RaySearch Laboratories AB (publ)

Hello and welcome to the presentation of Research Interim Report for the first quarter of 2025. My name is Henrik Preyfors and I will be the moderator today. Joining us in today's call is Johan Lööf, Research Founder and CEO, and Nina Grönberg, our CFO. Johan and Nina will give you a brief summary of the quarter, including the financials, and after that, we open up for questions. I also want to remind you that this session is being recorded, and you will be able to find it on our website in the upcoming days. With that, I hand it over to you, Johan. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Henrik. I would also like to welcome all of you to today's webcast. I'm happy to announce that our sales for the first quarter were our highest ever, 332 million Swedish crowns. Compared with the same period of 2024, the increase was 29%. Operating profit was 75 million, corresponding to an operating margin of 23%. The improved margin was mainly driven by increased license revenue, which amounted to 165 million, Because of the political turbulence in the US, operating profit was affected more than usual by exchange rate fluctuations. Excluding those, operating profit would have been 95 million Swedish crowns, which corresponds to an operating margin of 29%. Order intake was 410 million, representing a 72% increase. To summarize, we're maintaining a solid momentum and outlook for continued growth remains very positive. In addition, Ray Search has a strong financial position with cash and cash equivalents of 503 billion Swedish crowns, stable cash flow and no loans. In early March, Heiyu Hospital in Foshan City in China, placed an order for Ray Station worth 77 million Swedish crowns. Of this, 26 million was recognized in the first quarter. This is the third largest order in research history and the biggest we've had since December 2022. Apart from the large order value, what makes this agreement exciting is that Heijou is the first customer to use RayStation with a combined Hitachi carbon iron machine and proton machine. This will also be using the They will also be using the system for their conventional focal therapy. The order strengthens our already solid market leader position in treatment planning for particle therapy. Moving to Europe, Odense University Hospital in Southern Denmark also placed an order for RayStation. The hospital is known for its advanced use of automation, to deliver high quality and efficient cancer care. The majority of the order, valued at around 15 million, excluding service contracts, was recognized as revenue in the first quarter. With registration, the center is taking a major step forward in automating the entire treatment planning process. It's a great example of how hospitals are using our technology to advance the field of treatment planning. The Royal Marston NHS Foundation Trust in the UK has become the first hospital to treat a patient using a new adaptive replanning module, including in the latest RayStation release. This new module allows for faster, more efficient treatment adjustments, which saves valuable time for both clinicians and patients. The next step for Marston in the development is to add RayCare, as this could further reduce treatment time. We're looking forward to continuing our close collaboration with the professional team at Marston. As I just mentioned, the new adaptive replanning module is included in the latest version of RayStation, which was launched last week. We have continued our efforts to automate as much as possible of the treatment planning process And apart from the replanning module, the new version includes an updated plan explorer, which now works together with our latest methods for automated treatment planning, that is machine learning and ECHO. In the area of machine learning, we have improved performance and added models with several new plan types. ECHO is an algorithm developed by Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York, and it has now been integrated into RayStation. Both of these methods simplify the workflow for creating individually tailored treatment plans and reduce the time required compared to manual planning. The planning results are also more consistent and reproducible, which supports a more standardized care for patients. The new version of registration also includes extended support for treatment planning with the Leo Cancer Care upright patient positioning system. Okay, so now let's take a closer look at the financial. So please, Nina, go ahead.

