TF Bank AB (publ)

Thank you very much.

Välkomna allesammans. Vi stänger nu året 2024 med ett speciellt kvartal som har en rapport som avviker från det normala genom att vi har i den försäljningen av 80,1% av det tidigare helägda dotterbolaget Rediem Capital. Med det följer en positiv engångseffekt på resultatet på 103 miljoner och en positiv kapitaleffekt på 345 miljoner. And for the sake of the transaction, the board will propose an extraordinary share of SEK 5 per share. The underlying value of the quarter was marked by a controlled growth level, where we managed to secure good margins, and overall we see a stable credit quality. Summarizing the quarter's activities, we get a good cost control, a final operational result, adjusted for these extraordinary results in relation to the transaction, of 188 million kronor, which is 36% better than the corresponding period the previous year. Above all, it is in the segment of credit cards and e-commerce that drives the EPS growth at the concern level. I am glad that the revenues are growing faster than the costs and the K-I number continues to improve. It shows that the business model scales well. Under kvartalet så har vi sett en fortsatt stabilisering av kreditkvaliteten. Men det man måste ha i åtanke när man analyserar just kreditförlustraden är att TF Bank är under stark förändring i flera år, både i form av affärs- och geografisk mix. Sen har vi ett makro i Tyskland som arbetar emot vår underliggande förbättring av kreditkvaliteten i den marknaden. Men nu är vi igenom ett december som har många röda dagar i slutet av månaden, som avbryter det normala betalningsmönstret, och också januari som är hushållens svåraste månad. Kan vi vända sidan. Här är det visar vi tillväxt i låneboken. Exklusive förändring i den volym som ingick i avyttringen av Rediem Capital. Och summerar man på det sättet så får vi vår underliggande organiska tillväxt i lokala valutor på 6%, ger och ger var en 17%. Kreditkort, TFBanks tillväxtmotor, växte med 8% under kvartalet och 48% ger och ger. E-commerce växte med 8% under kvartalet i lokala valutor, men minskade ger och ger med 7%. Minskningen ska ses i ljuset av att verksamheterna i Polen och Baltikum är i run-off och det sista kvartalets ökning är ett normalt säsongsmässigt mönster där det sista kvartalet på året är tillväxtmässigt starkt. Consumer lending grew with 2% in the quarter in local currency and 4% year-on-year. If we look at market to market, we can start with Germany as the geographical core in the growing part of the bank's credit card business. We have seen a record-strong demand for TF's credit card and we expect a strong volume growth in the coming quarter. Germany is now more than a third of the bank's loan book. In the German market, during the year, we have launched Avarda's loan offer, initially to Nordic traders. In addition to giving an entrance to the German market, we are also a source of strength for our sales in the Nordic countries, when Germany is an attractive market for Nordic traders. The credit card business in Norway continues to grow well. IA Varda i Norge har vi nu första i januari tecknat ett avtal med Brandstad Group. Det ger en stark grund för vår norska verksamhet att bli partner med en sån stark handelsplattform. I övrigt i Norden så är det fokus på att upprätthålla lönsamheten och kreditkvaliteten i konsumtionslåneaffären. Vi har fortsatt medvetet hållit nere volymerna i konsumtionslånen i Norden för att säkerställa goda marginaler. The same focus of profitability as in the Nordic countries applies to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. In all three Baltic countries, the credit quality is stable and we are working to optimize the portfolio to maintain the strong results. In Denmark, we have now reached a point where we feel more secure with our loan. We are secure with the credit quality and our ability to find the right customer at the right cost. Det har tagit ett par år, vilket är normalt, och vi känner nu att vi är redo för nästa fas när vi skalar verksamheten i lite snabbare takt. Som sagt tidigare har vi redan etablerat kreditkort i Spanien och Italien, och det är början på en resa för att lära oss dessa marknader som är stora och intressanta ur ett längre perspektiv. Nu sitter vi segment för segment och vi börjar med credit cards. Låneportföljen i segmentet överstiger nu 8 miljarder och den underliggande verksamheten i segmenten växer med 48% jämfört med samma period föregående år. Vi fortsätter att växa i form av antal nyutgivna kort. Summerar vi året så växte vi i Tyskland med 183 000 utgivna kort vilket är en ökning med 31% jämfört med föregående år. Vi ser också ett förbättrat KI-tal i segmentet, vilket visar på att affären skalar väl. I just det här fallet, när det växer så mycket, så är just slutsatsen om skalbarhet väldigt värdefull. Och under det andra halvåret har vi som sagt också lanserat produkten i Spanien och Italien. Nu vänder vi sidan. Inom segmentet e-commerce ser vi nu effekten av vår starka pipeline i nyförsäljningen, som vi har pratat om tidigare i kvartal. Vi har under kvartalet, som vi ligger nu, teckt ett avtal med flera stora handlare, och i slutet på förra kvartalet, Now, as I said, we have signed an agreement with Brandstad Group, which is Norway's leading e-commerce company in its segment. Through these new businesses, a good growth will be secured in the coming years. We estimate a credit volume of 1.9 billion when they are fully built. We know that trade has had a tough year, and the negative growth is also an effect of the fact that Baltikum paused new businesses during 2024, and then earlier the business in Poland is in run-off. It contributes to the negative growth in the segment. With lower growth, however, we get full growth in terms of profitability, and profitability is therefore very strong, despite the fact that trade has had a tough period. And as I said, we have launched Avarda's credit offer in the German market, and we direct ourselves initially towards Nordic traders. Then we turn to the side. In the consumer lending segment, we have deliberately lowered the growth rate with a focus on defending margins. As I presented earlier, we are restricted to monitor the credit quality, and that means that we still have strong profitability in the segment. We also see a general stabilization or even improvement in the credit quality in the segment, and that applies to all markets. We have ended the quarter by testing the Swedish market again, but it is still too early to draw any conclusions about how that test will turn out. Now I'll hand it over to Mikael for the next presentation. Great!

