Synsam AB (publ)

Welcome everyone to Synson Group's Q&A session as we release the interim report for the third quarter this morning. My name is Frida Leim and I'm Head of Investor Relations at Synson Group and will moderate this Q&A session today. With me in the studio I have our CFO Per Hedblom and our COO Jimmy Engström who will answer the questions. Those of you watching this live, you are welcome to ask your question in the YouTube chat online. We will try to answer as many questions as possible. We have also our analyst from Citi joining us. I would like to welcome in and hand over to Yang from Citi. Welcome, Yang.

Hey, thank you guys. Thanks Freda for the introduction. I guess just to start off our call today, maybe can you talk to what you are seeing in terms of consumer behaviors? And I know we ask this question every single quarter, but I have a sense that the macro picture seems to be a bigger focus in the release this quarter. Can you talk a little bit to that? And also please can you elaborate on how you're seeing the customer willingness in terms of trading up to more premium products that you've seen this quarter versus last quarter specifically. Thanks.

Yeah, but what we've seen in the third quarter is that it's still the consumer sentiment has been a bit cautious. But where we see now that the consumer is looking a bit more positively into the future with interest rates coming down and hopefully also the household income to improve. So that has sort of been the picture for the third quarter.

Yes. And consumers look at somewhat lower price points and so forth in the third quarter.

Okay, I see. And would you say that this behavior of consumers looking for lower ASP products has increased in Q3 compared to Q2?

Yeah, it has been a focus on that, and we have seen that it has been important to have strong campaigns in the market, also in the third quarter, to ensure that the customer finds the right offerings. And that has been a deliberate tactic from our side. We always, of course, follow the market, and so we have done also in the third quarter.

Thank you. And I noticed in the release that you called out negative sales mix in all countries except for Denmark. So I was wondering if there is anything else that contribute to this negative mix rather in addition to consumers trading down and what is happening in Denmark such that the sales mix was actually a positive contribution in the quarter, unlike the other countries.

Yeah, I mean, we start with the mix effects. We have a different kind of mix effects. One is sort of in the trading down pattern. If you select lower priced lenses, so that the lens frame combination, in that combination, the lens has a lower portion. That is a negative mix effect. Otherwise, we refer to, I mean, on the one hand, reasonably good sun season with somewhat lower gross margins, and also the online increase with somewhat lower gross margin. And, I mean, the mix effects aren't the largest element. It's, I mean, that we have consciously contributed to sales growth through well thought through campaigns is sort of the largest impact in the quarter.

Okay, I see. And maybe could you elaborate why it was the case in Denmark you actually saw positive mix rather than negative mix like in the other countries?

I mean, what I could say is that since Denmark has faced a situation due to credit regulation, with negative impact on lifestyle sales. Our colleagues in Denmark have acted in various ways to improve the cash sales, and that might have contributed to some extent, but it varies quarter by quarter.

OK, understood. And since we're on the topic of Denmark, are you seeing the effect of the credit legislation changes dissipating throughout the quarter? I saw on the release that you're saying that initiatives such as the Lifestyle Cash is having a positive effect. Can you maybe talk a little bit more about the consumer uptake of this offering? And also, when I look at the Denmark sales adjusted for calm because calm this quarter has turned negative, it appears to have slowed down somewhat with this last quarter. Is there anything that you could comment on that?

Well, I think when you compare sales, it's important to look at last year's quarter rather than sequentially. That goes for all segments, and that's quite important. So that's why when we talk about organic growth and growth and so forth in nominal sales as well, it's compared to third quarter last year. And there we see a positive development in Denmark. That goes without saying. The credit regulation is here to stay. Over time, we believe consumers in Denmark and our personnel will get used to it. but I would say it's a slow process. What we see now in the third quarter is the first quarter we've had since the credit regulation was implemented where we can compare apples will apples, so to say. Of course, Q3 last year was impacted by credit regulation as well. Up until Q2, we've compared to the situation before that regulation was introduced.

I see. And when you think of the lifestyle cash offering, is it relatively easy to get consumers on board? Did you have to spend extra time in the stores to explain how it works? Anything to the extent of, you know, how consumers taking it in?