Thank you, Johan. The first quarter in 2025 was really an overall strong quarter. Net sales increased with 29%, from 257 last year to 332 million in 2025. Adjusted for currency effects, the growth was 26%, since we had a stronger average Swedish crown in the first quarter last year. The sale of licenses amounted to 165 million, corresponding to a growth of 39%, and the support revenue amounted to 125 million, which is an increase of 17% compared to last year. Order intake in the first quarter was strong and increased 72% from 239 to 410 million. And this is including 77 million from the Chinese Heiyu order, which Johan also mentioned, is the third largest order ever. The order intake for licenses were up 42%, ending at 159 million, and the order intake for support increased 151% to 201 million. The operating expenses for the period amounted to 216 million compared to 193 in the same quarter last year, which corresponds to a 12% increase. The increase is due to that we have a higher number of employees now than we had one year ago. The high level of net sales brought an operating profit of 75 million and an operating margin of 23%. And that is five percentage points higher than last year's 18. Operating profit last year was 46 million. Cash flow from operations amounted to 147 million in the quarter compared to 167 million last year. The decrease compared to last year is due to a strong cash flow in the first quarter last year, and that we paid taxes in January 2025, but that belonged to the net earnings of 2024. The net cash flow for the period was 66 million, and cash conversion was 156%. The cash position at the end of the period amounts to 503 million. Moving on, looking at the development of EBIT and EBIT margin quarter by quarter for the last two years, it is visible that quarter one is normally one of the weakest quarters and that the outcome of the first 2025 quarter stands out. The operating margin in the first quarter 2025 is on a steady 23% despite that it has been affected by 20 million in currency losses recognized in the P&L. The rolling 12 development graph displays research last two years of steady growths in total 46% and with a CAGR of 29% and with an increasing operating margin over the quarters. Net sales for the last 12-month period now amounts to almost 1.3 billion and EBIT for the same period amounts to 290 million, which means an operating margin of 23%. Moving on to the next slide, this is the research growth journey from 2008, also showing the increased robustness in the business from a larger portion of recurring support revenue during the last years. The backlog end of March amounted to 1 billion 734 million, of which 546 million is expected to generate net sales in the next coming 12-month period. Book-to-bill in the quarter was above 1.2 and the decrease in the backlog compared to December 2024 is in its total related to currency revaluation. Here it is important to bear in mind that our backlog stretches over several years, and that the value will bounce back when and if the Swedish crown becomes weaker again. That was all from me. Moving back to you, Johan.

Thank you very much, Nina.

To summarise, I'm very happy for this strong start of 2025. This quarter is actually the first time we achieved record sales in the first quarter. Historically, this typically occurred in the last quarter of the year. Since 2023, we have focused on improving our operating margin. And now with an operating margin of 23% for the quarter and 22% for the full year 2024, I feel confident that we are on the right track and will achieve our goal of achieving a minimum operating margin of 25% by 2026. So with yet another sales record and continuously growing support revenue, I'm looking forward to an exciting year with continued growth.

Thank you. Thank you, Johan and Nina.

We will now open up the floor for questions. You may either ask your question verbally by raising your hand, by pressing the raise button on the top bar in Teams and wait to be invited and I will allow you to unmute. You can also write your questions in the chat and we will read them and go through them one by one. All right.

The first person with a question is Kristoffer Liljeberg. You should be able to unmute.

It's Kristoffer from Carnegie. Can you hear me? Yes. Great. I have four questions. First, I just wanted to comment on this very strong license sales in the quarter for being a Q1. Is it possible to quantify the amount of, or you could define maybe as large orderings in the quarter versus more underlying or smaller consistent type of sales for license? That's the first one.

Kristoffer, why don't we answer question by question?

Take them one by one.

Thanks. Fundamentally, We published a couple of, especially Heju order that was big, and Odense. But in general, it was more a larger number of medium sized orders and smaller sized orders, except for those big ones. So more a broader

sale of several several orders and should we see this as um you know the natural quarterly variations or do you think this larger number of smaller orders is more consistent as you have grown the install base launched new products etc i think it's a pattern that we've seen for a couple of years now okay but one should also remember that um

We also get these larger orders on a regular basis, but... So they should also be sort of normal. But we are much less... I mean, they constitute a smaller part of the whole currently than they did, if you go back several years, then the entire quarter could depend on a single large order. Now I think we have stayed away from that. actually, yeah.

