NCAB Group AB (publ)

Thank you very much and welcome all to our Q4 release. First, a few bit of information about NCAB. So we at NCAB, we are a supplier of printed circuit boards and those are the products that you see to the left of this slide, which basically creates the foundation in any electronic or intelligent product. So our customers are the ones placing components on the boards that could be either OEM customers or it could be contract manufacturers. Our focus is on printed circuit board for demanding customers. We are focusing on customers with high demands in terms of quality, technology, and we aim to supply them with zero defect products produced also sustainably, giving them the most competitive offer by offering an overall lowest total cost. We are aiming to be the number one PCB supplier wherever we are, and we are already the globally leading producer of printed circuit boards worldwide. We are operating with a local presence in around 19 countries. We are some 660 specialists in the group and we have no in-house manufacturing, but are working with a network of factories and our main factories, which are currently around 34, make up around 90% of our total deliveries. Besides looking at the demanding customers, we're also focused on the high mix, low volume segments of the market. So we are not involved in super high volume applications like consumer electronics, mobile phones or computers, but more typically industrial products. So products where generally the final product has a significantly higher value. The printed circuit board is a small part of the building material. Demands, however, can be very hard in terms of quality and environmental ability to withstand and also even if these our customers in these segments are very quite often large globally leading companies their spend on printed circuit boards is relatively limited and therefore they struggle both to have the internal expertise to manage this commodity but also to even get access to the leading factories and this is an area where we can help them and also by combining the spend of our portfolio of customers we can also get very good terms and and earn the margin on our business We have been going through a quite significant volatile market over the last five years. As you can see, I mean, overall, this is a globally long-term growing PCB market, as you can see in the green bars. We saw a tremendous spike or growth in the market following the pandemic. And we have for a few years been living off the backlash of that where inventories in the supply chain were full of product produced or semi-produced products at our customers and our customers' customers. We are happy to see that in 2025, this is starting to turn around and we can see that growth in our order intake also for the full year coming through and even more so in the fourth quarter. We also have a good mix in our portfolio. We are not biased on any specific segment, but I think we've seen in this year automotive has been one of the segments where there's still been some challenges. Whereas, however, we've seen good continued progress in areas like defense, power and medical applications. We're also handling the geopolitical risks by an increasingly diversified supply base. So we've been continuing to expand our sourcing in Asia outside China and making good progress here. And I think we expect that to continue to grow also in 2026. So coming more closely into Q4, and I think we're very pleased to see that we have good order intake and net sales growth in US dollars. We trade predominantly in US dollars and it's also both the market recovery, but also it's sequentially growth order intake for us during the last three quarters, which is quite positive and not just year over year. um we can see this as a general recovery across all of our regional segments and we see accelerated growth in certain areas or industries like defense medtech and power energy there is to the order intake an impact also here from some early ordering by customers we've seen as the market is growing and expanding especially driven globally by data center applications Lead times are extending and we also see prices going up now at the beginning of 2026 and therefore we also see customers who have the ability to forecast to place early order and that is influencing our order intake growth in the fourth quarter. We estimate that roughly one third of that order intake growth is related to these earlier order placements. Very good recovery in our EBITDA versus 2024 where we had a weak ending of the year. And I think we see here a good recovery despite a strong FX headwind. It's a combination of our gross margin improving sequentially. We are now basically on level where we were in Q4 2024. but really leveraging the growth now to our overhead structures and with that driving better performance in financial EBITDA. Also, M&A activities have continued. We were able to sign and close with Multiteknik here in fourth quarter. Multiteknik Mönsterkort is a Swedish company based in Gothenburg with a main customer base also in Sweden. It's a company that has a long history from 1975, which also included manufacturing, which was ended in 2008. They are mainly focused on industrial applications, automotive, telecom and medical. Revenue in their financial year 24-25 was approximately 110 million SEK, with NVIDIA just below 20 million. And with that comes 15 new employees, of which eight are in Sweden, five in China and two in Lithuania. And the deal was closed on December 19th. Looking then at Q4 in the numbers, we can see that our order intake is up a strong 20% to 1,092,000,000 SEK versus 907 prior year. That equates to 33% organic growth in US dollars and a book to build of 121. Net sales also grew by 9% in Swedish kronor to 902,000,000 versus 830 prior year. And also here we can see the growth now in organic in US dollars of more than 20%. And with EBITDA, our EBITDA increased to 98.6 versus 71.6 prior year. And now we have an EBITDA margin of 10.9 versus 8% of last year. And the gross margin, as can be seen, is equal to prior year, but having improved sequentially during the year. And you can also see our negative impact from FX in the quarter, which was a full 23 million SEC. And we'll elaborate on that a little bit later. Cash flow was at 22 million versus 45 prior year. Our working capital increased a little bit up versus last year, tied partly to the acquisitions, but also due to some temporary changes that we're doing with implementation of our ERP system. Net profit of 53 million versus 41.5 and EPS of 0.28 versus 0.22 last year. So with that, I give the word to you, Tim.

