SkiStar AB (publ)

warm welcome to everyone to this call the day before a midsummer celebration in Sweden and me and Martin we will try to guide you through this presentation so we have a short agenda and we have decided to have a repetition of our capital market day we had in last October just as a start and flying in and giving setting the scene of our Q3 report And then we'll go into the highlights. Martin will guide you through the highlights and some numbers and then I will try to give you some outlook and how it looks forward. So let's begin on the short introduction of our position. We are really proud that we have a lot of satisfied guests. We have a lot of satisfied employees and also we have had the quite strong growth the past couple of years. And if I look into our foundation, we're really glad to have a lot of, like I said, satisfied coworkers and employees and why our culture is extremely strong since we have been running this business since 1975. We also have one of, we are also one of the largest employer for young people Sweden, and we are really proud also by starting up an integration project to also make sure we attract even more people from areas where we normally don't attract people. We're really proud of our sustainability agenda, how we drive sustainability to get more active people, and also how we would like to reduce our footprint for the environment going forward. Last but not least, we really want to make sure that our guests could visit us in a safe and secure environment, which become even more important going forward. And if I look into our main areas of focus we mainly focus on two areas one is around the mountain operations where we gathering all activities happening at the ski resorts like ski school like our shops like our hotels etc and the other one is around our property development where we make sure that we taking care of all our land we have within or at our resorts and today we have More than 5 million square meters land. And we will later on in this presentation show a bit more of how we are developing that land. We are one of the largest players worldwide. We sometimes forget about the strong situation we have as a company. And we are the fourth largest player in this area of business, you can say. And we also are a market leader in Scandinavia. And what I think is important is the upcoming slide, Martin, which I will talk about here, is the unmatchable position we have in Scandinavia. And Sälen is the largest ski resort. And today, when we also launched our new number of ski days, where we can say that we are increasing 7% versus last year, and we are now above six million ski days, which is of course also so much higher that we are even beating the record year we had 21-22. And I also would like to highlight that Sälen, our largest destination, is as big as the size of a city called Västerås in Sweden, with 100,000 people, which is coming in every week. So every Sunday, Saturday, Sunday, we're exchanging 100,000 guests at our resort in Sälen, which is, of course, quite impressive. And just making sure that we have 3,000 beds, which needs to be cleaned within four hours, is actually quite impressive. And again, we are the leading holiday organizer for Scandinavia. We really would like to highlight the number of beds we are taking care of within our system. But not really to forget about this, the number of slope and the number of lifts we are taking care of. And sometimes we get the question about our, why do we need to increase our prices? And I mean, to maintain 220 lifts and making sure that they have the highest standard and also that we keep our destinations in the best shape. Of course, cost money, since we are also buying all these spare parts from Europe, mainly Italy and Austria. Of course, that impacts our cost for repair and maintenance at all these lifts as well. Again I think what's really important when we're talking about developing our land and this is a picture of how we would like to develop our land by for example buying and installing a new lift so if you look into these four pictures the picture up to the left is showing an area in Salem where we have two round circles. One is showing one of the largest slopes in our destination is Gustavsbakken having more than two million races every year versus where we now invested in a ski lift called Södrosen Express and how it looked last summer before we installed it down to the left and up to the right is how it looked when we opened the lift. And that was actually one of our best investments this year, how we could move traffic from these busy areas into this area. And now we're also developing detailed plans on the picture down to the right. and really right right on the right picture you can see how we will develop a new housing close to the slope ski in ski out and later this summer we will get the permission to start also construction and build down in the end of this slope as well so really working on the development of detailed plans which are very important for us. Transformation to international guests has become even more important and that's why we're really glad that our focus to go even increase the number of guests will actually come from more international guests going forward and the international guests they are spending more and they are spending more due to that they are also staying longer at our destinations so our ski pass weekly ski pass has increased dramatically and that is very much due to these international guests which are staying longer and they are also buying more products in average versus Scandinavia, versus Sweden and the Norwegian guests. Last but not least, we updated our financial targets to 6% growth, 18% operating margin, debt EBITDA to maximum 2.5 and also dividend up to 40 to 60 percent. And now we will guide you through our Q3 summary, but also how it looks accumulated and how we relate to these new financial goals. So Martin, give us some highlights from Q3.

