Nederman Holding AB (publ)

be in listen-only mode. During the questions and answers session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing pound key 5 on their telephone keypad. Now I will hand the conference over to speakers CEO Sven Kristensen and CFO Matthew Cusick. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much and good morning everybody. Welcome to this conference call on Nerman Group's Q4 Concluding that we had a solid profitability and a very strong cash flow during the last year, we have also strengthened our position in a very uncertain macro environment. We have improved our market position in what we can call structurally growing industry, food, batteries, other different technologies. We have made significant investments in manufacturing and logistics. To enhance efficiency, we have opened a complete new facility for Robovent in US in Detroit. We have extended significantly the capacity Thomasville for dark and filter. We have increased our capacity also in MCT and we are continuously doing so. We have the inauguration of Helsingborg's new facility which gives us a very good distribution, logistics and manufacturing capability, but above all an innovation center that could be the center for 14 local hubs with the competent centers around the world. So we have accelerated our innovation and that means that we have also accelerated the pace of product releases and upgrades. So a relatively small but strategically important acquisition of Olisem that will further strengthen our MCT division with the capability of in an efficient way help our customers with them collecting the information and sorting it and being able to, in an efficient way, use the information as well as create reports for different authorities, etc. When it comes to shareholders' favorite subject, dividend, we have had the highest ever net profit. So the board of directors proposed a dividend of Swedish krona of four compared to 3.95 last year.

If I move on to some of the key financials for the quarter and the full year, if we start with orders received, it was a little bit of a varied scenario between the divisions. We will come back to the divisions in detail a little bit later. For the consolidated group, the quarter four order intake was just over 1.4 billion Swedish kronor, which is a decrease of around 4.8% currency neutral versus quarter four of 2023. You can see from the charts on the slide number four that the large chunk of the decline is organic. Currency is having much less effect during 2024 overall than in previous years. than in the prior year. Orders received, yeah, 1.4 billion for the quarter. It is the lowest quarter we've had for some time. And we'll come back to the backlog being a little lower going into 2025 than it was into 2024. Full year, incoming orders were 5.78 billion Swedish kronor versus very slightly over 6 billion Swedish kronor for the full year of 2023. That's a currency neutral decrease of 3.3%. When it comes to sales, this was a very strong quarter for Nerdman. It was our second highest sales quarter ever. All four divisions increased versus the same quarter in 2023. In total, we did 1.62 billion in sales in quarter four versus 1.501 billion in 2023 Q4. That's a currency neutral growth of 7.6%. For the full year, we... achieved exactly 5.9 billion Swedish kronor these numbers have been audited so it isn't us just looking at decimal points we get to 6.1 that's versus 6.188 last year so it is a clear reduction if we see the organic reduction is 319 million if you look at the chart on the bottom right of slide five Of course, anyone who's deeply into the number sees the vast majority of the decrease is in the much more volatile process technology division, which we will come back to later on as well. When it comes to profitability, it's no longer a teaser, but we had our best profit after tax ever. But if we start a little bit higher up and look at our adjusted EBITDA, that was 185 million in quarter four, 185 million Swedish kronor in quarter four of 2024, up from 172 million, which gave us a margin of 11.4%, which was exactly in line with Q4 last year. Profit after tax 10 million Swedish kronor higher at 87 million SEK and earnings per share in the quarter 2.49 Swedish kronor versus 2.2 in Q4 2023. For the full year, we were up at 708 million Swedish kronor EBITDA. That's very slightly down from 2023. Margin up 12% now versus 11.6% in 2023. And earnings per share now for the full year, 983 versus 971. So we're pleased to continue the upwards trend there. And Sven already mentioned that following that increase in earnings per share, the board has proposed a dividend increase to four Swedish kronor. Sven also mentioned the cash flow was very, very strong. We've had a very good year overall and quarter four in particular was very good. We've continued our focus on managing cash flow. It doesn't just happen on its own. We remain managing our accounts receivable very well, and we have had projects in subdivisions to try and maintain and actually decrease the levels of inventory held. So among other things, those are contributors to the fact that we had a 245 million positive cash flow from operations in Q4, up from 212 million, which was very strong already in 2023. The net debt, as we can see on the right side of slide number seven, that is now at 1.697 billion Swedish kronor versus 1.332 million SEK 12 months previously. Must be pointed out that that increase is completely connected to one of my least favorite international financial reporting standards, IFRS 16, which relates to leasing. As you can see on the charts, the proportion of debt that related to leasing increased significantly in Q3 when we went into the new premises in Helsingborg and Robben's Detroit site as well. But we see a clear decrease in debt. We've had a very good cash flow and that's meant that we've decreased debt versus 12 months ago. If we now move on to the divisions and we start with extraction and filtration technology.

