Stora Enso Oyj

Hello everyone, and welcome to Stora Enso's Q4 and full year results presentation. I'm Jutta Mikkola, Head of Investor Relations, and I'm delighted to be joined here today with our President and CEO Hans Solström and our CFO Niklas Rosenlev. We're kicking off the webcast with our clear theme, Sharpen Strategic Focus. It reflects the works we've done throughout 2025. and the momentum we're carrying into 2026. Today, we'll start with Hans, who will walk you through the key highlights and our strategic priorities. After that, Niklas will take you through our financial performance and we'll close with the main takeaways and what's ahead of us in 2026. Once we've covered everything, as usual, we'll open the floor for your questions. Thank you for joining us. Great to have you with us. Over to you, Hans.

Thank you, Jutta, and hello everyone. Great to have you with us. 2025 was a pivotal year for Stora Enso, marked by decisive actions to sharpen our strategic focus and unlock long-term value for our shareholders. In Q4, we completed the strategic review of our Swedish forest assets, a major milestone, and began the separation to form two strong companies, a leading renewable materials company with a sharpened focus on packaging and Europe's largest listed pure play forest company. We also launched a strategic review of our central European soil mills and building solutions operations to further focus our portfolio. Despite a challenging environment during 2025, we delivered resilient results with a sales of €9.3 billion and EBIT of €528 million. We continued ramping up the old consumer board line, a key part of our renewable packaging strategy throughout 2025. This weighted on our earnings by 140 million euros in total during the year, but strengthens our long-term position and competitiveness. Excluding Oulu, the underlying profitability improved across all business areas with biomaterials, the exception due to lower pulp prices. Our net debt to adjusted EBITDA improved to 2.8 times, supported by the divestment of approximately 175,000 hectares of Swedish forest land at a value of 900 million euros, and by our ongoing focus on cash flow and cost competitiveness. The Board of Directors will propose a dividend of €0.25 per share at the Annual General Meeting on 24 March 2026. Finally, we hosted a successful Capital Markets Day, where we introduced our new financial targets, strategic priorities and a clear roadmap for the coming years. Topics I'll return to shortly. But before that, let's review how we did with our sustainability progress. During 2025, we had strong progress on our sustainability targets. By the end of 2025, we have reduced scope one and two emissions by 61% from 2019 base year, well surpassing our 2030 targets to reduce emissions by 50%. I am also proud to say that Stora Enso once again has been included on CDP's Climate Change A-list, highlighting our strong transparency and performance in climate actions. His recognition affirms our dedication to sustainable growth through emission reduction, renewable material innovation and advancing the circular bioeconomy. Additionally, in partnership with IUCN, the International Union for Conservation of Nature, we completed a pioneering project that offers the forest sector a science-based framework for achieving net positive biodiversity impact. This collaboration helps forestry operations focus on the most effective actions to reduce species extinction risks while maintaining long-term economic value. But now let's look at the new financial targets and strategic priorities that we have set for the next years. Our strategic priorities, as set forth in our Capital Market Day, are clear. We want to lead in customer value creation, grow our business, expand our margins and generate strong cash flow over the cycle. We will achieve this through our continued actions in sourcing, operational efficiency, commercial excellence, working capital and fixed cost. All underpinned by a disciplined approach to capital allocation. Customer centricity is now at the forefront of our strategy. It drives us to push innovation, quality and sustainability across everything we do. With superior customer offering and the use of advanced technologies, we are raising the bar and setting new industry standards. So how will this show in our performance over the cycle? First, annual revenue growth of above 4% per annum. We have a strong track record of over 5% during the last decade for our renewable packaging business. We are well invested for the next wave and we will continue to lead in innovation, quality, sustainability and operational efficiency. Second, we are implementing our plan with speed and determination to reach about 10% EBIT margin. And importantly, this is fully in our own hands. We are putting profit and