Yes. To start with, as Stefan already said, we continue to grow organically. We grow 5% in the quarter and this was mainly driven by our international guests from Denmark, UK, Netherlands, Germany also. We saw a slowdown in the end of the winter season after our Easter session the last weeks in April. The growth in the quarter mainly comes from ski paths and the property development. And I will come back to that a little bit later. We have a stable operating profiting amounting to 418 million, which is 65 million higher than last year. And those of you who remember, we had some one-off costs last year of 48 million. So the growth in operating margin is 4%. in line with the organic growth. We managed to increase our operating margin with three percentage units. So now we are running the quarter at 28. operating margin and this is a combination the increase is a combination of both sales but also a better cost control. We talked a little bit about our retail growth which is one of our main drivers and during the year the retail has been growing really really well and in this quarter we continue to grow 10% equals to 8 million Swedish krona This quarter, the main part of the growth comes from our online sales. In previous quarters, it has been both physical store and online, but this quarter it's mainly from the online sales. And our own brand Equip, Equal People, grew with 32% this quarter, which is really, really positive because in this product we have a little bit better margins than in our rest of our retail products. So continued growth in Equip is really, really good. and as i said we have had a good cost control and what we are looking for also in this quarter we are using new technologies maybe some of you heard about our test of new technology for spreading out our guests in the ski system that we used you in order during the easter so that is one kind of product we are trying or new technology we are trying to implement in our business. And we had some good positive feedback from our guests on this. Looking a little bit on our digital footprint this quarter and if we look at the number of sessions we were down 3.4% in this quarter but what is really nice to see is the conversion rate that grow even more. It grew with 8% so a conversion rate of 3.38% which is really good and we strengthen this conversion rate in this quarter compared to last year. And if we look at our accumulated numbers, we are very, very close to 31 million visits in our skistar.com platform and our apps. And in total, there are all very close to 9 million unique users using our platform. So this is a really good strength. And as you see also, we have a good conversion rate in the quarter, a little bit higher commercial rate in the quarter compared to our accumulated numbers which is really glad to see.

So Stefan and I just would like to give a summary of the winter and also give you a flavor of what really happened during the winter season. So we had probably one of the longest or most snowy winters we had 100 days open actually and uh personally i i jumped into the ski boots already november 4th actually and then i were skiing up to the last day in april but we kept opening to may actually which was amazing so really strong winter season then also i must say what martin also spoke about this We really feel that we have a stable and proven customer demand even in these recessions. And we really would like to highlight that we are a stable business even though that it could be ups and downs in the economy. And this will be balanced with both international but also domestic guests of course. And now we have a strong increase of international guests. And we have plus 24% from Denmark. We have 68% if you bundle UK, Netherlands and Germany. And as you can see, we are down with Swedish guests. And that's very much due to the economy. And we can be very specific where we have dropped these guests. And they are very much related to spots in Sweden where we have a high cost for interest rate, etc. So we hope that... I don't say maybe say promises, but what will come with lowering debts or not debts, but the interest rates will be positive for us going forward with the combination of international guests and also Swedish. We have a record in ski days to increase 7.4% is very strong, meaning 6.1 million and plus compared to the pandemic year. And this is... 24% increase in this six to eight day ski pass and of course that is very much due to the international guests which could be helpful for us also in the coming season where we see that the international guests drive this growth for us. Ski school record, 108,000 participants, one of the largest ski schools in the world, amazing. Ski rental increase also and guest survey shows that we have very strong satisfaction coming and visiting us which is of course very important for us going forward. Just to give you a brief indication of how our season looked like and this is extremely transparent for us to show you this pattern and this is also showing how we say how strong we are even in these mid periods that we are of course dependent on the break seasons, Christmas break as well as this winter break for the schools. However, we managed to balance this out and as you can see in the end of the season, first of all the Easter where little bit stronger booking from guest night but we had a very bad weather situation during Easter which could cost us a bit of not as expected ski pass sales to be honest. We lost those daily ski pass sales since it was actually raining over Easter. Then we had a bit of let's say we didn't push enough for the week 16 and 17 as we maybe should have done but this is a very good learning for us and something we already have started to plan for the upcoming winter season so we look forward for how we could balance this out to become even better in the end of the season and really much important here is that we are actually the only ski resort having open as long as we have so we have decided also that we will continue to talk to the customers that we will have open the full season versus many other ski resorts which are closing very much related to earlier in the season and I think this is an important message for us we will continue to drive and now we have completed the acquisitions of the ski school in Trysvill and now we also have a very nice map of how we have all services included at our destination. So something positive and something also help us to continue to drive growth and also for our guests to recognize that SkiStar are running all these operations at the resort. Martin, back to Q3 and accumulated results.