Yes, extraction filtration technology, as you probably remember, is our largest division and it typical customers are wood welding, compositing, manufacturing, general dust application. Here we have seen as well as in PT we come to that the large orders has been fewer in the quarter and We attribute that all to the uncertainty in the market. That's a good pipeline, but there is a hesitation to take decision. When it comes to upgrade aftermarket product sales or mid-size solution, which is more In business as usual, we can see that we have an increase and we see here that we take market share. The backlog was good when we went into Q4, so we had a good invoicing in the quarter. So it was the highest sales ever for a single quarter, which is important. Again, which I mentioned, the aftermarket continued to perform strong. It's been a focus over the last few years to further enhance and build our aftermarket organization. If you look at the different regions, it was only U.S. that had any large orders. One was from the newly acquired DoWire. and the others was Robovent. It was welding and EV batteries. When it comes to European side, we had a stable order intake and it was a solid base business. And mentioned before, none, no really large order. We've seen wood related to mainly the construction industry and the automotive. We've seen uncertainty in the decision making. We have seen bit lower demand in some markets and especially i would say not only including but especially germany uh they are not we can see all the indicators industrial indicators that they are a bit depressed in the german market we'll see it went up slightly the last month so we'll see We increased our order intake in Asia, APAC. Not big orders, but midsize orders, defense, food, automotive, the normal suspects. We do saw also that our activities in building a stronger sales organization in Southeast Asia is paying off a little bit here now. We have also seen some activities in the division in India where we actually landed a significant order to a leading aircraft equipment supplier. So again, the key activities relocation of offices and warehouse to new facilities in Helsingborg and installation start of new warehouse management system. It's gone extremely well and we have now a fully modern operational manufacturing and distribution center. We did launch some new filters. Well, the model of filter system MFS with non fiber significant improvement in performance. We have launched six upgraded versions of mobile HIVAC and ATEX models that are used. The ATEX is something that you are using especially in combustible dust environments. And we also launched a new pack and bag community in North America. So there's been activities all around for innovation, manufacturing and moving forward.

Going for the financials for extraction and filtration technology, the order intake decreased currency neutrally by 1.5%. 643 million was where they ended the quarter. Total sales, as we mentioned, a record quarter ever. 724 million is 5% higher than a very strong quarter of 2023. Adjusted EBITDA also up accordingly. 12.7% is 92 million Swedish kronor. And for the full year, Organic growth on order intake, very slightly negative, but currency neutral 1.4% up. Total sales, 3% currency neutral increase to 2.646 billion Swedish kronor and the highest ever adjusted EBITDA for the division, 352 million kronor is 13.3%. Then we move on to process technology, Sven.

Yeah, here, as you know, we are working, we are world leader in textile. We are world leader in smelters for recycling of material like lead, like aluminum, like steel, et cetera. And it's mainly large orders, large supplies. And we've seen few major orders There's been a continuing uncertainty in the market and the slowdown in some of the cyclical industries. We did have fewer orders received this Q4 than the very strong Q4 in 2023. We did have an increased sales invoicing because we delivered a final delivery of several major projects. if we go to the three different customer categories started with textile and fiber that's a continuous overcapacity in spinning mill and there has been a low demand so we were behind q4 2023 We have a long term positive outlook. We have a market leading. We have a definitely market leading offer with our digitalization, new product and also where we have started to get a strong position in the related nonwoven area. So We continue to take market position and we've seen the energy saving new fan system that we launched at ITMA 2023 has now sold more than 200 units. So we are making the world a little bit better in the textile industry by saving energy. In foundry and smelters, there's an underlying recycling trend, and that is very positive. We need to recycle more aluminum, lead, et cetera, and that will have a long-term positive impact. However, the orders received decreased when only one very large order a year ago was launched. We have had very strong project execution and that means that we have a solid increase and solid profitability. Customized solutions orders received increased including orders from the US chemical sector. Sales were lower than same quarter last year. Again, key activity, launch of new sensor packages and digital analyzed tools for filtration system that improves the possibility to optimize operation, extend the equipment service life. We have intensified development of remote monitoring and IoT based business models, and by that unlocking new revenue streams from the service and aftermarket. Very important in this turbulent time where we have a steady flow of orders in upgrades and service to existing equipment. We have invested new sandblasting paint line in the German plant, and that is giving increased production capacity and lower manufacturing costs, increasing our capability of being competitive in this market.