Thanks, Peter. So if we take a look at the full year, we saw order intake increasing 10% to just above 4 billion. We saw a positive book to bill, especially driven by the second half of the year of 1.09%. While sales increased 3.6% to 3.7 billion SEC versus 3.6 billion SEC the year before, when we look at the organic growth, it was actually 5% in US dollars. The EBITDA margin came out for the year at 10.8% versus 12.4% prior year, mostly impacted by an year at 53 million SEC over 20 in Q4 and that's just a result of FX rates being significantly different in quarter one of 2025. Operating cash flow at 287 million SEC impacted a little bit by the temporary increase in working capital in quarter four and then that all contributed to an earnings per share of 1.1 versus 1.36 in the prior year. board of directors has proposed a dividend of 1.1 sec per share. When we take a look a little bit over time at the gross margin, it's nice to see that we're stabilizing at a high level at 35.1% for 2025. It was a little bit weaker than that in the first part of the year and then developed well in the second half. And it's also nice to see the top line starting to grow as well. So when we take a look at it, we see that order intake increased by 20% in the fourth quarter, but actually for comparable units in US dollars, up 33%. And that wasn't just driven by one particular segment. We saw positive development in all segments. Especially so when you look at it in comparative units in US dollars, which is the typical trading currency in our industry. Net sales followed, but still significantly below where the order intake level is. So up 21% in USD, a positive book to build of 1.2. And there's a couple of particular industries to highlight here with a good positive trend in EV charging, as well as continued positive development in aerospace and defense. When we look at EBITDA, that developed well to 99 million sec in the fourth quarter, which is 72 in prior year. The FX was impacted negatively in that quarter by 23 million sec, which influenced the margin from where it would have otherwise been. Gross margin came in at 35.7, which is just a hair below where it was in the prior year, but slightly higher than quarter three. Acquired companies did have a slightly dilutive effect on gross margins. When we take a look and unpack the FX a little bit, I think it's interesting to look at where the US dollar versus the SEP was. 9.4 versus prior year at 10.8. So what that does for us is that impacts our revenue with basically negative 100 million sec on the top line side, which travels directly down to the gross profit side at minus 40. There's a small revaluation effect of minus 3, but most of it is just that pure translation effect at minus 37. Within our SG&A, though, we have a little bit of a negative hedge against that, so that actually boosted the result a little bit with 17, but the overall effect, you can see, is quite strong at minus 27.

