TF Bank AB (publ)

Hello and welcome to today's webcast with TF Bank. The WD Joakim Jansson, CFO Mikael Meermutel will present the first quarter for 2025. After the presentation, there will be a Q&A. If you call in and ask a question, press the star 9 to raise your hand and then the star 6 to activate the sound when you have received the word. It is also possible to ask questions in the form at the right. With that said, I leave the floor to you.

Good morning everyone. We are now closing the first quarter of 2025. It is a quarter that has been marked by a controlled growth level. We have managed to secure good margins. Overall, the bank sees a stable credit quality. Powerful currency movement in this quarter makes our growth best analyzed in local currency. In total, it has been 4%. Summing up the activities of the quarter, we get a good cost control, a final operational result of SEK 188 million. That is 27% better than the corresponding period the previous year. Above all, it is the credit card segment that drives the EPS growth at the concern level. What makes me happy is that the revenues grow faster than the costs. This means that the -e-level continues to improve, the business model scales well. During the quarter, we have seen a continued stabilization of credit quality. What you need to keep in mind when analyzing the credit is that we do not need to keep any extra capital beyond regulatory requirements. Against this background, and that earlier financial goals were achieved in good time during the autumn of 2024, we can now present new financial goals that set the tone for how we see the business years 2025-2027. We can start. Our new financial goal is to achieve a loan portfolio of SEK 35 billion, the latest under the second half of the year 2027. The previous goal that was passed last year was SEK 20 billion. At the same time, we will maintain a drop in the equity rate that well exceeds 20%. It is not different from the previous goal. In the same way as earlier, we also have a strong focus on the banking capital structure and the capital goal as a distribution policy that remains unchanged. From this, we can draw the conclusion that organic growth in combination with strong profitability is still the foundation stone in our ambition. We see that we scale the business well and plan for continued profitable growth. Can we start? Here we look at the growth in the loan book Segment for Segment in the local currency. If we first start with the whole, which was the quarter's organic growth of 4%, -on-year was 19%. The credit card TFBank's growth engine grew by 10% during the quarter and 47% -on-year. e-commerce solutions backed by 7% during the quarter, which is a normal pattern during the first quarter of the year, and decreased -on-year by 6%. The decrease should be seen as the businesses in Poland and Balticom are in runoff. Consumer lending grows by 3% during the quarter in the local currency and 6% -on-year. We can improve. In this picture, we take ourselves through market to market. We can start with Germany, which is the geographical core in the growing part of our credit card business. We have seen a strong demand for our credit cards during the quarter and we expect continued strong volume growth during the coming quarter. Germany is now more than a third of the bank's loan book. In the German market, we have, at the end of last year, launched the Avardas credit offer, which was introduced to Nordic traders. In addition to the fact that it gives an entry into the German market, we also see that it has a strength for our sales in the Nordic market, since Germany is an attractive market for Nordic traders. The credit card business and the e-commerce solutions continue to grow in Norway. In the Avardas in Norway, we have in January signed an agreement with Brandstahl Group. It is a strong foundation for our Norwegian business to become a partner with such a platform. In the north, the focus is on maintaining profitability and credit quality in the consumer loan business. We have continued to control the volumes of consumer loans in the north to ensure good margins. The same profitability focus as in the north is also for Estonia and Lettland and Tauben. In all three Baltic countries, the credit quality is stable, and we are working to optimize the portfolio to maintain the strong results. In Austria, we see that the credit card business is developing in a good way. It is of course a much smaller market than Germany. But the prerequisite to run a profitable business in Austria can even be even better than in Germany, when it is fully developed. In Denmark, which is one of our newest markets, we feel safe with the credit quality and the ability to find the right customer at reasonable costs. It has taken a few years, which is normal. We are now in the next phase and are scaling the business in an increasingly rapid pace. We have already established a credit card in Spain and Italy. It starts on a journey to learn from these markets. They are large markets, they are interesting from a longer perspective. Can we improve? We look at segment by segment and start with credit cards. The loan portfolio in the segment is close to 9 billion. The underlying business in the segment is growing by 47% compared to the same period last year. This is mainly due to the German and Austrian markets. We continue to grow in the form of a number of new credit cards. We now have 34,000 active credit cards in Germany, an increase of 46% compared to last year. We also see an improved K-level in the segment, which shows that the business is scaling well. In this case, when we grow so much, the end result is extra important to us. This is now reflected in the entire bank's K-level. Last year, we have also launched products in Spain and Italy, and we are now in five markets. Now it's turning to the side. Within the e-commerce segment, we now see the effect of our strong pipeline in the new sales, as I have described in the previous quarter. We have, at the end of last year and during this quarter, signed agreements with several major traders. At the beginning of the year, we signed an agreement with Brandstar Group, which is Norway's leading e-commerce in its segment. We also have an agreement with Bagan and Kocken. Through these new markets, which are two examples, a good growth is ensured during the coming year, and we estimate a annual transaction volume of 2.7 billion, which should be in relation to the quarter's transaction volume of 3.0 billion. The negative growth in the segment is also an effect of the fact that we in Baltic Compulsed new business in the beginning of last year and earlier in the same business in Poland in runoff. This obviously contributes to the negative growth in the segment and suggests that the trade has had a tough period. And as I said, we have launched Avardas offers in the German markets, which completes our Nordic agreement in a good way. In the Nordic, where we are now, a leading actor can be proud. In the consumer lending segment, we have had a controlled growth rate with a focus on defending margins. We see increased growth opportunities in the Danish market and the business goes from clear to clear. Generally improved credit quality compared to previous years, which means that we continue to have a strong profitability in the segment, which for us is business as usual. Now I leave it to Mikael for the presentation.

