Inission AB (publ)

All right, hello and welcome everyone to this Q1 presentation by Inition. My name is Henrik Inse and I'm an equity analyst covering the company here to moderate the Q&A session after the presentation. But to begin with, I'll hand over the word to Fredrik Berghel, CEO of the company, to deliver the presentation. If you think of any questions for Fredrik during the presentation, please go ahead and type them in the Q&A chat, and I'll read them out after the presentation. Please go ahead, Fredrik.

Thank you very much, Henrik, and welcome to the initial annual meeting and our Q1 presentation. My name is Fredrik Berger. I started this company together with Olle, soon to be 18 years ago, and we are still both active. I am the CEO of the company and Olle is the chairman. Today, we would like to present the highlights, financial and also a presentation of what we have been up to during 2024. We will go through the same thing really for QWAB 2025. financials and also a verbal description of what we have been up to. Then we will present what we are doing. I almost recognize all the faces here. So you have heard me saying most of these things before, but still. We will also talk about Enedo, our acquisition and growth strategy. And then finally, our financial parts. And then at the end, Henrik will assist up with the Q&A session. So Both here in Karlstad and on the web. Please think of questions during the presentations. Okay, looking at the results for 2024. We had a turnover of 2.15 billion. And there was a drop in organic sales with 126. 191 million SEK, which gave an organic gross profit drop of 15 million. And the comparatively small gross profit drop is due to significantly better material share compared to last year. We also had higher costs. Remembering we added a factory into the ignition program end of January last year, which without an higher cost level. Still though, if we sum this up, the AXA contribution and the AXA EBITDA as a group, we came down 37 million on the EBITDA, which results in a margin, EBITDA margin of 5.8%. And then profit per share became 3.36, which is 1.26 lower compared to last year. If we zoom out a little bit, it's a sales of 2.15 billion. We are running slightly slower than 2023 and the year will be quite a bit less. But still thinking of the home year, this is the second best year in absolute money, both for turnover and for profit in the English history. And then the result decline here, if you put it really simple, we had one factor of extra cost, but due to the slower market, we actually had a low supply. So that is really on the high level of the explanation. So much about the financial debt. Then, what happened during last year? The main bullets. I just talked about Axe, a Norwegian company situated in Halden that came into the group end of January last week. We also, about a year ago, announced our ambition to move to Nasdaq main market. I will revert to that. We also, about one year ago, hired Mattias Larsson as the business area manager for business area initial EMS. Mattias had a previous history all the way back in Moonforce. Welcome. Long time ago. And then he had some other decisions. Originally, Mattias came from the Saab organization. But then also, between... Inisen Munkfors, he came back here. He was at a company called Rainpower just now, then also Anbach in Sunde. And we are very happy to have Mattias back in the family. Initian South invested substantially in new SMT capacity, surface mounting machines. We also, at the peak situation, we also launched new capacity for about 2 million euro in our Estonian factory. Sort of end last year, but really being into production early last year. We also decided to move, I will revert to that also, but we also decided to move the Eniato Tunis factory to the Enision EMS organ system. We hired Elisabeth Nilsson. As our MD for Innovate, Elisabeth has learned history as a Kinsey consultant and she has also worked for Volkswagen, a central organization in Germany. Initial Innovate is our engineering company that have their base in Västerås. We also reinforced our organization with the chief digital officer, Charlotte Jansson. She has some history working for Ericsson, H&M Group, and also Epidemic Sound. We also, for the business area in Edo, hired a new financial manager, Tommy Akapkatke, which has a history in Nordic and Patria, as well as Dana Group. We also rebuild, remade, enlarged the factory in Malmö with about 50%. So towards the end of last year, we actually had a big celebration and the grand opening of the factory there. So we invited our customer, our suppliers, and of course, co-workers from