Thank you very much. Let's turn the page and first look at our revenue. We can see that they rose to 657 million under the fourth quarter, which is 20% higher than the corresponding quarter of 2023. And the main driving force behind the increase is continued growth for loan portfolios within the credit card segment, but also a higher revenue margin within e-commerce solutions has had a positive effect. If we look at our credit losses, they went up to 186 million under the fourth quarter, which is 20% higher than Q4 2023. And like the previous quarter, the company's credit loss level is affected by a mix effect, since our growing segment Credit Cash has a higher income margin and a higher credit loss level than the rest of the segment. Jag vill också påpeka precis som Joakim var inne på lite att eftersom vi nu avyttrade 1,5 miljarder i förfallande lån den 20 december så ökar både intäktsmarginalen och kreditförlustnivån något i Q4 på grund av att balansen i beräkningens nämnare är högre. Detta påverkar ju dock inte den riskjusterade marginalen som vi ser är stabil jämfört med föregående kvartal och till och med har en förbättring jämfört med Q4 2023. And with that, we can move on to the next page. And here we can look further at the bank's moving costs, and we can see that they have increased by 11% to 245 million kronor in the fourth quarter. The company's QE figures in Q4 are 3% lower than the corresponding quarter 2023, which shows share shares in the business model. If we compare to the third quarter, it is important to remember that the semester period always involves lower costs for, for example, staff and consultants in Q3. But I would also like to mention that during the fourth quarter, the costs of the company are also charged with costs that are related to Rediem's operations, which were deducted from the bank on December 20. As you can see in the diagram, the GDP for the credit card segment has dropped to 32 percent. Det senaste kvartalet, den positiva trenden beror framförallt på skavfördelen i affärsmodellen, men jag ska också säga att en del av förbättringen beror något på den lägre direkta marknadsföringskostnaden som vi hade under detta kvartal. If we look at our second segment, e-commerce solution, we can see that the KU rate rose to 58% in Q4. And here it is that the business model for e-commerce solution means that the KU rate is higher than for other segments. But it is compensated quite strongly by the fact that we also have a higher risk-adjusted margin. If we look at our third segment, consumer lending, we see that the KU rate rose to 33% in the quarter, which is somewhat higher than in Q4 2023. And with that, we can move on to the next page. And here we can look further at the bank's turnover. Just as Joakim mentioned, it increased by 36% to 188 million under the fourth quarter. And the driving force behind the profit growth of G&G is mainly the rising turnover for the growth of the loan portfolio, as we can see in the credit cards segment, but also the powerful improved turnover result for e-commerce, which also has a positive effect. Också som Joakim nämnde i vår resultaträkning för Q4 har vi även en positiv effekt om 103 miljoner som är relaterad till aktieöverlåtelsen med Alektum och Erik Selin. Den här posten påverkar då inte rörelseresultatet vilket innebär att vårt underliggande vinsttillväxt i kvartalet är 36% year on year. Exclusive to the positive input effect in the result calculation, the bank's adjusted return on equity capital increased to 22.3 percent during the fourth quarter and the profit per share increased to 6.23 kronor. The profitability has been strong, I would like to claim, and during the second half of the year, and we are in line with our financial profitability measure. If we go on to the next page. Then we look at the segment and we start with credit cards and look at the movement results that increased to 75 million kronor in Q4, which is 66% higher than the corresponding quarter 2023. Again, higher revenues from the growing loan portfolio and share