Trelleborg AB (publ)

Welcome to the Trelleborg Q3 2023 report presentation. For the first part of the presentation, participants will be in listen-only mode. During the questions and answers session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing star 5 on their telephone keypad. Now I will hand the conference over to CEO Peter Nilsson and CFO Frederick Nilsson. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Peter speaking, welcoming you to this interim report for Q3 2023 for Fortalaborg. I'm going to start off with some overall comments and also commenting on the business areas and then Fredrik will guide us through the financials before we sum up with the summary of our presentation and then opening it up for a Q&A session. in a way as usual when we are presenting our quarterly reports. So moving over to the slides with a trust you can see on the screen if you have not have them already downloaded from our web page. Turning then to page two agenda, starting with the highlights, then as I said before, go through the business areas, commenting on the financials, make a summary, and then go to the outlook for Q4 with some comments on that. and then opening up for the Q&A. So turning then to the next page, page three, heading for the report, continued strong earnings growth. As you can see, we are growing our sales by 12%, supported by currency, but also supporting by some structural growth, some acquisitions. while organic sales is flattish or slightly in the negative territory, while then, as I said before, M&A adding some shy of 10% and currency some shy of 5%, which in total then sums up at 12% sales growth. And a similar growth in EBITDA, it grew by 11%, which means that the margin ends up at 17.6%, which is kind of an inch down a nod down compared to a year ago. So basically we were able in the core fully for the inflation and also to absorb some of this M&A coming in with a slightly lower margin. So basically a good performance for us and where we are able to manage these flat dish organic sales in a good way. Continue to restructuring, continue also to develop and create a more efficient Trelleborg. We're investing in the structure and we have already, as we commented on already in the last quarter, we have already several actions initiated and more of them ongoing in order to adjust for this more flattish sales development expected for us. Cash flow very strong, very happy for that. Managed working capital. We are, let's say, giving credit to our units, managing inventory, managing also account receivables in a very good way. It turns out a very good cash generation, even though, as you will see later, Fredrik will guide you through that, even though we remain also on a high capex level. But all in all, a very good cash conversion. If you're looking for the last 12 months, Fredrik will also guide on. We also highlight that we actually divested an automotive-focused operation in the Czech Republic signed yesterday. So that is kind of the last kind of non-core operations being divested from us. There might be some minor fine-tuning, but this is one thing which we have been reporting centrally in Trelleborg, so it's not been part of any business area. and this is a let's say a zero profit activity which we know divesting and exiting so we are happy to get that done and move forward now and only having core businesses left in interlable so moving on to the next page some some more comments on organic sales as you can see more relatively okay. We're still positive in Europe and flattish in North and South America while we see Asia going negative. So Asia is the one which is pulling us into negative territory and then as for a lot of other guys primarily China then which is still a bit short of expectations and where we are also managing this in a good way of course adjusting for this lower demand in China as well but overall means that we end up at minus one on the totality uh turning to page agenda point again on page five business areas quickly then turning to page six uh heading industrial solutions continue to improve uh highest margin to date for this business area although organic sales is uh here as well minus one uh mixed bag of performance i get back and comment on that one m a a tiny add-on here from a small Small M&A that's been done in the last year. We note continued weak sales. You say weaker sales. I mean, I don't say it's just being bad, let's say any worse than before, but it remains on a low level. So quarter on quarter, flat-ish, while on year-on-year still substantially down. So that is kind of what is pulling us down overall. And also we note in certain what we call industrial segments, um there is also negative growth and this is how to get back and comment more maybe on ceiling solutions where we know that there is we believe there is some inventory reductions ongoing which is then impacting us as well as others who supply components into these more capital goods related industries very strong sales in the marine segment and especially happy here that we say are growing in what we call Our smart port concept, which is more what we call marine technology business. So that is, let's say, a strategic move that we've been pushing for for some time. And we now know with satisfaction that we see some benefits of this. So this is good sales and also having a positive impact on the margin. On the more kind of stable business, if I may say, automotive railway developed also favorably. which is railway related more to product sales, while automotive underlying demand keeps on a solid and healthy level, which is benefiting us in industrial solutions. And in total, then EBITDA is up on price adjustments. We are hit by the inflation here, but not the big thing anymore. But nevertheless, it's been a positive in the quarter. And on top of that positive mix, as I said, marine segment is coming in and bringing up the demand somewhat by delivering better profitability than the rest and all in all once again highest EBITDA margin and we are now in this quarter 16.2 so of course with satisfaction not to say that we remain forever quarter on this 16 but nevertheless we are approaching a higher level and we are satisfied with the development on industrial solutions and we do believe that we will continue to improve this step by step turning to the next page ceiling solutions here i mean a lot of investment is ongoing and we are both integrating minnesota rubber while also continuing to invest especially aerospace in medical and healthcare, and also in electronic semiconductors in order to grow those areas. In the quarter, we had aerospace and healthcare, medical remained favorable, good growth overall. Automotive increased as well. While we're here, it's being hurt a little bit, what we call industrial demand, where we see that some segments is down substantially more than underlying market, which we then read there is some inventory reductions ongoing. It has been ongoing also in the last quarter and continued into this quarter. Difficult really to estimate how long it will remain, but for sure we are at the moment kind of delivering below the underlying market, which is definitely then impacted by this inventory reduction for some of our customers. And overall, that means even though EBITDA, in absolute figures, improved. We dropped on the EBIT margin, which is then due to acquisition of MRP still being integrated and still having a negative impact. And also on top of that, these investments that we're doing, especially in people, is hurting us somewhat in terms of profitability, while we, of course, are doing this in order to create a better foundation for both growth and profitability long term. So overall, Although the margin is down, we are satisfied with the development of ceiling solutions. There is, of course, improvement areas as everywhere else. And we are looking forward to this kind of industrial supply getting back while remaining positive on aerospace, healthcare, medical, as well as electronics or semiconductors. So this is the quarter for ceiling solutions. Moving to page eight, some on sustainability. Continue to improve, focusing here on CO2. 20% down on intensity year on year. Of course, a solid movement. But also, for those of you reading, moving to the next page and talking about more what is behind this is, of course, that renewable energy is increasing and we're now running at the 60 percent level and we do expect that to increase further so we do expect our co2 emissions to continue to go down very good development in this area so credit to the people within Trelleborg working with this and we have see a very solid ground to get to our targets in this Also on the right side of the slide, you see lost work cases, which of course extremely important as well, safety at work, as we call it internally in Trelleborg, which is also continuing on a good level. So well managed in terms of these key sustainability KPIs. And as stated before, this is of course a focus area for us. And we do, although good, let's say development, we do expect continued improvements going forward.

