Nordnet AB (publ)

Good morning and welcome to the presentation of Nordnet's fourth quarter of 2025. My name is Marcus Lindberg and I'm the head of investor relations at Nordnet. With me today, I have our CEO Lars-Åke Norling and our CFO Lennart Krän. Lars-Åke and Lennart will start off by presenting the results and then we'll have a Q&A session. During the presentation, all participants will be on mute. Then when we come to the Q&A session, you have two alternatives to ask questions. You can click the raise hand button. I'll then unmute you and call your name, or you can submit a question in writing. The presentation itself is available on our corporate website, nonetab.com. Okay, let's start the presentation. Lars Fokke, please go ahead.

Thank you, Marcus. So let's start with the highlights. We see continuous strong growth in our core brokerage and fund business from a growing customer base and also positive market sentiments. Also really good net savings and strong customer growth. Overall, strong trading activity and another record quarter for cross-border trading. And we see high trading both in the US markets, the European markets, and some Nordic markets, not least Denmark with the big swings in Nordisk. We see a decline in net interest income due to lower policy rates, but it's partly mitigated by higher deposit levels. Cost growth is in line with target for the full year, around 8%, excluding Germany. We now also launched a new private banking concept in all of our Nordic countries and it's been very well received. We have passported now the Swedish bank license to Germany and that's approved. And the H2 launch in Germany is on track. And the proposed dividend is 8.60 per share up from 8.10 last year. Some of the financial highlights, strong customer growth at 12%, savings capital up 15%, both from underlying market costs, but also very strong net savings. Number of trades up 16% from growing customer base, but also 15%. positive markets. Revenues is up 6%. We see a decline in net interest income from low rates, but a very strong growth in our trading and our fund business. Operating expenses is up 8% a year, including here cost of Germany. So underlying cost development was lower, and that's mainly due to Facing a marketing cost versus last year or versus 2024. And continued profitable growth with the profit growing at 5% for the quarter. Looking for the full year, the customer savings gap is of course the same. The trades is also for the full year strong, up 20%, both from the growing customer base, but also the volatility we saw around the tariff uncertainty during the spring, but also strong market sentiment in H2. Just revenues up 6% for the full year and we have a record revenue of around 5.4 billion. Again, that it's NII going down due to low rates, but also that we sold the personal loans portfolio in 2024. But again, there's strong growth in the trading and the fund business. Adjusted operating expenses is 12% including Germany, but excluding Germany is around 8% as per guidance. And cost for Germany was around slightly lower than 60 million SEK in 2025. And also record on profit growth for the year 5% to around 3.8 billion SEK. It was a very good momentum, both in customer growth and net savings. We have on board around 255,000 new customers in 2025, same absolute levels as in 2024. It was a very strong net savings, 78 billion SEK for the year, up from 73 billion in 2024. And our geographic diversification derives the business model and enables growth. And we see here that savings capital is growing also more than the customer growth, except from Denmark. But in Sweden, Norway and Finland, we saw both good market development, but also strong net savings. In Denmark, we had very good net savings, but as you know, the Danish market had a very negative year in 2025 due to Novo Nordisk and Ørstedt and some other shares going down quite a bit. Looking a little bit on the different revenue streams starting with trading, we see here in the graph to the left, the blue line, that's the number of trading customers going up with the growing customer base. Trade per trading customer is fairly stable in the quarter, but the share of cross-border trading is continuing to go up. Both from the country mix, since we grow more in Denmark, Finland, Norway, where they naturally trade a lot outside the whole market because the whole market is small. But also that we saw strong trading and market sentiment in both Europe and US and also a lot of trading then in Denmark with no risk. And trades per day are up 20% compared to 2024, and each trader drives 10% more revenue. And if you look to the left here on the graph, since 2019, we have more than doubled the amount of trades per day. And that's, of course, since we more than doubled the customer base during the same period. from around 900,000 customers to 2.4 million customers. But we also see that the trades per customer per day is a little bit up in 2025, both from the volatility we saw during the spring from the tariff uncertainty, but also very strong market sentiment in H2. And we see also the income per trade is continuing to go up and that's due to high share cost supported trading. Looking at the fund business, we see a steady growth in fund capital and we have more than double or we have about double the fund capital since 2021 from 150 billion