KebNi AB (publ)

Hello and welcome to this interview with Kebni and its CEO Torbjörn Saxmo. Torbjörn will start with a presentation about Kebni and then we will end with a Q&A session. And with that, I welcome you, Torbjörn. Thank you. And I will pass on the word and picture to you at once. Thank you.

We start by looking at Kebni as a company. We focus on building products that deal with stabilization, navigation and satellite communication. We do this in two product areas, Inertial Sensing and Satcom. Typical customers are in defense, authorities, but also commercial companies with businesses with high requirements for performance and robustness. Examples of customers are Saab and Epiroc. Then we come to our first quarter for 2025. The turnover ends at 35 million, which is 13% up compared to the corresponding period last year. EBITDA 3.4 million, which is 10% in line with last year, so we continue on that trend. The net result is 0.9 million, which is 2%. Operative cash flow minus 8.2 million. There we have built customer feedings. We have bought a bit of long-term development competence. And we have bought components to secure and shorten lead times in upcoming businesses. So a bit of a strategic investment. Vi har precis också släppt nyheten att vi fick en tilläggsbeställning på IMU-er till Enlo, den fjärde i ordningen och den hittills största, 134 miljoner. Vi har ett mycket gott samarbete med Saab och här fortsätter vi att leverera på inslagen väg. Comments in general from the report. I can state that internationally and nationally there is an extremely large interest in drones and different types of drone applications. Both navigation of the fare cost as such, but also control and stabilization of platforms on the fare cost, for example for cameras and the like. A quote taken from reality. A reseller sent, after we had given him the specification and price list, comments on our Sensation family. Excellent product placement. You're killing industrial competition with spec and tactical competition with price. Typiskt jätteroligt budskap att få höra av någon som har en känsla för marknaden att vi har hittat en nisch som gör oss lite unika prisprestandamässigt, vilket vi har sagt hela tiden egentligen. Så det här är en bekräftelse för mig. Slut.

Thank you for a good presentation, Torbjörn. And before this quarter, we have talked a lot about just getting the year-round started. And you have said that there are things in the pipeline. Is this big order from Saab one of those that we have talked about?

That's one of them. We always have a dialogue with Saab and have, of course, a sense of what's happening and what's not happening. It's well known that Saab is a large sales machine and has been incredibly successful in recent times, so there's no doubt It is not difficult to calculate that things are happening and things are on the way all the time.

134 million. When I have counted back in the past, I have landed that there should be about 70 left. This is more than that. Can this be linked to any of the previous orders? Or is it from France that has not been made public? Or how should you see this?

I don't think Saab is ultimately saying that this order is connected to this customer or something like that. I think it's more about continuity. So it's customer-independent, I would say. When do the deliveries of these IMUs start? It will be a sleepless transition from the current production, the internal orders, and this will make us well during 2026.

Yes, because if we look at the gross margin this quarter, then it was a little higher than the previous quarter, but not so high that it looks like you have sold some antennas that have a significantly higher gross margin. That's why I interpret it as that even this quarter, Enlo emits the base of the sales.

Yes, but that's right. The base of the turnover is based on EMU. There is a small exception, but in all essence you are right. Then of course there is a difference between different IMUs as well. It's not just one IMU we sell, it's a product mix also on the IMU side. And that makes a difference. Then of course, we have said that we work with efficiency, we try to make things smarter and better. There are a few things like that that go through as well, I think.

Then I interpret this as that you can expect at least this result going forward in and with this year as well. So it feels like a very stable base. It sounds like a reasonable analysis. Yes. And then we have, we were in it now on antennas, so I think we'll continue there. Because there we have also talked since the end of 24 about that it is boiling even on that front. Is there any update on that?

Yes, we have a number of business cases we work on and it looks extremely exciting. The difficulty is that when you are nicely far down in the business chain, to know really when things and things happen. We have good signals. Men att översätta det till datum och kunna vara helt säker, det är svårt. Men saker och ting fortsätter och vi har en progress som gör att vi ser positivt på framtiden, mycket positivt.

Wonderful. And then I also think that we should talk a little bit about Sensation. Because in the last update, the quarterly report we recorded, we talked about that now it was done with the start of production. Has that gone well and have you started delivering to customers on this?