Thank you, Tim. Moving over a little bit more in detail in the segments, starting with Nordics, we see again a continuous strong order intake development here with a growth of 24% in Swedish kronor. Here, though, there is some early order placement which further accelerates this growth. The countries with the most significant increases were Denmark, Finland and Norway. Net sales also grew nicely, even though we had significant FX impact in the markets here. And large drivers here are the defense side, but also the EV charging business, which is resuming after having had a low period during the early part of 2025 and later part of 2024. EBITDA amounted to 36.3 million SEC versus 31 in the prior year and the margin came back up north of 15% to 15.9 versus 15.7 and really the result of good leverage on the net growth offsetting the impact of FX in the quarter. Moving over to our largest segment, Europe, the order intake also here increased. It grew by 13% to 483 versus 428. That's an organic growth in the order intake of 5% in Swedish kronor, but 21% in US dollars. And it's a little bit of a mixed development here in the European segment, but clear positive trends in markets like Spain, Benelux and Germany, which are recovering from a weak end of 24. We can also see net sales growing 10% to 400 million SEK versus 365. Organically, the increase is 3% in Swedish kronor and 19% in US dollars. And the industry's tide connected to automotive is still weak, and that is impacting primarily for us regions like UK and Italy, but we see a recovery in most other areas. The EBITDA increased to 34 million SEC versus almost close to zero in end of Q4 2024. And the margin was now 8.5% versus only 1% in 2024. And still there's also here a negative impact from FX and some product mix on margins. North America, a very strong order intake in the North American business. We grew 31% over what was also a little bit of a weaker fourth quarter 2024 order intake wise, but nevertheless, very strong development. We're making good progress with our new product introduction model that we sort of acquired through phase three and are expanding across our US organization. Strong growth also here in defense, but also related to power applications, auxiliary solutions around our data centers. Even if NCAB is not in the high volume data center market, we can still be participating in parts of the auxiliary systems. Net sales are up 4% to 214 and 19% in US dollars and note here again as before tariffs are included in the revenue but are not registered as part of our order intake as the tariffs are only known when we bring the goods into the US market. Our share of China source products supplying for the US is continuing to decrease and it's now in the low 40s percent. EBITDA decreased to 26 million SEC versus 33, a margin of 12.1% versus 16. It's a bit of timing of costs and also adjusting a little bit to the higher pace that we're seeing in the order intake that has impacted the margin in the fourth quarter. East also here a continued positive development. Order intake growing by 32% to 72 million SEC versus 55 last year. Order intake in US dollars up a whole 49%. And we are capitalizing on the growth in high tech. We're leveraging our supply base where customers who may have been buying direct are now starting to get access, but they can have better access to the market through us. But we're also growing with NCAB global customers growing in China. And there's also here some pre-ordering effect that is also helping the numbers. Net sales grew 7% to 59 million SEC, so decreased 7% versus 63. Also here in US dollars down, but it's more timing of business and deliveries in the different quarters. So our EBITDA is down to 7.5 versus 11 and equivalent to still a healthy margin of 12.7% versus a very strong margin of 17.3 in the end quarter of the prior year. And there is some adverse mix here as well in product mix and pricing impacting the margins.

So when we look at the return on equity, we see about 14.3% this year versus around 18.3% last year. Equity fairly stable. You heard a little bit about the FX impacts on the earnings earlier in the call. We just completed an acquisition of Multitechnique and Monster Carts. prior year. Equity to asset ratio at about 40.9 versus 42.7 prior year. Working capital around 9.6% or 376 million sec, a bit higher than this time last year, but you heard a little bit earlier from Peter that we have a bit higher temporary working capital as a result of some of our ERP go lots. Still quite a bit of available liquidity with a little bit over 1.2B sec available and a proposed dividend of 1.1 sec per share.