Okay. And that actually leads me into my second question, which is larger orders. Is it possible to say anything about the timing of the rest of the sales value for the Chinese orders? And if you could maybe also update on the timing of the large future revenues we will have from the therapy deal in Spain.

Right. So out of the

the 77 million from uh for the license revenue or license order from from uh hey you i think uh most of that will be recognized uh no later than next year so um some of it later this year and some but all will be recognized before the end of next year uh regarding ortega which is this um the proton centers in spain that you referred to We see some revenue recognition is expected for the first center towards the end of 2025. And then it will spread out on another two to three years after that. And then, so let's say three years from now, or three years plus from now, all of the Ortega revenues will have been recognized.

And I can add there to the HEJU order that the 77 million also include support for several years ahead. So the license sales will, as Johan said, be recorded as latest in the next year, but the support revenue will come after that.

And how much license revenues do you still have to book from the Chinese fund?

I don't have that number right here at the moment.

No, me neither.

Okay. Then my third question relates to orders and the support. Support and service order book in the quarter seems very large.

if you could comment on that I think even if you if I just for those the large orders you have press release in the quarter I'm a bit surprised about that figure okay it's as we always state and we also say it when we have a lower order intake is that this fluctuates that there is a clear fluctuation between quarter between quarters and This combination of all of those medium... First of all, it relates also to strong sales. As we say, a lot of orders are converted. Most of the orders, licensed orders, are converted into revenue instantly. So that's one part. If you have high net sales, then you also have the same... Those have also been part of the order intake. And then it comes to the... support contracts they can so when we sign support contracts they contribute to the order intake and they can be signed there can be some variation when they can have a lot of them can happen to be in a certain quarter there is no but then the revenue recognition from from this support contract is very well defined But when they contribute to an order intake depends on when they actually come into place. And that can happen, that can be sort of congested or more dense for a certain quarter than other quarters. So it's a combination of these effects.

So the service contract can be signed in a separate quarter from when you get a license deal?

When they are renewed. So maybe a lot of contracts expired now in Q1. That can happen because when you get the first order for the systems, the licenses and so on, you sign a support contract. The length of that support contract varies between customers. It can be four, five, six, it can be 10 years. There is a spectrum.

If I could just ask one more question, that would be helpful. Selling cost, usually they are down in the first quarter versus the fourth quarter, which was not the case this time. I wonder, is there a correlation in a way between a high sales and selling cost that you book a variable pay related to that?

No, no, it's not. the underlying selling costs are driven by the amount of people in the sales organization, but also the amount of travel and the participating, and the larger trade shows have a big effect.

And there haven't been any larger trade shows in the first quarter, right? Correct. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, moving over to Mattias Wadsten. Sorry, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you now.

Good. I also have four questions to start at least. In terms of online adaptive radiotherapy technology, if you could just talk a little bit, help us understand how important this really is to drive customer uptake of both RayStation and RayCare really as well. And maybe a few words on how competitions stack up here in your view and the prospects.

Okay. Yeah, that's a great question. Online adaptive, I would say is one of the major driving forces currently. One could argue, one could discuss whether that's warranted or not, because there are alternative ways of managing these uncertainties. You can do, you haven't, I mean, if you do offline adaptive together with robust optimization, It's also a very strong alternative, but it doesn't matter. This is what the customers want currently. And there's a big hype around online adaptive. And of course we support that very strongly with our software. We sort of had a breakthrough, I would say just a couple of weeks ago when we did our first, well, proof of concept online adaptation. in a bunker with a variant TrueBeam so that we have a RayStation plan and through RayCare it communicates with the TrueBeam and we could run the entire workflow for online adapter with the TrueBeam. That opens up big possibilities that you can have this very common machine. that doesn't have any special adaptive features, but it's fully capable of delivering state-of-the-art online adaptive. I think we clearly have the strongest offering in the market when it comes to software support for adaptive, both offline and online.

