Investor AB (publ)

Results call for the second quarter and the first half of 2025. I'm joined here in the studio by our CFO, Jenny Aschman-Hakvinius, and our CEO, Christian Sederholm. Both will soon give their presentations. Today, we are also fortunate to have the CEO of Möllnlykke, Slatko Richter, with us, and he will provide some more in-depth comments on that company. Following his presentation, we will be opening up for questions, both via our operator and online. And with that, over to you, Christian.

Thank you, Jacob. And hello, everyone. So, Q2 results were healthy in a turbulent environment. Our adjusted net asset value grew 3% in line with the 6RX return index. Our TSR, however, was minus 5%, reflecting a wider discount. In times like these, we stay close to and support our companies as many are focusing a lot on cost efficiency and agility. We have continued to see significant investment activity across the portfolio, reflecting attractive opportunities in all three business areas. Our financial position remains strong. At the end of the quarter, our net asset value stood at 961 billion Swedish. Let me briefly go through the three business areas, starting with listed companies that represents about 70% of our portfolio. Listed companies generated a total return of 6% ahead of the 6RX return index that gained 3%. Saab was the main driver of our outperformance. During the quarter, we invested 1.2 billion in Ericsson. We continue to see Ericsson as well positioned to deliver profits and cash flow and to find new growth avenues over time. We've entered a contract to divest 5 million shares in SEB in order to avoid potential regulatory implications from our ownership increasing as SEB buys back and cancels shares. We remain positive to SEB's long-term potential and we're comfortable at an ownership at or around the current level. The portfolio companies continue investments to future-proof their long-term competitiveness, and ABB Robotics' new product families from China is one good example of this. Now over to Patricia Industries. Total return for Patricia Industries was minus 6 percent, including cash, with significant headwind from MultiPulse and FX. Our major subsidiaries grew sales organically by 5%, driven by Advanced Instruments, Laboree, Sarnova and Mönlycke. And as in previous quarters, innovative products continue to drive significant growth in several companies. Adjusted EBITDA declined by 1%, impacted by low profitability in Mönlycke, where margins were lower, again with significant headwind from the weaker dollar. Mönlycke and Permobil both distributed capital to Patricia Industries during the quarter. Mönlycke, 200 million euros, and Permobil, 1.5 billion Swedish. This is a testament to the strong cash regeneration in the Patricia Industries portfolio companies. Chuck Witkowski was appointed new CEO of Permobil, effective as of July 1st, and really happy to have found a strong internal successor to Bengt, who's done an outstanding job developing Permobil during his tenure. After the quarter, on July 10th, Advanced Instruments closed the acquisition of Nova Biomedical. Patricia Industries contributed 1.6 billion US dollars to finance this transaction. And as you know, we're really excited about this combination. Together, the two companies create an innovative, diversified and global life science tools platform with attractive long-term prospects based on, for example, a strong product portfolio across the biopharma and clinical markets, global presence with direct sales in key geographies and with low overlapping call points, and a scale and really strong R&D capability boding well for continued innovation. As you can tell from the pie charts here, the combined company will have roughly two-thirds of sales from clinical and one-third from biopharma, with the latter growing faster over time. About 60% of sales come from the US and with strong presence also in Europe and in APAC. And about 70% of sales come from consumables, which of course improves the stability of the business. For the major subsidies and our 40% in 3 Scandinavia, in aggregate, reported last 12-month sales was 67 billion Swedish and EBITDA was 16.7 billion. Now, please note that this is all in Swedish kronor, so of course sensitive to foreign exchange rates. Investments in EQT is our third business area and make up about 10% of the portfolio. Here, we had a fairly busy quarter. In Q2, total return from investments in EQT was 4%, driven primarily by depreciating share price in EQT-AB. During the quarter, we acquired shares in EQT-AB for a total of about 800 million Swedish, increasing our ownership by 0.4 percentage points. We think EQT has a proven business model that has consistently generated attractive returns to its fund investors. And this, of course, supports its ability to raise funds even in this tougher environment. We also co-invested alongside EQT 10 in Fort Knox. Fort Knox offers vital software-based infrastructure supporting Swedish small and medium-sized companies and has an impressive track record of profitable growth. This will be a passive minority investment, and we view this as an extension of our fund investment in EQT 10. From time to time, we will selectively look at co-investment opportunities as a complement to our fund investments. During the quarter, we invested 2.6 billion in this Fort Knox acquisition and expect to invest another 1.9 billion once EQT's bid is finalized. Finally, we committed capital to the new EQT Infrastructure Transition Fund, a new member of the infrastructure funds family, backed by a team with a really strong and long track record. So, to summarize, we have a strong platform and clear strategic direction. To continue to deliver, we focus relentlessly on performance, portfolio, and people. When it comes to performance, profitable growth, of course, is the main driver over time for our companies, and our companies continue to invest in future-proofing. At the same time, as mentioned, several companies are currently sharpening their focus on cost efficiency. Portfolio, we continue to see and execute on investment opportunities across our businesses, and we maintain a strong financial position. As for people, then, we're committed to broadening our network and to always strive to have the right person in the right place. With that, thank you, and over to you, Jenny.

