Kambi Group plc

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Canby's Q2 earnings call. At this time, all participants are in the listen-only mode, and after the speaker presentations, there will be time for questions and answers. To ask your questions on the teleconference, you will need to press star one one on the telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising you that your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one and one again. If you are following us through the webcast, you may submit your questions through the chat. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. So, the agenda for today. We will start with some highlights from our CEO, Werner Becher. This will be followed by a financial summary from our CFO, David Kenyon. Then Werner will come back with some operational updates and a summary. Following the presentation, we will have time for the Q&A. With that, I would like to hand over the conference to you, Werner. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Matthias. Good morning, everyone. Our financial performance was once again in line with our expectations, but I'd like to stress not in line with our ambitions, which are much greater. It was a quarter set against a difficult comparative period last year with the Euros and Copa Americas, as well as the band transition fees, as David will explain shortly. Just after the quarter end, we signed an agreement with Leo Vegas, which not only sees us to continue to provide our turnkey sportsbook until the end of 2027, but also our Odds Feed Plus product in markets where they move across to their own sportsbook. The first examples being Finland and Denmark just a couple of weeks ago. Just recently, we made a new turnkey partner signing with a Latin American-facing red cap, adding to our momentum in the region. And as we highlighted after our EGM in June, we have initiated our largest share buyback program to date, underlining the confidence we have in the future prospects of our business. On the whole, the period provided examples of encouraging progress, which each in isolation may perhaps seem small, but taken together sees us progress on our path to creating a more stable platform for long-term growth. Now I'll hand over to you, David, who will speak a little bit more in depth about our financial performance.