Sounds very encouraging. And then if you could elaborate a little bit on the recent steps taken, maybe in liver ablation and the sort of timeline ahead in terms of the regulatory considerations there, perhaps also cover just quickly chemotherapy as well. Although I'm assuming this is more of a 2026 thing, but that's the second one.

Okay. Yeah, we can start with chemo. That's really a 2026 thing. as you may know one component of our future offering will be the quality control device drug log and that is available for sale now and we do sell it a little bit and we sell consumables together with that device but we really see that as an important component of our our software of an important complement to our software offering that will come out in in the form of treatment planning support for chemo in RayStation, workflow management and scheduling, et cetera, in RayCare for chemo. So that's about chemo. And then you asked about liver ablation. So that was released in this version of the RayStation that we released last week, version 2025. We cannot know exactly the regulatory process for the US because it's a new application, but we expect it to have FDA clearance sometime during the fall, and then we can sell it in the US market. But it will be available earlier for the European market, so that's going to happen very soon. I mean, during the summer, it should be available for the European market. But it's hard to make any predictions on where this goes. I think it's an extremely powerful new technology for delivering liver ablation more precisely and accounting for the big deformations that happen in the liver. So long term, this should be a very nice, interesting product.

Thank you. Then it is about the comment in the report where you say three larger contracts accounted for revenue of 54 million in licenses. Just quickly, which ones are those?

Yeah, it's Heijou, Odense and the third one, I'm not sure which one it is. Just give me two seconds.

Just a moment.

Yeah, no worries.

Southampton in the UK.

Thank you very much.

Then my last one, given the margin here in the quarter, I guess 29% excluding the revaluation or the FX impact in the quarter. I think we need to ask the question on how you want to talk about the margin target here for

for next year and yeah how we should think about the margin trajectory that's the last one and thank you for taking the questions all right thank you so no we haven't changed the long term well it's not so long term now anymore but in 2026 we'll have at least 25 percent give it margin that hasn't been changed so with that said I mean we feel very comfortable that we can achieve that I think everyone should not extrapolate now 29% and then it just goes up from there every quarter. But I still think it's interesting because it shows the leverage of our business model that when sales are strong, we can have very large margins. They are really within reach. I think that this quarter illustrates that. If you keep costs under control, and we sell well, then we have very good margin opportunities.

Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you, Mattias. Moving over to Oskar Bergman. All right. Thank you very much.

Hi, guys. It's Oskar Bergman from Redeye. I've got a few Questions that I wouldn't say necessarily is about the quarter, but more on a general level. So I'll just ask them one by one. And the 1st up, I'm wondering what challenges and obstacles there might be at our centers when it comes to adaptive planning, perhaps in getting a clearance from the patient's oncologist before making changes to the treatment itself. Or if there are any other specifically in the workflow challenges that hold back adoption of this.

Okay, that's a good question.

I think... One shouldn't overestimate the need for an oncologist present. If we make the adjustments small enough, then we are only ensuring that we stay on target. So in a sense, you can think of it like this, Radiation oncologist has approved a certain plan, a certain dose distribution that should be delivered or that is sort of prescribed to the patient. And what we're doing in both offline and online adaptive is that we are ensuring that dose distribution will be delivered. So it's really, I mean, maybe in the short term, and if you make big changes to the treatment, it could be warranted that the oncologist should have a say. But if we look at it this way, that we only stay on track, we're only delivering what has already been approved, then I think any rate this will go away over time. I'm pretty sure about that. We've seen similar developments in, you know, when intensity modulator radiotherapy came about early 2000. And there was a lot of quality assurance being done every day for every field, for every patient. But as people realized that the systems are robust, they deliver the same beams more or less every, or to a very high degree, every fraction. the those calculation is very accurate for the smaller fields that you have in imrt people got accustomed to that and then after some time you don't need to call it ashore every day for imrt i think we see similar development for adaptive when it becomes more common in the clinic you also asked about the other obstacles like What were the obstacles that you referred to?

In the workflow?