SEK to around 300 billion SEK now in 2025. We see also that fund margins are stabilizing as active passive shift slows, but also when customers buy passive funds, they mainly buy Nordnet passive funds where we have a higher margin. Over one quarter of the fund capital is now in the Nordnet branded funds and more than half of the customers own funds. We see a slightly lower net flow or net buy into funds in 2025 versus 2024. That's mainly due to the uncertainty during the spring, where we saw outflows in March and April. Looking at net interest income, starting with the deposit level, and here we look at the deposit level for the full year, and that's going from 70 billion in the beginning of the year to 84 billion, so up 20%, from strong net savings and also high dividends. But now, of course, we also see a strong net buy during the year driving our core businesses, a lot of buying in brokerage and funds. Looking at our snapshot that we normally do for NII, and now it's a snapshot for 2026. Starting with the liquidity portfolio, we estimate 1.6 billion SEC in 2026, the same level as 2025. And the main sensitivity here is, of course, deposit volume, because with this estimate we see deposit volumes fixed. But we see a likely upside with deposit volumes with the growing customer base. Looking at liquidity portfolio in the quarter, it's up due to high deposits and stable lending. And overall, if you look at the interest rates passed on to the rights, it's stable, slightly up in Sweden, Denmark and Finland, but it's going to be a little bit lower over the year in Norway, but from high levels. Looking at the low portfolio snapshot for 2026, 1.1 billion, also same level as 2025. Main sensitivity here is volume of margin lending, where we also likely will have an upside from customer growth and high savings capital. And we see in the graph up to the left, the red bar here, that's the modularity volume that's been dipping a little bit, of course, during the spring with all the volatility, but it's recovered nicely in the fall from stronger markets. And overall, we have a very low risk lending portfolio loan to value both the mortgage and mortgage lending from 40% and virtually no credit losses. And looking at the margins, we've had a full pass through of the mortgage rate with lowering of central bank rates, but we maintained the lending margin at fairly okay levels in spite of central bank cuts. Go to next. Looking at the positive interest snapshot, it's 350 milliseconds in 2026. So that's a little bit lower than we saw in 2025. And main sensitivity here is amount of money on the savings accounts in each country. And we estimate that will go down when the interest rates are lower. But we actually saw a little bit take up in the quarter in Sweden due to good growth in private banking. So in summary, very resilient revenues, bolstered by our diversified revenue streams. Looking at those, obviously, the red one is net interest income. The dark blue is fund, and the light blue is brokerage. And we see strong growth since 19 in all of those revenue streams. Of course, a decline in net interest income in 2025 due to lower rates. So net interest income is around 40% of the revenue, but we expect net interest income to stabilize in 2026, as we showed. due to that we are at the end of the rate cut cycle. And then it will likely start growing again from a growing customer base and thereby higher depositing lending volumes. Looking at the margins, of course, the deposit margin is going down with low rates. We see an uptick in brokerage margin for high share of cross-border trading, but the fund margin continues stable around 25 bps. And overall, the business model is very good operating leverage. We have a very strong revenue growth around 25% per year since 2019. But the limited cost growth of around 7% and most of the top line growth ends up on the bottom line. So really true position of profitable growth. We also continue with a lot of launches for our platform with features and products. And we have focused quite a lot on the high-end segment during the year. And just to mention a few things in quarter four that we introduced as the first cloud platform that you can have recurring savings in crypto certificates. We also secured the same experience when it comes to setting up savings plans for fund savings as pension savings, and also a lot more rich data from FactSet, both historic data and forward-looking data for our instruments that's been very well received by our customers. So with that, I think I hand over to you, Lennart.

Thank you very much. And yes, I'm very comfortable and pleased with the strong capital and liquidity situation that we still have and working on continuous having with a leverage ratio of 5.1%, which is the constraining factor, of course, but also a lot of room for further deposits because that is the risk here. We also, as Lars-Åke presented earlier, recommend a dividend of 8.6 kronor per share, which is an increase per share by 50 euro, but still within the targets that we have of 70% payout of the net result. We have also throughout the year 2025 bought back shares and we are continuing our program with that for about 100 million until the mid-March. So a strong capital and liquidity situation, which makes us, which creates a great flexibility for us going forward. Thank you, Leonard.