across the organization to celebrate this. It's not so often that they actually open a new factory. partly Owen, but still we made a happening out of this, which we were very pleased on. So much about 2024. Now, moving into Tier 1.25, more recent history. Reported sales decreased with almost 17% to 484 million Swedish kronor. If we also consider the AXE contribution in January, that is not included in the organic sales, The organic growth or organic decline is 19%. So quite a bit of headwind here in our sales situation. So looking at the result of 20 million Swedish kronor in EBITDA result, it is very much volume driven, having 111 lower sales organically. But also, we also had a very much lower materially share. So what I refer to the net added value was only 25 million lower. then cost wise, I have talked about the whole last year and I will keep on talking about cost reduction. We have to break the shrinking cost and we have done that now. So if we add us back for the extra access cost January 5 million ish, we are a year over year, we are square cost. And if you also take order just for the extra cost that our list shapes have been. So we are about annualized about 10 million lower cost level year over year. And then if you also think about that, we have quite a bit of an inflation situation. So we have definitely taken down the cost in the group, but not enough. All in all, then, this results in an Evita market of 4.5%, which is very much lower than compared to last year. Still, Q1 24 was peak level in initial history for a quarter. When it comes to cash flow, we had a decent Q1 cash flow with 34 million Swedish kronor. and driven by improved half-working catch situations. So looking year on year, it looks dramatic. This picture shows the sequence. And here, if you have a little bit good will, you can see that the profit fall hopefully have sort of stabilized now and hopefully we can turn it the other way around. So this is a lot less drastic, I would say. But we will need further cost reduction. And we have a program taking down costs in Italy and in the Tunis quite a bit. We also have a cost reduction program going on in the South. And the result of those, we really want to see now in Q2, the effect of those. But on top of that, we're also adding another cost reduction program. that will start now and then they will be in full effect. Yeah, but then Q3, Q4 are the latest. Because we have to realize if we run on this lower top line, low net added value, then we simply have to adopt the cost to that level so that we reach our, we should be able to reach our profit margin target even on this lower contribution level. So if we see this LTM, last 12, now heard figures, we are around E, just above 2 billion Swedish kronor. And we have an EBITDA LTM of 93 million Swedish kronor, which then is 4.5% as a margin. So, what have we been doing to Juana at the fire? First of all, we had hired a new plant manager or company manager in Nischenbunkfors, Mattias Neumann. He has a background. We have leading positions at Rolls-Royce, which is, by the way, one of our major customers. We also, since Rolls-Royce Kristine Hahn became Kongsberg. Kongsberg, they acquired the role of Rolls-Royce Marine Division. So his most recent posting was working for Kongsberg in Singapore. And Kongsberg now have actually taken over the position as our most important customer since we are selling to Kongsberg both in Sweden and in Norway. So that is one big project that we've been running. We also had worked the whole last year really and also very intensified this first quarter. We have been working with the Nasdaq leveling, going to Nasdaq main market. So we had a big celebration there just a couple of weeks ago. Fantastic. Nicolette and John ringing in the bell there. We had the board around and the group management. So it was really a blast, really. But the important thing is We are doing this to create a better, stable and more secure company following the NAFTA Canadian market routes when it comes to regulations, finance and book. IT security. So there's a number of things that we have improved with the company being able to comply with these rules. And of course, this becomes a quality step for Indonesia, meaning that we can attract also international investors better. Hopefully, we get better visibility so that we will have a better trade in our stock, in our share, better trade, we get a smaller or major spread, less volatility and improve the trade so that the being public really gets, so we get the benefit that was originally meant. And one of those was to use our share as a currency when we do mergers and acquisitions. And