Thank you Joakim. If we look at our moving revenues, we can see that these rose to 668 million in the first quarter, which is 19% higher than the corresponding quarter in 2024. And here is the main driving force behind the increase in the early quarter growth in the loan portfolio in the credit cards segment. I would also like to mention that our revenues during Q1 have been negatively affected by the strengthening of the crown, since over 90% of our loan portfolio is outside Sweden. If we look further at our credit losses, they rose to 232 million during the first quarter, which is 23% higher than in Q1 in 2024. The credit loss level rose to .6% and is affected by a mixed effect since our growing credit card segment has a higher margin of income and a higher credit loss level than other segments. I would also like to point out that since we decreased it by about 1.5 billion in the last year's loan, the margin of income and the level of credit loss have increased because the balance in the counting number is lower than in the previous quarter. In addition, the strengthening of the crown has the same effect on the number of keys towards the end of Q1. But the effect is less in the extension between the risk adjusted margin, which we see is still stable compared to the previous quarter, and even has been improved compared to Q1 in 2024. We can change sides. If we look further at the bank's moving costs, we can see that they have increased by 11% to 249 million during the first quarter. The KU-difference in Q1 is 3% lower than in Q1 in 2024, which shows a scale increase in our business model, as Joakim mentioned earlier. As we can see in the diagram, the KU-difference in the credit card segment is 33% in the last quarter, despite the fact that we actually had a slightly higher direct market flow during this quarter. The positive trend mainly depends on the scale distribution of the business model and an increased automation of our processes. If we look at our second segment, e-commerce solutions, we had a KU-difference that increased to 61% in Q1. As I said earlier, business models for e-commerce solutions mean that KU-difference is higher than other segments, but it is also compensated by a higher risk-adjusted margin. If we look at our third segment, consumer lending, we see a KU-difference that increased by 31% in the last quarter, which is about in line with what we have seen in the previous quarter. We can zoom in on that. We look further at the bank's moving costs, and as Joakim mentioned, it increased by 27% to 188 million in the first quarter. The driving force behind the growth in the interest rate is above all the strong development within the credit cards segment. If we look at the quarter's adjusted profit per share, it increased to 6.56 SEK, compared to 5 SEK per share in the first quarter of 2024. This corresponds to a growth in interest rate of 30%. I would also like to mention that the profitability is strong during Q1, and the withdrawal of loans has been improved by 40 points to .8% compared to what we had in Q1 in 2024. After the increase in the KU-difference in Q1 and our withdrawal of 1.5 billion in the previous loan, we have at the same time significantly more capital in the bank, which means that the withdrawal of our own capital is in parity with Q1 in 2024, but as mentioned, the underlying profitability is actually improved. If we look at our segment, we can see that the credit cards segment's moving result increased to 80 million in Q1, which is 76% higher than the corresponding quarter last year. Higher income from the growing loan portfolio, a strong risk-adjusted margin and a scale advantage that gives a lower KU-difference to the whole segment's withdrawal of loans and increased to .9% in Q1. If we look at the corresponding figures in the previous year, the withdrawal was 2.2%. If we look at our second segment, e-commerce solutions, the moving result increased to 24 million in Q1, which is 3% higher than the corresponding quarter in 2024. The income margin has improved in the last year, while the credit loss level has fluctuated a bit, and we have also had negative LGD adjustments in our reservation model for the segment during Q1. If we look at the segment's withdrawal of loans and portfolios, the goal is .8% in Q1, which can be compared to .4% in Q1 in 2024. If we look at our last segment, consumer lending, we can see that the moving result increased to 84 million in Q1, which is 6% higher than the corresponding quarter last year. The risk adjusted margin and the KU-difference have been relatively stable in the last year, and the segment's withdrawal of loans has still increased to .9% in Q1. The credit loss level has been stable at 2.8%, but I would also like you to take note that this segment has been affected positively by LGD adjustments in our reservation models during this quarter. We can now move on to the banking, finance and liquidity. Here we see small changes compared to Q4. The loan balance in Germany has increased to 16.6 billion in Q1, which is 79% of the total loan. Our loan in the Netherlands continues to grow, and we now have a loan balance of 3.1 billion. Our current liquidity reserve has increased to 19% of the loan balance at the beginning of Q1, which is about the same level as we had in Q4. More parts of our liquidity reserve are placed on the state paper with a annual run time of up to 12 months, as well as on the overnight account at some larger Nordic banks. If we look at LCR and NSFR, we have increased it to 347, respectively 110% in Q1. NSFR is affected by the high share of fixed interest accounts, which is primarily generated through loan providers, and thus is charged with a lower weight when calculating stable financing. NSFR is a more slow-moving measure, and our ambition is to be at a slightly higher level. Perfect. Then we look at our capital relations. The bank's -three-percent ratio was raised. The -eight-percent ratio was raised. The total capital relation was raised to 17.7 per quarter. All capital relations have increased by about one percent in Q1, which is primarily related to the fact that the loan portfolio is unchanged in our reporting currency. This is due to the strengthening of the crown. In the quarter, we have, as Joakim mentioned, received a decision from the Finance Division regarding P2 management, and for the capital requirement, the management landed on 0% of the risk exposure rate. This is the same level that some of our competitors have also received. At the outset of Q1, our capital relations have a significant gap to the regulatory capital requirements on all three levels. I leave that to you, Joakim.