In the workflow and that's I think it's really been the lack of good tools, good software tools for online that hasn't been fully implemented yet. So I think the combination of this very high volume. I got new numbers now. I heard new numbers for how many true beams are out there, and it's close to 7,000. My current estimate, that was my own estimate, 4,000. That was based on a data point from 2019. That was 3,000 I extrapolated. But I found just recently that that's way too low. So it's closer than 7,000 true beams out. And to have... that many available machines out in the clinics all around the world combined with the capability of RayStation and RayCare. I think that that's going to be a good trigger for more online adaptive in the clinics. And the fact that you don't need a special machine to deliver online adaptive. You can use just a machine like TrueBeam to do that. That's clear.

Okay. Do you have any updates on how many of the top 15 oncology hospitals are using RayCare today? And those who are using it, have they also implemented adaptive treatment to any meaningful extent?

Yes, several have implemented adaptive. There are still very few clinics, but the clinics that run RayCare are very happy. they are improving efficiency and streamlining the processes with the help of Raycare in the clinic.

And I suspect that it is easier for you to sell Raycare to new facilities that are under construction compared to sort of replacing an OIS at a center that's been around for a long time.

I don't agree with that. So please elaborate on that one. No, but it's not a huge difference. We have done conversions. The existence of data is not a problem. I think that's what you refer to.

That's what you mean when you say that you've used the system for a long time. It's not a problem.

It's been said. I've heard that sort of understanding or myth before, but it's not an issue. The issue why we don't have hundreds of re-care installations yet is that it's because of the long cycles and a previous lack of interoperability with a high volume machine. But those obstacles are gone.

Okay. But would you say that the advantages with RayStation, for example, is more clear for the customers to understand compared to the advantages of replacing an OIS at their centers?

I don't think so. I think it's less clear with RayCare.

Okay, good answer, clear. I think there's a few more questions before I head back into the queue. I think it's very interesting that you could at least theoretically almost double your licenses at the existing centers. So I'm just wondering what challenges lie here and how you're working to expanding licenses as current customer sites?

and i would like to add to that statement that okay we can we can sort of approximately double the race station licenses but the add-on modules which are about 20 but let's say that 13 are for everyone there are some special licenses for carbon iron facilities and so on it's not for everyone but there is still a large number of viable options um Plus 10, anyway, to be conservative. And those have even larger potential than doubling. They are sold to... They have quite low penetration so far. So, now we're looking at different ways to... We haven't really pushed that yet. We have realized there's the need to incentivize or make a stronger argument towards a restored base. to add more technology that they have available in the current systems, if they just unlock the licenses. And we have different approaches to do that. One that we'll try in the near future is to... We probably started some well-defined markets where we open up for all our customers all the functionality in RayStation for a defined time. even clinically, so they can use all of the power of RayStation for some number of months to really try it out and see what impact it can have on their efficiency and the quality of the treatments, et cetera. And then they have at some stage, of course, to be turned off and we can have a discussion whether they want to add more licenses. But I think in general it's to a large extent untapped potential with our current installed base of more than 1,100 clinics that really haven't utilized the full power of RayStation yet.

Okay. I'm also wondering about the Chinese market and specifically if you could give some background to the Chinese competition and if you see anything hinting towards that customers in China are preferring Chinese software for some reason.

Okay. The Chinese market is challenging for several reasons. I think the first one is the regulatory process. So the Chinese authorities can make it sort of arbitrarily hard for us to get clearance for new versions of our products. So that's one challenge, and we're working on that. We get around it, but it takes, usually it takes a long time. It can take 18 months for a new version of RayStation or RayCare to get approved. So that's one aspect.

Then I don't think Chinese customers, the clinics don't prefer

It's more that the authorities, you know, by Chinese regulations that you, hospitals are obliged to buy a certain percentage of their products from Chinese companies. So that's of course something that we have to work on as well. And there are methods to go around that you can collaborate with Chinese companies and you can take other measures. But the Chinese market is for sure tricky. But we do have an installed base of more than 100 clinics, so it's possible to do business there. And Heizhou, that we just published, that we just talked about, is our third largest order. So for sure we can do business there. It's just different. There are different kind of challenges in China than in other markets.