loss responsibility in place across six business areas and 23 P&L responsible business units, enabling determined execution of value creation actions and a strengthened focus on the core business. Third, we will distribute 50% of our net profit as dividends. Fourth, we will take our net debt per EBITDA to below one times through disciplined capital allocation and a continued focus on cash flow. Finally, we introduced a new reporting structure. Our packaging businesses will be regrouped into consumer packaging and integrated packaging alongside biomaterials and other reporting segments. These new segments will be applied starting in Q1, 2026. As just mentioned, one of our key strategic priorities is to expand margins through business focus, a strong performance culture and systematic value creation. The last two years show this is working. Despite headwinds from low consumer confidence and significantly higher wood costs, about 900 million euros annual headwind compared to the year 2021, our sales have grown and our underlying profitability has improved. This progress comes from our own actions that have more than offset the market headwinds during these years. And the work continues. In addition to the completed value creation programs achieving about 900 million euros profit impact during the years 2024 and 2025, we have identified additional 500 to 700 million euros of profit improvement initiatives, all with clear owners and being worked on as we speak. At the same time, the Oulu ramp up continues and waits profitability short term. Once at full capacity, it will add around 800 million euros in sales and support higher margins. With these levers, we are on a clear path towards reaching about 10% EBIT margin, excluding Swedish forests within two to four years, regardless of market conditions. The message is clear. Margin expansion will come from our own focus, our performance culture and disciplined execution. We are taking determined actions to build a better company and our own future. Let's talk about our recent innovation highlights. We grew our portfolio of premium packaging materials with the launch of Enso Velvet, a new uncoated solid bleached sulphide board with velvet-like smoothness on both sides. It is developed for luxury applications such as cosmetics, perfumes and other premium consumer goods where touch and appearance are important. It also ensures excellent printability. Enso Velvet is of course recyclable, supporting the shift towards circular packaging solutions. The absence of coating also means fewer materials are needed in production, resulting in a reduced carbon footprint while maintaining the premium performance expected from premium packaging materials. Stora Enso's CLT solutions enabled the construction of the world's first large-scale timber data center in Falun, Sweden, and the site is now expanding with two new data centers. Using mass timber drastically cuts embodied carbon and accelerates construction time. The developer, EcoData Center, is aiming to be one of the world's most sustainable data centers. By using mass timber supplied by Stora Enso, the company has created a scalable blueprint for a new type of sustainable infrastructure. World Packaging Organization awarded Stora Enso in three categories, e-commerce, food and other for sustainable and innovative design. Niklas, let's take a look at the financials. Thank you, Hans. So let's begin with group sales, development and EBIT for 2025, as well as then for the fourth quarter. Group sales increased to 9.3 billion in 2025. This was partially supported by structural changes, most notably the unical acquisition and the Oulu ramp-up. In Q4, sales declined, and this was due to slightly lower board prices and significantly lower pulp prices. Adjusted EBIT for the full year decreased. However, if we exclude the old ramp up, actually the profitability improved across nearly all business areas. The exception was biomaterials where significantly lower pulp prices weighted on performance. And in Q4, the reasons for the EBIT decline are pretty much the same. Underlying businesses were developing quite nicely, considering the tough market, and the all ramp up was the main reason for the lower EBIT. In general, market headwinds such as lower pulp prices were offset by value creation actions. Looking at the EBIT development for the full year, the impact of our value creation actions is clearly visible. Even with the significant decline in pulp prices, our price and mix improved by more than 100 million while volumes remain stable. As Hans mentioned earlier, we continue to face a sizable headwind from fiber costs, close to 300 million this year. Despite these headwinds, our ongoing cost and value creation actions had a good positive effect. Other variable costs and fixed costs declined by more