Platzer Fastigheter Holding AB (publ)

Varmt välkomna till våran Q4-rapport och bokslutskommitté. Det här är Johanna Hultgren som pratar, vd, och med mig har jag dig, Fredrik.

Fredrik Sjölin, CFO, och nu presenterar vi vår kommunikation för 2023.

Om vi då ska summera det här året så är vi otroligt glada över det här fina driftsöverskottet som är vårt högsta hittills. We have increased to over 1.1 billion, and it is of course a lot of hard work from the organization to reach those figures. We also have a positive net sales for Q4, which is 6 million, and this year it is 44 million. Of these 6 million, a lot of it is in our administrative staff, which is important in this market, and I will come back to that. The surplus increases to 78%. And when we look at our leg industry and logistics, we have 133,000 square meters that are completed and moved here during the year. And of course, it contributes very nicely with a good direct discount and complement to our office stock. I think we will win the whole industry in 2023 due to the unrealized negative value changes that we have taken up. That was the challenge for this year. We have adjusted to minus 1.3 billion under 2023. Our board proposes a share of 2 kronor per share. As you know, we are a Gothenburg-focused company. This is where we have our entire stock. I will tell you a little bit about how the economic activity in Gothenburg looks right now. We are in a low-conjuncture like the rest of Sweden. 100 is what you usually call a normal conjucture, so we went to 88.2. With that said, we actually feel that we have a fairly uneven market based on the production industry, which we are very dependent on, and it is also very export-focused. It's going well. It has even turned slightly upwards, so it's at almost 105 in this last quarter. And the industries that are struggling are construction, trade and the service sector, above all. Tittar vi på Göteborgs näringsliv och ekonomi som sådant så har vi då en situation där vi har en tillväxt under 23 på 1,5% och det som förespås framåt här ifrån Business Region Göteborg som gör sina analyser utifrån Konjunkturinstitutets rapporter så ser vi då en tillväxt på 1,4% i de exportviktat då i de tio viktigaste marknaderna. And the exports are increasing. The USA is doing well, and it affects our region a lot. Europe is doing a little worse. And inflation and interest rates, as you know, are going down. But we also have a city that is growing. From 2021 to October 23, the city has grown with 33,000 new employment opportunities. And that, of course, drives a lot of the office sector for us. Vi kommer ifrån en ganska bra sysselsättning, en väldigt hög tillväxttakt i Göteborg. Här ser vi de nivåerna som ligger från 2009 till 2022. De släpar ju alltid ett år de här tyvärr. Tillväxttakten har legat på 72% i regional BNP. Då ska man jämföra med 17% för Eurozonen och Stockholm ligger ju någonstans på So we are coming from high levels, but of course we are feeling the low-conjuncture. Combined with the fact that we have a newly produced stock that came out of the office here during 2022. I'm talking about this for those of you who were with us during our presentation as well. Then 175,000 square meters were released on the market. And what we can see from this is, of course, that we get a flight to quality, where many companies move to these new office buildings, which in principle are actually full now. Therefore, it is very, very important for us when we talk about the opportunities to rent out in our existing office space in offices. These 14.5 million that we put here in Q4 are 13 million i vårt befintliga stock av kontor. Och det är klart att det är för oss viktigt i den här marknaden, för det är där vi har konkurrensen. Vi känner inte sådär jättetydligt av en försvagning i marknaden, inte heller på hyresnivåerna, de ligger i princip still. So, we can't see any very clear evidence of tax evasion yet, but we are also satisfied that there is an increased risk of rent impact in the coming quarters, especially if we get companies on non-existence. So with that said, and a growing city at about 11,000 per year when it comes to increased employment, we also see that this peak is going to plan out. And the latest reports here from Citymark, which they have done and directed to the office market, show that De projekt som ligger framåt och den vakansgrad som ligger idag kommer vara uppe ett om tio år. Det motsvarar ungefär 522 000 kvadratmeter som kommer behövas på marknaden i den tillväxttakt som staden går. I vårt eget bestånd så ligger vår ekonomiska uthyrningsgrad kvar på 92% och den kvadratmetervakansgraden har faktiskt sjunkit i... i fyra av sju delområden för oss. Totalt ligger vakansgraden i Göteborg idag på 11 procent, ska jag säga. Stockholm och Malmö ligger ju någonstans mellan 10 och 12 också. Men för oss i Göteborg är 11 procent en hög nivå. Och därav är vi ju då fokuserade väldigt mycket på kund. Kvartalets nettutgivning, 6 miljoner har jag pratat om. And then it is almost final in our full-owned administration of offices that the rents have occurred. We have an average rent increase in the negotiations that we have done during the year, which is 12%. I know you will ask about that. And the rent growth has increased by a total of 18%, 224 million kronor during the year. These are our ten largest customers. What we should keep an eye on here is that we have extended the time for our remaining contract period. It is now 52 months in our contract period. 23% of our tenants are public businesses. And when we talk about this with customers and revenue, which is incredibly important for us, I want to hand it over to you, Fredrik. You're going to talk a little bit about net of change.

