TF Bank AB (publ)

Good morning and welcome to today's episode with TF Bank. We have with us CEO Joakim Jansson and CFO Mikael Mermuttel who will present their report for the third quarter of 2025. After the presentation is mentioned, I will open up for a Q&A. If you call in, please press star 9, raise your hand and star 6 to put on your microphone. It is also good to write written questions via the form. And with that, I would like to give the floor to you. Thank you very much.

We now close the third quarter of 2025. The quarter has been marked by a controlled growth. We have managed to further strengthen our margins. Growth in the local currency rose to a total of 6%. Summing up the activities of the quarter, we get an operating result of 231 million kronor, which is 21% better than the corresponding quarter previous year. And it is the credit card segment that drives our EPS growth at the company level. I am glad that the revenues are growing faster than the costs. And compared to how it looked one year ago, the GDP has continued to improve. This means that the business model scales well. Under kvartalet har vi sett en stabil kreditkvalitet, och det man måste ha i åtanke när man analyserar just den raden i vår resultaträkning är att vi är under stark förändring, både i form av affärs- och geografisk mix. Planen att ändra företagsnamn till Avarda Bank pågår enligt det pressmeddelande som omkallades i bolagsstämma som skickades ut igår. Nu vänder vi sida. Som jag har sagt i flera kvartal så är banken i en strategisk förändringsresa. Vi positionerar nu bolaget för fortsatt expansion. Som en del i detta ligger en ändring av bolagsnamn som förutsätter beslut av bolagsdämma samt relevanta myndighetstillstånd. Låt mig ta bakgrunden till förslaget. Sedan börsintroduktionen 2016 har banken utvecklats från en nordisk nischaktör till en europeisk kredit- och betalningsplattform i 14 länder. Today, we have an attractive positioning, with Germany as the most prominent example. As you know, and as our reports have shown in the last quarter, growth is driven today primarily by credit cards of our e-commerce segment. This means that the consumer loan business that TF Bank mainly went to the stock market with is a significantly lower share of the loan portfolio than at the time of introduction. Consumer loans in the Nordic countries now account for about 25% of the bank's loan portfolio, compared to about 70% at the time of introduction. Den här verksamheten kommer för övrigt under 25 att samlas i ett nytt dotterbolag, TF Bank Nordic. Kreditkorten och e-commerce utgör nu cirka 75% av den totala låneportföljen jämfört med cirka 30% vid börsintroduktionen. Bankens resa tydliggörs också genom att vi idag har över 3 miljoner användare eller en transaktionsvolym på 43 miljarder. which can be compared to a volume of 2.8 billion at the introduction and 300,000 customers. This change is dramatic. Avarda is now linked to our e-commerce offer. Avarda was founded in 2015, was born in the cloud and is a relatively new player in the market. But with its modern and scalable technology, Avarda is now one of the leading players in BNPL in the north. Avarda differs from the major competitors by having a defined white-label strategy. And it is now Avarda that we continue to build on for the company's overarching business, since the name reflects our digital solutions, our innovative way of working and our flexibility. It lays the foundation for our ambitions in our financial goals, and a continued strong profitable growth in the European market to create even more shareholder value. We can move on. Tillväxt här kvartal från kvartal. Så här tittar vi då på låneboken segment för segment i lokal valuta. På helheten är tillväxten 6%, ger