uh moving to the next page page 10 agenda financials and then to page 11 where i hand over to frederick to go through the financials thank you peter looking at the sales development on page 11 we have organic sales decreased by one percent in the quarter both business area declined by one percent reported net sales increased by 12 percent We have 9% impact from acquisitions during quarter, while currency added 4%. Moving on to page 12. The third quarter was a spot on quarter on our sales growth target. And as you also can see in the graph, we have been on or above our sales growth target the last 10 quarters. Moving on to page 13. showing the quarterly sales and rolling 12 months for continuing operations. The sales of 8 billion, 458 billion was the highest to date for a third quarter. And at the rolling 12 month basis, the sales almost reached 34 billion stick. Moving on to page 14, looking at the EBIT A. EBITDA, excluded items affected comparability, increased by 11% to 1,487,000,000 with profit growth in both industrial solution and ceiling solution. In the result, there was also a translation impact of 34 million compared to the corresponding quarter last year. EBITDA margin, 17.6% in the quarter, initially impacted by acquisition, as Peter mentioned, but we are also investing in the organization of some fast-growing market segments. Moving on, page 15, looking at the EBITDA and EBITDA marginal rolling 12-month spaces. The positive trend continued with increased EBITDA. As we earlier communicated, the margin declined somewhat in the quarter. On the rolling 12 months, Debit A amounted to 5,980,000,000 with a margin of 17.4%. Moving on to page 16, looking at some further details in the income statement, we have items affecting comparability in the quarter of 111,000,000, which is entirely related to restructuring costs. And those restructuring costs are because we are adjusting our cost base due to the lower demand. Financial net decreased from 69 to 44 million. That was an impact on higher interest expenses, but this was offset by higher interest income attributable to the group's net cash position. Tax rate for the quarter amounted to 25%. We were earlier guided for 26% for the full year, and that still stands. Moving on, page 17, earnings per share. Earnings per share for continue operations increased by 90% from 3.52 sec per share to 4.19. If you don't look at the group, it's down 20% and that is due to the earlier divestments of wheel system and printing blankets this year. The impact from those to Business units is 1.46 SEC. Moving on to page 18. As Peter said, we are really happy about the cash flow development. We're now seeing an increase from 928 million SEC to 1.6 billion SEC. Supported by higher earnings generation, But particularly, we are seeing a very good working capital development. Improvements both in inventory, receivables, and in other working capital items. Net capex up as earlier communicated, and this is because we're expanding our footprint with earlier communicated greenfield investments. You can also see that leasing payments is higher in the quarter, but that's linked to the ongoing greenfield investments. Moving on to page 19, looking at the cash conversion on a rolling 12 months, you can see the very good trend continue, and we now have a cash conversion ratio of 99%. Moving on to page 20, looking at the gearing and leverage, as the group is still in a net cash position, the sign has now switched to a negative, but that means that we have a net cash position. We have also done a share buyback of almost 1.2 billion SEK during the third quarter. The net debt slash net cash in relation to EBITDA was minus 0.1 end of the quarter. Moving on to page 21, return on capital employed. It reached 13% in the quarter, and that was because it was initially impacted by acquisitions with lower returns. That's the reason for the decline in return on capital employed. Going over to page 22, some guidance for the full year. CapEx 1.6, it's an increase from 1.5, and that is due to that we have a good pace on our large projects. will also be in a relatively high capex level in 2024 but then we expect a significant drop in from 2025 so from current level we assume right now that it should be around 500 million lower restructuring costs we are increasing them from 400 to 500 and that is due to the integration of acquisitions and also the measures we are addressing to to address the challenge with the lower demand. Amortization of insalubrious assets, around 500 million, and the underlying tax rate, as I said, 26%. And by that, I would like to hand back the microphone to you, Peter.