Thank you, Christian. And good morning. So let me take you through the financials. So in Q2 2025, we had a net asset value, adjusted net asset value of 961 billion. And this implies an increase of 3% compared to Q1. For the quarter, performance was mixed across our business areas. Listed companies increased with 6% and investments in EQT increased with 4%. Patricia Industries, however, decreased with 6%. And this implies a total return of 3% for the quarter and 1% year-to-date. And now I will comment specifically on each of the business areas and I will start with listed companies. So within listed companies, share price performance was mixed. Saab was a strong contributor also this quarter, followed by Wärtsilä. We saw positive share price development in most of our companies. However, Atlas Copco, AstraZeneca and Electrolux had a tougher quarter looking at total return. Total return for listed companies portfolio was 6% compared to 6RX benchmark of 3%. And as for absolute contribution, Saab and ABB were the biggest contributors, while Electrolux, Atlas Copco and AstraZeneca naturally then from the previous slide contributed negatively during the quarter. And then moving on to Patricia Industries. In Patricia Industries, we saw a 6% decline in estimated market values, and that's compared to Q1. So from 214 billion to 202 billion. And this decline was almost in full explained by lower valuation multiples, but also to some extent negative currency impact. And as for the lower valuation multiples, they reflect average peer stock price development of the last quarter. The decline was, however, somewhat offside by underlying earnings growth and cash flow generation in the portfolio companies. And if we look at the value development across the companies, we can see that most of them were negatively impacted by lower valuation multiples and that some of them were also negatively impacted by currency. Worth noting here is the capital distribution from Mönlycke of Euro 200 million and from Permobil of 1.5 billion Swedish kronor. And then commenting on performance across the companies in Patricia Industries, again, it was mixed. And I will highlight a few themes, and I will comment specifically on Mönlycke on the next slide. So first to highlight the positives, we saw a strong organic growth in advanced instruments in Laboree, Sarnova and Mönlycke. And as for advanced instruments, we saw notably strong clinical instrument sales, and that's due to the launch of the Osmo Pro Max, but also strong growth within consumables. And we will report on the combined entity, Nova Biomedical, from Q3 as the first quarter. And for Q2, I can comment that the combined business grew in line with the historical average. For Laboree, we continue to see good runway with the Optilum products. In the short term, comps are getting continuously tougher as the Optilum urethral strictures is included in benchmark quarters. But longer term, there is a lot of potential in both urethral strictures and the more recently launched BPH product. PIAB and Permobil, they had a tougher quarter when it comes to sales growth, but profitability held up well. We continue to see tougher performance for BraunAbility and Atlas antibodies, and that's because market demand remains weak. And for Atlas antibodies, we are also seeing some increased competition from low-cost alternatives for some of the products. And then moving on to Mönlycke, and we will listen to Zlatko in a few minutes, so I will keep this on a high level. Before the quarter, Mönlycke had good sales growth, driven to a large extent by wound care, which grew 11% organically for the quarter. Profitability, however, was unsatisfactory, and that is in part explained by external factors, and that's primarily the negative effects from a weaker US dollar, but also to some extent tariffs, from which we started to see an impact later in the quarter. And these external factors impacted the margin with roughly three percentage points. And then on top of that, the slowdown in ORS also weighed on profitability. But as mentioned in the report, Manlycke is accelerating the work to find efficiency improvements. And worth noting, however, is that the actual timing of the positive impact from such improvements will vary. Moving on to investments in EQT. The total value change was 4% in the quarter, and that's primarily driven by EQT AB, which was up 6%. Fund investments were up 1%. And as a reminder, we report EQT fund investments with one quarter lag. So the 1% is based on EQT's Q1 report. For Q2 earlier this morning, EQT reported 1% positive development in key fund investments for H1, indicating a similar performance for Q2. But note that this is in euro and that the correlation to our equity fund investments is not one to one, but perhaps it gives some indication. On the right hand side, we illustrate the net cash flow from equity to investor, which was negative with 2.8 billion in the quarter. And that's because investments were larger than the sum of dividend and proceeds. Our 2.6 investment in Fort Knox and the 800 million acquisition of shares in EQT AB represent the majority part of investments for EQT in the quarter. And this is an illustration of net cash flow from our investments in EQT over time. While it's quite lumpy on a quarterly basis, over the past 10 years, we've received a net cash inflow of 2.3 billion on average per year. Our balance sheet remains strong, and this is always a priority, but perhaps even more so in these turbulent times. Leverage was 1% in the quarter and gross cash was 40 billion. If we include the closing of Nova Biomedical that took place in the first half of July, leverage is estimated to just shy of 3% and gross cash to roughly 24 billion. And this is, of course, all else equal as per the last of June. And as for leverage, and as you know, this is a comfortable level at the very low end of our policy range. And then on to my last slide. So over the 5, 10 and 20 years, the investor ABB show has outperformed both 6RX index and our internal return requirement, which we've highlighted in orange. And this underscores the strength and the resilience of our portfolio and our strategy. The past year has presented headwinds, but the long-term track record demonstrates the ability to navigate through cycles and generate sustainable returns for shareholders over time. And with that, I will leave the word to Slatko to provide some more color on Mönlycke.