Yes. We have a good year. We have some different factors. It will be a memorable year, 2023, with a decline in inflation. But the interest we have had to handle, but then we have our business to maneuver our own cash flows. That's what we mostly have the ability to do. The rest we need to handle during the journey. We are entering this year with an income volume of 1.2 billion SEK from 2022. And we are coming out with almost 1.5 billion SEK on the income side. The contribution to this increase is partly our acquisition from Sörred Logistikpark, our JV, together with Bokkasjö, which we did in the half-year shift. So we have a half-year effect with us there for the three properties. Then we have further investments in the KNEUM project, which is now finished. The big project is finished. Then, as always, the development of the property We have a net effect from the electricity support for the whole year on plus 8.5 million, because you see the corresponding post. directly below this graph, which contributes positively on the cost side. We communicated in Q2 that we had plus 5 million in the result effect, but we ended the year at plus 8.5. Then we have a major contributor, which is the index calculation, which in our portfolio gives an effect of 100 million kronor. On the cost side, as I mentioned, we have inflows, which also leads to some extra costs. We have the electricity support that I also mentioned, and then we have an increased electricity cost compared to the previous year. And that mostly depends on the fact that the previous year we had a liquid oil that was successively, and now that it is too expensive this year, it is mostly due to the fact that we have a safe electricity price, because we sleep a little better at night and know what we are going to pay in the future. Netto came out on a turnover of over 1.1 billion. 1 billion is 132 million. We strengthen our turnover rate from 76 to 78 percent, which is very strong. There are few one-time effects if we look at the whole year. We have There is a certain tax effect. Then we have the electricity support that we all have with us. But it is a very strong turnover when we come out of the year. We have a good trend. The line is rolling four quarters and rolling twelve months. A good increase over 2023. We look at the annual figures on the line. Och även bra utfall kvartalsvis som successivt har vuxit sig starka. Om vi tittar på de sista två kvartalen specifikt så har vi att det ser väldigt lågt ut i kvartal 3 och väldigt högt i kvartal 4. Där har vi en del effekter. Ni som följde oss i Q3-rapporteringen så hänvisar vi till När vi tog in förvärvet att vi hade mer fastighetskostnader än vad som var representativt beroende på redovisning. Det här är nu åtgärdat så nettoeffekten mellan de här två kvartalen är netto noll. Men vi har en förskjutning mellan kvartalen på 14 miljoner. 14 miljoner positivt i Q3 och negativt i Q4. Det finns i rapporten på sidan 19 kan vi titta på. But the whole year, all in all, a sovereign, strong year, 1.1 billion, turnover. And if we look at it from that perspective, if we look forward, what are we going to do? Then we have our ability to earn. If you take the ability to earn from last December, the previous year, and roll it forward, and then look at the decline for that year, so how well do they fit together? And as you can see in this graph, so Lira staplarna hyggligt. De helröda är inkörningsförmågan som från föregående år tittar ett år framåt. Sedan har vi utfallet. Utfall för 2023 väl i nivå med kommunicerad inkörningsförmåga. And 2024 hasn't really happened yet, but the best we know is that our signed agreements, which are represented by the income capacity and what it predicts in the future, and that's plus 200 million. And now it's not possible to break it down linearly into quarterly figures, but this is an annual figure, signed agreements, those that come into our results within six months. which are represented here, and you can see more about that in the report. Despite the good business, our