Sweco AB (publ)

Good morning and welcome to this presentation of Sweco's Q4 and year-end report for 2024. With us to take us through the result is Sweco's president and CEO Åsa Bergman and CFO Olof Stolnacke. After their presentation, we will open up for questions. But now, please, Åsa.

Welcome everyone to Sweco's Q4 presentation. Before we present the fourth quarter and full year, let me give you a quick overview of Sweco. Sweco is Europe's leading architecture and engineering consultancy with operations in eight geographical business areas across 15 markets in Europe. We are a well-diversified business operating across three different segments with a good balance of private and public clients. The foundation for Sweco's long-term success is our mix of competencies spread across 22,000 experts, our focus on organic and acquired growth, as well as our efficient and decentralized operational model. With a strong financial track record and financial position, we are focused on continuing our growth journey. With this introduction, let me start the presentation by summarizing 2024. 2024 was a successful year for Sweco, marked by many positive milestone achievements. Our net sales surpassed the milestone of 30 billion SEK, EBITDA exceeded 3 billion SEK, and we reported a full-year double-digit margin for the first time in over a decade. Despite the challenging macroeconomic climate, we continue to grow, improve, and deliver on a strategy. Net sales increased to 30.7 billion SEK with a solid organic growth rate of 5% and acquisition adding 3%. EBITDA increased by more than 20%. or more than half a billion SEK, and the full-year EBITDA margin amounted to 10%. We are also pleased that all business areas improved EBITDA. The Board of Directors proposes a dividend distribution of 3.30 per share. All in all, 2024 was a successful year for Sweco. Looking at Sweco's financial performance from a long-term perspective, you can see that our journey of profitable growth continues. From 2014 to 2024, we have managed to increase net sales with on average 13% annually and EBITDA with 14%. The solid long-term trend shows the strength of our strategy and operational model. During 2024, we have further strengthened our position as Europe's leading architecture and engineering consultancy, and we have entered 2025 with a positive momentum. Moving then from the year to the result and performance of the fourth quarter. We end the year with a strong Q4, continued growth and improved margins. Net sales increased by 5%, of which 4% was organic growth. Our EBITDA increased by 44%, or 288 million SEC adjusted for negative calendar effect. The Q4 EBITDA margin increased to 11.1%. And the positive development in this quarter is driven by further effects from our efficiency measures, as well as higher average fees and improved billing ratio. Let us dive into more details looking into the operational highlights. In this quarter, seven out of eight business areas reported EBITDA improvements and six out of eight reported positive organic growth. We continue to successfully navigate in the market and the organic growth rate was on a solid level in the quarter. We secured new exciting projects, further strengthening our order backlog. And as I mentioned, we continue to see positive effects from the efficiency measures taken during the year. For example, Sweco UK continued to progress according to plan and turned a significant loss in Q4 last year into a profit in this quarter. Finland is another example where performance improvement measures and cost savings have been carried out, which has resulted in Finland delivering a double-digit margin in a challenging market. I'm very pleased to see that we are able to increase our billing ratio with 1.3 percentage points and reduce operating costs. Our internal efficiency measures are having effect and as can be seen from the strong margin across six of our business areas. Let us now take a look at the market development. The overall demand for Sweco services remained good. We saw good to strong demand within energy, infrastructure, water, environment and public buildings, as well as parts of industry and security and defense. Demand in residential and commercial real estate segments remained weak. And with that, I will hand over to Olof to walk you through the numbers. Please, Olof.

