Nordnet AB (publ)

Okay, good morning everyone and welcome to the presentation of Nornet's second quarter of 2025. My name is Marcus Lindberg and I'm the head of investor relations at Nornet. With me today as usual I have our CEO Lars Håkenåling and our CFO Lennart Kræn. Lars Håken and Lennart will start off by presenting the results and then we'll have a Q&A session. During the presentation all participants will be on mute and then when we come to the Q&A session you have two alternatives to ask questions so you can either click the raise hand button in zoom and I'll then unmute you and call your name or you can submit a question in writing. The presentation itself is available on our corporate website NornetAB.com. Okay, let's start the presentation. Lars Håken, please go ahead.

Thank you Marcus. Go to the next slide. Starting with some key highlights, we had seen a stable financial performance with continued growth in core business and both revenue and profit in line with quarter two last year. Positive net savings and good customer growth overall, strong trading activity and continued robust revenue margin from an increasing customer base and also higher share of cross-border trading. We see a decline in net interest income due to low interest rate levels partly compensated by higher deposits. OPEX excluding Germany is up .7% due to sequencing of marketing spend last year and we expect to meet the full year guidance of around 8% cost growth excluding Germany. Also high activity in releases and product development where we have launched eight new trading venues in Europe in our app and web and also currency account in the wrappers in Sweden and much more. I'll come back to that. We also launched a new private banking tiering with clearly defined benefits in Sweden that has been well received. Overall a very strong capital situation. We have the dividend of 8.10 SEC that's paid and a new buyback program announced that our CFO will talk a little bit more about later. We can go to the next. Some of the highlights, financial highlights, continuous strong customer growth. We see 14% growth underlying year on year. Savings capital growth of 10% so once again above 1 trillion SEC in savings capital on the platform mainly due to net savings because the market is year on year it's been fairly flat. And number of trades up 18% from a growing customer base but also higher volatility due to tariff uncertainty. Revenues overall is flat year on year. We see a decline on net interest income due to lower rates but an increase in our core business trading and fund. Cost year on year is up 30% excluding Germany's .7% and again what I said is that we expect to meet the full year guidance of around 8% for the year versus last year excluding Germany. And profit level is also on high level aligned with last year. We can go to the next. We see continued good momentum in customer growth during the quarter. Net savings though is a little bit lower this quarter versus last year and it's mainly due to existing customers transfers a little bit less money this quarter and that's due to that they had we had a very high net savings in quarter one and also high dividends and also some sell-outs in April, March that then enable a lot of cash on the accounts thereby less need to transfer money from other banks during the quarter. But we see net savings picking up a little bit in July. We can go to the next. And we benefit from having four markets. The risks are business model and enables growth and we've had a good momentum growth momentum in all countries where we grow most in customers in Denmark. We see that savings capital is growing the least and that's due to a fairly big market decline in Denmark during the year due to novel Nordic. We can go to the next. Talking a little bit about the revenue streams now is starting with the trading revenue and we see in the graph to the left here the number of trading customers is increasing in line with customer growth. Up to the right they say we use trades per trading customer is about the same level as last quarter. We see a very high level in April due to trade volatility but then the markets calmed down in May and June. Still the high share of cross-border trading even though it was a little bit less than last quarter but that's from also the country mix with high share cross-border trading outside of Sweden. And trades today are at multi-year highs and each trade also tried more revenue and we see here in the graph to the left that trades per day is increasing steadily and that's due to growing customer base. We've more than doubled the customer base since 2019 from 1 million customers to more than 2 million customers but we also see that trades per customer is up a little bit in first half of this year due to high volatility from tariffs. Looking at the right graph you see that the income per trade is increasing due to a higher share of cross-border trading and is mainly due to country mix where we grow a lot outside of Sweden and it's more cross-border trading in Denmark and Finland because their local exchanges are fairly small so they trade a lot of outside their local exchange. The fund business keeps developing in a good way. We see steady growth in fund capital. We had a little bit dip in revenue in quarter two versus quarter one due to a volume effect where the markets were down quite a bit as you know and also that the sold off a little bit of the funds but we see the fund capital is now back again to the levels before we saw the downturn so hopefully in quarter three that will not have an effect. We see continued good growth rate in Nordnet branded funds which is more than one quarter of the fund capital on the platform and overall high activity in funds and more than half of the customers own funds on the platform. Looking a little bit on net interest income starting with deposits and deposit levels. A deposit versus savings capital overall