och ger 20%. Kreditkort, vårt snabbväxande segment växte med 12% under kvartalet och ger och ger 41%. E-commerce increased by 1% under the quarter and year-on-year volume development was unchanged. Consumer loans grew by 1% under the quarter to local currency and 7% year-on-year. Now let's look at the side. If we look at market to market, we can start with Germany, which is the geographical core of the growing part of the bank's credit card business. We have seen a strong demand for the bank's credit card and we expect strong growth in the coming quarter. Germany is now over 40% of the bank's balance sheet. In the German market, we have launched our e-commerce offer at the end of last year, initially to Nordic traders. Earlier this year, we have also launched consumer loans. Of course, the German market also has a great potential in these product areas. But as always, when we launch new markets, we do it with caution and perseverance. The e-commerce solutions continue to grow in Norway. We see an improved result in both the retail business and the construction loans compared to the previous quarter. In the rest of the Nordic countries, the focus is to maintain profitability and credit quality in the construction loan business. The same profitability focus as in the Nordic countries applies to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. And in all three countries, the credit quality is stable. I Österrike ser vi att kreditkortsverksamheten utvecklas på ett bra sätt. Såklart en mindre marknad än den tyska, men förutsättningar att bedriva en väldigt bra lönsamhet i Österrike bedömer vi som väldigt goda. I Danmark, som är en av våra nyaste marknader, känner vi oss tygga med kreditkvaliteten och vi skalar den verksamheten nu i ett snabbare takt. And we have previously established credit cards in both Spain and Italy. And it is the beginning of a journey that is of longer character to learn to know these markets that are large and interesting from a more forward-looking perspective. Here we can browse. Here we look at the bank segment by segment and we start with credit cards. The loan portfolio in the segment now exceeds 10 billion. Och den underläggande verksamheten i segmentet växer med 41% jämfört med samma period föregående år. Och vi fortsätter att växa i form av antal kort i marknaden. Vi har nu 379 000 aktiva kort i Tyskland, vilket är en ökning med 33% jämfört med föregående år. Vi ser också ett förbättrat KU-tal i segmentet. It shows that the business is scaling well, and in this case, when we grow so much, then that conclusion is very important for us. And it also goes through the entire bank's QE numbers. Let's have a look. We can switch sides. In the e-commerce segment, we are now seeing the effects of our strong pipeline in new sales, and I have mentioned this earlier in the quarter. The volume of transactions is now growing by 51% compared to the same period last year. The growth is still going, but the increase in transactions can be expected to drive credit volumes in the future and, of course, increased revenues. And an important conclusion here is that despite a tough time for trade in general, we maintain profitability in this business in a very good way. We can look back. In the construction loan segment, we have had a controlled growth rate with a focus on defending the margin. Baktat pressade marginaler i flera marknader levererar segmentet fortsatt starkt. Som jag sagt tidigare så finns erbjudandet nu också i Tyskland. I samband med namnbytet så kommer den nordiska verksamheten flyttas till ett eget dotterbolag, TF Bank Nordic. Och alla varumärken TF Bank kommer fortsätta att användas i den verksamheten. Nu lämnar jag över till Mikael för den fortsatta presentationen.