core business, where we manage ourselves, we have a negative result for the whole year of almost minus one billion. And the big driver to that is our change in property value. We have a portfolio of 27 billion SEK this year, and 28.25 billion SEK. Then we have our investment business, where we invest 1.3 billion SEK. We have an acquisition of almost 1.5 billion SEK. And we have sales of over 200 million SEK. In between, we have unrealized value changes, which are netting out to 1.3 billion SEK. And when I say net, it consists of several components, and that is partly what we do ourselves, what we advise ourselves, that is to work with our cash flows, increase our revenues, reduce our costs, refine and renovate our properties and project development. If you sum up the two left-hand stocks, it will be 800 million plus. Then we have a yield effect that goes into our portfolio for 2023 of minus 2.1 billion, net 1.3 when it comes out. If we count from our all-time low regarding the average yield in the portfolio that we had in Q2 2022, we have a netto effect of 3.8 billion, or a brutto effect of 3.8 billion income related to yield, which has contributed to the negative unrealized value changes. So this is a challenge and a consequence of the context in which we are going to finance ourselves. Given the rising interest rate, the GIL follows up with it. However, we have a challenge in our values. There are no transactions to follow up on, but we will come back to that later. Det positiva vad gäller ränta för platser och vår portfölj då är det att vi har knäckt kurvan något mellan kvartalen. När vi kommer ut ur Q3 så har vi en utgående snittränta på 4,31. När vi kommer ut ur Q4 så har vi en utgående snittränta på 4,15. Så det är ju en... Good trend for us. It has also contributed to that we turn the trend with the development of the interest rate, which has been negative, as you can see in the lower graph. Q3, isolated, we were at about 1.8-1.9 in ICR. And when we come out of Q2, we have plus 2.1, which means that even that trend has turned. The annual figure for our interest rate is 2.2 times, which is recent for us. Ja, ett viktigt och väsentligt nyckeltal att ha fokus på. Loan to value, belåningsgrad, ligger kvar på 49% lik förra kvartalet. Vi kom ut föregående år, låg vi på 44 då. Men det är ju givet att värdet går ner, även om det har samma skuld då, så ökar ju den belåningsgraden. Så det är någonting som vi har att hantera. Men vi kan inte råda över det. Här... Apart from that, we have financing. We have a portfolio of around 14 billion in debt to handle, and we have future declines. This is to show how much of our portfolio is linked to the capital market compared to the banking market. The grey stacks here are within the first quarter, our certificate program, which naturally declines within a quarter. In addition, we have a November decline in an obligation in its own name of 400 million SEK and further forward, further a couple of both partially secured and non-secured obligations. But considering that the market has brightened up, there have been positive signs. It's not just the A-segment, the A-rated segment, that can do business on the capital market to reasonable conditions, but also the B-segment. And the B-segment, when we talk about ratings, the triple B-segment can also come out on reasonable levels and start The bank is approaching marginals, which puts a positive pressure on the market so that we can reduce financing costs related to capital. which we see as very positive. Since it is a very good complement for places and our business with our progress forward, since we are still going to have an investment pipeline and work with our projects and need to complement that function. We have 80% bank financing, 87% is secured financing, so it is not a factor that makes our income dependent on it. It was a very good compliment for us to work forward in our work. Then we have sustainability, which is a dear subject that we work with every day. Johanna will take over.