than 200 million, supported by a leaner and more business-focused organizational structure. These actions have strengthened our ability to navigate market volatility and deliver a more resilient performance. The main drag on earnings for the year came from Oulu or the ramp up of Oulu, which had a negative impact on EBIT of roughly 140 million again for the full year. While Oulu weighs on short-term profitability, we do remain confident in the long-term value and industry leading quality this investment will bring once the line reaches its full potential in 2027. If we then move on to cash flow, despite the challenging market environment, we managed to safeguard profitability and improve cash generation. Cash flow after investing activities continued to be positive, as expected, following the gradual completion of the investment phase in Oulu. As we now become more disciplined with our capital allocation, combined with ending the heavy investment phase, we expect cashflow after investments continue to improve. So on that note, let's take a look at the net debt. Net debt decreased by almost 800 million in the third quarter, driven by the Swedish forest asset divestment, and remained stable in the fourth quarter. Our net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio is now 2.8 times. Operating working capital also remained stable at 7% of sales, and we intend to maintain it at these lower levels and reduce it further whenever possible. So let's take a look at our segment performance, starting with packaging materials. During the quarter, we conducted maintenance in some of our main sites. In addition, we continued to ramp up the new Oulu board machine. Despite this, profitability was preserved thanks to good value creation activities and strong customer offers. Sales decreased, driven by slightly lower consumer board prices and adverse currency effect from a weaker US dollar. Adjusted EBIT improved slightly year on year, despite a 31 million negative from the ramp up in Oulu. In packaging solutions, we delivered a positive result despite ongoing market challenges. Sales increased slightly, driven by higher sales prices from improved product mix and an increase in sales volumes. Adjusted EBIT increased year on year, supported by higher sales and a good momentum with value creation actions. So in summary, despite persistent overcapacity, actions to enhance product and customer mix combined with continued cost efficiency improvements helped protect margins. Moving from packaging to biomaterials. In biomaterials, the challenging market conditions continued. Demand for softwood and hardwood pulp was weaker in both Europe and China. Sales and adjusted EBIT decreased due to lower sales prices and volumes and adverse currency movements. However, intensified value creation actions, such as cost reductions measures, partly mitigated the negative effect. In wood products, markets continued to be subdued with high raw material costs and low construction market activity. Sales increased, mainly due to unicolor volumes and higher sales prices, both in classic sawn and building solutions products. Adjusted EBIT improved as the increase in raw material costs was more than offset by higher sales prices and value creation actions. Product curtailments were implemented to align with challenging market conditions. Finally, in forest sales were stable with no material differences in wood prices or volumes. EBIT decreased primarily due to the divestment of the 12% of Swedish forest holdings at the end of the third quarter. The fair value of the group's forest assets increased slightly to 8.5 billion euro or 10.75 per share. The results demonstrate strong operational performance within our forest assets and wood supply operations. So with that, I hand back to you Hans for concluding remarks. Thank you, Niklas. As we enter 2026, we expect market conditions to remain subdued and volatile, shaken by ongoing macroeconomic and geopolitical uncertainty. Our priorities are clear. We will continue to execute our strategy, drive proactive, systematic and determined work across the whole group. We continue to improve profitability, cash flow, and cost competitiveness through activities related to sourcing, operational efficiency, commercial excellence, working capital, and fixed costs, and maintain a disciplined approach to capital allocation. The demerger and listing of our Swedish forest assets will be a key focus, as will the ongoing strategic review of our Central European sawmills and ramping up of our Oulu site. I want to thank all our employees, customers and partners for their dedication and resilience during this transformative year. Together we are building a stronger, more focused and more sustainable Stora Enso. Thank you for listening and we are now ready to take your questions.