shares, which gives a lower K-retail, contributes to the segment's drop in the loan portfolio has increased to 2.8% in the quarter. And as we mentioned earlier, credit cards were launched in Spain in Q2 2023, and under Q3 2023, credit cards were launched in Italy. But as always, when TF Bank launches new products, we will be careful and grow controlled. If we scroll to the next page and look at the e-commerce solutions segment, the turnover result went up to 33 million in the fourth quarter, which is 91% higher than the corresponding period in 2023. Här är det intäktsmarginalen som har förbättrats kraftigt det senaste året och den positiva trenden även fortsatt i Q4. Segmentets avkastning på lånförföljning uppgifter i starka 3,8 procent i Q4. Under det fjärde kvartalet har segmentets kreditförluster minskat något och kreditförlustnivån uppgifter i 2,7 procentenheter. Här ska man säga att merparten av förbättringen skulle jag vilja hänvisa är relaterat till att vi har infört kreditrestriktioner i Norden. If we move on, we look at the consumer lending segment. Here we see a turnover result of 80 million kronor in Q4, which is 5% higher than the corresponding quarter of 2023. If we compare the result to Q3 2024, it is important to remember that Q3, which is always affected by positive seasonal effects, as we also mentioned earlier, Lånportföljen och den riskjusterade marginalen har varit stabil under det senaste året och segmentets avkastning på lånportfölj uppgick till 2,6 procentimeter i Q4. Om vi bläddrar vidare och tittar lite på bankens finansiering och likviditet så ser vi att inlåningsbalansen i Tyskland uppgår till 16,8 miljarder vid utgången av kvartalet, vilket är 79 procent av koncernens totala inlåning. And to increase the geographical diversification in a cost-effective way, we launched some loan products in the Netherlands at the end of 2023. And there we now have a loan balance of 2.8 billion. I would also like to mention that at the beginning of the quarter, the share of the fixed interest rate account rose to 70%. And the relatively high share of the fixed interest rate account, you can see in the light of the fact that we previously built up an NPL portfolio, which we, from a risk-risk perspective, have matched with loans with longer running times. Tynja Likviditetsreserv uppgick till 19% av inlåningsbalansen vid utgången på kvalet och merparten av likviditetsreserverna är som tidigare placerade i statsskuldsvecklar med en återstående löptid upp till 6 månader. Jag vill också nämna lite grann om LCR eller om NSFR som uppgick till 406% respektive 109 i Q4. Och som vi informerar också i samband med Q3-rapporten så tillämpade vi sedan tidigare Finansinspektionens tolkning för inlåning via inlåningsförmedlare. Så kom vi i slutet av september förra året. Och att vår NSFR ändå har minskat något jämfört med tre kvartalet beror på att vi har tagit affärsmässiga beslut för att optimera finansieringskostnader och minimera då det negativa arbitrage. If we move on and look at our capital relations, these have increased significantly in Q4, in light of the fact that we exceeded 80.1% of the shares in Dotterbladet 3DM Capital. The positive capital effect went up to 345 million in Q4, but from this amount we have withdrawn 107.5 million in the capital base, which is related to the extra division that the board proposed for the year 2025. And as we communicated in the press conference on September 2nd, it also includes the shareholder agreement with Electrum Eriksson, including more transactions. So in the next step, it is up to the bank to terminate its original content in Rediam to Electrum in exchange for a minority owner in Electrum of less than 10% as we previously communicated. If we look at the ratio figures, we can see that the primary capital relation is increased to 13.3, the primary capital relation to 14.7 and the total capital relation to 16.7. We therefore have a significant distance to the regulatory capital count on all three levels. With that, I will leave it back to you, Joakim.

