Peab AB (publ)

My name is Johan Hartoma and I am the CEO of PAAB. With me are Jesper Göransson, PIAB's CEO and CEO, and Niklas Winqvist, PIAB's CFO. We will let Jesper start by presenting today's report, and then we will let Niklas finish. No, Jesper will finish. If you want to ask questions after the session, you can either do it manually, and then you press square five on your mobile devices, and then we'll let you know. Alternatively, if you want to write in a question, you can do it via the web form, and then I'll read up the question later. So, with those words, we'll hand it over to Jesper.

Welcome. Thank you very much, and once again welcome to the first quarter of 2025. The first quarter is always a relatively small business quarter, as we know, with a low season for many businesses. But before we get into that, let's look at the market outlook. We start with housing investments. And just like before, we believe in a continued recovery of the housing markets in all of our three countries by 2025. But that's from low levels. We'll get back to that a little bit soon. We may also see that the recovery is taking place in a somewhat slower pace than we previously thought due to the insecurity that now exists in the environment. On the other hand, falling market rates may help us in the other direction. So we'll have to wait and see. But we believe in upgrades, at least for 2025. This picture also talks about the previous quarter, and we see this dramatic fall as it was since the top year 2021, where we were up to almost 70,000 starters per year in Sweden, and we have dropped to a bit under 30,000 now, 2023 and 2024, on the rise since 2025 points to something over 30,000. So it's basically halved levels from the tops then. We think we see a stabilization. These lower interest rates have of course contributed to that. It is difficult to say where this is going and at what pace. The big concern is still that the construction costs have increased as much as they have done after the inflation impulses that came. And in combination with the fact that prices on the housing market have fallen, which makes it difficult to get up the calculations. Bedömningen ligger någonstans mellan 30 000 Swedbank-prognoser i starten per år och 52 300, vilket då är bokverkets prognoser. Vi står fast på vår tidigare bedömning att vi tror att marknaden har bottnat ur, men vi tror att återhämtningen kommer att ta sin tid. Behovet finns där, men vi får ta ett kvartal i taget. If we look at the level of investment for local construction, it is in a positive way for 2025. However, there are variations between segments, where we have office and commercial buildings that are weaker, while we have the public sector that invests quite heavily in all three countries. And then it is mainly about education, care, law enforcement, defense, but also some parts of the industry continue to invest as well, of course. If we look at the construction side, the investments for 2025 are expected to be at higher levels in all three countries. There are a number of different sectors that contribute, such as the development of electricity networks, increased investments in roads and railways, but also a lot of investments in ports and railways that drive growth. If we summarize this to a whole on the total markets, we expect increased investments in both Sweden, Norway and Finland. It's actually the same type of prognosis that we left off a quarter ago, so it's an unchanged market view. Then we look at the business areas and as I mentioned earlier, it is a slightly smaller quarter in terms of business. We can start with construction. Here we see that the revenue is falling. We had a revenue of 5.3 billion SEK in the quarter compared to 5.8 billion SEK. It is an 8% decrease and it is mainly explained by the fact that we have a lower activity in new production and housing. We have managed to switch from housing production to other types of production in a good way, but of course we have not been able to fully compensate for that stage. The turnover increased and increased to 111 million, which means that we get a turnover margin that went from 1.7 percent to 2.1 percent. We have had a high turnover during the quarter, 8.8 billion compared to 6.7. This is a large number of public orders that have come in. We have an order stock that is increasing and is now close to 27 billion in construction. It's time to pick up projects during the quarter. We are going to build the trade university in Gothenburg, a new bus depot in Malmö, a central kitchen in Banda and a new school and health center in Karachok. A little bit back to the distribution of the products. I talked earlier about housing that has fallen. And the share in the revenue at Välerbystad is now down by 26%. And here we were open when it was the highest at a bit over 50%. So it's a big drop that has been made there. And then it has been filled with the other pieces. I mentioned earlier public orderers, school, health care, bathrooms, sports facilities, security-class buildings of different types. Vi har ombyggnad av Sturekvarteret i Stockholm som ligger bland kontor och vi har LKABs nya kontor i Kiruna som också har kommit in. Då hoppar vi till anläggning. And here we see a business that had growth in the same quarter as last year, 3% up, 3.7 billion. Public investments in the form of various investments, infrastructure, climate change, we have a good spread in geographies. and various product areas in Sweden and Norway. The result increases to 114 million compared to 1977, and this also means that we get a margin that ranges from 2.2 to 3.1 percent. If we add up construction and construction to what we call entrepreneurship, then the margin for entrepreneurship in the northern quarter is 2.5 percent, which is an increase from 1.9 percent. Within the facility, we have a stable order entry. We have a lower order entry than what we had in the previous quarter in April. But in the previous quarter in April, we had a number of very large projects that came in. So we see here on the two high stacks, Q1 and Q2 of 2024 were extraordinary. And if we take away the view of them and look at the remaining stacks, I think these 