Ovzon AB (publ)

company Avzon released their report for the third quarter 2025 this morning. We will now be given a presentation of the results and activities in the quarter by CEO Per Norén and CFO André Lövgren. This is followed by a Q&A. Investors can ask their questions in the live chat. By that, let me welcome Per Norén and André Lövgren. Nice to have you here.

Thank you, Mattias.

Great to be here. Per, strong growth with profitability. How satisfied are you with this report?

A quarter is a quarter, but very satisfied obviously with where we are at and the projections we have for the future and how well we've delivered on the contracts and services we have and the black figures everywhere, basically. So very, very happy and very satisfied with the results today.

Okay. So please go ahead with your presentation and I will be back for the Q&A. Thank you.

Thank you. Good afternoon. Good morning. And welcome to our third quarter report. I'm here with our chief financial officer, André Löfven. Hello. And we're going to take you through the numbers and what's led to the numbers here today. So without further ado, I think we'll start. First of all, let us talk a little bit about the company. So we see ourselves having a greater calling than the actual nuts and bolts that we do every day. And of course, the details are, the devils are in the details of what we do, how we do it, and how we deliver our specialized services. We also see a world that is in turmoil, whether it's hurricanes over Jamaica, other natural disasters or geopolitical tensions and wars around the world. We see ourselves having a greater calling with connecting and protecting people, society and organizations for a safer world. I think we all, from management to employees to customers to shareholders, see that as a greater calling. And you have to play the long game if you're going to be in that business. What we do is essential. It's very, very essential. So we deliver fully integrated, high performance satellite communication solutions. with bringing resilient, secure connectivity to the world's most demanding environments. And it's true that we are focused on defence, natural security and public safety. Our main focus is defence right now, but there is more and more drive and market demand from natural security and public safety, so we see a growth prospect of that as well. And of course, it's all about playing the long game, driving profitable growth, ensuring that the company is healthy at the core and that we can continue to grow and deliver to our customers. I'm going to take you through all those numbers today, but you can see on the curve here to the right that we are on a good trajectory and we had a good quarter here numbers wise. Yes. So is it relevant what we do or is it just us saying so? I believe or we believe that it's very important to understand that satellite communications today is basically the unbreakable link in a very fragile world. So if we think about what the world looks like, over 60% of Earth lacks reliable terrestrial connectivity. The market is large and growing, over 100 billion by 2030, with the CAGR growing from 7% to 9% actually just in a few years. And it's critical to anything that has to do with countries' sovereignty, alliances such as NATO, EU, and of course US and other parts of the world for natural security strategies. So most countries today look at this and say, what do we do to secure our ability to have a functioning society despite the facts of those natural disasters as well as geopolitical tension? One thing that I think is an important fact to understand is that it's a very fragile infrastructure we have today. 95% of our global data flows through undersea cables. And for those that follow media and happenings in the world, you know that they are under attack, basically. The only resiliency you can get is actually from space, if something would happen of nature of disaster recovery and so on. So SATCOM operates independent of all of that and is up until this point immune against certain disruptions, et cetera, et cetera. So it plays a more and more important role in the central architecture of communication. It's a piece of infrastructure that cannot be neglected anymore. Security and sovereignty. Our society that is more and more digitized cannot function without making sure that you have a secure and sovereign infrastructure for communication. Already this week has been a lot of news about GPS jamming and cyber disruptions, both targeted to companies, targeted to institutions, targeted to governments. and targeted overall. So we provide a capability that actually can operate in a GPS denied environment and in a contested environment. So the importance of that cannot be understated, I believe. And last but not least, This is the continuity layer of a digital world. It enables operations when all other things are disrupted and all other networks are out of service. So we play a very important role. We are a specialized provider of very high performance satellite communications. And we believe that that has a very high value, higher and higher value in a world where you also have low Earth orbit satellites such as Starlink, Vutasat, OneWeb and so on. And that's good for connecting consumers and people in the world in remote areas. But if you want real resiliency and real solutions for real-time mission-critical operations, OBSON is the answer. Next, please. That's me. It's me. Our value proposition is very, very clear. We are the only provider that controls what we call the circle of life, the integrated satellite communications capability from the mobile terminal, Think of it as a phone on ground that connects to a satellite, or a satellite network rather, that sends a signal, I want to have internet connectivity, or connectivity goes down to a secure gateway. And the gateway then connects to fiber. The signal goes up to the satellite again and down to the mobile satellite terminal. You have connectivity wherever you are. We will guarantee that that happens. And we do this on a 24 by 7 basis, 365 days a year, because we have a set up. operations and service center that