yeah, so far it has started reasonably well. We have increased the number of shares traded per day from 10 plus to about 30,000 per day. So these first eight trading days have been quite good. Secondly, we have worked and finalized another big project that we also worked with almost during the full last year and intensify now. And that is actually moving our Enel to Tunis factory into the initial EMS organization, making the the Tunis factory EMS provided. And that has two major things there really. And one is Inedo will become a focused product company. I will revert and talk to Inedo later. So they will be more focused, having only the products, the marketing and the sales to look after. And for Emission EMS, this will widen the offering to the market. meaning that I can actually set higher volumes for a little bit lower cost pairs in series. So we have already now made quite a few RFQs. We had a few customer visits and we already actually have the first win there. Not much in money, but still we have a prototype win. So we hopefully will already during this year ramp up some EMF production together, of course, with the Eneodo production. So Eneodo is now the only and the biggest car there. So here in the picture, you see our management team in Tunis and also a picture from outside. So if we look into the financial performance of the business areas, it is quite a bit. I would say that still, initial EMS, if they are running slower, we had quite a push out from two big accounts in Norway and also one big account in Sweden, meaning that we have pushed about 50 million out of this quarter, which of course affected the top line quite a bit. We also have sales contraction due to the fact that we have receivables in US dollar and the Swedish krona being a lot stronger, that has taken down the sales for currency purposes. In this situation, I think anyhow, having this EBITDA margin of 5.7%, it's not good, but it's decent, I would say. So as I said earlier, now having cost reduction program for Eniedo mostly, but we will also move down into the Emission EMS organization to reduce cost. Business area in Edo, they had an organic sales drop of 30%. That is really dramatic. And that is for the same reasons, really, that we have talked about last year. We have still destocking going on in major accounts. They still have too much on their shelves at the moment. We have cut down on cost, but as you can see from the numbers here, we're selling for 83 million and we're actually losing three. So this is really bad. Our LFDM numbers here is getting close to zero. So we are now shrinking fast in Italy and in Greece. So, yeah, let's just... generally talk about our operations. Our business area today is Inision EMS, contract, manufacturing, industrial electronics. That is what we do. And then we have business area in the OEM. They are providing power supplies. Different to Inision EMS, they are a product company. So they develop their own products, marketing and selling their own products. Venturally, we are working with our values. Long, long, long time ago when we started this company and especially when we launched Initial as a brand, we had a wide discussion within the company. The company was a lot smaller at that time. How do we want to be perceived? How against our customer supplier internally? And then we... talk to more or less all people employed at Delta. And these four value words derived from those discussions. And we'll keep on working with this all the way from our board of directors to all new MLGs. We have education programs. We have... Propaganda, but we also, I think when it comes to the best, that is when we have the daily Pulse meeting in the factory in the morning there, boys and girls saying to each other, what did you do yesterday that was really in line with our values? Did you do anything that was against the values? Somebody have small chitchat there. If we can get that through the organization, I think it's really driving a strong force. We keep on working with our sustainability and here we have really clean production and we are close to our 2025 target of having a net zero, scope one, scope two, when it comes to carbon dioxide. We will perhaps not get close, absolutely down to zero, but then we'll be compensated. So when we sum up this year, we will get there. The main thing that we work on now when it comes to sustainability is to comply with these EU CFRD directive. And that is quite a lot of work there. It's quite a lot of viral proceed, but still we will work to be able to comply to that during this year. That is our target. So over then to business area emission EMS, we are the