Thank you, Anna, and good morning, everyone. Revenue for Q2 was 40.5 million euros. This quarter we faced a challenging prior year comparative of £45.7 million, which included some non-recurring transition fees of £4.5 million. We also had an FX constant currency impact versus last year of £1.2 million. And there have been various gaming-related tax increases also since Q2 last year. So a difficult comparative this quarter. I'm pleased to say that in terms of our costs, we started seeing the effects of our ongoing efficiency programme. there was a 4% decrease in our total expenses, despite an FX headwind. And this cost reduction enabled us to post an adjusted earnings before interest, tax and amortization on acquisitions of 3.7 million. For the first half, this metric is at 7.2 million, excluding the foreign exchange on revaluations we saw in Q1. We have 53.1 million euros in the bank as we end the first half. And as Werner mentioned, we just started our latest 15 million share buyback program. This slide sets out the Canby turnover index, which is an aggregated performance of our entire network. The blue columns represent the aggregated index turnover originally set at 100 of all our operators. And the orange line is the aggregated operator trading margin. In terms of the turnover, you'll see that it was down just under 5% from Q2 last year, and there's a number of reasons for that 5% decrease. Firstly, last year there was the Euro 2024 and the Copa America. which added quite significantly to the turnover in Q2 last year. This quarter, we saw the Club World Cup, which we'll talk more about, which was a helpful addition to the sporting calendar, but didn't match up in terms of turnover versus those events last year. Since Q2 last year, Kindred has exited the US and its dot-com markets. And we've also seen the impact of tightened regulations in the Netherlands, which have impacted turnover there. In terms of foreign exchange, we've seen a weaker Colombian peso and US dollar, which have impacted the value of our turnover in those regions. And of course, you'll see in the graph that the operator trading margin increased significantly from 10.3% in Q2 last year to 11.5% this year. And there is a correlation between that high margin and a reduced level of turnover. These negative factors have been offset to a certain degree by customers who have launched since the start of Q2 2024. Of course, we have also seen growth in the Brazilian regulated market from the 1st of January this year, as well as organic growth across areas of our portfolio. The decrease you can see in turnover versus Q1 was the expected seasonality pattern of the American football, basketball, and soccer seasons. offset by the baseball season of the MLB starting in Q2. Looking forward, Q3 is typically fairly quiet in the sporting calendar, but Q4 will be much busier with a full quarter of many of the key sports. The margin was high at 11.5%, the highest you can see on this period on the graph. Football in particular had strong margins this quarter. We also saw strong engagement with our high-margin BetBuilder product. Here we see the development of our profitability metric, the EBITDA that I mentioned earlier, from Q2 2024 to this year. A lot to talk through on this slide, a lot of detail. I'll try and keep it straightforward. First column is the impact of the growth of our 2024 signings and our existing portfolio, so effectively the organic growth in the business. The second column is driven by the growth in operator trading margin that I mentioned from 10.3% to 11.5%. That has a significant boost to our revenues. The third light blue column is the 2025 launches. This includes both the customers who launched in Brazil in January, as well as the odds feed plus deals we've signed since Q2 last year. In terms of Brazil, I think it's fair to say it's underperformed our expectations so far. And also, we should note it's a jurisdiction that faces a raise in its gaming tax in Q4 this year. The next column is the impact of the major football tournaments. As I mentioned, last year in particular, the Euro 2024 contributed significantly to the turnover. Of course, that was not something that occurred this year, but we did have the Club World Cup, which was smaller in quantum, but a helpful addition to the sporting calendar. The next column was 4.5 million of transition fees, which we had last year, but not this year. The largest piece here was 3.2 million from Penn National Gaming. Those transition fees ran until July 2024, so this is the last quarter where there's a full effect on the comps. Additionally, there was 1.25 million from Napoleon Gaming. These fees ran at that level until December 2024. The next column first relates to operator migrations moving out of the Canby network. So here we see the impact of both the kindred exit of the US and the dot-com markets. Also 32 Red and Mr. Green who migrated during Q1 away from Canby. The final orange column in the revenue section is the gaming tax and other, and there's a few items in here worth mentioning. Firstly, the VAT on deposits in the Colombian market has had a significant impact on our revenue levels as well as our operators. That's shown in this column. The impact of the deposit limits in the Netherlands has also had a material effect on our numbers since last year. Additionally, the commission rate impacts of certain key contract renewals are shown in this column. And lastly, there's been a number of gaming tax increases in Netherlands, Sweden, and Illinois in particular, all of which add up to that last orange column on the revenue factors. As I mentioned earlier, there have been cost-saving effects from our ongoing efficiency program, and we've seen savings across staff costs, consultancy, and infrastructure since this time last year. We have faced an FX headwind across both revenue and costs, however. On the revenue, both the US dollar and the Colombian peso have weakened. At the same time, the SEC, the Swedish krona, has strengthened, and these both have moved in the wrong direction for us in terms of our EBITDA. So we've contributed to the final position, after all these many moving parts, of 3.7 million for the quarter. Our cash at the start of this quarter was 56.4 million. We made tax payments in the quarter totalling 3.8 million, with refunds on part of the Maltese tax expected in a later quarter. We also spent 2.9 million on share buybacks, which both concluded a previous program before the AGM and then started after our AGM in June. We started a new 15 million euro program and we start to see the first effects of that at the end of Q2. This left a closing cash balance of 53.1 million euros. And in terms of our share buybacks, we repurchased 280,000 shares in Q2. And this took the H1 repurchase to over 980,000 shares for a value of 9.9 million. We also announced, as I mentioned, a 15 million euro program running to November in line with our capital allocation policy to return capital to shareholders for any excess cash in the business. So with that, I'm going to pass back to you, Werner.