Thank you so much, Jenny. And my name is Latke Richter. I'm a CEO at Mønlykke. And I will kind of cover my presentation in kind of four blocks, a little bit around the background. We'll talk a little bit about the key trends in healthcare, and then we'll cover our strategy going forward. And of course, comments on first half and Q2 from my side. So please, next slide. Just a little bit of background for you that are not fully updated. We just passed 2 billion euro sales last year for the first time, close to 29% EBITDA margin. We are close to 9,000 employees worldwide, and we are divided into four business areas since a few years back, of which wound care by far is the largest one, representing close to 60% of our sales. ORS being 25%, a little bit more than that, and then gloves and antiseptics smaller, but they're very important in certain markets, so they're not kind of fully global, so to speak. So that is a little bit about the background. So if we don't take the next slide. So just kind of our reason for being, and I think this is an important slide because if we really want to be future proof and long-term successful, this is kind of when we did a large study a few years ago, based on ethnographic research, we came out with this. This is kind of the number one pain points that our customers have in the four different business areas. We know today that if you're a patient with a hard to heal wound, And that is around two to 3% of any given population. We know that seven out of 10 patients don't get the right diagnosis today because they meet the generalist instead of an expert and thereby get the wrong treatment scheme. And in many cases, the wound heals too slow or not at all. So this is of course, one of the areas we would like to address. We also know that a typical operating room have 1200 hours of standstill per year, basically lacking of components for people, which kind of delays surgeries, for example. And converting that into cost, that means around 2.5 million euro of unnecessary cost per operating room. And you can multiply that maybe by 20, 50, 100, dependent on the size of the hospital. So it's a lot of money. That should normally be the taxpayer's money at the end of day in most markets. When it comes to surgeons, I mean, they spend a lot of time in surgery, of course, and many times they can perform surgery for 12 hour shifts and of course, The hand hygiene is very important. Historically, we've been very much focusing on the safety, so to avoid contamination of surgeons' hands and nurses, for that matter, that are in the operating room. But also, I mean, one key feedback that came back is tactility. So you have to kind of integrate two technologies in one, make sure they're both safe and tactile. And we also know in antiseptics that four out of ten nurses that enter an operating room have not fully followed the disinfection protocol. We can argue a long time what is so, but that's kind of the fact. And of course, our challenge is a little bit to make sure that we change that. And I think I'm showing this slide is that this is kind of the big part of our focus to make sure that we kind of contribute to the global health care, but also make sure that we, if we solve these problems, are seen as a leading player in the respective business areas that we act within. So next slide, please. So then let's move a little bit into the background. I mean, the last few years, I think Mundica has performed well. We operate in a market which grows somewhere four and a half to 5% per year. We managed to accelerate growth. The last three years, it's been around 8% from a historical level of 3%. And I think also from a profitability wise, we've improved year by year and also strengthened our position. Thereby, we have increased market share in all of our business areas. And I think, as you can see here on the slide, we'll not go through it in details. We have a solid and improved financial performance. And this is a little bit how we build our plan. Then you all know, we'll come back to that, of course, that a lot has changed since the end of last year. The first six months this year has been exceptional in many ways. And I'll come back to that also. So next slide, please. And next. Yeah, so basically, I mean, what are kind of the macro trends that we deal with and that we need to address? And I'll take that from very much a healthcare perspective. We see a tremendous pressure on healthcare systems since COVID. We see that people and staff, healthcare professionals are leaving. And today, globally, we have around 10 million vacancies. That is basically jobs that are not being done. And that leads to higher costs because you need to have Temporary staff, lower wage staff, not qualified staff, and on top of that also, you see longer queues for surgeries, etc. And that's been kind of a status the last few years. The other part, and we all follow the geopolitical situation day by day here, but we also have to understand that this has been a trend for the last 10 years. From a trade barrier perspective, I think I've not seen that much going our way, so to speak, the last 10 years. Every kind of decision is a little bit more and more challenging. And we operate in the healthcare world, world of healthcare. We know that the healthcare systems are different in every market and also quite protected in many markets because You have to be localized in one or another way to be truly competitive in many markets today. And this is, of course, increasing, has been increasing a lot also the last six months. But it's a long-term trend that's been there for a long time, and we have addressed that in many ways. And, of course, we'll continue to do that. There is an increased focus on sustainable healthcare that are two parameters. One is, of course, the whole kind of environmental part with CO2 emissions. If healthcare would be a country, we usually say it would be the fifth most polluting, from a CO2 perspective, country in the world. So this is one of the big sources for the whole CO2 challenge. We also have the other part of sustainable healthcare, which is more related to employees' wellness, basically. As I said, a lot of Staff is leaving. We see that nursing schools are not filled anymore with students. So it's not the most attractive part to be within. And this is a big challenge now for hospitals and healthcare providers to make sure that they keep staff and motivate staff and make sure that they want to be in that area and don't choose other type of jobs. So then, of course, the question is with all these challenges, how do we sort that out? And I think there are like three major things that will happen. We will see new operating models. We'll see new business models in healthcare. maybe ending on kind of a value-based healthcare at the end of the day, where today you get kind of paid per product you sell instead of the outcome. And on top of that, I think, which is a very strong driver coming up is, and here we are a little bit late in our industry versus many others, we see a digital transformation emerging where you need to digitalize and make many things more efficient so that fewer people can provide more care at the end of the day and better care. So that is kind of what we deal with on that. And if I give one example, if we take the next slide, which is very concrete, if you look at where in what type of settings healthcare is provided today, and this is US numbers, but they look similar in many other markets. Historically, most patients went to an acute care facility, hospital, or elderly home care, long-term care, skilled nurse facilities, or hospice, which is dependent on if you're on the elderly side, so to speak. And we see that these structures that are quite expensive and resource demanding from healthcare professionals are decreasing or growing very slow. So where do you find patients in the future? Of course, from acute care, we'll see transfer towards ambulatory surgery care, hospital outpatient care, where you come in in the morning and go home in the evening, basically, so you don't even sleep over. We'll see knee factories, hip factories, shoulder factories, if I may call it like that, where surgeries are performed. Very specialised. more care in the physician clinic. And then we have the whole e-visits part that we're basically get your treatment or healthcare over screen, which is still not fully defined. It's a lot of movements there, but I wouldn't say it's like, this is how it looked like. So I think we should expect development in that area. But all in all, you can see that that's where the patient's growth is. While in acute care and elderly home, where we see patients being pushed towards home care. So you're treated in home instead of any kind of facility, also kind of a cost-saving type of setup. So that's where the growth is. And of course, if we long-term as company want to be strong, we need to be participating where the growth is. And I think today we are starting that migration, but we have a strong legacy in acute care, for example, from a medical perspective. Next slide, please. And next. So strategic direction. I think what we've gone through the last few years, the last four or five years, is that we introduced the business area structure three, four years ago. We focused on much of that and we managed, as you saw, accelerate growth and also profitability to a certain degree. We also did a certain graphic-based strategy where we basically tried to figure out what is the number one, two, three pain points that our customer have and really tried to address those, both outcome-wise, but also in their kind of workflows and how they operate. And now moving forward, the coming years, we will talk about three pillars or blocks. One is defend and grow core business. One is conquer new markets and segments, and then also protecting profitability in the light of the new challenges and development we see. So if you take the next, please. And also kind of the base, what are the base we're going with? I mean, we are present today in acute care, which is, as I said, maybe most where we have our strongest holding, but we have also lately during the last year, start to look into post-acute care, primarily on the wound care side, and then also the ambulatory surgery care on the more surgical parts, gloves, auras and antiseptics. And we also know that the whole kind of digital virtual care is emerging, not fully yet defined. And of course, we also have our bets and initial thoughts around how that could be addressed. We have our legacy products that's been around for a long time, very strong brands, the silicone-based solution, which kind of was invented, the whole advanced wound care segment by Mönlöke, Safetec or Mepilex, which is the product brand. Safetec is the silicone-based solution in that. We have our procedure packs, where we really try to move from single to procedure packs to make our operating room efficiency increasing. We have our Biogel brand in gloves, and we have our Hibibrand in antiseptics. And we also have a strategic portfolio that is growing really nice. I think this is, you know, where we see the strong performance in wound care. We've been very strong in incision care, which is kind of post-operational solutions to help manage the wounds. Where we have Avanzolo, which is our negative wound therapy. We have post-op solutions, for example, MedPlex border post-op and also granulodacin around wound irrigations. We