TF Bank AB (publ)

Thank you very much. Good morning everyone.

We can go in and look at the highlights during the previous quarter. And here you can see how we closed the fourth quarter of 2025. The quarter was characterized by controlled growth, where we were able to further strengthen our margins. Growth in the local currency increased by a total of 6%. Summing up the activities of the quarter, we get a final operational result of 242 million kronor, which is 29% better than the previous year. And it is the credit card segment that drives the EPS growth at the company level. What we are happy about in particular is that the revenues grow faster than the costs, and if we compare it with what it looked like one year ago, the K-I ratio continues to improve. The business model scales well. During the quarter, we have seen a stable credit quality, And what you have to be aware of when you analyze the credit frustration in just TF Bank is that we are under strong change, both in the form of business and geographical mix. The work to change the name of the company to Avarda is underway according to decisions made by the company during the fourth quarter. Och med anledning av att vi lyckats kombinera stark tillväxt med ökade marginaler och har en god kapitalsituation har styrelsen beslutat att föreslå av bolagsstämman en utdelning om 5 kronor per aktie. Det motsvarar nästan 50% av årets resultat efter skatt, vilket speglar styrkan i vad som levererats under året. Kan vi bläddra? Som vi har beskrivit under en tid så är koncernen i en strategisk förändringsresa. Att byta namn är en del att positionera koncernen för fortsatt expansion. Under det fjärde kvartalet tog en extrabolagstämma beslut om att byta koncernens namn till Avarda Bank AB. En ändring av bolagsnamn förutsätter nu relevanta myndighetstillstånd och kommer att exekveras på under våren. Låt mig ta bakgrunden till förslaget. Det här har vi varit igenom tidigare. Since the introduction of the stock market in 2016, the bank has been developed from a Nordic niche actor to a European credit and payment platform, and we are now active in 14 countries. Today, we have an attractive European positioning, with Germany as the clearest example. And as you know, the growth today is mainly in credit cards and in markets outside the Nordic countries. This means that the consumer loan business Som TF Bank i huvudstad gick till börsen med är vi sedan till lägre del av låneportföljen än vid introduktionen. Konsumenten i Norden utgjorde nu mindre än 25% av bankens låneportfölj jämfört med cirka 70% vid introduktionen. Det innebär också att andra KPI-er blir mer intressanta för verksamhet idag. Tittar man på dem så kan man visa på bankens resa under den här perioden. Today we have more than 3 million users compared to 300,000 at the stock market introduction. Today we have a transaction volume of 46 billion compared to 3 billion at the introduction. This is a quite dramatic change. And under the brand Avarda we are one of the leading actors within BNPL in the Nordic countries. And it is now Avarda that we rely on for the company's overarching business. With digital solutions, an innovative and flexible way of working, we build the foundation for our financial goals that we are working towards now. And we lay the foundation for a continued strong profitable growth in the European card and payment market. Back to the normal. Here we look at the growth in the loan book segment by segment in local currency. If we start with the whole, the quarter's organic growth was 6% and the year-on-year 23%. Credit cards, such as the bank's growth motor, grew by 10% during the quarter, grew by 48% year-on-year. e-commerce increased by 10% under the quarter and 4% year-on-year. And consumer lending was unstable during the quarter to local currency, but 6% year-on-year. Here we see the bank described market for market. We can start with Germany, which geographically is the core of the bank's growing credit card business. We have continued to set a strong demand for the bank's credit card and we expect continued strong growth in the coming