Great. Thank you, Fredrik. Again, that slide again, and going over to the summary, and then some comments on Outlook, and then some Q&A. So strong earnings growth in the quarter, flattish organic sales, But sales nevertheless up by 12% in Swedish krona assisted by M&A and currencies. EBITDA also increasing with the same amount, which means that we have a flattish margin year on year, even though, let's say, there's a little bit of sluggish demand in a few areas and also this continued pressure from inflation. So well managed. We are satisfied with this, let's say. is development of course aiming for more we get back on that. Items affecting comparatively slightly higher as Fredrik already addressed due to the fact that we see continued possibilities to improve the structure following the M&A but also in a way to use this a little bit lower demand in order to build a more efficient Trelleborg long term. Very good cash flow which we see also as a very healthy sign that we are delivering this EBIT without building inventory or without allowing our customers to pay later. And on top of that, also, as Fredrik also commented on, we are also investing for the future. I mean, I think we need to be aware we have, let's say, a lot of new capex coming on. Two new plants coming up in Vietnam. We are doubling our capacity in India. Also recently opening a new factory in China for the local Chinese market. We are opening our first factory in Japan. And we are also investing in efficiency and better factories also in Europe and North America. So this is kind of an investment cycle for us in order to create better growth prospects going forward. And we are running at, in a way, more or less all-time high CapEx level. And as Fredrik said, this is a decision that we made in order to build this better platform. will remain high also next year but then as frederick said it will drop dramatically here when we go in to to 26 and beyond also highlight here that we we divested this final piece that we don't really see as a core business and automotive focused factory in Czech Republic was signed and divested yesterday. This is kind of a zero negative profitability operation, which we then are happy to get out and leave to somebody else to develop. Moving on to the next page, talking about the outlook, we do expect the development going forward to be similar as the third quarter I mean we can actually share with you that our order intake in the quarter is very much the same from Q3 and Q3 which is in a way surprising and we do read it into the situation that we are as we commented before we have been hit a little bit with inventory reductions and we see signs of these inventory reductions actually It's a little bit difficult really to know since it's call offs and all that, but we do not see that any drop in the order book anymore. And we are kind of, therefore we are confident in giving this guidance that we will see a similar demand in Q4 as we've seen in Q3. Yes, of course. Also, we know with dissatisfaction that the geopolitical situation is not getting easier. And of course, there's a lot of uncertainty related to these new disasters happening around the world. And we cannot fully disregard that that will have an impact on demand. But that is something that if it happens, then of course, we feel ready to address this and adjust as we always do. I get a high hint here from Kristoffer that I made one mistake of course CapEx will go down in 25 not 26. So that is something I made a mistake by saying 26. It will drop dramatically already in 25. So with that leaving to the agenda and then going over to Q&A on page 27. So please go ahead those of you who are interested in asking some questions and get some more input. So please go ahead.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial star five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial star five again on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Klaas Berglind from Citi. Please go ahead.