Yes, that's right. And Fredrik, you just talked about financing, and there is a place in one of the first companies that actually took this Green Label, Nasdaq Green Equity designation. And it feels very relevant for us to work with sustainability in many ways. Financing is one of them. We have continued to work with our energy consumption during 2023. We have done that for many years. We have achieved an efficiency of 9%, which we are very pleased with. We now have 20 solar facilities, for example, which are part of this. We have also worked with CO2 emissions. Here we have made an improvement of 23% from the fact that we have reduced our emissions and we have introduced recycling in all of our rental guest adaptations in our stock. And on that topic, we have also started up, together with some partners in our industry, Castellum, Åsa Kronan, and Kolthorst Bygg, have initiated this reconstruction initiative, Re-bygg. And it's really about buying and selling recycled materials, so that we can reduce our total... ...climate pollution. That's the word I was looking for. As you know, we work a lot with the development of our area. That's how we build our worlds and the closeness to our customers. On the far left, you can see Gårda Kineum, which adorns our city as a landmark. It was completed here about a year ago. I Gårda har vi ju ganska mycket annat bestånd också som får hjälp utav den här typen utav stark områdesutveckling då. Gårdatorget är ett sådant som vi som vi håller på att utveckla just nu och även i Norra Gårda har vi gjort spännande uttydningar till Medieinstitutet bland annat. Gamlestaden är ju det äldsta delen av Göteborg. Det är faktiskt 550 år gammalt så det lödlöser det var där Göteborg en gång And Gamlestaden is an area that we are long-term developing. We have a lot of projects going on there. It's a foodtech area. And as we have said before, we have a lot of exciting guests. Among other things, the Nordic headquarters for Piccadilly, which we are working on a project and an adaptation for. Lilla Bommen, there we have our office and we have moved to this area during the autumn. It is an area that we want to continue to develop. The ARIA project is here. A part of Gothenburg is located right next to the central station, and since the west link is starting to get clear, we get better contact with the three minutes from the central station. It has been very busy around here, but here we have already made very nice additions in the ARIA project, among other things. Arendal, Torslanda, this is our industry and logistics branch in Sweden's strongest logistics area. And here the vacancy rate is very low in total in industrial logistics in Gothenburg. It is below 2%. And this is an area where we have done many projects. I started with that. We have had six projects here this year, three of them together with Bokasjö in a JV and three on their own machines. But we actually have a lot of nice things left to develop in this area. Another area that is a strategic development area and a strategic area for us on site is Möndal. And I got quite a lot of questions regarding our acquisition of MIMO from NCC, which is planned to be done here during Q4 2024. Möndal is a strong development municipality. They have been assigned and ended up on the top spot in the year's super municipality a number of times in recent years. Det ligger precis vid resecentret i Möndal. Det är en stad som växer otroligt kraftigt i en del av Göteborg. Det är en egen stad. Här har vi idag 13-14 tågavgångar per timme. Det kommer att öka till 46-47 när Västlänken och länken mot Landvetter blir klar. Det är några år kvar, men ett strategiskt område för oss att växa i. Cellerit MIMO is NCC, and it is a combination business that we did in connection with the opening of KNEUM 2017. Preliminary attendance is Q4-24, provided that the attendance requirements are met. Today it is 60% out. One of the entry requirements is 80% for entry. We are very happy that Capbar's headquarters, which announced two weeks ago, will move in here. It is a strong company and brand. So it's a little short about Mimo and our investment in Möndal. But I wanted to round off with our success factors that we identified. We are experts in Gothenburg and want to be the partner that you should naturally turn to both as a customer and as a city when we want to take this city to the next level. We put our customers in focus, it is very important for us and we have a profitable growth plan that builds on, among other things, the development of the area. We also have a diversified portfolio with industry, logistics and offices. The office accounts for about 75% of the stock today. We have a very nice, committed team of employees here that I have gotten to know during the fall. And I am incredibly proud of them who come every day. And we have a stable financing and owner. And we see that as our success factors. And with that, I would like to hand over to QNACE.