Very good. So as Tim mentioned, we have a good balance sheet and a lot of dry powder to continue our M&A activity, which is part of our strategy. So we are happy with the two acquisitions we did in 2025 and are continuing to work through our pipeline of both long list and short lists and have a number of good discussions pending or ongoing at this moment. Our model is that we are the integration process is an important part for us and BMB and Multitechnique are now entering our process where the initial phase is very much about sort of getting to know our new friends in greater detail to understand in the areas where they are working differently to ensure that we welcome the new colleagues to our company in a good way as well as reassuring our customers of how we will continue to support them in a good way. Following that, we will then start looking more into synergies of cooperation. How can we work closer in terms of our factory base as well as longer term integration of systems and finance roles? So here we are now in the beginning of the phase and we are continuing, of course, to ideally add further acquisitions to our portfolio. And historically and continuously, we're looking to see roughly half of our growth come through acquisitions over the cycle. and our strategy overall remains firm we are remain 100 focused on printed circuit boards and we're also believing strongly in our asset-like model where we don't invest and own any factories but look to sort of provide superior service and flexibility for our customers so we continue to invest though in technology as well as other services to be able to provide our customers better products and better service and by that grow our market shares in the market where we have a presence We're also looking continuously to expand geographically and we believe that M&A is a good way for us to open up new markets. It is very much a relationship business and getting a first foothold in a new market speeds up that process and then we can add the full value of the NCAB Group to these new markets as we go forward. And we also have in predominantly Europe and North America still a very fragmented market with a large number of smaller trading companies that date back to the 90s or early 2000s when a lot of the manufacturing moved to Asia. Many of these companies have remained regional or local. And as they were started in the 90s, some 20, 30 years ago, many of these companies there's also now a time where they are approaching the succession dilemma and that is also a good opportunity where we can help these companies into the family of ncab and and give them also the strength of access to our full factory portfolio and our factory management organization and with that we conclude our presentation and open up for questions

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Johnny Jin from Seb. Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning, Peter and Timothy. I hope you can hear me. I have a couple of questions. Starting with organic order momentum seems strong here, which is good. And you mentioned both pre-orders, longer lead times and increased PCB prices. So starting with the price here, are there any price effects showing in Q4 orders at all? And secondly, what sort of magnitude of the price increase can we expect here at the beginning of 2026?

yeah thank you for your question and uh i mean i think we don't really we do see very minor impact of pricing on on q4 i think prices are really coming into effect here in beginning of 2026 so these predominantly earlier ordering if anything in in in the q4 impact And the magnitude, I mean, here is a little bit volatile and it varies quite differently between different technologies because you have some which are very gold heavy and then you see significant price increases. And in some areas you see more reduced. But it's a combination right now of both capacity utilization, which is driving price increases, as well as commodities. And it's commodity on gold, metals, but also even the laminate material. So I think we are estimating that the average price increase is in the order of 10%. and therefore we expect probably say in Q4 we're going to see some positive impact of pricing but then you're going to see the detraction from the pre-ordering and on revenue we don't expect really to see impact on revenue more maybe more pronounced in the second half of 25 if this continues say 26 sorry yeah so 10% on average did I catch that correctly yeah it's in that order of magnitude okay yeah that's clear

And then a question here on the price. I mean, are there any margin impact for you at all from the higher PCB prices? Because as capacity utilization gets up and need times longer, and then your prioritized deliveries get more important, so I suppose your value to customers also becomes more important as well. So do you think you can increase your prices more than the increase of the input prices, or how should you view that on the margin?

I think we believe, and if you look back in our historic history, when we have seen significant price increases in the market, if you go back, say, to 21 or at that time when we started to see price increases, I think we've been quite good at keeping across margins. But I think we're also taking care of our customers in a good way that for us, I think it's more an opportunity where actually maybe we can see growth because I think a number of customers right now with poor lead times or lead times extending, that could actually be an opportunity where we at NCAB sometimes can have better opportunities to have stronger priority with the factories and maybe more see that as an opportunity of gaining market share as opposed to sort of driving margins further up. I think we've been good at managing, keeping margins with that growth.

Yeah, understood. Then moving to lead times there, can you try to please help us understand how much longer lead time we could expect? I mean, if you look at historical patterns on order conversion patterns, for instance, historically here in Q1, it's sort of an average above 100% conversion on orders. Could that move below 100% now in Q1, or what is the reasonable assumption there?