When we look forward, we will continue to drive the bank with a view to our new financial goals. The focus is Germany and Europe as our largest market. During the coming three periods, we will be focused on continuing to grow our credit card business around Europe with Germany and Austria as two markets that will contribute a lot to our financial goals. We have a lot to do in Germany and Austria, and also Norway, which is where we are established. We have now set an ambitious plan regarding new credit card customers. We have almost 400,000 active credit cards in the segment, and that is an increase of almost 50% from the year before. So that says something about the pace we have in the business. I think we look good in sales here and now, the business is doing well. When it comes to our new markets in Spain and Italy, you will take the time to get to know them. It is not those markets that will mainly contribute to this generation of financial goals, but it is a preparation for the future. During 2025, we are also now prepared to produce a number of new partnerships with large traders, which will further boost the growth of the bank in the e-commerce segment. We have also adapted the organization and are preparing for our construction loan business in our own company, TEF Nordic. This is all to keep the focus on this business, but now an increasingly large part of the banking business outside of Nordic and within credit card payments. At the end of last year, a deal was made about 80% of the shares in ReadyM Capital, which means that we have a very low share of non-performing loans in our balance. This also means that it will take at least three years before a significant backstop will occur from our capital base, which otherwise could risk slowing our growth. Without any weight on capital and with a two-way lead of zero, we are now ready to take the opportunity to deliver on our new financial goals. Of course, we have noted that we are in a changing environment with geopolitical tensions, potential trade issues. Currently, it is difficult to determine what extent this will affect our customers. It is the German market that is especially important to us, but there we see that the available income of households is increasing as inflation is expected to decline. There is a strong investment pressure in the German economy. Consumer confidence is still a bit weak, it is a brake of our growth right here and now. We continue to monitor the macro situation closely and are ready to take advantage of the opportunities that will arise in the future and also handle possible risks. With our new financial goals and the platform we have now changed, I am convinced that we can continue to deliver sustainable growth and high profitability despite the uncertainty in our environment. With that, we go to Q&A.

Thank you very much for the questions here. And just as you mentioned, we now move on to Q&A. The first questioner who has called in is Patrik Blatselius from ABG. Please, you have the floor.