is around 8% like last quarter. We see an increase in deposits from around 79 billion to 83 billion and a quarter from net savings, high dividends but then of course offset by net bias and we see non-net bias in brokerage and funds is back to more normal levels where quarter one was low. Go to next. Looking a little bit of the different components of NII starting with portfolio. We estimate to have a revenue of 1.6 billion in 2025 assuming the volumes we saw in quarter two and the currency allocation credit space and the visual code two and also the market consensus of IBRA rates going forward and of course the sensitivity here is deposit volume where we likely have an upside with growing customer base and additional net savings coming onto the platform and there's also the policies that have driven the liquidity portfolio up the last quarters and thereby generating a high-end revenue. We see interest rate past fairly stable versus last quarter a little bit down in Sweden, Norway but up in Denmark and Finland so no big movements. Looking at the loan portfolio the estimated revenue there for this year is 1.1 billion then again assuming second quarter volumes and interest rates as per 1st of July and also the IBRA rates we saw on the previous page with a pass-through rate of margin lending of 50% and mortgage 100%. Of course the sensitivity here is margin lending volume where we also here we likely have an upside if the market stabilize. If we look at margin lending volume in the graph to the left is it down in a quarter both from risk off but also from a stronger SEC since consolidated in SEC but overall our lending business is low risk we didn't see any credit losses in margin lending even though the high volatility in March-April. We also managed to maintain the margins for margin lending on a good level in spite of the central bank decreases of interest. Looking at the last component and deposit interest, so interest we pay to the customers estimate that to be around 400 million in 2025. Sensitivity here is volume on capital on savings account where we also likely have upside when the interest rate goes down there's going to be less money on the savings accounts. We saw a little bit uptick in the quarter due to high cash volume from again sell-off and high dividends but over time I think the volume on savings account will decrease a bit. So in summary we have good development in all the revenue streams both net interest income, the fund business and the trading business. Again once again over one trillion seconds savings capital on the platform. If you look at the margins is the margin on deposits of course a bit down due to lower interest rates. You see the trading margin is a bit up due to high share cross-border trading and a stable fund margin. We have a business model with great operating leverage. We've grown the revenue with 25 percent per year since 19 and while the cost is only going around 7 percent per year. So most of the top line growth ends up on the bottom line so a true position of profitable growth. We've had the high release rates both in quarter one and continue into quarter two not least for features and products for the more active customers. This quarter launched a currency account on the ISK and the capital for checking in Sweden. We also launched eight new European venues for electronic trading via our app and web and that's been well received since it's now a lot higher interest to invest in Europe versus the US. Some smaller releases we have AI summary of news with generative AI which is exciting and we also built in really nice native MoMA pension flows in the app in Norway and Denmark and also built in savings code into the app. And we also launched had a very exciting launch of a new private banking offering in Sweden and it's a tiered model based on savings capital. It's four tiers it's called platinum black and signature and for each tier we have very clearly defined benefits. So you have lower commission, you have lower mortgage rates, you have coming soon also discounts on margin lending rates, you can have an upside on interest rates on savings account, you have access to certain products specific for this segment like currency accounts on ISK and KF and also prior to our customer service and much more is to come. This is a framework that we can build on for a very long time and we have a very high release rate and a lot will happen here and we also then focus to launch this in the other countries also during the fall. And what we want to do of course is to attract more capital from the private banking segments both from existing customers to try to nudge them to the next level, the next tier so they get additional benefits but also then of course retaining capital by the nice benefits they have but also on top of that attract totally new customers to our banking offering. But it's been well received and a good start. So with that I hand over to you Lennart to talk a little bit capital liquidity and some buybacks and other things.

Thank you very much it's always a pleasure to talk about the capital and liquidity situation. It is as you know, you can go to the next slide, it is as you know a very solid and robust situation we have both capital and liquidity wise and that is also the reason why we have decided to continue the share buyback program which we last year did about 500 million shareback of ZIC for and we will continue the intention is to do the same this year but we start out with the launch of 250 on Monday going on until the 7th of November this year and then we will most probably launch another tranche of this one but the intention is as I said to go for 500 continue the same way we did last year. We also have a strong capital situation that will enable us to do the 70% dividend continuously as well so very nice figures to talk about but I don't have very much to say more to say about it really. It shows itself. Thank you.