Thank you, David. As mentioned earlier, we have seen progress in a number of areas over recent months with some of those developments shown on this slide. I spoke in the last quote about Bad Place expansion into Paraguay and the launch of a new path operated brand in Sweden. So I'll focus today on the other items here. During the remainder of Q2, we signed an extension with Joy Gaming Sportsbook, which is one of the top five operators in the Netherlands market, with their brand Chex. Despite the recent application of betting limits, Netherlands remains an important market for us. So we are pleased to agree this extension with one of the leading brands in the country. We also continue to strengthen our relationship with Bally's. In June, Camby supported Bally's with sportsbook launches in the UK and Ireland for its Monopoly and Rainbow Ridges brands, and we anticipate further launches in the future. Although it's only late July, Q3 has already proven to be a busy one for Camby, perhaps headlined by a new deal with Leo Vegas, which comes into two parts. Firstly, the extension of our turnkey deal, which runs until the end of 2027 now, securing revenue for Camby during this time. And secondly, the OddsFeed Plus agreement, which will mean Leo Vegas will, and already has, integrated our OddsFeed API, so they can choose from our selection of high-quality traded odds to support their in-house operation. We've also signed a retail agreement with DraftKings to assist the launch of a sportsbook in Puerto Rico. The technical compliance requirements in Puerto Rico are rather unique, but as we are already active there with a compliant retail product and the fact we had a prior relationship with DraftKings means it makes sense to work together to support their market entry. Yesterday, we announced the turnkey sports book deal with Latin America-facing operator Redcap, which operates Betbro and Starplay brands in the region. We'll soon be launching in El Salvador and Panama with the scope for more markets and a retail channel launch in future. Redcap has strong financial backing and high ambitions, so we look forward to seeing how this partnership can grow and continues our expansion in an increasingly important region for us. Redcap decided to join Camby from an alternative sportsbook supplier, which highlights the quality of product and service we offer. Let me talk a second about the FIFA Club World Cup. David spoke a little earlier about the delta between the major football tournaments of last year and this. The newly expanded FIFA Club World Cup wasn't ever expected to fill the void of last summer's major championships. But that doesn't mean to say it wasn't a success, from a betting perspective at least. Being held out in the US, the timings for some of the games didn't fall kindly for European viewers, but were in favor of viewers in the Americas, and in Latin America particularly. We saw great engagement with our partners in the Latin American region, driving approximately 80% of our bets on the World Cup of Teams. I think once again, this speaks to the benefits of our global reach. While we have seen some European operators and suppliers bemoan the modest impact of the Club World Cup, for us, the tournament exceeded expectations. Although comparisons during the quarter are difficult to make, the Club World Cup was the fourth highest generator of turnover during Q2 for us, despite having a far fewer games compared to the MLB, MNB, Premier League and eSoccer. So even though the Club World Cup didn't match the dizzy highs of Euros or Copa America's last year, for us it was a very much welcome addition to the sporting calendar. The signing of Red Cap in Latin America and the positive performance of the Club World Cup in the region are part of a broader growth story for us in Latin America. As you can see here, our Q2 performance has grown year on year over the past few years, with the latest increase largely driven by our expansion into Brazil. A market which has so far underperformed our expectations, so we remain hopeful for further growth there. And of course, the Q2 2025 performance comes against the tough comparative, also in Latin America, of last year's Copa Americas and Euros. So, Latin America is an increasingly important market for Canby, albeit one of a tough competition and even more competitive pricing. To enhance our prospects, we recently hired a new head of sales for Latin America, who brings great experience and strong connections in the region. I've spoken before about how we are aiming to diversify our revenue streams, and esports is one of the products increasingly helping us to do just that. What you can see on this slide is the growing impact esports, powered by our EBIOS division, is having for us throughout the turnkey sportsbook. Over the past few years, we have seen sizable increases in esports turnover, largely driven by eSoccer, as you saw in an earlier slide, but also strong growth in the more traditional esports games. In Q2, esports was the fifth biggest sports generating turnover of the quarter, finishing ahead of the likes of ice hockey, horse racing and golf as an example. And it's this positive story around esports that is also helping us to sell into operators our Ortsfeed Plus product. Operators can see not only the uplift it gives to their sportsbook today, but the ability to attract a slightly different demographic to further enrich their customer base. We firmly believe esports will be a staple of the selection our Ortsfeed customers make. So in summary, Q2 saw us deliver a performance in line with expectations, although to reiterate, our long-term expectations are far greater. That said, it was encouraging to see our costs come down as we continue to focus on efficiency and productivity. We initiated a 50 million euros share buyback program, our largest to date, delivering value to shareholders and underlining the confidence we have in the future prospects of our business. Finally, we continue on our mission to diversify our revenue to create a stronger platform for long-term sustainable growth. And there remain exciting opportunities ahead.

Thank you, Werner. And with that, we are ready to take questions from the teleconference. I hand over the word to the operator.

Thank you. To ask a question, please press star 1 1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 1 1 again. We will now take the first question from the line of Oscar Rongvist from ABG Sander Collier. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good morning, guys, and thanks for taking my questions. So my first one would be just if you could help a little bit with the seasonality. I think you say that H1 was broadly as expected. Q2 looks maybe a bit boosted by the strong sports book margin. I think you mentioned that as well. So Q2, just considering this high sports book, Martin, was that still in line? And just in terms of seasonality, Dan, I think you've made around $7 million in EBITDA, excluding the FX revaluations, which, you know, to meet $20 million for the full year obviously needs to have a pretty strong H2 ramp-up, so... Could you help us a little bit with the seasonality in Q3 and Q4 and talk about Q2 in the light of the strong sportsbook margin? Thanks.