If you would like to ask a question, please use the raise hand function at the bottom of your Zoom screen. When it is your turn, you will receive a prompt to be promoted as a panelist. Please accept, wait a moment, and once you have been introduced, you may unmute yourself, turn your video on, and ask your question. Please only ask maximum two questions at a time. If you wish to ask more than two questions, please rejoin the queue. Our first question will come from Charlie Muir-Sands with BNP Paribus. You may now unmute your audio, turn your video on and ask your question.

Good morning, Jasmine. Can you hear me okay?

Yes. Hey, good morning, Charlie.

Morning. Yeah, thank you very much for the presentation and for taking my questions or apologies. I don't know why the camera is not coming on at your end. I just had a couple of questions on the packaging material segment on both pricing and on costs. Firstly, on the pricing side, I wondered if you could talk about the environment. Generally, we've seen obviously indexation reports suggesting that FBB prices are coming down a bit. You're one of your peers the other day also flagged pricing pressures in the liquid packaging board space, which is a grade that's obviously not price reported. So yeah, firstly on the pricing side. And then on the cost side, can you talk about what scale of tailwind you might envisage seeing from the fall in wood costs that we're starting to see in Finland and perhaps trickling over into Sweden? and when you would expect Olu to no longer be a drag. Thank you very much.

Yes, thank you very much, Charlie. So first of all, when it comes to liquid packaging board, we have multi-year agreements, which basically have meant that our prices have somewhat improved for this year compared to last year when it comes to caught on board. You're right that, you know, following statistics, there has been some slight decline in prices there. And then, as you also know from public sources, there has been price increase announcements in container board, in test liner, also in Europe happening lately. Then on the On the cost side, yes, following also here public statistics, wood costs in Finland and Sweden, especially pulpwood, have come down throughout the latter part of last year. But I don't want to take any stance on any predictions or forecasts here, how the things will play out. Regarding Oulu, we have guided now for the first quarter still a negative EBIT impact between 15 and 30 million euros on an EBIT level. And we remain confident there that we are continuing and progressing the ramp up in order to be then fully ramped up for year 2027.

Many thanks, Bert. For Q2, do you anticipate Olu still being a drag or should this be the last quarter?

Well, we don't give any further guidance there. I would say that the ramp up is progressing. Quality is excellent. The feedback from customers is really good and quality properties, even if we had high expectations, haven't even exceeded our expectations in some cases.

And finally, sorry, I saw that you're guiding to a much lower income from sale of emissions certificates in the year ahead. Which segments would those headwinds year-on-year apply to?

It concerns mainly three of our business units. So it's ScootShare, which is Pulp, in Sweden, then it's Fors in Sweden, which is caught on board, and then it's also Enocel Uimaharju in Finland, which is pulp. So it's mainly the biomaterials segment.

Our next question comes from Lars Kjellberg with Stifle. You may now unmute your audio, turn your video on, and ask your question.

Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. forecast would cost but if you can where we are today in Finland in particular and the pressures we've seen in Sweden if they were to stay where they are when would you start to see a positive impact from that um I'm also hearing that wood costs in Poland has gone up can you provide any color on that if if that is indeed the case I also want to question a bit about currency, because, of course, both the Swedish crown and the euro are very strong. You've had hedges, of course, right? But what sort of potential headwind would that be? And finally, I'll just stick with consumer board a bit. You have for a long time spoken to the pressures of imbalance in the market and soft demand. So the question is, as a big producer or consumer board, what sort of actions are you taking to rebalance the market and to get away from that pricing pressure? I appreciate closing assets is not your priority, but are you thinking about meaningful containment of capacity until demand resurfaces?

I'll take the first one. So the wood cost up or down, I mean, I guess the rule of thumb is three to six months. So first it goes into the wood yard and then it goes into production. So three to six months depends, but that's kind of the kind of rule of thumb which you could use. And then your question on consumer board. So yes, we have also taken some curtailed our capacity to some extent. I would say the primary actions here in a situation of low operating rates is to be the most cost efficient, to work on your costs and efficiencies and be closer to your customers than ever before and produce the best possible quality of product and service. That's the way to to manage in this kind of circumstances. You also had a question about the currency exchange rates. Do you want to? Yeah, I would say no, nothing particular there. I mean, dollar has, as you know, been a headwind for us, the weaker dollar, given that quite a significant chunk of products, not least pulp, is kind of dollar-priced. And then on the Swedish krona, of course, we have quite significant operations in Sweden. So a kind of stronger Swedish krona means more costs also. But I would say just in general that the dollar is the kind of main swing factor here.