Thanks. A little bit on the strategic focus. Next, so we have four key strategic focus areas of course starting with the customer side. We want to have the most satisfied customers by having a one-stop shop with a truly great customer experience and low price. We also of course want to have engaged employees and we know to have happy customers you need to have really skilled and passionate employees which we have but also that we can attract and retain top talent which we also believe that we really can. Third area sustainable business. We are in a trust business. We need to earn that trust every day and especially we need to manage our risks both compliance rates and other risks in a good way and overall be a trusted and like brand. Fourth area is profitable growth. So capture the fantastic growth potential we have in the Nordics to continue to take market share in a growing market and on top of that launch in Germany during next year but of course continue to focus on scalability and cost control. And we have a very good long-term growth in both customers and savings capital. We have critical mass of customers in all countries and they really like our platforms. We have a strong word of mouth driven growth and what drives our revenue growth over time is customer growth and net savings. So customer sign up to the platform they like what they see and transfer money from other banks and start using our products like our fund products or trading products or lending products. And we are taking market share in a growing market and we have a lot of room to also going forward. Only around 8% of the Nordic population on our platform. We have 7% of the market of 18 trillion sector as a big market and it is a growing market which has an underlying growth and we take in market share last year we had 6% market share and in 2024 7%. And we see it in the graph to the right we have high market share in equities and low market share in funds and pension and those are two very important focus areas for us and we're really moving in the right direction with really good growth in both areas. Also a very good scalability and cost control overall in the business with double the customer base since 19 from 1 million to 2.2 million customers with a limited cost growth. We have decided to invest in three areas and that's one area is additional marketing to drive brand awareness and thereby higher customer growth. The other area is the German launch which will enable marketers two and a half times as big as Sweden in Nordics and the third area is more development staff to have a high release speed which is key if you're going to succeed in a competitive market like the Nordics. Next when the performance versus our financial targets is okay a customer growth of 14% in line since capital per customer is a little bit lower than the 500k but not that much. We ported due to a little bit weaker markets in H1 but again income per in relation to sales capital is higher than the guidance due to higher deposit levels and also higher trading activity and expenses like I said we estimate that to be around 8% per year excluding Germany. Looking at the key priorities I mean a lot of focus of course on Germany where we had we have the country manager in place since 1st of May and now we're recruiting the team around him. They also define the scope that's needed for developing the platform in Germany we also started that development and we also notify the SFSA that we intend to then passport the bank license we have in Sweden to Germany so we're all good progress in a German project. We're going to continue to focus of course on the fund and pension business where we have a bit lower market share but very good traction and not least realize the potential in the new leave-rente pension product in Denmark and we also focus on enhancing the high-end offerings and offering for the more active customers with really good releases both in quarter one and quarter two. We're going to continue to roll out the new brand campaign as a new marketing burst starting in August and of course continue to focus on scalability and overall cost control. So with that Marcus I hand it over to you for Q&A.

Great thank you Lord Fogelennat so now we'll start the Q&A so like I said before if you want to ask a question live just click the raise hand button I'll announce your name and unmute you or feel free to submit a question in writing. So the first question comes from Edmund Kirik at DMV Carnegie please go ahead Edmund.

Good morning thanks for the presentation and for taking my questions. Maybe if we start on private banking it seems like you don't expect any price erosion with the introduced tiering. Do you expect it would be enough then to drive in much more volume and if we flip it other way around you also talked about introducing some more attractive pricing on the margin lending there. Just generally how do you think about kind of price versus volume given that you already have an installed base in private banking so that would be the first topic. Then the second one just on NAI how do you think about the price changes from here is the assumptions you have in the slides with 50% passed through a margin lending and for the deposits is that your best given how competition has looked down the last rate cut. And then lastly just on the deposit base how do you expect that to develop from here given that you've had support from the dividend season which I suppose now is kind of behind us. Thank you.