Yeah, I can start, Oscar. I think firstly, in terms of Q2, I think there's clearly a correlation between that high margin and the level of turnover. So if it had been a lower, maybe more regular margin, then we expect the turnover would have been higher. So I don't think it really would have changed necessarily materially the overall picture of the performance in the quarter. Looking forward to how we get to the guidance for the full year. Yeah, it's a good question. It's the areas we expect to see growth. In particular, I would say we expect more growth from our signings that have happened at the start of this year. So both the Brazilian market and the odds feed plus deals. We hope to generate revenues from OLG during the second half, which will be a direct add-on to any performance we've seen in the first half. The sporting calendar, like you say, always ticks up significantly in the fourth quarter in particular. That will drive our revenues. Lastly, you'll see more impact, more positive contribution from the savings program that we continue to roll out across the company. These are some of the factors we're looking for in the second half.

All right, perfect. And then just, I think you have 2.3 million in negative effects on EBITDA year to date. And also you've talked a little bit about the expectations you had on Brazil has maybe underperformed a bit. So just to put some takes for when you initially announced the guidance, obviously the effects you cannot do much about, but And just on Brazil, are there any other fluctuations relative to your initial expectations when you set up the guidance?

There's been a few other taxes announced, gaming taxes, which we listed in the report. There's a number of taxes that have Popped up during the year, which obviously make life a little bit harder in terms of reaching that guidance. But at this stage, nothing that blows us off course. But, you know, if you look at those taxes, I think they have effects in the region of half a million to one million versus our original expectation from those increased taxes. But no, nothing else I can think of that's materially changed. No.

All right. So in light of these headwinds, is it fair to assume that maybe you're heading towards the lower end of the full year guidance?

I think that's a quite fair assumption given the FX, given the tax pieces I've talked about. But it's still uncertain at this stage. And we've still got, as I mentioned, there's a lot of moving parts between here and where we expect to see improvement in the second half. So, yeah, at the moment, we're keeping the guidance untouched.

Perfect. Thank you. Just a final one. Obviously, you have some cost efficiencies now in 2025. And I just saw that I think the employees have kind of flattened out at least between Q1, Q2. I think you've talked a little bit about you can have some more efficiencies on the trading side. Could you help us understand a little bit on the timeline of any further cost reductions maybe going into 2026 and when you expect those efficiencies could come into the numbers?

I think we'll continue making smaller efficiencies across the business. I mean, we're making efficiencies not only on the staff side, but also in our infrastructure and our consultants. It's across the business. It's not just in staffing. I think the impact on staffing from AI and the products we're developing, that will likely come during 2026. We don't know the exact timeline yet, but that one... We'll have to keep you posted when it comes with a bit more certainty. But, you know, as I said, it's not just across staff. We'll make efficiencies. You're going to see reductions in the second half in a number of areas.

Got it. Perfect. Thank you very much. That was all for me.

Thanks.

Thank you. As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please press star 1 and 1. We will now take the next question from the line of Martin Arnell from DNB Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Yes. Hi, guys. Good morning. I think many of my questions already been asked about the second half, but maybe we could just, could you mention why the contribution from new customers in the second half You mentioned OLG impact. What's the expected timeline for the launch? Can you remind us there? And also anything else in addition to OLG that we should think of in terms of new customers coming in?

Yeah, so thanks for the question, Martin. We are fully on track with our project with Ontario Lottery. So we expect to launch as initially planned in the second half of the year. We'll be more end of quarter three, beginning of quarter four. And we also expect revenue contributions for 2025 P&L from OLG already this year. It's a significant new customer for us with a lot of bespoke work to be done. On all the other opportunities in our pipeline, as you know, we can't comment. There are also some RFP processes out at the moment where all tenderers have to sign confidentiality agreements, NDAs, etc. So unfortunately, we can't comment on these opportunities in our pipeline. But as soon as we have signed contracts, we will, of course, announce.

Perfect. Thank you, Werner. And I guess Q3 is also quiet, especially now in the summer, but I guess at least you can see sequential increase quarter on quarter for Q3. And the reason I ask this is just, I mean, you have a guidance, it's intact and it's pretty clear. Is that fair to assume a higher EBITDA in Q3?

I don't think we're going to make a short-term forecast on Q3. I'd say the vast majority of the uptick is going to come in Q4. So, yeah, I think, yeah, I don't see Q3 being – it really depends, of course, on margin in particular. But in general, Q3 should be relatively similar to Q2 in terms of underlying business.

Ian? Okay, I'll rephrase the question. Is it fair to say that the seasonality impact is stronger in Q3 than in Q4 in general for this sector?

Much quieter in Q3 than Q4, absolutely, yeah. Significantly, yeah.