have a very strong and fast-growing portfolio there as an example. Also in the operating room solutions, we provide more and more advanced procedure packs where the MIS portfolio is a key component. So this is something, of course, we need to have with us into the next five years and really drive. And then we have the geographic part. And here you can see how our sales is distributed the last few years. EU, UK still being very strong, more than half of our sales. US being very, very important and been growing very fast and is today representing a third. And now finally, also, we see good movements in some of the Asia Pacific markets. We have a very strong performance the last few years in MIA, which is today representing 5% of our sales, and also Latin America is coming up on the radar. But of course, if you look at where the world is going and where the people live and how healthcare is developing, of course, APAC 12% is nothing we're satisfied with over time. So this is how it looks today. We're going into the next phase in our journey, so to speak. If we then take the next slide. So we have kind of recently defined our kind of coming strategy and we have divided that into three blocks and I'll try to go through them a little bit more in detail. So the first one is kind of defend and grow. So with this activities that we have there, we still believe that we can gain some market share, but maybe not as much as we would like. That's all about defending and make sure that we continue to support our legacy brands where we have been very successful, but maybe they're not seen as the most innovative anymore, but present a very strong brand value. We will drive the strategic portfolio, which is kind of our recently launched products that represent a big share, I would say, of the total sales. And on top of that, are growing high double digit or double digit in most cases, if not all. And we also have the third block, part of the first block, which is around where we are very strong. We talk about therapies. We talk about wound care prevention. We talked about incision care. converting a very conventional market, conventional wound dressing markets, maybe 3-4% today's advanced wound dressings in the operating room post-surgery to cover the wounds, so to speak. Big opportunity that we're driving. We talk about EB and we also talk about scar management, which is a big, big thing in summation markets like China. So that is kind of where we believe that we can gain some market share. And then we have kind of defined a portfolio where we talk about incremental sales, basically stuff we're not doing today, where we would like to grow and find incremental sales. And you could say that also divided into three parts. Again, as I talked about before, enter the non-acute segments, post-acute in wound care and ambulatory surgery care in the more surgical parts, and really try to understand how we can be successful there. And that is, you know, a different world to a certain degree. It's different dynamics. We will continue to invest in key jokes. And then the three markets that we have defined is Saudi, China and India. And I think Saudi is kind of now. We've been successful the last few years and continue to do that. China has come up as a very strong growth driver for us the last years and will continue to do that. And maybe India is then more like latter part of the strategic plan where we have to build up momentum. But we also know that India is soon to be the third largest market from a GDP perspective and growing very fast. And then, of course, we have some post-acute bets also. And then to commercialize both radical innovation that we have in the pipeline in the different BAs, but also as for those of you that have followed, we made some M&A bets also lately. MediWound, which is the company that offers enzymatic debridement that we believe in, and also Siren Socks, which is the DFU monitoring, diabetes foot ulcer monitoring or prevention. So that is also areas that we'd like to kind of... commercialize the coming years. And then, of course, if you combine one and two, we still believe that we should be able to clearly gain market share like we've done. And then we have the kind of the third block pillar that we just launched now, which we call impact 30 plus, which basically means that we would like to, to a large degree as possible, continue the growth in one and two, and then catch up on the gap that's opened up when it comes to EBITDA this year versus the last few years. And of course I'll come back a little bit on the why, but it's a long-term data driven transformation approach. So we've done, of course, some shorter measurement measures as well to really maintain OPEX and cost, but we also now defined kind of next steps that we'd like to look into. And I think what we do now is that we basically, from a data driven perspective, try to find what is best practice. We kind of defined six areas that we did deep dive into, and that will go through the coming years. One is to make sure that we have a solid market profitability in all markets for all BAs. We talk about streamlining the R&D and innovation portfolio to make sure that we really focus on those projects that deliver against the strategy. We talk about operational efficiency, so we'll go through our factories to make sure that we have strong coax programs there and deliver on those. We talk about organizational efficiency, span of control layers to make sure that we have a modern and up-to-date organization. We have the other projects, IT and non-R&D related, that we also will go through and really streamline, make sure that we run them tight. And then we have kind of the final area, if we call it like more of a business hygiene. We talk about travel, we talk about external services, and also be very mindful in spending to make sure that we now, in the coming five years, become, at the end of the day, a super efficient company. So that is the three pillars that we will operate within, and we'll quantify them as much as possible down the road internally, of course. If we then take the next slide. So let's look a little bit in the business highlights and what we've done. So first half this year, I mean, as you have noticed, we announced that a few weeks ago, we did the largest ever investment of €115 million to expand our manufacturing capacity in Brunswick. As you see, our wound care business is growing strong organically and has done so for a long time. And we have to make sure that we have the capacity needed. Now this landed in US and of course that's been planned for a long time, but this has been part of our long-term, make sure that we have a good geographical balance and a footprint when it comes to capacity. And we will of course be operational here with this factory in 2027. So it takes some time to build it, of course. We secured 400 million US in financing with a Swedish export credit, cooperated with them to support our global expansion strategy. We also distributed, as Jenny and Christian mentioned before, 200 million euros to Patricia this spring. And we announced, as I mentioned before, an investment into this diabetic foot ulcer monitor company called Siren, which will help out to make sure that we have fewer DFUs down the road. We also, which is a prior investment, that we have a joint venture in Saudi, in Jeddah. We opened up our procedure pack manufacturing plant early this year, and it's now being ramped up to make sure that we... satisfy the need in that region and market. And also we reached 100% renewable electricity, our target there during the first half as part of the SBTI initiative that we are committed to. Next slide, please. And then let's a little bit look at the specifics of Q2. Again, 7% organic growth in constant currency, mainly driven in Bundker, where we had 11% growth, as you'll see. And if I have to pick a few markets that had a strong performance in Q2, it was China, Middle East, especially Saudi, Latin America, and U.S., We see glass and antiseptics in the mid single digit growth arena and also stable, I would say. And then ORS had a weak quarter with a 2% negative growth. And primarily that challenge is in EMEA where the comparables were tough. But I think this is the area where we need to focus now and make sure that we could get back on track from a growth perspective. If we don't take the next. Uh, and then looking at the profitability part, a bit of development, uh, and, and of course, uh, wound care growing and being the most profitable business area we have helps out from a mixed impact. Uh, uh, we had a negative impact from FX in the quarter around 15 million Euro, uh, Euro, uh, which is a strengthened dollar, sorry, weakened dollar, but also strengthened Swedish Krona, where we have a lot of our operations. Of course, some negative effects in auras and glass when you don't have the full volumes, that hits us a little bit. We've held back on OPEX, so very moderate increase that, and we started mitigation activities already in Q2, but of course, they will now accelerate in Q3 and Q4, and also going forward into next year. And then, of course, now we see kind of the evolving landscape when it comes to U.S. tariffs. Somewhere around 5-ish million euro hit in Q2, so it's like 20-ish total with tariffs and FX. And of course, this is a little bit up in the air, you know, as you all know, because we have not yet been hit fully by the end outcomes. We don't know that. And we are a little bit dependent on Malaysia and EU, of course, where we have production and imports to US. All this being said, half of our sales in US are localized already. So it's not so that we only have imports. So it's big, big share. Half of it is already localized, so to speak, since before. We have two factories of our own in wound care, and we also have a contract manufacturing antiseptics based in US. So we'll see what happens there. But of course, here we have to do a lot of scenario planning and, of course, a lot of mitigation actions and looking into what flows we have, et cetera. But this is something that is affecting us quite big time right now and a lot of focus on that. Next slide, please. So to summarize, and this is my final slide, I think we are well positioned to continue to capture sustainable profitable growth. I think we've shown that the last few years. And we have also outperformed competition also in Q1 where we had lower sales. We have some comparables where we see that our competitors, especially in wound care, had lower growth than we had. We have a robust operating model with the BAs. We have well-integrated strategic priorities. We'll continue to execute on those. We are and have to continue to navigate geopolitics. I mean, being in the world of healthcare, we know there is maybe more geopolitics here than some other areas, since each healthcare system is specific for that country and also protected in some cases. And being local, whether it's manufacturing or something else, is important in many markets to be a credible player and be able to participate, so to speak, in the business for real and not just as very much of a niche player. We landed our new strategy, which is also encompassing, as you saw, a focus on efficiency and make sure that we protect our profitability. And, of course... But still two out of three pillars or blocks in the strategy is to grow and gain market share in different ways. So by that, thank you so much. And I hand back to Jacob.