As Sven mentioned, orders received were lower in the quarter, so 23% lower currency neutral than the same quarter last year is 368 million Swedish kronor. Sales, however, slightly higher than the same quarter last year, 3.4% up, which took us to 452 million, and a beta then increased in the quarter four versus the same quarter. quarter 12 months ago, 50 million in a beta is 11.1%, which is very, very strong for that division. What you can see on the chart on the top right hand side is maybe for those of you who don't fill in a spreadsheet every time we release any financials, you can is makes it a little easier to follow how the backlog has developed for the for the division. And we can see it is a little lower than it's lower than it's been for any time in the last couple of years. However, it is still well over 800 million Swedish Krona mark. For the full year, the financials for the division, 19% reduction in order intake and a 22% reduction in sales. That is significantly down. Profitability, the margin increased, however, to 11% from 9.7% and 182 million Corona in adjusting the beta for this division in these economic conditions is still something that they can be proud of. If we move on to duct and filter technology, Sven.

Yeah, duct and filter here, we supply ducts and filter media. And the development during the quarter has been very good. There has been a strong improvement in orders received. We received several large orders from manufacturers of EV batteries in the U.S. market. But we also in EMEA and APAC had higher orders received compared to the same quarter 2023. The sales, the invoice sales increased also very well and full year 2024 saw new records in orders received, sales and profitability increased. So if we go to Nordfam, the duct manufacturing, orders and sales in the U.S. grew strongly compared with the other quarter that we compared with in 2023. We had three very large orders to battery manufacturing. Nordfam now, with delivery within 24 hours, continue to drive orders volumes in U.S. We have installed new pipe cutter in Thomasville. Robots for the warehouse automation are being configured and go live during February. And in Menard we had a slightly lower order intake, but we had sales on a solid level and again, very good profitability. other activities uh beam objects we have introduced that and it was presented at the battery trade show in barcelona and we have so far already got 7 000 downloads since the launch in may several projects have been initiated based on this so again Digitalization working together with other suppliers is a way forward for us and a way working we have embraced over the last few years. Project is underway for a 2400 square meter extension of the production and warehouse facility for ducting in Thomasville. Construction is scheduled to commence in February 2025. And if you remember, we have already increased one part and that's where we are now introducing the robot in the distribution center but we're now also extending the capabilities when it comes to large size ductwork especially for EV batteries but also for especially like smelters, foundries, etc. So we are becoming more and more a complete supply of ductwork for demanding environments.

When it comes to financials for this division, as Sven has already hinted at, they were very good into fourth quarter. 15% currency neutral growth in order intake to 211 million Swedish kronor. 13% increase in sales took us to 229 million kronor and that left the That led to an adjusted EBITDA of 38 million Swedish kronor versus 35 in a strong Q4 last year. 38 million gave us 16.5% EBITDA margin. For the full year, 5.7% growth in order intake and 6.8% growth in sales. 893 million kronor in revenue for the full year, up from 839 in 2023. And the adjusted beta for the year that's just finished was 175 million Swedish kronor or 19.6%. Monitoring and control technology, Sven.

Yes. We increased the orders received, and especially GASMET saw a strong demand in Asia Pacific, especially in China. We have a large opening order backlog that contributed to record sales for a single quarter. If we go to the regions, EMEA, We had a slight increase in orders received and EMEA was the strongest region in terms of sales due in part to the improved production capacity in neon monitors. In Asia, orders received increased sharply in Asia. We had a strong development for Guzman. A large number of orders were booked as I said, mainly in China. Sales in APEC grew as a result of Gussman's successful deliveries. A lot of the new developed products have gone into the market. In America, orders received decreased somewhat due mainly to timing of major orders. 2023, we had one extremely big, for the division, big order and that was not fully compensated for in 2024. But there are high performance on all three business units, and we have had increased sales for the quarter. The key activities for the quarter has been, among others, the acquisition of OLSM, and that specialize in measurement and mission reporting. So we're not only measuring We are now able to help our customers do a good reporting out of the collected information. We have inaugurated the China Technical Center in Suzhou with product, service, and sales training. But it also gives us the possibility not having to send all products back to Norway or to Helsinki when there's service and upgrades having to be done. we believe that will further enhance our sales in the Chinese market. We have continued our investment to increase the Neumont's manufacturing capacity and it's still ongoing and will be so for the coming two quarters. We are preparing the launch of next generation of Insight product from our operational technology center and we are also preparing to increase our capabilities and manufacturing sites in our AFS part of the business located in Boston.