manages all of our networks, all of our terminals for all of our customers without missing a heartbeat. So very, very unique, specialized, integrated services that we have. How does this work? Well, this is a defense and military picture. It could be society at large as well, obviously. But you can see that if you really want to have network-centric operations and you really want to make sure that you connect both assets, people, decision-making with video, content, voice, communication for integrated operations, you have to have connectivity. So this is part of what we are talking about in terms of how can you ensure that. It cannot be nice to have. It has to work all the time and between all these assets. So it's a systems of systems architecture that is needed. And Ofzon's technology and solutions are at the core of that. And we believe that the growth and demand coming in the future will be even greater. Now, let's turn to quarter three and the accomplishments. So during the quarter, one of the most significant events we had was that we completed a refinancing. We have a new loan facility with Danske Bank and it reduces our debt quite considerably. Andrea will go through that a little bit later, but it's significant for us to strengthen our financial platform for how we can continue to drive a healthy core business and grow for the future. Huge step forward for Avzon. We're also strengthening the organization. We are in a scale-up phase. We need to strengthen both in terms of how we structure our scale-up, how we focus on execution and performance and deliver financial results, ensures commercial success, then also scale the company up. We are fortunate to be able to appoint Jeanette Dirichrist as our Chief Commercial Officer. She brings many years of broad and deep experience from the technology, international experience from the technology and telecom sector. And we're not going to put too much pressure on that, but we are going to organize everything we do in how we touch the customers under one organization here and bring that forward to have a more predictable sales and growth prospect going forward. We had one new order during the quarter. We had an additional order from the Swedish Defense Material Administration for additional mobile satellite terminals, which is a very good sign that the use cases are continued to be developed. And we see that that is actually helping us also scale that part of the business with satellite terminals. I'll get back on that later. In conjunction with bringing Jeanette Eriqvist on board, we've also established a number of external strategic advisors that are helping us working through our go-to-market abilities in key markets such as Sweden, Nordic, Europe and the US. So we're very pleased with that. They're treeing into the commercial organization to mobilize everything under one umbrella. Let's turn to the order book. Order intake in the quarter was, as you can see, 72 million Swedish kronor attributable to the order from the Swedish Defense Materials Administration of additional mobile satellite terminals. The order intake for the rolling 12-month corresponds from the US dollars to Swedish almost 1.4 billion. And the order book amounts to one billion plus today. So this is obviously very strong. You can see how the order book has developed here from Q3 a year ago to where we are in Q3 in 2025. Maybe something to mention here so we don't forget it. Being in business to government takes a long time to sell and work with the customers to get contracts done. So we will likely not see such a big order as we had in May, every quarter now. But as we scale up, we believe that that is the possibility. We will likely see a number of string of pearls of orders coming in, starting to build up a more predictable stream of orders. But we have a very strong order book that we are now delivering on. I think... It would be wrong of us and me not to mention why the financial results are as strong as Andrea will show us in just a minute here. But it's all about delivering on our commitments. It's all about operational execution. It's all about having an integrated model for how you actually deliver. So one way of growing, of course, is to sell a lot. But then, as the business model works, you actually have to deliver on that. So part of why we see the results we do today is that we have a superb model where we have third-party satellite capacity, the services layer. But we can mix and match that, of course, with our own satellite, OPSON 3. And we have done that during the period in this quarter as we ramped up the third party capacity. And you can see that in the margins that we are delivering now. And it also gives us a chance to actually utilize the asset of satellite capacity in as optimal of a way as possible. And then, of course, it's about delivering the mobile satellite terminals that connects to the networks and uses the satellite capability that we have available for our customers. And we've had a very, very strong scale up and delivery during Q2 and now Q3 with those terminals. It's according to plan with all the contracts and commitments we have. and we continue to then deliver according to that plan. So that's a little bit different. That's about resilience in the supply chain. That's about ordering components, assembly at the right time, quality assure and deliver to the customer at the right time. So I would say that I am very, very pleased with how our organisation have a very predictable and reliable performance in terms of delivery. It's shown in the numbers, it's shown in how we operate, and it also builds confidence with the customers. So we have the opportunity to continue to both deliver today, expand with current customers, renew contracts, and also sell to new customers as this becomes a reference point. And the defense industry suppliers As a defense industry supplier, I think it's incredibly important for us to deliver on time to meet the requirements for those mission-critical customers that we have. And we're very proud to do so in this quarter. And we aim at continuing that journey going forward. With that, I'll hand it over to you, André.