Okay, thank you. I just have a final question, and that's on price increases. What have they been historically, and what do you expect for the coming years, if you have anything communicated?

What we talk about publicly is that we update our price lists quarterly. They are based on the Swedish currency. we factor in inflation into that price and then the prices for the other markets are converted according to the exchange rate at the at that time so this is quite new thing that we update our price list so so often also being cautious of time um

Can you summarize or limit yourself to one more question?

I'm actually finished. I'll see you next week, Johan.

Thank you. Thank you, Oskar. Moving over to Johan Lano and then we have some questions in the chat. Johan, I will allow you to stop your mic.

Hi, can you hear me? Yes. Yes. Hello.

Okay, great. Just one general question for me. Obviously, the hardware manufacturers always launching new products. And obviously, with their own software packages, they can ensure that the complete functionality of those products is, you know, ready from the get go. Can you help me understand whether research faces a time lag in enabling all of those functionalities? Or am I understanding that the wrong way?

No, it can happen for some specific functions. I mean, we have some examples like the MR Linux from Electa Unity. We can, we do plan for that machine, but without, I mean, it's very hard for a customer, for a clinic to use that functionality now without the sort of approval or the collaboration of Elekta. So that can happen. But in general, it's not an issue.

Understood.

Thank you very much. And an important aspect of that I should add is that this would only hold for these two manufacturers, Elekta and Varian, because all the others are our partners. So we work together with Panacea, Shinwa, BioBig, Leo Cancer Care, Hitachi, the list goes on. And all of these new machines are, we plan, maybe we work constantly on integrating the functionality between the different systems.

Okay, understood. So not a significant disadvantage in your opinion?

Nope.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you very much. So moving over to the chat section, we got a question from Joakim asking, can you give us some color on the sales activities with Raycare? And since you now can connect with Varian Truebeam, is it opening up much larger sales activities? And do you expect some larger sales of Raycare later during this year? And also, what are your USP expectations? to get large clinics to change to RayCare. Maybe we can take them one by one. Yeah. No, no, I see them.

I'll go ahead. Yeah, I mean, there are lots of discussions going on with various customers that have variant true beam currently. Is this opening up much larger sales? I mean, the answer is yes, we will. get some nice Raycare orders later this year. I'm confident, I'm convinced about that. Regarding the USP, so for a large clinic, Raycare is very suitable. A large clinic usually have a mixture of machine vendors, which is a perfectly, a perfect place for Raycare to be. large clinic needs to optimize its activities we work heavily on that with RayCare to optimize the use of resources the amount of automation you can achieve with RayCare together with RayStation stands out and that's an extremely useful feature if you run a large operation that can really benefit the large clinic so but I could go on I don't think maybe this is the right place to to describe all the advantages of RayCare, but there are. It's really the next generation on quality information system. And a lot of things come with that.

Thank you, Ivan. And then a question. I think you mentioned the answer before, but how many RayCare licenses have been sold and how many of them are recognized as revenue?

Okay, we have sold... RayCare licenses are not relevant here. We have sold to 28 clinics, it's not exactly the same model as for RayStation because here the price is proportional to the patient volume, whereas for RayStation is proportional to the number of users. So licenses are not exactly relevant here, but it's 28 facilities right now. And we of course hope that to be many more in the near future. I don't know exactly how many, but that have been recognized as revenue. But it's not... I shouldn't guess, but it's not all of them for sure. It's a sort of fracture, but I don't know exactly at the moment.

And it's still a minor part of our total revenue.

Yeah. And we can take the last chat from Mats before we go back to Carlos. So what proportion of the licensing revenue during the quarter comes from customer replacing Philips?