4.8, 4.9 billion in this quarter is a good level. Per den siste mars uppgick Årlstoken till 21,1 miljarder, vilket är upp från 18,6. Några projekt från första kvartalet på anläggning, ett nytt kraftvärmeverk i Örtofta, en ny E22-anslutning utanför Lund och en fortsatt ombyggnation av ett avloppsredningsverk i Stockholm. A little comparison of product types here. We have a good distribution between different product areas. Street and land work stands for 35% of the turnover, while the share price is 27%, so it continues to decrease. This is explained by the decreased housing construction. On the other hand, we have infrastructure where we have 29% of the turnover, while the segment stands for the largest share price, 36% of the share price. Behind that increase are these large, long projects, for example Boda Airfield and E20 outside Mariestad. And as I just mentioned, it is also a project that has been in production for several years. Drift and entertainment is 18% of turnover and 19% of turnover. Then we take the business industry. It is the business industry that is most affected by winter weather and the season. If we look and compare the quarter, Q1 to Q2, the turnover decreased by 5% to 2.3 billion. And it is the construction system and hiring that is decreasing. And it is in turn related to the lower housing construction. Resultatet uppgick till minus 549, en liten försämring jämfört med föregående första kvartal. Det är ett djupare säsongsmönster inom beläggning eftersom den verksamheten har vuxit och sedan har vi en svagare lönsamhet inom byggsystem och kramverksamheten. Men det är ett litet kvartal sammanfattningsvis. The order entry was slightly higher than the previous quarter. It landed at 3.8 billion, against 2.9 billion. And this is mainly related to the lease contract in Sweden and Finland, which the increase in the order entry is in. We have an order stake of 7.4 billion, which is up from 6.2 billion. Here we see that the leasing business is now up by 54%. And what we have talked about before, the leasing business is a conjecture-independent business and we are the leading actor in Norden, so we are happy for that. If we look at final capital in industry, we have had a number of quarters where the final capital goes down. We are now at 9.7 billion compared to 10.8. Vi binder mindre rörskapital och vi har haft en lägre investeringstakt under de senaste kvartalen. I takt med att vi har förbättrat lönsamheten så ökar avkastningen på sysselsatt kapital och den är uppbyggd till 13% jämfört med 8,2% för ett år sedan. Sist affärsområdet, projektutveckling. Där har vi en omsättning som minskar något till 990 miljoner jämfört med 1055. Ett resultat som går ner till 83 jämfört med 246. I jämförelsessiffran hade vi ett REA-resultat från försäljning av JV-andelar i ett bolag som heter Tornet som renderade 220 miljoner i REA-resultat. The turnover level is characterized by the lower production rates in housing production. If we look at production rates, we started with 336 housing rights and properties. Bland annat startade vi två projekt uppe i Stockholmsregionen. Ett i Nacka, Kvarnholmen, och ett i Rosunda, Solna. Det är projekt som vi har startat på traditionella premisser med förhandsförsäljning. Det visar på att det går att starta projekt i vissa unika områden. Vi har också startat 187 bostäder i egen balansräkning. And among other things, we have started a project in Gothenburg, which we do as a combination business when we build an external location and rental rights. The idea with these homes and their own balance account is that when the project comes further, it will be able to be converted to housing rights. And we also see that during this quarter, we had 40 people who converted from old, started projects in the balance account to to BRF and there we also see that due to the fact that the project is completed, it is easier to sell and then we can take these projects from the self-balance account out in Bostads Rättsföreningar. Then we also get the result effects. Until then, it is in the self-balance account to zero calculation. The sales are going on at an even pace. It's a lower level than we've been before, but still even. We sold 226 apartments compared to 166 in the 20th quarter. And apartments from our own balance sheet that became 46. So a total of 272 versus 305. Of 305, 139 rents were sold as well. Jag tycker att vi har en väl dimensionerad byggrättsportfölj och vi har sagt innan attraktiva lägen i Norden och i avvaktning på att marknaden nu stabiliserar sig eller vänder uppåt så arbetar vi med att vidareutveckla och förbereda projekt för start och i vissa fall så kommer vi starta egen balansräkning i den mån vår kapitalbindning tillåter det och i andra fall så kommer vi starta i bostadsrättsform. Det underliggande behovet av bostäder tycker vi då finns där i samtliga tre länder. Vi har totalt 1910 bostäder i produktion av 1207 bostadsrätter och ägarlägenheter och där är 43% sålt. Och sen så har vi 623 bostäder som är i egen balansräkning där då endast 9% är sålt. Totalt är 35% av de 1910 sålda. The completed and repurchased housing is on 678. Out of the 678, 306 are completed rental rights and they should either be converted to housing rights or they should be sold as rental rights to external holders. 372 are traditional housing rights or properties, so it is on a manageable level, we think. If we look at the property development portfolio, we have a ongoing project in Malmö. It is a project with trade, office and parking, with a total of almost SEK 600 million. The project has a 43% growth rate and it will be completed by Q3 2027. It came in together with several of the completed properties from Centur, when we shared the company with Balder. In addition to those in Malmö, we have an office in Gothenburg that is up to 40%. And if we look at the capital invested here, we have planned out, we are at 18.4 billion in capital invested in project development. But due to the fact that we have lower income from, especially housing development, we have a low return on that amount of capital. And it is up to 3.4% compared to 2.8%. That was the business goals. Niklas, can you take us through the concerns?