Hi, Peter and Frederik. My first question I had was on TEAS and the mix impact from the good development in marine in the smart port concept. This is the second time TEAS is beating expectations by quite a wide margin. And I'm keen to understand, Peter, to what extent the modern improvement is driven by this mix versus underlying self-open price cost. You said slightly driven by mix, but it's pretty good improvement year over year in light of the organic sales being down a bit, if we can start there. Thank you.

We don't see the surprise, and we shouldn't exaggerate this mixed impact. It's simply an underlying basic improvement of industrial solutions which has been seen for the last 10 years. So this is kind of simply, let's say, a continuation of that push. It might be a few tens of percent or half a percentage point or something, which is a mixed impact. But overall, we have improvements more or less all over in this. And I mean, this is a structural... improvement which is happening we are investing in new factories we are investing in a better structure and in a way class i mean i hear this comment but we are not surprised that it's improving and we have been guiding that it will continue to improve it might be a little bit bumpy in between the individual quarters but the long-term direction of half a percentage point or one percentage point improvement on the margin year on year i mean that has been the situation in industrial solutions for the last eight ten years That is, I think, it's not really, it shouldn't be a surprise.

No, it's more reflecting back to the C&D. So you said that the C&D, we have always improved the margin by 50 basis points per year, and we continue to do that. And then I remember I asked a question to you, I said, so is this mix related? And I, at the time, didn't get the impression that it was mix, it was more cost. So that's my fault. Yeah.

That's correct, Klaas. I mean, the mix impact on the annual improvement is not there. But it's more that in this individual quarter, there was a little bit positive impact from the mix. But overall, we don't expect that to kind of remain with this magnitude of improvement year on year. But it will continue to improve year on year, but not maybe with the magnitude that we saw in this individual quarter.

Perfect. My second one is on TSS, and China is down quite a lot, and I think they have a higher margin, so that's weighing a bit on mix, but they should normalize once China comes back. And then we have MRP and the investments you're doing in the front and in the speedboat segments. On MRP, the sales contribution came in below my expectations a bit. Can we talk about trading here, whether the trading in MRP is in line with your expectations or perhaps slightly below? Thank you.