Perfect, can you hear me?

Yes.

That's good. I had a little problem with the sound. Yes, my first question is related to the financial goals here. If you count backwards, it implies an increase of almost 20% per year towards the end of 2027. Currently, consumer lending and credit cards are approximately 40% of the book and e-commerce is approximately 10%. If we look forward to 2027, how do you expect the split of the loan book to look at that point?

What we should say about our way of operating business is that we follow the numbers quite closely. We invest our capital all the time where we expect the best profitability on our own capital. It's hard to say exactly what we think in that perspective. But if you look back, we see that the trends have been during the last period. We can see that consumer loans are growing by sub 10%, while credit card business is growing by about -50% per year. And of course, when the credit card business increases in size, the growth rate is reduced by a percent. If you want to do such an analysis, you have to follow the nominal figures instead over the years. We are careful to have a sustainable platform over time. So it's a little bit of a demonstration of how we see it. As I said, we are always ready to navigate, but it is clear that Germany as a market, relatively speaking, is a very large market. So the lion's share of this growth will come in Germany. It is impossible to say anything else.

Thank you. I will continue on the suggested path. If the total book is expected to grow by about 20%, can we still count on e-commerce and consumer loans to be around two figures per year? Or is it lower and that the majority should come from credit cards? I understand that it is not, given what you said earlier, nothing that is written in stone, but I understand that you have some kind of thought and idea behind the growth you have put out, you have financial goals.

Absolutely, that's right. As a demonstration, we are launching a number of new traders here in e-commerce. We see that the volume of transactions that comes into this business, only through the sales we have done in the last six months, corresponds to about a quarter of the volume of transactions. So that's a demonstration of how we see growth in that segment, that it should be only two figures. When it comes to consumer loans, it is always about the development of that market. Now we see that there has been quite a tough competition and marginal pressure in recent years. I think that there is a reason why that trend will change a little. For that reason, I actually count on a little stronger growth in consumer loans in the next three years than we have seen in the last three years. We have had very good competitors who have been part of the growth business, especially in the north in the last few years. But I think that we will see a marginal increase in the Nordic market in the future, and then it will be relatively more interesting for us to be active in. And as I said, we have our financial goals, we believe that we will be able to grow the business with the restriction of maintaining profitability well above 20%. So it is also relevant for our consumer loan business that it must be

there. I understand. And if you think about such a growth profile, how do you see your net net marginals developed in such an environment?

I think you can look at our development in general. This quarter is very clear when you see how the profitability of our loan access increases. And we are strengthening the bank as a whole as our access mix changes. And then we know that the marginals are higher in the credit card business in relation to, and also in terms of payments in terms of consumption. And in the course of the bank becoming more important in that direction, the marginals will also increase in total. More cost-effective of course, because the level of credit loss is a little higher in those segments. But in the end, we are trending towards an increase in the whole when we talk about the bottom line.

And in terms of Germany becoming an important market on the credit card, you will be a pretty big player on this market. Can you just talk a little about how you have experienced the competition develop over the past years and how you see ahead that it will develop forward?

Joakim will answer that question, but then you assume that Germany is the only market. You know TF Bank and it is also the case that we will look at new markets as well. Then you can answer the other question, Johan.

For TF Bank Germany is a big market, but for Germany TF Bank is not a big financial institution. We have incredible potential to continue to do exactly what we did last year in Germany a few more years. Of course, at a certain point we will reach a size where we will have to work with a mature credit card book. But we are far from there now. And that is also the light of what you should see in Spain and Italy as new markets. The idea is not that they will deliver volume during this coming period, but at the end of that period. But it is Germany that we have continued to contact here quite well for a few more years.

Yes, but I was thinking a little about how you might possibly rate your cards compared to competitors. There are other competitors out there who have very attractive profitability. You want to think that this should attract other banks within the space and that some may be more aggressive in price. And if you are a market price-setter or if you are in line or how that has developed.

No, we are in line. We are in line with the others in this segment. And if we are a little higher or lower, it is not the price that is our card. The interest rate is less important in this market. And when it comes to competitors, I can only state that there is no problem in borrowing money. Anyone can do that. The problem is to get them back. And that is what we prove that we can do in a very good way. From that perspective, we have a well-tested model. We know our customers very well. We have done a lot of quarter-finances. And there are always some new ones who try in the market. But you have to get the whole thing together in the business and also get the money. So from that perspective, even if it is a collection of new competitors in Germany, it will take a few years for them to learn in that market. Just as it will do for us to learn in Spain and Italy. You have to take two or three years before you can scale the business.