quarter. Germany is now over 40% of the bank's loan book. In the German market, we have launched our e-commerce offer at the end of 2024. Initially it was for Nordic traders, but we now also have local customers. Under 2025, we launched a German consumption loan. So, of course, even in that product, Germany has a great potential, but as always, when we enter a new market, we do it with caution and perseverance. But that means that we are active in Germany now with all the offers that the bank has. In Norway, both e-commerce solutions and the consumer loan business continue to grow. In Norway, the same applies to credit cards. We see above all an improved result in the credit card business. But that is our... our strongest market in the Nordic countries. In general, the focus is to maintain profitability and credit quality in the Nordic markets. Also in the Nordic countries, we have Baltic countries, Estonia, Lithuania and Lithuania. All three countries were credit quality stable and the business continues to develop in a good way. In Austria, we see that the credit card business has developed in a good way. Of course, a smaller market than the German one. Men vi ser att våra förutsättningar att bedriva en lönsam affär i Österrike är god. Och vår vinstutveckling i marknaden är också stark. I Danmark, som är en av våra nyare marknader, känner vi oss trygga med kreditkvaliteten. Och vi skalar också verksamheten i allt snabbare takt. Och som vi har berättat tidigare så har vi etablerat kreditkort i Italien och Spanien. Och det är ju början på en lång resa att lära oss dessa marknader. Och de är stora och intressanta ur ett längre perspektiv för banken. Gamledra. Here we look at segment by segment and we start with credit cards. The loan portfolio in the segment is now almost 12 billion. The underlying business in the segment is growing by 48% compared to the same period in the previous year. We continue to grow in the form of a number of new cards. We now have 401,000 active cards in Germany and that is an increase of 31% compared to the previous year. Vi ser också ett förbättrat kv-tal i segmentet, vilket visar att affären skalar väl. I det här fallet när vi växer så snabbt så är just slutsatsen och skalbarhet väldigt viktig för oss. Det här slår nu igenom på hela bolagets kv-tal. Det kan bläddra. In the e-commerce segment, we now see the effects of our strong pipeline in new sales, which we have talked about earlier this quarter. The volume of transactions is growing by 37% compared to the same period last year. And the growth rate on a yearly basis is now 4% from the previous silent year-on-year. And this is a signal that the volume of transactions and the increase in transactions drives the credit volumes and will also drive increased income in the future. And there is a natural conjecture in how How volume and revenue are developed in this segment, and it becomes extra extreme during a year when we have a underlying transaction growth during the second half of the year that we have had here. And to summarize the business as a whole, and Mikael will come back to some extraordinary, more bookkeeping-technical events during this quarter. Despite the fact that we have had a tough time for the sector here in recent years, we maintain profitability in a good way. We develop the business both geographically and offer-wise as part of the development of the entire company. I will come back to that later in my final words. You can turn to the side. In the consumer lending segment, we have had a controlled growth rate with a focus on defending margins. I think that this segment delivers strongly, ensuring pressed margins in several markets. Erbjudandet finns som jag sa på plats i den tyska marknaden och Tyskland och Danmark kan förväntas stå faktiskt för en stor del av tillväxten i segmentet framöver. I samband med att vi förbereder namnbytet till Avarda för verksamheten så samlar vi den här verksamheten i dotterbolag. Planen är att fortsätta verka under varumärket TF Bank för konsumtionslån och verksamheten. Nu lämnar jag över till Mikael för den fortsatta presentationen.