Thank you very much, Per. Okay, let's look at the financials a bit more into details here then. I'll start with the revenue. And as you can see, it has been increasing for a couple of quarters and it has definitely increased also in this quarter. And then especially driven by our service revenue. As you can see, it really bumps up quite a lot in this quarter. But also we have solid delivery of terminals also in this quarter. We had a really strong Q2, but also now in Q3, it's at really good levels. So it's very pleasing to see that we see an increase in the top line. But I think what's most important is to look at the services, which is kind of the foundation of our recurring revenues. And to the right, you see here the graph of our run rate of service revenue. so it's basically the last quarter times four so see what is it on an annualized basis and as you can see it has really popped up quite a lot here in in this quarter so that was the top line let's look at the profitability which is way more important i would say and here it's also very pleasing to see that it's improving and not only this quarter it's actually improving for six quarters in a row now when it comes to ebitda And that has to do that with, of course, that volumes are up, but it also has to do that we have a really healthy mix of income streams when it comes to that gross margin that they are producing. So both from our own satellite, but also from the least capacity and then from the terminals as well. So we mix that together, you are at these kind of levels in EBITDA margins, which is 47%. So it's very strong and you see it has been built up over a few quarters now. If you look to the right here, then you see the EBIT. So then when we have absorbed the depreciation on our satellite with the volumes we have now and the profitability we're generating, we are profitable also on EBIT level and has now been for two quarters in a row and has been improving for four quarters. So also here you see that it's consistent improvement that we're delivering and you cannot see it here in on the graph but if you look into the report and look at the bottom line the net profit and earnings per share it's also improving and it has been now profitable for two quarters in a row so we're we are delivering uh good here as well i would say okay i'm moving over to cash and net debt uh Start with the cash flow from operations. I recall in the Q2 call that I was looking forward to show this Q3 number because we know that there will be prepayments coming in from customers and that you can see now in the Q3 that that has been delivered. So really strong cash flow from operations. And since we are not investing heavily into a satellite, it's up there, it's been there for a year. All of that cash flow is almost running all the way down to the bank account, which then supports, as you can see, the net debt on the right hand side here. We have a strong cash position in the company. We have also amortized some of the debt while we did the refinancing, which I'll get into a bit more on the benefits of that. But that leads to a net debt that is significantly lower than what you have seen in the past. So it feels good to be CFO for this company for the time being. Speaking about the refinancing, we signed and we completed this deal with Danske Bank then during this quarter or during September. And it's not only lower costs where I will get into, but it's also a good solid foundation for us with some flexibility in it in this setup with the term loan and a revolving credit facility. We have not drawn everything on the revolving credit facility, especially done some amortization in this quarter. But most important of all is that we now have an interest rate that is way much lower than what it has been in the past. it will from starting q4 so we haven't actually seen it in numbers yet we have done it but the impacts of it you will see going forward and we're estimating it to be almost around 70 million swedish currency per year in reduced interest costs which means that goes all the way down to the bottom line so this is a profit booster i would say and with that i would like to hand it back to you pair for some summary and closing remarks