Yes, thank you very much Joakim. So we can look at our turnover and we can see that DAS has increased to 748 million in the third quarter, which is 20% higher than the corresponding quarter last year. Also this quarter, the main driving force is the growth in the loan portfolio for segmented credit cards. But I would also like to mention that our financing costs continue to decrease in Q3. Here we see that several of our credit accounts have fallen, and then we replace them with cheaper funding or cheaper loan. If we look at our credit losses, these increased to 252 million during the third quarter. The credit loss level increased to 4.5% and was affected in the previous quarter by a mix effect, since our growing credit card segment has a higher income margin and a higher credit loss level than other segments. If we look further at the risk-adjusting margin, we see that it has trended upwards the past year and during the third quarter it rose to 8.9% compared to 8.5% in Q3 2024. The improvement is mainly related to a positive trend for the risk-adjusting margin in the credit cards segment. If we look to the side, Then we can look further at the bank's interest rates, and we can see that they have increased by 15% to 264 million under the third quarter. The company's KJR number at 35.4% is more than 1% lower than the same period previous year. And as you can see in the diagram for the KU number for the credit card segment, it rose to 29% in the last quarter. And the positive trend for the credit card's KU number continues and mainly depends on scale divisions in the business model and also an increased automation of our processes. If we look at our second segment, e-commerce solutions, we can see that the KU rate has risen to 61% in Q3 and the KU rate for e-commerce solutions has increased somewhat in the last year, which is partly explained by a declining loan portfolio that gives a slightly lower income. If we look at our third segment, consumer lending, we see that the KU rate rose to 34% in the quarter. And just as Joakim mentioned earlier, the Nordic business in the segment will be gathered in a new dotter company, which has not affected the KU number at all. If we look at the bank's turnover results, which Joakim also talked about, we see that it has increased by 21% to 231 million under the third quarter. The driving force behind the increase in profit is the strong development of segmented credit cards. The quarterly profit per share increased to SEK 2.70 compared to SEK 2.17 per share in the same period last year. I would also like to mention that the profitability is still strong in Q3 and the drop in the loan portfolio rose to 3.1%, which is 30 points higher than in the same period last year. I would also like to mention that after we announced that approximately 80% of the shares are in R&DM in December 2024, we have significantly more capital in the bank, which means that the return on our own capital has decreased somewhat compared to the same period last year. But if we measure it against a normalized level, we see an increased return on our own capital to 31% compared to 27% last year. If we take a look at our segments, we can start with credit cards. We see that the turnover increased to 120 million in Q3, which is 71% higher than the corresponding quarter last year. Higher revenues from the growing loan portfolio, an increase in risk-adjusted margin and scale allocation that gives it a lower QE ratio contributes to the segment's drop in the loan portfolio has increased to 3.6 in the quarter. And the corresponding quarter last year for this segment was the drop in the loan portfolio's level of 2.8 percent. If we look further at our segment e-commerce solution, we see that the turnover result went up to 26 million in the previous quarter, which is 11% lower than the previous period. And it is above all a high rate of return that contributes to the fact that the results have decreased somewhat. And as I communicated during Q2, we have gone live with several larger traders, which in the short term affects profitability through delayed revenues and early investments. If we look at the segment that was cut off from the loan portfolio, it went up to 3.1% in Q3. If we look at our third segment, consumer lending, we see a turnover of 85 million kronor in Q3, which is 7% lower than the corresponding quarter last year. As I mentioned earlier, the segment's KU number has increased somewhat in relation to the fact that the Nordic company in the segment will be gathering its new subsidiary. If we look at the risk-adjusting margin, we can see an increase, and it is still a very strong and good level of rejection of our loan portfolio in this segment. It rose during the quarter to 2.8% compared to previous years. Moving on to the next page, we can see the bank's financing and liquidity. We see that the loan in Germany continues to be our largest financing source. We now have a balance of 16.4 billion in the loan balance. But it is also a pleasure to see that the loan in the Netherlands has continued to increase and our balance is now up to 5.1 billion based on our Q3. The proportion of fixed interest loans has continued to decrease in the quarter and is now up to 49 percent. If we look at our available liquidity reserves, we saw that 17% of the income balance at the start of Q3, which is about 1% higher than what we had in Q2. Most of the liquidity is, as previously, placed in state equity exchanges with a current rate of up to 12 months, as well as the overnight account of some larger Nordic banks. If we look at LCR and NSFR, they rose to 172, respectively 113 in Q3. The LCR has decreased somewhat in Q3 and this is mainly due to the lower proportion of fixed interest loans we have chosen to have. Since we are changing the mix on this, it also affects our financing costs positively. If we scroll to the next page, we can look at our capital relations. The bank's primary capital relation rose to 14.3%, the primary capital relation to 15.6% and the total capital relation to 17.4% at the beginning of the quarter. The change in the capital relationship has been small and the capital relationship is therefore still 2% lower than the last year's levels. And based on Q3, our capital relations have a significant distance from the regulatory capital crisis at all levels, I would say. And as I mentioned in connection with the Q1 presentation, Finansinspektionen has also decided that our PLR 2 Guidance is 0% of the risk exposure rate. This actually means that we have good visibility in our future capital planning. And finally, I would also like to mention that we have been approved by Finansinspektionen to release our T2 instrument in December. And in connection with this, we are also looking to release new T2 instruments. And with that, I'll leave it back to you, Joakim.