Yes, thank you. So if we look at our 12-month rolling result, we have an operating profit of 788 million amounting to 16% EBIT. We are operating margin and you know that we have a goal of 18%. So we have taken half of the way from 14 to 18 at the moment. And what is really positive to see is that we are continuing to strengthen our part of the profit that comes from the operation side. and you know that we had a lot of property development sales in the fourth quarter last year and we are in dialogues in the property development part as well and we are aiming to close transactions during q4 as well so we continue With our guidelines, long term between 70 and 100 million. And this year we would be aiming around the lower number in this property development and profit that comes from that part. Moving on, we look at the sales in the quarter from our different categories. You see that the main driver this quarter was sales from Skipass, and this was mainly driven by price increases. We also have growth in Skiscode, but as Stefan said, this is related to the acquisition of Trysilguiderna in Trysil. So all the 11 million in growth from ski school comes from acquisition. And then in the quarter, we had a property development project in order that was sold. We have also made some sales of our vacation club apartments so there are still transactions going on in the quarter and those of you who have gone into the details into the report you see that we have a loss in the property development part this quarter related to those property sales but you also see that we made it close in June of some more developments in order in this project with profits so in all in all we are moving in the right direction in that. But what I want to say is that we are in dialogues here and we are aiming to close deals in the fourth quarter. So in all in all stable sales mainly driven by ski paths and property development and ski school. Looking into our different segments we see that if we start with operation of ski resorts, here it's a quite stable development. We increase the profit with 14 million and this is mainly driven by the higher sales but also lower costs for marketing and energy for example. And in the energy sector we start to see the prices are coming down and that gives effect on our energy prices in this quarter. Moving on to the property development. We increased the profit in this quarter with 40 millions and most of that is related to the one offs that we had last year. We had a write down on vacation club and we had a write down in our assets in Skiab as well. So we all in all most of the of the result has to do with one-off costs in the last year's result. Moving on to operations of hotel, as you saw on the previous slide, the sales is more or less the same. So here we are really, really working hard with our cost control, which is the main reason why we increase the operation profit in the hotel segment. So they are doing a really good job focusing on cost control and optimizing their organization to the sales that they have. If we move into the quarter it's really positive and glad to see that we have increases in all categories and this is driven by both volume so as Stefan referred to we had record in skier days and that volume increase we also see here and also price. So it's a mixture of both volume and price when we look at the year-to-date numbers and the driver behind the volume is as we say the international guests. Moving on to the operating profit, most of the profit is generated in our operations of ski resorts. And we also see that we have made quite a big step in profit, better profits in the hotel operations, which has increased the profit with 40 million compared to last year, the first three quarters. So same pattern here. The last slide I want to talk about when it comes to numbers is our summary on the Q3 and I have mentioned more or less everything except cash flow from operations and if we look at the cash flow for the first three quarters we increased the operating profit with almost 400 or with 400 million so we have a strong cash flow year to date If we look at the Q3, the cash flow is not so strong in this quarter, but that is due to that we paid off some debts in this quarter that we built up during the second quarter. So that's why I think when we look at the cash flow, look at the long-term trend for the whole three quarters, because that shows more the pace that we are running at. And it's mainly the sales that are coming down and the profit that are coming down to cash flow. So we have a good conversion there, but we have also been efficient in our working capital this year. And we continue to have a strong financial situation. The net debt, which is one of our financial goals, is at the moment 1.5, which is lower than at the same time last year. So a few comments around sustainability. As Stefan mentioned, we have had a good increase in our activities around ski school. And this is also driven by the international guests because that category are using our ski school a little bit more than our Swedish and Norwegian guests. So that is really positive and we are continuing that work. We also look into the ecosystem and impact so we have this year as before we always do the cleaning of the mountains and we are collecting a lot of trash This year we have 8.6 tons of trash we have collected, which is a 6% increase. But this is a really important project that we run every year after the end of the season. And Stefan also mentioned in the beginning that we are looking into the diversity and inclusion. And we have had an event in Hammarbybacken where we had Almost 300 youth attended with interviews and had also lead to new employees for the upcoming season both summer and winter. So moving on to outlook Stefan.