Thank you. När vi nu ser framåt så fortsätter omvandlingen av banken. Tesbank är idag mer av en europeisk kreditkorts- och betalningsplattform, mycket mindre av en nordisk konsumtionslåninstitut. Under 2025 så förbereder vi oss nu för ett antal nya partnerskap med stora handlare. Inom kreditkortsverksamheten har vi satt en ambitiös plan när det gäller nya kortkunder. Det ska ses i perspektiv att vi per årsskiftet hade 360 000 aktiva kort i segmentet, vilket var en ökning med 50 % sedan året innan. Under kvartalet har vi ingått ett avtal om försäljning av drygt 80% av aktierna i Rediem Capital. Det innebär att det tar minst tre år innan något signifikant backstop-avdrag från kapitalbasen ska behöva ske. Nu följer vi Rediem Capital som minoritetsägare och bolaget förbereder sig för nästa steg i transaktionen där våra 20% i Rediem ska växlas mot 10% i Alektum. Vi passerade lånevalut på 20 miljarder under året, vilket var en gräns i våra nuvarande finansiella mål. Mot bakgrund av att vi väntar på en pelare tvåvägledning från Finansinstitutionen så presenteras inga nya mål här och nu, utan vi har för avsikt att komma tillbaka till den här frågan under första halvåret. Efter att ha lanserat kreditkort i Spanien och Italien och Avarda i Tyskland så går vi in i en period där vi bygger kompetens om förhållandena i nya lokala marknader. And in Denmark, where we have been for about two years, we now feel increased control, which gives us confidence that we can now start scaling the business at a reasonable pace. And this approach puts a finger on how we constantly strengthen the geographical profile of the bank. Then we move on to Q&A.