Tack. När vi nu blickar framåt så fortsätter vi med planen att byta namn till Avarada Bank. Vi har sedan tidigare anpassat organisationen och också förberedt konsumtionslåneverksamheten för ett eget bolag, TF Bank Nordic. Denna förändring är motiverad av att hålla fokus på just den affären när en allt större del av bankens verksamhet bedrivs utanför Norden och i andra segment. I övrigt fortsätter vi att bedriva banker med disciplin med sikte på våra nya finansiella mål. Fokuset är paneuropeiskt med Tyskland som vår största marknad. Under 2025 har vi nu också ett antal nya partnerskap som lanseras med stora handlare vilket ytterligare kommer driva tillväxten i e-commerce. Och den starka kapitalsituationen ger ju en platta för fortsatt tillväxt och också nya möjligheter att skapa aktieägarvärden. Med det så övergår vi till Q&A.

Tack så mycket för den presentationen, Joakim och Mikael. Och precis, nu blir det dags för Q&A. Ringar du in så trycker du stjärna 9, föräck upp din hand, sedan stjärna 6, så du slår på din mikrofon när du får ordet. Och med det ställande ordet till Emil Jonsson från DNB Carnegie, varsågod, du har ordet.

Thank you.

Good morning. I'm going to start by asking on the e-commerce side. The transaction volumes increased by about 50% year-on-year. What is it that makes it such a big lag from the fact that it becomes transaction volumes until it actually builds up a... A credit balance? What is the mechanism? Is it because the loan is rent-free in the beginning or should it not be a credit balance directly when someone makes a purchase on repayment or how does it work?

Det beror alldeles på vilken betalningsmetod det är. Vi har betalningsmetod att man väljer att dela i ett antal delar. Då blir det kreditbalans direkt. Är det faktura så har man en betalningstid på fakturan. Så det beror alldeles på vilken betalningsmetod som används i vilken tidsutsträck det är innan det börjar ramla över till kreditbalans.

Låt oss säga att man köper på faktura i så fall.

Det beror ju på den handlaren. Normalt sett så tar det ett antal månader innan det börjar. Sen har vi också en konverteringsgrad. Väldigt många betalar ju sina fakturor. Det är ju det som är huvudprodukten, att vi administrativt hjälper handlarna med att ta betalt. Det brukar ta några månader innan det börjar synas.

But is that because it is a relatively small part of the ongoing purchases that actually happen with some kind of financing alternative? That it is therefore not yet visible any further increase in the credit balance?

Simply put, on that question, Emil, it is probably about what type of trading and what type of product it is. Det går inte att säga något generellt svar utan det generella svaret är att det beror på vad det är för typ av handlare och vilken betalningsmetod som kunden väljer. Det gör man oftast i förhållande till vad det är för typ av produkt.

Men ratio mellan transaktionsvolym och kreditvolym ger ju en indikation på om man leker runt lite där så får det en indikation på helheten. Men just för de här handlarna som vi nu har ombordat och exakt hur de förhållandena ser ut That's what we're not showing them.

But if you look at the net of provisions in e-commerce, it was also quite flat against Q2 this year. Shouldn't that also have affected quite a lot, since there was a big uptick in transaction volumes from August and onwards?

There is a certain level, again, it depends on what kind of trader it is, but it's not that simple to say. But everything else is the same, we usually have a substantial increase from a Q4 period, so it's also seasonal effects, you should also remember. And it's quite low, what should you say, transaction volumes, if you compare Q3 to what we're going to see in Q4, for example. So your theory is probably more linked to a Q4 forecast.

Okay. And more generally, why does a Nordic trader choose your e-commerce solution over someone else's and choose between them?

You mean in the Nordic market, why does a trader choose us over our competitors? Yes, exactly. No, but I think that what we have the opportunity to do is that we have a very good technology, which means that we have a great flexibility in how we integrate ourselves with the dealer. Then I also think in many cases, I think that our Our clean white label strategy, which means that we do not take over the customer journey in any way, but we always, with the technology, work the customer back to the seller's own customer journey, gives the seller a very strong conversion and also recurring purchases. So I think that premium experience and that form of collaboration I think the dealers appreciate that. That's what we notice in our dialogues, at least.