Yes, thank you very much. Then we will go through the PV concern as a whole since the first quarter. And if we look at the revenue, it decreased marginally, from 11.1 billion SEK to 10.9 billion SEK, so a few percent decline. We had a turnover in the first quarter of minus 278 million SEK. Som nämnts tidigare så är det naturligtvis då påverkat av säsong där det är normalt sett att framförallt industri påverkar och därmed att vi har ett negativt börsresultat i första kvartalet. I jämförelseperioden hade vi ett börsresultat på minus 106 miljoner men det var också så att under det första kvartalet 24 så gjorde vi den här försäljningen av trådligt bostadsproduktion som påverkade positivt The geographic distribution looks a lot like before, that we have the clearly dominant Omsättningen i Sverige med 71 procent. Vi har ökat något i Finland, ligger där på 16 procent av koncernens omsättning. Och sen oförändrat i de andra två länderna, Norge och Danmark. Vi har jämfört med föregående år en ökad andel offentliga kunder. If we look back one year, this was a pretty exact 50-50 distribution. Now we have increased with public customers up to 56% of our turnover and private customers to 44%. And of course, it is the different market developments that do this, where we have a construction market and a market in construction and other public housing. som har ökat och har goda marknadsutsikter och bostäder då som successivt har minskat, som har förstärkt den här fördelningen. Vi hade en relativt sett hög orderingång i första kvartalet, 16,6 miljarder. Föregående år hade vi i och för sig 17,9 miljarder, men som ni såg tidigare här i presentationen så hade vi då exceptionellt hög orderingång i det specifika kvartalet inom affärsområdeanläggning. When the high order intake for a while now has made that the order block has been strengthened. We have an order block today at 52 billion. If we go back one year, it was at just under 48 billion. So we have an order block that has increased by 4 billion in one year. The share of a project under 500 million in that order block is 73%. It shows that we have a good spread on the project. We have a good risk spread and a good portfolio of our order stack. If we look at the order stack distributed over time, it is still the case that we extend our order stack somewhat. 47% of our total order stock will be executed in 2026 or later. But we also see from the current fiscal year that we now have 27.8 billion in order. In the corresponding period last year, we had 25.9 billion in order. So we have strengthened the order stock both in the current year and in the coming years. A few years ago, we also talked about our pre-contracts, which is phase 1, where we work together with an orderer to jointly produce a project that will later become a conventional contract and order. The potential value of those pre-contracts rose when we closed the first quarter to 16 billion, an increase from 13 billion at the turn of the year. Kassaflödet, som alltid, är påverkat av säsongen. Normalt sett, som ni vet, våra säsongsmässiga mönster för kassaflödet är som så att vi har negativa kassaflöden i första och andra kvartalet och motsvarande ska vi sedan ha positiva kassaflöden i tredje och fjärde kvartalet. Vi hade ett negativt kassaflöde om 363 miljoner. i första kvartalet i år, så ganska normal nivå. Vi har successivt fått en lägre nettoskuld. Även denna är precis som kassaflödet naturligtvis säsongspåverkad. Men vi hade en nettoskuld vid stängningen av Q1 på 8,3 miljarder. Att jämföra med ett år tillbaka på 9,1 miljarder. Nettoskulden har också påverkats av att I fjärde kvartalet 24 så sålde vi andelar eller delade upp andelar i centur och en del av det har vi då kunnat plocka ut som utdelning här under första kvartalet där vi har kvittat det mot en revers skuld vilket har dragit ner vår nettoskuld. I segments netto skulden så ingår den osålda delen av bostäder i pågående produktion. Den uppgår då till 1,9 miljarder. Går vi tillbaka ett år i tiden så uppgick den posten till 2,6 miljarder. Då går vi över till målavstämningen och vi ska stämma av två av de financial goals here after the first quarter. We have a total of nine financial and non-financial goals. We start with the moving margin, we now roll on a moving margin of 4.4%. There we have a goal of 6% moving margin. We have also been clear about Det är ett mål som bygger på att vi ska ha normala konjunkturförutsättningar- och också förutsättningar för samtliga av våra verksamheter- att finnas i en normal marknad. Där är vi inte idag, men vi levererar en rörelsemarginal på 4,4 %. Nettoskuddsättningsgraden, där har vi ett mål att vi ska hålla oss inom ett intervall om 0,3 till 0,7. Och när vi nu stänger första kvartalet, då ligger vi mitt i det intervallet med en nettoskuddsättningsgrad på 0,5. Då lämnar jag över till Jesper igen. Ja, tack så mycket.