Great. Thank you very much. If we turn the page, we can first look at our moving income. We can see that they rose to 798 million SEK in the fourth quarter, which is 22% higher than the corresponding quarter of 2024. The growth in the loan portfolio for the credit card segment continues to be the main driving force, as Joakim pointed out, and this also increases our income. If we look at the company's turnover margin, it increases to 13.7 in Q4 and the increase is also driven by the growth of the credit card. If we look at our credit losses, they went up to 277 million during the fourth quarter. If we look at the credit loss level, it increases to 4.8 and this key figure also affects that the credit card becomes a larger part of the company and the segment has a higher credit loss level than the rest. Therefore, the ratio figure is somewhat higher. But if we look at the most important margin, the risk-adjusting margin, we can see that it is strong, unchanged compared to the previous quarter, 8.9 percent. But if we compare it year on year, we see that our risk-adjusting margin has increased by 40 points. We can look at the bank's moving costs, and we can see that they increased by 14% to 280 million under the fourth quarter. The KU's KU number has improved. We had 35% which is a little over 2% lower than the corresponding period last year. And as you can also see in the diagram, it is the credit card that is at 29% in the last quarter, i.e. Q4. And the positive trend, just as Joakim mentioned, depends primarily on the share distribution we see in the business model and also, I would like to point out, an increased automatization of processes. And since credit cards make up a growing part of the bank, this also has clear effects on the company's credit card debt. If we look at our second segment, e-commerce solution, we had a KU rate of 63%. The KU rate for e-commerce solution has increased somewhat in the past year, which is due to a mix of higher costs, which is, among other things, related to our starting costs for new markets, but also an unchanged loan portfolio that affects our income, and that has an effect on the KU rate. If we look at our third segment, consumer lending, we see that the KU rate rose to 31% during Q4, which is slightly lower than what we had in the corresponding quarter of 2024. We can take a look at the bank's moving results. As Joakim mentioned, it increased by 29% to 242 million under the fourth quarter. The driving force, again in this quarter, behind this growth year on year, is the stable and strong development we have in the credit card segment. The quarter's profit per share increased by 36% in 2.83 SEK. This also affects the lower interest rates for our AT-obligations, which is also positive and makes our AT-EPS, which is closest to the shareholder, increase by 36%. If we look at the profitability, it is strong in Q4. We have a drop in the loan portfolio that rose to 3.1%. That is actually 50 points higher than the corresponding period last year. And despite the fact that we have significantly more capital in the bank after the shutdown of our NPL investments, as you will remember, in December 2024, the drop in the equity capital rose to 25% in Q4. And if we measure against a more normalized level, we see that the decline is now at more than 30 percent. If we continue to look at the results per segment, we start with the credit card segment. We had a moving result of 136 million in Q4, which is 81 percent higher than the corresponding quarter of 2024. Again, higher revenues from the growing loan portfolio, rising risk-based margins and share shares, which gives it a lower K1 number, contributes together to the fact that the segment's discount on the loan portfolio has increased to 3.7% in Q5. And if we look at the corresponding quarter of 2024, the segment's discount on the loan portfolio was 2.8%. We can move on to e-commerce. If we look at the e-commerce segment, the turnover was up to 13 million in the fourth quarter. But here we also had credit loss levels of 35 million. And here I also want to say that, just as Joakim mentioned, that I would say It is affected by a negative effect of about 10 million, which is related to updates in our model, looking forward to future credit losses on our NPLs. We have the same corresponding positive in consumer lending, so we have a neutral effect on the entire company, which is important to point out. But in the e-commerce segment, it was negative with 10 million, so I want you to take that with you. If we look further at the segment, we have had a lot of start-up costs that are related to new collaborations that affect our support segment's QE rates in Q4. If we look at the drop in the loan portfolio, it went up 1.5%, but if we adjust from these 10 million, we see that the drop in Q4 is more normalized to 2.6%. I will continue and then we will move to the next page about consumer lending. Here we look at this segment and then we see that we have a turnover result of 93 million, which is 17% higher than the previous quarter. And here I would like to mention that the segment's outfall in Q4 is positively affected by an input effect of 10 million, which is then related to the update in the model based on the expected future credit losses on our MPL stocks. And this effect in consumer lending affects both the rate of credit losses and cash costs. Approximately 5 million on credit losses and 5 million on cash costs, which then includes the OPEX rate. If we look at the discount on the loan portfolio for the segment, it went up to 3.1. But if we adjust from this positive effect, we are more at a normalized 2.8 percentage. If we look at the bank's financing and liquidity, we see that the loan in Germany is still our largest financing source, almost 17.5 billion in the loan balance at the beginning of 2025. Our largest market for loans is the Netherlands, which now has a loan rate of almost 5 billion. And I would also like to mention that the company's loan amount is about 44% of the fixed interest account of the liquidity that we actually have. If we look at our available liquidity reserves, then it went up to 18% of the loan balance at the beginning of the quarter, which is about 1% higher than Q3. And as you know, most of the liquidity is, as previously, placed in state debt exchanges with an outstanding running time of 12 months, as well as overnight accounts with some of the largest Nordic banks. If we look at the LCR level and the NSF level, they rose to 222 percent, respectively 115 in Q4. vilket är något högre i Q3. Det kan vara bra att veta att de regulatoriska gränserna för båda dessa värden ligger på 100 procentenheter. Så vi ligger på väldigt bra nivåer, skulle jag vilja påstå. Vi kan bläddra. Tittar vi på våra kapitalrelationer så uppgick bankens kärnprimärkapitalrelation till 13 procent. Primärkapitalrelationen 14,2 och den totala kapitalrelationen på 16,1 vid utgången av kvartalet. And here it is important to point out that capital reductions are of course affected by the deductions we have for foreseeable expansion if they are 323 million in the capital base. I would also like to mention that during Q4 we have also emitted new T2 bonds of 150 million and at the same time released a T2 bond of 100. And just to say something more about our capital relations, we have continued to have a significant distance to the regulatory capital requirements on all three levels. And I can also mention, as we have mentioned earlier, that the Financial Administration has also decided that our PLR 2 roadmap, which is 0% of the risk exposure rate, which means that we have good visibility in our future capital planning and can thereby The board can then suggest to the board about this extension. I hand it over to you Joakim.