it's basically in line but of course it's getting we we are working with with this integration and it starts to be difficult to to separate exactly mrp performance compared to others and we are kind of transferring internally so basically in line of course there is always something which is good or something which is bad but but overall is basically in line i mean what we do i mean if you say tss where we have a negative surprise, I shouldn't say. But where the negative is in this inventory reduction in some of the core industrial segments, which was for sure, we have been selling less than the underlying demand. If you talk, let's say, the wide fluid power segment, if you may say, which is one of the biggest segments we have within TSS, selling into hydraulic equipment, pneumatic equipment, automation, these kind of products. And that is where we have a far higher drop than the market and a far higher drop than we expected. And that is probably where we were a little bit caught by surprise, where we were a little bit behind on adjusting for this. We were kind of gearing up for a slightly higher demand and suddenly there was a drop of coal loss. And I mean, that is the area where we are surprise is the wrong word. We were a little bit slow in adjusting and that is something we're working at the moment in trying to read the situation. I mean, the underlying order book is still okay. It's still, let's say, the orders we have, but a lot of those orders is call-off orders in a way. We have kind of frame orders, as we call it, for the full year. And there was low call-offs on this in this quarter, which caught us, honestly, with a little bit of surprise. And I mean, if you have, let's say, a few areas here at 10 percentage points or whatever, sales than you expected or where you had in the order book. And that is why our reading of that situation is actually that it is an inventory reduction ongoing and whether that is in anticipation of lower demand for these kind of customers or whether it's simply speculation on lower raw materials or whatever, we don't know. But that is, I mean, it's thousands of customers who is kind of all of them, and not all of them, but let's say several of them buying less than they kind of indicated in the beginning of the year. And that hurt us in Q2 and it continues to hurt us a little bit in Q3. And we cannot really see that once again in the underlying end market demand. So that is really the disappointment, if I may say, within Sealing Solutions. still very good development in medical healthcare. Good. I mean, in aerospace, we still have a very solid demand and we don't really, cannot really catch up with underlying demand. And we also see now a bounce back a little bit, which has been a bit slow for a few quarters on the, let's say, electrification and semiconductor business. But we see now some battery business coming in. There's been a lot of expectations on this area, but I mean, it's a little bit slow in actual demand. actual orders but we do see that this coming now and we see an improvement so so we are overall let's say positive on ceiling solutions while this kind of what we read as inventory reduction has in a way somewhat caught up with the surprise and we're not really ready for that so we have been hit a little bit in the quarter but under absorption in some of our manufacturing units as we did not want to build inventory. Of course, we could have been running it and building inventory, but we decided to cut the volumes instead of building inventory, which I think you can see on the cash flow was very well managed, although it is somewhat like with Amon. Long explanation, but I mean, I wanted to share what we see.

Yeah, very good. Very quick final one on construction on teeth, looking at Europe versus North America. Am I correct to assume that Europe is sort of bottoming year over year, right? If he's facing an easier comp and that incremental weakness is more in North America?

Correct. But nevertheless, we don't see really continued going down in North America either. So we do expect it to be flattish in a way. But of course, with a substantially lower level than the old good days, if I may say that. But at least it's flattening out. And we have been adjusting there. So there we've been... A little bit different compared to what we did anticipate that and we have been kind of able to flex that course. So that is not hitting us on the margin as much as we may be losing a little bit on the margin in ceiling solutions. So that is something which has been well managed by our guys in that unit adapting to this level at the moment. Thank you.

The next question comes from Eric Gorang from SEB. Please go ahead.

Thank you. I have two questions, and the first one is probably going to repeat a lot of what you said, but I didn't get all of the demand and destocking comments flew over my head. So if you could just zoom out a bit, Q1, Q2, Q3, how has demand, i.e. orders for you, developed, and what's been the destocking part of that? Just big picture.