Om du vill ställa en fråga, tryck fyrkant 5 på din telefon för att ställa dig i kön. Om du vill dra tillbaka din fråga, vänligen tryck fyrkant 6. Nästa fråga kommer från Marcus Henriksson från ABG Sandakajer. Varsågod!

Thank you. Good morning Joanna and Fredrik. A few questions from me. First and foremost about value changes. In Q2 and Q3 you wrote down values with about 2% per quarter. And now in Q4 you wrote down values with about 0.5%. How have the external values resonated during the quarter?

Vi gör ju en benchmark värdering. Vår värdering är baserad på en intern värdering. Sen så gör vi en benchmark för att få importen att takta väl med externvärderaren så att vi inte divergerar från de siffrorna. Resonemangen har ju varit att yielden har gått uppåt i de flesta områden. Mer tryck på lägre yieldade and a little less pressure on higher yielded properties. That is the general picture. And when we net out, we are nicely in line. It is a marginal deviation, I would say, compared to external valuations. But the general picture has been yield up and then Is there a certain caution about the rental income assumption then? But there we are now with inflation assumptions forward at 2%, so it's a little back to basics as it was earlier that has come down. But the summary is valid.

Jep, tack så mycket. Sen lyfter ni fram 14 miljoner i jämförelsesstörande här i Q4. Ni skriver även att den justerade driftnettomarginalen blir 77% och jag får det till drygt 78% om man tar kvartalet syresintäkter och sen då ökar kostnaderna med 14 miljoner. Så finns det ytterligare egångskostnader eller är det en typo att det inte är en marginal på 77 justerat?

It should be 77% adjusted. There are more adjustment posts in between. The 14 is a difference between Q3 and Q4, isolated. And then we have some tax effect in between. But no, it should land at 77% and it adjusted for Q3 at 79%. The whole year is what it is, so to speak. It always takes into account, then and there, the need for the well-known one-off effects that we have, connected to electricity support, given that it is a one-off effect. But it comes out for the whole year at 78%.

Okay. And you also write electricity support, that it is 8.5 million net on the power grid. What was that figure isolated in Q4?

Isolated in Q2, after we took it up in Q2 with a net positive effect of 5, then it is a net positive effect in Q4 of 3.5.

Thank you. Then I see that you have drawn a lot of interest swaps. It goes from 6.6 billion to 8.3 here in Q4. Have you continued to draw additional interest swaps in Q1? And how do you think about the current pricing?

Our swaps are a long-term problem that we have linked to our financial policy and our risk management mechanism. We need to have a certain volume. We need to handle and draw new swaps depending on duration and debt volume. Then we have also seen that i den här marknaden så har det varit en gynnsam effekt. Vi har ju ökat, vi ligger med något mer räntesäkring nu procentellt sett än vad vi historiskt brukar göra. Det vi har gjort därefter, vi har inte gjort några manöver efter Q4 i den stora kontexten. Det är en miljard 650 miljoner som gjordes under kvartal fyra. Out of them, 300 million is driven by duration, but beyond that, it is driven by cash flow and increased debt.

Great, thanks for that. Then I see that your recognition capacity, if you look at the operating net, increases by about 4% sequentially. Includerar ni indexering i intjäningsomågan och i så fall hur mycket har ni inkluderat?

Det är signade avtal, enkom. Den indexering som ligger så vi har ingen spekulation i index.

So this is the recognition capacity per 31 December, or is it per 1 January?

We do it per last December and from 1 January forward. So we have with us index from... All contracts that come into force within six months will be included. And then there is the October index effect from 2023 that will come into our inventory in the future. Very good.

Thank you very much. That was my question.

Thank you, Marcus.

The next question comes from Albin Sandberg from Kepler Kävre. Welcome.

Tack så mycket. Jag tänkte också ha en utföljningsfråga på värderingen och kanske den här benchmarken ni gör med externa värderare. Checken är att yielden fortsätter upp samtidigt med de kraftiga rörelserna man såg på räntemarknaden. Hur alignar de så att säga? Hade det varit ännu mer uppsida risk på yielden känner ni om we would not have had this interest rate movement, or is it this continuous lag that we sometimes talk about, that the valuers tend to come a little later than what reality gives?

I think as you say, more on the lag, it is also a... I'm going to look here and now and forward, but a certain lag I assume it is, but our market value per quarter should be per per that it should be transferred there and then. Then there is a sluggishness in the market and if we have a transfer rate that goes down to 10% earlier or 20% in Gothenburg, it is difficult to measure, we are down to 0%.

Yes, there have been some office transactions since the spring of 2022 actually and it has happened a little bit on the logistics side and there are the guilds in the very best positions at around 5%. Så det var ju väldigt snabbt att justera sig just på industrilogistik. Men kontor har ju liksom ingen evidens i marknaden än.

Det krävs ju två bevis i marknaden. Det är ju räntan ner och transaktioner som bekräftar läget. Men vi är trygga med vår värdering och den processen.

Och sen tänker jag på hyresnivåerna. Du nämnde lite, det är klart att det kan komma konkurser och så vidare om marknaden dyker ned kraftigt. Men hur känner ni annars när vi går in i 2024? Känner ni att det finns någon nedsida risk på hyrorna när de kommer att omförhandlas? Eller är marknaden tillräckligt stark för att hålla sig där den är trots den här utbudsschocken som ändå...