Thank you so much for the presentation. And as you mentioned, we go into Q&A here. And if you have called in and want to ask a question, you press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to mute your microphone. Den första frågeställaren här är Jens Hallén från Carnegie. Varsågod, du har ordet.

Tack så mycket. Hoppas jag har lyckats anmuta och allt sånt där. Första frågan. Michael, du nämnde ju att det fanns lite kostnader här i Q4 för Räddiga. Kan du specificera lite grann hur mycket det var? Är det en miljon eller tio miljoner eller tjugo miljoner? Hur ska vi tänka?

Yes, that I can take. I can go through three rows that have an impact on Rediem. We start with the one you asked about, the costs. Then you can say that 10 million in Q4 is completely dedicated to Rediem, which means that they disappeared more or less on December 20th. So you can have that with you. And then there are also interest rates on the interest rate line that go up to 30 million. That's both interest rates and also paid NPL interest rates. But then we also have interest rates at 30 million, so the net is actually zero. But you can think about that when you brush in your estimates forward, that those two are affected.

Excellent, thank you very much for that. Then one more little short question. The supply network to the K8 business became about 4 million positive here in Q4. It's an improvement compared to what we've seen before. It's a little bit like when you start to multiply everything by 4. How should we think? Is this something we should extrapolate now into 2025? Is it a change that has taken place fundamentally in the business?

No, I wouldn't really want to claim that, because this is a bit volatile as well, so to brush in four all the way, I would have wanted that, but I don't think that will be the case. It's still a bit volatile, and then I think we'll get a netto that is positive all the way, but don't brush in four million every quarter, because that won't be right. It's a bit of a fluctuation in terms of the season as well.

But if I may continue a bit there, I think it will be a positive figure for the whole year. It will be a big improvement compared to 2024. Yes, we believe in it. Excellent. A more specific question about e-commerce solutions. You mentioned that you have got some new merchants. It's usually cost first, income later. One, is that true? And two, is it a remarkable cost? Is it something we should have with us when we try to put our estimates here for 2025?

Yes, that's how the model itself is within that segment. It's based on that, that you build volume first, and then you come up with costs, and then a credit volume is built, and then the income comes afterwards. If you look at the segment during the previous year, when we had a negative growth on the whole, then we get a very strong profitability in that segment. Now we are going through a period where we will probably increase the growth and get positive growth. The general market pattern should also be a little more positive than it was before. As a whole, we are now entering a period where we will grow more and the profitability will go down. All in all, you can expect us to take costs upfront, and the revenues will come over time. And depending on how strong the growth is, you have to balance out of that. So it's reasonable to expect that profitability in that segment will go down during a period when growth comes.

Perfect. One last question, it's also a bit more technical. With the transaction with Rediam, are there any credit losses related to the transaction that are in your reported credit losses or are they completely separate?

The short answer is yes, but I still want to develop it so that you can understand it. With what I said, Rediem should go with a loss, and that's not true. It's also a bit technical here. When we calculate our ECL models, we have to use the original loan rate for discounting. And Rediem, as such, of course uses its discount rate as a discount. And there you have a discrepancy, which means that you get more income than we do. But since they have stayed in the company, it's our numbers that matter.

And of course, when you do a transaction like this, when you clean up everything you have in a certain number of markets, on the margin you find some here and there that you have to clean up. But it's nothing that affects it. But there is a certain effect of a little cleaning. But it's quite little.

Thank you. I forgot, I have one last follow-up question. I'm sorry for all my questions. But in the future, do you have a plan that when your loan is up to 90 days, it will be a natural transfer or sale of the loan, or will it be more of an ad hoc solution?

We act as two completely separate companies on business terms. And then there are parts in the SPA that make us sit together for a while. But usually you can expect that given that the NPL market doesn't pick up, we will build NPL volumes again. That's what you can expect. Then we will act actively to keep the MPL volumes in check. But there is no industrial collaboration in that way.

So it will be somewhere between your old clean balance sheet with basically zero, to what you might want to do with building a little bit and then selling it.

Absolut. Sen vet man inte vad marknaden tar vägen. Men vi kommer att agera affärsmässigt. Det förväntar jag mig också att RedM Capital kommer att göra. Tack så jättemycket. Det var alla mina frågor.

Tack så mycket för frågorna där. Då går vi vidare och ger ordet till Emil Jonsson från DNB. Varsågod.

God morgon. Tack så mycket. I will start with a question on the credit card segment. You noted that the loss of credit in kronor was up 20% compared to Q3. Can you explain what this is due to?

Yes, absolutely. Underlying is of course a growing balance, but that does not explain the whole thing. Vi har en effekt av två saker. Dels så har vi ett underliggande makro i Tyskland som jobbar emot oss. Och när jag menar jobbar emot oss så är det så att vi, om man tittar på våra nya generationer av emitterade kreditkurser, har de bättre kreditkvalitet än gamla. Vilket är helt naturligt när man etablerar sig inne i marknaden. Så vi har en underliggande trend att kreditförlustnivåerna i Tyskland ska minska. Men mot oss här och nu så jobbar makrot om. Och sen har vi ju speciellt under det fjärde kvartalet med att... that the number of red days will be a lot in the end, which also has a certain impact. So there are three explanations. Volume growth, and then the macro that goes towards us, and then the December effect.