Då har vi ett icke-finansiellt mål också att hantera, och det är ett väldigt glädjande sådant. utvecklingen på våra allvarliga olyckor som fortsätter gå ner. Vi hade ju en ganska trist utveckling här för något år sedan och vi var uppe på 54 enheter rullande 12 eller olyckor rullande 12 och Vi hade en kraftig nedgång under fjolåret, men den har faktiskt fortsatt under invarende kvartal under 2025. Så vi är nere på 28 nu allvarliga olyckor rullande tolv på den 31 mars. Så det har verkligen gått på rätt håll och det glädjer mig väldigt, väldigt mycket. Utav de 28 så avstår 20 egenpersonal och 8 underentreprenörer. Så nu gäller det att hålla i. Det här är ju naturligtvis, vi har ju ett målbild att vi inte ska ha några olyckor, en nollvision. And now we have to keep this trend going. But we have made a big shift, and I am very happy about that. Yes, then we will summarize the first quarter. And we note that there are stable market prospects on the Nordic construction and construction market. We note a high order entry and a high order stock. We see that the first quarter, as usual, is clearly affected by the season. Vi har en omsättning som är i nivå med första kvartalet 2024. Vi har ett resultat som är lite lägre, men det beror på att jämförelsekvartalet var påverkat av en större realisationsvinst. Vi har en minskad netterskuld under kvartalet. Vi kan väl bara en gång slå fast att vår breda affärsmodell med våra fyra affärsområden och den stora lokala förankring som vi har, har tjänat oss och tjänar oss väldigt, väldigt väl. So that was the first quarter of 2025, Johan.