A little bit of a strategic focus and you probably recognize our strategic ambitions. We have four main ambitions, starting, of course, with having the most satisfied customers by having this one-stop shop for savings investments with a really good user experience. And then it's engaged employees. We know we can never have happy customers unless we have very passionate and talented staff and that we manage to attract and retain top talent, which we can. Then it's a sustainable business. We are in a trust business. We need to earn that trust every day. And most important is to have... Really strong focus and management of our risks and also that we overall are a trusted and liked brand. Last area is profitable growth to capture the Nordic and German growth potential to continue to take market share in the growing savings market in the Nordics and then open Germany in H2 this year. And of course, continues to secure scalability and cost control in our business. And we have had a very strong growth in customers and savings capital over the years. We have very satisfied customers and the critical mass of customers also in each country and thereby it works with customer recommending our platform to other customers. And customer growth and savings capital and the savings growth is the most important growth drivers for us. So customers sign up to the platform, they like what they see, they bring money from their other banks and start using our products. I know that we are taking market share in a growing savings market in the Nordics, but we still have a fairly low market share, so there's a long growth potential in the Nordics, and at the same time, we get extra optionality when we open Germany in H2. We have 8% of the population on our platform in the Nordics, around 7% of the savings capital. That's up from 3% in 16, so we're taking market share, and we know also that the underlying savings market is growing. Highest market share in equities, but it's an area we of course going to continue to focus on, but low market shares in funds and pension, which is two important growth areas for us. Looking at the cost, we have a very scalable platform and also good cost control. Underlying cost growth is around 3% per year. But then we have decided to reinvest some of the leverage into future growth. So a little bit more product and tech and more marketing. And the German launch now, also that we have set up a fund company and also pension companies in Denmark and in Finland. And the medium term financial targets is reiterated from last year. And looking at the quarter, we're mostly on track or for the year we are on track with all of those targets. We're only slightly behind on customer growth, 5% instead of 13 to 15%. And it's mainly due to, I mean, there was a lot of uncertainty and volatility during the spring that's impacted a little bit the customer growth. But we see in 2026 that there's good potential to reach the target level. There's positive markets. We continue to see effects of our marketing spend. We're launching a lot of new products in 2025, but also the real income for customers is increasing with lower rates and also lower inflation. and a little bit the key priorities for 2026 of course there's been a lot of focus on on the german launch in h2 passport of the license is done most of the organization is in place and we we've really been able to track good people which i think is a good sign And development is full speed ahead now, ongoing. And a positive with Germany is that the government has decided to introduce a pension account from 1st of January 2027, where you can save without having to pay tax until you take it out from the pension account. So it's a tax-efficient savings account. And we know that from Sweden and other Nordic countries, those tax efficient accounts are really good for attracting capital from customers and also increasing interest to invest in the capital markets. We, of course, are going to continue to have a strong focus on our fund business and the pension business, and not least to realize the potential in the Livrente Danish pension product. And we see that net savings and pension in Denmark overall is up 45% in 2025 versus 2024, and a big driver of that is Livrente. We focus a lot also on AI, both how we can integrate that into products, but also make our internal processes more efficient. And on the product side, we just launched since before AI summaries and news, and now we just launched AI summaries of quarterly reports. But it's going to be a lot more exciting features to come in the product area. On the process side, I think the most interesting area for us is agentic coding to see if we can make our development more efficient and get even higher throughputs. And then, of course, since we launched our public banking in all markets, we can develop and capitalize on that launch and also continue to release new functionality in this framework over the year. And last but not least, to maintain, of course, focus on cost control, focus on scalability and automation. So with that, I think I hand over to you, Marcus, for questions.

Great. Thank you, Lennart. So now we'll open up for questions. So like I said before, if you want to ask a question, just click the raise hand button. I'll then announce your name and I'll mute you. So the first question comes from Patrik Bratelius at ABG. Please go ahead, Patrik.

Do you hear me? Yes, we can. Perfect. Great. My first question is regarding the optimism there on the customer growth that you ended your presentation with. We are seeing that Sweden is taking positive steps. And you said that you are optimistic that you will reach your target here in 2026. Can you elaborate a little bit? on which geographies you're specifically optimistic about? And when do you foresee Sweden coming closer to the target level?