Orders dropping from Q1 to Q2, then flatties from Q2 to Q3. So we don't really see a difference in order intake between Q2 and Q3, if you look at the overall level. There were some fewer call-offs. I mean, you do a frame order, you get the orders, and then the customers kind of said, I want to pick this up, and then they order. And that is something which has been causally surprising Q2. some destocking, and then we have also, we expect continued destocking in Q3, which is for this, let's say, give or take one third of ceiling solutions where it's kind of exposed to this kind of market. And I mean, Eric, honestly, it's difficult for us to judge, but of course, it's a few percentage points on total sales of ceiling solutions, which we are talking about. I mean, the order is there. but the customers is not really do the call-offs and for sure it's been down a lot more than the underlying markets and that is where we are a little bit openly i mean sometimes even though you have all the facts and you have everything it's difficult really to do a firm analysis and get back to to the figures we are maybe a few months too late adjusting a little bit for lower demands but that is the way is sometimes and we feel confident that we will be able to manage this and we'll be able to adjust it might take another quarter or something to get it fully fully back on track but we are addressing it and then we are once again i mean as soon as i surprise is the wrong word we do expect it to be slightly better and then we based on the order intake and based on let's say uh previous experience on orders linked to actual deliveries. So I don't know, Fredrik, if you want to add something. It's okay, Erik, otherwise I'm happy to elaborate further on this.

Stop now, otherwise I'll be confused again. On the second question on the M&A market, obviously you have pretty big ambitions there and you have a balance sheet that you can deploy. What's the... I mean, we're getting increasing comments that private price expectations are coming down as... as the stock market is, should we expect more activity as a result of that, or what's the situation?

We have been focusing on this quite some time, and we have, of course, something in the pipeline. I mean, it is a little bit softer market, as you say, so expectations are going down, and then it's a matter to get the deals done and to make it. So we are working, as I said, definitely not on something which is similar in size to Minnesota, but we have a few few, let's say, interesting prospects in the pipeline. And as you said before, focus for us, medical and healthcare, electronic semiconductors, aerospace, and then also some smaller bolt-ons potentially in industrial solutions, which is further strengthening the already strong positions there. So this is the focus and we are working, we have ongoing discussions, but you never know exactly if or when they will end.

And how much would you be willing, where we stand today, how much would you be willing to spend today on M&A without reducing the buyback pace of around call it a billion per quarter?

I mean we can probably spend a billion or million euros or something like that without kind of impacting us if you look a little bit in a few quarters. I mean cash flow is strong so I mean at the moment we are basically financing the cash back with operating cash flow. So we don't really see, even if we spend for a billion euros, we don't see any kind of impact, even higher, Fredrik.

I would say it's even higher. I mean, if possible or needed, we can go up to a one and a half time and even closer to two for a short period if we find the right targets. But I think based on the size Peter are talking about, we are not close to that kind of leverage.

I mean, also to clarify, we have nothing like that in the pipeline. So don't expect that to happen in the next month or so. Thank you.

The next question comes from Olof Larshammer from Danske Bank. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Two questions from my side. Firstly, on China, we have heard from some other companies that have reported that they have seen somewhat of an improvement in demand in September. It would be interesting to hear your comments on that as well. And then secondly, organic growth minus 1%, what was price in the quarter? And, you know, if I look historically and, you know, taking away financial crisis and COVID, it feels like that, you know, let's say a normal industrial slowdown, you know, ceiling is down three, four, five, six, you know, percent. So maybe we're, you know, close to that in terms of, you know, volume development as of now. But any caller would be interesting. Thank you.

The China situation is definitely flattening. I don't say it's improving really at the moment, but we do see it's not going down anymore. We kind of expect, let's say, that it will improve going forward, but we cannot really see it in the order books yet to be fully transparent. But for sure, it's not going down anymore. So that's, I think, what you can say about China. Pricing volume, Fredrik, is for you.

I mean, we have said before, as we have said before, it's less and less impact from pricing. Of course, there was much more impact from pricing in both Q1 and Q2 due to the rollover effect. I will say it's a minor impact in the third quarter.