Thank you, Andrea. Excellent work, obviously. Well, Andrea took us through the numbers, and as I alluded to when we started the presentation, of course, if we start on the lower right quadrant, the order book is very, very important. But to point out here is that the order book actually now looks into 2027. So we have started to have this predictability of an order book to deliver upon. And I'll talk a little bit about it before we close for Q&A here as well. But the order book is very, very strong. Of course, a company like ours, our ability to deliver, as I also talked about, is second to none. So you can win business and you can try to boost your sales, etc. But if you cannot deliver your numbers, your revenue will not go up. Your EBITDA will not go up. And your operating cash flow, if you don't deliver, will actually not go up either. So if you look on these other three quadrants, we have this saying that you have to run a healthy core business, meaning deliver on your commitments. You have to do it in a timely manner and high quality manner to those customers we have that are dependent on that. So you can now see that we drive profitable growth in all aspects of profitability and revenue. So it's not only about gathering revenue, it's also about driving profitability so we can both reinvest in the business and do other things with the profit that we generate. And of course, you can never run out of cash. So it's all about finding those progressive business models, work with customers that you partner with, that then you have smarter solutions where you can actually deliver faster and better and then increase your task precision. And of course, André and his team drove this project with refinancing. And as he noted, that hits on bottom line, but it also improves our ability to plan the business going forward. So on all fronts here, very strong growth and continued improved profitability and an order book that looks into 2027. Now, before we close, I think we wanted to talk a little bit about the business model. André talked about this as well. But if you look on the picture to the right, there are three components to the integrated SATCOM solutions we deliver to our customers. It's the terminals. that is a very discreet business. It requires a resilient supply chain. You have to do final assembly, you have to design and quality assure, and then you have to deliver its logistics. So it's a very physical value chain that is a necessity in our integrated service. The other part, of course, is to have enough satellite capacity, both third party and your own, that you can mix and match for the best performance for the customer, but also for the best performance of the business, meaning growth and profitability. And thirdly, it's about managing this on a 24-7 basis and not leave any customer behind. So our model for doing that is our center of excellence for global service delivery that we have. That in itself then drives the services revenue. André talked about that as basically the platform for everything we do, the run rate we have. So every customer network we have generates monthly service revenue. Invoiced monthly, we deliver the service. Profit goes through service margins. We can see that with utilization of OPSOM 3, the margins go up, but we have a mix of that and we can continue to have that going forward. And then positive cash flow and progressive payment terms. If you sign orders where they want faster delivery as customers, we can then invest earlier in our inventory and in our supply chain. Very strong aspect of our business, important. And for every new customer we get, that lays on top and on top and on top. And the longer contracts we get, the more predictability we get on the services and margin side. The terminals, as I said, the revenues and profits are generated when we deliver. So you have to be both just in time, but you have to be actually a little bit earlier. So you have to have good control over your financials in order to invest in a resilient supply chain. And larger orders allows for more cost-effective supply chain and inventory, being ready to invest earlier, to deliver earlier. And last but not least, it's all about the value to the customer and the customer satisfaction. So longer-term contracts... And ensuring that we deliver on our promises then helps us renew and it helps us to upsell and cross-sell. And then it helps us be more predictable in our planning, investment and scale-up of the business. So I don't think we've ever actually shown this as an understanding of how actually the revenues, the profits, the cost and the cash flow functions in that business model. Going forward, we'll continue to do what this quarterly report has shown. It's all about delivering financial performance, and we do that by ensuring commercial success. And the commercial success includes delivery on our promises, as is the fundamental of this report. And then we also work actively in scaling up, strengthening the structure, leadership, expanding, but also adding brilliant people to the mix and mixing people, processes and tools in order to scale up and to take to play the long game and to take longer and bigger contracts with customers that are in need of our solutions and capabilities. And with that, if we go to the last slide, I think we want to thank our employees and our partners and our customers for working so closely together. That's why the results are what they are. We don't leave any stone unturned in order to deliver on the promises we make. And that's going to help this company run a very healthy core business for years to come. So thank you very much.

Thank you, Per and André. Let's move over to the Q&A. First off is Simon Granat at ABG Sundahl Collier. Please, Simon, go ahead with your questions.

Thank you so much. And hi, Per and André, and big congratulations on the strong numbers. I'd like to start from a broader market perspective. Could you share your thoughts on the current status in terms of satellite capacity? Is it fair to say that it's currently a scarce supply? And if so, given recent geopolitical tension, demand for SATCOM is certainly increasing. Does it mean that these dynamics help the pricing in the industry?