Yeah, but overall, it's a good potential for growth. It's a positive market sentiment. Like I said, we launched a lot of exciting products last year. We have more real income for the customers due to low inflation, low rates. With Sweden, I mean, as you know, we're strong in the investor segment there, the high-end segment, and we see if we can broaden into the more safe segments. And we see effect anyway of the marketing with higher awareness, higher consideration, and hopefully that can also spill over to a little bit higher customer growth during the year. It will not be the same as in the other countries because the main focus and our strength is still in the more high-end segments. uh but i would say we have a good potential to to to have a good growth in sweden but also in the other countries and not least denmark where we saw very strong growth last year in spite of very weak markets uh so with markets picking up in denmark it's going to be exciting to see that progressing over the year finland we just passed 700 000 customers really good momentum but also really good momentum in norway so we are positive that we should be able to reach the growth target.

Okay, thank you. In terms of cross-border trading, we've seen an increasing share the last couple of quarters. How do you view this in terms of how temporary is this increase or are this a longer trend that we should see continued increase of share of cross-border trading?

That's a good question. I mean, it is part due to the country mix as we grow customer base more in countries outside of Sweden. So now with Denmark, Finland, where they traditionally trade more cross-border because they have a small home market. Of course, that trend will continue and drive the cross-border share over time. But then we also see, not least during H2, strong cross-border trading, both in the US, but also in Europe. And not least, we've also been launching 10 new markets in Europe for trading, which has been good. But also in some Nordic markets, especially Denmark, around Nordisk. But I think it's a big potential for cross-border trading going forward. Of course, the share of... Homebuyers is still strong. 70% is invested in Nordics. So I think it's room to diversify more. But of course, it's more and more foreign shares on the portfolios. And that in itself will lead to more cross-border trading. So I think over time, we see higher levels. But then, of course, it will go a little bit up and down versus the market sentiment in different markets.

Thank you. And the last question is regarding the private banking concept that you have launched now in all geographies. Could you perhaps share some early reflections on geographical differences?

Yeah, but it's been very well received in all of our markets. We've been running it the longest in Sweden since we launched in the summer. And we see an uptick in both net savings and customer numbers in the PB segment. I think we have a very big potential in the other countries as well. But of course, they've not been live that long, but off to a good start, I would say. And it's been, like I said, it was very well received.

I see. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you, Patrik. Next question comes from Jakob Hesslervik at SEB.

Good morning, everyone. So two questions from my side. If we start with the new NII guidance for 2026, I assume that is on a flat or the current existing deposit base. Given it grew double digit almost 20% in 25 over 24, What is your outlook on deposit development during 2026?

Yeah, I think we estimate that deposit will grow in absolute terms from a growing customer base and also strong net savings capital to that. Of course, deposit versus savings capital is probably not going to take any dramatic jumps unless we have a real downturn in the market. Then, of course, it will move really fast. But in absolute terms, we expect the possible levels to grow.

All right, thank you. And now finally, the new German pension savings account launching in January 2027 appears to be quite significant. How large do you estimate this market opportunity to be and what preparations are needed to capitalize on it?

Yeah, I mean, it's going to affect all the working population in Germany. And you know, only 70% of Germans today invest in the capital markets. There's, of course, a huge potential to attract more capital into the capital markets. And you can buy ETFs and funds in that wrapper. And we know from experience from Sweden and other countries that those tax-efficient wrappers are really good for attracting both capital but also interest from customers in the capital market. So I think over time it's going to be a very big product and it's very good that Germany has launched now a tax-efficient wrapper. They haven't had that before, so it's a big step forward. It's a bank product. It's not an insurance product. It's not that difficult for us to implement it. Either we don't need an insurance company in Germany to do that at this stage. So, of course, a product we will secure that we have at launch. Or when the product is launched from 1st of Jan, then 2027. Perfect.

Thank you.

Thank you, Jakob. Next question comes from Nicolas from BNB Paribas.

Hello, can you hear me? Yeah. Right. Thank you very much for taking the questions. Just three questions for me. Should we go one by one? Yeah. In Sweden, I've noticed the fund flows, I mean, sorry, the net savings have gone down again sequentially this quarter. It's the same as happened for Avanza. Can you tell us what's your view on the momentum in net savings in Sweden?