Vi känner ju att vi har rätt bra tryck i våran pipeline. Det är ju ödmjukt inför att vi har haft år bakom oss nu som har varit svåra att förutsäga. Men just här och nu, där vi står nu, så har vi bra förfrågningar. Vi gör uppenbarligen en bra utsigning i det befintliga beståndet. Yes, and then we will have to say how low the economy is for as long as it remains. This of course depends a lot on the labor market. And the crown too, of course, in an export-dependent region as we are.

The index levels are confirmed, since there are still negotiations on higher levels than the index. So it is stable from that perspective. In the near future, we do not see any adjustment downwards on the rents.

Omförhandlingen är ju 12 procent. Det ligger en bit över index under hela året. Det var 18 procent i kvartalet. Men det kanske är bättre att titta på helår när man pratar om de frågorna som vi gör nu. Hyrorna ligger ju liksom kvar. De har inte dykt. Ja.

Det där med just nu. Just det. Nu när ni tittar på att eventuellt sätta spaden i marken på nya projekt, är det en viss förhöjdsnivå som krävs eller är ni beredda att vara på det mystiska där ni tror på det eller är det fortsatt lite ner åt det försiktiga hållet 2024?

We always make a determination based on the level of exposure and how the market looks here and then. In every project, no matter if it's big or small, we make that determination all the time. But of course, in this context, we try to be smart with the investments we make. So we make profitable investments, of course.

What do you think, Johanna? I think it would take 10 years to get home this potential over-vacancy. It sounds very far, but it is still possible. I have to explain it.

With 10 years left, it has been said that they have laid out 15 projects that could start within Gothenburg over in the next 9-10 years. And then you have taken the current vacancies that exist in the market and put it on. Then you get a volume out of it. Then you assume that all those projects, you can think about it right now in this market, if all those projects are really going to start. But even when you do that, you put it against the sustainable development. You expect that there will be 88,000 new jobs or something in the next 10 years in Gothenburg. And then it is the conservative calculation. And And if you put this out on each other, then we see that it quickly becomes a shortage again, because we have had a little bit of that concern in Gothenburg, that it has come out evenly, the number of square meters on the market, as it might do on other markets, and the reason for that is that a lot of the land is owned by the city. It's quite different, since there are a lot of old mining areas and industrial areas in Gothenburg that are relocated to the inner city. So it's the city that shows the land. So we can see these peaks or dips that come, depending on what kind of landings that come out. And it has not been a landings in Gothenburg city commercially now on... I have not checked the exact year, but I would say seven years or something like that. Så det är därför som det går faktiskt hyfsat bra att bedöma vad det är som kommer ut. Det skiljer sig lite i Göteborg faktiskt utifrån det. Det är så väldigt mycket mark som är ägt utav stan i de här centrala lägena.

Jättebra. Tack för det. Det var mina frågor.

Tack även. Ja, nu fick vi en fråga här i chatten.

The next question is from Marcus Henriksson from ABG Sandalkaier. Please go ahead.

I would like to ask a few more questions. I am thinking about Syrhola 3.1 and Syrhola 2.3. They are finished here in the first and second quarter. The first mentioned is up to 56 percent. Partly a little about interest for the continued vacancy. And then a little more details about when in time these projects are expected to generate revenue, so when the tenants actually move in.

Yes, we are actually working on some sharp questions right now on the vacant area. So I hope we can return to that in the next quarter. I hope we can move forward there.

Den icke-vakanta är ju inflyttad, eller det pågår en inflyttning där, successivt.

Svarar vi på den frågan nu?

Och sen var det 2-3 anser jag, rolla 2-3.

Vad var frågan om 2-3?

Inflytt, och det är i samband med färdigställande.

All right, då har vi något mer exakt. Är det första april eller är det sista juni?

Can you repeat that?

Yes, thank you.

I would like to ask about the project ARIA.