Yeah, I think, I mean, historically, I think you could, I mean we have a large variety of orders and I think in history we've had kind of on average you've had almost like a quarter delay from order to revenue and I think now we're looking more like five six months maybe in some of these areas so I think it's crept up at least one to two months in terms of lead time from what you would normally see on the average and it's I guess it's a little bit of a combination of say lead times and maybe some larger longer orders as well which also impact this so I think a large portion of the excess orders that we've seen in Q4 will spread over several quarters in 26.

Okay, understood. And then just one final one from my side, if I may. And that is on the order growth intake. I mean, you mentioned that one-third is pre-buy. My question there is, was that driven by a few number of customers only? And then the rest here, two-thirds of the growth, how much would you say is existing customers and inventory normalization versus you taking on new customers? And what sort of is the pipeline visibility here of the new customer entering the new year?

I'd say on the pre-ordering side, I mean, you have a few things maybe which is more impacting. I think we also have some cases where we have one larger customer, for instance, where we're making some factory shifts and that causes them to place bigger orders. But actually, you see that pattern across where customers have good visibility. We've been working with them to sort of help them understand and understand what kind of level of price increase are we seeing. And we've been negotiating with the factories to sort of give our customers room to react as well. So there is a little bit across many of our markets that we have seen this impact. I'd say, I mean, on the basic order intake, I mean, if you look back in US dollars, our order intake was We were up 8% in Q2 order intake, while we were 14% up organically in Q3. And now we are, say, 33%. So maybe you take it out around 10%, maybe. So maybe we're now north of 20% organically. So it's a clear progression of the order intake growth. And I think it's a combination of Both growth in a couple of segments, but I think it's also the impact of inventory having come out of the system. I think that is actually something that we can see in some of the segments like EV charging, where they were very much, they already actually started to have outbound sales growth during the earlier parts of 25, but we only start to see the orders started to grow after the summer, really.

Okay, understood. That was all for me. Have a great day. Thank you.

The next question comes from Jacob Edler from Danske Bank. Please go ahead.

Hi, Tim and Peter, and thanks for taking my questions. I have just one on Nordics to start with. I mean, you've had a pretty significant buildup of the order intake in the Nordics segment since the start of 24. think if you kind of look at it accumulated you know orders relative to revenue there's a kind of a 20 million us dollar backlog here um how much of that mainly i guess defense aerospace um backlog can you can we expect you to deliver in 26 relative to to further out so to speak i'm not sure if we have a number of that we can give around but i mean there is a significant portion of some of those uh say specifically say defense orders which also run into 27.

So I think there is a non-significant part that actually also belongs in 27. It's not all going to be in 26.

The lead times tend to be in the 12- to 24-month timeline for these.

Sorry, I heard you a bit poor there, Tim.

No, I was just saying that the lead times tend to be in the 12- to 24-month timeframe for these.

Yeah, yeah, perfect. Okay, just a question on the Europe segment, Dan. I mean, you mentioned that industrial demand is improving in some of the core countries here, including, you know, Germany. Even though, I guess, you know, PMIs haven't skyrocketed during the quarter, would you say that the development is mainly driven by, you know, inventory replenishment and that inventory levels have reached kind of bottom levels and are now bouncing a bit, or how should we read it?

Yeah, I think that, as you say, I mean, I think German economy is not by any means, say, booming, but I think it's recovering. I think we're starting to see the signs of it recovering. And the effect of, say, inventory reductions diminishing is helping to see our numbers normalize as well.

Yeah, perfect. And then just a question, I guess, on automotive and UK, Italy, you know, also has been a drag for quite a while here. Would you say the trend is kind of somewhat stabilizing sequentially? And when do we kind of reach the point where we're kind of washing out the comps here, if you get my question?