Yeah. I mean, overall, I mean, we see a strong pickup in our savings in Sweden in 2025 versus 2024. It was a little bit down in the end of the quarter, but it's more due to more one-off movements. You know, we have customers in Sweden with really a lot of capital, so it can swing a little bit month to month, and especially at year-end, people always... adjust the portfolios a little bit so it's nothing strange with that but hopefully we can with the positive market market sentiment also in 2006 we should be able to see a good net savings also in sweden all right thank you and still in sweden the uh so the

increasing the isk cap i mean i understand it was already in force uh in 2025. can you tell us uh among your customers uh if you've seen people already making the most of the of the increase by uh adding uh more saving than their usual pattern in 25 or if it's something that we should see more coming in in 26 or even 27.

Like I said, in 2025, it's all very good net savings in Sweden, both in retail, but not least in private banking after the new concept that we launched. And part of that is probably due to the cap. In retail, part of that is probably due to the cap. Let's see how it plays out in 2026, but it should be good for the retail segment or the flows from retail segments.

Okay. And in Finland and Denmark last year, you had meaningful product launches with the tax wrappers delivered in Denmark and the endowment product in Finland. Could we have any update on the customer numbers you've signed up for each product? And what's the what's the savings capital you have in each product?

In the Rapport, it's around 5,000 accounts and 2 billion in capital, about the same in livränte. But the livränte is also pulling with it the bank pension. In many cases, you cannot transfer your pension unless you can receive both the bank pension and livränte pension. Before, we couldn't do that, so we lost out on a lot of the transfers. So with Livrenta, we get both Livrenta money, but we then get the bank pension transfer money as well. So overall net savings in pension in Denmark is up 45% in 2025 versus 2024, so around 5.2 billion, I think, in 2025. So we're really happy with the pension development in Denmark. In Denmark, of course, you want to see a little bit higher level on the wrapper in Finland. But it's building from below because, as you know, you cannot transfer a wrapper to us without realizing tax, which is an issue. So it's mainly built from the ground up in our customer base.

Okay, thank you. And just the last one very quickly, because the line cut from the previous person asking, in Germany, the pension product, would you be looking to launch it from very early on in 27?

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

Yes, it's going to be a very important product.

Thank you very much. That's all for me.

Thank you, Nicolas. Next question comes from Edmund Kidd from D&B Carnegie. Can you hear us, Ermin? Looks like you're unmuted.

Blocked by Zoom.

All right, well, we can let Ermin try again later. Let's go to Martin Eriksstedt at Handelsbanken.

Thank you. Can you hear me? Yes. excellent so first question uh i saw that fund income coming in above expectation seems to be a matter of fund margins in sweden largely improving two basis points between quarters now from from what i can see at least quickly this represents the largest channel break a positive trend break for for this otherwise declining margin i think it's been declining since 2022 at least So are we seeing a one-off quarter here? Is there a more sticky change in fund mix among customers? I think you mentioned in the presentation that there is more of Nordnet's own funds in that mix.

Yeah, but I think in Sweden, the uptick there is also that, I mean, active funds have become a little bit more popular in quarter four. Also a lot of movements in different equities. But also it's probably a little bit uptick from FX also in funds where the customers buy international funds. So I don't think it's going to be a massive shift in margin. Let's see about that. But we're happy to have stabilized and maintained the overall margin in funds in Nordnet overall.

Understood. So there's a currency component to that one as well.

It is a currency component. It's smaller than, of course, in trading, but it is a currency component as well.

Okay, okay. And then for my second question, just quickly on Germany, I mean, 25 million for cost for the German expansion in Q4 is quite a ramp up from just 32 million for the first nine months of 2025, right? So at least I wasn't personally expecting you to fully reach the 25 year guidance. So, I mean, I know 57 million for the year is below the 60 you guide, but 25 million in Q4 is also clearly a run rate above what you now guide for 26. I just wanted to check if the cost is just lumpy or if there were any particular costs.