Yeah so looking at the private banking of course it will take a little bit of our revenues but it's non-material. I think what's important here is that we're really clear on the tiers and really clear on the benefit per tier and that we are very transparent and overall of course no price but the higher capital you have the better commission level you have, the better mortgage rate you have, the better margin rate you will have, better savings account rate you will have etc. But this is also start I mean it's much more to come that will be launched in this framework so both with I mean it's not just the price component it's other things that can be interesting in there as well. But we've seen a big interest from the launch both from existing customers that really liked it but also of course try to nudge them to the next level to transfer a little bit more capital so they enter the next level. But also then attracting fully new customers and for us it's a little bit new generation private banking. It's digital, it's transparent, it's low price and it's going to be a fairly high development speed of new things to come. Looking at NII, yeah I would say it's the best guess and a snapshot and as we know I mean there's been no real surprises on our previous assumptions I think those will hold here as well. And deposit base I mean ultimately that's also a function of net savings and customer growth and we will grow customers so we will have high net savings over time so that will also build a level on deposits.

Thanks and thank you very much I have a nice summer. Thanks same.

Thanks Armin. Okay the next question comes from Patek Bratelius at ABG. Patek go ahead.

Thank you can you hear me? Yes. Perfect yeah I will start with the two follow-ups on Armin's questions. So if we start with the private banking area. So could you talk a little bit more and elaborate on how you view the competitive situation especially in Sweden but also how your offering that you plan to launch in the other market stacks up with the current offering in the other regions outside of Sweden?

Yeah I mean competitive wise we plan of course to take customers both from other platforms but also banks by having a little bit more modern private banking offering. Like I said the nice with very clearly defined tiers a nice experience how you move between the tiers and also clearly defined benefits so it's very transparent and also no price but also framework that we can add a lot of exciting stuff in over time. Of course we plan to launch this in other countries as well hopefully during the fall and again as usual competitive situation is always highest in Sweden it's less outside of Sweden so but I think it's a framework that works well in all of our countries.

So do you see for example outside of Sweden that your product offering will be broader than peers or is it also better in pricing? I think I mean

again I think it's both digital it's very transparent very clearly defined what benefits you get per tier and low price of course but there's also going to be additional components in the offering that's going to be exciting that will come over time.

Thank you Emma my next question is also a little bit of a follow-up we saw historically the deposit in relation to savings capital being above 10 and close to 10 percent while it's been closer to 7 percent the last couple of years it has come up in the last in H1 given the uncertainty we have seen but do you expect now in the short term that this will continue up because we have in the past talked about that in a normalized rate level do you expect it to move back towards this 10 percent level ish or do you expect that the customers has built up capital now in the short term so this should trend down in the in the coming six months?

I think in the we've fairly modest in assumption of growth of deposit versus AUM but we're still growing in absolute terms as we grow in the savings capital we go on the customer base we have more net savings coming in but it's also a little bit a different mix I mean also more fun a fun than pension customers now which are not going in and out of positions as much as as equity or brokerage customers so thereby creating perhaps a little bit less cash but let's see I mean we'll grow with deposits and even with 8 percent we will grow deposit in absolute terms in a nice way and of course if if you we know if you have a downturn in the market that deposit is going to definitely increase so hopefully we have some upside anyway going forward but anyway absolute terms will grow.

Thank you then I just have two minor questions that's a little bit not does not impact the the big picture but the net of the commission it was positive from beginning of 2019 until the mid 2024 and now we have seen four quarters in a row with negative results what is what is driving this difference and should we expect it to be negative going forward as well?

I don't have all the details on that I don't know Markus if you have

I know I mean I know one factor is that there were some fees and they're associated with the unsecured lending product so when that was sold in Q4 you would have seen I think that's when you sort of the shift into more negative numbers that would have been I think the biggest shift other than that of course that that other line contains a lot of other things that can can move a bit but that's the only sort of major shift I can think of.

Correct.

Thank you and another minor detailed question is that the the lending book has decreased by almost two billion since the start of the year while the credit risk is up by by two billion just for my understanding what is what is driving this development?

It's probably the positions in the liquidity portfolio.

Soro can you take that once again?

Yeah the the credit risk is up by two billion since the start of the year while the lending book is down two billion so the the shift in delta just for a better understand.

Oh yes now we're having very high liquidity or increased liquidity portfolio and also we have then increased the credit risk weights within this one in short positions to gain a little bit more on the net interest income leveling up at a certain level as we have this very strong capital situation as well so it's actually optimizing the but without taking any credit risk because those are all short papers so very much in control of them.

Very clear thank you so much. Thank you thank you Patrik.