I mean, most of the big leagues don't really start until... Sorry, my question was higher seasonality in Q3 than in Q2 in general for this sector, given the big football leagues start in August, September.

Yeah, so we now have the MLB running in the US. We have women's Euro running at the moment. And we had the big European soccer leagues ending their season in Q2, including Champions League final, a lot of big events. And as you mentioned, we have starting the seasons end of August, beginning of September now. So I would say from the busyness of the sporting calendar, Q2 is quite similar to Q3.

Okay, thank you. And then I have a question on commercial terms. You often talk about that when you resign a customer. Can you give some color on the Leo Vegas contract? Does that now include MGM also so the take rate is lower?

So, of course, because of confidentiality, of commercial sensitivity, we can't disclose our commercial terms with customers. But as you know, we are working for a long time now already with LeoVegas. And a heavy decrease in our commercial terms was not the main area of this deal. So they are rolling out their sportsbook. As you know, we're happy to support them for two years more. And we are fully supportive on our esports deal with them, which is a great deal.

so the the main thing here was not changing the commercials okay thank you and my final question just on on the i saw that you you'd signed the contract with draftkings which you mentioned in the report why did you why didn't you press release that one

Sometimes in negotiations with commercial agreements, customers are quite reluctant about letting us announce deals publicly. So we managed with them allowing us to mention this in the quarterly report. But they were not happy to pushing this out very loudly. Just let me say it this way.

Perfect. Fair enough. Thank you, guys.

Thank you. There are no further questions on the phone at this time. I would like to hand back over for any webcast questions.

Thank you. So we will have the questions from the chat. So I will read them and then you can just answer to me, please. BALIS recently sold its international business to Intralot. Can you comment on how this may impact your non-US business with BALIS, for good or for bad?

I can comment on it if you want. At the moment, it's absolutely business as usual for us with Bellis. We have a great relationship with Bellis. The transaction, so far as we know, relates mainly to their business outside of DS. Our sportsbook business with Bellis is mainly in the US. So we will see how this merger develops. But we mainly see there's an opportunity at the moment for Cambie with a premium product. And we see that a larger business group like now also including Intralet could have some nice additional opportunities for us. Because we are 100% sure that Bellis as well as Intralet understand the quality of our product. Thanks.

Second question then. RedCap was won from a competing supplier. How have you seen the competition evolve?

Yeah, so I think it's fair to say there is an ongoing trend over many years, I would say even more than a decade now, that our commercial terms, our ref share, the whole B2B sports book industry is coming a little bit down. I think 10 years ago, reference were around 25%, 20%. We are now, let's say, in a range of 12, 10%. And with all the efficiencies mainly coming from AI, looking forward, we expect to be in a position, being more cost efficient going forward, that we will be able to offer even more attractive pricing to our customers to take more market share. So there is not so much competition, I would say, in the US because of the very rigorous licensing restrictions in the US. There is some competition in Europe. South America is a battlefield at the moment. It's also very competitive on pricing, but regulation is always in our favor. So more and more operators also in Latin America being on the platform of alternative suppliers now, entering regulated markets understand the need and the importance of a premium product we offer. So South America going forward will be a very important market for us.

Thanks. Last quarter, you spoke about the sales pipeline and in particular opportunities with the state-owned sector, such as lotteries. Can you provide any updates here? Are you still confident in your position within this customer segment?

A tough question to answer, Matthias. As I mentioned a few minutes ago, as a normal course of business, of course, we are part of many tenders. And yes, there are some public tenders, tenders of state-owned big companies out there at the moment. But all these tender processes start with signing an NDA. So we can't comment on any RFP process or any public tenders until they come to a point where we have negotiated also contract terms and we sign a contract. Then we, of course, will immediately announce. But unfortunately, they can't comment on any of these ongoing processes now.

Thanks. How is interest for the Odds Feed Plus product and other new products? Has this met your expectations?

I would say, yes, it has met our expectations when it comes to our pipeline and the interest we see from the market. It's fair to say it takes a little bit longer than expected to close these, especially because we are focused at the moment on tier 0 and tier 1 operators. And decision-making processes, the IT roadmaps to integrate the API with these companies can be quite complicated and take a while. So that's, I would call it a learning for us. We're still very confident that we are on the right track with our strategy. And this is a great product for the market. But yes, it's probably the D's coming in a little bit slower than expected.

And then a follow up. Can you give some color on the Audifit Plus launch with Leo in Denmark and Finland? Which sports and so on?