Okay. A question on this Tefbank Nordic move. Am I right in my interpretation that this means some kind of operational change It sounds like this move means that you hire more staff. Is that correct? Do you need to change some processes to make this unit more independent? Or what is it specifically that needs to be changed?

Absolutely. The inspection, if you start from that, they do group supervision, but that also means that every individual company that has a state of authority must have functioning corporate governance processes. You can understand everything from, you can look at it individually when it comes to capital, when it comes to control and all subsequent processes. Of course, the degree of reuse is extremely high between companies in a financial group. Men det innebär ändå att det blir lite extra på marginalen så man måste ha för ett eget bolag.

Okay. Är planen på sikt att den här nordiska consumer lending-enheten ska kunna operera självständigt på något

We are extremely proud of the journey that TF Bank has made. We think that the basis of that business with consumer loans in a Nordic context has been extremely successful with a combination of high profitability and good development in the local markets. And when we communicate more about the bank, both externally and internally, there is a lot of focus on the other segments. And from that perspective, we want to protect how much capital we have and the market position we have, including in goods, when the whole of the company has changed to something radically different. For this reason, we want to strengthen the context in which we work in the construction loan business in the Nordic countries in the form of our own company. This also opens up for other opportunities over time. För det handlar ju om att säkerställa att vi kan bedriva den här verksamheten på ett tillräckligt lönsamt sätt. Det har vi lyckats upprätthålla hittills och vi bedömer att ett eget bolag här ger ökade valmöjligheter för framtiden för att kunna fortsätta resan med en väldigt stark rentabilitet också här.

En sista grej. I saw that the cost of income in credit cards is now below 30% for the first time. Is there anything that has pushed up revenues or pushed down costs in the quarter that makes this not representative for the future? Or is it below 30% that you should expect in the future as well?

Det kortsiktiga svaret är väl egentligen att det finns inga ingångseffekter här utan vi fortsätter väl att skala.

Det är väl så vi kan säga. Banken fortsätter att växa i sin helhet. Intäkterna växer snabbare än kostnaderna. Det är ju inom kreditkortsverksamheten vi framförallt skalar väl. Ur mitt perspektiv så finns det ingenting som talar för att bankens kv-tal i sin helhet inte kommer fortsätta att förbättra sig i in a good way and the credit card should also continue to be the driver in that. But we do not make any forecasts in that way, but it is in the normal business logic that when the business grows, there are scale divisions that arise. And it is one of our most important copies that builds up then, our most important copy, which is profitability on real capital.

I know. Thank you very much. It was all from my side. Thank you Emil.

Then we move on to Patrik Braterus from ABGSE. Please, you have the word.

There. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Super. A few questions. Can you talk a little bit about how you should think about this in relation to loan book growth? Is it expected that it will be a similar development or is there any driver here that will make it grow faster or slower than our expected loan growth in the future? How would you think?

Hi Patrik. No, but absolutely. There is a connection to the loan growth from how we can increase these income masses. And they are mainly of importance in the credit card and e-commerce segment. Historically, e-commerce has a very strong Q4 in relation to these numbers. And you can also think that we will increase them successively, from the fact that loan growth increases in credit cards.

Yes, but I thought from Finns det någon anledning till att det ska växa snabbare än låneboken på längre sikt? Eller är det förväntan att det ska växa i linje med låneboken? Eller ser ni att låneboken kommer drivas av xyz-anledningar, vilket vi inte kommer kunna driva på provisionsintäkterna, vilket gör att det borde växa långsammare över tid?

Du kan tänka i linje utifrån kreditkort men på e-commerce har du säsongseffekter och det Q4 alltid kommer vara starkare än de andra kvartalen.