Financials for monitoring and control technology. Order intake grew strongly, 10.5% versus Q4 2023. It took us to 187 million Swedish kronor in sales, 19.3% up. Sven mentioned it was the strongest, a record quarter, 241 million in sales, led to an adjusted beta of 47 million kronor, or 19.5%. For the full year, currency neutral growth in orders 10.7%, sales even increased even more, 13.2%. Sales of 824 million led to an adjusted EBITDA of 144 million, which is 17.4% for the year. So the outlook, Sven.

Yes, as said before, it's not easy in... these times it's never easy to have an idea on the future especially not in these times but if we take it short term of all the backlog is going into 2025 with a solid strong battle block but it's lower than 12 months ago if we look at the external factors including geopolitical economic uncertainty increased protectionist It is impacting customers' investment decisions and we will probably have some turbulence the coming two quarters. But even if the performance of our divisions is largely positive, there is a risk that these external factors will continue to impact customers' investment decisions in the coming quarters. If we look at the long term, our base business and strong digital range enable us to assert ourselves well in the current market. We've seen that. We are taking market share. Neroma have shown a clear ability to increase sales in industries with solid structural growth. Even if industrial investment level could be temporarily dampened, the long term potential remains. And in a world with growing insight into the damage that poor air does to people, Nerma, with its leading industrial air filtration rank, has a key role to play and good possibilities for continued growth.

Just very briefly, the financial calendar for upcoming quarters. The annual report will be released on the 18th of March this year. So the 2024 annual report released on the 18th of March. The quarter one report for 2025 will be released on the 25th of April. four days before the annual general meeting, which is on the 29th of April here at our new Helsingborg premises. The interim report for quarter two will be released on the 15th of July and the quarter three report will come out on the 23rd of October 2025. And with that, I think we can now open up for any questions that people listening may have.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Johnny Jin from CB. Please go ahead.

Yes, thank you and good morning Sven and Matthew. Thank you for taking my question. I want to start a little bit on the demand side of things. And you mentioned that Europe and EMEA is on the softer side. I'm just wondering if you could elaborate here how the demand looked during the quarter. How was the situation in October, November and then December? And then also if you could say something about how January was. Was it a normal January so to say or Was it anything that stood out? Can you comment something around that?

Thank you. In the fourth quarter, I don't think we can say that there was a big change throughout the quarter. It was a little slow. December, perhaps, was one behind expectations, and we ended up 1.4 billion in order intake. We would have liked to have been... a few tens of millions of Swedish kronor higher than that. So that did slow down. When it comes to January, we don't want to talk too much about what's happening in the future, but I think our take on January is probably very similar to what you're hearing everywhere else around the world. Anything to add on January, Sven?

It's more normal and more effective. What you can see is that the turbulence that is created by all kinds of... games played uh of course create an uncertainty and that will have an impact and you've seen that that the large orders are you have a prolonged discussion and decision period whereas the other business is going as normal i would say i think that's the most important comment here the the underlying business is still reasonably solid uh it's the larger orders that are are dragging at the moment

Okay, thank you. That was helpful. And then going into sales a little bit, the growth is obviously strong here in the quarter, but looking at the EBITDA margin, it's flat. So could you comment something around that? And also going into 2025, I understand that outlook is uncertain, but in a scenario where volumes come back, can we expect an upside on the margin from here? Or is that fair to assume, would you say?