Good morning, Simon. Thank you for the question. And that is a broad and deep question. So let's see if I can put my laser pointer maybe on a few answers to that question. So one, we don't see a scarce supply of satellite capacity. However, the market changes somewhat. So there are mergers now. We've seen the big geostationary satellite providers such as Viasat and Inmarsat merge, and also now SES and Intesat, now called SES as one company. They have the majority of the geo-satellites in space. Most of that has actually been used for media, broadcast etc etc that's tilting more and more over to government as we have laid out here so i don't know that they necessarily will need all their capacity which helps a buyer of third-party capacity to get access to capabilities and capacity at fair market prices. So somewhat of a buyer's market there. I think we've been very fortunate and smart and good in how we have acquired that and how we have tied that satellite capacity to our customer contracts. So we don't have a big inventory of that that kind of burdens our results. So I think it's a mixed bag. A lot of things also move over to the low Earth orbit satellite constellations, such as Starlink and OneWeb. Lightspeed by Telesat and others. So more and more of the more generic connectivity capabilities are moving over to that and more and more of the geo is moving to more specialized where we believe we have the leading position and therefore we also can get access both price-wise and capacity-wise to third-party capacity. I hope that answered the question somewhat.

It certainly did. As always, I appreciate the colorful answer. Moving on, can you share your view on the FMV order going forward in terms of the mix and match between Ops 3 and the leased capacity? Is it reasonable to expect some more leased capacity than was what was the case in Q3 and perhaps slightly lower margins as such is reasonable, not taking any future orders in consideration, of course?

Yeah, it's a very good question. And we both talked a little bit about the use of OVSAN 3 in any delivery, really, because if it's not sold and under contract with someone, we would like to utilize it when it adds a lot of value both to our company economically, but also to the customer. From September, basically from end of September, we have all third-party capacity signed up for that delivery. So we will see that being used in that delivery. But we also have a number of contracts that uses OpsOn3 as well. But we also are in continuous dialogue with a number of customers where we believe OpsOn3 would fit well. Hopefully, the coming month here, we'll be able to utilize our own satellite in advanced customer contracts with others because we have enough third-party capacity to now deliver on that order that we got. I don't know if you want to add something.

But maybe just on your point there on the margin impact. I mean, since we now have those networks all up and running end of this quarter, we have that full cost base as well then. So it's making it easy for you to estimate where margins are heading.

Very clear. Thank you. And on the US, about one year ago, the US DOD bought some T7 terminals, a relatively large order. And now for some time, that entity has not been utilizing these, given that there are no active SATCOM services. So if we see a rebounding activity with that customer, I'm wondering, is it fair to assess that they, lack of better words, have the platform, i.e. the terminals in place? or should we expect a future order to comprise both more terminals and SATCOM?

It's a very good question, so let me answer it very sincerely and honestly. Absolutely, it's a strength for us that there is an inventory of highly capable off-zone mobile satellite terminals. They will most likely be used by the US DoD and the US in any future orders. It depends a little bit on which part of the USD we are in dialogue with a number of parties. Of course, the US government shutdown slows down processes here a little bit. We're in discussion with a number of units where some will probably utilize what's already in inventory. but some will also add additional. It is hard to predict exactly the volumes of that. That's part of our supply chain inventory work here. But there will be some terminal contracts, I think, when we re-win the US DoD, but it depends a little bit on which units within the US DoD that are using it.

Makes perfect sense. And I follow up on the terminal sales. The SATCOM backlog is certainly very strong. Could you share any details on the dynamics of the terminal backlog as well?