Okej, tack. Sen har ni en väldigt stark kapitalisering med en större buffert än era målsättning. Historiskt sett så har vi sett utdelningar men vi har även sett konkurrenter som har och även andra banker som har How do you think about these two different alternatives and which do you see as the most attractive? I know it's a question for the board, so I'm asking more about how you think about these deviations, how much potential there is to No, but there is a lot of flexibility in a resale program.

But you also have to look at... On other factors, what we do and the material we prepare for the board is above all to come up with a distribution budget at all. What we do is a capital planning where we look at the business conditions we have in front of us and also what profitability we think we can generate in the company by maximizing the capital. And based on that, we make a decision about whether we should distribute the profit or not. We don't have a clear philosophy in the one project in front of the other. It will be a later question. First, it is about ensuring that we do not have enough profitable growth in front of us. I have to be responsible for the answer.

Okej, tack. Min sista fråga var det här kring att ni ska flytta konsumentlåneverksamheten till det här dotterbolaget som påverkar kostnaderna negativt. Finns det tanke på att långsiktigt helt enkelt ett TF-bank inte ska innehålla konsumentlån, för annars finns det för What are the advantages of having it in a subsidiary company? It looks like you have negative synergies otherwise, by having people who have similar jobs that could otherwise be controlled on central units.

There is a certain overlap in functionality, but we assess that the advantages in the form of maintaining competence and business momentum in that business are superior. And the idea is that the construction loans should really remain in TF Bank, considering that we are moving them to an auto company that will have the name TF Bank Nordic. So that's a business assessment we make. These increased costs are motivated in addition to the fact that we can pay for competence and human capital and business momentum in this business also by creating an opportunity for increased flexibility in this business in the future in a Nordic market for consumer loans that has been pressed for many years with pressed margins. We have had a strong competition, there are many competitors out in the market and we have a new regulation that also makes av att ett antal aktörer antingen måste lämna marknaden eller söka nya myndighetstillstånd. Så det har varit bakgrunden till det. Det är väldigt odramatiskt.

Och tanken att ni ska nu byta namn, såg ni att det nuvarande namnet på något sätt limiterade er innan då era kreditkort och e-commerce som ni nu har jobbat och att det här ska... free something that has been in the way for you earlier? How do you come to the conclusion that changing a name is the best for the company?

We have been working with double brand names since 2015, both with TF Bank and Avarda. And when we introduced the stock market, the construction loan business, which is closely related to TF Bank, was an absolutely dominant business branch. And now, in 2025, it is not. And we want to continue to develop TF Bank in combination with the construction loan business in the best possible way when it becomes an increasingly smaller part of the business. And then we also know that we have been extremely successful in that business for many years with very strong profitability and we want to defend that. At the same time, we have a fast-growing business that is It is digitally driven, which we are now developing in many countries. We coordinate businesses in a good way between credit cards and e-commerce. And from there, it becomes quite natural that we also take the name of the company when that part of the business is a larger part. So not entirely...

Yes, but it feels like the credit card that has driven Delta in e-commerce has been just as big a few years ago than it is now. It has been a bit of a falling loan book. It feels like the function of this equation, Delta, is a credit card.

From a financial perspective, if you look at the bank from a segmental point of view... If you look at how we build products, our internal processes, how we develop our business with everything from technology to how we sell things, they develop more and more in symbiosis with our e-commerce offering and credit card business. Arbetssättet är väldigt gemensamt för de två produktområdena medans vår konstruktionslåneverksamhet arbetar utifrån de lokala marknaden och gör så bra som möjligt som en nischbank jobbar medans både e-commerce och kritikårdsverksamheten är en mycket mer teknisk driven verksamhet där man jobbar utifrån många fler kunder. Jag förstår. Stort tack!

Då går vi vidare här och en vänlig påminnelse att trycka stjärna 6 för att slå på mikrofonen när du får ordet. Då ger vi ordet till Björn Olsson från SEB. Varsågod, du har ordet.

Hör ni mig nu? Jajemansson, hur blir det? Toppen.