If I comment on the quarter, what we can say is there was a clear shift. Yes, it was a very good revenue quarter. And you're right in terms of absolute margin. It wasn't in percentage terms margin. It wasn't a big increase. That is to do with it. It's always the easiest answer, but it is a mix. We did and we were flagging for this a little in extraction and filtration technology. They had more solutions business, which has a slightly lower margin. We were also still, if we take, for example, the Helsingborg site, we were moving from one site to another. So we were with two premises and all of the costs that are associated with that. When it comes to looking forwards and if you see an uptick in the revenue, then the answer to your question is yes, you ought to see an increase in margin very clearly. We work with customer pricing, of course, but the main thing is our efficiency in our own operations ought to be clearly better. And we can see this already. We have a better flow through the factory in Helsingborg. the one in Thomasville in the US for ducting, and then in Robovent up in Detroit as well. There's clear synergies. For example, Robovent was three sites that was moved on to one and with a good solid production flow. It makes things... In Helsingborg was two production sites. We were driving back and forth across the road with trucks and we were working in a site that was perhaps not optimal given that it had roots from 80 years ago. Now we have a brand new site designed in the way that we want it to with a layout that we want. So yes, you ought to see improvements in profitability there.

I think it's fair also to say that with all the activities, both Thomasville, Helsingborg, US, there has been some extra costs. Also, you have near monitors, not relocation, but extension and so on. So we have invested in efficiency during the last six months.

Thank you. That was clear. And then just one final one from my side, and I want to zoom in a little bit on the duct and filter segment. Looks like the beta margin there took a step down here in the quarter, both year-on-year and sequentially. Can you elaborate a little bit there to help us understand, so to speak, this a little bit better, and then how we should view the duct and filter margin going forward? I also noticed that you mentioned some large orders on the battery side there. And if you could say something about the margin profile on those orders as well, would be helpful. Thank you.

yeah what you can say is that duct and feel if you talk about the we're talking mainly about the ducting here is where the the big change in margin is we've we've seen an improvement on the on the filter side actually in margin despite revenues going down we've driven margins up a little bit and that's to do with a little bit in smaller improvements in operations when it comes to duct and filter there there is a finite amount of of what you could call base business smaller projects then you come up into these these very interesting areas like EV battery plants. And these EV battery plants involve more different types of ducting, different sizes of ducting, some heavy gauge ducting, as well as the regular quick fit ducting. The overall projects and those in percentage terms are somewhat lower than other business that's done by ducting. But clearly on the bottom line of beta, I always like to say we don't pay dividends out of percentages, you pay it out of money. And we're looking to increase the bottom line. Nevertheless, there are still things that we think we can do better in duct and filter. And this is why, for example, we're investing it more into the factory there to be able to improve the efficiency in the production of, is actually largely related to the heavy gauge ducting this time round. Sven, anything to add to that? No, I don't think so. No. There's more to come if we handle this successfully in the further development of the operations in Thomasville.

Okay. Sounds interesting. Thank you for taking my question. That was all from me. Thank you.

The next question comes from Lena Bloom from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead.

Yes, Lena Bloom from Handelsbanken here. Thank you, Sven and Matthew, for taking my questions as well. My first question is related to order intake that came in slightly below what was reported in Q4 last year. And you mentioned that the order backlog is somewhat lower in the beginning of 2025 compared to the end of last year. um or beginning of uh of 2024 how should we interpret this in terms of sales development for the first half of 2025 and it is it is particularly in process technology where we might see lower sales development or maybe also in extraction and filtration technology

If we talk backlog going into the new year, into 2025, the majority of the drop versus 12 months previously is process technology. That is the vast majority of that. In terms of sales, that process technology is is they have that we have a good recurring business and we've grown the aftermarket business very nicely now. And you see that that's what you see when you see the margins really going up is a more aftermarket business, sometimes more profitable projects. What we could say about the the backlog going into this year into this year, it's a little bit different in nature in that the fiber and textile business typically has slightly lower margins than the other two business units in there. And based on current backlog, our anticipation is that of the sales in the first part of the year, we will have a probably a lower portion of fiber and textile. I'll let you read into that. What do you what do you think? Extraction and filtration technology. I don't know if you want to add any more. But they were still they were lacking a few large orders. There are some great lots of quotations out there, but they were still lacking some larger orders as well. But you see, even if it was down versus quarter four of 2023, extraction and filtration technology was not too bad on the order intake and quite a strong base business. There is going to be some volatility and there is gonna be some delays on decisions, but there are lots of interesting projects out there.