I don't have those numbers yet, but it's a quite high number actually. I could guess on that too, but I think it could be 70%. But that's a guess, but we do convert a lot of Pinnacle. uh clinics at the moment but we also convert other clinics but it's um given the time pressure now the pinnacle would be end of life end of 2026 so we are you know approaching that um cliff um so to say so so quite a lot maybe 70 percent yes i don't have the exact number here when we sit here yeah thank you so i'm moving over to um the verbally um

Question here. We have Carlos Moreno.

You can unmute yourself.

Sorry. I just wanted to ask about your ability to price. I read that Elector is refreshing, putting more emphasis on its software, and it's pushed through some big price rises. And I was also just thinking about the whole dollar thing. If you get a big move in a currency, to what extent are you confident enough that you can move price around to medium term, at least offset that? pricing kind of levers do you think you've got on a three-year view? Thanks.

Okay, thank you. We can do that to quite high extent by just raising the prices. But then it also depends, so then we have a more balanced price list. But it also relates to the actual situation when we are fighting for a customer, fighting for a deal with heavy competition from, let's say, Varian, then there is price pressure for sure. So then the price list sort of goes out the door and you have to provide a discount that makes you win that order. very important for us to win the orders because the customers stay basically forever and when the customer does that they come back and buy more and then when they come back and buy more we should do 50 percent of our licenses go back to the installed base so when you do that we are not on under the same price pressure and then this the price list becomes more relevant again but then there are situations where we don't have that extreme competition and then then then it's a more normal situation it depends on the sales situation as well so so it's a quite complex situation but of course we try to charge a fair amount and we have the richest system out in terms of functionality so and the highest quality highest quality software So, it should have a premium price as well.

Thank you, Johan. All right, moving over to Idun Sundberg.

Yes, hello, can you hear me?

Yes.

Super, thank you. Congratulations on this report, by the way. It was magnificent to see. I have one broad question in terms of the tariffs. Maybe you don't see an effect of it now. Will you potentially see an effect of it later? I mean, you possibly have dialogues with customers and potential customers. in terms of like hesitations maybe to invest or would these tariffs actually have an impact on sales you think um because i also know that there are some protocols that accepts certain medical devices and services so please i'm not looking for like a specific number or so or percentage but more like your outlook on this and your thoughts and opinion on this okay thank you thank you unfortunately the answer will be quite vague

What we know so far is that software... I mean, it is exempt. We don't have any tariffs yet, and we don't expect any tariffs in the near future. Things can change. Who knows? But the current understanding is that the software will not be tariffed, will not be subject to tariffs. We haven't seen in discussions with customers, we haven't yet seen any hesitance to make new investments. It hasn't been obvious, hasn't been brought up so far in our ongoing discussions with several customers. So I think the like the indirect effect of the the currency fluctuations that affect us have affected us so far and will probably affect us going forward it's hard to say but we we don't know very much about the tariffs how they will affect us going forward that there is a small effect on some of some of our customers want us to provide the computer infrastructure to run our systems. They can choose to buy it themselves, but they can also choose us to package that. And then the computers that we buy from, for example, Dell, they will be affected by tariffs for sure. But I think it helps to be in a pure, almost a pure software situation here that we can sort of escape the most of the effects of tariffs so nina do you have anything to add no i totally agree to what you say yeah i'm sorry about the big answer but that's all we know at the moment yeah it was also a hard question but thank you very much for that answer uh and congratulations again

The same question has been asked by Anna and then Carlos asked in the chat as well, which we've already addressed. Yes, exactly.

So are there any other questions? OK, so I think that was it.

Thank you all for your participation. This concludes today's session and we look forward to continuing the dialogue with you, if not before, then at the presentation of the interim report for the half-year report of 2025 on the 8th of August. Lastly, I'd like to remind you that you can find this presentation through the same link as you used for this meeting and on the research website. Thank you very much and have a wonderful day. Thank you very much.

Bye-bye.