Thanks Patrik. Next question comes from Jakob Heslevik at SCB. Jakob please go ahead.

Good morning if we look at the P&L development total income is flat versus a year ago while cost has increased by 13 percent so if income doesn't come back in the second half of this year how do you view your cost development are there any investments you could post for example?

Yeah but if you look at the revenues in line with quarter two last year cost is higher but also we don't have any credit losses you know this year since we offloaded the unsecured lending business but thereby also given a little bit less revenue on lending of course. So it's not I mean we foresee of course a continued growth in customers net savings and thereby by top time over time but as you know it can be impacted by fluctuations in the markets quite a bit from quarter to quarter but of course we I mean it's always levers you can pull if needed like I said we decided to invest in marketing new development resources in Germany I don't think we would do anything in Germany but marketing of course you can work with and also new recruitments you can work with as well.

Thank you and then my second question is on the margin on transaction related income it came down quite a bit in the quarter and I guess FX played a there

is

it only due to lower volumes or do you see a margin compression as you have rolled out your FX accounts to pro and private banking clients?

No it's not more compression it's just due to a little bit lower FX volume but especially lower trading value on FX and I mean the currency accounts have been well received but it's just a few hundred accounts opened and we also see if they on those accounts there was a higher volume so it's a little bit worse there's no impact from currency accounts.

Great thank you wish you all a good summer.

The same bye.

Thank you Joakob. The next question comes from Eliko Bozzone from JP Morgan. Eliko please go ahead.

Hi good morning can you hear me okay? Yeah good morning. Hi morning thanks for taking the questions. One a follow-up on NII which was clearly good versus consensus. Can you just give us some some extra color on what you think drove such a good print? Is it because you managed to secure some pretty good yields with the liquidity portfolio? You mentioned the the credit exposure as well. Are we hit the ceiling or you think that potentially you could push the the portfolio a bit further into higher yielding securities? So that's my first question. The second question is on the Swedish market. You posted a roughly flat customer growth relative to the previous quarter and I appreciate this quarter probably has been a tougher one. However you're also spending more on marketing so can you give us some color on your thoughts on whether you think the marketing investments you're doing there are actually bearing fruits and whether you think that from Q3 for example we may already see an acceleration perhaps in customer growth. And then finally on the private banking I'm just wondering if you could give us some KPI on perhaps how many clients you have seen already moving some asset to maybe fall within one of the better bands that you are currently offering. Thanks.

Yeah I think on the eye I mean it's mainly that we have a higher deposit volume thereby high liquidity portfolio and thereby higher revenues. Of course you have a little bit upside on taking a little bit more risk in the investments there but the main driver is deposit levels. When it comes to customer growth in Sweden I mean we see clear signs anyway that the market pain is well received. We see that the campaign recognition is very high, campaign liking is very high. You see also an uptick in aided brand awareness in Sweden that will hopefully spill over in additional customer growth over time but it will always take time to shift sentiment from awareness to preference as well. But we're also then happy to see that the MPS development in Sweden is also very positive and partly closing the gap to Avanza. So all this taken together at some point should also enable a bit higher customer growth. But we still see that we have good customer base, we have good customer growth, there's good customers coming in Sweden. So as we know high income per customer, high income per customer, high activity per customer in Sweden. Private banking of course is going to support all of our countries not least Sweden. Like I said well received, I can't share stats today but what we see really big interest both from existing customers to go to the next level. We've had several cases where customers have moved in more money to go to the next tier to enable more benefits but also attractive versus new customers as well and we see positive trend in net savings in July partly from this. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you Enrico. The next question comes from Martin Eekstedt at Handelsbanken.

Thank you. Can you hear me? Yeah. We can. Excellent. So I just wanted to ask a little bit about Norway and you use year on year mainly in the presentation but just taking a bit more near term stance and looking at income by country very simplistically by transaction related revenue volumes. So Norway seems to continue its performance this quarter although all markets are down quarter on quarter but for example the Nordic group is down 17 percent quarter to quarter in brokerage income but Norway is only down 11 with Denmark for example on the other hand being down 21 percent. The same is actually due for fund income from Norway. Could you speak a bit more about the dynamics behind Norway's ascension perhaps and perhaps also the recent decline in Denmark although there it seems more like a shift to funds actually could it be related to the leave-rent the product that you launched there if you could give us some more flavor on the dynamics for those two markets please.