Thank you. Looking forward, we will continue with the plan to change the name to La Varda. We have previously adjusted the organization and prepare Us, to drive the construction loan business with Dotterbolag under the brand TF Bank. All to keep focus on that business now when a large part of the company's business is outside of the Nordic and within credit and payments. And in general, we continue to drive the business with discipline, with a focus on our financial goals. Focus is pan-European with Germany as the largest market. Also now when we look forward, we still have a great demand for our credit offer. And the majority of the growth will come in the German market. And we see a number of other markets that are very interesting, but it is Germany that will be decisive for our growth in the coming year. To be aware is not just a question for us to change the name of the existing business. During the year, we have also put significant effort into uniting the organization and the technical platform to lift our operational business to the next level. And it may not be decisive for this generation of financial goals, but it lays the foundation for the next generation som vi arbetar med redan nu och vi tror att kopplingen mellan kort och betalningar kommer bli allt starkare framöver. Nu övergår vi till fråga och svar.

Tack så mycket för presentationen. Precis som du nämnde ska vi fortsätta nu med lite Q&A och har ni ringt innan vi ställer en fråga tycker ni stjärna 9 för att räcka upp handen och sedan stjärna 6 för att unmute er när ni får ordet. Den första frågeställaren vi släpper in här är Patrik Bratselius från ABG. Varmt välkommen.

Thank you very much. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Super.

Then I thought we could start with the credit card segment. We see that the interest net margin continues to grow steadily since the beginning of 2024. You grow quite quickly within the segment. How should one think about front book margins relative to back book margins? If you had grown faster, do you see that it would have affected the margin negatively? How should one think about this?

If at a given time everything else wants to grow more, then our sales costs will be higher and a part of them is taken upfront. There is such a dynamic all the time in how we tactically act on our sales and how much we want to pay for each card on the margin all the time. So that dimension is absolutely there. When it comes to how profitability looks front and back, it is the case that we are in a period where the recovery costs successfully come down. During this period, you can see that it is gradually coming in. There is a little more to be done in that trajectory. It is quite predetermined in the perspective that we have old funding that is running out and new funding that is coming. In general, if you look at this segment, Despite the fact that we entered Germany in 2017, we are still learning. On average, we are a little better at making credit decisions than we were in the previous quarter. This development has been quite constant for many years. This also means that the risk-adjusted margin over time has a positive development. Then, as we talked about during the last quarter, we are in a period of geopolitical concern. There has been an economic change, which means that even German households, I'm talking a lot about Germany, because that's the decisive factor for this segment, German households are a bit pressured. We see that the credit losses are stable. We may not see the same volume pressure as we have had in normal conditions. The labor market is still stable. Vår utblick för den tyska ekonomin har ju varit att det kommer att ta fart, men sen så hela tiden så avbryter vi av förnyade geopolitiska ord, så det här skjuts ju lite grann framför oss hela tiden. Så det är liksom lite olika tendenser som går generellt i det här segmentet, men underliggande ändå så pekar alla trajektorier rätt för oss.

Det låter ju bra. Bara följ upp på den här kommentaren du nämnde att du tror att det fortsatt finns kanske ytterligare lite marginalexpansionspotential på räntenettot. Kan vi bryta ner det i dynamik? Vad snackar vi? Är det ytterligare 20-30 punkter eller hur ska man tänka kring det? I och med att det har sett väldigt imponerande ut nu under en for a longer period of time, and if there are still more, how should we think about that?