Now, we see basically that the discussions with the consumers is very similar between the two offerings. So it's more a matter of choice. Which one would you prefer? And we have seen that the lifestyle cash offering in Denmark has been positively received by a lot of consumers. And that explains also why it has also grown.

Got it, got it. And then maybe let's talk to the subscription business. It's continued to grow quite well, but I have noticed that the churn rate has, you know, picking up for a few quarters now. you know what would be the implication of this and is there anything to read into the health of the consumers and then in addition to this how do you feel the subscription business um sort of um you know contribute to your businesses in the times of economic downturn

We see that the subscription business is continuing to grow. In a broader perspective, we have a stable churn, and we are confident that it moves marginally over quarters, but in line with our expectations. If we look between the markets for this quarter, we see that it's relatively stable for three markets, but it's more Denmark that it's coming up a little bit. And that is, of course, primarily due to the new consumer legislation. But as we see, the subscription offering now 683,000 customers, 817,000 subscribers in total. It's a lot of customers choosing this subscription and they are very satisfied overall. And of course we believe that this is a fantastic offering and strongly appreciated by our customers in all markets, all towns, all customer segments basically.

Okay, got it. Thank you. And then still on the top line topics, I also noticed in the press release that you seem to place more focus on the competitive optical retail market in the Nordics as compared to the previous releases. Could you maybe comment a little bit on this, whether you're seeing intensifying you know, competition or has it been roughly stable? How are you finding the effect of your marketing campaigns with regard to your market share as opposed to different markets?

There are several questions we try to answer. Okay, so we have seen an opportunity to take market shares in this tougher market environment and we have chosen to attract more customers. And we have increased market shares as well. Look specifically at Sweden, for example. That has had an impact on gross margin, but we are in a stronger position. So although there's a tough market situation out there in Q3, I would say, then we have taken market share and that has worked according to plan. So it has paid off our focus of the quarter growth wise. Do you want to add anything, Jimmy, to that?

No, I think it's exactly that picture. And of course, I mean, what we have seen in these weak economic times, that is, of course, also opening up opportunities. And that is one of the reasons, for example, why we have increased the pace when it comes to expansions and with new locations and great... great locations for establishment coming up to a larger extent. So we have seen also, of course, this as a period of opportunity.

Okay, thank you. And maybe before we go to the topic of new stores opening, could you confirm whether you're seeing intensifying competitive environments sequentially? Or has it been sort of a stable picture so far in 2024?

I would say that it's been a competitive situation, but what we look at here is the growth we have achieved by investing in the market, I would say. So we have taken market share thanks to our offerings, competition, I would say has been tough during the year and continue to be so.

Thank you. And now moving to the topic of stores opening. So nine months this year to date, you have opened 32 stores and you're still planning to do another 14 to 16. So that will definitely place you ahead of the implied run rate in your plan. And I noticed in the press release, you called out sort of the economic downturns as providing a good environment to acquire stores. So my question is whether this is a pull forward of store openings that you were already planning for the next two years? Or are we actually seeing maybe potential for higher store openings through to 2026 above the 90 stores that you talked about in the past?

It's a pull forward. I mean, our target remains the same, 90 for the period 2024-2026. So that means a lower number of store openings in 2025 and 2026.

I see. And given the current economic environment, you mentioned that there are more opportunities to open stores. Having said that, how are you seeing the returns on the stores that you have been opening so far this year, just given the impact on consumer demand? And also, how are you seeing the sort of profitability improvements across the stores that you have opened this year?

I would say that, I mean, the fact that we've also selected smaller cities as targets has helped us quite a lot actually to quickly reach profitability. So, I mean, that focus, since we communicated a few quarters ago, has continued and we get very high market share quite quickly and good loyalty from the customers actually in these small locations and better conditions overall. So it helps us to shorten payback and so forth. We don't see any real, we have a positive development of our new stores, I would say. That's also why we have selected to increase the number of stores this year, that we have good traction on them.

mind overall what is your store opening philosophies are you looking to broaden your geographic presence all over the different countries that you operate in or are you looking to focus in sort of you know more affluent areas higher density area how do you approach your store opening plans

No, I mean, we are of course seeing that, I mean, we are reflecting our consumer base and that is the entire market basically. And we see that our concept works very well, regardless if it's in the city center of Stockholm or in the rural areas of any country in Scandinavia. So when we are opening now stores, we are of course opening many of them in smaller cities in Sweden and Finland. but there are also selective locations for example in Stockholm or other large cities like Copenhagen where we see good opportunities. So we see that there are plenty of white space so to speak still ahead of us where we have room for further expansion.