Thank you very much, Slatko. Thanks also to Jenny and Christian for your presentations. It's now time to take your questions. And we will start with the questions through our operator, Heidi, please.

Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, you will need to press star 1 1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 1 1 again. If you wish to ask a question via the webcast, please type it in the box and click submit. We will take our first question. The question comes from the line of Linus Sigurdsson from DNB Carnegie. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Okay, great. Thank you very much. So you mentioned an assumption of remaining tariff impact in some areas with softer demand here in the report. Could you just give us some colour on where you're currently seeing these effects most clearly? Thank you.

I think, I suppose that was to me. Well, it was for a Christian actually. Sorry.

You can start Slavsko if you like.

Yeah, I can start. I mean, and tariffs is, you know, we followed up very thoroughly. I mean, April 2nd, the tariffs were announced. We have a global supply chain. So it's not only so that you really have to, I mean, we spend a lot of time to make an analysis basically to understand all the flows. It's not only final manufacturing that is affected, also where you have your supplier base, et cetera, and many products components are floating in and out of countries during their value chain, so to speak, to end up as a finished product. But, I mean, we are very dependent at the end of the day where Malaysia will land and where EU will land. Because that's the two main, I would say, main sources into U.S., Malaysia, where we have our glove production, and EU to a large degree, where we complement our US manufacturing from EU in wound care. And again, I mean, we're following this day by day. I mean, it's been 10%, it's been 30% from EU, it's been 20% from EU, Malaysia has been 24%, now right now it's 25%. And I think that is kind of what we try to figure out, you know, and of course, mitigation plans there is to look at flows, can you change those? Also, can you do some structural things, technical things also? And, of course, at the end of the day, moving into next year, we'll start to discuss prices with customers. But we need to know the base and have a solid starting point. So that is a little bit where we see. The other question was around softening of top line. I think in wound care, we have a very strong performance all over. Maybe lately it's been a little bit weaker in some European markets as Operating room solutions has experienced a little bit more challenges in the Middle East this year, but also this is due to a strong legacy, a little bit in Europe also, while gloves and antiseptics has been more stable. So it's, you know, I don't see a super clear trend on demand. More than in general, it's a little bit, at least Q1 was a little bit lower than the last year for us and everybody else that we compete with. Q2 a little bit better. 7% growth is kind of not that far away from where we would like to be.

Slatko, did you want to offer some context as well?

Maybe just to add from an overall portfolio perspective, what we see, I mean, if you look at the direct effects, first of all, just as Slatko mentioned, we're starting to see some direct effects, especially in the latter part of Q2. So basically the tariffs hitting the P&L, if you want. But we would say that still, the indirect effects of the tariffs are probably the more dominant. And what that does is, of course, it adds to the general uncertainty. And so clearly, we think it has a... is a softening impact on demand in a number of sub-sectors. I mean, we see weak end demand in, for example, construction, consumer, automotive, semiconductors, etc.

Okay, I appreciate both those comments. And then a second question on Mønlykke, if you could just give some color on these accelerated efforts to find efficiency improvements. I mean, I understand that the timing will vary, but anything you can say sort of about near-term order of magnitude and where in the business, et cetera, is super helpful.

I think it's hard to give you exact numbers, but I mean, what we do strive and aim for is, you know, to kind of close the gap that we're hit by when it comes to FX and and tariffs basically to go back to call it historically EBITDA levels or historically that we have the last few years. And now we have a few percentage points gap. Of course, it's again dependent on how the Swedish Krona US dollar will continue to develop what will happen with the tariffs. So I see a little bit like two buckets. You have like the bucket, you know, where we have tariffs and you have tariffs, you have, sorry, FX, you have to follow kind of the global development of the economy. We need to understand that. We need to, of course, do whatever we can there. But then we have the other part, which is, you know, make sure that we are efficient, make sure that we drive the company in an efficient way and mitigate as much as possible the coming years to kind of be back on kind of historical EBITDA levels. So that's kind of the goal. Let's see how much we can put together and still be, you know, a forward-leaning company that invests into the business and really try to drive market share at the same time. So, so but but they have to give some kind of you know objective target that is let's try to close the gap as much as possible and short term that is hard because a lot you know the effects happen basically in q2 and the same with the terrorists that we don't know so so that means also now going forward and we need to be you know very agile at the end of the day but but that's kind of what we try to do and and those is the the effects we would like to get out of that but also to be a very efficient company going forward it's a little bit change switching gear you know we've been

little bit more driving an aggressive strategy now we have to kind of continue to do that selectively and then on top of that make sure that we manage our business in in a good way as good way as possible right thank you so much and then my my final question is on the wound care expansion in maine if you just say anything about sort of how this investment will be phased and you know should we expect like any material uh near-term one-offs or anything like that thank you

No, I think this is, again, expansion. We see that we reach our capacity limitations. Of course, we are very proactive here, so we try to be out in good time, so we never, ever come into challenges so that we cannot deliver. It's kind of a two-year project, so if you have to say facing maybe, let's say, big picture, one-fourth of the investment this year, half next year, and then the rest in 27, and then we should go live end of 27, which basically means that we have additional capacity by then, and of course, we will Since it is a U.S. factory, we'll make sure that we skew it or face it towards the U.S. portfolio and market need, of course. But we'll still have kind of a global footprint, so there will be other factories also supplying into U.S. But, of course, this is a big step for us. And as I said before, this has been – no, no, the timing is always the timing, but we planned for this for a long time, basically. So this was kind of when we saw that we were reaching capacity limitations. Now it's time to move, and then we took the decision, and now we invest.