Marginal strengthening in that dimension comes from the fact that our funding cost will, on average, decrease a little more. And how that development looks, it completely depends on what happens in the loan market in the future. So it's hard to say. The only thing we can look at is how the funding cost on the margin has been from the top to where it is now. And then we see, when it comes to our average funding cost, that we have another piece to come down.

Okay, thank you. If we slide over to e-commerce, a segment that unfortunately does not have the same impressive development. You are very positive about the communication here, and even if you adjust for this one-off in the quarter, it is 25, down quite a bit towards 24. We see in the statistics that you have and that we get upfront costs in the beginning. But this dynamic of when it starts to hit the numbers and we see this turnaround, can you give a little more comment on when you can start to expect that and that this starts to contribute to the group's growth profile instead of now being a negative driver?

I can start to answer, Patrik. If we go back in these quarters, we were pretty clear that we had a 30% margin. I don't think it's sustainable over a long time, considering the competitive situation that exists. It arose when we had our higher interest rates, we moved over to merchant against customer, it took time. And then at the same time, when we did that, we also got positive funding properties from the fact that the lower the funding costs, the higher our revenue margin went up. And then at the same time, you had a declining portfolio. So all things were right for you to make as high a result as possible. But now we also see that in the long term, it is not good that you do not get new businesses. Now that we get new businesses, Then we have a starting line for them to become profitable if you can build up these transaction volumes that Joakim also says should be interest-bearing. So it takes a little time, because now we are growing in the portfolio and it was a long time since we actually did that.

Ja, men finns det inte en Q4-dynamik där också, att det är lite extra mycket transaktioner i Q4 och att eventuellt man kan se en fallande portfölj i Q1?

You will probably see the same, but not as strong as the previous year, because the merchants that we have taken in work much more with transaction volume. The merchants that we have work much more with transaction volume, and it is a customer behavior that we actually see. In the cycle we had with the black quarter, we saw that the sale took off a little earlier, which meant that we could also get returns, which is quite unusual historically. That's why you've had those hits between a Q4 and a Q1. you will not see them in the same way as last year. That is why you did not see a stronger growth than what you had just now, but also that there was much more volume in transactions than there was in interest rates during our Q4.

Okay, thank you. One last question concerns capital allocation in advance. We see now that you are announcing a division, and that means that you have a buffer of 320 points over your total capital requirement. And then you are above the 250-point goal. Is that how we should also think, that around 300 points is roughly what you want calibrate over the capital requirement and then adjust the allocation afterwards? Or is there another way to think about capital allocation in the future?

Our capital planning is a little more sophisticated in some other dimensions. And one such aspect, for example, for business in our sector, is, for example, what NPL degree you have. And then you know that we We basically emptied all of our MPLs one year ago. So that means we have one year of construction, apart from those we have sold during the year. And that makes it an aspect that is important for us when we hold capital. But in general, we can say that we do not guide our capital planning and distribution decisions. However, if you have a business that has a capital level, as we have done, and we have taken an analysis now, if you have an EPS growth that is greater than volume growth, then there is a healing period that grows rather than shrinks. So that's how you can see the balance here and in the future. But in the end, it's a vote and decision after the board's analysis, so it's hard for us to guide.

Ja, tack för det. Tack så mycket.

Tack. Tack så mycket för det. Då går vi vidare här i frågestunden och släpper in nästa frågeställare som är Björn Olsson från SEB. Varsågod. Ska vi se, vi gör ett nytt försök igen. Björn Olsson från SEB, det är din tur. Then we'll move on to Emil Jonsson from DNB Carnegie. Welcome.

Good morning. I'd like to start by asking about the competition on the credit card in Germany. I understand that it is still profitable, but would you say that it is stable or that it is increasing?

I would say that it is very stable, actually. We have good competitors there and it is So it's very stable.

It's healthy. Okay. And e-commerce revenues. Now you mentioned a little about that returns came earlier than what we historically have done. Would you say that you should expect that there will be further lagging effects on e-commerce revenues in Q1? Or have we now seen full effect from the trades that you onboarded in 2025?