And with the focus on sort of expanding presence in the smaller cities, when the economy is finally returned to normalised level, would that have any implications whatsoever in terms of the kind of product mix or the mix of premium products that you could sell in those stores? Do you see, for example, I guess what I'm trying to get is, do you see, you know, a higher school in a normal environment to more premium products in stores in bigger cities? And therefore, if you're opening more stores in smaller cities, that might have a more durable implications on your mix.

No, I would say, I mean, one part is, of course, the frame, another is the lens. And what we see is that the consumers typically appreciate a good quality lens and also some nice frames. But then when we have the subscription offering, it's increasing the affordability to buy more than one pair. So we see that all this works together. But of course, if it's a stronger economy with a higher household income, more people would probably choose to trade up a little bit. That could be expected.

Okay, makes sense. Thank you. And maybe moving on to the topic of Sinsam Eyewear, because that also came out in the press release, specifically in Sweden and Norway with the rollout. Could you give us sort of a broad overview of where Sinsam Eyewear is across different countries or what stage you are at? And what can we expect in terms of the impact on margins from this rollout in Sweden and Norway heading into the final quarter and also into 2025?

Yeah, exactly. The main focus for CSAM iView is Sweden and Norway. And the goal is, of course, to increase optician capacity. What we've seen to a certain proportion in Q3 is that we have certain costs for rolling this out. We have a dedicated team centrally, and we have training efforts and so forth, and license costs when this is implemented. and we still have some consultant costs which will be reduced over time but now we have a situation where we have double costs you might say for some period so that is temporary when this is rolled out we will get lower costs from the implementation because it's already implemented. All the license costs will remain. We will get lower costs due to fewer optician consultants and more own employees. So there will be, when we are rolled out, such a positive effect. I mean, We have talked about some magnitudes, but it will impact the margin to some extent. But the most important part is not the cost savings, although you will see them in the income statement when we rolled out. The most important part is the capacity increase, where we can accommodate more customers and get higher growth, since optician capacity will be higher thanks to this prosent technology. Want to add anything, Jimmy?

No, exactly. And I mean, that is, of course, the key reason for why we're doing this. And we see that via the Synsom iView project, the capacity are increasing quarter by quarter, which, of course, helps us to also grow and also improve our availability or accessibility as well, which we find is an important task.

Thanks for a very detailed explanation. Still on same-time eye view, my first follow-up question is whether the rollout has been completely on track. Was there any hurdle that you might have not forecasted at the beginning that you came across? And then the second follow-up question is how long do you expect this period of double cost going to last?

First question, well, it will be some additional quarters. We do want to get this rolled out fairly quickly. So there will be some additional quarters, but we're not talking about years, but some additional quarters. And well, I mean, We have a plan, we follow that plan, but there is a lot of training effort and we need to ensure that it's sold out in a way that people buy into this as well. We can't force it. We educate our colleagues and get a positive reception, thanks to our measured rollout. But it will be rolled out. So no, I wouldn't say hurdles, that we have a careful approach when rolling it out, I would say.

Makes sense, I see. And would you be able to quantify perhaps the headwinds from this double cost in the quarter?

No, we haven't quantified it. I would say it's the cost of a central team plus a number of stores where we have training efforts, when training, optician assistance and so forth. It's an order of millions, but I wouldn't quantify it in detail now.

Okay, thank you. And since we're talking about EBITDA headwinds and tailwinds, maybe would you be able to rank which headwind has been the biggest in the quarter and which has been the smallest headwind in the quarter? I think in the press release, you called out a couple of things. So enhanced promotional activity, you call out the sales mix impact that we spoke to at the beginning of this call. You call out the rates of store openings and lastly the IVU rollout. So across these two headwinds, which one would you say has been the biggest?