Yeah, I'm not allowed because of commercial sensitivity and contracts. We have signed with them to talk in detail about what exactly they will take from us. But from a technical perspective and a contractual perspective, they are free to take whatever they want from us. Of course, we have discussed and agreed on some content they will take from the beginning. but like with many of our customers all speed plus product we are very confident that when they see in reality in production the product performing against the odds feed suppliers they use today that they will take more and more from us this is also learning we have of course from hardrock thanks here's a question i think we may not be able to answer but i'll ask it anyway is the minimum guarantee fee in the new contract with leo vegas yeah we can't comment on this of course right

Can you say something about the growth in Brazil compared to the first quarter?

Yeah, I would say we saw some slightly increase in revenues, turnover, betting activity as now also the Brazilian League and some other local national leagues are up and running after their summer break in our winter. As David mentioned, Brazil is still performing below our expectations. We have some customers in the region performing as expected. Some looks like holding a little bit back with their market initiatives still, which is, of course, out of our control. But we still see Brazil going forward as a big, important market for us. The new taxes coming up in August will... October, sorry, will, of course, be a little bit, yeah, dampering these ambitions in the market for many operators. But in general, and to us, the sports fan base in Brazil, big country, a proper regulation in place now should be in our favor long term. um you received your nevada license in q1 can you please give a general update on commercial progress and opportunities yeah so there is not a lot of competition in nevada on the sportsbook side as licensing is so difficult in nevada and there are only very very few licensed b2p suppliers there not only licensing is a little bit complicated because nevada is the gold standard out there Also, certification and testing of the product takes some time. GLI certification, running field tests, etc. So we are on track with completing all these requirements for certification. And of course, our business development team is in touch with many local operators already and our pipeline is filling up.

Good. Referring to your comments regarding current business performance, what are the primary areas where you see the greatest opportunities for improvement?

Would you like to take it or should I?

Well, I'll talk about costs and you can talk about revenue. Sure, let's do it that way. Yeah, I mean, from my side, we've already seen a shift in the cost base, but there's more to do. You know, that is something we as a team continue to push on. As I mentioned earlier, it's not just looking at headcount numbers. It's where should stuff be located? What are we paying our suppliers? Why do we need these consultants? You know, it's looking at lifting every rock in the business to look at costs. So from my side, that's a continuing push and it will be for the foreseeable future.

Yeah, we're very focused on our long term vision and strategy. So we are not doing any stupid cost cutting here. We are implementing a high performance culture. We're looking on productivity. We're looking on efficiency. And this is a very big project internally because it's a culture change. for the company but cost cutting for sure will not help us to get out of more or less stable revenue base for some years now so I think with our new product portfolio with Latin America and the next thing Asia coming more regulation to come also in the US with California Texas and more states there are a lot of opportunities for us out there with odds feed specifically but more products to come soon in our portfolio we will increase our time we will broaden our customer base so on the revenue side i think after leo vegas and kindred uh leaving us uh the momentum on on the on the pipeline on the commercial side is is is very convincing thanks uh

Regarding the DraftKings retail agreement in Puerto Rico, do you see a chance for incremental sales in DraftKings or is it more a one-off given the compliance complexities there.

That's also a question about commercial sensitivity now. What I can say that, of course, also with DraftKings, we had some discussions about our OTSFIT Plus product to support them in other regions. Let me say these are very productive, constructive discussions we have to them, as with many other Tier 1 and Tier 0 operators. So I couldn't guarantee that there will be no further discussions deals with DraftKings, but I can't comment on anything else.

Thanks. And then the last question is from the chat. Would you be open to act as a market maker on the prediction market exchanges in the US? Or if prediction markets continue to be popular, how do you plan to participate in that trend?

Yeah, so definitely prediction markets are a big topic in the US now. We are closely monitoring the situation there. Like many of the operators in the US, also for us being licensed in 20 plus jurisdictions in the US, we have to be super careful to not enter any unregulated markets. What does this mean? This means that for the prediction market operators entering these illegal, unregulated markets now, for sure they could have a head start because they could create a customer database already now. We will see how these legal petals will end up. I expect them to take a few years more. For now, it's very difficult for us to enter these unregulated illegal markets in the US without risking the business we already have in the US. Thanks.

Thank you. That concludes the questions from the chat and the presentation. So thank you, Werner and David, for joining and thank you everyone for participating. We will of course be happy to take any additional questions you may have. Please send them to me. Otherwise, we look forward to seeing you on the 5th of November when we disclose our Q3 earnings. Thank you.