That sounds good. Thank you. Then that was no more questions from my side.

Thank you very much for the questions. Then we move on and give the floor to Jens Hallén from Carnegie.

Thank you very much. Just as you said, it is easy to borrow money. It is harder to make it profitable and so on. I will take that thought and talk a little more about financial goals. In the details that you have given, we can maybe count back a little longer on how it will come to 35 billion. But will it take investments? I don't know if you were talking about the -e-data a long time ago. But how do you see 25, 26, 27 on the investment phase, the pace? Will it take something to reach 35 billion? Or is it just that you bring out the growth rates you have today and then we come to 35

billion? What one can say is that we have already invested in the business today and have done so in recent years. We adapt our investment pace according to the conditions we have. We invest today in our technology to ensure that it is top notch. We also invest when we grow so much as we do. We invest in the first day's margins in our customers, in marketing and so on. If you look at the growth rate that we see in front of us, in the crown and ear, it is not dramatically different from what we already do. From that perspective, I look forward to having a course where we develop in the same way as we have done before, if nothing unexpected happens. It also means that we are getting more and more scale advantages in the business.

One more thing, Jens, if you could just be careful, you can look at the credit card. The -e-data is at 32 and the concern is at 37. Exactly.

I tried to understand, because you have also talked about new countries. I know that a few years ago when we looked at this, it was clear that it had a greater impact because you had a smaller scale. If I hear that correctly, if we look at what you have done, the investments you are doing today, do you believe that we can have a positive geos where you continue to grow the income faster than the cost of this volume development?

Yes, absolutely. There are essential scale advantages in this business. You have to be humble because from time to time you have to make investments in technology and other things. But we take it over time. I think we have done it historically, we will do it in the future in a good way. We try to drive the business so as not to disturb the development of delivering every quarter in the way we have done historically. It is our ambition to continue to be disciplined over the coming three years period in the same way that has been historically. Thank you.

I have one last question. How much do you want to answer it? Well over 20%. Is it 22%, 25% or 30%? How do you see it? I can say that the consensus is around -26% for 20-27%.

We are

well over.

You have put your finger on the question. Everything depends on how much we invest in the future. The more we grow in growth and invest in new markets, it is about how far you want to draw out this line and how fast you want it to go. We will continue to do the same thing we have done over the coming three years. We are putting our growth ambition and the conditions we have to generate profitability in our diverse markets. As you have noted, we have had positive growth in the German market and it is getting bigger and bigger and more important for us. This also means that we can invest more in the future, which gives growth. It is a balance sheet. Well about is that we will hold ourselves in the span of over 20% in how we see how we will invest in future growth.

Okay, that was all my questions today. Thank you very much.

Thank you for the questions. Then we go on to the word to Emil Jonsson from DNB. Thank

you very much. Good morning. A follow-up question on the growth goal. When that is achieved, can you reason about how you think that profitability, i.e. waste of your own capital, will be higher or lower than it is today? And what should be an important driver in one or the other direction? What

I can say is that we reach the growth goal at 35 days at the end of this period and then our board of directors says that now this will be a cash cow and we will close the growth tax and invest in new markets. Then the profitability will be much higher. But we have the intention that during this period of three years, tell us what we will do during the next three years. And in light of that, we will have valuable investments in the future. So everything depends on what credibility we can convince our board of directors to reinvest in future growth to create this platform for payments and credit solutions around Europe. It depends on how we invest, what the outcome will be on profitability. The board of directors now think that we have a very good outlook during the coming three years and that we will grow a lot. My ambition is that the board of directors will think the same way in three years. That now we will invest in the business, which will hopefully give us a renewed mandate to build new markets. That is my hope and that is what I am driven by.

Thank you. And these new e-commerce agreements that you signed during the quarter, is there any difference in underlying marginality and profitability compared to the other e-commerce agreements?

Mikael can maybe give us

an idea. What we have come to agree with is a profit sharing model, which means that it is quite nice to us from a P&L perspective. Otherwise, you have to invest first, you get the costs first and then the income later, but it is nicer. But initially, we will see the income a little later than we see the costs. Unfortunately, that works Emil. So hopefully it was a good answer.

In the context of building a volume, we build it up to full size. If it takes some dependence on the dealer and the transaction speed in the business, it takes between 6 and 18 months to build it up to full size.