Okay. Thanks, everybody. That's it for me.

Thank you. We will take our next question. The next question comes from the line of Derek Laliberto from ABG Sendor Collier. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Thank you very much. I'd like to start out with a couple of questions for Zlatko here. It'd be interesting to hear in your own words how you believe Manlyk distinguishes itself from competition, particularly in the wound care area. Thanks.

Yeah. No, and I think we have a long journey behind us, at least the last three, four years, where we have clearly gained market share. I mean, the advanced wound care market where we participate is growing somewhere around 5%. We've been growing twice that. And also in this last quarter, 11% growth. Now we don't know how our competitors perform, but there is hope that we also outgrew the market in Q2 with 11% growth. I think this is, you know, the core of our business. We kind of invented this area. We're very strong in this area. We continue to invest into this area. I think also we broadened our portfolio with negative pressure the last few years. We also have fibers, hydrogel fibers, which is another area that I didn't mention here today, but where we kind of go against aqua cells. So I think we have a good kind of competitive position. We're probably the company with the broadest portfolio in We participate in attractive segments. We invest into new markets. I think lately we mentioned Saudi. We can also mention China. We can mention continuous efforts into U.S. So here we have a global presence. I think we have good growth in more or less all markets. What we have to remember is that we sell on value. So to be successful in wound care, we are usually a much higher price than if you call it a conventional or a low quality dressing, or lower quality dressing or a valuable. So we need to sell on value. That means that we need to support our offerings much more than anybody else by, you know, clinical studies, health economics, training, education, supporting the customers, so that they get kind of return on economy also, even if they choose us, because we have a different model. For example, normally, you can use our dressing twice as long as any competitors or most competitors. that's a typical example of that. So we need to do our job. When we do our job, we are successful. And I think we've done that in a great way the last few years. And we plan to continue that. So we will kind of, you know, continue that journey. And I think where we have the biggest opportunities the coming years is, as I said before, in one of the biggest, there are many opportunities, but like in incision care, we're still today when you go, if you have a chronic wound, you can get advanced wound care dressing. But if you are Part of a surgery today, basically, the challenge is that you still get conventional old type of dressings or plasters even. And the challenge there, of course, is that if you really want to manage the wound well, I think we have a good offering there. Today, it's around 3-4% that get an advanced wound care dressing post-surgery and 96% still get 50-70% year eight old technology type of plasters based on glue. So we have a lot of opportunities, we need to just be focused on and continue, I think, do what we've done good, and add as we go. Figuring out the post acute care segment, which I mentioned also that that is, of course, something we need to, it's the same type of wounds, but the different business model in many countries.

Okay, great. And could you give some flavor perhaps on the margins in the different BAs? I mean, is there any sort of negative underlying pressure in wound care and also looking at the group adjusting for these conditions? FX and terrorist effects, it still looks like the underlying margin for the group is at close to the highest levels. I mean, we've seen in recent years that around 30% is the correct interpretation.

Yeah, I think all four BS has been hit, if I may call it similarly. Then, of course, when the terrorist kicks in, that might hit, you know, if Malaysia is high, of course, that will hit gloves and then and EU will hit wound care, and then maybe antiseptics will not get hit because they have local manufacturing in the US. So that we have to take into account. But otherwise, I think it's the same kind of distribution as before, but they're all a few percentage points lower than they were last year. So it's kind of hit everybody, kind of obvious, similar from a percentage point decrease. But then, of course, wound care is by far the most profitable area still. still not far away from 40-ish percent EBITDA as we have discussed before, but maybe one or two percent point lower the first this quarter versus last quarter, same year due to FX and tariffs partly.

All right, perfect. And then just quickly regarding this ramp up of warehouse or change for warehouse issues, you had recently in Q1 in the US, I mean, were these completely resolved and did it have any impact on the performance in Q2, sort of negative or positive with stuff being pushed ahead, I guess, if that was the case?

I think being a customer-centric company, to be honest, I mean, when you have supply issues, it's never good. You always get, you know, some kind of damage on your reputation. I really hate that because it's extremely important that we satisfies customer needs. But in this case, yes, we mitigated that in Q2. So we have no big issues now. And of course, we need to monitor that closely continuously so that we don't ever end up in that again. It was maybe not the biggest hit ever, but of course, when you end up in backorder type of situation, it's not good. So that's something we need to work hard to avoid also in the future. But now it's under control. And I think the damage was, we managed it well at the end of the day.

Great, great. Thank you, Slapgun. And then just a couple for investor AB. I was wondering, in general here, you purchased shares in Ericsson lately within the core list of assets. I mean, when you're making these decisions apart from the potential you see in sort of the intrinsic value, do you consider the concentration or weight in the portfolio of the asset as sort of meaningful criteria when making these sorts of decisions? Thanks.

Thank you for the question. I can take a first crack on that. I would say that we're driven by sort of on a company-by-company basis and the strength of the case we see. And at the moment, we don't see any, call it, concentration issues. So that in and by itself is not what guides our investments, I would say.

Got it. Okay. And finally, from my side, this might be minor, but in Parmobilites, Noticed, I think it was in Q1, you had a product recall of this smart drive speed control dial with some pretty severe damages. Can you give an update on this potentially and has it led to any litigation or similar? Thank you.

I can start. That's correct and unfortunate, of course. I think those quality issues have been well handled. It has weighted somewhat on the sales, of course, but well handled for now. Okay, good.

Thank you. That's all from me. Thank you.

Thank you. We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Jacob Heselvik from SEB. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Good morning. Also a question on Menlycke. So the leverage ratio increased to 3.3 times in the quarter on my calculations, which I assume is even before the investment in Maine. So at what leverage ratio do you see as optimal for Menlycke going forward?

Maybe I can ask Jenny to support me in that question.