Yeah, but it's a little bit, I mean, both of you get more, of course, the organization in place, but also... that we're doing a lot of development and someone of course also related to development and different agreements and things like that so it's going to be a bit lump in it but it's also for next year we got 80 to 90 million sec it's going to be lower first half and higher second half but this doesn't represent an acceleration of the plan in any way it doesn't no okay understood that's all from me thank you

Thank you, Martin. Should we try Edmund again? See if you can unmute. I guess not. So Edmund, feel free to write your question or try to maybe call in. Let's go to Enrico Bozzone from JP Morgan.

Hi, good morning. Can you hear me?

Yep.

Thank you. Thanks for taking my question. This one on Germany, you clearly targeted break-even in 2029. Can you give us some color on maybe what sort of intermediate KPI you're going to track and whether you plan to disclose them? So for example, I think about in terms of customer acquisition, do you think you might be able to acquire some customers already from this year? Or is it going to be more a 2027 figure? And do you have some sort of numbers in mind that would indicate that you are on track? Thanks.

Yeah, well, of course, customer growth and net saving and customer acquisition cost is, of course, an important metric when we launch. We plan to, of course, take in some customers this year as well. But it's going to be more growth from 2027. But we don't want to disclose those numbers at this stage. So let's see how we guide on that at Ford. But we want to launch first and get going.

Thank you. And related to that, can I just ask, you clearly are a new player going into a market that is completely new. So the retail investors probably don't know you, don't know your brand, don't know your name. So can you just talk about in general terms, what is the marketing strategy to become better known with these clients? Is it pure marketing? Is there any other channel that you think you can pursue? I'm just curious from a strategic point of view, what is the approach?

Yeah, I mean, it goes both, of course, going to work on the PR track and we're going to have the savings economists also in Germany. So that concept has been really successful in the Nordics. But then, of course, we're going to spend on marketing. But I would say probably less on generic marketing, but much more tactical that we secure that we reach the right target group in the right digital channel. and as you know we don't we don't we don't focus on all market to start with it is mainly the investors segments uh customers with already money that's already on digital platforms with banks and and and and we want to attract them over to our platform with a good one-stop shop a good price and also good experience thank you thanks thank you next question comes from zach worse from autonomous research

Zach, can you hear us? Hi, good morning. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Sorry about that. Thanks for taking my questions. I have two. The first is on private banking. The release said that the focus in 2026 will be on developing the concept further by adding new products and implementing quality improvements. Can you give a little color on the roadmap here and what kind of products you think are missing that there is real demand for?

I could, but I won't say for competitive reasons. But I think we will work on a few interesting concepts that I think is going to be good. But we'll see when it comes. But it's definitely a frame where we're going to continue to launch new functionality over time, both in 26, but also in the years to come.

Yeah, understood. Fair enough. I'll try again with the plans to integrate AI into products, but also on the internal efficiency side. Can you just talk through what the plans are there or where you see potential?

Yeah, so I mean, I think it's probably the most potential is on the product side. I think we're going to see a lot of things happening on the product side with AI. So far, we have new summaries with AI. It's been really popular. When you open an instrument, you see the summary of all the news for that instrument. But we also now just launched AI summaries of quarterly reports. But we're looking at a lot of other exciting features that we can do with AI when it comes to products. And of course, over time, it can be more advanced to fully analyze your portfolios and come up with recommendations and things like that. But it's also, of course, a regulatory component to that. But I think it's not going to happen with AI on the product side. That's very exciting. But then on the efficiency side, I think, of course, you can optimize some operations processes, customer service processes. But I think the main upside for us, if it can increase efficiency development with a GenTech AI coding approach, Because our bottleneck is still tech, and we have a long, long wish list of things to do so that we can become, we are fast today, but if we can become even faster, we can launch a lot of exciting stuff over the coming years. So we look a lot into GenTech AI coding as well.

Is that a project that's underway now? Do you have any kind of timeline?

Yeah, it is a project. We have a specific tech team now enabling the infrastructure for agentic coding. And of course, we use AI tools in different shapes and forms already in development or in tech. But I think it's a lot to do on efficiency. If the AI models continue to evolve exponentially as they've done, I think... it will be possible to make coding more efficient over time.

Great. Thanks very much.

Thanks.

Thank you, Zach. Next question comes from Mike Sanderson from Barclays.