I would put it like this, that there is a very strong pipeline in the divisions. The turbulence makes it very difficult to say that it will happen this week, next week, or in three months' time when the decision is taken. I doubt that there will be a situation where we will not see a continuous demand, but the geopolitical and macroeconomic situation, it's so volatile, people are so nervous and thinking about should we do it now or should we wait? It's a little bit almost like should I stay or should I go now? It's what they are doing. So I can't say, but we have a very strong pipeline. So having said that, I think we will have a roller coaster ride the coming two quarters.

Perfect, thank you. And a bit of a follow-up on the comments on market volatility. Your outlook appears to be more cautious compared to previous quarters. I believe that you have had a cautiously optimistic outlook in the last couple of quarters compared to the short-term uncertainty that was mentioned in today's report. Should we interpret this as the outlook being currently not as good as it has been previously, or how should we interpret this?

No, I don't think so. Maybe we thought it quite boring to have the same sentence every quarter. We are still cautiously optimistic because we see that our new office, as you have seen, we are launching new products. We are receiving interest from our customers. We are releasing products that are significantly saving energy in line with all the needs for the future. So we are optimistic in that sense. What is disturbing is, of course, the turmoil you see around the world. Are they going to be tariffs? Are they not? The total effect is not going to be that significant anyway. But again, uncertainty creates a situation where we don't know when decisions will come. So that's what we mean. We are still very optimistic in our position in the market because we have the leading product. Although, if I go back to the small acquisition of Oliveshem makes another statement, we are the only We are the full cleaner company, the only one that can capture, filter, measure and also create the report for our customers. We are the cleaner company. We've seen a continuous growing interest for our strong offers. then timing is worse than ever, I would say, in what's going to happen here. But we are very positive when it comes to the pipeline we have. So, yeah, if you want to put it that way, I would say we are cautiously optimistic for the future. It was a long answer, Lina.

That sounds good. It was helpful to get some more color on that. Thanks. And then another question. You frequently mentioned EV batteries as a key growth area in this report. However, there has been some concerns about price pressure in that industry. Are you experiencing any increased competition in the EV battery space? And have you seen any indications of slowdown of demand in that space?

We are very late in that since it's been mainly, it's been in some of the manufacturing, but very much it's the ductwork. We've supplied some filters. We haven't seen it. It's been mainly in the US. We've been active here and got these. And so far we haven't seen an enormous downturn, but there are some revision of them. ford had that six months ago revision of some of their investments etc but it's not only easy batteries that what what why we say it's interesting but what happened is that we have through battles which are large plants we have come into the uh specifiers and with beam objects and with our solid performance in delivering, we have been considered a reliable partner for large installation. So we believe and we have already seen it that that will also spill over to other areas like large smelters large foundries where we have a solid position with pt's deliverance and we we see that we are now becoming more and more known in the specifiers side and that includes our our own dimensioning tools that makes life easier it includes linking up to beam objects etc so again make it easier to do business with narrowman and we have by being so successful in either batteries in u.s

shown that we can handle larger projects was that an understandable explanation yes perfect thank you very much and then maybe if i may one last question from from me um monitoring and control technologies are strong water growth in apac and particularly in china could you provide some

details on demand dynamics in china what is driving this growth there is a demand for a measurement technology there are rules regulation it goes from everything i'm measuring hydro content it is about all kind of specific areas. And we are not the only, but very few that can measure to a level that some of the new requirements demand. And they're not really Chinese. Yeah, they are Chinese competitors, but we have a situation where we are absolute technology leaders and that helps us so we have growth with a newly developed and newly launched recently launched product both in jasmine and neo and we are now helping and supporting that because one of the weaknesses we haven't especially have had is that service is something that could be, it takes time if you have to ship the equipment to Norway or to Finland for service. Now we have opened up the capabilities and we are continuing to train personnel and strengthen their position here in Suchu as we have done in the US market where we two and a half years ago opened up our service office in Houston and they started one or two persons they are now 12 I think and that also pushes the capability and it also gives strength from our sort of we help you we are there and again that drive sales not only of service but it also drives sales because our customers are confident that we can support them sorry for the long handles lena perfect no no it's perfectly fine thank you so much for taking my question

Thank you. Thank you, Lena.

As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Okay, then we thank you for taking the time listening to us and we hope you have a good continuation of the day. Thank you from Matthew and Sven here.