Yeah, I think to some extent it has been stabilizing over, say, partly during the second half of 2025 on the automotive side. If you follow the reporting from the truck manufacturers, I think they start to show some positive order intake numbers now in the US market, which I think was the initial really big drag on the truck industry. Right now, we don't see signs of things getting worse, but maybe actually there are some indicators that would indicate that this market will start to recover.

Very good. And then I just have maybe a last question, just on North America, how much of the, how much was related to the tariffs, you know, offsets, the price increases on tariffs here in Q4, the increase was 19% in US dollars year over year. Are you able to add any more flavor there?

We don't give out exact on tariffs in North America, but it was a fair portion.

Okay, perfect. Thank you so much for your answers. Thank you.

The next question comes from Thomas Blixted from Pareto Securities. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Just a question on the dividends from my side here. 1.1 is quite a large payout ratio. And just wondering if you could give some flavor on the rationale behind it in terms of market outlook, visibility, cash flow, M&A possibilities, and so forth. Thank you.

yeah okay i'm happy to do so i mean you know our dividend policy is to basically give out available cash uh during last year we decided to pull back on our dividend basically we were at the time of approaching our decision or our q4 release we or q1 we had the we the Liberation Day in the US, which caused a lot of anxiety. And at that time, we also we had BNB in the pipeline and we actually also expected that maybe that we could close multi technique already before the summer. And with that, we saw a payout of dividend that we had originally proposed, plus these two acquisitions that would put pressure if the market would have declined more than the market actually did. So in that time frame, we decided to put back on the on the dividend. since then you could say the market has not done as badly as we could potentially fear we have also generated quite a bit of cash flow over the period of time and we have also refinanced the company during before the summer of last year which also gives us more headroom on our covenants so with that we exit the year with a very strong balance situation and we find it's fine that we can actually then maybe give back some of the things that we did not do last year

Thank you. That's great. And just a quick follow-up on the pre-buying trend. Are you seeing the same development here in January, February, or was this more of a 2025 trend?

I think we could see that the lead times really grew in Q4. So the lead time aspect already started to be sort of impacting then. I think it's not really changed that much in the beginning of after the year. And the price pre-buy effect was more related to before the year. We don't see further pre-buy impacts right now. If anything, we probably might see a bit of a backlash on order intake than in Q1 from the fact that we had pre-ordering in Q4.

Thank you. That's all from me.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Gustav Bernebled from Nordia. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning. It's Gustav here from Nordia. Just maybe just to come back here to the early part of the Q&A regarding your gross margin guidance that you have sort of given with, you know, stating 35, 36% should still be, you know, something we should expect longer term. Do you see any hesitancy in regards to this margin guidance? You comment on maybe looking a bit more at growth here.

No, not really. I mean, I think like Peter said, I mean, if you look at us historically, we've been able to handle both price increases in the market and price decreases in the market in a fairly good way and in good cooperation with our customers. We try to make these type of partnerships sort of over the long term. They'll always be a quarter or two here or there, a little bit like you saw in early 25, where we're adapting to new circumstances. But I mean, if you look at it over the medium or long term, no, I think that's still where we expect to be. Thank you.

That's perfect. And then just one clarification. I mean, when you take these pre-orderings, are there any risk to these orders in terms of cost inflation or that may cause, you know, lower profitability looking a few quarters out?

When we take these pre-orderings, what we're doing is we're lining them up back to back with factory pricing. So it would be unusual, not impossible, but unusual for there to be a margin impact.

I mean, the only area where we sometimes can be exposed more is in kind of freight costs, which are more volatile and can change. And that is where we can sometimes get some volatility. But on product pricing, as you said, Tim, it's back to back with the factory. So there's a tie between those orders and deliveries.

Okay, that's very clear. And just in terms of these pre-ordering, just also a bit of a clarification. Just wondering if there is a risk that you are undermining the market or if you're underestimating the magnitude of these pre-orderings, is there a risk to that? Or do you have very good visibility of exact what are pre-orderings and what are not?