Yeah, I think this is where scale up is happening as we stand here and as we speak today. So you have followed the company quite a long time and many of our shareholders have as well. We've been really good in doing just in time delivery. And now we're scaling it to very different volumes and levels. So we're actually working on how would we increase that ability both in the supply chain of parts and how early we order. We have a good backlog. We have delivered, as you have seen, in Q2 and Q3 on the larger order we got from the Swedish Defense Material Administration. We still have a backlog of that that goes into next year in Q1 I believe is the end point of that delivery and then for any additional orders we have to build a little inventory so we're not just empty so to speak so we're building an inventory because we believe we have some opportunities ahead of us that we don't want to be without terminals so we're both building inventory for delivery from now until end of q1 and we're adding on for the opportunity to see in for going forward not the full batches as it might be but a portion of that and we continuously build that and track that on a at least monthly basis for ourselves

And I think if I do the math correctly, we had the FMV order of 220 million in terminals. And then we had this additional order of 72. So almost 300 million in terminals to be delivered. And as you saw in the presentation, we have delivered shy of 194. So there's more to come. And it's actually then extended into 26 a bit longer than the first quarter since that add-on order had a little bit longer duration.

And maybe add to that also, that also gives us the ability to order and negotiate terms and so on for the subcomponents, et cetera, that we're using. So this is a pure scale-up game for us with a supply chain and production ability that... It might not be easy, but we're on it quite well, actually, and we have the experience on the team to do it.

Very encouraging stuff. A final question for me would be on the highlight in the report that you have engaged a number of strategic advisors in key markets. Is that usually how you gain footprint in new regions, or should we not read too much into that?

I think it's a very, very good question. It's a delicate question, actually. I think our model of going to market is basically to have people on our own team responsible for a geographical market or a specific customer group. And we're building up that team now with new leadership and structure and focus on those geographical markets. However, when you win in a market like the one we're in, you have to touch a lot of stakeholders. From the end users that want to know exactly how things work, you train them, you test and you trial and you show how it works both on unmanned and manned vehicles and with with people and how you can build this integrated communication model for your unit or your organization. But on top of that, you have to work both with the procurement agencies, you have to work with, in our case, mostly the defense leadership, the branches of defense, and even the budgets that come from the governments, etc. And in order to do so, you cannot expect one single person to cover all of those layers and aspects of business. So the strategic advisors are there to support in specific markets and regions, the uh the approach to that market in and helping us understand how they are different how they're similar and how we should approach them to improve the speed of execution for our go-to market crystal clear thanks again for having my questions and congrats on a strong result thank you thank you salmon

Thank you, Simon Granat at ABG Sundal Collier. And we move on. Many investors have order intake on their radar. Could you put some color to that?

Yes, I think this report talks about our ability to deliver. So that's very strong. We've repeated that now and we can see it in the numbers that Andrea presented. And of course, order intake is you're not better than the last month or the last quarter of winning a contract and so on. Our market takes time. Business to government is complex. As I laid out for Simon on his question, it's complex. It takes time. You have to build trust. Trust is built and you have to educate in many cases. So it doesn't suit well for a quarterly snapshot of an end date and so on. But the long game we're playing is to win all the essential countries and customers for our specialized integrated services. So they take time. We have to roll with it. We have to have a strong financial engine in the company in order to win those longer term, larger term contracts. So we are not particularly worried about the order intake. But it doesn't mean that we're resting on our laurels. We're actually working everything around the clock, actually, in order to actually win more contracts in each of the quarters to come. So that's part of why we strengthen also the go-to-market sales and commercial organization and business development organization with more people that can help us do that. Okay. Thank you. and there are some more questions from investors how do you experience negotiation with the usdod under the current administration when they are not locked down yeah no i i think it's fair to say that we don't necessarily knock on the big door to get in we are specialized we know the organizations that we think we know most of the organizations that have the greatest need. So we go directly to them and then we support them in building their internal business cases in going up the ladder to get budget allocations. So I think We don't necessarily see it's complex, right? It's the government shutdown. There is no there's no budgets floating. No, the administration is not working. The bureaucratic system is not working. So it's hard for our end customers to operate as well. But we stay very close to them. We build partnership, we build dialog, we build business cases. We use this time also to expand how we're going to use our capability, how they're going to use our capability. So I think we we're probably avoiding a little bit of the noise and concentrated more on a sniper approach to working with a real customer that has the real use cases. And I think that's going to take us to a better place eventually, but it's very unpredictable. You do not know when that is going to happen, but that's how we work it. That's how it works.