Just to follow up, I was asking about Polish wood costs, if you have any cover on that. And if you can

running out of the consumer board mass yeah so first of all the the polish wood costs we we actually consume very little pulpwood in in poland because we are primarily using recycled fibers there to produce test liner so it's it's not that relevant for us uh when it comes to log costs in central europe they have been increasing but so so have also the the price of timber and so on goods. And you had some other question there, a follow-up question. Yeah, operating rates. Well, we are not commenting further on the operating rates.

All right. Thank you very much.

Our next question comes from Pallav Mittal with Barclays. Pallav, you may now unmute your audio, turn your video on, and ask your question.

Good morning. Can you hear me okay?

Yes, we hear you. Good morning, Pallav.

So three questions. I'll take it one by one. So just following up on the first question around liquid packaging board. So one of your peers has highlighted a difficult demand dynamic as well. And based on what we can see, one of your largest customers over the last few quarters has also highlighted a difficult volume backdrop. So just wanted to understand the demand dynamics, clearly your comments on pricing, we agree that it is a multi-year agreement and it is going up, but what are you seeing on the demand side of things?

Thanks to the multi-year agreements we have in liquid packaging board with our key customers, we see positive development both in terms of volumes and price.

Okay. And as you have now highlighted for the last few quarters that the market-related movements have been offset by our own actions. So if you could just help us understand, I mean, as we think about 2026, lower wood cost, etc. So if you were just to give us some guidance in terms of those two pockets, do you still expect the market-related movements to be a significant headwind and then offset by some of your own actions, which you have set 500 to 700 for the next three years?

Yeah, I think on the own actions, the teams are continuing the good work and certainly will continue during 2026 as well. What comes to wood cost, as Hans said, we just don't want to predict or comment on that. But on the own actions, we'll certainly continue to work on that. And there's a good tempo and momentum.

And then lastly, just on the EU test liner pricing that the industry is trying to pass through, any comments on how customers are reacting to it? Because now we are in the first week of Feb and it was expected to go live on the first of Feb. And do you think any of it will actually pass through given the cost environment and the demand backdrop?

Yeah, I don't want to speculate here, but I think there has been broadly price increase announcements, and there is a broad price increase attempt now in the industry, and it's, of course, badly needed by the industry.

Okay, thank you.

Our next question comes from Linus Larsson from SEB. You may now unmute your audio, turn your video on, and ask your question.

Good morning, gents. Hello, everyone. First off, a follow-up question on packaging materials. The price realization quarter on quarter in the fourth quarter was quite negative. minus 7% or so from what we can see. Could you please just explain that, you know, mix effects, real price changes, effects, how that all adds up. And then also please, if you could just clarify what you said previously on your multi-year liquid packaging board contract. What does that setup entail for 2026? Can you please just clarify, have you had renegotiations going into 2026 for a portion of that? And what's the nature of the agreements in place? Do they imply price hikes or price declines at the start of 2026? So just directionally, if you could just please clarify that. Thanks.

Yeah. Hi there, Linus. Good morning. So first, your latter question about liquid packaging board. So with most of our key customers, we have long-term multi-year agreements in place, implying improved pricing and volume for this year, but not for all. I mean, there are also customers where we have annual negotiations, but generally speaking, speaking for the majority, there are multi-year agreements in place. And then when it comes to the packaging material, quarter on quarter price development, so Q3 into Q4. So there was, especially in the area of container board, some price reductions, as we can see from public sources, RISI and other sources, as well as also in karton board. So that weighted on our average prices for packaging materials in Q4 compared to Q3.

Got it. Thanks. And then maybe a second question on forestry and the increase that we saw in forest book values in the fourth quarter. And you did write about it in the report, but if you could just... expand a bit on that what drove the increase and also any updates if there are any on on the on the planned spin-off please yeah

Hey Linus. So the increase was primarily driven by the stronger Swedish Krona. So FX was the prime driver. Also kind of the underlying asset, there was some increase, but the 200 million or so increase we saw was mainly driven by FX. And then what comes to the spin, Progress being made every day, separation, a lot of activities there. So I would say on track and making good headwinds or good progress there.