leading supplier of manufacturing services, mostly for electronics, but also for metal fabrication, sheet metal production. And we also have our own design capabilities. We have a small engineering office in Vestros. We are very much a Scandinavian company. As you see, the sales split. Even though the sales here is mostly Sweden, Norway, Finland, the products that we produce, they will be spread out all over the world. We also think box bill is really important, meaning that we provide to our customer every day product. We learned early in this soon to be 18 year initial lines that the more we do for our customer the more pleased they are when they do the customer survey and also the more we do for our customer the better chance is that we have a good margin. The more value we provide the more there is to share for. It's not more complicated than that. So Inition is very much an acquisition story. We have since we started with 2007 added to the group about a company per year and we have kept on going like this. And I will refer to acquisition strategy, but that is also our ambition for the future to keep on growing also with acquisitions. We call ourselves a toted supplier in that meaning that we provide all the services in a product's lifecycle. And if you look up at the web pages, all our competitors claim that they do the same, but we actually have our own development engineers. We provide both new and old customers extensively with prototypes, helping them industrialize the products. And then, of course, manufacturing is the core of what we are doing. Maybe 90-95% is manufacturing. We have fantastic customer portfolio, where industry is the wildest segment here, but also the biggest. All in all, 37 key accounts built up about 60% of our revenue here. And the largest key account, as I said, is Kongsberg. And there is about 10% of what they are doing for initial EMS. There are some of these, especially defense, that is for sad reasons, had a strong growth. We don't have this type of customer that says, our safe manager says, that safe bag yet. But we have some starting points there. But on the next level, on TU2 suppliers, the suppliers that supply the dogs, there we had some business. And this segment is really, really growing now. Also, the location and communication segment have strong growth. Over to Eneldo in brief. As I said, Eneldo is a product company in difference to Initianelis. They own their own IPRs. Big difference in business model in that sense. And they also, like Initian, they provide customized high-end products. So a big share of any of the products is actually customized product that is tailor-made for that specific customer. Also, Enedo has a fantastic customer portfolio. But here you see also a total difference compared to EMS. That is that they are more of a global company. They have the most customers in the EU and in the US. So 30% of what we are doing in Eniro is going to the US, US customers, I would say, because some of the products are actually sent to their factories in Asia. And a lot of this is power supply, and then we have the little drivers and the smallest, and that is mainly the Finnish part of the company, is DC sisters. Enel has a background in telecom industry in Finland, Nokia related. Then they realized back in the history that it was not really possible to produce that type of sort of high volume products in this part of the world. So they divested the telecom business and they acquired an Italian company, Podroal. And then a few years later, a Finnish company called Powernet. And that is really the days of Enel today. Segment split, you see the lightning, the display, industry and optimization. And here, the Inir customer portfolio is somewhat more concentrated compared to initial units. But the list of their customers, again, it's a very interesting possibility there for also initial EMS to do business with those customers. So a lot of those is also using EMS services. And the other way around, all initial EMS customers, they use Power Supply in their application. So that's where the connection between initial and initial cost goes. So a few words about our acquisition strategy. As I said, we have been acquiring a company per year. And the most important, what we look for when we do this, KUVs, is the customer. manufacturing capacity, and these things that can always be fixed. The key here is the customer, really. But then, of course, management culture, financial potential, and then geographic bias. We think of proximity as an important thing within Initiat, meaning that we want to build out our geography. So we are more or less done in Sweden. Norway, we