How do you see the dynamics on the credit card rates now? Do you still see underlying interest rates coming down more

than what the loan companies do. Now they are in parity. Mikael, can you develop that?

No, but absolutely. We have a fairly slow elephant in that sense, and we have a lot of fixed income. Then we just have to think, Emil, when we calculate the interest rate in relation to interest-bearing debt, there is a rediem there, and then you can actually think, if you calculate the ratio, that we go up in funding, but that is not the case, but if I remove the rediem, we are quite stable in our funding cost. So we go down successively, but it does not go very fast, because we have a fairly slow book on the funding side, but everything else is the same, so we go down successively.

Och när det gäller räntekänsligheten på vår lånevolym så är det ju olika marknad för marknad, produkt för produkt. Och det är också olika generationer av lån också. Så det är inte lätt att ge ett enkelt svar på det. Men generellt så kan man ju säga att efter ett tag när det börjar slå in sänkta fannekostnader då kommer det gå snabbare än vad vår utlåningsränta minskar. But given that we have so many fixed interest loans, it will take a while before we get to that point.

What has been your first impression of the credit card business in Spain and Italy so far?

As always when you enter a new market, you are hit by a norm of adverse selection. So it's nothing unique for these countries. But it's of course that... De lycksökare som finns i en marknad, de som söker sig till en. Det är därför vi också är så otroligt långsamma. Du kan kolla på kreditexponeringarna, hur mycket vi ligger i balans. Man kan se minskningen på helheten i Spanien, och så kan du se hur mycket vi har i Italien. Vi går extremt långsamt fram. Det är just för att vi måste tvätta av oss den här första bågen. Det kan ofta ta ett halvår, ett år innan det är klart.

I was also going to ask about the timing for the new financial goals. How far will Q1 or Q2 come? Is it completely dependent on when you get your P2G?

It feels a bit awkward to go out before you actually get it. To be on the safe side and pick up the ball right, it feels like we would like to have it and be able to take a discussion from it.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

Kanon, en kort uppföljningsfråga först från Emils fråga. Hur säkra är ni då att ni kommer få det här pillar 2 guidance innan juni 2025?

Jag kan aldrig vara säker, men jag menar, när inspektionen drar igång en process, då brukar de också vilja beklara. Utifrån det perspektivet känner vi oss ganska trygga med att det är ingen rocket science, utan... They have a way of working on this. This is what they do in the party and in the NUK. So I have all the expectations that they will be able to handle it in the near future.

The first quarter, perhaps. Okay, sounds good. You have previously not been overly enthusiastic about the Swedish consumer loan market, where you often bring up competition, which has been quite tough, and Det har led till låga riskjusterade marginaler. Men nu lyfter ni fram att ni börjar växa här med lite nyutlåning och börjar testa marknaden igen. Vad är det ni ser annorlunda just nu och kan ni utveckla det?