Thank you, Åsa, and good morning, everyone. Starting again with a summary of the quarter. We had net sales of 8.1 billion with 4% calendar-adjusted organic growth, 1% from M&A and no FX impact in the quarter. EBITDA, 901 million SEC, excluding the negative calendar effect, we are 288 million or 44% up and margin is at 11.1%. Leverage is down significantly from last year at 0.4%. Looking at net sales, we see organic growth in six out of eight BAs. UK has the strongest growth, but that is driven by a weak Q4 last year with significant negative project adjustments. Denmark and the Netherlands show very strong growth, and we see solid growth also in Sweden and Norway, while Germany and Central Europe is a bit lower this quarter. Finland and Belgium has negative growth, the Finnish market continues to be challenging and in Belgium we see some headwind in the industry segment. The growth drivers overall continue to be average fees increasing and also lower project adjustments and a higher billing ratio. On the EBITDA side, we see a 44% increase. We are up against a relatively weak Q4 last year, but this is still a very strong EBITDA quarter. Germany and Central Europe, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Belgium and the Netherlands deliver double-digit margins. UK delivers 6% in another profitable quarter, and Norway improves the margin despite continued headwind in the private buildings market. Looking then at the EBITDA bridge by business area. Overall, as for sales, its higher average fees and project adjustments continue to be a positive driver. And that's together with a higher billing ratio. And we saw higher personnel expenses having a negative impact. Looking at the BAs, seven out of eight deliver increased EBITDA. UK delivered the largest improvement, but again, this was primarily due to significant negative one-offs in Q4 last year. Finland, the improvement there is also partly due to restructuring costs last year, but it's mainly the result of successful efficiency improvements. Sweden, Germany and Central Europe, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands all deliver solid improvements. Belgium is slightly negative but maintains a high margin and would have been positive excluding restructuring costs, which are mainly related to realizing synergies from M&A. The calendar effect from three less working hours corresponded to a negative 44 million in net sales and EBITDA impact. Looking then at financial position, net debt at 1.5 billion is significantly down versus Q4 last year, driven by an improved working capital position and lower M&A outflows. We are pleased with a full year operating cash flow improving from 2.5 to 4.1 billion. Leverage is at 0.4, also significantly down versus last year and well below our target. We are financially very strong with available liquid assets of 5.3 billion at the end of the year. The dividend, as Åsa said, 3.30 per share based on the financial position we have. This is a dividend growth of 12% and a 57% payout ratio, which is in line with historical levels and also in line with our policy. And finally on the numbers, a reminder of the calendar effects for 2025. The big thing as usual is Easter, which once again moves between quarters, and this year falls in Q2. And the significant impact in this, as those who follow us know, is in Norway. And the total for the year is back to negative, with one working day less in total. And one hour now corresponds to roughly 14 million SEC in effect on net sales and EBITDA. And with that, back to you Åsa.

Thank you, Olof. On January 9th, we announced our first acquisition of 2025. Siptic Consulting is a leading specialist in geotechnical and environmental design and consulting. With increased demand for geotechnical expertise and environmental planning, especially in Finland, we are very happy to add 50 experts to our operations and thereby significantly growing our offering within this field. The acquisition has been completed and SIPTI is consolidated into Sweco as of January. The projects won this quarter reflect our broad and diverse expertise across several growth segments. In Belgium, we have been awarded a project in soil and groundwater remediation at Brussels Airport. The efforts focus on addressing PFAS pollution through sustainable methods to prevent its spread. Scheduled to be completed in June 2025, this pilot project aims to serve as a model for similar airport contamination issues. In the renewable energy sector, we secured a major national framework agreement with Statkraft, Norway's state-owned enterprise for renewable energy production and Europe's largest producer of renewable energy. In Germany, we have been chosen to contribute to the expansion and refurbishment of the Marta Maria Hospital in Nuremberg. This project includes the merger of two hospitals to create a 470-bed facility and enhance regional healthcare services. In Finland, we have been selected for an alliance providing design and engineering services for Helsinki's light rail expansion. This project is part of the Helsinki strategy to achieve a carbon neutral 15-minute city. Now I will conclude by presenting our key priorities and focus areas going forward. To conclude, 2024 was a successful year for Sweco, marked by the milestones that I mentioned in the beginning. During the year, we have demonstrated the strength of our strategy and operational model, and we have implemented measures that will continue to improve our profitability over time. We have moved into 2025 with a strong position and a positive momentum. Going forward, we aim for continuous improvement by executing on a strategy. That means that we will continue to focus on efficiency and improving the billing ratio. It also means that we will remain focused on capturing business opportunities by further strengthening our market position as a leading advisor within the green transition. In addition, we tap into attractive growth segments. And... We will accelerate our M&A agenda across all markets. All in all, Sweco remains well positioned to continue the journey of profitable growth. And we are committed to capturing growth opportunities while driving efficiency improvements. I want to conclude by thanking colleagues, clients, investors and partners for a successful year. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Åsa and Olof. And now we will open up for questions. You can ask them through the phone line or directly in the chat function. But please, Sharon, if you can give us more detailed instructions.