Thank you very much, Martin. And I think this transformation to going to full and all year round business is continued. And we are now opening up this weekend fully open with summer activities and events from this week onwards. And I've got questions from some media this morning about the booking situation for the summer. And we are slightly down versus last year. And that is mainly due to more some technicalities, I must say. We had some big events in Åre last year, and we had no ferry to Oslo, which is passing into Hemsedalen. That's technicalities, if I say like that. But if I look into the largest resort like Trysil, we have up 9% this summer. But it's very small numbers still. It's the summer. is still less than a full week of the winter break. So we see this is a big potential. But we continue to work with attract more international guests. This is very important for us. And we have increased our marketing activities, especially in Denmark, to go directly to Danish guests. And that has paid off, as you have seen in the booking. We also continue, as Martin has said, around the property development and We're really focusing on development of projects and detail plans to really be ready when the market is there. But at the same time, we're also doing business all the time here. And we are not pushing to get results in a quarter. We are looking into this on a yearly basis. And we are keeping our promises, as we have said before, to guide you to this interval we have said before. And then we continue to invest. We have lowered our investment pace for the upcoming year and we are doing that really since we are more focusing on the core business now and making sure that we are investing on the right things so to say. And we also continue of course to have a good maintenance on our properties and ski lifts etc. What we are really proud of right now is the winter booking. The winter bookings for next winter looks extremely strong, plus 9%. It's really driven by international guests. That's what I said. It pays off our focus. And already 30% versus 27% last year is now booked for the winter. So super good and something really inspirational. Also what Martin mentioned about AI we are also now implementing this queuing system to show in real time queuing for the lifts etc and that we will be implementing etc the more specific in marketing etc so AI is something we're also looking into very interesting actually. So just a highlight on the property development that we have a way of how we use this value chain within our property and it is very important to show you that we are not selling off land to gain short-term property gains and Martin when he showed now that we had a slow start of this year and of course when we develop an area like we have done in Åre we take a lot of costs in the beginning before when we make the deals and when we make the deals we can make the profit in the end of such big projects etc. So this is how we also develop the land and also how we can increase our profit. And just to give you a highlight of how our situation looks like right now. We have increased the pace of developed land areas into completed detailed plans and This is a new picture we haven't shown you before. So I think this is very important. We are both showing the SkiStar completed detail plans and also the ongoing detail plans. So I think that's important. But we have also added what we have in SkiJab plans. So you can see the full pipeline. Here you can also see the number of units and also you can see the number of beds we are planning to expand going forward. What's very important is that this is not something we are planning to do tomorrow. This is our roadmap which is up to 2030. These ongoing detailed plans and where we have the completed detailed plans which we will continue to develop versus we will continue to develop these possible detailed plans going forward. And if we do the first two rows, we have still 77% land left in 2030 to continue to develop. So this is a quite interesting asset we have in our books. and then we never know how much we can get for square meters but it could be an interval between 2000 up to 20 000 sec per square meter and then just to give you an indication of what this land bank could have for such a value in our books and as I show you the booking situation for how this winter season ended, we would like to give you a highlight of how this upcoming winter season look like. And the blue graph here is showing the upcoming winter and the red one for how it was last winter. And if you look into how it looks like, the 9% is actually little bit stronger booking the first weeks is weaker and that's very natural because that's a calendar effect due to when Christmas come etc so if you look into the different periods you can see that we have a stronger booking in the actually each week if I just take out week nine and ten and we actually then have a a stronger booking. And if you then the Easter comes later this year, 16 versus 14, and that's where you can see a change there as well. But in the end, we're extremely satisfied to see again this stable booking pattern that we don't have the deep downs, et cetera. We have a stable situation in booking, which we are very proud of and also make SkiStar very unique. And also we have heard now that many ski resorts decides to close just after Easter, but we decided to keep open to make sure that all the people who have invested in housing at our resorts could come and visit us even though that many other ski resorts have closed. So we are very happy with this situation. So lastly but not least we are really fighting for white winters and we are doing that together within our teams with our organizations and also now together with many other ski resorts worldwide since we have taken an initiative to come together to make sure we can keep the white winters which is something also we are proud of to be leading position of. So by that We end this presentation and we open up for Q&As to the audience.

Thank you. To ask a question, you will need to press star 1 and 1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 1 and 1 again.

We will now go to your first question. One moment, please. And your first question comes from the line of Fredrik Lithell from Handelsbanken.

Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. Thank you for taking my question. I have two. I hope that is okay. And congrats to a good report. The first question is really about the 9% growth in bookings. You described it well. You have a good picture on it and how it flows over the various seasons. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the base of beds that you have these metrics on. So is the base of beds increasing year over year as well, either from your own projects or hotel beds, or from that you have recruited more private homeowners into your base? It would be interesting to hear. So that's the first question. The second one is really on the summer activities. Can you describe more what actions you take to lure people up to the mountains? What have you done in terms of smaller investments in mountain bike trades or whatever it might be? It would be interesting to get some more color on your actions there. Thank you.

Thank you, Fredrik, and thank you for taking the first two questions. I will actually try to answer you on those ones. If I take the first questions and we have really actually accelerated our work to get more beds into our own booking system and we have a slightly increase of that number of beds for next season so far. Still we are not talking about a huge amount of more beds but I think it is a hundred new properties which has come to our booking system. So quite slow increase but we're working more actively to get in more beds into our booking systems. Then we of course see that more and more guests are not guests but owners private house owners are renting out the beds themselves so we see an increase on platforms like Airbnb like Facebook and also our Norwegian which I now forgot the name of which is increasing quite dramatically. So we believe that due to this economic situation more and more will continue to rent out the private homes actually. So that's the first question Fredrik and let's see if that was a good answer for you. Then the second one is that we have increased our marketing quite heavily this summer. to drive traffic to our destinations. At the same time, we also have made investments in a little bit more trials, so to say bike trials. And then we have, but not so much actually, but we are more focusing to getting the guests up and running. Then the investment in Trysilguiderna in Trysil helped us to get this climbing park It helped us to get biking guides. It helped us to also get this rafting experience and also some new activities. And we can quite clearly see that Sysyl is actually the one of our summer destination, which also is most booked this summer with plus 9%, but still on, again, on the low levels, I must say.

Very good. On the first one there, can I just come back to the base of beds? Can you in your statistics see in any way the share of ski paths that are coming from external sort of skiers that are not booked on your rooms or beds? Is that possible for you?

Yes we can see that a total holiday booked within skistar.com versus another bed you have a higher turnover the customer buys more when they are into our systems that is something we are seeing but the difference but what we are really looking into is to get more properties into our system during peak periods like Christmas when we are fully booked and when there are these cold beds standing empty those beds we really would like to have in our systems or that those bed owners actually put them out into the market because when there is so these cold beds I will not use the word problem but we would like to get more out of these cold beds like your beds Fredrik in Sälen or Martin's beds in Sälen when they are not there I really would like to have them in our system.

That's perfect thank you very much.

Martin, you would like to add something into Fredrik's question as well?

Yes, the second question around the summer. We are also continuing to develop our activity passes in all destinations, putting more and more of our activities into one pass at all destinations. We started with that last year and we are continuing to develop that product as well this year.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Once again, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 and 1 on your telephone keypad.

We will now go to your next question. One moment.

And your next question comes from the line of Carl Johan Bonnevere from DRB Markets. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning, Stefan and Martin. Just to continue on Freddy's question on the mediated accommodation during this season. Could you give us a feeling for how big increase you saw in the object nights that you mediated during the season to get the full number for it?

Yeah, we increased last season with 5% versus the year before. So if I made a summary of that one. So, which of course helped us and that was one of our best booked seasons actually. I think it was the second or third best booked season from a number of properties or nights, so to say.

You showed the weekly pattern. What would the occupancy level be for the whole season?

What we see is that if we look at the different destinations, the pattern that we have is most of our destinations, Säl and Trysil, they are really quite good booking all over the season. And then we see a more traditional booking pattern when we go to Vemdalen, for example. The highest period, New Year, Christmas, February break and Easter break, we are more or less fully booked on all our destinations in those.

And we give you a number that I don't have the number in we can we can come back to that maybe Because I don't have the occupancy rate For in average, but I for example Hemsedal has almost been hundred the whole season Cecil has been close to hundred a lot of weeks and Salen Even those week two to six in Sälen is around 85-90% occupancy rate since we are very strong. But compared to Vemdal and we have during week two to six, for example, we're only around 50-60% booked, which means that that is one of the destinations we need to push a bit more, so to say. And that could be a bit of a destination question because if you look into Tryssel and Sälen, they are the closest to southern part and the one which has the highest rate of international guests, so to say. That's why, Fredrik, your questions are quite important to get even more beds going forward.

Exactly, exactly. And maybe if you start to increase the granularity slightly more also on the hotel operation, what kind of occupancy level you have in your own operation and what kind of room rate achievement you have and so on. would be a good number for the future, if nothing else, if you don't have it now.