Thank you very much, Jesper and Niklas. Now we are ready for a question time. If you want to ask questions, press square five on your phones. If you have asked a question and want to return it, press square six. Det kan vara en liten kort paus däremellan. Eller så kan ni också skriva in frågan på webbsidan och då läser jag upp den och ställer den till Jesper och Niklas. Ska vi se om vi har någon frågeställare i kö?

Nästa frågan kommer från Kivan Shirvampur från SEB. Varsågod.

Yes, hello and thank you for the presentation. I have a question on the financial net. You mentioned that you have reduced the net debt quite a lot due to this transaction with Centur. But I'm just trying to get it to come together. In Q4, you had a debt of 9.1 billion. You had a 5.1% average rate. And that implies over 115 in financial costs per quarter. And then you have reduced it by 900 million. You have also reduced the average rate to 4.8%. And that implies about 100 million in financial costs per quarter. But what explains the difference in that you had 160 reported, and how do you expect the financial network to develop with regard to the major changes in the net and debt?

Yes, you can see the changes in the net and debt. Partly, it breaks through successively. Then it is also the case that we previously Before we made business with Centur, we also had feedings on joint venture companies that gave interest rates. And we don't have that left now. And that difference makes the interest rate net relatively decrease. The average rate in relation to our net income is the best target market that we have.

That implies that the financial costs are going down quite a lot in the coming quarter. You are mentioning that there is a footprint that has disappeared from these JV companies.

Yes, most of all, the big issue is related to the deal we made when we solved Centur. If you look at our old network security system, you can see that we had issues on JV companies that went up in higher prices. And they were not bearable. And we do not have them left because we have resolved the joint venture company. Then we have also regulated the loans against the joint venture company.

Okay, thank you. I also have another question on this 47 million one-off from this sale. Could you maybe clarify what exactly type of sale has happened? And is this something that can be a recurring post?

No, but we always have a number of transactions, smaller or larger. It can be anything from selling a piece of land to some kind of area to finished property. It's not a single transaction, but several. And I don't think you should see it as one-offs, but we have, as I said earlier, we have a flow of business that we do. Sometimes it's a little smaller, sometimes it's a little bigger.

Yes, and then there is also a question about industry. You mention that the demand for construction systems and housing due to this housing market is a little weaker today. If you could break down what is actually the difference in profitability compared to last year, if you adjust the seasonality, as you say, was deeper, you could get some kind of like for like marginal development.

I think it's quite difficult to answer, but as I said, we have, and I mention it again, a slightly larger construction business, and it costs more money during the first quarter. And we have an impact in the construction system and crane from the housing side. I don't want to leave any deeper details on that. Okay.

I only have one last question regarding project development. What is driving this marginal improvement compared to last quarter in housing? Now we have turned from a loss to a gain. Is it the expansion of older projects, price reductions, or what is driving this improvement?