one and one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced to withdraw your question please press star one and one again if you wish to ask a question via the webcast please type it into the box and click submit we will now go to your first phone question one moment please and your first question comes from the line of dan johansen from seb please go ahead

Good morning, Olof. Thanks for taking my questions. Yeah, really impressive work with the margin this quarter. Good morning, Dan. Good morning. Maybe I'll start a bit on demand, perhaps. You're the backup strength in here, but your market outlook is basically the same as in the last couple of quarters. Question is, do you see any movement across the segment or some of the weaker segments, such as residential? the commercial real estate improving from low levels, or is the strengthening order backlog more a result of you taking market share here during the quarter? Thank you.

I would say the easy answer is the latter. We see, as I said, good demand in energy, infrastructure, water, sustainability and environmental-related services, parts of the industry and defence and security, healthcare, data centres, good demand. But still, the market when it comes to residential

commercial real estate and and part the more traditional industry is on on the weak side okay very clear and perhaps an organic growth uh you're getting some support from higher average fees here and how much of the four percent is that and how do you think about price increases now into this year will it be more difficult to push through further price increases with the lower inflation levels, or can you still keep up prices here into this year? Thank you.

Yeah, I think you can. Roughly 3% of the 4% comes from price increases. We continue to see that we cover the salary increases if you look at the full year, so we're quite happy with that.

And then a comment on your last question. This is a focus area for us in our daily operations. So for us, it's about sticking to the ways of working and executing on our strategy, meaning making sure that we get paid for the right work and that we make sure that we also are selected when it comes to which projects and contracts we take on. Also making sure that we execute those projects and have good control over our project portfolio, because we also see in the quarter that we actually are handling our projects in a very good way, meaning that we are getting really paid for the work that we have done. So, I mean, there is many dimensions to this price increase, but the way we work is paying off. And for us, it's more about being consistent and continue to implement the way we work. And also what this quarter shows and the year shows is that we have been able to navigate the market in all our different business areas in a very good way. And that also plays a part linked to what I said before, how we are positioned and that we can kind of both grow, but also be selective in how we work with the projects that we take on.

Understood. And maybe one final question. On the dividend ratio, it's down slightly compared to last year, still in line with your target, but you could easily have paid out more given the balance sheet. Is the reason the M&A opportunities that you talk about that you might act on, perhaps even some large M&A as well in the pipeline, or how should we read into that given the straight to the balance sheet?

I think you should see it exactly as you say. It's a signal that we still believe that the biggest value creation we can make is from acquisition, and there are still a lot to do in the market in terms of consolidation.

Okay, thanks. Maybe one final nitty-gritty question for you as well, Olof. Restruction cost of 11 million here in the quarter, if I read it correctly. I think 8 million was Belgium. Where did the remaining free end up? Thank you.

3 million in Finland as well, some minor restructuring there as they continue to push efficiencies.

Perfect. That was all from my side. Thanks for taking my question.

Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Dan.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Daniel Joburg from Handelsbanken. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator, and good morning, Olof, and congrats to solid Q4 numbers.

Thank you, Daniel.

My first question would be a little bit, you mentioned the strengthening or the backlog. If you can give us a little bit more color on, you know, geography wise or book to bill or segment. And also in the same question, perhaps ask about, you mentioned healthcare and data center being truly strong in 24, I guess, 23 as well. Should we expect this driver to continue here in 2025, as figured by Microsoft and others?

Thanks. I mean, first of all, your first question, to give you some more flavor, I mean, this growth is a cross all our business areas and markets. And then on your latter question, Amina said there has been growth in our order backlog and we are winning good contracts in all segments. So I think, I mean, In all those areas that we talk about, we foresee that now we will execute on the order backlog that we have, so to say.

And to add to that, maybe also the order backlog is increasing not only absolutely, but also as percent of LTM net sales, which is, of course, always important to maintain growth.

That's good. May I ask you on the defense sector, you know, a lot of refurbishment and rebuild and etc. Do you see this as a vital part of the growth opportunities here in 2025-2026?