That's great to hear.

Excellent. Thanks a lot, Jens. Thanks, Linus.

The next question comes from Ioannis Masboulas with Morgan Stanley. Please unmute your audio and ask your question.

Hello. Good morning. Can you hear me OK?

Yes, we hear you, Ioannis.

Excellent. Excellent. Thank you. So a few follow-ups from my side. This is the first one, going back to liquid paperboard. Across your entire order book, if we think about 26 versus 25, is it fair to assume a low single-digit improvement in pricing? And related to this, do you think you're gaining market share in either Europe or Asia? As that will explain some of your comments on volume trends versus some of your peers. Thank you.

Yeah, so in Liquidge packaging board, we have some slightly increased pricing for the majority of our customers. And when it comes to market shares, I don't want to comment on those.

Okay, thank you. And maybe one more on Oulu. So I appreciate you wouldn't like to provide a full year guidance on potential ramp up costs, but If we look at Q4, you account for about 31 million euro impact. And for Q1, you're talking somewhere between 15 to 30 million euro impact. So at the high end, it feels like there is no much improvement or a reduction in the ramp-up costs. Could you talk about some of the challenges there? And could you also clarify whether although it was EBITDA break-even because that's something you mentioned in the past, but I didn't see that in today's release in terms of the Q4 run rate. Thank you.

Yeah, so first all was EBTA breakeven when running full during month of October. Then towards the end of Q4, we had some planned shutdowns and also some curtailments. But as we had guided before, we reached EBTA breakeven in the month of October during, let's say, normal full run month. And when it comes to the first quarter, I mean, we are continuing the ramp up as planned with excellent customer feedback and quality achievements. And of course, I mean, we need also to take into consideration that the carton board prices, as we know from public sources, are somewhat down. So with a certain impact also here, plus then, of course, we have to consider also other things you know affecting then the waiting on the on the on the all profitability during the first quarter.

Thanks very much thank you.

Our next question comes from Detlef Winkelmann at JP Morgan. You may now unmute your audio turn your video on and ask your question.

Morning, everyone. Just a quick one from me just on your pulp wood costs. Obviously, we've seen them come down quite drastically in the last couple quarters. I'm hearing some conflicting views. I just wanted to hear your thoughts on whether this is a supply chain change or a demand-only driven price decrease. We're hearing from a handful of people, independent experts, that maybe supply and wood being harvested is actually up. And at the same time, I'm hearing the exact opposite from someone else. So just would love some clarity there if you can.

Well, yeah. Do you want to take it, Niklas? Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's multiple factors, but to put it simply, the view is more demand. So demand has been... has been lower. Some of the industry players, for instance, in Finland have been curtailing production during the second latter part of the year.

Cool. Thank you. That's all from me. Thank you very much.

Our next question comes from Cole Harthorn with Jefferies. You may now unmute your audio and ask your question.

Good morning, thanks for taking my question. Just like a follow up on the wood cost side of things, you provide some helpful guidance for a 10% move in wood cost for the whole of Stora, which includes your sawn timber business, as well as obviously your Latin American operations. Is there a guidance just so that we can think about the sensitivities for a 10% move just in the Nordic wood prices, just to understand the quantum? That's the first question. The second is thinking about the liquid packaging board of Beihai and given there's a number of capacity that's ramped up in China, I'd like any commentary that you can provide about profitability of Beihai and China operations.

Thank you. Thank you, Carl. First of all, our Beihai operation is doing very well. Also, from a profitability perspective, it is One of the world's, if not even the world's most efficient board, consumer board production line, according to board machinery manufacturers statistics. So doing very well indeed. Excellent quality. I mean, we are competing in the high end industry. highest quality liquid packaging board segment and consumer board segments in China, where we have an opportunity also to differentiate. And then when it comes to the wood costs, as you can see in our report, a 10% wood cost decrease would have a 238 million euro positive impact on annual EBIT. We haven't broken down that specifically for the Nordics, but the clear majority of this is the Nordics. So not all of it, but the clear majority.