No, actually, in this case, I think we have a pretty high degree of confidence on the pre-ordering. I think one of the nice things with a lot of the investments that we've been making in our ERP over the past couple of years is that we have quite good visibility into which customers and which reasons this comes from. So no, I think we have a fairly good handle on it.

That's great. And then on your topic there, ERP, I mean, you should have gone live in Sweden and Norway right this quarter. Is there a negative impact from the IT rollout in the Nordic segment this quarter?

Now, not particularly a negative impact in the Nordic side. Actually, even if going live with these ERPs is a little bit of a struggle in the first couple of weeks and months, I think both Norway and Swedish teams handled it in a really good, really professional way. So I think there was actually less business impact than we feared there might be. And at this point now, we're 75% of the way of the company loaded into the new ERP. So all of the large go-lives are actually behind us. So now we have three smaller entities in 2026 to go with, which are significantly less risky than the ERP countries that we went live with in 2025. So actually, it's a comforting feeling going into 26 with the roadmap that we have. The one disturbance that we did see in the quarter, which Peter commented on a little bit earlier in the call, was on the working capital side. So we just have a few issues to work through with how we use the system to make sure that we're doing invoicing in the most optimal way so we can collect accounts receivables from our customers at the normal pattern. We expect to recover that in the next one to two quarters.

That's very clear. One last question here from my side. You also comment on the lower inventory levels supporting particular Europe here. What you're hearing in the market, is that the inventory levels are still on low levels in general or are you seeing that normalization occurring right now?

I think from our perspective it's not been that they've been super low, it's more that they were historically always high and I think now the fact that we are seeing orders pick up is maybe not that they're building up orders but I think that they need to start ordering again. So I don't think we see customers gearing up and building inventory right now. I think it's more the fact that actually they are running out of old inventory and therefore it kind of restarts the cycle of production in a great deal.

Okay, that's very clear. Thank you very much for taking my questions.

Thank you. Thank you.

As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. There are no more phone questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments.

So we have two questions written here. The first one is from Johan, and he asks, how do you view the current high demand and price trend within the more advanced PCBs, say for high density interconnect HDIs and other advanced AI application? How is your exposure to these more high tech segments and are there spillover effects in terms of factory utilization, price levels and so forth?

Yeah, this is a good question and it's very much the case. I think what we see is that even if we are not directly supplying to the high volume data center applications, it is creating sort of ripple effects through the industry. And a number of the applications where we are also working with these high tech technologies is seeing that increased workload because there is a kind of spillover where those factories who are directly focused on data centers, they are forced to sort of move other production out to the other kind of manufacturers. So this is creating part of what is driving lead times, also of course driving price increases from these factories who are now very fully utilized. But it also creates opportunities because I mean, NCAB, we have very strong relationships with our partner factories. We are generally between 10 to 20% of their turnover. And that means that we still have good priority and it actually becomes an opportunity for customers who are struggling to get access, to find access through NCAB.

Great. And the second question comes from Carlos Moreno, and he's asking, it's amazing that diversification of suppliers means moving from China to Taiwan. Can you find price quality suppliers anywhere else in the world? And what do the defense companies do? Must be a great time to set up a factory in India, etc.

Yeah, our activities, of course, growing here is not only in Taiwan. Taiwan happens to be our largest non-Chinese region in the market. We are also developing business in Korea, Malaysia, Thailand as well. And I think there is where we see a lot of growth happening as well. India, maybe not so much for the kind of technologies and qualities that our customers are demanding, but a lot of activity in the whole of Southeast Asia and beyond what we currently see in terms of orders or revenue through these factories in 25. If you look upon the activity of sampling validation activities, there's a lot of activity outside these markets.

So that was the last question we had. So I just would like to thank you and remind you that our first quarter report for 26 is on 23rd April. So very welcome back.