But I can give you a comment on the occupancy rate on the hotels and more or less all of them. I mean, we have quite small ones in Vemdalen, but if we look at the other ones, they are more or less fully occupied. We are talking about 95% in average there. So we have really, really high occupancy rates in the hotels.

Very good. And when you look at the demand now, good growth in ski pass sales during this year, looking at the volume and obviously good price achieved as well. When you look at the mix there, how much is coming out of new customers that you haven't seen before and how much is coming out of recurring clients?

If I just take the Danish customer, which I think is quite interesting, we had more than 50% of new Danish customers coming in to us. which was super interesting to follow that number. And in general also the Danes increased with 24% last winter. So we can see that we have a lot of international guests which are coming to us and they like to come to us not only because the weak currency They have decided to come and visit us due to the climate change that they doesn't dare to book in Europe because of snow conditions and they book at our destinations because of that they want to make sure that they have snow on the winter holiday.

And do you see a bigger percentage coming through the airline starting to fly more on your Scandinavian Mountain Airport and towards Åre or Oslo? Is that possible to follow in the statistics in some way?

Yeah, we see an increase in number of flights and also number of passengers coming into Scandinavian Mountains Airport in Sälen. and most of the other guests that the passengers that fly in choose to go to a ski store resort. Here is the hotel apartments are really really attractive for those kind of guests flying in. So we are increasing number of guests coming in with flights, mainly driven by UK and Netherlands. But also a Danish customer is also flying in.

Do you have any idea how much more capacity is going to be put into the market next year? I've seen SAS being out talking about it and your Dutch airline also talking about it. Do you know how much more capacity they will have next year?

No, not in numbers. We don't know. We know it will be an increase in capacity to next season. There are some new directions that have been announced. And I think that will continue, see if there will come out something more. But an increased capacity, but we don't know exactly the number.

And Stefan, you mentioned the Swedish customer being slightly more reluctant during the season and also creating maybe a slower end of season than you had expected. How can you drive, say, the local customers more forceful going into the next season?

I think it is, if I look into the booking pattern between week 51 and week 10, We are quite or very comfortable with that booking. And then if I look into the period 11-18, Eastern is always, not always, but it's normally a good booking. So for us, it is to make sure that the customer decides to come to us and doesn't go somewhere else. And we will secure that with different type of offers and services. making sure that we will have the customer visiting our destinations because there is a market out there and we want to make sure to using our strength to get in even more visitors to our destinations during this period of time. And not to forget, maybe this is the best period in the mountains as well to be honest. I mean, we have long, bright days with a good climate normally and fantastic conditions. So personally, I just think we need to push that and show pictures from these lovely places during that period of time.

I like your sales pitch. I like your sales pitch. One final question from me. Looking at the CapEx 330 that you're highlighting for the next fiscal year, Is that a good new level, so to say, to reach your 2030 targets and what you'd want to do in strengthening the safety operations and also do what you look to do on the property development side?

We continue to say the 330 million that we have had for this year and the upcoming winter. And what we have said and repeat what we said in the capital markets day, we will continue We will finance our CAPEX development with our own cash flow going forward. So depending on how the seasons go and what cash flow we have, we will adapt the CAPEX to that. I think 330 is on the low side. We would probably, on average, be higher than 330, but we will probably not be as high as the 850 we had the year before, the last two years.

Something in between could be good, maybe. No, but I think it is a good ballpark from you, Martin, and I think this is very important that we had... maybe not maybe we had the debt we needed to take care of the last years and that we have taken care of and now we are in a much better situation and we have a very good roadmap of where we want to invest and how we want to invest them and next year we are preparing and not the upcoming winter but the winter after that the new lifting tree seal and that is what we're preparing for for example and we need to do it in steps So we are very clear on where we want to do it and how we want to do it. And that feels very good.

Excellent. Thank you very much and all the best out there.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. There are currently no further questions. I will hand the call back to yourself, Stefan and Martin.

Thank you very much for the questions. And we will come back to be a little bit more clear about the rate which was asked for next call. But we feel very good about this quarter, about this past season, but also how the outlook looks like. And we are quite comfortable about the very nice mix of how our bookings looked like. how we have managed our price increases, how we also have managed our cost base. And then also that the last question, how we will handle this capex situation. So very much looking forward for ending this this fiscal year and then very much looking forward for a new upcoming fiscal year starting in September so thank you very much for listening to us and we wish you all a happy mid