Tredje gången gillar på konsumtionslånebenet. Om jag ska läsa mellan raderna och försöka förstå The profit of putting it as your own company, if it is not to divest, can it be more relevant with acquisitions, so that you build up that leg stronger on your own legs?

We look at all possible business opportunities that exist, but we have one leading star and that is profitability on our own capital. So if there are opportunities to make acquisitions where the profitability is so strong, then it is absolutely in the game. But usually we choose organic growth because we determine that it is in that way that we create the profitability that we actually have. So usually it is always organic growth and our own internal capital allocation that we follow also have allocated more capital outside of the Nordic countries than in the Nordic countries in recent years. So it depends, but we are quite agnostic about what we are going to do. Our goal is to drive the bank with as much profitability as possible and also with that enable increased growth that gives a good profit development over time. That's the only thing. In this case, we have made the assessment that the Nordic Consumption Loans, a private company, protects the franchise we have. Strongly linked to TF Bank in the Nordic market, an excellent track record. And it also happens a lot in the Nordic market, so the increased flexibility that we also get from that perspective kan vara användbart under de kommande femårsperioden. Det är inte mer än så som jag kan berätta om det här och nu för du.

Man blir ju nyfiken på vad det är de ska skydda sig mot och om de ska vara gnostiska och de har sämst avstånd så borde de ju bara dö av sig själva så att säga. Det är väl därför det väcker lite nyfikenhet. Men jag ska inte fortsätta So let's look at that.

It goes a little bit in waves. We have had a balance for quite a long time, but last year we got a lot of cards, which means that when those cards have reached a certain age, then the revolver effect takes speed, so to speak. So I would rather see it as that effect, without having deep analysed it all. Men vi kollar hela tiden på att optimera verksamheten, att få ut så mycket kort som möjligt när distributionskostnaden så motiverar. Ingen ändrar strategier eller någonting alls bakom. Vi är ganska glada att vi får ut så många som använder våra produkter. Vi har ett ansträngt makroläge fortsatt i Europa med hyfsat svag konsumtion, osäkerhet bland hushållen och så vidare, som gör att konsumtionen liksom inte är på den nivå som vi har vant oss vid. Så ur det perspektivet så är vi glada att våra produkter används.

They develop their business in a very good way all the time and add to the offer.

They have their strengths and advantages and we have ours. In general, we have learned that it is very good to have good competitors in the market. There is a lot to learn from each other. We think it is very inspiring to learn from others.

We follow them with interest.

I don't see it that way. Our share of the German market is extremely small. And if you look at the German market as a whole, it is quickly growing. In Germany, they are very early in a cash to card conversion. Antal kort per användare kommer att öka så att den marknaden är väldigt stor och vi är en väldigt liten aktör så att vi har förutsättningar att växa så mycket vi bara orkar under många år i min bedömning här och nu. Och om Revolut kommer in i den marknaden och tillför snabbare förändringstakt för marknaden i sin helhet så kan det också vara positivt för oss och dessutom en aktör som man kan lära sig mycket av.

Just det. På fundingkostsidan, Mikael du nämnde att ni har skiftat fram fastighet till rörliga konton. Kan vi vänta oss att ni fortsätter den konverteringen och går ner ytterligare i LCR? Eller ska vi se det som att ni har gjort den resan från 230 till 170% ungefär och nu är ni klara, där vill ni ligga? Eller kan vi vänta oss mer effekt på fundingkostnaderna?

I don't know. The LCR effect was 113, but I think that's what you mean, because it talks about how we have changed. We have a lower percentage of fixed income loans, and thus we have been able to change the mix that affects our financing costs positively. I think that this level is probably the level you should see ahead of you. It will probably differ by a few percent up and down, but it's probably about these levels that we feel quite safe with to rely on.

Okay.

Det var allt för mig. Tack. Tackar.

Tack för det. Och med det så avslutar vi dagens frågestund. Och då lämnar jag över till dig Joakim för några avslutande ord.

Jag vill tacka allesammans för uppmärksamheten och önskar er en riktigt fin dag. Tack så mycket.