Yes, sure. Well, Mönlycke has publicly listed bonds, euro bonds. And for those, we have committed to a leverage ratio that should not increase above 3.5 or up to 4 if we see that we have attractive add-on or investment opportunities. And that leverage policy remains firm also going forward.

Okay, so the investment in Maine, would that qualify under the 4.0 times?

Well, I would say that the investment in Maine would be within that leverage span.

It's important to remember also that now we're looking at a leverage ratio just after dividends, so normally you get a little bit of an up and down saw blade pattern.

And given Monlyke's strong cash flow generation, we see quite rapid leverage decrease also through the quarters.

Yeah, fair enough. If we continue on Patricia, we have now seen double-digit declines in valuation compared to Q4 in a majority of the companies. Could you provide the split between FX and the multiples? Where is the majority of the headwind coming from?

I can start. And for the quarter, as we mentioned throughout the presentation, the absolute majority of the decline for this quarter for Patricia is a contraction in valuation multiple. So that's the absolute majority for the quarter.

So given that organic sales growth is positive in the majority of the companies and we assume market remains flat until Q3, we should then see a material pickup in valuations already next quarter, I guess.

I think it's hard to say because it depends on so many factors. But of course, all else equal, maybe.

I would also add that if you look at the FX, I mean, what Jenny mentioned here is basically our NAV valuations, right, our estimated market values. But there is, of course, in the underlying earnings of the companies, there is also a big FX effect, as Slatko mentioned in Mönlycke, for example, but of course, Take a company like Permobil with two-thirds of its business in the US. There is a material impact from that as well. So you really have FX hitting on different lines if you want. So that's important to keep in mind, I think.

Yeah, no, that's an important point. Just a quick final question from my side. The co-investment in Fort Knox was new exciting information for me. Have you done any co-investment with EQT earlier with this the first one and could you also give some more color on this decision and how it will be reported going forward?

I can say as a background, I'm not aware of any co-investments of this type where we have a sort of passive minority co-investment. So that would be the first, at least in a very long time. And the decision process is basically, we see it as an extension of our engagement or investment in the respective funds, in this case, EQT 10. And as a big limited partner or investor in their funds, we're glad to get the opportunity to, from time to time, consider co-investment opportunities. And then we were and are really attracted by the business model and by the strong track record of Fort Knox in this case. And as for the reporting... Sorry?

the reporting it would basically be under eqt or investments in eqt okay thank you thank you we will take our next question your next question comes from the line of johann schulberg from kepler please go ahead your line is open

Thank you. And my question is to Slatko. And first of all, thank you very much for joining this call. And it's also a nice follow-up from the last time you were here. And I remember back then you were highlighting that you expected or you were looking for higher organic growth in Mönlöken. I mean, if you take sort of the underlying market dynamics and sort of forget about the tariffs earlier, just for a few seconds here. And do you see any change at all in the market dynamics that would sort of prevent you from continuing to grow at the same pace over the next few years compared with sort of the last years where you definitely have accelerated growth to the highest single-digit organic growth?

If I answer that question first, I think we, of course, I mean, we follow and there is always a little bit of a lag here. I mean, if you look at As I said, entering this year, the total market grew somewhere around 4.5% to 5%. So that was kind of then the number to beat. If you look at the Q1 reports from our competitors, the growth was lower than that. It was kind of a 3-ish maybe, 3-4. And then, of course, whatever will happen now in Q2, it's too early to say. I saw that, for example, Essity reported their health and medical this morning. They were around 2%, I think. We had 11 in Mooncare, which was actually our most transparency. But there is many, many companies that will report. So it's a little bit of a lag. It's a little bit hard to answer. But of course, you know, if the market grows for 5%, then if you have an ambition to grow twice that, that's close to 10, 8 to 10 maybe. If it's 3, 4%, then it's, of course, lower. And, of course, you cannot outgrow the market. You know, there is limits, of course. So we will adapt to reality here, of course, in our plans. But that also means that, you know, to grow X percent, you need to invest Y percent, you know. And that's where we're now trying to figure out what is the kind of the growth to make sure that we outgrow the market, but we do that in an efficient and sustainable way. And that is, of course, when things change very fast in analysis, we have to do. And we'll see. We'll see what that is. But we follow that. And of course, Super curious to see how competition will deliver their Q2 numbers, especially on the growth, because that will give a little bit of a direction.

Yeah, I was actually more sort of looking at over the next three to five years, maybe, and just trying to, because I know investors, they don't like to talk about sort of the forecast for this year. I'm more sort of looking at sort of the market, the underlying market and giving your introduction or speech and also sort of aging population. Yeah, I mean, is there anything sort of 45% you mentioned there? Is that sort of a base case scenario which you feel sort of comfortable with over the next three to five years and sort of not looking at the next few quarters or anything like that?

I understand that. And, you know, it's really, really hard to answer that question. I think historic has been four to five years quite stable. Will it be that in the future? Then that's a given. If something else, then we have to adapt to that. And there is more uncertainty right now than it's kind of, if I may say, and I've been in MedTech now for 28 years, so I have some experience. And I'm not sure it's been this uncertain ever before, to be honest.

And if you're sort of looking at these different business areas, do you see, or are you, because, I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, it's the womb care business sort of which sort of decides where to overload the high margins here. Is that... When we're talking about the 45%, are we talking about wound care business or are we talking about the whole?

I'm talking the whole. So if you take wound care, that is five plus, I would say. A little bit more than five. Five to five and a half. It's been at least the last few years. And the others are more like four and a half-ish type of. Okay.

And when you're talking about solar, do you feel more uncertain for wound care over the next few years? I mean, just talking about this 45% warning once again, or do you feel more comfortable with the wound care outlook?

I think one difference that emerged, and I was not allowed to talk to Harry, so I won't, but if I look at trade barriers, I think that is emerging. We see trade barriers being introduced in our business And recently, the EU is now talking about that all tenders above 5 million euro will be locked close for Chinese companies. Exactly how that will pay out, I don't know. And then, of course, China makes countermeasures on that. So we need to have a kind of take the geopolitical part, the geopolitical trend into account here, which basically means that we need to figure out how we are seen as a local player so that we can bid on the tenders we want to bid on. And that is a key action that we have to take if we want to kind of continue to grow down the road. That is different. You cannot, you need to be low. And that is usually manufacturing or something like that, parts manufacturing, a few steps manufacturing. And I think if we want to if you want to have my kind of five to 10 years view, we need to do much more of that to be relevant in some markets. And then I talk about the big markets, China, India, US, EU, Middle East, et cetera. So that is kind of the new game. And then it's a little bit up to us how we make sure that we're seen as a local player that can bid in a credible way on the key tenders, where you usually have the private and the public segment, and the public is usually protected, which is in most of these markets, you know, half of the market, like a minister of health, governmental tenders, et cetera. And that is what we'll decide if we can grow at the end of the day, if you ask me, over a five, 10-year period.