En förbättring i kvartalet och en förklaring är ju, Jesper nämnde ju att i vissa lägen kan man starta projekt och vi nämnde också två projekt i Stockholm som naturligtvis, där är ju en lönsamhet i den typen av projekt. Förra året hade vi egentligen inga starter som varken drev omsättning eller resultattillförsel. On the other hand, in this quarter, there are de facto start-ups that give both revenue and success rate. And when the production level is as low as it is now, individual start-ups become a very large proportion, and that has made the margin turn from slightly negative to something positive.

Okay. Thank you very much. Those were the questions I had.

Thank you, Kevin. Let's move on to the next question.

The next question comes from Stefan Andersson from Danske Bank AS, Danmark, Sweden branch. Please go ahead.

Thank you. A few questions from me. If I start with, we can talk about building there, or we can actually lump together building, infrastructure and industry. I'm just thinking a little bit about this order, The backlog you have to execute 2025 is up 6% year-on-year. And if we look at the performance turnover in Q1, it's down a few percent. I'm just wondering if there's any reason why it wouldn't be a good indication of what 2025 could deliver if we look at that yearbook. I understand that there will be annan affär också till liksom, men borde det inte vara en ganska bra indikation på vilken riktning vi har för året, eller om inte, varför inte?

Ja men det som du säger, det där är ju en indikation, det är ju en brytpunkt, så så mäter vi av orderstockens fördelning per den tredje året, och då allt annat lika så har vi en högre andel som ska produceras innevarande år. Men det är ju långt ifrån hela årets produktion som finns inne. Det blir vad det blir. Rent momentant, per sista i tredje, så allt annat lika, så finns det en högre andel på produktion i år jämfört med förra året.

Om jag tittar på marginalen. It doesn't move as much as you understand. I'm a little surprised that we could go up 0.6 on the building margin. Would you say that it is linked to that you have come further into the project and can therefore calculate more, call it a mix or whatever you want, or is it linked to that you actually have a better margin in the order book than that when I produce, so that there will be worse projects. Or if I'm going to own a third thing, it's been a milder winter, so I haven't shot as much. I tried to understand a little about that movement there at 06.

First and foremost, I want to once again underline that we are talking about a quarter here.

Is it quarter 04?

It's quarter 04, but it's the first quarter. And a quarter is always a quarter. Then it is so that we have... We come from quite troubled times with cost inflation and everything that we went through in the previous year. And of course, that started to come out of our books and have been replaced with new production.

Yes, thank you. Perfect. Then on industry, I can remember wrongly, I don't know if it was you or Ensis who talked about it, but Asfalt affären där att Finland hade varit ganska fördelaktig 2024, att det var mer pengar lagda däropå på asfaltsidan. Det lät som att det var ganska mycket, men jag kan ha missförstått. Är det någonting vi borde tänka på vad gäller 2025, att det var lite extremt goda förutsättningar förra året, eller kan vi se förra året som ett normalår?

It was a strong year in Finland last year. In addition to ordinary budget money, one-time investments were made in Finland. There are some investments this year as well, but not as much. We are the market leader in Finland. And it seems that there is still a good market. It was in 2024. It was very, very strong. So you can make your assessment based on that.

Yes, it's super good. I got a good feeling. Then on that topic too, I would have misunderstood a little bit. I think the mild weather we've had, I thought that maybe we started a little earlier. But given what you say, that it has been a deeper, that it has cost more, that you have a bigger asphalt business this year than you have a road business than you have had before. And we see that it costs there. Does that really mean that you have not been able to start earlier despite the fact that there has been good weather? Because you don't plan like that, do you?

No, it doesn't really work like that with weather. It is what it is. Men jag upplever inte att vi har haft tidigare start. Det är liksom inte riktigt det som triggade.