And then also about this structural growth for the previous comments on growth in senior solutions, we have changed the the kind of overall profile of ceiling quite a lot if you compare to pre-COVID. I mean, we have far more medical healthcare, we have far more aerospace based on medical, of course, linked to a few acquisitions, while aerospace is kind of growing primarily. Of course, we have done some smaller, very big acquisitions, one outside of Seattle and one in Germany, but overall, I mean, the growth in aerospace has been from organics, so the overall profile is of seeding solution is getting less and less exposed to this kind of structure. We still have this with the comments that are already fluid power, which goes into construction equipment, hand tools, and this kind of stuff, agriculture, which is kind of more cyclical. But I mean, seeding solutions is moving to become a far less cyclical business than it was a few years ago. And that's, of course, something we would like to continue once again to hopefully make some both organic investment but hopefully also an M&A who is strengthening us in electronics and semiconductors and of course hopefully we'll continue to invest both to create which we already commented on we are investing a lot in people to continue to grow aerospace and medical good organically and hopefully we can supplement that also with some smaller acquisitions down the line which overall will create a much more stable and solid ceiling solutions. And on top of that, of course, we still have this very high on the priority list with regards to ceiling to get MRP or Minnesota rubber, let's say, to get to the same margin level as we had before on ceiling solutions. So that's, I think, some comments on that.

Yeah. Thank you very much.

The next question comes from Timothy Lee from Barclays. Please go ahead.

Hi, thanks for taking my questions. I have two questions. So first of all, regarding your outlook statement for the fourth quarter, I just want to have a little bit more elaboration from your side regarding the statement which seems to be somewhat stabilized in the fourth quarter compared to the third quarter. Can you elaborate a little bit more on this? Are you seeing the overall macro or demand is not deteriorating further, such that the volume will not drop anymore and there will be less destocking activities from your customer side? Or is it due to the company-specific factors like better mix to compensate those macro headwinds? That's the first question. And second, on your EBITDA margin, Can you elaborate a bit further in the fourth quarter developments? That means for the industrial segment, will it be further benefited by the mixed improvement? And for ceiling solution, will it be further impacted by more high wind activities? That's my question. Thank you.

Okay, talk about the orders, Tim. I mean, the order intake is flattish for us. We have been, as I said before, we read this that we have been hurt The last few quarters, once again, we get back to these inventory reductions, especially on ceiling solutions, but also partly on industrial solutions. And also industrial solutions has, on top of these inventory reductions, we've been, of course, hurt by this severe downturn in residential construction. So overall, we feel that this has been down to a level where it's going to remain. And that is why we feel confident in telling that we see a stable demand quarter to quarter. we don't really see any improvements quarter-on-quarter, but at least we see a stability and we don't expect it to, from our point of view, deteriorate any further, once again coming from residential construction flattening and from less impact from inventory reductions. So that is something which then ends up for us making this comment. Fourth quarter margins. I mean, we don't really want to elaborate. I don't know if you want to say anything about that, Fredrik. I mean, I think we have to keep our guidance on the level where we have it. Yeah, sorry to being the boring guy here.

I mean, I think we need to think and reflect upon that we have some normal seasonalities. So you have to think about that.

More than that, I think we cannot guide them more than we have done on the demand side. Sorry for that, but we don't want to give any details on that one.

No problem. Thank you so much. That's helpful.

Thank you. As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial star 5 on your telephone keypad. There are no more questions at this time. so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Thank you, and thanks to all of you for listening in. As we are exiting, we believe, a solid quarter. We see demand for us flattening out. We see sales flattening out. We do not see any deterioration here, at least not for Q4, and then who knows what's beyond that. So we feel confident. We have been adjusting our costs. We continue to adjust our cost level to this let's say, less, let's say, flattish growth. So we continue to invest both in our structure, we continue to invest in creating a better growth platform going forward. So we are continuing to build a better and more solid Trelleborg with less kind of cyclical exposure and more solid overall growth going forward. So... Happy to catch up with each of you and give you more flavor on this development. And of course, as usual, if there is any follow-up questions today or tomorrow or anything beyond that, also Christopher is here to support you. So please reach out to Christopher if you want some more flavor of any of the topics that we discussed today. So thanks again and do take care and see you soon.