perhaps want to have something more in Finland. And then Denmark, and then we see Germany as the next possible place to be. We will also, in due course, start to do acquisitions within the Enedo business area. But that will be when we have stabilized the financial meaning, decent profitability, decent cash flow that we will work on. Since we have been doing this for the last 30, 18 years, we think we have become quite good at doing executions. So we have an intensification process, we call it. And we actually lay the ground for the intensification process during the DV. So when we make the analysis of the company, we parallel write down the things that we want to improve, things ethical. target company or things that we see that they'll do really good that we can use back ourselves. And normally this is no easy win there. It's a tedious project that takes a few years actually to develop the profitability. As I said earlier, Axel, a little bit more than one year ago, we acquired those and they are excellent example of the companies that we look for. Øystein here on the picture, he is one of the founders and he's also MD and he is driving this company in a really good entrepreneurship way. Yeah, normally there are quite a bit of synergies between when we take in a new ELS company, but we never use these synergies to just define the products. Some of the items we implement quite fast. It could be financial reporting. It could be the sourcing that everyone in our business have the same component supplier, this worldwide component distributors. So that we use this thing so that will be easy to include then in our program. Cockcake PR, follow up and so forth. We are in a headwind situation now. We dropped organically sales last year, initial EMS 7-ish percent. We have a tough quarter now, but the underlying growth in this industry is really good. And it's driven by the number of mega threats. And these mega threats, they have been there for quite a while, and they have been reinforced, first by the COVID, and then also by this tragic war in Ukraine. And meaning that electrification, for example, when the Russian gas costs too expensive or even banned, electricity also for heat down in Europe, which we already know here in Scandinavia, it's a good trick. The regionalization is another mega achievement that has also been pushed forward by this really big happening in the work. But then, of course, automation, communication, internet of things, machines talking to machines. There is a lot of things that is actually driving the need for and the use for industrial electronics, which is beneficial for, of course, both Eneado and for engineers. Yes, before I jump into our financial targets, I want to show you the history here. We became a public company 10th of June 2015, and since then we have been growing in average cover 25%. So we have been growing reasonably fast. We have had an EBITDA during this time, five-ish, I normally say, but you can see it balanced a little bit. The dip here, 2021, is when we consolidated in the INEADO numbers. That was quite ugly. So coming from this history, we have put forward the financial targets for 2025. So the board of directors have decided these targets to be 2.2 billion Swedish kronor. We target to reach an EBITDA level of 6%. We have a target of having our net debt over EBITDA to be 2.5 or less. Here, the covenant with our bank is a little bit higher. So there's a hedging between our target and the bank covenant. We also want to exceed 30% in equity ratio. And we like to pay dividend. There is a balance, of course, whether the money should stay in the company or go back to the shareholders. But our policy says up to 30% of the tax. And this year we are glad to announce, of course, that we will reach above that. So every share corresponds to one krona in dividend. Mid-term, we have higher targets. We want to grow 15% annually. And if you compare to that historical 25, meaning we would slow down in growth speed. And we want to also to wade over from acquisition-driven growth to organic growth. Because organic growth is really the key factor. to increase the profitability. To increase, to grow organically is extremely hell and focal when it comes to profitability. So that is how we see it. And then we have a set of other things that we also really want to, that we're working on long term so that we should be able to reach 9% if, and that should be looked at three, four, five years down the road. regarding capital structure and equity ratio they are the same short term and also mid term as well as our dividend ambition so that was all from me Henrik do we have any questions?