I mean, first of all, I think it's worth mentioning that, you know, the picture of us having one third in urban buildings, one third in the transport infrastructure sector and one third in water, energy and industry. So I think we should remind that we have like this broad portfolio of services into different sectors. We are talking about defense and security as a growth sector, which it is for us. But with that said, we have worked towards those sectors and with those clients historically as well. So yes, we see that the demand for services linked to those is good, but we cannot be more detailed than that linked to the kind of projects that we work with.

And my last question for me would be a little bit, obviously, you've done a great job lifting margins group-wide. That was in the details, et cetera. And again, entering into 2025 here, the low hanging fruit is perhaps year over year still in UK, Finland. Can you comment a little bit on how much tougher it is to bring a margin up from 9 to 10 or from 8 to 9 versus from 10 to 11 or similar? Is it the same potential or is it much, much harder doing the latter?

I would say I have talked about, I would say all my years in this position about the Sverko model. So it's really about continue to implementing the way we work in all different dimension. I mean, a long term target is 12 percent. And I mean, a business area per business area, we have shown that it's doable and So it's not like really meant to link to which market we are talking about. So it's more about how we operate that market. But I mean, if you look at those figures on the business level, you can see that there is more potential to drive towards that goal. So, I mean, we have, we don't give any forecasts. We worked with our model, implementing the strategy, implementing the Sveco model and trying to be consistent in delivering according to that. And that has proven to be the best way to work. And of course, expanding the margin as we did 2024 is also showing that we kind of found the recipe for taking the next step. So we will continue that work.

Perfect. I will save some questions for the launch. Welcome and thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Raymond K from Nordea. Please go ahead.

Hello, good morning. A couple of questions for me. First one, billing ratio, very impressive. You commented that Sweden, Belgium, UK and Germany saw improvements. Are these the countries that are leading in terms of billing ratio improvement or were they lagging and hence had room for improvement unlike other segments that you did not emphasize billing ratio? Any color or flavor you could provide here to understand how far you are along in the efficiency improvement would be helpful.

No, I mean, what we said that the capital markets day in 2023 was that 75% is sort of shouldn't be impossible given that we've been there quite recently. We are at 74.6% in the fourth quarter, so not quite there. And we are at 73.9%. And I would say there are no leaders and laggers in this, but we are sort of working in all the business areas And you will always see some fluctuations between quarters. So we are working with the same kind of measures in all areas, but obviously some markets more impacted by the market environment, such as Finland and the UK.

Got it. And could you sort of also help us better understand a bit what it is you have done to make this happen, to drive up the utilization in this way? Because if it was easy, I'm sure it would have been done a long time ago.

I guess that's definitely correct. I think it's the things we have talked about in previous quarters. It's about sort of reducing capacity in areas where we have lower billing ratio. It's about reviewing overhead, number of managers, team sizes, etc. So it's the same basic day-to-day improvements that we are continuing. So sort of no other secret recipe than that.

Got it. And a question about sick leave absence. Did you find that the sick leave absence in Q4 was, by your standards, unusual, either low or high in any direction?

No, I would say it was quite normal. It was probably slightly down versus last year. But I think as everyone in all companies and everyone in society, we are seeing slightly higher levels than before the pandemic. But nothing unusual with the quarter count.

Got it. And just one final one regarding Germany and the impressive margins you have there. Would you say that they are because Germany sort of structurally operates at a higher level or is it because of the exposure that you have there that gives them these high margins and they're fairly similar to the same exposure in other countries or divisions, if you get my question?

We don't see it as sort of a structural difference. It's more the way we are operating it in the market. So I would say a very strong quarter and a good year because we have sort of done fairly well with the turnaround. We continue to look at that, but so far so good in Germany, I would say.

Great, thank you so much. I'll get back in line.

Thank you.

Thank you, Raymond.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Johan Longvist Sunden from Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Good morning also, Olof. Thank you for taking my question. Good morning, Johan. First one, it's on fee levels. You continue to talk about that you're benefiting from hiking your fees. What should you say? Are you outperforming peers in your work with working with fees or are you gaining market share just because you're raising your fees to a lesser extent?

I mean, for us, it's really to keep the eye on our ball, so to say, and make sure that we expand our prices in line with what we have put in as targets and making sure that we can create the value that I talked about before. But I would also say that we are gaining market shares in this market. And as I said before, I think that we have done a really good job navigating the market in the different business areas.