Well I think this is a benefit of having four markets because they move in a little bit different directions so you spread the market risk in a good way and Norway is a bit different since there's a lot of oil and fish and other parts of industries that you don't see in the other countries and I think with the volatility we saw in March, April I think it hit I mean they also sold down in funds in Norway clearly but trading wise I think they saw an opportunity as well so and Norway has been a strong market this year versus Denmark there's been really bad performance market this year and we know market sentiment impacts also activity and Denmark is down quite a bit this year due to Norway Nordic and Norway Nordic is still on very low levels so that's impacted the sentiment in Denmark quite a bit but this is what we have all the time basically the market moves in a little bit different direction but thereby also spreading the market risk. Funds in Denmark I mean leave-rent is I mean we have good strong net flows in pension for the first half of course around 2.5 billion so far so that's impacting of course the the fund business positively.

Okay excellent thank you for the added clarity there and then a second one if I may so I asked this question of Avanza as well but given how fund margins look perhaps artificially lower this quarter since fund capital drop between quarter ends which is not captured and average volume calculation would it not make sense to give some more data on this in your monthly data backs for just volumes would clearly be helpful.

It does so we plan to actually break down the savings capital in the monthly report per brokerage funds and deposits. Okay super that would be very helpful. So I agree it's not it was not a normal moment but clearly we checked you in the quarter but we understand that that creates a problem for forecasting.

Excellent that was all from me wish you all a good summer.

Yeah same.

Thank you Martin. Next question comes from Zach Wurst from Autonomous. Zach please go ahead.

Hi there good morning thanks for taking my questions. I've just got two please. Firstly can you give us a bit more colour around brokerage margins during the quarter. Are there any other drivers here of the decline versus 1Q aside from lower foreign trading levels and then secondly on the release of digital trading in eight new European markets and pre-market trading in the US during the quarter. Just what drove these launches is this in response to specific customer demand and what has uptake here looked like thus far.

Thanks. Yeah so revenue margin versus quarter one trading margin versus quarter one is mainly due to little bit lower share of cross-border trading volume but a little bit lower still on traded value and since we don't report traded value that's probably why you didn't fully meet the forecasting on that parameter but there's no other big movements but still the margin is very high compared to what we've seen before so clearly on a higher level than 2024. When it comes to the launches pre-market US it's been very well received 10% of the trades in the US now is to being made give or take pre-markets and we also see a tendency that the customers that take pre-market also have a little bit higher traded value so hopefully that will play out good over time. Also Europe launch was also well received since there's a lot renewed interest now investing in Europe but so far we saw a little bit less volume in Germany but more more volume in the other markets the total volume in Europe has been about the same but it's been a shift from from Germany to the other markets.

That's great thanks very much.

Thanks.

Thank you Zach. Next question comes from Michael McNaughton from UBS. Michael please go ahead.

Hi there can you hear me okay? Yeah morning yes great yeah my first one was just on the private banking rollout as well I think when you rolled out in Sweden you commented that if people if customers near the tier barriers change that would add about or attract 22 billion of new savings do you have similar numbers for how that would look in your other markets is it a similar quantum or is it much less?

I think the 22 billion was a pan-Nordic number might have been unclear.

Yeah okay okay got it thanks and then just on Norway I saw that you reduced your platform fee on external funds yeah just could you just talk about the the the reasons behind that what you're seeing there in that market and then if there's any risks of similar moves in your other markets what the competitive dynamics there are?

Yeah I mean we don't as you know we're very careful normally with price lowering the price especially versus new small competitors but when we see bigger players moving or a gap to the big players are too big we see we need to defend our price position and in Norway it's Kron mainly that's owned by Storebrand so one of the big players has very low fees on index funds platform fees and and the gap has been a little bit too big versus us and especially with KLP the most yeah the biggest basically the index provider in Norway changed to a clean share class where they gave themselves a bit more margin and thereby ending up that the KLP funds looked very expensive on our platform versus Kron we saw that we need to act it's not dramatic I think it's six million on a yearly basis impact but we don't see any spillover to any of the other countries.

Okay thanks and maybe just on that any comment on if you're seeing any pickup and competition in Sweden from Saver as well in regard?