All right. Very good, Fredrik. I think I'll start us off with some questions on my own and let everyone else gather their thoughts for a few minutes. So first of all, You wrote in the report that deliveries of three high volume products have been moved forward in time. Should we interpret this as a temporary headwind for sales in Q1 or will this keep affecting sales negatively in the coming quarters?

The good answer would be, of course, that this push out, they will end up in Q2. So we think of those push outs as not lost sales. We think of those as postponed sales. But then, of course, you always have orders coming in and going out. So it's a mix there always. But we don't see those as lost. We see them as to be delivered later. And one of these three cases is extremely concrete because that was our PCB supplier and supplying. And I talked about Kongsberg earlier. So that is... that this order is going to Kongsberg in Norway. And they are working on those right now because we have already got the better quality PCBs and they will be shipped now in Q2. So they are not lost, they are postponed. That's the way to see it.

All right, very good. So secondly, there was some mixed messaging in the report, I would say. On the one hand, you maintain your guidance, keep your cautiously positive view on the market. But on the other hand, you also say that the US tariffs are bad for the global economy and that you're therefore not as optimistic on market growth in H2 as before. Also, orders have been very strong for the past two quarters, I would say, but you still choose to now implement additional cost savings programs. How should we sort of reconcile these positive and negative statements?

Yeah, it's a complicated world. And I think with the macro things happening, especially what is happening in the US now with this possible trade war coming up, or already trade tariffs, which is significant, and they will affect, for sure, they will affect the growth in the world. Then how much and how this will impact. We don't know that, but of course, everything becomes more secure. But when we talk to our customer and try to understand where they are, how will they be affected of these US tariffs, for example, then we don't get any clear good answers. So then, yeah. What to do? We stay with our best guess that we already had, but we try to signal in the report that the level of unsecurity has increased dramatically. But we don't have any concrete examples of customer sort of canceling orders or delaying orders or pushing out from the rest of the year. So we understand that and security level is much higher but we don't have any better gifts than we have already presented and so we maintain our 2.2 as our sales target yes and when it comes to the cost cutting we of course if we Half of that ish is already decided and earlier cost-cutting programs that doesn't have come through in the way we want to see them. And the new cost-cutting program, you can see it as pre-caution. But of course, if really the shit hits the fan and it becomes a disaster, those cost-cutting programs that we have put into place now or starting to work with, they will not be enough. Then we have to... could be a totally different level. But we are not there now. We are basically optimistic also in our company. And our customers are optimistic. And we talked about the defense there earlier. When we talk to Kongsberg, they are extremely optimistic. The amount of orders these people are getting is enormous.

All right, so same base case, but more uncertainty. It's a very mixed picture, if I put it like that. A extremely mixed picture. All right, very good. Now, the transfer of your Tunisia factory from Venedo to Venetian was completed on May 5th, and you wrote and mentioned in the presentation now that you have signed your first external customer. What kind of demand have you seen from potential new external customers for production in Tunisia?

We foresee with the cost level that we have in Tunisia, blue color operator, two euro per hour, that is a cost level about China or even lower, perhaps Vietnamese cost level, that we can target perhaps not new customer or different type of customer, but type of products that is running in higher volumes, that has a higher cost pressure on them. That normally would have been around East in Europe or even in Asia. That type of production could be, we could do that type of products competitively in out-of-Jewish. So not necessarily other customers but 5D products that is running in longer and higher series that is what we are talking and that is a type of production and a type of offering all our BK competitors have but we haven't had until now all right and can you say anything about what kind of pipeline of potential customers you have We haven't quantified it, so maybe it would be reckless of me to quantify it here, but we have a decent pipeline of requests. We have a decent RFQ pipeline and even a small order. It's small in money, but normally we start with prototypes and small wins and then you get the first tryout series and then you build from there. It would be substantial, I think, within a couple of years. Substantial portion of the initial EMS will come out of Tunis. And what we really don't want to see either, that is that we move production, that we move already existing production. That would be a disaster. So we want really target for type of products where we are not competitive with the Scandinavian production or even the Estonian production.

All right. And going back to demand on the group level, your order book is now 23% higher than it was a year ago, yet you seem a bit cautious on volume growth for the year. Why is this given the strong increase in the order book? How should we think about that?

Yeah, we have had good bookings. We had really good bookings in Q4 and the good booking also continued now in Q1. But a portion of this order book is, of course, later than 25. It goes into 26 also. And then... The history teaches that when times are good, order books come closer to you. When times are more slow, speed in economy is lower, the existing order books tend to stretch in time. Because when we say order book, that is frame orders. And they have, of course, a schedule, absolutely. But that schedule will be sort of longer if the customer wouldn't need those products. We don't have a history of stuffing products into the throat of our customer because it says that. We could perhaps do it by contract, but it would not be wise to do that because first, they don't like it and they become upset. Secondly, if we do that, that sales will be missing a little bit later. It would be a little bit about this similarity of peeing in your pants. It will feel better now, but it will be cold later. So we normally don't do that. So that is where we are. That's where we have the situation.

All right. So the 2025 profitability target for Eneado is 2%, but in Q1, the beta margin was only minus 2.75. Given that you have previously stated that you've already caught costs very significantly in Eneado, how would you say is the 2% target for the full year still feasible following the Q1 results?

Yeah, it will be challenging, but we have come down, as I said, but they are very intensified in a way now. And we have splitted it there in our presentation. Still, it should be seen as the total target is 6% EBITDA. And then we have sort of just split it up from historical backgrounds. It's not hard targets externally in that sense, but it will be challenging, yes, but absolutely doable because cost will come down even further.

All right, very good. Finally, from me, maybe you sounded quite positive on the potential for an acquisition this year. How do you view the ability of your current balance sheet to support a new acquisition, given your current debt level and covenants?