And then maybe just as a follow-up, Niklas, your CapEx numbers come in nicely at you know, 550 million. It is lower year on year. It's the first time, you know, you're getting towards depreciation or below. I just like to think about how you're thinking about CapEx. And then, Hans, one for you on the 500 to 700 million savings. Is there any color that you can give on, you know, what might be contributed in 2026? Because there are a number of moving parts this year. We do have lower prices. You've got potential positives from the Olu drag being less negative and you've got the positives from potential wood costs, but the bucket that's missing is, you know, your own internal actions and efficiencies, any, any quantum of that 500 to 700 million that might be achieved in 2026 would be helpful. Thank you.

Yeah. So on the, on the CapEx, um, uh, We've done a fair amount of work on CapEx in the latter part of last year, and we discussed some of it in the CMB as well. And of course, one part of it is, as we call it, the end of the heavy investment phase, which is primarily Oulu. But we've actually gone beyond that. We've looked a lot at where do we get returns, what type of returns, investments are better, which ones are worse, and so on and so on. A lot of categorization of our different assets, where do we invest, where do we not invest. So what you see now in the 550 guidance is kind of a summary, the outcome of this work. And in the end, it's all about discipline and returns. And I'm sure we'll learn more during this year and then we see how it moves beyond this year also. But the theme is clearly now let's be disciplined and let's ensure good returns on those investments we make. And when it comes to our own profit improvement actions in the CMD, we explained that during 2024 and then the three first quarters of 2025, We have achieved 850 million euros of annual P&L impact, and we are now at roughly 900 million euros after the fourth quarter. And we also said that there is more to come. Currently, we have in the pipeline 500 to 700 million euros of projects and initiatives for P&L projects. impact standpoint. And as we said in the CMB, two to four years, two years if we also get some market tailwind. So in order to achieve the about 10% EBIT margin levels, so two years if we get some market tailwind and four years if we have continuous market headwinds. So that's about the guidance I can give. Of course, the more you do this cost savings and streamlining, the harder it also gets. That's also good to remember. And just to give you some additional color, because it's a good team, nice team. So For instance, what we are looking at for the moment is fixed cost. How do we work efficiently within Stora Enso? And then also procurement is another area we are looking into as we speak. And there is potential, so it's quite positive and good. Thank you.

Our next question comes from Andres Castanos Mola with Berenberg. You may now unmute your audio, turn your video on and ask your question.

Hello, good morning. Thank you for taking my question. It would be a follow-up on CapEx, please. How much of that 550 million euro is allocated to forest and how would our run rate of an ex-forest company look like for maintenance CapEx? Thank you very much.

Now I'm actually looking at Jutta here across the table. How much of that is forest? I can't remember by heart actually.

It's not that much biological assets to some extent, but their also maturity would be actually Latin American capex. So it's not that much that goes into the forest.

So very little into the forest company as such. All right, that's helpful, thank you.

There are no further questions. I shall now hand back to Hans Stralsund and CFO Niklas Rosling for closing remarks.

Thank you very much all for taking time and for your interest. As you can see, we are moving forward with speed and determination. to improve our financial performance and to strengthen and build a better, more sustainable and more valuable Stora Enso. During last year we have sharpened our strategic focus, we have defined our strategic priorities, of leading in customer value, putting the customers in the center through innovation, sustainability, and service and quality. We are looking also to grow faster than the market, over 4% per annum. And we have a track record within renewable packaging of growing above 5% during the last 10 years. And we are well-invested. to materialize this growth. We are expanding our margins to the well above 10% EBIT margins through our own actions, regardless of market circumstances. And then last but not least, we are generating cash through disciplined capital allocation. Thank you very much for your interest. We are moving forward with speed and determination. Thank you. Bye-bye.