Not really I mean Savers you know was also acquired by Lansforsäkringar bank recently and I think that shows also that I mean it's a very competitive market in Norway it's very low prices in general so it's difficult to build a profitable business you need a lot of customers a lot of savings capital a lot of transactions before you get there but we don't see any impact from Saver in Sweden.

Okay great thanks have a good summer.

Thank you

Michael and good luck going forward I know you're moving somewhere else it might be the last queue call. Next question comes from Andy Lowe at Citi please go ahead Andy.

Hey thanks for taking the question just would like to go back to the net flow dynamic in Sweden so you annualized about 2% net flows in the quarter similarly Avanza had a quite a weak quarter I'm just curious to hear what you think the diagnosis is for that on Avanda's call the CEO said that the capacity is there for people to and it was more a lack of employees due to risk appetite so do you think that comes back in the second half given that markets have fared much better and the second one is just a request really like the margin all the revenues per trade obviously sort of caught people off guard this quarter would you consider disclosing that the average traded volume that would just be a helpful metric for us to track.

Thanks. Yeah so net flows it was weaker not just in Sweden was a little bit weaker in all countries in quarter two and the main reason like I said is that the existing customers had more cash on their accounts because there was very high net savings in quarter one there was a sell-off in March April and also very high dividends so it was you know we have the existing customers both recurring net savings that wasn't impacted but they also do one-off transfers when they see a need but there's been less need of because the deposit level has been fairly high on their accounts so it's mainly due to that not so much risk off I would say and we see a positive development in net savings now in July.

Thanks.

Margin per traded value etc I mean you can take that with you Marcus and I think the biggest one is if you have trading volume and not just trading value not just trading volume.

Yeah let's I will consider it for sure.

Normally they go very much hand in hand but not every quarter.

Okay thank you so much Andy the next question comes from Ian White from Autonomous. Yes. Ian can you hear us? Hi there. Hey.

Can you hear me? Yes.

Yeah.

Thank you for taking my questions just two from me please. First I'm trying to ask on capital and the the glide path to a four to four and a half percent leverage ratio and basically if I look at the the say the 500 million of buybacks you've pointed to today you will more or less accrue that capital back in the second half even post the sort of 70 percent dividend payout so I'm just I'm just wondering how you're thinking about getting down to that four to four and a half percent leverage ratio range that you've essentially placed. And secondly slightly broader question we saw a competitor announce the launch of tokenized equity products for clients in Europe in the in the last couple of months. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on that please and wonder if it's something that Nordnet will also consider launching strikes me as a way to you know internalize flow and reduce trading costs and make product launch maybe a little bit more flexible. So just interested to hear any thoughts on that from your perspective please.

Yeah I think the glide path you can probably answer that lineup but we also have an increasing deposit level or deposit volume over time that we need to consider as well but perhaps you want to give some more color and an 81 that's coming up soon as well.

Yeah I would say I mean we're very cautious and we're in long term capital planning to be this strong all the time but as Lashore said we have the 81, 600 million that we'll be able to call next year and that we have to consider all the time and see how we'll continue with that one. So actually it's a gliding path and I would presume somewhere 26, 27 that we will be down to 4.5 but it also depends on the deposit levels and that is what we always adjust to.

And then tokenized equity products yeah I mean overall it's an area of course we watch I don't think we're there yet but it's an area we definitely watch and crypto also on top of the such also but it's a lot of things happening in the tokenization space which might be interesting over time but we also need to really secure that we have a really trusted service to our customers.

Got it thanks very much.

Thanks.

Thank you so much Ian we had a few written questions I think we answered yet so the question is Nordnet has been in the German market before what's different now and why will the company succeed now I believe we Nordnet exited Germany in 2011.

Yeah correct I mean but it's a very different situation now one is that the German market is maturing when it comes to equity and fund savings and there's a lot of other players there digital platforms as well that tries to behave to use the digital platform so that's one but probably the more important reason is we were not mature we had we're so far away from profitable growth in Denmark Finland and Norway during that time and we need to do a lot of development for those countries and reach scale there before we could focus on anything else so I think it was right move to pull out of growth and very strong base in the Nordics and now it's a better time and also more mature markets in Germany.

Okay great that was actually the last question for today so thanks everyone for attending this presentation please visit our website NordnetAB.com if you have any need more information or you can reach out to me so yeah thanks again for your interest in Nordnet have a nice day and a fantastic summer goodbye.

Yep bye.