Yeah, we have net debt over EBITDA at 2.6. So there are some room to make acquisitions. We also, when we debate with some of our target companies, we also discuss with those whether they can take shares as part of the payment. So we absolutely think there should be room for at least one acquisition. And that would be our sweet spot is really 100 to 300 million in turnover. And that type of company we should absolutely be able to acquire within our borrowing capacity. All right.

I think that's all the questions I had. I don't see any questions in the chat at the moment. Do you have any in the room, maybe?

Anyone?

Hope you... I noticed that that's how you have it in our reserve chambers, so we're trying to expand our workchamp. And you can do so with the seed books. So how do we do this first?

we of course measure this carefully and we could be better and we split it in stock receivables and tables and when it comes to stock we are on stock level over turnover, analyzed, and then I take the last quarter's invoice. We are on 25. Now they're on 24. Cheater is on 24. So we are, I would say we are not good, but we are in par with the market. When it comes to the receivables, the only one there that is clearly better than the market, that is Hansa, because they are selling a lot of their receivables. I should have mentioned that earlier, but during the year we made a RFQ or we sourced bad services. So we negotiated with a number of banks how to finance this company. So we decided to get out of selling invoices, which have actually increased our receivables quite a bit. But we get a lot less administration. It becomes more cost efficient. So that means that the receivables are also about in part the rest of our paper. What is where it comes out clearly different is with papers. And some of those that do this really the best, they have extremely low paper terms. When we are on like 12%, payables over invoicing they are at the DAAL so that's when we have the big difference in peer group comparison between our net working capital leverage and then We are very low in investment, so we are very capitalized when it comes to investment machines. So we are not a paper mill or a steel mill, but we finance our customers' inventory, meaning that we buy on their behalf, their components, put them on our balance sheet, keep them in our stock. But they are also, we have back-to-back contract here. So that stock is really the customer's stock. So if they don't need it, we will sell it back to them. And that normally works well, but there are also accidents, of course. Yes.

No.

Now, we call it obsolete and excess. And since there is a well-established program for this, this is part of our business. When we have obsolete or excess, we sell it back. And we have a continuous ongoing process. So we measure in every factory. We... See what has not moved the last nine months. They become on the seller list. And then after 12 months, we take it out. So we control this, even though for our size of the company, of course, we have a lot of inventory. But we have a continuous process actually keeping it fresh, keeping it young.

Thank you.

But I have to be out of the situation that there is an outbid in the markets. But what his sort of plans to you know, that it is more rural areas, a country where it just folks up with the cells. For other areas where there is very little resistance to the current society for global farming, it's insoluble because it's a very slow-moving industry because it's

This is one of the things that we discussed the most on company level, business area level and also a group level with the board and also management. There are, in the industry, there is quite a threshold to move existing production. You don't move that. If you have well-functioning, price-competent production, you don't move it just because you get a little bit depressed or just because you are a little bit angry. You have to be extremely angry if you move existing production. So your window opens when our customer or our not customers have a new product, when they have new products coming into the market. And there is a window and that we have to be there. What we have done now differently the last two, three years compared to earlier, that is actually we actually invest in dedicated people only doing this, calling these people, visiting these people, making sure that we are on their list as a potential supplier. So we do that. And you see the result of that. We see new RFQs coming in from the like customer. And when it comes to fast moving defense, for example, we have been working We have been working on Saab the last 18 years, but now we have some Saab business. We have some Saab business in Stockholm. We have some Saab business in Munkfors. And of course, now it's about to increase it. When it comes to defense, we also have... few breakthrough orders with the Kongsberg Defense and Aerospace. So we have a test order in Axel. We also have some small business and we have an interesting RFQs in Lökken. And if we can break the ISV there, that would make a big difference. Yes. So it's not that we don't try and it's not that we don't work systematically, but the time lag between starting a call until you have substantial business years, unfortunately years.

Any other questions? Can we end this? Thank you all that have participated here in Karlstad and Oslo Underwear.

Thank you very much. Take care.