Här kan vi kommentera det. Det som sa att det är väldigt planlagt med hur man tar in anställda, man har startmöten och man har reparationer och underhåll. Så det är oftast ingen vinning att starta något tidigare, det bara stör planeringen. Det som ibland kan hända med ett gynnsamt väder är att man kan förlänga säsongen i andra änden, att man kan hålla på lite närmare in i december och sådant men man brukar aldrig starta tidigare utan man håller sig på plan.

Bara för att följa upp där då. Om jag inte kommer ihåg fel så var det ganska för aktig situation i Q4 24 så att Den är lite utmanande givet, vi vet inte vad det blir för värde i år så att säga, men är det korrekt?

Det var ju en osevanligt mild vinter, det är väl rätt.

Sen hade jag en fråga på projektet. Ni har ju ett antal kåkar i Malmö som är fullt uthyrda. Kan det vara 700 miljoner? Ja, vi har två frågor på den. Det ena är I don't know how it turned out when you switched it over. Is it still for the purchase price or was it for the market value? That's question one. Just to understand if there will be an upside if you sell them there. And then question two is, well, the transaction market has come along a little bit at least. möjligheterna att stänga någon affär i den där gruppen under året eller finns det anledning till för er att behålla det där under en längre tid?

Men om vi tar bokförda världen och hit och dit så får Niklas ta den men jag kan börja i den andra då och det är klart att vi vi är ju inte liksom en långsiktigt fastighetsägande koncern utan vi är ju projektutvecklare men Just these properties that we are sitting on now in Varsalen, it is very attractive conditions. And I do not think that these properties will be worth less over time, but I think they will be worth more. What do I want to say about that? I want to say that I do not have any panic to sell it, but I say at the same time that we are not long-term owners. And then you can take the book for it.

Yes, when it comes to these properties, they are i våra böcker upptagna till ursprungliga anskaffningsvärden, alltså ursprungskostnaden. Så att i och med att vi har ägt dem i och för sig ett joint venture under ett tag och sedan backat, men det är ursprungligt anskaffningskostnad som vi har dem till så att ett marknadspris överstigande det kommer ge full effekt i PM-koncernen.

Last question for me, I don't know if I've asked it before and what you can answer, but you have bought a road business earlier in the EU and are forward-looking if the opportunity gives. I'm thinking a little bit, NCC is looking to sell its road business, would there be anything in it that you would like to have?

The accommodation business is something that we like, no secret. And as you said, we made a big structural business when we bought ITS parts. We have a relatively large market share in Sweden. The competition authorities put a framework around what you can and cannot do. They have no business with regard to accommodation in Finland. They have sold it. In Norway, we are more likely to have gone down. And in Denmark, we are there. You could think of different types of structural processes there. It's not like we can go in and say that we are interested in buying the entire NCCS business, because it's either you can or you don't want to. There we are.

Yes, perfect. Thank you, Stefan.

Thank you, Stefan. Now it looks like there are no more questions on the phone. However, I have received a question from Simen on DNB. Simen Mortensen. I'll read it in English. Tax rate in first quarter is at only 9%. What is the reason for this low level? And any comment on a full year estimate on tax rate?

The first quarter, as you have seen here, is a quarter where we have a negative result before tax. Some of the businesses that we have a negative result in, we do not tax. That tax, and this is for the sake of caution, we start to calculate when they are in a positive position and can be taxed instead. When the result is as small in a low-activity quarter as it is now, it also has a big effect. A few tens of millions there makes the tax return suddenly halved. But if we look at our business as it stands and goes now, we are counting on that we will be able to have an effective tax situation, which means that we have a calculated tax that is at the level of the tax return for the whole year.

Bra. Tack för det, Niklas. Då ser det inte ut som att det är några fler frågor eller frågeställare. Utan vi får helt enkelt tacka för att ni har deltagit idag. Och så kan vi också säga att nästa rapport, alltså halvårsrapporten efter andra kvartalet, publicerar vi den 15 juli, mitt i sommaren. Så vi hörs då, om inte förr. Stort tack för idag.

Tack så mycket. Hej.