And I think to add to that, it's really important for us not to gain market share by decreasing fees or taking projects at the wrong margins. That's been key for us in the last few years and really very long term as well.

But you shouldn't say that your fee change year over year has been significantly different compared to the market?

It's difficult for us to say. We don't have the transparency on everyone, but there is no, as I can see it, no significant difference.

Perfect. Then if we look at the billing ratio and the progress there, If we go back, say, 12 months ago and you reflect on your development, should you say that you are ahead of your plan or has there been any kind of hiccups that made you disappointed to some extent? Just interested to hear your reflections on the journey during the year.

I mean, we started already in 2023 to reduce resources in certain segments due to the market situation and handling that. This is a way of working and efficiency measures that we are distributing business area by business area depending on their position, their maturity level and where they have their weaknesses efficiency wise. We try to kind of mirror best practices between the different business areas to make sure that we kind of learn from each other. So it's a mix of different areas and activities and those are more related to the business area status and how the order backlog and how the market also looks like at the moment. So it's hard to give you kind of clear answer because we are working really hard in the different business areas, step by step. So it's also hard in the very beginning to see how fast this will play out. But we have been focused and we will continue to work with focus in those different areas. and we are satisfied with the outcome so far.

Okay, fair enough. Referring to your comments about M&A, just a little bit curious to hear your few thoughts about how easy it is for you to find targets with margins on par with yourself.

First of all, if I look at 2024 and we have made three acquisitions, that is not, of course, something that we are satisfied with. If you look at 3% acquired growth rate and then you look at our historical numbers when it comes to acquired growth rates. With that said, if you look at our industry, the transaction volumes was lower last year, benchmark-wise. And that is, of course, I've said it before, it takes two to tango. So for us, it's easy to find companies to have dialogues with. And we have pipes in all our business areas. And we are working intensively to... scan and create relationships on all markets but from that to that it we can make it happen is another step and I mean we work the same way and we will really try to accelerate this year to make it happen so yeah. Anything to add from your side?

No, I think to add on the margin side, I mean, historically, we have acquired companies with lower margins. So acquisitions are initially margin dilutive. I think that is given our margins, that is still the case in the market. So we are not specifically looking for companies with any margins, but companies that make good sense from a value creation and from a business perspective.

And how long time do you, I guess it's case by case basis, but ballpark, how long time does it usually take for you to implement this work model and see that the margin of the target performs in line with the rest of the business area?

It depends on why they are performing on lower level. So in some cases we can integrate and pull out the synergies quickly. If it's more structural things, if it has to do with price levels, contracts and the ways of working within the organization, it takes a longer time.

Perfect. Just two deep, nitty-gritty questions on numbers. First, in this quarter, you highlighted, Olof, in your presentation that there was some positive product adjustment that impacted. Can you please, ballpark, give some guidance of the net impact? I guess there were some negatives in Denmark, some positives in Finland.

I think if you compare, I mean, this year is sort of no big, the big change versus last year is that we had big negative project adjustments in the UK. So, I mean, UK did minus 70 million in Q4 last year. So I think it's fair to assume that 40 to 50 million of that was project adjustments in the UK.

Yes, and so this in Q4-24 was basically no effect.

It was more a normal year, maybe slightly on the positive side, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Perfect. I used to find on the calendar, you had a nice slide in your deck highlighting the calendar. Just curious about Q3. There was a little bit of a strange pattern during 2024 with the kind of timing of vacation. Should we expect the kind of theoretical impact in 2023 to appear or is the vacation period faced in a better sense for you?

To be fair, I don't have top of mind sort of if this falls in July or not. So I would have to come back to you on that one. But I mean, ingoing assumption should be that it's the full effect. But I don't know how much falls in July. So I would have to come back on that.

Perfect. Thanks a lot. And congratulations to a very strong quarter. I get back in line.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Tom Ginchard from Pareto Securities. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Just a question on the sort of seasonal distribution of price tags here into 2025. Quite even a distributor or any tilt toward the first half of the year?

Well, I mean, price increases normally are slightly tilted towards the first part of the year because you have more indexations coming in in the first quarter, I would say. So slightly tilted to the first half and to the first quarter. Thanks.