And when it comes to building an ecosystem, are Ofsun terminals locked to the Ofsun satellite services?

The Ovsum terminals are locked to the Ovsum satellite services and networks, yes. We don't sell terminals as standalone. There are other companies that do that. We don't sell them as standalone. We sell them only as part of our integrated circle of life solution. Yes.

Thank you. And when it comes to the margins you were talking about, using third-party capacity versus Ovsum 3, can you say anything on how much that difference is?

Well, there is a difference. I cannot get into the details of the actual difference. But of course, we don't have the leasing cost on our own satellites since we own it. So that makes, of course, a big, big difference. So there's a strong margin in our own satellite, of course. But it also has required investments. So we need to have that covered. Of course.

In September, you held your first ever Capital Markets Day, and it was very interesting. I watched the whole thing. What was the key takeaways for the market during that day?

Thank you for listening in and participating. We felt very good about doing this for the first time. We will continue to do it. We believe that the investor market... wants it, needs it, and we should provide more clarity on our direction. The key takeaways, I would say, is what we've said here today. First, deliver on your promises. Second, really drive sales, more predictable sales and predictable order intake, larger contracts. We have a good financial engine so we can reinvest in the business and the third component i would say is that how do we scale how do we grow going forward what's the prospect of that so we laid out how we intend to proactively secure satellite capacity so we're not constrained by that which include also i plans for our own proprietary satellite capacity meaning more more satellite satellites and also a little bit how we think about the financing of those because i think there is a way to do customer financing of those because of our specialized capability that is needed But we also believe that we can do that through a combination of our own cash and financial ability.

Okay, thank you. Speaking about... Would you add something to that?

Well, I mean, the growth that we see ahead of us is both... securing even more third-party capacity, and then also looking into new satellites of our own. But to make that happen, of course, we've got to make sure that we have filled the first satellite that we have, and then also have pre-capacity on a new agreement, so don't go out with full market risk on those. And again, coming back to financing, I think it's, as per alluded to, there are probably customer interests that could be part of funding or funding the whole of it. But if not, I mean... Given how the cash flow looks like and what we're projecting, I think we can cover a lot of it with our own cash and some loans as well, additional loans. So, I mean, if we want to do this, it's going to be in a controlled way. On our own merits.

Okay, and Andrea, while we're at it, you did the refinance session that was very successful. What was the key reasons that you were able to come down that much on interest?

It's so many parts in this. I think first of all that Just the trends in society when it comes to acknowledging that defense is actually part of being sustainable nowadays, realizing that makes society sustainable. So that has opened up new doors. And then also landing this contract with FMV, of course, helped. with the visibility for us, but also for potential creditors. So going into those negotiations with numerous banks and then ending up with one who's very forward leaning, I think that made the trick. It's not only about the cost. I mean, there are things that's got to match as well. So I think we're suited well now with this cooperation.

Thank you. And a new hire, you appointed a new chief commercial officer, Jeanette Ideqvist. What will she bring to the company?

First of all, this is a team sport. We brought André on board a few months ago. We also have a strong team that has been with us for a very long time. What we're trying to do is to build a very strong team with a dynamic experience, both broad and deep, in technology, business to government, sales and delivery, as well as different perspectives. So I think... We're very specialized in a lot of things we do, but I think the broader sense of building a company and scaling a company requires experiences that are not only satellite industry or not only defense or not only it requires us to be very open. So I'm trying to lead through leaders that bring that perspective both Those that we have had for a long time that are really, really good and bring new blood in with experience from international markets and business. And I think that's going to help us in the short, mid and long run to be very successful.

And one final question. What should investors look out for in the near future?

I think investors should continue to look upon us and demand from us that we continue to deliver on our commitments so that the financial results continue to be what they've been the last two quarters and especially this one. So that's our promise. Secondly, I think the investors should look at us building up the order book so we have a more longer term predictable ability to deliver. And thirdly, I think they should look upon us with the ambition to be the leader in advanced satellite communications globally.

Okay, that will end the interview for today. And I want to address the audience and thank you so much for joining us today. And most of all, Per and André, thank you so much for all your answers and your time.

Thank you, Mattias. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thanks.