Man kan väl säga att vi är fortsatt inte överdrivet optimistiska runt den svenska marknaden. Det är hård konkurrens och vi har ju ett antal aktörer som är aggressiva i marknaden och har... En bra verksamhet. Vi ser också att vi har nya skatteregler som kommer in under året. Vi kommer från en period med väldigt tufft makro. Så utifrån det, här och nu, så står väl allting, alla stjärnor står fel i skin. Då är vi kanske precis då man ska testa och doppa tårna och se var marknaden befinner sig. Och att jobba utifrån det läget, för det kan nog inte bli värre än var vi befinner oss just nu. Vi har gjort det i jättelite volym och så det är mer för att känna var marknaden befinner sig. Man får betrakta Sverige som en ny marknad för oss när det gäller den här produkten. Så det handlar inte alls om att vi ska kasta oss in i det här. Men ur ett mer strukturellt perspektiv så kan man ju säga för vår nordiska verksamhet så är Sverige ett relativt ganska stort land. Vi ligger lågt i volym i Sverige om man jämför med Norge och Finland. So from that perspective, there might be potential in the Swedish market. But as you point out, we are not driven by being big in any market. We are driven solely by our profitability when we allocate capital. So it's about Sweden being able to prove itself in the competition in TF Bank. And then it's about having a profitability of well over 20% in order to be able to allocate capital to them. So it remains to be seen, but the answer to that will not come during the nearest quarter and perhaps not during the current year either.

Great, thank you. And then as a last question there will be a little summary also on a previous question regarding loan rates. Can you talk a little bit about how you see the competition in the different geographies and if you see that there is a market where the loan interest rates have dropped faster while it is lagging behind on another so that some market would be more attractive to you to fund you in the future.

Do you see any of those signs and anything you can share with us? In general, one can say that the large loan markets are quite professional. And a structure on the market that cares about which interest rates you have. Which means that if you compare, for example, Germany and Holland, they are at a fairly high level with each other. We have noticed that when we have entered a market like Ireland, for example, it is a completely different level. But then you can't get the same volume. So it's really about the advantage you can have in some markets. That is what is recognized by a number of large banks. som håller inlåningsräntorna medvetet låga. Då kan man få till en sån. En sån situation var under 2024 i Irland.

Jag kan bara lägga till det sista. Får du färsk data här? Man ser lite tydlig tecken i alla fall på att marknadsräntorna är på väg ner i Tyskland. Vi har gjort sänkningar här i dagarna. Där kan du få färsk data.

Okay. And do you see how competitors have possibly changed their loan rates to customers, or are they still there?

We don't see any. Now we are active in so many countries, and then you can say, if we think about products also for that part. When it comes to the credit card market, there is no tendency to lower interest rates. But when it comes to the consumer loan market in a number of countries, we see that the price levels are on the way down. And that is directly due to financing costs, but also an improved macro. And then, of course, it depends on what capacity the actors in the local market have to lend out. Så konsumtionsplanmarknaden generellt är lite mer räntekänslig än vad man är i kreditkortsmarknaden. Och detsamma gäller e-commerce också som är åt kreditkortshållet.

Jag förstår. Tack. Men då hade jag inga mer frågor i nuläget.

Tack så mycket. Då går vi vidare i ordet till Johanna Servenka från Finansvårds. Varsågod.

Kommer. God morgon. Hör ni mig?

Ja, vi hör dig.

Vi hör dig, Jana.

Toppen. Jag tänkte höra, vad heter det? Joakim, can you talk about the scale of the crisis in Germany? Can you do more to lower the costs?

Yes, absolutely. I can only say that we have a fairly large, by our standards, coal center on the border between Germany and Poland. Under 2023 and the beginning of 2024, our business grew a lot. We have doubled our business in the last two years. We don't grow much more in the number of employees. With the help of automation, AI and general process improvements, we manage to handle one new customer all the time without adding more staff. En grundkärna i hur skalfördelar kommer till i den marknaden. Det jag bedömer också, när vi växer på ytterligare, är att vi kommer behöva gå upp i personal hela tiden för att kultivera vår verksamhet, ha kapacitet och ha en bra servicenivå. Men där finns det stor potential, som vi märker av.

Thank you. I'm a bit curious about the PLR-2 guidance from the Financial Inspectorate. Can you give a short comment on your expectations regarding what they will give you and also what you have decided today, both regarding the paid risk-exponement amount and if it is correct that you have not decided anything further in the brutto-solidity guidance?

I'll say it right. We have an internal guide from the board that we have set up with 150 points. We have that all the time. So that's what we have. And I don't think there's any issue with bruttosolidity.