And just on sustainability of margins here in Germany and Finland, should we expect a decline, especially in Finland here, given the Reduction in force that you commented on or the temporary leave.

I mean, the temporary layoffs we have been using throughout the year between 80 and 120 FTEs in Finland. So it's at 90 at the year end. So that's something we've been using all through the year and will continue to use to at least to some extent in 2025 as well. Finland has done excellent when it comes to the efficiency improvements. So while not giving any forecast for 2025, I think they will continue to work on their efficiency and continue to work on maintaining the margins.

All right, perfect. Thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Eva Björklid from D&B. Please go ahead.

Hello. And congratulations to the strong results this morning. Two questions for me, please. Firstly, on the billing ratio improvement, do you see that trend being sustainable? How should we think about the magnitude of improvement year over year in 2025? It sounds like maybe it could be reasonable to assume around a 75%. Is that the correct way to think about it?

Well, unfortunately, as usual, we have to say that we don't give any forecasts. I mean, what we are saying both in the presentation and the report is that we'll continue to work on the billing ratio and we expect further improvements gradually over time, but we don't give any forecasts.

And then my second question, can you give more specific examples of the efficiency improvements that you're looking to do in 2025?

No, I think it will be, as I said on the previous question, it will continue to be the same thing. It's adjusting capacity where we have low billing ratio in those units or where we have low demand, which is obviously the driver. It will be to continue to review our management layers, our team sizes and our overhead resources to make sure that we have the right size on all of those. But it will be continued day to day. sort of in the line efficiency measures.

Thank you.

That was all for me.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one and one on your telephone. If you wish to ask a question via the webcast, please type it into the box and click submit. We will now take the next phone question. One moment, please. And your next question comes from the line of Adela Dashian from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Just one follow-up from me on the comments regarding FTE developments going into 2025, especially in the Nordic markets, Finland, Sweden. Let's say that order momentum continues to pick up in the right direction. How do you plan to balance out the resource allocation within those markets, and maybe also some comments on UK and Germany, given that there's been some mixed demand, which has been driving down the FT growth in some of these areas. Thanks.

Yeah, I think to start with, if you look at what has happened in 2024, we are excluding M&A. We are relatively flat when it comes to FTE growth, but that obviously is driven partly by that we have reduced by around 500 FTEs. So it has meant that we have sort of... braked and accelerated at the same time. And I think that is what we will continue to see going into 2025 in areas with high demand, such as energy. We will continue to recruit and even recruit sort of at quite a high level and in some other areas we will scale down. So we don't really see any difference. I think it's likely that we will move over to more net growth, of course, in the year with less reductions.

Makes sense. And then maybe finally on recruitment, are you seeing any difficulties getting your hands on well-equipped experts, or is there maybe an improvement within that?

We have a very attractive brand and the more market share we gain, the more strong our employee brand becomes, meaning that we have both the attractiveness and also the way of working when we recruit and onboard new colleagues. So we are satisfied with that. So no, it's not a problem for us. So what we work really hard on is to make sure that all experts and colleagues in Sweco want to stay. And gladly we can see also that personal turnaround have moved in the right direction. linked to last year and the last quarters because that is really something that is important for us to make sure that we have the personal turnover on decent level in this market. But for sure it's really hard work and it's like part of our model to make sure that each and every one that starts working for Sweco would like to stay a little bit longer and that is really linked to how we maneuver the daily operations and what kind of contracts we win and making sure that we have really good leadership in all units across Sveko.

Would you say that you're gaining market share in the UK as well when you say across all business units or geographic regions?

No, I would not say that we are gaining market share in the UK. And I think maybe to add to Åsa's comment, I mean, we still have the sort of the long-term question of availability of engineers for everything that needs to be done within EU. So we still have that sort of long-term issue.

For the whole of Europe and for all companies, so to say. There is a scarcity of engineers linked to the green transition overall. Of course. Great. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. There are currently no further questions. I will hand the call back to the room.

Thank you for all your comments and questions this morning. There are no more questions at this time. We'd like to thank you for joining us. I also would like to take the opportunity to inform and remind you of the Q1 report that we will publish on April 29th. And also on the same date, we will have our annual general meeting. So thank you again and have a very nice day.