Well, I would say that all items you mentioned are reasonably important. If I should point out any of these, it's, of course, that the gross margin effect, of course, impacts EBITDA margin. That goes without saying. And our focus on attracting more customers thanks to offerings, campaigns, is one important factor, I would say, for this. which has indeed delivered growth as well, we should remember. We've taken market share and 9.5% organic growth in the quarter. That's important to remember.

Would you be able to run through the current market shares that you guys are having across the different countries?

We wish we could. We are taking market share in Sweden, we know that, although the data is still being processed, regarding how many percentage points. We definitely take market share in Finland with that high growth rate. We do not have the exact market size figures for Finland at this stage. So we will get an update to you in the coming quarters on our current position in Finland by the way as well. But overall, we take market shares, overall in the group, we do.

Thank you, that's also helpful. And maybe just going on to the topic of promotion activities, since you also brought it up a couple of times, could you give us some examples of what are you actually doing on the ground, in what countries, and what kind of reception have you got from the consumers in those countries?

Yeah, I mean, this market is campaign driven, and I mean, it has always been that, basically. That's a part of the market dynamic. So how we work with the campaigns is, of course, that we are always following the current pace, and then we are choosing different tactical strategies. tactical options and I mean that could be one example could be for example that we have 50% on the frame there could be promotional activities in the lifestyle subscription sometimes for example with a package deal or something like that but this is something that we are working with continuously and that is part of sort of how this industry works and it's always been doing so basically.

Okay, understood. And maybe I just have one more question, actually. Is there anything that you would like to flag from this release in particular beyond the topics that we spoke to? So we spoke to the competitive dynamic, we spoke to the consumer behaviors, and then your campaign to help with sales growth. Is there anything else that we should be talking about that we haven't?

I mean, the cost program, I think we haven't touched upon really, have we? No, not yet. No, no. We want to mention that, I mean, we don't really have any, I mean, the forecast right now is that there will be a low inflation environment. But we also want to be prepared for any changes in the inflation environment. which might appear. So we are initiating a cost program now, the third actually, the third cost program in a few years' time, which will give effect to balance out any potential cost increases. A gross effect of 75 million SEC when it's totally implemented, most of which will actually be realized in 2025. And we want to mention that as well, because that's important for us.

Makes sense. And just to follow up on this, even though I know I said it was the last question, I noticed that the corporate line item in your EBITDA is once again positive. I think it was plus 11 million. You know, is there anything that you would like to call out and how should we think about this line going forward?

We don't want to call out any specific items in the quarter. It was positive, yes. It was positive last quarter as well. Not as positive this quarter as last quarter, but still positive. But I would say we... And this could vary quarter by quarter. But we do have some... certain positive items going forward i mean we our cost programs effect central costs as well to some extent also we we have talked about our production and innovation facility which was negative when we started up and also 23 we we have a goal of becoming positive We are working very hard to achieve that goal. So we see in December whether we will succeed or not, but it's really moving in the right direction. So that has of course been a burden financially in the beginning, but our plan is of course that it will be positive over time. So there are certain factors speaking in favor of the central items. I don't want to exaggerate here, but I do need to mention these as well.

Makes sense. Well, thank you very much. That's all my questions for today. I'm passing it back to Frida.

Thank you, Yang. Great. We have also a question in the chat. So, hearing units, do they have a different maturity path and margin level? And what's the first impression of these centers?

Yeah, they have a slightly different structure there. We are currently continuing with the pilot and we now have 11 units and we opened up a new unit here in the recent quarter. And what we see is that the optician business, when we open up in a small A small town in Sweden, for example, that will ramp up very quickly and become profitable just after a couple of months. It takes a little bit longer time regarding, of course, the hearing business. But we are exploring with the operating model and we are continuously evaluating that business as well.

Thank you. Great. So it's time to wrap up. But before we do so, anything else you would like to add before we end the call?

I think, I mean, we have had a strong organic growth of 9.5% in the third quarter. We see a positive consumer growth development and we have invested in a new establishment, the head of plan, and also, of course, with the Synsam iView program, increasing our capacity for for the future and then what we can see is that we are delivering on all our financial targets year to date and that our market position is stronger than ever actually so we we look very positively to the future thank you big thank you to jimmy and per thank you for all of you watching this live thank you and see you next next time