Mikael, what do you say? No, absolutely not bruttosolidity. But I'll answer your question. We have 1.1% in the report today, which is related to conservation risk and interest rate risk. And that is the PLA-2 requirement that FI will come up with. And then they will come up with a guidance. And we don't know the guidance. The PLA-2 requirement would be very strange if they came up with something else because we have calculated according to their models. So we have already taken advantage of it. It already exists with us and has always existed with us.

Men ni sa 2021 ändå att ni förväntade er ökade kapitalkrav genom en P2-vägledning. Stämmer den bilden fortfarande?

Vad vi sa 2021, jag kommer inte ihåg det, utan idag har vi ju en guidance i vårt finansiella mål som är 2,5% enheter över det regulatoriska kravet. Vad FI kommer med P2-guidance, det är ju det vi väntar och ser. So I don't want to speculate where it will end up. We will, as Joakim mentioned earlier, as soon as we get it, we will send it to the press. But on the other hand, I am quite convinced of the requirement that we have. You can distinguish between guidance and requirement. We already have that requirement today, and I am quite certain that it will end up where T-Bank actually has it today. Okay.

And then I'm a little curious about, just if you can reflect on the level of your NFSR. It has steadily decreased during the last few years. What does that have to do with, how should I interpret it? Is it related to these new requirements from the financial inspection?

No, not at all. It depends on how many years. We introduced this, we took this position in 2023. And as I also said on the call, why our NSFR is now at 109%, it has to do with business decisions and that we optimize financing costs and minimize the negative arbitrage today. So it was no news for us what the financial inspection came up with, because we have had that guidance all the time at TF Bank since Q1 2023.

Thank you very much. Can you talk about the risks on the German market when it comes to credit losses? What do you see there?

Is there an increased risk that you will see in Q2 increased credit losses? We have a trend with a strong growing book and we have had it for several years. Despite that, we have the underlying credit quality under control. When we look at different generations of loans, we see that the credit cards that we have gotten out into the market in recent years are of better quality than we had in previous years, which is completely normal when you step into the market and learn over time. We also see that we get a risk-adjusted margin in this business that looks good. Then there is Germany in a special macroeconomic situation. The German economy is in need of interest rates. Especially when you think about households. But at the same time, this has been quite stable over time. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. We have time for a question that has come in written. What similarities and differences do you see so far to credit cards in Germany compared to other European countries? Is the plan to start up Avarda in more European countries?

It has to go from business case to business case. What is special about Germany is the interest from our customers to establish us there. Så det är ju naturlig utveckling. Sen får man ju se vad framtiden har med sig. Och det handlar ju också om hur vår kundbas utvecklas över tid och vad det blir naturligt för oss att växa vidare. Men det är ju helt klart att en e-commerce affär är ju mer partnerdriven. Så man kan liksom inte på samma sätt bara... to establish their own market and search for customers, which you do when you have private customers as end customers, and you meet them directly via platforms and others. So there is a bit of a different logic in this business. Then you can see that our business is completely focused primarily on partnerships with major traders. With that orientation, you can imagine that we will get one or more customers over time who have a greater international presence. This also means that if we are successful in developing together with them, it is not entirely unlikely that we will build an e-commerce business in several countries.

Thank you very much. One last question here. How do you use your affiliate marketing and do you see it as a good way to attract customers?

Yes, it is one of our tools that we use. We work directly with customers with such marketing. We work with partners. We exist both digitally and physically together with partners. Vi arbetar med de redskap som ligger framför oss och det är hela tiden en bedömning hur vi ska agera i marknaden för att få lägsta kostnad för att akkurera nya kunder.

Tack så mycket. Det har kommit in en hel del frågor men vi hinner dessvärre inte ta upp alla här just nu. Så tack för alla som har ringt in och ställt frågor och med det sagt så vill jag lämna över till Joakim för lite avslutande ord här.

Jag vill tacka allesammans för uppmärksamheten och önska er en god dag och en härlig dag.