No, absolutely not. It took more than a quarter. The last big trade came during Q2. You have to count with three or four quarters before it's fully built.

I was going to ask, correct me if I'm wrong, Is it in the next quarter that you expect to cancel the last 20% in Regen?

According to the plan that exists, it is in the current quarter, i.e. under Q1. But everything is required by the authority and so on. That's the plan.

Yes, okay. And then I assume that like the first cancellation, should you then expect that it will be like a...

Yeah, all right.

One last question. Has Rediem got SDR status now, or how is the status there?

It works like this, that you report interest and then you have to show it during a business year or under four quarters. That means that four quarters have passed now, so now you are waiting for the time to report to the financial inspection how you are doing. So that will happen at the first possible reporting event. That's how it works technically.

Okay. And from the fact that they reported it to FI, does FI need to give a written approval from the fact that you can start acting as SDR? Or is it enough that you have just said that now we have displayed these figures?

As far as I understand it, you register it and it is the institution's own responsibility, as the rule of law is formulated, that you live up to these requirements. But it is of course that I think that the financial inspection, without knowing how they operate in their work, adds extra interest to the in-reporting. But when you register it, you start to work as you were. And it's about how the capital technology report should look like.

Alright, but thank you very much, that was all the questions I had. Thank you Emil.

Thank you very much Fred, then we'll move on here and give the floor to Björn Olsson at SCB.

Hi, can you hear me now? Yes, I can hear you. All great. Then I'll start by asking about the Nordic consumer industry. Should we understand that you are talking about strategic flexibility in the previous quarter? Now you are talking more about it being on its own legs. Does that mean that we should see it as if you are aiming to start growing the Nordic consumer loan part again through this dotter company?

I think you should see it as if we allocate capital to the concern. in order to create maximum shareholder value. Normally, you allocate where there is a good discount on your own capital. So it depends on how the Nordic markets are developed in the future. And as you have seen now, in absolute recent times, we have not allocated so much capital to the Nordic construction market. So there is no extra... Man får inte frikort för att man har ett eget återbolag, utan de verkar under samma koncernreglementer och syn på eget kapital. Och också bidrar till helheten, vilket de gör på ett väldigt bra sätt. Men det beror alldeles på marknadsförutsättningarna, det är det korta svaret.

Okej, och det innebär egentligen att, tills något annat aviseras, ska vi se på det som... Maybe a little bit in run-off mode.

No, you can't say that. We have growth in the segment. If you compare that growth with Nordic BNP development, I think we are growing in a healthy way and also in line with what the authorities expect and the legislation on the area and so on. It's about good loans to good customers.

Very enough. Och på ICOM då, egentligen bara för att följa upp på Patricks fråga, det var säkert jag som inte, ni har säkert redan svarat på det i viss del, men hur ska vi se på de här uppstartskostnaderna rent tidsmässigt? How long does it take for these big contracts? In which quarter do you expect it to start to slow down?

It's very different. The starting cost is formally a pure starting cost in two dimensions. The pure starting cost is actually the integration cost that you have initially. What we call the starting cost is net of... of the transaction costs that we have minus the income that we have on the credit volume or the loan, the interest-bearing balance. And the net is normally negative because the volume of the transaction is required to build up an interest-bearing volume. And there you can find the trade-off or the reverse relationship that the revenues from the interest rate balance. It depends on the conversion rate among how the customers look. And it's never unique per segment and trader actually how it looks. And also a little varying over time. So it takes a lot of different things. But normally you don't need a complete earthworm, but almost a earthworm to find these long-term... where you have built up the existing customer volume that you have, then the churn in the book becomes as large as the incoming one, where you find the balance for the trader. And we never know that in advance, but it's an assumption that we make. So how long it takes and where it is, it takes different long periods, is unique for each trader, and it also depends on how the macro looks. But normally, Som jag sa tidigare, vi anser att vår sista handel är av större karaktär än slutet på det andra kvartalet. Eller kanske till och med början på tredje. Det här är somras i alla fall och det innebär att det tar 3-4 kvartal innan vi har nått balansen på den med stor sannolikhet.