Good morning. Just a couple of ones from my end, if that is okay. First of all, you mentioned in your writing about the payout and then you think you've got the potential for buybacks. Could you remind me of how you think about when you do buybacks and timing and scale given the given the capacity you want to keep to take on savings. And then the second question, sorry, putting it together, you did a lot of investment in marketing last year, or talked about the investment in marketing. Do you think that you've now got to a level of marketing spend that's recurring, or are there step-ups that you think will need to go with some of these new products, excluding Germany? I sort of understand Germany's obviously...

um very separate but um within the other existing markets yeah i don't know do you want to take the payout yes i mean we have the as you know the the the major constraint for us is uh not the risk weighted capital because it's rather the the leverage ratio and uh in that we have the span of 4.0 to 4.5 and that's where we're aiming of course And we have lost it. We have bought back about 627 million of stocks up to year end and continue. And that will be about a billion. We have plans going forward, but we also have this 81 that will have its first quarter on 6th of November this year. So we are a little bit cautious of how those develops. But we are aiming in the long run to get down to the 4.540 level. leverage ratio, that's where we're aiming at. And then we have to look upon how is the deposit developing and what capacity do we need to be able to have that. And of course, Germany is one part that we have to adapt to. If there's an increase in deposit or not. So we will come back to this later on with how we will act further on. But the first one is here to look upon the 81 that has its first call in November this year. Thank you, Lennart.

And also on the marketing, I mean, we see positive effects on the market that we've been doing now, both in awareness and consideration, not least in our core segment investors. But I think this new level around 105, 110 million SEC in Nordics is a good level for us also going forward. So we don't plan an additional step up from this level right now.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Next question comes from Oliver Carruthers from Goldman Sachs.

Hi there. Morning, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. Three questions for me. So first on cross-border trading. So if demand stays at a higher level for cross-border trading, any thoughts on how pricing might evolve for this in your markets over time, given it's currently more expensive for your customers? Second question, have you finalized what your pricing strategy is going to look like in Germany yet? And how dependent is this strategy going to be on how the German incumbent shift models in response to the PFOF roll off later this year? And then final question, any early thoughts on prediction markets, which have obviously been growing a lot, particularly in the US, and thoughts around being a distribution layer for those markets? Thank you.

Yeah, the cross-border trading and I think it is like we discussed the potential also going forward due to the country mix we have, but also that the customers are more diversified now and actually trade more cross-border shares. But it, of course, then boils down to market sentiment in each market. But the fundamental is there. When it comes to pricing, we've introduced, as you know, FX accounts on the tax wrappers. We had it on the depot accounts before. If you trade a lot, you can sign up for an FX account. So that's also appreciated. It's not that many customers that use it, but the ones that trade a lot believe it's beneficial. So we don't see that we need to do anything on pricing except from that. Pricing strategy Germany, of course, we discussed that a lot. I can't comment on all the specifics there. But we will see also how the PFOF plays out. The ban is going to be there, but... But it seems like the platforms and banks in Germany will get some revenue streams from the marketplaces anyway, but in different shape and form. So we need to see how that plays out and how we're going to play that game. Prediction markets, I mean, it's interesting. It's really booming in the U.S. I mean, it's something we look at, but we haven't decided to do anything there at this stage. And it's also regulated. I think regulation around that is a bit different to Europe versus the U.S.,

okay thank you uh there are no more questions on the line but i have a written question here so can you say anything of the typical behavior of the german customer group that's already active on in the market and you're targeting are they trading a lot of equity ctfs etc are they owning funds single stocks is it similar to the behavior you have in your nordic customer base

Yeah, for the investor segment where we target is fairly similar. It's more, I mean, they trade a little bit more ETFs than funds. ETF has become very popular in Germany, mainly due to pricing because the funds have had a very high price normally. I think we can do a lot of good stuff in the fund business in Germany with our products and our pricing. When it comes to trading, I mean... Some trade, I mean, of course, on the primary markets, if you trade a little bit more, you do it on primary markets, but some also trade international shares on market-making markets like TradeGate, where you have Euro-denominated U.S. equities, for example. So that's a little bit different, but the ones that trade a lot and higher trades, they trade on the main markets.

Great. So I think that was the last question for today. So thanks everyone for attending the presentation. And please visit our website, nonetab.com or reach out to me if you have any questions. Thank you so much and have a nice day.

Thanks Marcus. Thanks.