people die from cancer and we have side effects from drugs that is really nasty long term. I see the only way this can go long term is that people need to be operated for the reflux stop in a higher, higher level than now, much higher, higher level. We can't accept anymore that let people die. I mean, take breast cancer. They don't let people die in breast cancer. They have huge programs to find every breast cancer they can. And here they just let 48,000 people die every year. That's US and Europe only. Only US and Europe I talk about. And for me, this is totally unacceptable. It's so ridiculous. This need to change. And I think that reflux stop has all the attributes to really become a really hit product. That's my opinion. I mean, that's why I invested all my money in this because I mean, I'm a surgeon in this treatment area. So, and the surgeons agree with me now, you know, it's coming. It's not only me. You can read all these different articles from these university clinics. It's not only implanting how it says this the best anymore. So yes, in three to five years, you will be happy if you are an investor of reflux stop that implanting. That's my opinion. Although private opinion, don't sue me. So, yeah, I think that's more or less it. And I thank you very much if you still are listening so long here. But it's always a pleasure. And maybe we see each other soon again. And if anyone, you know, wants some kind of more information, just write to us and we can organize some kind of teams and so meeting or

yeah,

whatever. Thank you very much. Have a really good day.