Yes, absolutely. And it's part of What I was talking about, that we have bought some components and built some layers to be able to handle faster deliveries to different customers. So far, we have not come i den fasen att vi levererar serieproducerade sensation till någon som monterar in det i sin serieproduktion, inte i några större kvantiteter än, utan de ligger fortfarande framför oss, men vi håller ju på att förbereda oss för att sånt ska inträffa och vi vidtar åtgärder på olika sätt för att be ready to ramp up when it's time.

Exactly. Since you have just started production, you have not been able to do that. So I think this is also in front of us. Absolutely. So with the base at this level, as we see this quarter, and with further strengthening with this IMU order, if you get an antenna order, do you have to add some costs to deliver it?

Or can you use the staff base you have today? Det hanterar vi på befintlig personalbas, absolut. Det kommer ovanpå allting.

So, with this base, then you are profitable. If we add deliveries out of antennas, then it is put on top of everything, without any especially increased costs, under the brutto margin, of course. And then you have the opportunity to start delivering volume orders on Sensation, quite simply. It sounds like it can be a pretty nice continuation.

That's what we think.

Yes. And... If we then have talked about these areas, is there any other area that you feel that here we get a good traction right now with your products?

Yes, but I think it's worth mentioning in the context is still Skaffsens. We have worked with this for quite a long time before a untrained eye, a first analysis can question the difficulties with building positions. It can seem trivial, but measuring small vibrations on large building positions where things and things move and you drop a slab or you go on a slope or whatever, it's not that simple. Det är ganska komplexa system som vi syr ihop. Vi står nu i begreppet att gå ut hårt till kund och få de första betalande kunderna förhoppningsvis innan halvårsskiftet. Vi har lansering i både Sverige och Norge som drar igång här i närtid. It is also an exciting upside that does not exist in many places.

Then it sounds like this 10% margin, if you manage to win these additional orders, can be a little higher. It sounds like there is a pretty good scalability underlying this. And that leads us into the cash flow, which this quarter was quite bad, to put it bluntly. Is there any concern about the cash here now?

Nej, det gör det inte. Vi har inga som helst planer på att göra någon emission för att ta in pengar. Det är det absolut inte. Nej.

As you said, there was a lot of customer support and lower costs that led to this, so I think it should be evened out.

Absolutely, and then we also have the credit that we have not used, which is a buffer zone for us.

And then you mention that you have resellers. How does the sales happen? Is it mainly by resellers or is it direct sales to customers as well? Or how do you reach the market and customers?

It's a mix. We try to ramp it up in a reasonable way so that it's both resellers and direct sales. All types of sales generate some hours of technical support on the home front, where we have to answer the customer's questions, help the customer get started with the use, help the customer get started with the integration in their product. And that takes a little time. So that... For us, it is important that we move forward in parallel with a sales force and an engineering team behind that can support the customers so that they get started. And for us, it is an important selling point that we maintain that service actively to be attractive and be appreciated, quite simply.

I'm coming back to the margin and the base we have in the stability in the business. If you get in antenna orders that you are continuously delivering, the margin and cash flow will improve. What are you going to do with the money? It doesn't sound like it's just sales power. Is there anything else you want to invest in?

There are a lot of things we need to do in the long run. Somewhere there is a limit and we need to invest in additional production capacity to be able to deliver on the IMU side. There are things that we want to do to improve our products and be even more attractive on the market. So it's a battery of measures that we will be willing to take in order to continue to expand and not reach any threshold. Our goal is to be a growth company and with that we tighten the bow and that means that we must continue to invest forward.

Reinvesting in growth sounds like a nice type of cost increase and investments. And finally, how do you feel about the continuation of 2025? What do you see ahead of the end of the year?

I think 2025 will be a very exciting year. Jag ser framför mig ytterligare ett år av stabila leveranser till Saab. Jag ser framför mig ett antal spännande satellitkommunikationsaffärer. Jag ser framför mig att vi... We have started to get a real rotation on Sensation, so that it starts to be felt and seen in our figures. So that's what's going to happen this year.

It sounds like we have a very exciting year ahead of us. Thank you very much, Torbjörn, for being here and telling us more. And thank you very much to everyone who has watched. If you have any more questions, you are very welcome to talk to me.