It is also being completed under Q2 2024. You have a part of it that has already been moved in and we have revenue that contributes. Could we get an update on how much revenue is generated right now from these projects? Hyresvärdet totalt 61 miljoner. Sen har ni ju Capio flyttat in senare i år och hur ser intresset ut för de här 30% av vakanta ytorna som fortsatt finns?

Nu kan vi kommentera. Vi har gjort en del uthyrningar i ARIA under detta senaste kvartalet. Lite svårt faktiskt att kommunicera vilka bolag det är med respekt för att de har sina interna processer. Vi tycker också faktiskt att en hel del av våra i Gullbergs Vassur Lilla Bomen, ett av våra fokuserade områden här, så har vi ju gjort rätt många faktiskt uthyrningar det senaste kvartalet just, de flesta nästan i dem. Så vi har, jag har hela den här listan här framför mig. på vilka de är. Jag kan tyvärr inte kommunicera vilka alla är. De har inte kommunicerat allting själva internt. Så den får jag... Den får jag kanske vänta mig till vi får ut våra pressmedlen och vilka de är.

Det låter fullt rimligt. Det vi är mer intresserade av, eller jag och jag tror några andra, det är ändå ett ganska stort projekt. Så det är just hur mycket potential det finns kvar, hur mycket som bidrar nu, men då vet ni i alla fall det att that I and others would like to know. Last question. You invested about 1.4 billion in 2022 and 2023. And you have mentioned that you probably, or hopefully, will invest 1.5 billion in Q4-24, MIMO. And what do you think about CAPEX in general? Since... Vi i alla fall hittills nu ser en hel del färdigställanden i 24, men ingenting 25. Så planer kring CAPEX?

Vi vet ju ganska väl första året 2024. Vi vet ju vad vi är kommittade till där. Det är inga It's quite a long period of time at the start, so Capex will go down year on year. That's what we know. The conditions have become tougher, and then the pace itself has decreased. We don't give any forecasts, but one guidance is that the pace will end in 2024. That's what we know. Vi har god komfort i den för det är ju kända fakta så vi vet ganska väl vad vi kommer att sysselsätta oss med vad gäller kassaflödet ut under 2024. Men vi lämnar inte prognoser så till vida mer än det som går att baklängesräkna ut ur rapporter på projektsidan då, de stora projekten.

Tack för det och en sista uppföljning. Om nu projektmarknaden skulle potentiellt kunna återkomma lite lägre räntor och arbetslösheten inte blir så farlig som vissa företag kanske befarar. Vad ligger närmast i tid? Ni har pratat innan kring Gamlestaden. Kan ni lyfta lite på de här möjliga utvecklingsprojekten? Vad som skulle kunna komma närmast?

Gamlestaden is one of them. We are still running projects there. We haven't started any of the really big ones, of course, as you know. But we are running a continuous project in Gamlestaden, so you will see us active there. We also have a farm that is located here in Lilla Bommen, which we have an option to acquire from the city. which I think is perhaps our next largest office project that can start. But we have a lot left in our industrial logistics pipeline. There we actually have quite a lot of building rights that are left. And the nice thing about them is that they are, partly they are manageable in terms of size, in terms of investment, but they are also very fast. So you don't bind the capital without cash flow, especially for a long time. You do such a project, Thank you very much.

Det finns inga fler frågor just nu, så jag lämnar över ordet till talarna för eventuella skriftliga frågor och avslutande kommentarer.

Vi har en fråga i vår chatt här ifrån Ida och den lyder så här. Hur sugna är ni på att bygga Polestars huvudkontor i Frihamnen och hur ser ni på Frihamnen som ett område för platser att delta i i stadsutvecklingen? Frihamnen, for those of you who don't know it, is located right on the first stop on the Hissing side. It's actually 500-700 meters from the central station, so it's very, very central. That's where the banana boats used to lie earlier. And it's an area that Gothenburg City owns and has then allocated to Polestar. as a possible landmark. Polestad's new development office will be located here in Gothenburg. It was a pretty tough competition between different places in the world until you landed here. It is of course very exciting from a development perspective in Gothenburg. Polestar will soon be looking for their own value, so it will be their decision which part they choose. And yes, we are absolutely interested in being part of that process.

That was the last question. Så vi tackar för intresset och tackar för att ni har följt oss och vår presentation av kommunikationen för 2023.