If you count on it being built up to full run rates, you should expect that the 18 months are exactly the same as everything else.

We are very simple people, so we set the same demand for the transfer on all the businesses we have in the bank. It should compete and deliver on the transfer goals we have, otherwise it will be a goal itself. So from that perspective, we are not signing agreements for marketing purposes, but we are purely peccineer in everything we do.

I understand that it takes time to build a loan volume, because there must be transactions and so on, but when the agreement is in place, should one expect that the transaction volumes from day one are in the right place around these 2.7 billion? Or is there some kind of ramp-up there too?

If Nicky wanted to answer that.

I think Joakim mentioned it earlier, it takes one year to build up these volumes.

But the transaction volumes come directly, if it is done technically, I don't know, but the transaction volumes come from the beginning, but then you build a loan volume over time.

That's right.

But then you should know that if you sign an agreement with a dealer under Q4-Q1, then maybe they will launch -Q2-Q3 depending on which agreements they are going to sign and so on. So in that way you can't see the transaction volumes coming directly in a month, but it depends on which agreements they are going to sign and also which implementation periods are there. So it often varies from signing to implementation, everything from a quarter that has the fastest up to maybe three quarters, in which case it is correct too.

Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. You talked about that you are waiting to sign new agreements later this year. Have you waited to see that what is remaining this year is bigger or smaller than what you have already signed in Q1?

It's hard to say, but when you talk about who has expectations. I generally have a positive lag with Mikael and so on, and there are other companies that are much more positive than I am. So it should never be a problem for DNA in the body.

We hope that we can get back to Q2 with that Emil. There is a lot in the pipeline that looks very good, but we will pause it and get back to Q2 hopefully. Alright,

fair enough. One last question. The provision network in Credit Cards has been positive for the past few quarters. What drives that? Should one expect that it will return to normal, that there are a few million negative per quarter?

The answer to that is that it has been positive. I think it goes from 14.7 to 15.5. There are a few seasons and occasions depending on the day of the pension. But generally, we are also seeing a decline in the market financing trend, so our pension costs. It will take a while, since we have 67% of our portfolio in the cash-in account. It will take a while to come down, but generally, our pension costs should go down faster than we need to adjust to the customer. So we should get a positive pension over time. Then there can be different types of changes between quarters, but generally it should be like

that. The question was about the provision network. It has been positive for the past few quarters.

I thought you were talking about the pension network. We launched PPI here a few years ago, and it has a positive effect on that range. So you should see that it will be positive in the future. Maybe not so much in the future, but it will be positive. Sorry for misunderstanding your question.

Thank you very much. That was all the questions from me. Thank you very much.

Thank you for the questions. Let's take some questions from the audience. The share of fixed-term deposits has decreased by 3% -over-quarter to 67%. Have you reached the peak of fixed-deposit share?

You should see it in the light of the fact that we have a 1.5 billion NPL portfolio. We both work with supply and run times. The reason why we have a 67% share is because the share we matched our NPL portfolio with is still there. Over time it will probably go down a bit. I will not answer if we have reached the peak, because it can happen that there are other circumstances ahead. But we are probably on our way down. But it has to do with the NPL portfolio, which we have now.

Thank you very much. We will now move on to the last question. There has been a lot of talk in the media about rentals and the value of them. How has this affected the growth of Nordic actors? Do you see that the market for consumer loans will disappear?

No, we do not see that at all. What this means is that there will be a number of customers who will be without loans. Who will be excluded from the financial market. Which means that they will seek a context for borrowing money that is totally unregulated. Previously, there has been the possibility of having a consumer loan institute, but they are now also banned in Sweden. Which means that you can expect that there will be a market with black loans. This is what happens with the combination of rentals and that you ban a certain type of institute. From a policy perspective, there are different things that happen in combination. You may have to think about whether you should have both a rental loan and a consumer loan institute. It is important that if there is a need for borrowing, it is also good that there is access to it. From my perspective, I think that the more regulated the companies are, the better the consumer protection is. It is better than being completely excluded from the black market. You have to think about

that. Thank you.

Absolutely.

Thank you very much. Those were all the questions we had. I leave you with a closing word.

Thank you very much. We will close the quarter and move into a new quarter. We will continue to deliver as we have always done. We will follow in our surroundings, as all the others, with all the drama that happens from one day to the next. Our business is underlying, thank you and go as it should. We will take it one day at a time. Thank you.