Alright. Du nämnde på slutet att ni bygger en ny teknisk plattform eller uppdaterar till en ny. Kan ni ge någon känsla för vad det innebär? Ökar ni skalbarheten i vilken volym ni kan hantera i ert system? Kommer det här driva några kostnader, antingen run-off eller running?

Vi investerar löpande i vår tekniska plattform. Vi är generellt sett väldigt konservativa i att periodisera kostnader och gömma dem för framtiden. Vi tar en stor andel hela tiden. Hela tiden löpande så det ingår i normal affärsplanering att investera i teknik. Genom att ha en teknisk plattform som kombinerar funktionalitet från betalningar och kort och lån i det perspektivet också. Det vi tror framförallt är att skalbarhet är absolut en sak. Det andra är den frihet som vi kan utforma olika produkter och tjänster som kommer att vara det enda. Den stora möjliggöraren, om vi blickar framåt här nu, de kommande 5-10 åren, så är det den grunden vi lägger nu.

Men egentligen då ingen större kostnadseffekt?

Nej, du ska tänka på det där perspektivet.

Toppen. Och på inlåning, som ni visade så är ju Tyskland den primära drivaren av deposit funding. Kan ni ge någon känsla för hur det sentimentet utvecklas på inlåningsidan? Har ni behövt höja? Är det mer prispress? Är det mindre prispress på deposits? Hur känner ni av det?

Let's look at the whole picture, if you think about our interest rate costs in relation to interest-bearing debts. It will be like that if you want to see it. Then there are times when we really need to increase the funding because we need to get more in. It is also balanced with the need to get in fixed interest, need to get in overnight money. But in general, we have an improved funding cost to see ahead of us, even though it goes slowly. But that's really the general answer. Because if the general answer would have been that we see that we need to increase our interest rates to German customers, then it would also be a breakthrough for the entire book. I think you should see it in that aspect, the funding cost and so on.

Ja, det är väldigt stabilt i den tyska marknaden. I grund och botten så är det ju centralbankens ränta som ligger där. Sen så är det precis som Mikael säger, det handlar om en viss inlåning och det handlar om en inlåning på termin. Det beror alldeles på vårt behov och också hur behovet i marknaden ser ut. Så det fluktuerar ganska mycket.

Men är det egentligen marknaden jag har tänkt på? Men då upplever ni inte... Just because it's quite crowded by Swedish niche banks on Raising, for example, and so on. But you don't notice the difference between central interest or Stibor, or whatever you need to price.

No, not in a way that we can say that it is something existing. However, from time to time, we see competitors who both increase and decrease, and then we have to act after that, depending on what our own needs look like. But there is no such thing as a market that is under change in some way, but it is a normal rush, so to speak.

Yes, but great. One last question then. Joakim, you mentioned a little bit about how German households continue to feel pressured, and you grew the credit card with 25,000 cards in about a quarter. Is it If you think that it will be better or worse for German households, is that still the pace that you think your potential is growing?

Absolutely. What I actually think is decisive is the sales cost. I think we have a healthy pace now. I think the pace is more in terms of the number of cards. I think especially when I think about it, the credit for Lustraden is less sensitive in general, since we have so many credits for so many customers. It's more about the German economy and the demand for investment. In general, there is an economy and what comes from households. If you look at the uncertainty among German households in the future, it is still higher than normal, despite the fact that the labor market is stable. This reflects the geopolitical situation, and it has not been able to be stopped yet. Och i slutändan så är ju tysk arbetsmarknad och investeringar i tysk ekonomi som kommer att läka ut det. Och de kommer ju komma, trots geopolitisk osäkerhet, så kommer det investeras i tysk ekonomi. Så det är väl svåra tänk kring det. Vimligt. Stort tack. Tack.

Tack så mycket för det. Och det var den sista frågan vi hade här idag. Så tack till alla som har ringt in och ställt frågor. Tack till alla som har tittat. Och nu lämnar jag över ordet till Joakim för lite avslutande.

Ja, och då vill jag tacka er så hemskt mycket för uppmärksamheten. Och jag önskar er en trevlig dag och en fortsatt härlig rapportsäsong.