And if you compare your own sort of geographical manufacturing footprint and compare with your competitors, how are you compared with those?

I think we're in a good shape there because we kind of accepted the reality, not now, but the last 10 years or last five years, at least, since I joined. We've really focused on that. established manufacturing footprint in Saudi since then. We opened that factory this year. We are investing in China, maybe a little bit against what many other do, but still to be present there. We talk about India, where we also have plans. And then, of course, expansion in the US. We talk about EU, where we have a very strong foothold since before. So I think there we have done a lot. And we need to do more, but we've done a lot. And then, of course, it's always, you know, I would say, surely, if you ask me as a, what's been different now. I mean, in the past, in healthcare medtech, you produced a little bit where, you know, it was low cost. Now you produce where you sell. That's the new era, so to speak. And to be relevant, we need to do that. But I think we are in a fairly good position. But, you know, there's much more to do.

Sorry, just a final question on your monies, if that's okay. Thank you very much for the 20 million specification, 15 plus five here. Just going forward here, how how should we look at this and how much of that will sort of are it sticking so that will continue to impact you and how much will sort of it's just isolated to to to the second quarter i'm just trying to figure out how how to look at the margin profile for you going forward yeah if you can tell me what the effects between second us would be in a quarter then then i can answer that question easier yeah well let's assume that current effects rates continue then

But I think the big part, the biggest part is for a direct hit. So it should help if it stabilizes a little bit, but it will still be a negative, I think. But it's extremely, it's many, many kind of, it's not that easy to calculate that fully, but there are many different scenarios.

Maybe I can add some color. I mean, as you allude to, Zlatko, there are two effects from the FX, if you take Manlyken. And first of all, just to establish, I think it's the dollar versus the euro that's the maybe most or most important currency relationship. And also... When you look at it in a single quarter, you will have some revaluation effects and then some effects that are basically, you know, based on the level rather. And I think it's fair to say that the revaluation effects were the smaller part of the FX effect this quarter. Yes, correct.

Okay, so if I understand that, so out of the 15, then, the bulk of that negative impact will continue into Q3, given that there will be no changes on the FX. Is that how I should read it?

Sort of, yes. But then again, Johan, as you know, I mean, it's also where FX are during the quarter, et cetera, et cetera. But the smaller part was the revaluation part. Okay, cool. Thanks a lot.

And thank you very much, Lopko.

Yeah, no worries. Thank you.

There are no further audio questions. Thank you, Heidi. Then we have a couple of questions online as well. Let's capture a few of them. I think the first one has been covered, the impact of exchange rate totally in this quarter. That was from Kenneth Tullin. So I'll skip that and jump to the next one from Fredrik Hilberg. Defence spending is expected to grow significantly in investors' portfolio target markets. Do you have numbers for revenue exposure to the defense vertical? And where do you expect this growth to materialize in the portfolio? Would you like to cover?

Okay, I can start. Thanks for the question. And I mean, if we look at Saab... First, it's about 5% of, let's say, ownership-weighted sales, but expected to grow, of course. And then that's the bulk of our defense exposure, of course. But needless to say, you also have other businesses, for example, Ericsson, PIAB, et cetera, that indirectly at least benefit from the increased defense spending.

Very good. Thank you. Next one from Morten Larsen at ABG. Slotko talked about a 5 million euro tariff hit in Q2, but this has come late in the quarter or last in the quarter. What would a full quarter run rate hit be as we look into Q3?

I can take that if you want, Slavsko. I'll take the first track and you fill in. Unfortunately, we're not able to tell because there are so many moving parts. So it's really not a meaningful exercise, sort of. I understand what... what what you're after but let's let's see where things land and and we we just repeat what we said that we saw some direct impact in manly and in some other companies as well and they were tilted naturally towards the latter part of the quarter and my answer is the same as christian so i have nothing to add that's great

And the last one we have is from Anil Sharma at Point 72. Good morning. I wanted to understand the potential impact of pharma tariffs on some of the assets within Patricia Industries. Trump said he would allow for a 1 to 1.5 year grace period to bring back manufacturing to the U.S. before levying a 200 percent sectoral tariff. It's unclear if during that grace period pharmaceutical companies would be subject to a lower tariff rate. Has Investor done any analysis around this? How should we think about the impact? For example, what percentage of your manufacturing is outside the U.S. that could be in scope? Thank you.

I can start. I think... That discussion relates most directly to AstraZeneca and Sobi. And what I would say is that for both those companies, they have a significant share of revenues from the US, but also they have a significant share of that sales being manufactured locally in the United States. So that provides some mitigation or cushion. But of course, there will be some effects.

Good. And as we are speaking, the interest is very high today. So we have a couple of more coming in. One from Victor Philip. Any comments on the NVIDIA partnership with investor slash Wallenberg? I guess referring to the investments made with four of our companies and Wallenberg investments a few weeks back.

Very quickly, a really interesting initiative. And it's, as you say, Jacob, four portfolio companies and then Wallenberg Investments, who have jointly then invested in AI compute capacity. In Sweden, so that will be sort of safe and resilient. And that will be used as a complement to other, call it normal cloud-based compute power for both model training, but also inference.

Thank you. Final one. Do you have an unified AI strategy for group companies or does each company have to invest separately? That comes from Shampa at Nagaro.

So there are examples where we can cooperate, of course, but the basic of our ownership model, as you know, is a decentralized one. So it's up to each company to see where they see the most benefit from AI and how that is then being provided. But of course, we do all we can to make sure that good examples, for example, are shared between the companies. And I should say that this is one of the areas, I mean, we've said before, there are a couple of, when it comes to future-proofing, it's different for every company, but there are also a couple of themes that run across basically our whole portfolio. AI is clearly one of those. Sustainability is another one. So it's a great question.

Good. Thanks a lot for all the questions today. I can't see any further ones. Many thanks to you, Slatko, for joining us today. Thank you, Christian and Jenny as well. Next scheduled call is our interim report for the third quarter, which is scheduled for October 16th. And until then, thank you and goodbye.